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Getting Out : Seeking Justice

Vandari on Safari

from Jules - Friday, October 11, 2002
accessed 52174 times

What Maria and Peter have to say about us and this web site.

(Added October 16, 2002: The full text of this publication can be found here: http://www.movingon.org/documents/prayobeyandprepare.rtf )

I recently received some very bizarre and disturbing material from a Family publication called Pray, Obey and Prepare, written by Maria and Peter (CM 3420, September, 2002).

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130. It has recently been brought to our attention by some of our faithful media folks that the postings on various ex-member sites are becoming increasingly aggressive and belligerent. There are a number of detractors who are trying to rally those who have left--even those who have been friendly for years--to unite to fight the Family. They're talking about trying to hinder our work through such things as class action lawsuits, requests for law enforcement investigations, personal lawsuits against individuals, criminal complaints, use of the media, production of their stories through documentaries, books, and writings, etc.
131. They're trying to round up as many alleged “abuse” stories as possible to provide investigators with some kind of “ammunition” to justify taking action against us. They're trying to draw the attention of the authorities to the education methods of the Family, attempting to convince them that our children's education is insufficient. They're supposedly trying to find out the locations of our Family Homes. They're trying to unite, pool their energies and resources, to bring the Family down.
132. There is increased activity against us, and it's not just people telling stories. These apostates and detractors are egging each other on. They're trying to influence authorities against the Family, and they're trying to launch an offensive.
133. We need to desperately pray! As was brought out before, how much we pray and how desperate we are to beseech the Lord's help and that of our spirit helpers will determine how much we'll be able to minimize these attacks, or avoid them altogether. As Dad said earlier, “What our enemies are not fully counting on is the Family's ability to rally to the need and to amass a force of prayer, calling on the power of some very potent and commanding keys.” We have the keys, they don't! But we must wield them, and we must do so as effectively as possible.
134. Now, understanding that, it's pretty obvious why the Lord would reveal the following at this time:

The Vandari
135. (Vision:) I saw a clean-cut, handsome-looking man, around his early 30s. He looked like a nice guy, well-groomed, together, confident and on top of things. Then all of a sudden he morphed right in front of me into the most grotesque creature! He turned blood red from head to toe, starting from his head down. His clothes were no longer defined once he morphed‚ but rather it looked like he was covered in some type of blood-red cloak that was clinging to his body--it was like a hood over his head, and it covered him like a long cape all the way down to his feet.
136. His eyes look very bloodshot. His red cloak looks somewhat like the traditional cartoon picture you see of a ghost--the typical ghost covered in a sheet-–only this covering is clinging to him and it's blood red. The horrible thing about it is that he seems to be dripping all over with blood. It looks like he's just come up out of a swimming pool or some body of water, like the ocean, and he's dripping wet. Only the outstanding and yucky thing about this is he seems to be dripping not water, but blood--from his eyes, his nose, his lips, his arms, his hands.
137. It's totally grotesque, and if I didn't know the Lord is protecting me, it would be downright frightening. It's horrible, disgusting! One minute he's this handsome-looking fellow, then he's this horrible, red, dripping creature. Then there were rats, of all things-–horrible, big, filthy rats running all around!
138. Now I see a big crowd of people. It's a public place, like a crowded city street, but among the crowds, I zero in on different people. I'm not able to pick or choose where I want to look; it's like I'm being led by a spirit helper to zero in on specific people in the crowd. And as I look at certain ones, they are morphing into these same ugly-looking creatures.
139. I see a woman, about 20, fairly normal looking, not outstandingly gorgeous or anything, but my first impression was that she was sweet looking. And all of a sudden she morphs into the same red-dripping creature‚ a blood-red dripping monster! I see a teen boy, about 16 years old, who looks like your average high school student, and he morphs into the same horrible red creature too! Now I see an elderly couple, a man and woman, white-haired, about in their mid-70s, and they morph into the same thing.
140. It's horrible--they look terrible! For a few minutes I feel like I am going to get sick. But I have amazing peace, because I know they can't touch me. I know I'm protected and I feel very peaceful. There seems to be a sober warning, though, about these creatures. It's not a light matter, but at the same time, I know if I claim the keys and if I'm obeying the Lord, they can't do a thing to me. (End of vision.)

141. (Jesus speaking:) As I have revealed to you before, the emissaries of Satan can often take on many forms. You see them disguised as the innocent, the inviting‚ the average member of society, and I show you that all that meets the eye is not as it appears. I show you what lies beneath, that you might walk circumspectly, that you might continue to raise your guards and walk in vigilance in these dark days. I reveal this to you, My friends, My brides and lovers, so you can watch and pray and not be ignorant of the Devil's devices, so that you will not enter into temptation as those in the world.
142. These repulsive, blood–red creatures you see transformed before your eyes are the Vandari, agents of the netherworld, who infiltrate the world population in the Last Days. (Note: Phonetically this is pronounced Van-DAR-ee, with the accent on the second syllable.) Look at the significance of the Vandari name in your human language. The “van” is derived from the word “vandals,” the “dar” from the word “dark,” the “i” spelling of the last syllable signifies “I,” denoting self or selfishness.
143. The Vandari are out to destroy. They are out to suck the very life out of the living. These seek to snuff out both the physical as well as the spiritual lives of those who are not protected by My Spirit. They are hitchhikers who work through many vehicles--those who are ignorant of the truth‚ darkened in their understanding.
144. The Vandari latch on to their prey and seek to use them to oppose My truth. Be aware, My children. Be wise, not ignorant of the Enemy's devices. Walk in vigilance. I don't care to give undue importance to the dark workings of Lucifer, yet I am a true Husband Who warns His brides of danger so you can avoid it.
145. The Vandari are let loose upon the Earth. Their mission is to recruit those who will bow down and worship the son of perdition in the appointed day. Likewise, they seek to oppose My truth. Walk in wisdom toward all who are without, for the world is full of demons, sorcerers, and every foul bird.
146. You've seen rats, because these cohabitate with the Vandari. The Vandari populate and dwell in the sewer systems of the world, a fitting place in the physical world for such creatures. In the netherworld, they belong to some of the lowest strata and levels of the spirit world, where they dwell with the dregs of the spirit. They dwell in the darkness in these stinking tunnels and putrid bodies of water‚ where they seep up to the cities and civilizations of man above to do their dirty work.


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What is very surprising (though perhaps we should know better by now) is that Zerby and Peter have taken the route of calling us rats and demons rather than paying any attention to what it is we are actually saying.

Claire Borowitz, as an official representative of the Family, posted these comments on this web site on July 12, 2002.

“As you’re very aware from our former correspondence, we respect the right of former members to express their feelings and opinions and debate and discuss issues on forums such as your web site. Our sincere wish for those who were once part of the Family is that they can lead constructive, fulfilling lives and “move on” to whatever new goals they set for themselves once they decide they no longer wish to make serving the Lord with the Family their lifetime career. … we continue to pray for reconciliation and mutual respect in the path that each one has chosen of their own free will.
I believe you have made an admirable effort through your site to assist former members in the process of “moving on” to more constructive models for their lives. There has been a real endeavor to bring about a balanced approach, and I believe, a sincere desire to represent the truth, eschewing the distortions, embellishments and falsehoods that some have regrettably resorted to.“ ( http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=9&ID=526"> http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=9&ID=526 )

I have received a handful of personal emails from Claire over the last year or so, and in them she has said repeatedly that she, and the Family, value open dialogue with the children of members and support my specific efforts with this web site. Perhaps I was extremely naïve, but it seemed to indicate that the Family was willing to at least listen to what we were saying and respect our experiences and opinions. I gave Claire an open invitation for her or another representative for the Family to communicate with us, and to open a public dialogue, which she initially accepted. ( http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=9&ID=390 )

My motivation for this web site was to provide a place for us to communicate. I really didn’t have any other plan in mind. However, as we have begun to discuss and document our experiences here, there are some very clear patterns emerging. I knew that these things had happened to me, but what I did not realize was how widespread these things were, and the extent to which many things were covered up. Daniel Albatross has outlined these very clearly in his article “The Case Against the Family” ( http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=31&ID=831 ).

The issues, boiled down are:


  • As children, many of us were exploited, our basic human rights were violated and many of us were subjected to brutal abuse.


  • No accountability has ever been laid on the abusers.


  • Many of us have emerged in society severely disadvantaged, as a direct result of the violations of our rights.

    There is definite concrete action that we, as young adults raised in the Family, can take to empower ourselves and to address these three issues. It was my hope that the Family leadership would support our efforts in these areas. Given the tragic stories and violent ends of many of the throwaway children of the family, isn’t it better that we work together towards identifying the abuse and healing from it, protecting our younger brothers and sisters still in the Family by holding abusers accountable, and supporting each other to get on our feet and make a smooth transition?

    Instead, this is what Maria and Peter are saying to Family members about what we are trying to say:

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    14. If you and those in your Home have made commitments to not read the accusations of our detractors and apostates, and to not go on the ex-member Web sites, Peter and I commend you. That's the best thing to do. It's unwise to deliberately and willfully pollute your mind and spirit with attacks on the Word and your faith. But even if you are steering completely clear of the verbal attacks of our apostates, you still need to be prepared for eventual persecution, and the way to prepare is to strengthen your faith through diligent study of the Word.
    15. If you have read the writings of our detractors, please get cleansed! As I said recently on video, our detractors can get pretty convincing sometimes, especially some who have lived with us, and when they leave and get bitter and filled with hate, they come up with all sorts of stories. They exaggerate or twist the truth, distort it by telling only one side of a situation, or rewrite history based on some of the strong delusion they've received since they've rejected the truth, going so far as to believe a lie and tell lies (2Thes.2:10-11).
    16. I know for our Family, it's hard for us to believe that someone would get to this state, distorting, exaggerating, and sometimes even deliberately lying about things. We're taught to be honest. That's one of our personal goals--to be honest with each other and with the Lord. So when folks who have been with us leave and you hear them tell some pretty outrageous stories, you may find it hard to believe that they could possibly be making these things up. But they often do.
    17. Now, whenever the Enemy lies, he always weaves some truth in. If he just slapped together some lie, you wouldn't believe it. He has to weave some truth in. And he weaves it very skillfully and very cleverly‚ so that it really plays on your sense of right and wrong, and makes it sound very bad. You think, “How could they be telling such a huge lie if it weren't true?”
    18. So that's one thing we want to warn you about when you hear these tales, which are out there--and maybe some of you have already heard and read some of them. I wouldn't advise you to go looking for them, but if for some reason you have to hear these things or you've already heard them, then please listen to what we're saying.
    19. Please don't swallow these things that some of our detractors are saying. It'll hurt your faith. It'll cause you to have doubts. It'll hinder your work for the Lord and others. You have to get cleansed of these things through going to the Lord and hearing His Word, even personally. There are a lot of answers already published on many‚ if not all, of the topics our detractors harp on, and you should go back and read the pubs, but also go to the Lord personally and ask Him about them.


    *********************************************************

    What is really confusing though in all of this is that not only have Maria and Peter missed the point of what we are saying, they seem to be deliberately misleading their flock.

    No one is looking to make anyone innocent suffer. Some of us wrote some suggestions a few months ago, which was sent to Peter by a young Cmer, with ideas for how they could help address our concerns themselves internally. If they could at least look at these things themselves, it would be a huge step in the right direction. I don’t think the young man heard back from Peter on this (or if he did, he couldn’t let me know).

    Instead, they say:

    “30. The Family seems to be the forerunner in suffering persecution, because we're out front and we're really getting the job done and the Enemy is angry with us”
    “62. (Dad Speaking:) The Evil One is trying to bring together those who have left the Family. He's trying to unite them and use their lies and misconceptions; he's trying to get them to fight together. He knows that alone, each individual lacks the strength and ability to have an effect or to make an inroad into the Family. He knows he also has to bring about some sort of cohesion in the Family's detractors to make the lie look big enough to cause concerns among the authorities. This is not easy to do, and their alliance is weak. But he will be marginally successful, for there are enough with enough bitterness in their hearts to believe in the “righteousness” of their lie, and be drawn by the possibilities of recognition and support.”


    It is nothing to do with "getting the job done". The issues are the unconfessed sins that the Family as an organization seems to only be interested in covering up. The issues are the past crimes which the guilty have never been held accountable for. How can the Family move on to become established, as they so desperately wish to be, with these sins and secrets hanging around their necks? There are so many places they can’t go, things they can’t hear, and questions they can’t ask. If there is really nothing to hide, why is that? Truth should speak for itself and stand on it’s own.

    Many of our parents and siblings in the Family understand what we are saying, and agree that the Family should come clean once and for all, both cleanse their ranks of the abusers and help to put them away, and only then can they truly move on and “forget the past”. It seems as though this is unacceptable to Peter and Maria, who are calling on our friends and family to pray against us, and for God literally to take us out:

    ***************************************************
    How Do We Pray Against Former Loved Ones Who Are Fighting Us?
    39. (Peter:) Amen! As Mama said, and as you'll see in the prophecies that we'll read, the Lord talks a lot about the need for us to pray against these attacks, to pray against those who are seeking to hurt or destroy the Family. But often it's hard to know how to pray against certain people, because sometimes these people are your friends or your children or your parents, and it's really difficult for you to think, “Well, I've got to pray that the Lord will curse them” and that sort of thing. That's been a bother for some people, and understandably so. It's a dilemma to know how to pray the most effective prayers in situations when you're having to pray against people who were once Family members and who are now detractors or apostates who are out to do us serious damage.
    41. We asked the Lord how we should pray against those who are fighting against us, and He gave the following instruction:
    45. (Jesus Speaking:) I will have mercy, for they are Mine‚ but in some cases mercy would be to take them out of the way before they can hurt others even more. For the further they go in their lies and deceptions, the longer and harder the road of humility back to Me becomes, and the more they will have to repent of and make restitution for--whether here or in the next life. So your prayers for My intervention are mercy to them. The sooner they realize what they're doing and repent, the less they will have to undo.
    54. The point is, you don't have to pray against those you love with damning prayers, asking Me to curse them as individuals, but you do have to pray against the Enemy's attacks through them, and the damage he wants to do to the work. You should commit them to My strong and loving hands to do whatever I know is needed to humble them, to show them the error of their ways, or else to take them out of the way so that I can save them from themselves before they do more damage. Either way, I will have mercy; I will do what I know is best. But you must pray. (End of message from Jesus.)


    ***************************************************************

    What is really sad is that Maria and Peter are actually threatening people in the group with what we will do to them if they don’t obey:

    ***************************************************************

    “91. (Jesus Speaking:) The accusations brought against you by these new apostates will stir up action against you. But how much and how widespread, how effective those actions are against you depends on several factors:
    * How much you pray.
    * How much the Family takes action to obey and follow closely.
    * How much you are doing the job to get out the witness and meat of the Word, so that I don't have to allow persecution to do it for you.
    92. The Family needs to know that persecution is coming. Persecution is inevitable. But woe to those who bring on persecution because of their disobedience, lack of conviction, lack of change, lack of witness, and lack of doing the job and living as My disciples. It will be much harder for them, for they will not have My full blessing and anointing.
    98. However, there are pockets of resistance to the truth and the direction I am leading. There are some who are still rebellious, disobedient, shallow, compromised, and without the fear of Me. And because there has been so much truth published over the last year, I must hold these wayward ones more accountable. They are in essence challenging Me, testing Me, like a child might test his parents. They think nothing will come of their rebelliousness‚ that all things will continue as they are. They are simply biding their time, mostly here for the lifestyle, without regard for the judgments that will come.
    99. Because they have not made decisions to either get right with Me or to move on, and because it's impossible for the shepherds to be “policing” the flocks, I will shepherd these wayward ones Myself. That's when the painful persecution will come into the picture.
    100. There will be varying degrees of suffering when persecution hits. Some will experience persecution because of their disobediences. Some who have been obedient for the most part will suffer because they weren't their brother's keeper, because they turned a blind eye to the sins of others and didn't stand up for the truth. And yet others will suffer indirectly, because you are all one Family, you are all connected, and when hurt, pain and persecution touches a part of you, it affects the whole body.
    101. The degree of suffering will depend largely on each one's level of obedience to Me, but all can come out stronger if they will allow Me to strengthen them through it. Those who choose to stand by My side, who take up the challenge, will be strengthened through persecution. Each one can be bettered through it, but how easy or how difficult it will be for you, and the degree of suffering I will allow to touch your life, depends largely on your level of obedience.”


    ****************************************************

    This seems too deliberate to be just a misunderstanding. What we are asking for is that the guilty be held accountable, not the innocent. The innocent have suffered too much already. No one wants to see children hurt, taken from safe loving parents, or traumatized in anyway. We have asked for the specific individuals who were directly responsible for abuse to be held accountable. For Maria and Peter to put this on the shoulders of the average member is really wrong.

    We are speaking these things in the open and in this public forum. There is no hidden agenda at play here. There are no anti-cult groups, or even older ex-members, it’s just us, their own children, wanting to take a stand. We have lives, careers, and have moved on. These issues are often painful, personal and difficult to address. Those of us who wish to do something concrete about them do so because we feel a moral compulsion to do the right thing and tell the truth. We’re just tired of the lies, and cover-ups, tired of the rhetoric and manipulation. If there is nothing to hide, then why are they afraid? It really doesn’t take a revelation or a prophecy to know that we are speaking out. It’s all over this public site.

    It would be easier if things had taken a different turn than this, and if, when presented with the facts of how abuse in the Family had affected us, the leadership would want to do what it could to prosecute the perpetrators, and support us during our transition. It seems this will never be the case, and we are left with no other choice but to “do it the hard way”. If it comes to that, then I for one am willing to do what it takes to see those who are guilty brought to justice.

    “These ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone” (Lu 11:42)
    “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel” (1Ti 5:8)
    “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” (Mt. 18:6)
    "He that covereth his sin shall not prosper" (Pro. 28:13)
    “For there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed; neither hid that shall not be known” (Luk. 12:2)
  • Reader's comments on this article

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    from Some other kind of vandari
    Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:23

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    http://www.sasnet.lu.se/tribalchellap.pdf
    (reply to this comment)
    From AndyH
    Wednesday, January 11, 2006, 12:32

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    Coincidence or (reply to this comment

    From AndyH
    Wednesday, January 11, 2006, 12:32

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    Coincidence (reply to this comment

    From AndyH
    Wednesday, January 11, 2006, 12:32

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    Oh (reply to this comment

    From AndyH
    Wednesday, January 11, 2006, 12:31

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    THe (reply to this comment

    from Otter
    Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 04:46

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
    If anything I think Zerby's subconscious is burdened by guilt. Her own mind is showing her what she is doing to innocent people through her perverted & sickening doctrines. When will she wake up & see the reward that her "lord" has in store for her. I guess what she saw was nothing more than where she is going. Straight to hell.
    (reply to this comment)
    from Maz
    Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 01:04

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    I'm not sure which is worse; Mama Maria's ego or her imagination! A wonderfully easy to predict vision, like so many before, & the constant personal attention from Jesus who, apparently, values her very highly for some unfathomable reason. But I'm sure the answer to this will come to her in another vision soon:

    "Dear Mama Maria or Queen Maria or Karen Zerby,

    There are a number of very helpful people in the world who would love to get their psychiatrist hands on the maniac brain you possess to look for the answers to UFO's/telekinesis/telepathy/prophecy & all of the other bullshit "No-I-swear-to-God-it-happened" phenomenon that infest self-obsessed, insecure, paranoid people like you. Were you ever a normal person or was this the way the true God made you as a misinterpreted warning to mankind?

    Yours sincerely,

    Marianne"
    (reply to this comment)

    from Amy1974
    Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 22:51

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    Vandari....

    I think Zerby got drunk, watched a few sci-fi flicks and thought Jesus was speaking again.
    (reply to this comment)

    from Toothache
    Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 17:24

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Makes about as much sense as US president G.Bush's explanation for why certain people hate the US.
    (reply to this comment)
    from Ralph Crayon
    Friday, November 19, 2004 - 18:05

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    “…bring about some sort of cohesion in the Family's detractors to make the lie look big enough to cause concerns among the authorities”

    Its all a big lie, all of the exmemebers are lying, lies, lies, lies they can't stop lying, so many lies, completely unfounded vicious lies, lies about the past, lies about everything, even lies about lies themselves, lies about Dad, lies about Maria, lies about the Davidito book, lies about incest, lies about Mene, lies about the victor programs, lies about the world wide child abuse investigations, lies about the letters, lies about the (original) kiddie viddies, lies about child porn, lies about the end of the world, its all lies............................................
    “For the further they go in their lies and deceptions, the longer and harder the road of humility back to Me becomes, and the more they will have to repent of and make restitution for--whether here or in the next life….The sooner they realize what they're doing and repent, the less they will have to undo”

    (reply to this comment)

    From Cristina
    Saturday, November 26, 2005, 06:57

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I`m glad to know that there are still people who've left and have'nt gotten into the rutine of the normal backsliders. nice comment. you are right. They are all bitter lies of people who couldn't face the fact of not making it in the family. It's not for all but we should ruin it because there are people who are happy and it's what they want.(reply to this comment
    From Shaka
    Saturday, November 26, 2005, 19:01

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    You better either be exceptionally hot or have a personality to die for, cause when it comes to brains you're shit outta luck. Can you say it with me? STOOOOPID!!(reply to this comment
    From
    Saturday, November 26, 2005, 07:49

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    If making it in the family is 'right' I wanna be wrong!

    (reply to this comment
    From vixen
    Saturday, November 26, 2005, 07:06

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Ahhhhh-hahahahahahahaha!!! Let me tell you, dear, I believe you *totally* missed the point of the comment you replied to. And furthermore, you're simply regurgitating a bunch of nonsensical rubbish! But hey, I'll happily let you stew in your delusion. Peace!(reply to this comment
    from Meathead
    Friday, October 01, 2004 - 01:51

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    135. (Vision:) I saw a clean-cut, handsome-looking man, around his early 30s. He looked like a nice guy, well-groomed, together, confident and on top of things. Then all of a sudden he morphed right in front of me into the most grotesque creature! He turned blood red from head to toe, starting from his head down. His clothes were no longer defined once he morphed‚ but rather it looked like he was covered in some type of blood-red cloak that was clinging to his body--it was like a hood over his head, and it covered him like a long cape all the way down to his feet.
    136. His eyes look very bloodshot. His red cloak looks somewhat like the traditional cartoon picture you see of a ghost--the typical ghost covered in a sheet-–only this covering is clinging to him and it's blood red. The horrible thing about it is that he seems to be dripping all over with blood. It looks like he's just come up out of a swimming pool or some body of water, like the ocean, and he's dripping wet. Only the outstanding and yucky thing about this is he seems to be dripping not water, but blood--from his eyes, his nose, his lips, his arms, his hands.
    137. It's totally grotesque, and if I didn't know the Lord is protecting me, it would be downright frightening. It's horrible, disgusting! One minute he's this handsome-looking fellow, then he's this horrible, red, dripping creature


    uh oh i think someone has seen my bad side. ha didn't mean to let that happen. now everyone is labled as that. sorry everyone. :-).


    now how obvious is that they (TF) want to paint us as sum blood sucking demon that everyone needs to be scared of.
    (reply to this comment)

    from Shaka
    Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 23:44

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    Letter to "Mama and "Peter".

    So now we're blood dripping monsters, huh? No, we're something much more dangerous. We're those kids that were underestimated from day one. We're the quivering, tortured, innocent little kids who put up with your abuse for as long as we can remember. We're the ones with crushed hopes and broken dreams. We're the ones who have lost faith in people. But something happened to us little kids that you didn't seem to plan for. We grew up. We learned to hate. Not hate for people we were told to hate because they stood up against you. We learned to hate and loath you. What didn't kill us has made us stronger. Now you have a new batch of enemies that is much more dangerous than any you may have had before. Because we've been on the recieving end for years and guess what. It's your turn. You've started a fire you can't put out. And all your lies, excuses, half-hearted apologies, and evasions won't save you this time. We're coming for you and we won't rest until you pay for your years of playing god with people's lives.

    Zerby, you insane whore, we want you behind bars where you can't hurt anyone anymore. Peter, you cowradly fuck, be prepared to be lying on a metal cot, encased in the arms of a diseased, 300 pound inmate whispering sweet nothings into your ear. The things you've done aren't just horrible, they're criminal. You've danced to the music long enough and it's time to pay the fiddler. We're young and strong and we can go the distance. Can you? I don't think so. Our only regret is that Berg is dead and we can't kill him ourselves. We'll just have to console ourselves with the knowledge that he's now Satan's bitch. There's not a level of Hell low enough for all of you. You'll probably be given a shovel and told to start digging a lower one. So see you at the big games, baby! This war's about to start and there can be only one winner. Just pray you die before we catch up to you. So long for now.

    Your Children
    (reply to this comment)

    From luci-fa
    Thursday, April 26, 2007, 15:43

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)

    I dont want no 80 year old fuck job stuck in my crib ..I got class brutha!!.. ill try n work out sumthin with the place down the road for old pervy demented washed up loosers AKA:heaven... heard jeebus has hit some financial problems so he's taken up pimpin himself for the inmates...hope berg fancies bondage cuz jeebus likes to tie em up for a long ass time!(reply to this comment

    From jack_wyn
    Wednesday, May 25, 2005, 00:37

    Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    go fuck yourself(reply to this comment

    From jack_wyn
    Wednesday, May 25, 2005, 00:37

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    go fuck yourself(reply to this comment

    from no
    Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 00:33

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    ANY MEMBERS THAT ARE CURENTLY IN THE FAMILY READ THIS:

    I am Chris, the son of "Seek and Servant" (Charles and Kay). First I want to say that I don't hate the Family for the physical abuse, sexual abuse, brainwashing, lack of education and mental trauma I was put through as a kid. I am able to benefit from my experiences and knowledge in the cult, I give all the credit to my parents who loved and supported me in or out of the Family, none to the Family, who if it weren’t for my parents I'd have a sixth grade education.

    I am not one of those losers that say that the Family wrecked their life, and sit around doing drugs and complaining about how #$*# lame the Family is. I realize that I will have to work harder than the next man to accomplish my goals. But I am willing to do it.

    But to those that are still in the Family and have an itch in the back of their brain that something is not right. You don't have to be in the Family having someone else telling you how to serve God to lead a Christian life. I think your relationship with God should be personal; you shouldn't have to read literature from so-called "prophets" (Matthew 24:23) that continually contradict themselves.

    I have found a new relationship with God since I left the Family, one that far surpasses the way I looked at God when I was in the Family. I am currently taking Bible courses Online and plan to go to a Bible school where I can develop my own views on God, then I plan to give my life to Him wherever and however He chooses to use me to his fullest.

    I know this seems pointless, and I don't know if there is a point, but I guess I am trying to say that there is still hope. Just because you wasted the last 20 years of your life it doesn't mean that you have to waste another 20.

    Read the book: "The Dream Giver", (I think it's by Bruce Wilkinson?) it really helped me out.
    (reply to this comment)

    From true
    Wednesday, June 15, 2005, 22:53

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    there is no god so you just as stupid as the people in the family and maria and peter are evil and need to die(reply to this comment
    From Kayte
    Friday, November 19, 2004, 16:50

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    Hi Chris. I find your article very interesting. I think it would be helpful to lots of SG still in TF who aren't willing to give up thier faith in God, or that feel that their parents honestly did their best for them. I agree with you that some parents in TF really want what is best for their children. Of course, they are not able to give it to them because of their original choice to be in TF. Another thing I found very interesting about your article is that you say you plan to serve God to your best ability. Zerby has a cliche going around that no one has ever left TF to serve the Lord, meaning that everyone who leaves TF is a selfish narcissist. If do you go to Bible College and graduate, I think you should let it be known that you are serving God out of TF. Best wishes.(reply to this comment

    from nat
    Monday, January 05, 2004 - 13:33

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    whoever wrote that vandari shit should start writing grindcore lyrics...holy satan...theres blood on my keyboard!!!...
    (reply to this comment)
    From Sonderval
    Wednesday, January 07, 2004, 01:47

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    LOL

    well said, there's a real untapped resource there, perhaps if they knew they had an occupation they'd fit into they'd be less scared of the outside world, someone should tell em. :D(reply to this comment

    from tudaisy
    Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 22:30

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    this is my first time being on this web site, I had known about it for some time but I wasn't overly egar to bring up painful past childhood memories, or discuss how much shit was fed to us!

    I remember the family being kind of loopy, but holly shit, thay have completly lost it, they have jumped off the deep end, to a place of no return. And after reading this "vandari and safari" garbage, I find it disturbing at the least.

    I've got two words for Peter and Maria, GET MEDICATED!

    (To Peter and Maria) If you are honestly capable of saying this kind of crap, and beliving this sort of crap, enough to impose your psychotic illusions on other pepole, you really should think about seeing a Doctor, I'm sure there's some kind of antipsychotic that you can take, ether way you should be locked up where you can no longer do any harm to any one
    (reply to this comment)

    from frmrJoyish
    Friday, May 02, 2003 - 12:05

    Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
    This goes to show how tottally looney they've become.  Maria and Peter have the nerve to call exmembers liars and say we are making up things.  It is true that many of these accusations are hard to believe, but they are true.  What happened in The Family to girls like me who were born into it and had no choice of their own is a crime that is punishable by law in most countries.  It is not lies but the truth and Maria and Peter are the ones who will have alot to account for to God in the end.  If they werren't such tottal looney tunes, they would be ashamed of themselve. I lived half my life in the family although I've been out since late '89 I was tottaly unprepared for life as a "systemite", now that over the last several years I've gotten it together I finally am beggining to feel like a normal person.  I'm about to get my BS in biology and am going on to grad school despite my unfortunate childhood. 
    (reply to this comment)
    From patijo
    Friday, August 29, 2003, 21:43

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I remember as a young person on my face in the living room praying against our "enemies", and honestly being concerned. Brainwashing is such a real thing. And this is still going on. A close member of my family just left the Fam and was a CRO. He has got the wildest storeis you ever heared about the phsyco "Summit Mettings" and all the culty shit they did. This is still going on. I have been out of the Fam a couple years but for some reason thought the retareded stuff had begun to fade. NOT! It is worse than ever. If you are in the group and are reading this, my GOD get out while you can do something with your life. What the hell is up with only a sixth grade education being necessary? I hadn't studied since I was 12, when they foud out I could cook for 100 people they took me out of classroom and put me in the kitchen. When I went back to school, I got migranes it was so hard to learn. The Fam turns you into a zombie. I am in Real Esatate now and doing wonderful. I feel closer to God now, in my own way. David Berg was possessed, and Zerby is too. God left the Family a long time ago. And these weirdos responsible for all this shit and all the fucked up kids trying to start a life having been dealt a bad fucking hand, are going to HELL.(reply to this comment
    From Hellas
    Tuesday, May 20, 2003, 19:05

    Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    Fact is people all over the world are born with some kind of 'misfortune',kidz grow up in Palestine,people age in the poorest countries,pregnant women survive war,others live in sismic regions,others die in wars they didnt start,and in this dramatic 'boutade' of life,we rightfully add our frail voices of discontent.......we were not prepared for life in the system......we had an unfortunate childhood,as if we where any different from the rest.The day somebody realized that the envoironment we grew up with was nothing more really then a micro-ecosystem of the very world we live in,together with all the regrettable behaviours that carachterize the human species;religious fanatism,sexual misbeaviour,intolerance etc etc,that very day,if we come to that conclusion we have to admit that growing up in the Family is,as paradoxally as it might sound,quite similar as growing up anywhere else for that matter.The stories of people struggling to become more accustomed with the ways of the world,to reintegrate themselves in the normal world,those episodes seem hardly relevant in the millenial epic of a man that has never really found how to live in this planet.

    (reply to this comment
    From clarevoy
    Sunday, March 27, 2005, 09:49

    Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
    I agree. The Family is a cross-section of society. You get the hand you were dealt and it's up to you to make the most of it.(reply to this comment
    From Hellas
    Tuesday, May 20, 2003, 19:05

    Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    Fact is people all over the world are born with some kind of 'misfortune',kidz grow up in Palestine,people age in the poorest countries,pregnant women survive war,others live in sismic regions,others die in wars they didnt start,and in this dramatic 'boutade' of life,we rightfully add our frail voices of discontent.......we were not prepared for life in the system......we had an unfortunate childhood,as if we where any different from the rest.The day somebody realized that the envoironment we grew up with was nothing more really then a micro-ecosystem of the very world we live in,together with all the regrettable behaviours that carachterize the human species;religious fanatism,sexual misbeaviour,intolerance etc etc,that very day,if we come to that conclusion we have to admit that growing up in the Family is,as paradoxally as it might sound,quite similar as growing up anywhere else for that matter.The stories of people struggling to become more accustomed with the ways of the world,to reintegrate themselves in the normal world,those episodes seem hardly relevant in the millenial epic of a man that has never really found how to live in this planet.

    (reply to this comment
    From Hellas
    Tuesday, May 20, 2003, 19:05

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    Fact is people all over the world are born with some kind of 'misfortune',kidz grow up in Palestine,people age in the poorest countries,pregnant women survive war,others live in sismic regions,others die in wars they didnt start,and in this dramatic 'boutade' of life,we rightfully add our frail voices of discontent.......we were not prepared for life in the system......we had an unfortunate childhood,as if we where any different from the rest.The day somebody realized that the envoironment we grew up with was nothing more really then a micro-ecosystem of the very world we live in,together with all the regrettable behaviours that carachterize the human species;religious fanatism,sexual misbeaviour,intolerance etc etc,that very day,if we come to that conclusion we have to admit that growing up in the Family is,as paradoxally as it might sound,quite similar as growing up anywhere else for that matter.The stories of people struggling to become more accustomed with the ways of the world,to reintegrate themselves in the normal world,those episodes seem hardly relevant in the millenial epic of a man that has never really found how to live in this planet.

    (reply to this comment
    From Hellas
    Tuesday, May 20, 2003, 19:04

    (Agree/Disagree?)

    Fact is people all over the world are born with some kind of 'misfortune',kidz grow up in Palestine,people age in the poorest countries,pregnant women survive war,others live in sismic regions,others die in wars they didnt start,and in this dramatic 'boutade' of life,we rightfully add our frail voices of discontent.......we were not prepared for life in the system......we had an unfortunate childhood,as if we where any different from the rest.The day somebody realized that the envoironment we grew up with was nothing more really then a micro-ecosystem of the very world we live in,together with all the regrettable behaviours that carachterize the human species;religious fanatism,sexual misbeaviour,intolerance etc etc,that very day,if we come to that conclusion we have to admit that growing up in the Family is,as paradoxally as it might sound,quite similar as growing up anywhere else for that matter.The stories of people struggling to become more accustomed with the ways of the world,to reintegrate themselves in the normal world,those episodes seem hardly relevant in the millenial epic of a man that has never really found how to live in this planet.

    (reply to this comment
    from himwotcleansdoloos
    Monday, March 03, 2003 - 07:36

    Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    How paranoid are these loons?

    I'll tell you not Para enough, when I track them down it be arse kicking time.

    Vandaria Shamari, I am going to be a whole lot more scary than some WS bogey man.

    No really, these people know what they have done, and quite rightly they are scared of their come upance, they can argue with "Anti-COG" groups all they like but when it some to their own children the fight is/will/could be a lot worse.

    IMO, the only reason that it has not come down yet is because, like me, many ex-family people have younger brother and sisters still in the group, I for one was involved during the "Sammy Case" in England and I wouldn't like my little brothers and sister to go through that again.

    It makes me sick that they could wish/ pray any sort of "bad end" to come to their won kids, obviously been a lot of lobotomies going on.

    That was the Rant, I thank you for your time

    (reply to this comment)
    from eli
    Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 19:47

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Oh maria s dream is great,,, it is a reflection,, of herself,,,, the family is desperate now,,, people are on to you maria,,, a false prophet ,,, are are fullfillment of scripture,,, false false false ,,,,lies lies ,lies,,, slut slut ,,,ugly piggy
    (reply to this comment)
    from [Removed at author's request]
    Wednesday, December 25, 2002 - 14:28

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    [Removed at author's request]
    (reply to this comment)
    from [Removed at author's request]
    Wednesday, December 25, 2002 - 14:26

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    [Removed at author's request]
    (reply to this comment)
    From cyborcosmic
    Tuesday, January 07, 2003, 04:21

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hi Arthur, I mailed you and Adam. Remember the Herterade in the hague?
    You were ten or eleven. what's up?
    with love, Pandita(reply to this comment
    From to pandita
    Monday, February 17, 2003, 05:12

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    pandita de maggie?(reply to this comment
    from PompousJohn
    Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 07:54

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Jules, thank you for posting this, in my opinion this post proves that the Family has no greater detractor than itself, and no one can speak out more effectively against the Family than their own leader's publications.

    I have been out for a little over 5 years and have up to the point of reading this article largely retained my objectivity and tolerance for the Family, but just as the Family by incremental degrees of self-contradiction made it impossible for me to remain a member of the group I was born, raised, and educated in, they have now made it impossible for me to remain friendly to them as well.

    I can no longer respect them and leave them alone to practice what they believe in, since they close themselves off from any opposing viewpoint, how can they claim to believe in anything? They give themselves no choices, no options, and Zerby admits freely that their feeble ways of thinking cannot stand the slightest opposition, even from their own children. They even had to turn us into cartoon devils to fit us into their simplistic mythology. Well I could go on and on, but that’s one of the things I hated about the Family and the GNs, they can’t just shut up when they’re done saying what they have to say, they have to go on and on…

    (reply to this comment)
    From monger
    Thursday, November 07, 2002, 09:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I know what you mean about that last thing! Jesus never seemed to be able to get enough of repeating himself, did he?(reply to this comment
    from To Jules
    Monday, November 04, 2002 - 23:39

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Jules, very articulate, very well-said. I like the way you've addressed the issuses at hand and rather than laying blame, you have tried sincerely to find solutions. Well-done.
    (reply to this comment)
    from The "Rat"?
    Monday, November 04, 2002 - 19:51

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I'm just choked that our brothers and sisters and those that are still a part of the group are going to grow up thinking that we are going to morph at any moment into a blood dripping fuck face! It's pathetic, and just breaks my heart!
    (reply to this comment)
    From jez
    Tuesday, March 09, 2004, 06:04

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    They tried to tell my brothers and sisters I'd turned queer and then promptly died!(reply to this comment
    From Survivor
    Monday, January 17, 2005, 08:46

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    I know it's not actually funny, but I found it hilarious when I found out that the story inside TF was that I was now working as a prostitute and dying of AIDS, when in reality I have a wonderful long term boyfriend, a good job, I'm presently studying towards becoming an attorney and I definately do not have AIDS. It just goes to show that they'll make up any old nonsense to discredit those who have left their deluded "flock".

    One of the things that upsets me the most is that when people leave and can't get over the very real problems that were directly caused by the years of abuse they suffered in TF they blame those ex-member's problems on them for "leaving Gods cause" like it's some sort of punishment. Some people simply cannot get on with things and forget about their abusive past and it makes me so angry that they won't accept that these people's mental, emotional or whatever problems are the fault of their abusers!(reply to this comment

    from Kristie
    Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 16:57

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I love the term "Vandari" it sounds so morbid. Sort of seductive. But I did not know I was a rat so that's a new definition of me finding myself. We're the Vandari, and the worst Demons in Hell look down on us in disgust...then if the Family is of God, and we're persecuting them...WHY do the demon's look at us in disgust? Shouldn't they be loving us since we have more guts than them?
    (reply to this comment)
    From Visp
    Wednesday, September 08, 2004, 23:35

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Ah hell, I rather like it too! I call dibs for an IM name!(reply to this comment
    From Vandari Landers
    Monday, November 11, 2002, 19:22

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
    Agree/Disagree?)
    YOu have to understand Hell's culture and customs, my dear. In Hell the lowest strata ARE the most sought after and high ranking.

    As far as the disgust, in Hell it's considered proper manners to show disgust when meeting your superiors, in fact if you really want to piss off the average ArchDemon, wish them a g'day, or better yet, say "God bless you" when they sneeze, ha!(reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 31, 2002, 18:27

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Or they're of so little account to the demons of hell that they sick the lamo demons on them. Haha.(reply to this comment
    from j.
    Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 20:34

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    on the bright side it might mean a few less preachy phone calls and letters from "concerned" parents and zealous siblings... after all we've been possesed by the lowest of the spiritual strata; the spirits that the big shots of the spiritual under-world (i.e. ashraf, oplexicon, et al) look down on and even pity... in a related thought, how we're those of us who dont live or work in a big city where there are the rats and sewer lines that these "hitch-hikers" (remember the "peter and heidi" comic on the subject?) are inhabiting supposed to have picked up these parasites? my house is on a septic system and I work in a building about 50 miles outside the metro area... just a stray thought.. anyways, just looking for the proverbial "Romans 8:28" in all this.
    (reply to this comment)
    from Genty
    Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 15:38

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Boy TF has certainly become one sad sorry place. They're obviously worried about and feel threatened by us. Why? Because they know they're flippin' guilty. It's just awful that they would put us down for trying to bring their sins to light in front of the world and God for that matter. Well, all it does is make me want to do even more about it and make a good case against 'em. The saddest thing of all is the control they have over people. God help them.
    (reply to this comment)
    From Carl
    Tuesday, January 07, 2003, 03:22

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Genty, drop me a line if you have a chance. crushton73@hotmail.com

    -- Carl(reply to this comment
    from kike
    Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 12:47

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    in my oppinion the above family publications is nothing but the old cult tipical tactic of put fear over the followers. you have to keep in mind the following; we are not part of the cult any longer, we are not children of david any more, they are trying to put fear, and through that, control over the weak minders, so do not allow them, once we made the descision of getting out of the group, then they do not have power over us, not any more.

    with respect to Maria's son Rick, hey guys, he was born and was part of the royal family, he is not one of us, while he was attending to Mene's sessions of exorcism, having fun with teens girls who were part of his home, WE, poor missionaries were out begging in the streets for coins, through the selling of pousters just to get enough to eat and pay the rent, i don't think he has suffered the way we did. on the contrary, i think he is just an spoil kid who is just mad with mummy because she doesn't give him money. i remember when i was 14 getting up at 5 am in the very mornig to go to the market to beg for fruits and vegetables for the home in which i lived, i don't think Ricky had to do that at all, probably he always had nice food and nice things. HE IS NOT ONE OF US, AND WILL NEVER BE.
    (reply to this comment)
    From "The Rat"
    Monday, November 04, 2002, 19:58

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    He is simply a product of the society that we were all subjected to! It was not his choice, and when given the chance and getting out from under the brain washing, he left!
    I felt hurt and betrayed when the money was given to him, most of our parents don't have two red dimes to rub together, but hey if money was given to me, I would of taken it. So I don't think that it's his fault!
    I'd like to hear from him, on what actually did transpire, and more on his life, he wrote alot about Mene's, but I'd like to hear about his own!
    (reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 19:42

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    WTF? Who are you to say such a thing? Did you read what he wrote and posted on this site? Have you ever met him? He didn't CHOOSE to be born into that house hold, and certainly didn't condone any of the shit that went on. Like all of us, he had bad things done TO him. If anything he had it much worse than any of us. While we were out working our asses off in the cold, he was getting his head fucked with. He got spankings, like us, he was abused like us. The only real difference is that when he doubted doctrine or wanted out, he had to face the source of all his trouble every day! He had to call the perverd DADDY! You have some nerve, and I dare say you'll find few who agree with you!(reply to this comment
    From kike
    Monday, October 28, 2002, 16:16

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    who am i to say such a thing? i'm just a full who spent most of his best years of life living with control freaks. beleiving in Ricky's roal family and all their lies!! who am i to say such tings? i have not ever met him, and francky, i don't want to, why should i? who is he after all, just the result of pervertion and insanity, just the wonderful fruit of "dear mo and mother mary". how can intelligent people can possibly pay attention to the result of such a pervert and degenerate family, wake up Eyes Wide Shut, don't buy his smelly stuff. i'm very impressive that you suppot him, specially if you have suffered as i did. and to finish, keep in mind that he was an acomplice in Mery's tragedy, he defended what his dad and mum did to her, and keep in mind that he is just sniveling because mummy does not support him any more.
    post data: i'm so grateful that so few agree with me and that you are not one of them(reply to this comment
    From porceleindoll
    Monday, October 28, 2002, 20:40

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    What you suffered was not right, what the Family made you go through was wrong. But I think to label Ricky as you have isn't quite fair. Keep in mind he was just a kid when he Merry lived at his house and those things were happening, I don't believe he could or should be held responsible for those things, nor for being the 'role model' we were supposed to follow. He has left, he has spoken out, perhaps he will in the future.

    To label someone simply on their past or who they are/were it seems to me is quite unfair. (reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Saturday, November 16, 2002, 00:51

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    "What u has suffered was not right, what the family made you go through was wrong". Dear person, i´m sure u r a doll, and one of the most beautiful ones, one of the most beautiful kinds, am i wrong? your concerns about Kike´s stuff r so objective, i know that guy since his teen age, he was a little too much some times, and even quite exceptical most of the time, i have told him that he is wrong in his statements with respect to Davidito because he doesn´t know what he´s talking about, I don´t know dear Porceleindoll if he is right or wrong. in general terms i think he is wrong, but of one thing i´m pretty sure... you are very, very polite in the way you desagree with someone, I love u for that.(reply to this comment
    From Bella
    Saturday, November 16, 2002, 00:54

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hey Sis -- looks like you have a little admirer here. See, I told you you are a doll!

    But 1984 - LOVE??(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Saturday, November 16, 2002, 01:06

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Yes, why not? the first time i wanted to talk about her politeness was when she was argueing with these very impolite boys who were using bad language against her, and she politely reply them all. Isn´t it that to be polite? I love Her for that as well!!!(reply to this comment
    From kike
    Tuesday, October 29, 2002, 19:13

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    as i wrote to a friend recently, yes, you must be right, he was just a little boy when Mene's tragedy, so i have to agree with you that he may not be responsable for that, it may be unfair, then what i have stated, and for that i do apologize. but what i was trying to point out, and for that i have not received a counter argument, is that RICK HAS RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE, let's avoid everything i have said in an unfair tone with respect to my subjective opinion about him, which may possibly be very questionable, and you may not agree with. but you see dear Porceleindoll, my thesis remains intact, in spite of everything, RICK HAS RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE while many of us were genuinely poor missionaries selling posters in the streets. in my opinion that is much more unfair that my questionable and personal statements related to Rick. i can always change my tone, but that RICK HAS RECEIVED AN INHERITANCE cannot be change. and that is very, very sad. as far as i concern that is the end with respect to the Ricky subject, at least from my part, and as i told a dear friend of mine, this was just a depressive parentesis in my life. now, back to my studies and dear ones, i wish you the best.(reply to this comment
    From sougly
    Tuesday, November 05, 2002, 08:48

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Leave the poor guy alone!! For God's sake, this is one of the reasons that I left TF in the first place, I just couldn't stand the way that people like you just made up their minds about others before knowing the facts or for that matter the person!

    GET OVER IT!!! I am sure that if your parents had as much to hide from the world as his do they would have offered you something to keep you quiet (if the rumour is true) and I very much doubt that you would have refused it.(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 16:34

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    you are saying that one of the reasons you left the family on the first place was because people made up their minds about others before knowing the facts, etc. think of what you have said, then you gave your final verdict: I VERY MUCH DOUBT YOU WOULD HAVE REFUSED IT. you are just doing what you supposily hated and took you out of the family. how can you tell that Kike would have received any kind of money in order to cover his family´s reputation if you don´t even know him? just think of what you have written. sad for you boy.(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 16:32

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    you are saying that one of the reasons you left the family on the first place was because people made up their minds about others before knowing the facts, etc. think of what you have said, then you gave your final verdict: I VERY MUCH DOUBT YOU WOULD HAVE REFUSED IT. you are just doing what you supposily hated and took you out of the family. how can you tell that Kike would have received any kind of money in order to cover his family´s reputation if you don´t even know him? just think of what you have written. sad for you boy.(reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Friday, November 01, 2002, 20:59

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    you know, Adolf Hitler said "No matter what the lie, if you repeat it loudly enough and often enough people will eventually believe it." With that in mind, perhaps you'll refrain from repeating the quote you made such good use of in your post, or at least try to limit it to once a day, and in lower case. Regardless of whether or not your information is accurate, your vehement repetition of this rumor does very little for its (or your) believability. (reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 19:04

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    let´s suppose that Hitler said that, by quoting him, you´re politely saing that Kike is a lier, so let´s norrow the topic here, if Kike is lieing he must apologize, because he is wrong. but if he is not, and on the contrary, Rick received money from his Mum, we all need a very good explenation of the matter, i´m very sick of all this double standard. if some one doesn´t agree with their parents any more, or with the Cult their parents are controlling, how can such a person be receiving economical support from them... oh, i nearly forgot, that´s the old Berg´s tactic, you may not agree with them, but their money is always welcome... "Use it", remember? it seems that some people have left the Cult, but the Cult still lives in them. and JoeH, i still think you´re repeting Berg´s stuff, think for your own. you´re just saying the same thing with other words.(reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 19:39

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I'm sorry that you've misunderstood me, again. An intelligent person would see that the 2 quotes are clearly different, aside from their common subject matter. One was used by Berg in his "Big Lie" publications, the other I read in my history textbook while in High School.

    I don't know if what Kike's saying is true, the point I was trying to make was that repeating it in capital letters did nothing to prove it either way.(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:43

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    i´m sorry you have misunderstood the main point once more. you´re politely saying i´m not intelligent, it doesn´t matter, we are just dealing with semantic here. however, repeating in capital letters did a lot for his opinion, his thesis still remains unreffutable. and Joe, i still think you have to think for your own, don´t give me the excuse of your history textbook, no longer children; remember?(reply to this comment
    From JohnnieWalker
    Monday, November 11, 2002, 21:17

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    So you're saying that any quote from an infamous/famous person which Berg or the Family have used in their publications is now plagiarized by the Family and may not be used by a former Family member without bringing them in danger of "not thinking for themselves"?(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Saturday, November 16, 2002, 00:59

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    any one can quote from anyone, and say what they want, who am i to say what people have to do or say? I´m just saying that no matter what, you have to think for your own, just that. think for your own, even if is a simple thought, ok?(reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Monday, November 11, 2002, 20:04

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    just because I can't disprove that Petey/Ricky received an inheritance, doesn't mean it's true. And let's analyze your semantics "repeating in capital letters did a lot for his opinion, his thesis still remains unreffutable" Tell me, is it an opinion, a thesis, or a fact? Make up your mind, or get a dictionary.(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Saturday, November 16, 2002, 01:21

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    It is an opinion, a thesis, and a fact. Why? it´s an opinion because it is my personal subjective idea of the matter. It´s a thesis because we have a problematic situation ( did He get money or not?) and we have the answer to our problematic situation: the fact: Yes, he has got some money!

    to settled this matter down you don´t need a dictionary, you just need logig and systematic way of thinking.

    But i don´t care about Ricky any more, actually, Ricky´s subject has become a little bored... now my only concern is that some where is a beautiful Doll. hey guys, i want to move on as well, would you allow me?(reply to this comment
    From A loaf of bread
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 19:35

    Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Thank you jesus for this bread...even if you have to let The Family...um I mean the devil... bring it.(reply to this comment
    From 32
    Saturday, November 02, 2002, 18:05

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    yah, you r just repeating like someone who cannot think for his own what Mo used to say in the past, but the true appeared at last, and even if you think that Ricky did not receive money from his mother, it does not change the fact that he was given money. facts are facts (no lies as you put it)(reply to this comment
    From IThinkYouSuck
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 23:28

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Wow, thank the Lord, the "true" appeared at last!(reply to this comment
    From 32
    Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:54

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Dear, I think you suck, what i was trying to say is that how can anyone be repeating what Berg used to say, knowing all the harm that he has caused, what the Berg family covered for so many years at last it came to light, that is what i was trying to say; but of course, how can you would get such a simple thing, dear, I think you suck.(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Saturday, November 02, 2002, 12:59

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    JoeH, you are just repeating what Berg used to say in his writings, would you be more original next time? in spite of your cliche, Kike's statement remains intact. Kike´s vehement repetition of this FACT (not a rumor) does a lot for his believability.(reply to this comment
    From Vehement Repeator
    Monday, November 11, 2002, 19:30

    This thread is in The Trailer Park 
    From OhYeah?
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 18:13

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Berg also stressed the importantce of a daily BM. Are you against this as well?(reply to this comment
    From BMW
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 18:30

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Not against daily BMs. I am however against random cult leaders' requests for a report on the consistency of my daily BM.

    Bavarian Motor Works(reply to this comment
    From placebo
    Friday, February 28, 2003, 17:10

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Bayerische Mull Wagen. (correct meaning of B.M.W.)(reply to this comment
    From Blondieboy
    Monday, November 24, 2003, 15:47

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    The correct meaning of BMW isn´t Bayerische Mull Wagen but Bayrischer Mist Wagen!(reply to this comment
    From Bella
    Saturday, November 02, 2002, 18:29

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    If this is indeed a FACT as you so adamantly claim, then you are going to need to provide some proof. Otherwise, as far as this board is concerned, it is hearsay. (reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 18:36

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    agreed, and btw, Berg frequently misquoted Hitler as saying "If you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one, because people are more likely to believe it" This is quite different from my quote above.(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 16:40

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Why don´t You ask Ricky and Maria your self?
    I´m sure they can provide you with some proof.(reply to this comment
    From porceleindoll
    Thursday, October 31, 2002, 19:43

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    OK, I see your point. But first of all, is this true, about the inheritance. It hasn't been validated anywhere. Secondly, what should he have done, given it back, refused to accept it. If someone handed me some money as I was walking out the door, I certainly would have taken it. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but I'm glad he was able to get something out of his life in the group.

    About it being unfair that he received something and most of us didn't, yes, you're right. Does the blame for that lie on him, or does it lie on the leadership and his mom for making an allowance for him and not for the rest of her 'dearly beloved children' (bullshit).(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Saturday, November 16, 2002, 01:39

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    u r glad that he got something not because u r wrong, but because u r kind. u r never wrong, u r just and always kind, OK?(reply to this comment
    From Bella
    Saturday, November 16, 2002, 20:06

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Oh my god! Sis, you have a stalker!(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Friday, November 22, 2002, 19:54

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    not a stalker, just one who appreciates politeness, ok? she is the only one who has a polite disagreement with some one who does not think as she does. there r very few like that in this world, and she is one of them.(reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Friday, November 01, 2002, 20:54

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    There's a friend of mine I'd like you to meet. He's called the question mark, and you'll normally find him just below the pinky of your right hand as you're typing.(reply to this comment
    From hmm
    Thursday, October 31, 2002, 21:14

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    It would only be fair if he s.h.a.r.e.d his inheritance with all of us since we were all h.i.s brothers and sisters. Otherwise, he should be banded from this site, it would prove that his loyalty is still with his mom and not with us.



    (reply to this comment
    From hmmm
    Thursday, October 31, 2002, 21:15

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    just kidding(reply to this comment
    From 1984
    Friday, November 01, 2002, 20:38

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    funny... every time we want to state something significant and meaningful we covered afterwards by saying... "just kidding"(reply to this comment
    From hmmm
    Monday, November 11, 2002, 19:32

    This thread is in The Trailer Park 
    From
    Thursday, October 31, 2002, 19:52

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Before TF expects anybody to believe the inheritance bit, they should state who died. Probate records could be checked to verify that such a person indeed died, how they were related to Zerby's children, and what they left to whom. But since that line was being fed to TF members, who are trained to to "ask reply or reason why" but just to obey, nobody probably asked any questions at all. (reply to this comment
    From JustShutUP
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 19:10

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    You don't know what you're talking about, I knew Ricky back when he was "Petey", and his life was a lot worse than ours. I have no doubt about that.(reply to this comment
    From 32
    Wednesday, October 30, 2002, 17:23

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    just feelings, not facts; just weak tea. I know Bush Jr. That you have met someone does not mean anything... it does not change anything.(reply to this comment
    From 32
    Wednesday, October 30, 2002, 17:15

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    just feelings, but not facts: weak tea, poor argument!!!(reply to this comment
    From JustShutUp
    Monday, November 04, 2002, 20:05

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    There is no "argument".

    You are wrong, and I am right. That is a simple statement of fact

    I know what I am talking about, you do not.(reply to this comment
    From 32
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 16:51

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    it reminds me of Berg, are you sure you are out of the group? man, you are just talking like that control freak, and if you know what you are talking about it would be a help if you can share what you know, who knows, we can do something about it. it was because of people knowledge and the information that they gave concerning WS and the way they opperated that we are all free now, why don´t you share what you know then... little Berg?(reply to this comment
    From JustShutUp
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 23:24

    This thread is in The Trailer Park 
    from kat
    Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 03:59

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    ok, no really somebody needs to lay off on smoking crack. Sometimes I really do wonder what these people are on.
    (reply to this comment)
    From conan
    Tuesday, November 19, 2002, 15:33

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Alright...there is just way too much bull s**t going around. everyone needs to shut the fuck up for a second. The issue initially being discused here was the fact that we x members are now the lowest form of filth and scum in the universe. we are below the low!

    Maria said that family members need to pray against us! Are we supposed to be worried about this. I have a story about prayer. This is true but it's just one example in I'm sure hundreds.

    The power goes out right? "Oh, dear, let's pray for the power to come on." Ok , so we pray and nothing happens. We pray again about an hour later and nothing happens and so on and so on. About 36 hours later while we're eating lunch or doing shatever and the power comes on. Now it's "oh! PTL, TYJ" and all the other special sayings we all so freely ejaculated in the cult.

    So much for the power of prayer.

    What needs to be done is everyone of us who has blood family or even freinds still in the group needs to get in touch with said family and freinds and inform them that we are not what their freakish psycho leaders have alleged that we are. We are just normal people who (I hope) love their siblings and parents a lot and don't want them to continue living a pointless existence.

    Yes it's true, death is inevitable. That doesn't mean that you have to live your life in some seriously fucked up orginization who imagine themselves to be fucking god's dick and then be branded a demon possesed terror upon leaving the freakish cult. Our siblings need to be assured that we will not suck the blood from them, we do not live in sewers inhabited by rats and we care for them a lot.

    That in itself more than any BS you all are talking about will help them to think for themseslves. If we can prove to them (which is no hard task) that their beloved leaders are full of dillusional waste, than we will have done so much more in helping them tha in arguing about who's stupid or who got money leaving tf and who didn't. Surely there's more important stuff to do than that. We do want to see our families out of the cult right. Let's do our part to discredit them using the whole Vandari thing! The vandari revelation could help us prove maria and peter to be fake more than any other revelation to date. Unless we all really are blood soaked monsters. I know I'm not. (reply to this comment
    From to Conan
    Friday, November 22, 2002, 20:22

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    i think that in general terms you are right, some how the whole Vandari issue has gone because of the other subject. but to put that one of the son of the leaders of the cult have got some money from them is also a way of discredit them. how many parents can do that for their family kids when they decide that they don´t want to be in the group any longer? i doubt a normal family person can do that for their kids.(reply to this comment
    from dave
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 16:09

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    It's sad how The Family's leadership and doctrine treat us. They treat us, their own children WORSE than society and their parents did when they were bumming around in the late '60s and during the '70s. I'd thought there would be some "line in the sand" drawn where regardless of what we say and what they think of us, the Family would not come right out and called us, their own offspring, devils, rats and other pests living in sewers. Of course, TF leadership view the Vandari "vision" as part of their 'defending themselves against the onslaughts of the 'Evil One(s)'. I wanted to think that parental love and all the 'longsuffering' they’ve preached for years would be stronger than this. I'd thought this parental love wold translate into actions of unconditional love, peace offerings and reconciliation attempts to understand where we're coming from. How could any parent wish harm to come to their supposed 'loved' ones? It’s obvious Zerby never really loved Davidito and poor Techi. Correct me if I’m wrong Ricky and dear Techi, but first she basically abandons you to abusive adults and then abuses you herself for years (documentent in such painful detail for years in the GNs and other Family pubs). In earlier articles on MovingOn.org Zerby practically denounces Ricky, and accuses him of whining for money and calls him a liar. Now this Vandari stuff. Zerby never loved any of us. We were never “the Future”. We were just as spokes in the wheel in the monster called the Family.

    I'm not that offended by the Vandari "vision" GN. Part of the sarcasm generated by all the Vandari stuff is because this crap IS rather comical. But in many ways, I’d prefer to laugh if off than to sit down and analyze it like I’m doing here, because this is downright frightening. This just convinced me that the Family will NEVER change.

    A number of us second gen-x cult members have good friends, parents and relatives currently in the Family. I wish each of them well and I certainly do not pray against them, or wish evil would befall them. Us second gen-x cult members understand freedom of speech, freedom of choosing one's own way of life and we respect the sincere folks in and out of the Family who are doing what they can to make a difference in today's modern hectic and violent world. Bill and Melinda Gates have their foundation for helping others, U2's Bono can't stay away from Africa, his personal "mission" field. He just won't leave those politicians alone about helping the poor. Likewise, I respect the honest, hard working, law-abiding members of the Family who want to help others and choose to do so in their own way.
    That said, this does not mean those who were abused and mistreated in the Family should hold their peace. I wish I hadn’t be on street corners begging for spare change when I was a teen just so we could have some milk for breakfast. I wish, as far back as age 13, I wasn’t made to watch over other people’s brats and do JJT 24/7 to the neglect of my childhood education and socialization. I wish I had not grown up reading and listening to negative ramblings like “The Promise Land”, “Taking Correction –Don’t justify yourself”, “Kicking Bad Habits” and the list is f*ing endless. So, when some of us wish to speak out about our upbringings and start demanding straight answers, to get called a demon and worse and knowing the Family as a whole is now praying against us, casting curses and spells, distancing themselves from us is both shocking and appalling. We were all abused whether we realize it or not. We were all made to “witness” and fundraise from our earliest years. Child labor (especially unpaid, with no parental or lawyer representation) is against the law, except for places like China, Thailand, and other developing nations. Sadly, the abuse did not stop there.

    It's crap like this Vandari stuff that is going to make the Family an illegal destructive cult sooner than later. Where are the Family negotiators, the media spokespersons, and the spin control teams? Why can' the Family have some type of decent dialog with us? It seems in the past they have put more effort trying to understand, find common ground with and even apologized to the first generation ex-cult members, TSers, their parents, churches and others. But us, their kids, they say "No way!" They said they have explained things and made changes, but honestly, just glancing over some serious questions and giving us some (may I add, FALSE) "prophecy" from their “Loving Husband” as their un-negotiable answer is not sufficient. Staying silent because “Jesus said so” is no answer to serious questions. I would not be surprised at all if one day in court, the Family responds with “Your Honor, Jesus told us in prophecy that this is the course that we should take, regardless of what you and the law demands. We’d rather obey God rather than man”. In a nutshell: In the Family's eyes, were are all Mene cases. I am a Vandari.

    Just some disturbing thoughts (…Now, back to my studies)

    Later,
    Dave VandaRat

    (reply to this comment)
    from ruffneck
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 15:02

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Just a thought....
    Since when has The Family had an aversion to blood? Isn't that what they are supposed to be drinking at the end of every "Sunday Fellowship" communion, and aren't they supposed to be "washed in the blood"? Not to mention that the precepts of their religion are based on the very bloody events at the end of the life of a carpenter who may or may not have existed. So here's the question: since when is "bloody" bad?
    It seems kind of odd that a creature who (if we believe this "vandari" revelation) is so thoroughly "washed in the blood" as to be dripping red should somehow become the villain. Alternate interpretations anybody? :-D
    peace!

    (reply to this comment)
    From 34
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 20:37

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Its not that blood is "bad" its just "yucky". LOL.
    When did Jesus' vocabulary bocome so poor that he had to use words like "yucky"?
    (reply to this comment
    from JoeH
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 13:32

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I remember one time we were having a round of one-phrase prayers, I had spaced out and someone tapped me on the shoulder, so I blurted out "help them not to have any accidents." Later I discovered that the subject was "our enemies." So don't feel too bad, there's people praying for us, even within TF!
    (reply to this comment)
    From ophelia
    Tuesday, November 05, 2002, 07:17

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    LOLOLOLOL!! I love it too much!(reply to this comment
    from xhrisl
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 05:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I had the pleasure of my mother visiting this week, she had just returned form a trip to a summit in California, and was as delusional as ever. Some things never change.
    I confronted her about the "Vandari" revalation and all she did was shy away from the issue (she's working on being a real 110%er).
    I did get a slight raise out of her with my "100 Reasons" poster on the fridge, and she is deeply preturbed with my younger brother(who lives with her in TF as he is too young to leave yet) having a "magic green shirt" that my sis got him.
    On the plus side---I know I'll never have to worry about TFs evil wishes for my demise as my mother knows how much I abhore her religious affiliations, and makes sure to clear any members she may want to bring on a vist so that they don't wind up in a shallow grave. Hehe
    To be fair to her she knows all of her children will leave at 16yrs of age to live with the 6 she has already lost and she does encourage other SGAs who are thinking of leaving to contact us...as far as her life goes though, she has too many years in to back out now and must rely on her children to support her when TF has chewed her up and spit her out.
    I asked her about cognative dissonance and how she mannages to deal with the fact that the Endtime Wittnesses (Davitito et al) have left and how Bergs prophesies are going to be fullfilled, but it was a mute point.
    She is still praying for the apocolyptic demise of civilization as we know it as a means of justifing her lifestyle and religious beleifs.
    (reply to this comment)
    From Mom
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 21:25

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Ahh, my poor sweet son....(reply to this comment
    From xhrisl
    Tuesday, October 29, 2002, 02:26

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Love you Mom, glad you decided to vist.(reply to this comment
    from KIKE FROM SANTIAGO
    Monday, October 21, 2002 - 20:04

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    it's so sad to read this. it's so difficult to digest that now our dear friends who are still part of the group are force by the leaders to curse on us, or people like dear James Penn, who in a very brave attitude exposed Berg and his deplorable behavior, specially with respect to his daughters and grandaughters, what a sad thing. after giving a life, soul and mind to the family, after giving them the best of our life, now our friends in side are being force to curse on us. i'm thinking right now in one of them, i really hope that her mind will be strong enough not to allow them to curse on me just because i write this little note. it seems that some family leaders don't get the point, they were who promoted and supported many ideas and weird doctrins that have hurt us to the extreme of confusion, and now the ones who are wrong are us. it's so, so sad, quite impressive, to say the least. it took courage to James to write what he wrote, and it took courage for poor Mary Berg to expose her grandfather, what a sad thing, why don't they leave us alone, we are trying to move on, we want to make of our life something useful, we don't need their curses on us on top of all the suffering we have gone through.
    (reply to this comment)
    From Wolf
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 11:30

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Quote from the above: "you don't have to pray against those you love with damning prayers, asking Me to curse them as individuals"

    So even though you're a blood-dripping monster you're not going to get cursed.....you can sleep soundly now. Sweet dreams......(reply to this comment
    From dizzyone
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 13:24

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Yeah, but the bit you quote is immediately followed by this:

    "...but you do have to pray against the Enemy's attacks through them, and the damage he wants to do to the work. You should commit them to My strong and loving hands to do whatever I know is needed to humble them, to show them the error of their ways, OR ELSE TO TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WAY SO THAT I CAN SAVE THEM FROM THEMSELVES BEFORE THEY DO MORE DAMAGE."

    Maybe that's not a curse, dunno, but it kinda doesn't sound much better.

    This stuff is mindbending, you have to throw rationality out of the window to follow the tortuous contradictions. Enough to make one crazy.
    (reply to this comment
    From neez
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 18:18

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    You wouldn't have to be crazy, but it would certainly help..(reply to this comment
    from KIKE FROM SANTIAGO
    Monday, October 21, 2002 - 19:53

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    it's so sad to read this. it's so difficult to digest that now our dear friends who are still part of the group are force by the leaders to curse on us, or people like dear James Penn, who in a very brave attitude exposed Berg and his deplorable behavior, specially with respect to his daughters and granddaughters, what a sad thing. after giving a life, soul and mind to the family, after giving them the best of our life, now our friends in side are being force to curse on us. i'm thinking right now in one of them, i really hope that her mind will be strong enough not to allow them to curse on me just because i write this little note. it seems that some family leaders don't get the point, they were who promoted and supported many ideas and weird doctrins that have hurt us to the extreme of confusion, and now the ones who are wrong are us. it's so, so sad, quite impressive, to say the least. it took courage to James to write what he wrote, and it took courage for poor Mary Berg to expose her granfather, what a sad thing, why don't they leave us alone, we are trying to move on, we want to make of our life something useful, we don't need their curses on us on top of all the suffering we have gone through.
    (reply to this comment)
    from annonymous
    Monday, October 21, 2002 - 19:14

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    At first glance, this sounded pretty bizarre to me, too, even comical. But, does anyone else find it the least bit frightening? The Family is calling us, their own, children “emissaries of Satan.” They say we live “in the sewer systems.” I live in a meager apartment for which I struggle with the rent and to feed my family. They say we belong “in the netherworld…the lowest strata.” They say we “dwell in the darkness in these stinking tunnels and putrid bodies.” It seems like they’re trying to vilify us. If they’ll do that to their own children, what else will they do? They are calling us liars for talking about things which happened to us which they have apologized for and said in their Charter are now forbidden, but now they’re denying it again. They tell our parents not to read our stories or believe us. I remember when I was molested as a teen. I remember the leadership telling me not to tell my parents because it would weaken their faith. Now they’re denying that it happened to me. What about my faith? Peter tells the Family to pray against us now. They’re told to “pray that the Lord will curse them.” So, now thousands of people are praying that I will be cursed if I tell my parents I was molested and I am a liar and a sewer dweller? Does this not bother anyone else? It scares me. They are asking Jesus to do “whatever I know is needed to humble them, to show them the error of their ways, or else to take them out of the way.” I thought the molestation was enough to go through without now being called a liar and blood covered sewer demon, but now they want Jesus take me out? It sounds like a mob hit. Hello? Is anyone else disturbed by this? What all are the Family capable of? They’ve not obeyed the law concerning schooling their children, having sex with their children or physical beatings their children and now they want Jesus to kill us if we tell what happened to us as children? When will they stop? Already some teenagers have died and committed suicide, which didn’t stop the Family. Does no one else consider the Family a dangerous cult? What’s stopping them from ordering a hit on one of us, especially someone who is vocal like thepersoniamnow or Albatross. The law didn’t protect us as children. Who will now? Even children of leadership are targeted like Mene. Why doesn’t Albatross’s parents, who he says are leadership, speak up for him? And what about those like me who’s parents are nobody? What’s to stop the Family from going after me? I’m barely making it with no help from anyone. I don’t need a whole cult praying against me and God forbid acting on their bizarre belief that I’m a sewer demon for saying I got molested by a home sheperd. What’s the real difference between the Family and the mob? Think about it. Both intimidate their own and use fear to control and silence people from going to the police. I don’t need anymore of a threat than the one listed above to know that the Family is dangerous. We all laugh at how ridiculous the above letter is, but have we really analyzed the threats it makes and thought about what the Family has done to people in the past to make them keep quiet? Maybe we should. It is not smart to under estimate a religious fanatic, much less a whole group of them. It’s kind of like how the U.S. felt about radical Muslim extremists before Sept. 11, 2001. Please, tell me if I’m wrong, as I would really like to be. I just remember my childhood and teen years too well to think the Family has changed, especially when I see them doing what they have always done.
    (reply to this comment)
    From Anthony
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 22:47

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Annonymous, that whole bit about the cult ordering hits on us is not very popular on this website. I thought of the same thing in my article, Not-Anti COG: Part Deux, and you should see the response I got; although, I posted it before we heard about Vandari. Anyway, be safe.
    Regards,
    Anthony(reply to this comment
    From Albatross
    Monday, October 21, 2002, 20:15

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Annonymous,
    Your concerns are valid. For my part, regardless of whether I believe the threat from TF comes in the form of a verbal or physical attack, I have decided that I will not be cowed. The very fact that there are those who went thru what they did in the Family is reason enough for me to be involved in this effort. My parents are in denial about why I am doing this. I spent 3 1/2 hours with my father 2 weeks ago explaining that I felt I had a moral obligation to do something about this. I spent part of that time searching for an answer that I could understand as to why he as a member of Tf did nothing about raising his children in an enviroment where the sexual and physical abuse of children was encouraged. I was disapointed. I did leave with the hope that my father at least understood the obligation I felt
    to do something about this. I am now sadly made to understand that he has missed the point. In his denial he has now attached other and laughable motives to my effort. I think it is by now all to painfully clear to those of us who have left, that for the most part our parent's first loyalty is to the Cult. Their children are all to often secondary or tertiary concerns.
    I believe that this effort is important. I and others are in a position to try to do something about it. While we can't predict every twist and turn, nor the final outcome, there is a growing hope that this may indeed be the time when the guilty are called to face their crimes.
    Daniel (reply to this comment
    From Kyla
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 11:13

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Berg did away with any parent's natural instinct towards their child versus obligation towards the cult when he related the story about his mom's choice to "put Jesus first" when he himself was a child. Remember the story? He cried, "Mommy, stay home!" but no, she believed that "if any man has forsaken houses or brothers or sisters or fathers or mothers or wives or CHILDREN or lands... shall receive 100-fold..." We all know that the Family equals the Lord's highest will to many (if not all) of our parents, and if the choice is between their kids' well-being and inheriting everlasting life, everlasting life is proving to be the more popular option.(reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 20:09

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    So if they put all that before concern for their own children, they actually value whatever they're gonna get "100 fold" of in the "hereafter" more than us. They think that means they're get us back 100 times better or wiser (whatever) in Heaven after we've come to our senses, but what they don't know is that most of us won't be there! Haha! We'll be having a "hot" party while they're trying to work the remote on their "3DTV". Hehe.

    Jokes aside, it's pretty sad. But I suppose to group members this world is only a shaddow of the real thing. Only a school, etc. And they don't believe in reincarnation so will be somewhat shocked when they come back as dumb sheep and asses and not rulers! (I don't really know anything about reincarnation either but it's a fine thought.)

    I'm waiting to see how many people draw the line here. I think this whole Vandari thing will wake some people up.(reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 01:21

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    It's not just group members who believe this world is only a shadow of the real thing, there are millions of Christians who believe in it as well, including myself. (reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 03:25

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Wolf, in my book Christians can be broken into three major groups. Please note this is ALL VERY GENERAL.

    Group one acknowledges God/Jesus, prays sometimes, is open to other faiths and ideas, doesn't really go to church, doesn't tell others that they should be Christians, and although their beliefs are important to them they don't relate to everything in terms of Christian mores. This group tends to be younger than group two and three and although they may sometimes consider the spiritual repurcussions of what they do, they are usually just trying to get by and enjoy life. This group feels that Heaven/no Heaven is a non-issue compared to making the most of the life they are now living. They think that if God's any kind of god, He can defend himself. Group two and group three do not really consider group one to be Christian. Group one thinks group two and especially group three are gonna end up in the same part of Heaven as the scribes and pharasies. In fact group three might not even be there at all, which is neither here nor there.

    Group two goes to church at least once a week, may send their kids to Christian school, may require that their children wait until marriage before they have sex, talks about their beliefs and often "witnesses", takes part in community/church events and gatherings, and has a clear cut Christian/moral compass by which they accept/reject/judge everything. These can vary from stuck-in-the-mud sons of female dogs to accepting and non-preachy friendly people. Group two thinks group three is going straight to hell. Generally speaking group two prepares for the future, building up estate and business, setting aside savings, and planning for College, etc. Setting up riches in Heaven means giving to the poor, doing good deeds, living morally, etc. Temporal success is VERY important to group two.

    Group three are commonly referred to as fanatics. They home school their kids to keep them untouched by the world. Their small inbread groups often produce freaks of nature, ie: abusive pedopheliacs that believe they're raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. The second coming of Christ is of foremost importance and in deed, without this "glue" doctrine, many of the sects that make up group three would cease to exist. The idea that this world is a mere shadow of the otherworldly reality is usually taken to the extreme by group three, making it unnecessary to plan for the future. Christ will return like a thief in the night so they are always prepared and cannot having anything on earth to tie them down or distract them from the goal of Heaven.

    I could go on and on. We are familiar with group three. The point is: laying up treasures in Heaven and living outside reality are two seperate things. Must I go on?(reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 08:07

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Which group does a missionary like David Livingstone fall under? He felt God’s calling to dedicate his life to helping others, he didn’t seek people out to try and force his religion on them, but he did share his faith with people who asked about it. He also made major contributions to mankind from a secular point of view.

    I agree that people should not push their faith on others (and that includes atheists who actively discourage belief in God). I also hate people who think they’re better than others because of their religion, which is what I dislike the most about TF. Assuming there is a God, he must want us to make the most of this life. I will, however, continue to believe that we can look forward to the next one and that unselfish deeds will bring us some merit there.
    (reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 09:23

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I do not disagree with your sentiment. Peace to you.(reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 09:20

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Did you read his biography? Shines a whole new light.(reply to this comment
    From EnoughAlready
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 01:57

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Christians suck. The entire religion is basically a protection racket. God makes us imperfect, and then unless we accept his cure for being what he made us to be, he punishes us with hellfire and damnation. And don't quote me that free-choice bullcrap, there is no such thing.

    The Mafia runs on much the same philosophy, create people's problems, then sell them the cure.(reply to this comment
    From BabaYaga
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 11:45

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I agree. With MOST "Christians", their whole belief is basically a life insurance policy for both here and the "
    afterlife". "Because I believe in God, He will protect me and I'll be going to Heaven for sure. Whew." Most of them also believe they are better than the rest of the world, esp. people of other religions. They are so disrespectful! The active Christians are often annoying, and if you complain, then they cry out that it's religious persecution.

    Most of the ones I have been in contact with basically feel that if you aren't a church-going Christian, then it's impossible for you to truly know right from wrong. Therefore they must decide for you.

    What's wrong with this picture: God loves you so much, that he gave his only son to die for you, so you could have eternal life. Awwwwwww. But if you don't accept his free loving gift, then you are going to burn in hell for eternity! What's up with that? (reply to this comment
    From deadpoet
    Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 06:39

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    For the record all of you ex -COG have made my prayer list in a way your former leaders could not have envisioned .I will pray for the mending of hearts and minds .I will pray for your children, success in your jobs,friendships,and relationships.I will pray that you can find God apart from this madness .I will pray for the relatives you love that are still stuck in the Family.I will pray for the destruction and utter ruination of the Family as an entity.God will never hear the sick, deluded prayers of the Bergs but I hope that though I am a false and sin-stained creature of dust that He will honor mine .(reply to this comment
    From deadpoet
    Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 05:57

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Well, perhaps the most important feature about a free gift is that there is no such thing.Somewhere along the line someone paid for the free gift you get at Christmas.If not with money -with their time and the matierials used in creating the gift .The bottom line is no free lunches !!I read an AMA [American Medical Association] article once where the medically went through what an actual Roman Crucfixion was like .The part where Jesus sweats blood in the Garden of Gethsemane is an actual condition where tiny blood vessels in the forehead rupture under great stress.I have often wondered if the mere thought of my own death would illicit this reaction on my part or if I would have to be anticipating something far worse.If a holy divine being already suffering from being beaten in the flesh by whips exposing His ribs and then nails driven through His hands now experienced the impact of every sin ever committed -what would that be like? Every bit of darkness in the world from the damage created by the Children of God to the Inquisitions and the death of 6 Million Jews in the Holocaust.Every rape ever committed.Every lie ever told.Every murder since Cain .All in one searing, agonizing ,terrible instant bearing the detailed knowledge and consequences of each sin .Is it any wonder what must have killed Him first: the mere nails driven through His hands and feet or the billions upon billions of psychological,emotional and spiritual "nails" driven into His Being ? What god have you ever read about that would sacrifice so much just for the mere possibility that people would choose to accept the sacrifice he made .This is the "free" gift we have been speaking of.It wasn't very "free".There is such a stark difference between the Bergs who are vicious takers and offer nothing in return but sorrow and the One who selflessly gave everything so that we could have something more beautiful than we have ever known.As a Christian I am less concerned with my "fire insurance" amd more concerned with an everday understanding of God and how that relates to the here- and -now not Eternal Life .I don't feel persecuted and I don't feel the need to be condescending or decide for anyone.I want to be as focused on being as Christlike as I can be and work out my own Salvation with fear and trembling-Deadpoet (reply to this comment
    From BabaYaga
    Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 13:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Thank you for commenting on what I said about "free". Now please comment on and explain to me why I'll burn in hell for eternity if I don't accept the (free) loving gift. (reply to this comment
    From BabaYaga
    Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 13:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Thank you for commenting on what I said about "free". Now please comment on and explain to me why I'll burn in hell for eternity if I don't accept the (free) loving gift. (reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 08:11

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Yep, you've been in contact with too much of the wrong kind of Christianity.(reply to this comment
    From BabaYaga
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 11:59

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Yeah, for starters, I was in the Family.

    Please enlighten me, where is the right kind of Christianity? I know of no denomination but I will admit I have met a few individuals who impressed me as being the real thing. But they were the precious few.

    Where's the Antichrist when you need him? (reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 23:18

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I agree, I don't think there is a "right kind" of Christian group, just some individuals who are close to God without having a stick up their butt.(reply to this comment
    From conan
    Tuesday, November 19, 2002, 15:44

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Please, now there's right and wrong christianity?? you've got to be shitting me. that's the biggest load of shit i've ever heard. The religion of christianity is based on an oxymoron: the immaculate conception! For those of you who don't know what that is: look it up. If you believe that christianity is true than why not believe in islam. or bhuddism, or hinduism, or (dare i say it) evolution. I know that evolution is not a religion but it is a way of thinking! Where is the proof in any religion. Every single religion in the world is based on fear of the after-life. If you're a christian than you believe that you'll die and go to heaven. if your hindu you'll believe that you die and come back as a cow if your lucky. It's all bull.


    Believe in life and the human race! The rest is superfluous!(reply to this comment
    From watching and waiting
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 13:55

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Yeah, "even so, come quickly, o Antichrist!" I might just start writing letters to the AC and leaving them out with cookies once a year at night. (reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 03:38

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Which brings to mind yet another Family contradiction: They say that we were created with the majesty of choice and not as robots programmed to love God. Yet when they do something good, they insist that it's only Jesus, and that without him they could do nothing. Excuse me for living, excuse me for living. Central to their existence is the belief that anything good is God working through them, but anything bad is their own idea--so help them gawd! I believe it's called original sin. A real confidence builder. Pathetic.

    Contradiction: "When I've done a good thing, it's wasn't something "I" chose but I've been God's puppet and therefore all glory goes to His fingers for moving me right. When I've done something bad, I've made the wrong choice and I'll have to pay /repent /apologise. I'm all bad and if I ever get away from God's grace I'll become a cereal murderer or politician."

    If the "majesty of choice" were a whole concept we should accept credit for the good choices we make and the good we do. It's one way or the other. Can't have half of one and half of the other.(reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 08:05

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    How exactly does one become a cereal murderer? Is that like the kind of murderer that gets his photo on cereal boxes? Sounds interesting.(reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 09:21

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hahaha! Yes, exactly.(reply to this comment
    From Kyla
    Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 09:32

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    To be honest, sadly, I do not think most parents or individuals will "wake up" because of this latest "revelation". I think our parents/loved ones will compartmentalize, as one must do with all new revolutions in TF. At the end of the day, no parent will see THEIR children as Vandari. They will close their eyes and say, "No, it's our enemies, it's the BAD ex-members, it's not my baby".

    Because so many of us do not want to hurt our parents, I doubt many of us are completely ruthless with the truth of our hatred and opposition towards The Family. Thus they have no idea how "Vandari" we truly are; thus they will not oppose the insanity of this "revelation". (reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 03:40

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I talked to my dad this morning. He finally read the Vandari letter. He feels exactly as you predicted.(reply to this comment
    From devastated
    Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 13:11

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Here's one whose parent considers me a bad ex-member because she knows the extent of my opposition toward TF. She also knows what I was put through by TF. Sadly, I do not expect her to oppose the insanity of the Vandari revelation either.(reply to this comment
    From xhrisl
    Thursday, October 24, 2002, 06:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I feel for you and with you on this issue.
    (reply to this comment
    From annonymous
    Monday, October 21, 2002, 20:36

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Yes, I suppose we should expect so much from our parents and the Family and not be surprised. They were the ones after all that sent us to sleep with the home sheperd when we were twelve. I guess this letter shouldn't surprise us.(reply to this comment
    from Matt_TheShadow
    Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:25

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    **ORDER YOUR VANDARI -beat the Christmas rush**

    I know some people have taken this very seriously, and I can understand why; its a little perplexing to think there are people actually praying against you (aka cursing) whether you actually expect your toes to turn green and drop off or not.

    But personally, I find it very hard to take this seriously. If, like me, you have parents still in the Family, still apparently buying all this hook line and sinker, why not get them a Christmas gift to win them over to you as friends?

    May I suggest... A bottle of Vandari Wine? A fine Italian vintage.

    ORDER NOW:
    http://www.venditti.it/masseria_venditti_vino_biologico/vandari.htm

    (And the beauty of this is you it won't be hard to decide red or white)
    (reply to this comment)
    from neez
    Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 04:36

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    This is too funny. Vandari..?

    What the fuck is this shit!

    You go away on holidays(nearly went to Bali), & when you come back, you find out you'll be turning into a hideous blood dripping monster.. How do you get 10 Ltrs. of blood stains out of a blanket?

    Come to think of it, this is probably the nicest thing they've ever done for us. The whole concept kicks heavens girls ass any day.
    (reply to this comment)
    from shekicks
    Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 04:31

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    This woman is absolutely bril! Think about it, first she tells TF members that their the chosen ones, and that they're "called apart" or whatever it is. Then she demonizes everyone who doesn't totally agree with her, the prophecies, etc. on every score. Because of this demonization no one in TF even wants to know the truth. Of course I'm not speaking of every single Family member here, but slowly Zerby's drawing everyone closer in to her world. Agree and you're a true believer, disagree and you're a goat, but if you're confused you're not commited enough and pretty much on the road to becoming an infamous Vandari. Pretty soon it'll be a selection of the elite who hold the same opinion as her before she speaks. She trying to turn a thousand individuals into identical twins - although of course, she'll tragically have to purge the vine every once in a GN.
    That's just what I think
    (reply to this comment)
    from Craven de Kere
    Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 01:43

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    This is excellent! Jules, can I use this in the media material I want to put together?
    (reply to this comment)
    from 34
    Friday, October 18, 2002 - 19:06

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hey peeps.
    When I read this Vandari thing I first laughed my ass off, then I thought of something really cool:
    Could this finally be the embodiment of the "superpowers" we were always promised?

    (reply to this comment)
    from 34
    Friday, October 18, 2002 - 19:06

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hey peeps.
    When I read this Vandari thing I first laughed my ass off, then I thought of something really cool:
    Could this finally be the embodiment of the "superpowers" we were always promised?

    (reply to this comment)
    from Vandari, Ruler of the sewers
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 15:10

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Some select words from the Vandari lexicon:

    “Vanquished”. Pronounced : Vang-kwished.
    A contraction of the words Vandari and squished.
    Meaning, the pummeling received at the hands of a Vandari.

    “Van-pool” A bloody place of bathing.

    “Van Dyke” Pronounced: Van-diek
    From Old Dutch
    Meaning, A lesbian Vandari.

    “Vanity” Pronounced: Van-I-tee.
    From old English.
    What Vandari selfishly drink when they run out of coffee.

    “Vain”
    A Vandari in pain.

    “Vanish”
    The occurrence of a Vandari re-morphing into human form.

    “Vain Vabble”
    Vandari small talk, chitchat.
    Not to be confused with the word “Vain.”
    Vain Vabble has an Aramaic root.

    “Vanizuela”
    A favorite Vandari vacation local.


    (reply to this comment)
    from Whiskers
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 10:12

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Meanwhile at WS a faithful member prepares a message to send King Peter and Queen Maria. He wants to pass onto them a warning he received in vision for the Family to deparately pray to control internet access in Family homes.

    Dear Mama,
    The Lord just gave me an important urgent message for the Family. It's a serious follow up warning about the Vandari.

    (Vision) I see a teen entering the home's office during quiet time. He seems nervous and like he doesn't want anyone to see him, like he knows he's doing something wrong. Now he's in front of the computer monitor and he's online and it is clear that he's surfing on ex member web sites. He seems to have overcome his guilt feelings and his eyes are beginning to shine with a curious enthrallement. But the color of the monitor is slowly changing, first tinted pink, then light red, and now it's becoming cloaked in a deeper and deeper blood red color. But the teen does not even see this happening. He's captivted by what he's reading. The shape of the monitor has now changed and it's morphing into a dripping throbbing pulsating demonic heart --the monitor is actually alive. The teen, now completely hypnotized and totally unaware of how is own skin color has started to change, doesn't see the drops of blood that are beginning to drip tear-like from his eyes. He's turning into a Vandari.

    This whole vision is a terrible terrible warning to every one of our Family homes to desparately pray about maintaining complete control over the availability of access to the internet.

    It's as if the power of the Vandari is so strong any computer can be possessed by their bloody power and the wrongful use and visitation of the ex member web sites will result in the morphing of even the most innocent one's hearts and minds and souls becoming blood soaked in all of the Vandari horror.

    AAAAAGGGGHHHHH! Oh no!!! I can't believe it! Here in my WS office I'm in danger! Help! A minute ago all my co workers were sweet, well-groomed F members. But they've suddenly morphed into Vandari and they're coming toward me. They don't want me to email the vision I just had with the warning about to power of internet Vandari computer morphing. All these formerly wonderful WS co-workers are now cloaked in the blood soaking cloth of the Vandari.... they must have been secretely going to ex member web sites. It's obviously too late for them. I have to get get away!

    Oh no!!! They got me! They putting in front of a computer monitor, it’s logged on to the internet ...they're opening an ex member page! Oh my God! Movingon.org! They're forcing me to read it. It says: "From Whiskers …You didn’t really want to send that crap to Zerby and Kelly did ya? Come on ya know it’s better this way .…look at your hands they’re already turning...hehehe” Oh my god, my hands, it’s true, blood and….

    Epilogue: Here at the WS office where I still work: We're all fairly normal looking, not outstandingly gorgeous or anything, but sweet looking and clean-cut, some of us handsome-looking men or attractive women, generally nice guys and girls, well-groomed, your average looking Family member ...but now WE MORPH! Ahahahaahahahahahaaaa!!! Long live the Vandari infiltrators!

    (reply to this comment)
    from Lauren
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 05:26

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    For lack of time, I haven’t been on this site for quite some time and would’ve entirely missed the pleasure of reading this posting if I hadn’t been pointed to it by a more faithful moving on visitor.

    I can’t remember the last time I have laughed so hard.

    Aside from the very astute (and I must add, some brilliantly hilarious) comments already on this article, I wanted to add a few of additional observations.

    1) Zerby says, “They [apostates] exaggerate or twist the truth, distort it by telling only one side of a situation, or rewrite history based on some of the strong delusion they've received since they've rejected the truth, going so far as to believe a lie and tell lies”

    Although I take strong offence to this statement, for the sake of argument, lets assume that this very over generalized comment is true. My question to Zerby, Kelly and Cohorts is:, “And you do……what, exactly??” It seems to me that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black (yet again!) and hypocritically accusing the “apostates” for what they as Family leaders are so guilty of themselves. Since WHEN!!!! WHEN!!! has ANY Family publication not told only one side of a situation.—The side that THEY wanted us to hear?

    Since WHEN has ANY Family publication told the truth about what former family young people face when they get on the outside? Since WHEN has ANY Family publication stated any position, printed any testimony or told any story that didn’t benefit the Family leadership’s position in some way, shape or form?

    And they have the utter gall to so earnestly inform their members that WE, “exaggerate or twist the truth, distort it by telling only one side of a situation, or rewrite history based on some of the strong delusion [we've] received since [we've] rejected the truth, going so far as to believe a lie and tell lies”

    If it weren’t so very tragic in that the poor dupes still in the Family actually trust and believe this crap, it would be utterly laughable.

    2) “David Berg” in “prophecy” proclaims, “What our enemies are not fully counting on is the Family's ability to rally to the need and to amass a force of prayer, calling on the power of some very potent and commanding keys”

    Again, for the sake of argument, assuming that said “keys” are actually something tangible not the creation of some WS secretary’s overactive imagination; and again for argument since the Family leadership does indeed believe in the validity of the “keys”: have they so quickly forgotten that there are some now under the Vandari spell that know all there is to know about “commanding the keys/swords” and if the “weapon” really worked, would be more than happy to pass on this knowledge to all Vandari Elite for the ultimate battle of key commanding. Since it is only the power of the keys (according to the Family vision receiver) that protected him/her from these children of the children of God turned bloody cloaked monsters, Family members would thus be powerless to stop the Vandari. All Hail to our Great Leader.

    Back to reality: Has the Family leadership (or whoever it is that gets the next prophecy) so quickly forgotten that their “enemies” – I believe that would be us – know all there is to know about the Family’s mode of operation. We’ve been there and done it all. Boy do I ever remember those LENGTHY days on end prayer vigil chains. Not to mention picketing in front of embassies, boycotting Argentina. Come on dirty old ghost, can’t you do better than that? We’ve been there and done it all. You really think that we’re not counting on, “the Family's ability to rally to the need and to amass a force of prayer, calling on the power of some very potent and commanding keys” – that’s exactly what we’re HOPING for.

    What did all those prayers get the Family anyway? David Berg got sick and died, Karen Zerby is practically an invalid (her health goes up and down like a roller coaster), Steve Kelly has heart attacks practically every year, the judge in England awarded custody of Sammy to the grandmother and only stayed his judgment when the Family caved in under pressure and FINALLY started instituting some changes (and “evil” Granny did not keel over or get struck by lightning), judge Marcevich (sp?) in Argentina is still alive and kicking (last I heard) and your “enemies” are getting wealthier, more educated and unified. Obviously, what we’re not counting on is you guys getting your death wish prayers answered – same as always.

    To the Family leadership, I ask this: What makes you so arrogantly assume that God is on your side and not ours? According to His book (well, one of them anyway), it says, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel”. How do you know he’s not utterly pissed off with you for the way you’ve treated your own progeny and in order to punish you, he has sent a lying spirit into your midst (remember that Old Testament story) that continually encourages you about how you are so “right on”.

    Like a bunch of chumps swallowed up in your own self-importance, you fall for it – again, and again.
    (reply to this comment)
    From monger
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 14:42

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    The way I've seen it for quite some time now is that no matter how patriotic one may or may not be towards the Family, to read any Family literature objectively it must be recognized as "state media," which everyone should realize (as you said) will always try to tell things in a way that will benefit the powers that be in some way.(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 23:07

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    ...This would be in contrast to reading it as "the Word of God."(reply to this comment
    From ophelia
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 12:15

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I just can't wait to grow up so I can be just like you Lauren!! (reply to this comment
    from Auty
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 20:55

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I recently received this email from one of my friends (who has relatives that were in TF). I am posting this with her permission. I thought her perpective as an "outsider" looking into the website & reading the information would be somewhat helpful (or at least encouraging that we are on the right track) for us.

    For those of us who have relatives who were never involved with TF and we have not looked to them for help, perhaps this perspective will give us more courage to do so.
    Peace!
    ++++++
    I just wanted to let you know what I thought of that "Vandari" stuff.
    I am not surprised at anything the F would do anymore. But I am always
    concerned. Because this group is so irrational. My concern is some zealot
    might think taking out some sga's would be a sign of extreme action against
    their perceived enemies. This group to me becomes more and more dangerous as
    their actions show signs of desperation.
    The positive is that Zerby is showing signs of real fear. And using fear as
    a means of control, what she is doing is so predictable. But I think that
    there will be some who will only be more aware of her delusions, and be
    brought closer to the realization that the F's doctrine is nothing more than
    assorted deceptions and delusions of a horrible man who used the name of God
    for his perverted dream.
    I think that just as the F has some horrible pedophiles, they also must have
    extremists who might stop and nothing to show their loyalty. Even more
    reason that law enforcement needs to keep a close watch on them.
    I am totally convinced that the sga's should continue putting pressure on
    Zerby. And believe that going after them with every legal means possible.
    This madness really should be brought to a halt. And by going directly after
    Zerby would definitely have a impact on those abusers who hid behind her
    skirt tails.
    The "Vandari" message is really just a means of trying to control the things
    she's always tried to control. And that is the remaining members left in the
    group. I believe she realizes that she cannot control the sga's who have
    spoken out about the truth. And it's just a matter of time, as she uses up
    her little bag of tricks, and she will be left exposed to not only the
    remaining members, but also to the world at large.
    It would be prudent for the sga's to by all means try and keep some contact
    with the children left in the group. Because I really feel that if the
    pressure of real legal action continues, there might possible be a mass
    exodus of people from the group. And continuing to have a network with
    information will be crucial. I suspect that the dripping leak in the dam
    will become a torrential river of people waking up to the truth, and looking
    for direction.
    It's wonderful that moving on posts information about getting out and
    finding social services such as abuse shelters, homes to reenter society,
    and programs. Please encourage the continued effort of posting "how to get
    out". So many of those people need direction in that area.
    I personally would like to see encouragement for the sga's to not forget
    that their are loving relatives who very much care about them. And for them
    not to overlook the help of relatives. Though I do realize that not all
    relatives realize the extend of factors that would keep former F members
    from trusting their relatives enough to confide in them.
    It is a delimia. And very heart breaking that for many sga's talking about
    their experience is difficult to say the least. And to tell their stories to
    relatives who don't understand could be a roadblock to them seeking help
    from their relatives.
    I see a real need for relatives to become more informed on the sensitive
    issues. And to just be available to offer any support that might be asked of
    them.
    I can see that Moving On. org is a true landmark for many former F members.
    Does Jules know just how important it is, and the wonderful forum she is
    providing to sga's and others? I think that many of the Ex Cult sites will
    become more valuable as time goes on. And I hope they will be ever vigilant
    to the needs of the people they are providing a service to.
    I do see the comedy in the "Vandari" message. It is pretty far fetched to
    think this is supposed to be a vision even with a word from jesus. What a
    whacky believe system. And it really is hard to believe that there are
    people who believe this stuff. I suppose it's easier to see it from the
    outside looking in, than the other way around.
    But even this "Vandari" message stretches the bounds of believability. I do
    believe that it will push those already straining to believe that Zerby is
    really sane.
    And don't underestimate the real possibility that internal strife is already
    tearing apart at the seams. I can just imagine that in the inner circle,
    there is a torrent of confusion. And it could just be that the F could fall
    of their own accord. Just because Zerby would like the sga's to think that
    the F is solidified, doesn't mean it's so. And just likely she is trying to
    plug holes in the walls of her house, knowing she's in eminent danger of
    drowning sooner than later.
    Well, enough "soap boxing". I didn't mean to ramble on.
    I do care about you and so many sga's who have been abused, abandoned, and
    lied to by Zerby and her pitiful puppets of deceit.
    +++
    (reply to this comment)
    From Wolf
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 04:10

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    While I agree with much of what’s said in the above e-mail, it’s clear that the author does not know some things about TF because he hasn’t been part of it. A few points I consider important:

    -It’s unlikely that any family members will attempt to “take out” any former members. They’ve had so much training in submissiveness that they’re not even capable of this sort of thing.

    -I doubt there are many “horrible pedophiles” left in TF, though there certainly were at one point.

    -I know some of the Family’s worst extremists, and though they are extremely bigoted I doubt they would do anything physically violent to show their loyalty.

    -Who’s “them” when you say “going after them with every legal means possible”?

    -Whether or not there will be a “torrential river of people waking up to the truth” depends on Zerb & Kelly’s intelligence. If they play their cards right people might stick it out. Remember that family members feel they are accomplishing something for God, and they feel they won’t be if they leave, so they are willing to put up with a certain amount of craziness to continue “doing God’s will”.

    -I have nothing against hoping that TF will disband on it’s own accord, but actively seeking it’s demolition would be morally wrong, in my opinion. People have a right to believe and live as they want as long as they respect other’s rights and keep the law, so if Family members learn to respect others rights and keep the law TF could become a legitimate religious group. I might add that I think this would only be possible under different leadership.

    (reply to this comment
    From monger
    Thursday, October 17, 2002, 00:51

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I agree with absolutely everything you said here Wolf, especially that the Family will not change sufficiently without top leadership stepping down and "passing the mantle" to younger blood (which unfortunately I don't see happening any decade soon).(reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 06:18

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Wolf recently posted the following in regards to the group’s religious freedom:

    "...As long as they respect others' rights and keep the law."

    Hmm.

    If a child has never been told what their socially accepted rights are (NOT the rights of the child in the Charter), how do they know if their rights are being respected? I.e.: If a 12-year-old child reads the Charter they will see that they have a right to an adequate (can’t remember the specific word used here) education. Who told them what an adequate education is? If a child has been taught that the “rod” is the acceptable method of “training” how will he know that his rights are being violated with every swat? If a child has been taught to obey what his parents and shepherds say, how will he know that he has a right to question? I could go on and on.

    As for keeping the law: falsified visas? Falsified credentials? Fraud (collecting donations for "charity" and spending it on rent and dinner)? Eliciting donations without proper authorization? Witnessing in countries where unregistered religion is prohibited? Harboring “reformed” pedophiles (they’re not reformed; the kids just grew up! Either that or they’re too old to get it up any more)?

    Anybody else have one?

    These are not things that used to happen. They are part and parcel of the Family lifestyle. If The Family were a cloth, “DECEIVERS--yet true” would be the loom.

    Imagine a scenario where members told the truth like “real” Christians are supposed to:

    “Hi. My name is Randy Brown (NOT Jeremiah Praymore) and this is my daughter, Sara. I used to be a pipe-toting, pill-popping, hair-growing, shit-smelling hippy. [Editor’s note: winning smile here.] One day when I was totally fucked on acid I met the most beautiful woman I’d ever seen in my life! She “radiated” light and had the most awesome voice I had ever heard. Later I realized, of course, that she was butt ugly and had a voice like nails on a chalkboard, and that the only thing she radiated was a strong odor. Never the less, because I was high, I decided right then and there to give up everything I possessed—including what was left of my brain—marry that Bible woman and do whatever it was the rest of these people were doing. Man, the old days were outta sight! We would have gypsy raves for hours; bosoms flopping in the breeze under light cotton—just the way God made ’em. Somewhere in my initiation they told me that I’d have to give up drugs and sex if I wanted to serve the Lord, but we were still off our heads 90% of the time, and we didn’t have to wait long before our sexual revolution made the 60’s look like the a convent in the dark ages. We did this thing that I later learned was called ‘speaking in tongues’, but for a while there I just thought I’d missed out when they passed around the ‘fruits of the spirit’--hehe. Everything was so heavy but it was neat.

    “Anyway, this leads me to why we’ve come here to your bankrupt fishing village today. When we prayed this morning, Dorthy told us in prophecy to follow the Yellow Brick Road. We weren't sure what that meant so we came here because yours is the only town in the whole province that we haven't burned out yet.

    I decided that I would never work for money. I’d have 12 kids we’d mooch off lost systemites, like you, to foot the bills. In return I’d shove my religion down their throats, giving them initials for names and animal names for classifications. [Editor’s note: 85-year-old deaf man holding fishing net makes clueless face here.] Ok, like, if you give me a hundred bucks today and repeat a random sequence of words after me, I’ll call you a sheep and tell you you’re going to Heaven, and by the looks of you it’s not a moment too soon. If you give me nothing today because you’d rather pay my psychiatrist’s fee, I’d shake off the dust from my feet, call you a goat, and as for Hell, well that’s not up to me but I’ll put a word in for you. And now for today’s special: if you give me $30, no questions asked, and tell me you’re not interested in religion but admire volunteer work, I’ll add whatever’s left after tithe and common pot to my personal funds! I need boxers and a tube of KY because I finally got the hang of LJ last week and just zipped through the tube our VS gave me for Christmas! Just goes to show, ‘Try again, if you try again, if you try again you will get it right. I may be slow but there’s one thing I know that when I try again then I’ll make it.’”(reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 23:54

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Read my comment again. I said "so if Family members learn to respect others rights and keep the law TF could become a legitimate religious group".

    The stuff you said was funny and all but you really should read what people say before getting worked up about it.(reply to this comment
    From neez
    Saturday, October 19, 2002, 05:10

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Why do they only now realise(apparently) that they have to learn stuff like 'how to respect others rights, and keeping the law'.
    What have they been doing for 30 years?

    Does that sound like the early history of any other legitimate religious group you know of?

    Most legit groups I know of(not many) have at least a few years of legal bliss before corruption & paedophilia(what the fuck is the attraction between peds. & religion?) sets in. Then another 100 years before anyone does anyhing about it.

    They would never want to become legit. it is, as they say, against their religion. They were better then any religion/human ever invented. That was the whole excuse for the general lunacy, thats what they told themselves before bed.

    fuck it, I should've gone with the 'make your own damn point' approach seeing as this all goes without saying, but who could top eyes. Funny and all..(reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Sunday, October 20, 2002, 02:58

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Goes with out saying? I thought it also "goes without saying" that almost every religious group has a history of lunacy early on in it's existence. They usually start out as extremists and settle down after some time. Study the history of religious groups if you're interested, and you'll see what I mean.

    BTW there are many more non-religious pedophiles than religious ones, it's just the religious ones who make news.(reply to this comment
    From neez
    Sunday, October 20, 2002, 03:06

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Those poor religious paedophiles..(reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 20:39

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    that was pretty fucking funny.(reply to this comment
    From Nan
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 20:18

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    LMFAO!!!!!!!! Never was a more apropos piece written in the history of humanity! The humanity!
    Luv your style,
    mouth wide open (with laughter)(reply to this comment
    From pharmaboy
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 06:08

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    First of all, I also agree to full freedom of religion, but I seriously doubt most CM/FM people would remain in TF if they knew the full story. We talk about paedophiles and sadists, but a lot of the people in the family are FGAs with large families that truly believe TF is the best place to serve god and raise their children. They just want to do the right thing, and are convinced that their doing it. These people are being lied to, they must be shown the truth, it is our duty to let our parents & friends still in the family know the full story.

    TF could never be a legitimate religious group, once the truth is told and leadership changed. Dad was the founder and main spiritual guide, you think his writings would still have credibility once it's public knowledge he was a pervert and an alcoholic? It could maybe be a missionary association at most, but most homes I visited "on the field", both in Eastern Europe/Russia and Africa really did hardly anything at all other than trying to survive with a shitload of brats to take care of. Maybe once of twice a month they did some project, in order to take some pictures for the next newsletter.
    (reply to this comment
    from dave
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 13:59

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I want to got to Zerby's room and rip open the blinds, open all the windows, shutters or curtains.. whatever is keeping sunlight out. I want to turn on all the lights and let the sunshine and fresh clean air in. Or better yet, take her outside on a bright an sunny summer day around noon. Question: Will she disintegrate or vaporize like the witch in the classic film "The Wizard of Oz"? Will she burn up like Stephen Dorff's rival vampires did on the beach in the movie "Blade"? Of course not, but it would be funny to see her squeal, scream and foam at the mouth at the sight of any bright light. This reminds me of the Biblical passage that says .."they are lover of darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil". Two other flicks come to mind: The kick-ass horror film "The Others" and Jet Li's "The Legend of the Swordsman".

    Later,
    Dave VandaRat


    (reply to this comment)
    From butterhead
    Friday, October 18, 2002, 09:20

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Way to go, VandaRat! My thoughts exactly! She's probably mummified by now...no light, heaters on all the time...gosh, no wonder she can't get a grasp on reality! Kick the witch out and have her bad monkeys f**k her!(reply to this comment
    From AJ
    Saturday, November 23, 2002, 14:32

    This thread is in The Trailer Park 
    From EyesWideShut
    Friday, October 18, 2002, 09:53

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    With all this talk of Zerby's eyes, I'm reminded that she was at least partially "healed" some time ago. There was a big announcement, etc. Can't remember details, but she's been out and about more lately.(reply to this comment
    From none
    Friday, October 18, 2002, 11:41

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    it's called laser surgery(reply to this comment
    from sougly
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:47

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I spoke to my mother yesterday about this bizzare "message" from Zirby and read her bits and peices of the article above, she told me that she had never heard of this publication and she actually seems very disturbed by it and was crying by the end.

    I suppose I am just wondering if any of you out there may have had the same conversation with your parents and was just wondering what there reaction was, as I got the feeling from my mother that either this was NOT a true family publication or maybe it was just sent to a "select few" - Dunno, anyone have an opinion??
    (reply to this comment)
    From Saw It
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:36

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I just accessed the MembersOnly Family site to verify this & it's true. The letter is called "Introduction to the 2002 Study Month - Pray, Obey and Prepare" GN 1007.
    Maybe she still hasn't gotten it. In some countries it takes a little longer for things to get through.(reply to this comment
    From dave
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 12:16

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    If you would, email me the password for the members only web site.

    Thanks,
    Dave VandaRat(reply to this comment
    From
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 13:53

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Couldn't get your email or send you a message through the user directory.(reply to this comment
    From dave
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 14:16

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    It's fixed. Try sending it again.

    Thanks,
    Dave VandaRat(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 12:55

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    To anyone else as well who might not have been to the Family's members only website before, but now feel the urge to check it out:
    By the way Dave, I wouldn't advise trying to download a copy of the GN from there. To merely see a GN title on the Family website like this person did is simple enough -- you'll need a home number & their own password (which will give you access to most of the site). Should you try to download a copy of any GN however (this only applies for GNs), you will receive nothing, but the home you logged on as will be sent a copy of the GN at their email address encrypted in their personal PGP key. A more vigilant home might then report such as strange behavior & have their password changed, cutting off your access. Happy hacking! :)(reply to this comment
    From dave
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 13:06

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I know what you mean. I was enjoying the past half year of hassel-free access until recently. It took them forever to realize that this site was accessed by non-family members, lol. I this shows that prophecy does not work. Why didn't some "ghost" reveal this to them sooner. LOL. Speaking hacking and viruses: Wouldn't a cool name for a virus be the "Vandari" virus?

    Later,
    Dave VandaRat(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 13:34

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I've met the WS guy in charge of the "members only" site -- he seemed nice enough, and intelligent. The fact is that they've always been aware that ex- and non-members visit their site, which is the whole reason for all the security with the GNs.

    On another note: Hell yeah dude, imagine the look on a Family member's face when their computer tells them they've been infected with the Vandari virus! Personally I'm willing to pay top value to see this happen ..... should any of you sexy exer women out there actually pull something like this off, I'll owe ya a damn good shag!(reply to this comment
    From butterhead
    Friday, October 18, 2002, 10:02

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I've signed up for the next course on how to create computer viruses, monger! It's a pretty brilliant idea...we'd probably hear of some heart attacks amongst fam.members who thought the end was at hand upon realising they have the vandari virus. In my opinion, the virus should only kick in when someone trys to log on to the members only site.
    But Monger, I won't forget that offer of yours!(reply to this comment
    From Vandari, says not in my name
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 13:58

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Cautionary note: While talk of spreading a computer virus may make for interesting conversation....it would of course be illegal and dangerous. Any woman who "pulls it off" may find themselves punished with a little more than a "damn good shag" from Monger. :P

    Van ta la mera(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 14:10

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Touché. ;)(reply to this comment
    From dave
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 14:07

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Don't worry. Just a cool thought of a cool virus NAME! No one should be creating and intentionally sending viruses. You're right, this is criminal and has a steep price to pay for the offender(s), including heavy fees incurred by being slapped with a lawsuit by a site claiming your virus caused DOS (Denial of Service) downtime and loss of revenue, ect.

    Later,
    Dave VandaRat(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:12

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    She may not have received it yet as it's still new, but the GN 'Pray, Obey, and Prepare' from which this was taken was indeed sent to ALL Family members. Actually, it was sent in 2 different versions--with one version being "CM only." Jules stated at the top that this was taken from the CM version, but skimming over the FM copy it looked pretty similar to me.(reply to this comment
    From just curious
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:51

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    monger,
    Did you download/receive a downloaded copy from the site yourself? Can you confirm that the excerpts above are the same as what you know came from the MO site? I believe it is, but just want to make sure someone else saw it too.(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 13:02

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Yes.(reply to this comment
    From sougly
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:36

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    That could very well be the case, as she does live in Africa and there is a lot going on there at the moment. Cheers!(reply to this comment
    From Auty
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:09

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Is your mom still a CM in TF? Just wondering, that could make a lot of difference.(reply to this comment
    From sougly
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:37

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    what is CM? TM? when I left it was FM and TSer's or something to that effect - but in either case she is still a full time member.(reply to this comment
    From Aita .
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:46

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    CM = Charter Member (AKA: DO Member)
    FM = Fellow Member (AKA: TSR's)

    There isn't any TM.(reply to this comment
    From Deranged1
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:44

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    TF = The Famiy
    CM = Charter Member (previously: DO)
    FM = Fellow Member (previously: TSer, TRFer)(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 14:54

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    One more...
    ZERBY = Zombie Engineered for Reproduction and Basic Yardwork(reply to this comment
    From amanda
    Sunday, November 03, 2002, 10:19

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    proof proof. Yes she really is a demon. This is the cult's logic anyway.(reply to this comment
    From amanda
    Sunday, November 03, 2002, 10:19

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    proof proof. Yes she really is a demon. This is the cult's logic anyway.(reply to this comment
    From amanda
    Sunday, November 03, 2002, 10:19

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    proof proof. Yes she really is a demon. This is the cult's logic anyway.(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 12:51

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Alright alright I'll admit that was pretty lame. :) More acronyms, anyone?(reply to this comment
    From sougly
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:53

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Oh Dear it's all so confusing - Thanks for the clarification...(reply to this comment
    from Karreena
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:39

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Vandari WRat WRags

    Signature black Wrat with red eyes and buck teeth with little round glasses.
    We all know the Wrat represents Mama Maria Shithead.
    (reply to this comment)
    from Monk
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 10:06

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Zerby, Kelly & Co,

    You claim to believe Biblical scriptures as truth. If there is truth in the following Biblical scripture, may it be true for you:

    "If any man have an ear, let him hear.

    He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." (The Bible: Revelations 13:9,10)

    Regardless of how you may choose to interpret the Bible to suit yourselves, you believe in the written scriptures and it is clear. You have tried to make us captives of your destructive ideas which you pretend is a religion. You have tried to make us your "love slaves", "martyrs", "enemies of the world", "beggars" “sex toys for Christ”. You have employed and continue to employ mind games on your followers, preying on their insecurities and desire for a belief system suiting to a sexually free lifestyle. You have physically, mentally, emotionally and sexually abused us who were minors and children of “The Family” in an attempt to break our spirits and make us your subservants. You have failed with many of us, we will not be broken. It is my hope that you will "perish" with the "sword" which you have used on us, but not until you have felt every ounce of the abuse and pain and disillusionment which you have meted out.

    It is little wonder you are eagerly anticipating and preaching the “end of the world”, and why you praise and rejoice at the sound of terrorism which you hail as the fulfilment of your prophecies. You encourage paranoia at world tragedies among your followers and preach that they will only truly be safe if they listen to your preachings of “masturbating to Jesus” and “using the keys” among other incredulous teachings. Unfortunately for you, it appears you will be held accountable for the evil you have reeked on so many before any rapturous rescue by Christ. You will not be able to hide behind “religious persecution” much longer. The world will become wise to people like you and when retribution is served, it will be you and those like you, not your so-called “religion” which will be on trial for the harm, pain and death which you and your perversions have caused.

    One last thing, just because you believe something does not make it a valid belief or a religion and it certainly the fact you believe something does not make it right or lawful.

    (reply to this comment)
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 10:39

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Although the Family does believe that events like 9/11 were God's judgment for similar actions and for rejecting Christianity, they do not praise & rejoice at the sound of terrorism, as you stated.(reply to this comment
    From Monk
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 20:03

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Firstly Monger, are you a spokesperson for "The Family"? - I think not, so quit the proverbial bull shit of trying to speak ignorantly on behalf of someone else. I thought it was pretty clear my comment was directed at "Zerby, Kelly & Co (cohorts)", and not necessarily at your ordinary "Family Member". Yes Monger they do "eagerly anticipate and preach the end of the world" and yes they do "praise and rejoice at the sound of terrorism which they hail as the fulfilment of their prophecies".

    They do not have to blatantly condone violence or terrorism to praise and rejoice about it. The fact that you are unwilling to or are just plain too stupid to see that does not make my statement inaccurate. "The Family" leadership love to play on world tragedies and terrorism, plagues, famines as yet further proof that they are indeed "prophets". "The Family" members themselves use this sort of manipulation by fear or awesome wonder of so called paranormal psychic visions on their own children or on those to whom they are "ministering" in an effort to scare people into listening to them and consequently "shell out the cash or be damned to hell".

    So yes Monger, they do very well praise and rejoice at the sound of terrorism, it is their bread and butter. You appear to be both stupid and ignorant, perhaps you should return to your little world of crayons and colouring pencils. (reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 22:26

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Firstly Monk/Mokeyfart, neither are you any kind of spokesman here, so let's just keep this on the level of 2 guys who're saying what they personally see as true. Secondly, I believe we're both on the same side here & I therefore have no intention of starting a flame war with you or attacking your intelligence (you seem mentally sound to me), but I do feel I should reply.
    Yes, I'll admit that I don't know what "Zerby, Kelly, and 'cohorts' " (or every individual Family member) *personally* feels on this. I think you realize though that "Co." normally stands for corporation, and I clearly stated that it was this "corporation" or "organization" that I was referring to, not Zerby, so I'm just trying to go by what I see as their "group doctrine" in regards to random terrorism here. As such, I stand by what I said. Yes, they do "eagerly anticipate and preach the end of the world"; however, neither expecting something to happen nor taking advantage of a situation are quite the same as finding pleasure & "rejoicing" in it. Look man, I'm just trying to be objective here, it's nothing against anyone.(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 23:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    *That should read: "...neither expecting TERRORISM to happen nor taking advantage of a situation are quite the same as finding pleasure & "rejoicing" in it.(reply to this comment
    From Monk
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 06:55

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Monger, I’m sure we can both argue points and play the devils advocate if we want to. My initial comment was an accusation levelled at those running “The Family” not an attempt to speak on behalf of anyone. My own observation of their apocalyptic teachings and beliefs is not necessarily one which will be shared by everyone. They do teach that the US is “the whore of Babylon” and generally maintain and preach a sentiment which is anti-modern or in opposition to western culture. These ideas are similar to those shared by many fanatical religious terrorists. Strangely, “The Family” hides behind modern permissiveness and freedoms allowed by the very governments they so adamantly decry, and often side with the enemies of governments founded on freedoms they abuse.

    My point is simply that “The Family” profiteers and makes its’ living in part by teaching they have an insight into the future based on their religious beliefs and twisted interpretations of Biblical Scripture. Although I am not opposed to one holding strange or apocalyptic beliefs, to me “The Family’s” attitude overall is one of concern because it extends to almost a morbid excitement in “war, famine, earthquakes and pestilences”. Growing up in “The Family” you must have noticed many (again I do not speak of all) “Family” members revelling in so called “fulfilment of prophecies”, and “praising God” that a “sign of the times” or evil catastrophe has occurred. They often like to act as if they knew it (natural disasters, war, terrorism, disease) was coming or predicted it and are sometimes pleased that “evil-doers” are getting what they deserve. Of course who “The Family” consider “evil-doers” is normally not judged from a ethical or lawful standpoint but is normally determined by a political/ economic opinion derived from whatever whomever writing “Family” publications decides is in “the right” with their twisted sense of logic. Then of course Biblical Scriptures are then interpreted and contorted to suit, often incorporated by “prophecy” in an attempt to back their views as revealed by Jesus or God.

    I find it amusingly interesting how “The Family” took the anti-war (and general anti-establishment) sentiment in the “Hippie era” and basically tried to create a tailor made religion around it which they hoped the whole world would convert to. To me it was never a religion, it was an attempt to create and impose a legitimate sexually free lifestyle/ culture of which they would be the rulers. The obstacle of religious faith was one tackled with Berg’s interpretations of Biblical Scripture.

    I’m not meaning to state or imply that there are not those in “The Family” who have a healthy attitude to world tragedy’s or disasters, however my experience leads me to believe that on the whole, their outlook when mass misfortune occurs is to believe that God is judging, punishing his (and of course their) enemies or not believing in him (them) or that it is another “sign of the end” for which they should rejoice in fulfilment of prophecy. This sentiment I believe portrays their inhumane attitudes toward pain and suffering of ordinary people.

    In short Monger, I believe they (Zerby, Kelly & Cohorts) do “rejoice” in world tragedy be it war, epidemics, earthquakes, flood, famine as much as they cling to fulfilment of “prophecy” for validation of that which they give up their lives (and attempted to give up the lives of their children) for. Fulfilment of their interpretation of “prophecy” is what validates their lives to both them individually and to their followers. Don’t think they’ll ( all current Family Members) give that up so easily, regardless of how much of a fabricated lie it is proved to be.
    (reply to this comment
    From monger
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 11:02

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Thank you, Monk, for clarifying your views on this.(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 12:30

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    By the way, I agree with almost everything you said there.(reply to this comment
    From dave
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 10:51

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I agree with you Monk. Days after the Oklahoma City bomb blast in 1995, I was watching CNN in a home I was lodging in while doing business in Brussels. The reaction from one "uncle" was appalling. (I will be kind and not say his name here) He said some shit like like "Good!.. America has been responsible for so many atrocities and evil against 3rd world countries, it's about time they get a taste of their own medicine."

    I was shocked. I thought "Woa dude, put politics aside for a few moments and think of all those poor innocent babies, women & men who are dead because of some idiot's hatred. This is NOT god's wrath." This of course should not be taken like this "uncle" spoke in the name of the family as a whole, or on behalf of the group. But it's safe to say that the family, based on Berg's & Zerby's own writing, including distorting Bible scriptures, feel catastrophes are "God" judgment on "evil" man. I don't know if any one remembers a "BAR" GN pub that came out back in '91 in onset of the Persian Gulf crisis Desert Storm. In this GN, Berg accused then President George Bush of having a "war demon" and made many references to Saddam as being a "good" man. The family has always sided with the underdog who almost always happen to be dead wrong, evil and barbaric.

    This whole "Vandari Revelation" has united us second-genX family youth. We finally get to see family leadership "fall on their own sword" and "trip in their own trap". I believe that this Vandari GN has backfired or is going to backfire. The fall-out of this Vandari stuff I believe is going to be worse than the "Loving Jesus" series.

    Anyhow, just a few thoughts.

    Later,
    Dave VandaRat
    (reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 21:57

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    (Disclaimer: Monk, I am not a "shepherd" or "bell-weather" from your past life. I am a peer. You have always had my respect. Take the following for what it's worth, but I will not reply if you get pissed off.)

    In as much as I am aware, you have contributed to this site reasonably and responsibly, until now, which is the only reason that I think you'll give a Vandari rat's ass about what I have to say.

    Monger is a dear, dear friend of mine who has always commanded my respect in spite of our considerable age difference. I can tell you right now, whoever you are, that if you ever met him you would be duly impressed.

    You stated an opinion--with which I agreed--and he posted what I thought was a small but necessary clarification/addition to your post. Knowing what his take on Family/Ex-Family matters is, I don't believe he agreed entirely with what you had to say, but did he call you stupid or ignorant, or infer that you have the I.Q. of a mental patient or a kindergarten-aged child? No.

    Why then the hostility?

    I mean no offence, however I must honestly say that your excessive retort led me to the following conclusion: If demeaning people you don’t even know causes you to feel better about yourself, you must be a very small person indeed. Tell me I'm wrong.

    I for one see the validity in both of your posts and feel that Monger's observation was more of an addition than a contradiction to your thread. Yours was a passionate and sweeping statement about group members (I live on passionate and sweeping statements about group members, BTW) that Monger, who may still care about the feelings of certain full or partial members who could be reading, felt compelled to refine. I can almost guarantee that Monger would not fling random insults at you for stating an opinion. Well, he didn’t, did he.

    If we expect to be taken seriously by the group, a court of law, law enforcement, or anyone else over the age of 12, we have to act like we stand together and we mean business. Let's not forget we're all cut from the same cloth.

    Peace to you, Monk.

    P.S. How's it going with the vow of chastity? Harhar.(reply to this comment
    From to Sunny
    Saturday, November 23, 2002, 13:58

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    very eloquent(reply to this comment
    From Monk
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 07:03

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Sunny, why don't you cut out the Monger mothering and come back when you actually have something to say.(reply to this comment
    From May I Offer You Some More Feathers?
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 20:33

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I heard that TF claimed that mad cow disease was God's judgment for the UK court case.(reply to this comment
    From Aita .
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 08:19

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I remember. Came out in a "Current events" a long time ago. There was an article about the mad-cow disease & below an explanation from Berg ("from up above") saying that it was part of the punishments of God for the way they treated TF.(reply to this comment
    From Huh?
    Wednesday, October 16, 2002, 04:11

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Feathers? Don't get it.(reply to this comment
    from Group number two(!) Refugee
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 08:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Dear Mama and Peter,

    you are so busted.
    (reply to this comment)
    from dave
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 00:57

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    What am I doing? I'm Vandaring around on a safari in the jungle of my mind..lol. I'd love to go on a safari. The Kruger national park sound good. Question for the fam's "wine tasters" and "key" holders: Will Vandari foot the bill?

    Later,
    Dave VandaRat
    (reply to this comment)
    from Auty
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 00:31

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    What is “normal”

    In my experience with my past in TF everything was “normal” to me because this is what I was use to. Being on silence restriction for 3 months, suffering physical & sexual abuse at the hands of my leaders, having sex at a young age . . .was all normal. My normality was what I grew up around, what other’s considered normal. I never felt abused in TF. I never felt mistreated or lied to. It wasn’t until I left and saw the rest of society (on average), did it dawn on me that my normality was really abnormal & ultimately what happened to me was a fallacy. At this point the anger and rage set it. My normality had crashed around my ears and I was so confused. Everything was weird & my mind did mental backflips. The only thing that helped me realize what was not normal was (and I hate to admit this) watching hours & hours of TV. Particularly the talk shows. And of course speaking with my mother & meeting other folks that were “normal”.

    My point is this: The children born & raised in TF have a very different perspective on “normal” it is the way they were nurtured as infants. They do not see postering in the cold for hours with little food as abuse. They do not see their lack of education as abuse. They do not see uncle-so-&-so fondling them as abuse. It is all a “day-&-a-life” in their life.

    These kids are very sheltered and are not able to hear the truth about their situation or experience a normal environment. The perfect little disciples.

    I’m not saying everything is normal out here, but on average most folks don’t beat their children or deprive them of necessities.

    I guess I don’t really know what I’m trying to say, except when I read the Vandari prophecy & realized that “gosh, how messed up is this” and seeing kids my age and younger praying and thanking the lord for such a wonderful revelation. I USE TO BE ONE OF THOSE KIDS. I think most of us were until we grew up and decided that nature was going to control us and not nurture.

    JMHO

    (reply to this comment)
    from Beatrice, for David Berg
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 20:21

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Vandari is: Vanda R.I.

    Or Vanda the Queen Mother--Stirry Zerby herself!!!

    Vanda is a flower, a parasitic flower at that. In Hinduism it is a miseltoe used for symbolism.

    R.I. of course is Latin for Queen Empress or King Emperor--It was used on Jesus' cross. Remember?

    So Vanda the Mother goddess queen of Shiva/Shakti who is also a parasite would seek to further suck brain cells from her bi-spiritually mentally challenged followers to continue her own living.

    Of course, Peter of Amsterd.... I mean Tulips(2--lips, get it? It's the vagina thing right?)fame, utterly concurs. Him literally being at the utter, or is it the other way around with this topsy turvy couple of mind-bending poor poets of prophetic pathology?

    Anyways stay tuned for more of the same from this madcap pair of paranoid power trippers as they lead their band of followers further into the past where even bushmen fear to tread.
    (reply to this comment)
    from dave
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 18:56

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    New on the menu tonight:
    Vandari rice dish, served with a choice of veggies and fish. There's also a Vandari rice dish with chicken, turkey and other meats. In some restaurants in some Eastern cities this dish is also called the "Vandoori special".

    This dish is currently served in the following international restaurant chains:

    -Rat Moon restaurant-
    -Bad Blood restaurant-
    -Blood bath restaurant-
    -Shallow in the Spirit restaurant-
    -Vashti Vision restaurant-

    Man, this is so much fun.

    Later,
    Dave
    (reply to this comment)
    From Zelph
    Friday, June 27, 2003, 18:14

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Sounds deeeee-licious.

    Where can I provision a bowl?(reply to this comment
    From Bien Sur
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 13:19

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    ya forgot the Ratatouille, house specialty(reply to this comment
    From Blood Sausage
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 19:09

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    What about a Vandari Blood Sausage? That can work several ways!(reply to this comment
    from dave
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 17:54

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Is Vandari Stephen King's new pen name or what? Somebody was trippin' pretty bad while getting the Vandari vision. Did they read this GN to their kids for devotions while eating breakfast? How sick. I know it's Halloween month and personally, I like nothing more than watching good horror flicks, but after reading the dear Vandari "revelation" it's clear Zerby and Co. have obviously lost their minds. Perhaps it's time the family envoke the Charter admendment that calls for the permanent removal of Zerby the SickWitchBitch due to her severe mental illness.

    Later,
    Dave
    (reply to this comment)
    from Wolf
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 13:55

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    The e-mail I referred to was the questions directed at “Maria” with her answer. Whether or not this was harassment, I know undecided family members who were thankful to at last get a straight (almost) no-bullshit answer from “Maria”. However, I think mass e-mail is no longer effective, thanks to the moron nicknamed “Daniel” who inspired “the Professionals”. Now most family members think anybody who writes anti-family e-mail is a juvenile idiot who can’t get his own shit together much less tell them what to do.

    Perhaps a type of mass e-mail that would be constructive would be solely comprised of web links, allowing the recipient access to information without forcing it on them. And it better be links to something intelligent or it’ll just backfire. A compilation of Berg’s idiocy would be great if somebody had time for it, you never realize what a jerk he was until you read several of his more disgusting writings all at once. Unfortunately I don’t have time for a project like that, which would also require access to publications which have been destroyed. This would be great for some of the poor guys who joined in Asia or Russia without realizing what they were getting into.

    (reply to this comment)
    from Jules
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 11:14

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Some people have asked me about an email that is being sent to current family members. I don't know what this is, could someone send me a copy?

    For the record I don't support this kind of thing. This site was designed to be non-invasive, and for people to read and participate if and when they feel like it. Of course there's nothing that can be done to prevent things like this either.
    (reply to this comment)
    From jez
    Tuesday, March 09, 2004, 06:29

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I don't believe you have any reason to feel the need to protect grown-up twats' feelings who are stupid enough to stay in the family. Haven't we heard of evolution and survival of the fittest; the fittest LEAVE!(reply to this comment
    from Vandari
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 09:39

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Okay okay, it's done. Take a look in my image gallery for a peek behind the veil like I gave to Tamar.
    (reply to this comment)
    from pharmaboy
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 04:51

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I propose an information campaign, get as many e-mail addresses from parents or family still in TF, and send as many good threads from movingon as you can, someone is bound to read them. Being in the family is a choice, but it must be an informed one.

    PS. My re-education campaign of TF is already under way, using anonymous free email accounts.
    (reply to this comment)
    From someone
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 10:17

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    My parents have just received an e-mail from someone who has e-mailed out to a bunch of people I would like to know how who ever did this got their e-mail address. My parents are good people who are just getting on with things and minding their own business and what was done is harrassment!! I have never pretended to agree with what they do but at the same time I love them still and don't have any issues with them. My issues are with Karen Zerby.(reply to this comment
    From Deranged1
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 05:45

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Maybe. But what you're doing is called harassment, and personally I think you'd be a little pissed yourself if the Family tried the same thing on you. If they're interested they can find it themselves, or rather you should spread information my talking to people you know personally, who can in turn spread the word further.(reply to this comment
    from dave
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 04:16

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Vashti speaking: Oh vandal Vandari, vandal me again, Queen Peter is too busy looking for his "keys"...lol. This Vandari thing is just cracking me up. I thought Anthony's "Bin Laden stole my turban" was the most hillarious post on this site, deserving of the site's Academy Awards for best comic post ...but this "Vandari on Safari" is just way too funny.
    (reply to this comment)
    from VandariScholar
    Monday, October 14, 2002 - 01:53

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I disagree with Zerboids interpetation of the "i" in Vandari, selfishness? Hardly, it means plural, a group of apostates, Vandaro being male, and Vandara female apostate singular. You could say "Those Vandari" or else "Those Vandarians" It could also be used as a verb ie: "Man, we really Vandaried those suckers"

    This raises the question tho, what is Vandar and why are we named after it?
    (reply to this comment)
    From grayling
    Tuesday, January 02, 2007, 19:38

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
    In addition, it's completely bizarre to say that dar comes from the word dark. Maybe in some made up vision it does, but not in any sort of educated, intelligent society. But oh wait. Apparently such things don't really matter.(reply to this comment
    From Wolf
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 10:06

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Or Vandari could be singular and plural, like "deer" or "sheep"(reply to this comment
    From afflick
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 15:27

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    The 'dar' in 'Vandari' stands for 'dark'? Like it's of latin root!(reply to this comment
    from Anthony
    Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 16:09

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Vandari vs. Zerbari
    A declaration of war?
    Christ vs. humanity
    The wife vs. the whore?

    So, is this the cult's declaration of war against us, their former loved ones?

    Regards,
    Anthony
    (reply to this comment)
    from Monk
    Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 08:02

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Dearest Zerby, Kelly & Co,

    Don't you think you've gone just a bit too far? I mean, all the stuff you've been calling prophecy for so long has been bad enough, now this? Do you really expect anyone to buy your delusional visions and your re-lived paranoid drug experiences as some kind of prophecy? I think you'll have to agree, Zerby, this childish game has gone far enough. It was one thing when you were playing a prank on your mentally-disturbed, drug-zombie peers, but telling them to curse their own children is pretty bad. You're already guilty of ordering and condoning sexual, physical & mental abuse of peoples kids, & now you’re condemning the kids for disliking what they went through because you can't stand people hating you for what you've done.

    Zerbs, get help bitch, & tell the rest of the mindless people who call themselves members of your juvenile cult to get proper psychiatric help as well (And no I'm not referring to God, Jesus or any other member of the family [dead or alive] as being Psychiatrists).

    (reply to this comment)
    from Alf
    Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 06:24

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    The vandari? Morphing? They're obviously wigging out on acid.
    (reply to this comment)
    From Wolf
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 10:08

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Hey Alf, how about a "More on the Vandari" letter.....does Hitler have anything to say about us?(reply to this comment
    From PrettiGem
    Sunday, October 13, 2002, 12:53

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Is this the best they can do?(reply to this comment
    from Elsie
    Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 02:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    The GN asks: "How Do We Pray Against Former Loved Ones Who Are Fighting Us?"

    Mother, I already knew you pray against me, but tell me Mommy, am I a "Former" Loved One?


    (reply to this comment)
    From meg
    Sunday, October 13, 2002, 11:35

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    my question is how can anyone be a former loved one ? Once you love some one don't you always feel some sort of affection towards them even if you no longer agree with them? ( unless of course they are biter ex boyfriend/girlfriend)(reply to this comment
    from Wolf
    Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 00:11

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    "The time of persecution and turning your eyes outward will strengthen you greatly, My Family.... My Word will come alive in living color as you see the prophecies fulfilled...It will be good for the Family. It is My time."

    I.E., Z&K are doing their best to see to it that "persecution" will benefit them. The only one of Berg's "revelations" that came true is the "coming persecution in Japan" thing, and obviously Z&K are hoping this is their chance to put out another prophecy that will actually come true, and if it does it will make their followers more loyal to them.

    My suggestion is that those of you trying to get at them take this into consideration, and plan your action in such a way as to avoid doing something that will cause TF to rally around Z&K. It's probably best to start by discrediting them. I think the best think that happened so far was that e-mail that was sent out to a bunch of homes. The best cure for a lie is the truth!
    (reply to this comment)
    From girl
    Sunday, October 13, 2002, 12:43

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    what e-mail are you referring to?(reply to this comment
    from Wolf
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 23:55

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Note this sentence from the same publication:

    "Your enemies are still attacking with the old, old lies, but the old is long gone and will never be again."

    If the old is "lies" how is it "long gone" since these "lies" are still being told? I.E., this sentence is an admission that the "lies" are true.
    (reply to this comment)
    From lucidchick
    Sunday, October 13, 2002, 00:46

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    It is exactly that, Wolf, an admission.

    The other point this excerpt reveals is that the "attacks" they refer to are one and the same as the so-called "lies." But as you have demonstrated in your comment, they admit these "lies" are TRUE by stating that the OLD (everything that is old, by necessity, IS -- or was, if it was obliterated) "will never be AGAIN" (which is to say, the "old" once WAS, truly).

    Retracing the steps: telling what happened to us=attacks.

    If you don’t want it told, isn’t it better to just not do it?

    Put yourself in that person’s shoes who was outraged, by having been subjected to pedophiles as a child, for example; to torture [definition below], for example; to medical neglect entailing permanent and severe consequences, to uncompensated forced labor and to educational and psychic deprivation, and see if you can’t understand they would feel indeed duty bound to tell, in hopes of at least diminishing the extent to which a beloved one will undergo the same treatment. No reasonable citizen would blame such a person for seeking redress either.

    [torture...n. 1 the infliction of severe bodily pain esp. as a punishment or a means of persuasion. 2 severe physical or mental suffering...OXFORD ENGLISH REFERENCE DICTIONARY, Oxford University Press; Oxford, 1995, 1996](reply to this comment
    From lucidchick
    Sunday, October 13, 2002, 01:16

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    P.S.:

    I assume that the “old” which, they are assuring the reader, “will never be again,” includes pedophilia and victor training.

    It is a very good idea for these “old” things to “never be again.” Any action taken should aim to ensure that it will, indeed, never be again. I think this will be reinforced by simply impressing on the perpetrators the very fact that children grow up and do not remain friendless (those that survive, that is), a possibility they seem to not have had in mind when they did those things.

    And what are, in fact, the factors that helped them come to that proper decision, that “the old” should “never be again”? -- Selah, as someone said below.

    Yes, what many of us are speaking out about happened to us years ago; we have been out for years. As the people who have left later speak out, perhaps more things can be switched into the category of the ‘old that will never be again.’ This might be ambitious, but I would hope that this category would come to include include all infringements of the human rights of children of TF.
    (reply to this comment
    from N
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 21:31

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I found this today. It is an excerpt from a statement from Peter on the Family website. It makes for a strange comparison to the Vandari garbage.

    In September of 1994, WS published a Letter from Maria entitled "When Teens Leave the Family!" (ML #2942). 1 quote excerpts of it, as I feel it accurately reflects the change of attitude that we are promoting within the Family, as well as current and future Family policy.

    Because of our emotional involvement, we may have a hard time relating to the fact that in most churches and denominations, very few missionaries' children remain forever with their parents on the mission field. At some time or another, most of them go back to their home country, and they often choose to pursue different careers entirely.

    In the past, I believe we have in some ways resisted even admitting to ourselves that a choice exists that each of our teens has to make for themselves. We haven't even wanted to face the fact that some of them might want to do something other than serve the Lord in the Family and be missionaries. I think that some Family Members have probably done everything possible to avoid talking about really giving them a choice.

    We've done our best to try to hang on to them, even to the point of trying to persuade some of them to stay with us long after it was obvious that their heart was not in the Family and that everyone would be better off if they were elsewhere.

    After knowing everything we have taught and having had our warnings, if they still decide they want to go, then we should say, 'Okay, praise the Lord! You go out there and do the best you can, and we'll pray for you and we'll help you as much as we can. We'll do what we can to help you get off, and we'll try to make some arrangements for you. And we want you to know that we still love you, no matter what. We hope you'll be successful.' One thing I'm sure of, they will be a much better testimony to the good fruits of the Family if they do well than if they do not.

    We need to show our kids the Lord's unfailing Love.-No matter what they do or what they decide or how far they go astray, we'll never stop loving them.... How can we withhold our love and prayers-even from the defiant and the rebellious-when now is the time when they most need to know that we love them?


    (reply to this comment)
    From That Girl You Thought You Could Do Anything To
    Tuesday, November 05, 2002, 00:05

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Even when trying their hardest, TF honchos can't disguise their true sentiments.

    That bit near the end about "After knowing everything we have taught and having had our warnings" refers to one of the most evil components of TF abuse. I believe this is an example of what Hanna Black called "artificial condemnation" in her article. In the real world, this is probably called names like coercion and intentional infliction of emotional distress. It is a directly contributing cause of some of the suicides of our brothers and sisters.

    They drum their "warnings" into us and then they leave us on our own, deprived in many cases, of such essential things as the love of a parent, since so many of ours prefer Zerby to their offspring. They do their best to make our chances the slimmest when observed through the eyes of one who has never known our desperation and the corresponding will to survive.

    Zerby, Kelly (and the others who abused me, you know who you are): I was that girl you had a nagging feeling you shouldn't do that to because maybe you could only push her so far, and she just might live to tell, and she was sensitive so you thought the sensitivity was in your favor because you'd push every button you could think of and she'd self destruct.

    OH NO, NOT I; I WILL SURVIVE!

    (reply to this comment
    From EyesWideShut
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 23:28

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Yes, an excellent comparison, in deed. It proves that the Family is scitzophrenic in its standards and beliefs. The Family is made up of contradictions and that is one of the reasons many of us chose to leave; it was just too much damn work to keep up!

    One minute, "let's all have sex", next minute, "you're not allowed to think about sex".

    One minute, "Pride is the root of all sin", next minute, "We are the salt of the earth, God's chosen." Where's the humility in that?

    One minute, "SRness is worse than soiled kotex", next minute, "We're the true church, Jesus loves us best. That's why He revealed the LJ revelation to us. Only we can take it. There are a few pathetic attempts at true Christianity out there but nothing that comes anywhere near our soul-winning stats. We're don't THINK we're better than you, we KNOW we are! PTL!"

    One minute, "He that cares not for his own is worse than an infidel", next minute, "Try not to be too attached to your own flesh and blood because God might consider them to be one of the ones that He's gonna get out of the way before they cause us trouble."

    One minute, "We'll provide for our members when they have needs or when they get old." Next minute, "Oh, you need dentures? I'm sure your Vandari son would be happy to fork out the 600 bucks; after all, money grows on trees in Vandaria. Write him."

    One minute, "We allow our members to seek medical help; it's their decision." Next minute, "Well, the Lord must have wanted to take her home to be a spirit helper. She had had a headache and bloodshot eyes for days and it was obvious that it was a severe attack of the enemy, so I told her to go get desperate about why the Lord was allowing it. The she died. Oh wait! I see her! She's all dressed in white and she looks so angelic."

    One minute, "Backsliders are God's vomit and they'd better beware" next minute "Accept, help, and love your children no matter what their decision", minute after that, "Your child is a blood soaked Vandari! Get used to it."

    We're tired of the insanity so keep your shit to yourself.(reply to this comment
    From Jerseygirl
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 14:01

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    That was a good read, Eyes. TF was always going to extremes. It's so true tho that in the end they'll still want money from their Vandari kids. "TYJ for this loaf of bread, even if you had to use the devil to bring it"(reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 17:49

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    a common misconception is that schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder are one and the same. This is false. The Family truly is delusional and has lost its grip on reality, so you are correct in calling them schizophrenic. (reply to this comment
    from Vandari, Ruler of the sewer
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 19:52

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Just a thought: If the person that "recieved" the Vandari vision had beem Merry/Mene Berg, do you think that maybe instead of being lauded, she might have been tied to a bed, and beat by Peter Amsterdam for having violent visions? Selah. Just a thought.
    (reply to this comment)
    From Remember?
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:56

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    They had a vision of Mene with blood dripping from her mouth when she started to tell her story too.(reply to this comment
    from Anthony
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 19:11

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    May the Vandari be with you!
    (reply to this comment)
    from ruffneck
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 18:08

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Can anyone say "acid flashback"? One man's religion is another's belly laugh...
    (reply to this comment)
    from Anthony
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 17:42

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Well Jules, Apparently the lord doesn't think you're all that, LOL!
    (reply to this comment)
    From Jules
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 19:27

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I'm thinking all that sweet sweet loving making with Queen Peter might have permanently affected Him. He seemed to be checking out Daniel pretty thoroughly. (reply to this comment
    from thepersoniamnow
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 16:34

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Jean Claud Vangardi`s comment should be printed on a Tee-shirt!

    "If your SEXSEXSEX I`M 666!"
    (reply to this comment)
    From Robert
    Sunday, October 13, 2002, 15:40

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    That's stupid. Like anyone would actually buy that? Vandari hooded sweatshirts sound damn cool though.(reply to this comment
    from Anthony
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 15:35

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I waited for the storm to subside
    And the winds to abate
    Then, I brushed the debris aside
    For a deeper look, it was worth the wait




    After initially reading this “vision”, having a laugh, feeling disappointed by their attitudes, I’m trying to dig deeper into their psyche to determine the root. It’s easy to heated up by the outrageous “vision”, inflammatory words and pretentious prophecies; but now I’m trying to understand why they said what they said the way they said it. I have a few valid ideas, but we’ll never know unless we ask them, to be fair.

    I am not a lawyer, but I have worked for one, and one I learned is how crucial venue is to all parties involved in a lawsuit, so it is in this case, metaphorically speaking. It’s all in the type of language they choose to use: they insist on keeping this fight in what I call the “religious arena”, this is their clever tactic, the best defense at their disposal; and that isn’t saying much. It took a bit brain ping pong before “scoring” this conclusion, as am sometimes a bit daft, slow on the go, thick in the head, LOL! They aren’t coming out yelling “religious persecution”, “which-hunt”, but the language they use amounts to this, does this, yells that.

    I believe that by now, I have made it more than clear that I am an explicit atheist, as opposed to an implicit one; however, my speech against the COG cannot be spoken or translated into a religious language, my fight cannot and will not be fought in a religious arena. I speak for myself, but I am sure that I have secured solidarity in this. This has nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

    On the other hand, I do appreciate the relative difficulty in separating the religious dogma from what is not, should not be. The task is compounded by the fact that many of their crimes are intertwined, camouflaged in their religious doctrines, complimented by over exhausted “Thus sayeth the Lord” “validation”, which incidentally is not accident, in my opinion. That way, when we attack their criminal behavior they feel they can hide under the protective umbrella of religious freedom. Anyway, all that to reiterate to myself that this battle is not religious in nature; despite what they may say to the contrary.

    Regards
    Anthony

    (reply to this comment)
    From Jerseygirl
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 17:03

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hey Ant I have to admit that your article the other day seemed pretty extreme but it would seem now that you are, indeed, a "true prophet" foretelling what's to come!
    I am amazed at your perception yet again. (or I had too much to drink--yet again!)(reply to this comment
    from Vision
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 14:50

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I see this old witch and her spells cast on her slaves who are bowing down to her in a dark dungen like room. Her penis slave is to her right and her militant slave is to her left. The room is very dark because the light hurts her eyes and will eventually kill her. She speaks in a harsh alian wisper. "These appostates are destroying my powers. They must cease to exist!!!!" Penis salve and Militant slave say together in unity, "yes master, we will do what it takes to destoy them!" The witch says with a terrifying scream, "Go!!!! Don't waste any time!!!"
    Before her slaves have time to leave the dungen the door swings open. the Light (which is the truth) fills the room and a flood light is directly on the witch. "Ahhhhhhh the Light. I'm dyyyyyyying!!!!" And that is the end of her wicked spell, and a new beginning for her now dumb victims. What a rude awakening they will have.

    (reply to this comment)
    from Albatross
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 13:58

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Well, It looks as if someone’s been reading my articles. I posted the following here on August 22nd:
    "The paths to justice are many. We have only begun to explore them. The list of possible recourses is only as limited as the resources, energy, and commitment of those of us who seek justice and change. Class action lawsuits, requests for law enforcement investigations, personal lawsuits against abusers, criminal complaints, judicious use of the media, production of our own stories through documentaries, books, and writings, are all options that continue to be explored."

    The Following is taken from CM 3420 September 2002:
    "They're talking about trying to hinder our work through such things as class action lawsuits, requests for law enforcement investigations, personal lawsuits against individuals, criminal complaints, use of the media, production of their stories through documentaries, books, and writings, etc."

    They edited my comment in two places. They omitted my use of the word “judicious,” which means sensible or well thought out, where I refer to using the media.
    They also replaced my use of the word “abusers” with the word “individuals.”

    This brings up the question: Did god really have to show them all this stuff was coming? Did the media home have to “bring it to our (their) attention.”? I for one emailed my article “open letter to Zerby, Kelly and co.” to Zerby. I also provided a copy of “What next,” -the article they quoted from- to another top TF shepherd. That was in addition to providing them with copies of my other articles on seeking justice that I have contributed to this site. I just re-read every comment and article I have posted since I first joined this site. I have tried my best to be scrupulous in my references to past abuses. I have referred to them in general terms and in general references to the accounts of others. I have tried to demonstrate the cause and effect at play here. That is to say that TF leadership publish, condoned, and committed abusive acts, and we continue to deal with their long-term effects. Where is the list of lies? Where is the big lie? The victims are telling the stories here. We must conclude that they do not believe the victims, or that they do not care enough to make the effort to see if there is any validity to the accounts. They would rather out of hand dismiss these accounts as “lies.” This is despite the fact that they have spent several years proclaiming their care and concern for people who have been abused and mistreated. It sickens me their attempt to hide behind the average Family member. Why do they threaten them? Is it because they know that they have no defense besides the “positive testimonies” of their trusting and believing flock?
    On their own, they would be exposed for what they really are.
    It is a shame that the more level headed in the family leadership structure have not been able to convince Zerby and Kelly, that the best course of action is not to attack their own children (sometime literally their own children) as lying demon controlled apostates. But, we should perhaps find this reality-disconnected response as unsurprising given their thirty-some odd years of believing they are the royalty appointed by god, and having their followers fawn over them and wait to catch their every word. Well, now we have their definitive response. It is sad really, but not at all unexpected. Naturally I believe they have chosen the wrong tact. I understand the reality however that because as leaders they face a large part of the blame for the abuses, and being cognizant of that, they have selfishly chosen to “go down fighting” and try to drag the innocent within their followers down with them.
    I’ll close this on a facetious note by saying that it is in our best interests that they continue to get their strategic guidance from jesus, berg, and spirit helpers, since to date, it seems to be rather weak guidance with which to defend themselves.
    Any hesitations I had about the eventual success of our efforts have been greatly assuaged with the reading of this GN.



    Daniel

    PS. For those of you interested in a good Italian wine….Might I suggest the following? http://www.venditti.it/masseria_venditti_vino_biologico/vandari.htm
    I think I’ll buy a case myself.

    (reply to this comment)
    From Nan
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 15:20

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    "I saw a clean-cut, handsome-looking man, around his early 30s. He looked like a nice guy, well-groomed, together, confident and on top of things."

    ...ever get the feeling Daniel that people were talking about you? (reply to this comment
    From thepersoniamnow
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 16:24

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    ehhh..certainly ur not talking about me(reply to this comment
    from thepersoniamnow
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 13:24

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Quite an Interesting tactic she has.
    I have to say that as retarded as I think Zerby and Kelly are, they are not stupid!
    They are obviously masters in the art of mass deception.
    Reading the first paragraph of her talking, shes pleading and requesting help and prayer like as if she was the one who had been abused, degraded and deprived over the years.
    Shes the most gross, pathetic, and yet cunningly evil thing that has hit this earth since Bryan Adams!

    Theres a place called Heaven and a place called Hell,
    A place called Prison, and a place called Jail,
    And Zerby`s on her way to all of them except one...

    (reply to this comment)
    from Elsie
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 11:45

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I have to say with all the talk about being so sacrificial, I wonder that P&M will still denigrate those who are "mostly here for the lifestyle!" More like the deathstyle, dying daily, but to no avail or recognition. I am getting angry with P&M thinking of my parent, who broke my heart, but who by living "that lifestyle" has been devoid of self for the prophets' profit. Even sacrificed her children when we could not take any more. I have to think that anyone still there would have at least earned their recognition for continuing to support them. I guess not. How soon P&M forget what one has done for them!
    (reply to this comment)
    from Vandari, King of the Rats
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 11:22

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    If Zerby and Family leadership were cars.......I'd KEY them.


    (reply to this comment)
    from girl
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 10:16

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    could someone please enlighten me as to what a "vandari" is. thanks.
    (reply to this comment)
    from EyesWideShut
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 09:47

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Somebody mentioned Vandari art and it brought to mind the idea of having a comic strip. This whole thing is just so funny that I think it would be perfect...but I'm not a cartoonist. Ideas for short jokes can be posted and if somebody(s) wants to try to make a four pic comic strip for us, that would be great!

    Title idea: The Vandari Rules.

    There's a play on the last word. Double meaning. Could work. Or just the Daily Vandari; that's if somebody can think of something daily. Or weekly would work too.

    And dude, we have got to get those blood-red hooded sweatshirts rolling. Can't wait to wear them to my nearest Family Home. Hehe.
    (reply to this comment)
    From moonmental
    Monday, October 14, 2002, 06:30

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Bloody brilliant. You make one, I'll wear it. I play basketball every week with some of 'them', I'd love to wear it there and watch their mouths drop...(reply to this comment
    from xhrisl
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 05:30

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Another suggestion,
    What about "Valdari" hooded sweat shirts?
    That way we can maintain our innately infernal temperatures in even the coldest climates of the middle earth.
    P.S. This hollowween I'm going as "Valdari"---vampires have nothing on us! All hail to our new "Queen of the Dammed"---Jules!
    (reply to this comment)
    From monger
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 06:19

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Kickass brilliant. With winter coming up soon, I'd wear a blood-red Valdari hooded sweatshirt every single day! Must buy now! Please!(reply to this comment
    from xhrisl
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 05:22

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Please make "Vandari" T shirts---I'll buy 'em. A deep maroon or blood-red would be the appropriate color.
    This new craze could serve as a way to identify ourselves, and thereby align our forces while we stealtly sneek through the urban masses in search of those that wield the power of "The Keys".
    I can't thank Mama enough for coming up with such a cool name LOL (even if she is a wacko).
    (reply to this comment)
    from Vandari, ruler of the sewer
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 02:07

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Family (pronunced: fam-ill-ee in you human language) "Fam" is taken from you word for famine or famished. "Ill" is from your word for sickness. "Y" is a visual representation of the cause of all this evil: Zerby's insatiable nether regions. Thank you Selvegion for allowing us a peek behind the veil.
    (reply to this comment)
    From EyesWideShut
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 09:13

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hahahaha! This comment was fucking funnnny!(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 02:16

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    TOO GOOD!(reply to this comment
    from ThinksThisIs Cool
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 01:48

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Can we get "Vandari" t_shirts?
    (reply to this comment)
    from EyesWideShut
    Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 00:36

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    What makes me more mad than anything is that M&P keep threatening the "little people" with persecution if they don't do certain things. They're already working double time to please M&P and the other leaders, and their god. If I could get at one of them, I'd be hard pressed not to fuck 'em up really bad. It's hard to read this shit when I still have family in the group. They have to put up with it, all the while thinking of their own exer children. Man, I thought it was Crrrazy when I was in and they say things have changed!--Well, they have! Bad to worse, frying pan into the fire, etc. Pretty soon everybody will be a few fries short of a happy meal! @#%$@%#$*%*#$*@%

    There is a certain humor in it though. They think they've come out with this hot and heavy warning letter, meanwhile it's sublimely rediculous!

    Vandari? My ASS!! Hey, sounds kind of like some kind of alien race. Sure beats the shit outta "exer". Haha!

    BTW, long live the Queen of the Vandari! Hehe.
    (reply to this comment)
    From butterhead
    Friday, October 18, 2002, 10:27

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Last comment was terrific, Sunny! Keep it coming!(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 02:08

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Yeah, Vandari is a damn cool name. I want to be a Vandari when I grow up!
    Interestingly enough, Sunny James and Plagiarizing Endtime Prophets are not the only people to let their imaginations have a great time with that name. Here's a section from the manual of Living Legends, by UNIgames:

    -----
    The Spherical Confederation. An alliance of inhabited systems in the region surrounding our own solar system. The Confederation was formed in the aftermath of the Psynax/Technocracy invasion of the Earth in the early 1980's, which left several of these worlds devastated. The Confederation's primary purpose has been to quarantine the Earth. Members: Vandar (Species: Vandari, Culture: High Tech), Dakodar (Species: Dakodaran, Culture: High Tech), Farash (Species: Farashi, Culture: High Tech), Garog (Species: Garogan, Culture: Mixed), Perator (Species: Peratonian, Culture: High Tech).

    Alien Races

    Vandari
    The Vandari are a humanoid race, with skin ranging from a pale lemon yellow to a deep burnt orange. Their hair is usually dark, falling out rather than turning grey as they age. Their eyes have large, dark pupils. They have no particular special abilities: treat them as humans during character generation. The Vandari are well-disposed toward Earth human, their world having once been liberated from Psynax occupation by the Protectors.

    Dakodaran
    These beings are a race of hive-dwelling rodents. Dakodarans get one less random Power roll.
    ...
    -----


    So what'll it be kids? Now is the time of decision making! Which master will you serve? Are you a Disciple, or have you joined the evil forces of the Spherical Confederation and become just another Vandari slave to the system!? (Or maybe even a hive-dwelling rodent Dakodaran, Fareshi, Garogan, or heaven forbid a Peratonian!) The choice is yours alone! Don't let these VERY REAL SPIRITUAL FORCES steal your birthrights!(reply to this comment
    From butterhead
    Friday, October 18, 2002, 10:29

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Now we know that whoever got this so-called "prophecy", was someone who played computer games! Ha! (reply to this comment
    From Tea
    Friday, October 18, 2002, 10:59

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Diablo was HUGE in WS at the time I left(xmas 2000).(reply to this comment
    From Nan
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 15:05

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Can someone tell me the name of the computer game manufacturer? And can I get a copy of the GN? I'm going to send the GN to the legal cousel for the manufacturer, as it's copyright infringement. What poetic justice if the first law suit is brought by a corporation against the Family for infringing their copyright by their so called "prophesy." Brilliant!

    I'm not kidding about this. I, or one of the other attorneys in my firm, will contact the manufacturer and let them know. Corporations don't take too kindly to trademark/patent/copyright infringement. They also have the resources to hit 'em where it hurts.

    How beautiful would that be? How would Kelly or Zerby explain that to their drones? "Well folks, we ripped off our prophesy from a video game and we got sued. Please, call on the keys and other household appliances..."(reply to this comment
    From RatKing
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 15:23

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Outta luck, I'm afraid. Living Legends is a small game company called UNIgames. From their web page:

    "UNIgames is a game design studio and publisher specializing in paper role-playing games, boardgames, and computer games. Founded in 1997 by Jeff Dee and 'Manda, UNIgames is dedicated to producing games and art that are both innovative and appealing."

    I doubt they would be able to fund anything like this due to their small size and most likely limited resources, if they still exist at all.

    But, you never know.(reply to this comment
    From monger
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 02:27

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Dearest Queens Mama & Peter, I think your WS Endtime Winebearers should immediately be put on partial excom or perhaps even "taken out of the way" for not minimizing ungodly influences in their lives by playing too many violent computer games like this one. It's a real drag in the spirit for me to have to be exposed to people who's very language is influenced by the fiery darts of the evil one. Get your act together Mama. Shape up or shape out!(reply to this comment
    From I Nominate Drag Queen
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 02:30

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Peter Amsterdamned for biggest Drag In The Spirit.(reply to this comment
    From Jean Claude VanDari
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 02:22

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Now I will go fight ze Hevens-Gurl and eemplant zee cheep in her pretty leetle head!! She say SexSexSex but I say SixSixSix! Nyahaha!!!(reply to this comment
    from Anthony
    Friday, October 11, 2002 - 23:42

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Sounds like this should be in the Lighten Up section,gave me a good long and loud laugh LOL!

    Regards,
    Anthony
    (reply to this comment)
    from Ian
    Friday, October 11, 2002 - 23:22

    (Agree/Disagree?)


    What a bunch of shit!!! I'm not sure what to think, these people obviously live in fucking dream world. I wonder if Vandari's are going to have cryptic names on a personal level or just be normal.

    Hello my name is "bob" and I'm a Vandari.

    It's to bad the veterans administration already uses the "VA" name, otherwise the family could do a twelve step program and call it "Vandari's Anonymous"

    Jules, I guess that makes you "Queen of the Damned". When we play "dress up" can I be Lestate?

    "Another fine post by ian"


    (reply to this comment)
    From EyesWideShut
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 01:15

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    No, you see M&P want to paint the Vandari as a race void of individuality; like the Borg. (Read in robotic monotone: "We are Vandari. We will drink your blood. Resistance is futile." It fits doesn't it?) Disguised as ordinary citizens, they appear to have character and social good sense. But when they "morph" they are indistinguishable one from another, their sole purpose being to deceive and devour innocents. Oh, and raise rats, of course. (Didn’t rats follow the Pied Piper, too?)

    The evildoers are shaking in their plastic slippers; of this you can be sure. Thus this “vision/warning” attempts to annul the validity of our personal experiences by saying that we're all caught up in an irrational mass hysteria, trading in the “truth” of our “exceptional upbringing” for a zillion satanic lies—just to quench our bitter thirst for blood. The notion that we might each be coming to our own understandings about our very real experiences, and that we have reached a combined conclusion and intend to pursue simple justice has got to be squelched. Can’t have that, no, no. We--their little girls and boys that busked on the street corners in the dead of winter and handed out tangerines to old folks at Christmas--are "taken over" and are therefore not the "loved ones" we once were; our satanically inspired plight has no significance. The day they give us the benefit of the doubt will be the day hell freezes over.

    Note to current member FGA’s reading this for “informational purposes”: Why would we, who view much of our past as a lie that was foisted upon us--jump at a whole new set of lies? You call yourselves “bearers of the truth” and yet you wouldn’t know truth if it crawled out of your ass and bit you!

    We can't expect group policy and leadership to give us an inch because they know that there are miles and miles of secrets just waiting to come unraveled. It's a matter of survival for them. After all these years, their inbred reality and the 'nth dimension is all they know; all they have. (And, of course, the Keys…and the Swords. But praying to your keys several times a day is not actually against the law, is it? No, didn’t think so.)

    Which leads me to wonder for a fleeting moment: are we wasting our breath here? The young fox is running for its meal while the ol’ rabbit is running for its life. Not the best analogy, I know, because we’re running for our lives, too, --what’s left of them.

    To them there is no two ways about it. Ex-members either take no interest in their past or they are adversaries. There is no room, in their plan of anti-antichrist prep-mania and Millennial world domination, for hundreds of young people that want a little understanding, righteous justice, and a few nasty perverts in stocks--aaaaand maybe just a few pints of blood while we’re at it.

    Ever wonder if Zerby has an affection for her own loyal generation, and doesn't sincerely care if the second generation ever get what they really need? She pretends to care, oh yes! But she's done fuck all about all the memos, requests, detailed letters, sincere heart cries, and dilemmas of the youth. An SGA spoke directly to Peter about this sort of thing not long ago and was surprised to hear his reply (paraphrased): "There are only two kinds of people in the Family. One: the kind that read the letters and follow the Word and want to be 100% no matter what, two: The kind that criticize and doubt. As leadership, our focus is on group number one. We pay close attention to their needs and direct the Family accordingly. Group number two is basically a waste of ours and the Lord's time."

    Again, that’s just the gist; so if you’re the objective judicious type, don’t believe what you read.

    So anybody that is in the group and anticipates, as I once did, that they might be able to make a difference by writing reports, sending in ideas, and gently questioning the way things are done is obviously wasting their time. Life is short. Africans are starving and terrorists are blowing things up!

    And let’s not forget that M&P believe that they and their fellow “mouth pieces” are the very hand of God on earth. If you were God’s chosen one would you feel the necessity to change things in your regime just because a few hundred meaningless peons begged you to?

    They can take their “we value each person’s input” and input it where the sun don’t shine! Yes, I once trusted the Mama-is-so-loving-and-understanding façade. Yes, when it came time to see if she would prove to be all that I wasn’t just fucked over, I was gang raped! Yes, you’re damn right I’m angry about it and YES, I’d like to see her and her entourage abducted by aliens who are especially interested in human orifice research! So sue me!

    (I got a little Vandari there. My apologies. Just let me put on my calm, collected disguise before I go on….(grunt) damn! Getting this mask not to droop under the eyes is a bitch. Superman makes it look so easy! Phone booth, spin, whoosh, presto-dressedo! I blame Hollywood. When I signed up for this whole Vandari thing I neglected to read the fine print. Turns out you have to lug around a big bag every time you have a sucking-the-blood-of-the-innocents gig. (No, the rats don’t carry it for you. They’re just there to be creepy. Sometimes you luck out and find a locker you can stash your shit in while you’re doing your thing because a heinous monster with a backpack is just not where it’s at…but I’m straying from the main point.) So then, when you’re done for the day you have to find the nearest public bathroom and get all, um, disguised. Wig, mask (the glue’s a real hassle), claw clipping, colored contacts, etc. It’s no mean feat squeezing a slimy, lumbering, oozing carcass into a chic business suit. Ohhhh, and the heels suck big time! Yeah, well, the Vandari Soulblood Institute (VSI) seems to think that the more successful and good-looking the disguise, the more innocents we will exterminate, and as they say, “the more, the Vandarier”. Then there’s some kind of point system: 50,000 points gets you a free coffee and donut—or somthin--at the Vandiner on the corner of Krug and Corpuscle Blvd. Kind of a sleazy joint so I don’t really care about the points.)

    Seriously.

    There is an FGA in the group that I still have regular contact with; I respect him as a person and value his opinion. He always seemed to place more importance on his simple belief in God than following say, LJ, for example. He's never been the type to preach Family rhetoric, but listens and offers honest advice. For some time now I've been under the impression that he was "on his way out", moving out of a major Home into a more independent situation, hitting middle age and realizing he didn't really have anything to fall back on in years to come. Viewing his experience and abilities as a means to secure a future for him and his loved ones; he has begun to focus on profit. Etc. All signs--to my eyes--that he was slowly making his move "out".

    Then a short time ago this friend told me that a certain top leader had spent some time at his house for the sole purpose of hearing my friend’s thoughts on changes that needed to be made in the group. As I understand it, they spend a few days in deliberation. I don’t know the details of what they discussed, only that my friend seemed to be fully confident that there was hope for change in the group, confident that the leadership were taking “significant steps”. (Haven’t they been taking “significant steps” in the Middle East for, like, a long time? “Significant steps” is just another way of saying, “Stay away from pizza joints in Jerusalem and tall buildings in NY.”)

    My relatively inexperienced 27-year-old brain can’t quite figure out if my FGA friend possesses some wisdom that I don’t—hardly possible—and will end up being right about seeing positive changes (I’m guessing that would be changes for the aforementioned Family member type one?), or if he was never planning to leave in the first place and has resigned himself to making the best lemonade he can with his lemon because it’s too late to start over. I know for a fact that his Christianity is very important to him, and as Christianity goes, he wears it well. I also know for a fact that he disagrees with a whole lot about the group. I don’t believe he actually practices most of the group’s more outrageous teachings, although that’s conjecture. I chose to believe that, I guess. Technically it’s none of my business but it’s disturbing to imagine the alternative. Compartmentalization: I’ve had years of experience.

    In the end, I still respect my friend because I believe he’s doing the best he can with what he has. He can have his faith, however apart from the schizophrenic nature of the group—their on-again-off-again-hooligan approach when it comes to beliefs, practices, arbitrary revelations, and doctrines (it’s a lucky thing they’re not in charge of the weather)—“progressive” is a word unknown to them and I’ve never seen a shred of evidence that would lead me to believe that they even care about the real issues. The people at the apex have their head in the clouds (or between somebody’s legs!) day in and day out—hearing from the beloved and unknown departed, vain repetitions (didn’t they read that verse?), rendezvous’ in the boudoir with Christ, etc! There are probably even some new ones that I’m lucky enough NOT to be aware of—yet. These are not crimes, I know, and being an advocate of religious freedom (motto: everyone should be free of religion) I realize I can’t discriminate against them for their beliefs. But I can still call the whole thing a load of the stenchiest crock I’ve ever stepped in.

    Give me a skunk any day; at least that way things are black and white.

    Ok, you can stop throwing rotten vegetables now.(reply to this comment
    From conan
    Tuesday, November 19, 2002, 16:33

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Picture this: A rehab center for addicts etc.

    "Hello. My name is Conan and I'm a Vandari."

    Couseler: "and what is a vandari conan??"

    "Well, it's a being which used to suck an imaginary mans penis but who now is addicted to drinking the blood of previous freinds and coworkers"

    Conseler: "And when did you realize you were an addict"

    "Well, the demented bitch who used to lead me and my kind had a 'vision' when she was tripping on some bad acid. She's never wrong you know?"

    Counseler: "I don't appreciate the term bitch in my session. I prefer psychopathic whore. And I'm sure it was good acid to get such a fucked up trip. I don't believe you need to be here. Consider yourself a recovered jesusdickaholic and hope that your former freinds and coworkers come out of the cult their in to join you in ravaging this world of the very useful blood you are addicted to sucking. You're a lucky man to be a vandari and lots of luck to you."(reply to this comment
    from thepersoniamnow
    Friday, October 11, 2002 - 22:54

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Well PTL ppl!
    I am proud to play a small part in the Vangari elite! Are u?
    (reply to this comment)
    From xclusive
    Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 11:59

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    the Vandari Vanguard(reply to this comment
    from porceleindoll
    Friday, October 11, 2002 - 22:07

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I think Zerby, Kelly and the Jesus they speak to have severely misjudged what our reaction to this will be. They don't realise that for the most part we have managed to separate the Family from God and have formed our own beliefs in either Him or whatever we hold to. And so, the threats in this writing, whether they come from 'the mouth of Jesus' or from the mouth of Family leadership hold no water with us, and only serve to give us a greater desire to make our voices heard, not only to society, but to the members still in the group.

    It's very unfair to so highly influence the Family member's attitudes towards us and what we have to say without giving us a chance to speak up and refute it.

    Zerby and Kelly seemed to have missed the point that we are not out to disband or obliterate the Family, nor are we on a rampage to destroy Christianity at large, we simply want acknowledgement, justice, changes made for future generations. It is my belief that in order to have religious freedom it must extend to faiths you don't agree with as well else you become a dictatorship. The Family has created a dictatorship and would love to take over the world with that dictatorship in the name of Jesus and their form of Christianity.

    That is not freedom, it is repression. Yes, negative experiences are discussed here, anger, hurt, frustration, bitternesses, but there is a distinction between airing out the past and the desire to bring the Family to justice for past crimes.

    I wonder why Zerby and Kelly have not opened dialogue here. They repeatedly say they have apologised several times for the past, yet I have not seen one personal nor handwritten apology to any of my siblings, myself, friends, or even a general one posted here on this site for public view, proving that they are indeed sorry. They seem to be so pre-occupied with their selves that they haven't the humility to step off their 'thrones' and face the anger here and take responsibility.

    Of course they have to deny these things happened, of course they have to negate us and our experiences and feelings, because if they honestly acknowledged them, if they took the time to admit to these things, they could get into very serious legal trouble as well as cause a great division within the group.

    The thing is, many present members have said, 'Oh, we're not following Berg and Maria and blah blah, we are following the Lord!' If that is so, then even if Zerby or Kelly admitted to past abuses, if they were to undertake a great apology project, then the members who truly are in the group for Jesus' sake would remain, and they would rid themselves of people who are hanging on 'by the skin of their chinny chin chin'.

    I guess the gauntlet has been thrown and the challenge is out. It's too bad we couldn't find a way to infiltrate and disseminate our side of the story. They claim we are only telling one side and are biased in our presentation, but they have done EXACTLY what they have accused us of here. In every point, one side of the story, lack of honesty, stirring people against them, they have and are doing the same thing.

    And that makes me the most angry, the complete unfairness of it. We are being attacked without a chance to defend, and that makes the group a dictatorship. The invitation has been put out for them to defend themselves here and they have refused, but they have not given us a platform to dialogue with them on their ground.

    So be it, we will not quit until our purpose is accomplished. The Family gives itself a self-made importance by claiming they are the forerunners of persecution and blah blah. They have created a hype of importance to give their members a reason for remaining, otherwise the Family has not much to hold them in.

    To quote Einstein: 'It is a sad day when men live in hope of reward and fear of punishment after death.' Why else are they there?
    (reply to this comment)
    from JoeH
    Friday, October 11, 2002 - 19:37

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Lol! Oh crap! We don't have the keys! Whatever shall we do? Better come running back to the family so they can wash whatever blood our weird cloaks are drenched in with the "blood of the lamb"

    yes, Jules has certainly earned her title of "The Evil One is trying to bring together those who have left the Family".
    (reply to this comment)
    From girl
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 10:20

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    the keys are Loving Jesus acts...hehe.(reply to this comment
    From Vandarling
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 11:19

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    and you know what the disciples are dripping with(reply to this comment
    From Bejesus
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 11:36

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    But only the faithful one who love me as I want it and have revealed it through my prophets of the end regions, not the "pockets of resistance to the truth and the direction who are still rebellious, disobedient, shallow, compromised, and without the fear of Me."(reply to this comment
    from Auty
    Friday, October 11, 2002 - 19:08

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    How sad that they could say this about their own children. Perhaps the blood in the vision of one of their children was caused because of the many wounds that each of us have suffered and still suffer from the years of physical, sexual, emotional & educational abuse. We are still bleeding & in pain. In order for these to heal we need retribution or at the very least some compensation.

    Jules, I just wanted to say that your courage to host this site amazes me. You know you're making an impression if you've had a GN written about you! Wow! How lucky are you?

    So let's keep pinching the quarter so they continue to squeek!!!! We're just getting started!
    (reply to this comment)
    From Jules
    Friday, October 11, 2002, 19:30

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    So true Auty. Of course Zerby and Kelly didn't think of that interpretation.
    I think this was aimed at all of the people who participate here, not me in particular.
    (reply to this comment
    From JoeH
    Friday, October 11, 2002, 19:38

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    aha, now you know how it feels to get put in the limelight!(reply to this comment
    From Jules
    Saturday, October 12, 2002, 14:48

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    LHM, what a sobering lesson. :-p(reply to this comment
    from Auty
    Friday, October 11, 2002 - 19:06

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    How sad that they could say this about their own children. Perhaps the blood in the vision of one of their children was caused because of the many wounds that each of us have suffered and still suffer from the years of physical, sexual, emotional & educational abuse. We are still bleeding & in pain. In order for these to heal we need retribution or at the very least some compensation.

    Jules, I just wanted to say that your courage to host this site amazes me. You know you're making an impression if you've had a GN written about you! Wow! How lucky are you?

    So let's keep pinching the quarter so they continue to squeek!!!! We're just getting started!
    (reply to this comment)
    From tigress
    Thursday, October 17, 2002, 07:40

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    I am sitting in the office at work. Gotta stop reading for now, because I almost burst out laughing at some comments - but you guys are great!(reply to this comment
    From kreed
    Wednesday, November 06, 2002, 16:41

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    well since all of the people i cared about in the Family are already out.....i could really care less how delusional they become.....well the only sad thing is that my little 15 yr old bro is still stuck in the group......and is still being brainwashed by my father........the poor child actually believes me and my sisters are leading meaningless lives....and that he is going to be one the "Enditme Prophets" if he stays loyal and doesn't give up his crown.
    It's really sad that a 15 yr old is thinking like that.......instead of "i'm a smart kid.......i should probably go to school and be the first in my family to earn a highschool dimploma!"(reply to this comment
    From HL_Warren
    Sunday, November 17, 2002, 05:06

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Well guys, this is what it finally comes down to. I'm a student at UCLA, and as any law student knows... "If you cannot disprove someone's evidence, you must strive to disprove their character." By their malicious lies and attacks against our character, they can dismiss anything we have to say against their practices. I find it sad and deplorable to say the least, that my little brothers and sisters have no choice but to hear their own blood be depicted as demons from Hell. I hope parents in the family will recognize this and speak out against it, showing that they still believe in their sons and daughters. It's hard to imagine that after devoting a considerable portion of your life to what you once thought was a worthy cause, you could have the same people who you once looked up to call you the foremost tool of Satan! It's fucking pathetic. You think they could come up with something better. Oh well, desperation is a stinky cologne. Everyone can see it coming. I just hope one day the people responsible for all this will pay for the harm they've caused others by their supidity and insanity...

    P.S. FUCK YOU BERG, YOU INCESTUOUS CHILD MOLESTOR. (reply to this comment
    From Bella
    Sunday, November 17, 2002, 13:09

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    Hey Hey - a fellow Bruin! UCLA Law though, wow, congratulations! I'm still working on my undergrad here. Did you do your undergrad at UCLA as well?(reply to this comment
    From hello from Los Angeles
    Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 17:45

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Bella,

    I don't know if I know you. I was Lamont in Japan. Just thought I'd send a shout-out since I'm in LA. I work in finance at Deutsche Bank in downtown LA.

    Cheers.

    Nahchey (aka Lamont)(reply to this comment
    From Bella
    Tuesday, December 03, 2002, 18:23

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    I never met you in Japan Nahchey, but I know many people who know you (Allen, Katya, David, etc) – small world. I believe you may know my sister (Porceleindoll). BTW how do you like LA as compared to NY? (reply to this comment
    From surf boy
    Sunday, March 26, 2006, 15:08

    (Agree/Disagree?)
    well first time I write anything and basiclly I was wondering if there is anyone ex member in mexico (cancun ) or anyone willing to come work down here I work in a hotel and I need people I am chief of sports so let me know (reply to this comment
    From nahchey
    Wednesday, January 08, 2003, 18:53

    (
    Agree/Disagree?)
    Bella,

    NYC is way cooler but LA has better waves and mountains.

    write me back at work nahchey.storer@db.com

    nahchey (aka lamont)(reply to this comment

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