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from Jailbird Friday, February 08, 2008 - 02:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Very sorry for your loss. Loss of loved ones impacts me very profoundly as one of the primary triggers for my PTSD is abandonment given what I went through in childhood. I imagine it could/would be for many of us depending on the age and degree of seperation from one's family. Dealing with loss is very difficult. Losing a loved one, in any capacity is a small taste of losing one not dissimilar to death. Generally there are 5 stages of grieving that we go through, in order to work through a loss or stressful situation. There's no set length of time that any of these stages last for, it depends on the person and the tools and support that they have in dealing with the loss. Also the stages aren't experienced in strict sequence, in otherwords failed bargaining may fuel the anger cycle etc. ... But generally they go as follows. 1. DENIAL: We can deny that the loss has occured, withdraw from our usual social contacts and go into isolationism. Conversly, we can seek out social support to an extreme. 2. ANGER: The grieving person can become furious at the person(s) who inflicted the loss, even if the person is dead, or at the world for letting it happen. He or she could even be angry with themselves for letting it happen, even if realistically there was/is nothing that the individual could do. 3. BARGAINING: This is common during romantic breakups, but also during losses like death etc. ... The person experiencing the loss attempts to control the pain of loss thinking that if he or she does such and such perhaps the loss will be taken away. Sometimes denial, anger and bargaining occur at the same time during the dissolution of a long term relationship. 4. DEPRESSION: The person feels numb inside. During this stage anger and denial sometimes persist, along thoughts of bargaining, but the over-arching emotion is one of hopelessness and depression. 5. ACCEPTANCE: Eventually the anger, loss, and denial taper off and the person accepts the reality of the loss. Oh, that it were only that simple. ... This general reaction to loss is in our subconcious occurs for even the smallest of things. We may cycle through them rapidly when loosing a parking spot. Or a traumatic event with a friend, wife, sibling, criminal justice system, loss of a job, anywhere from months to years to work through. After experiencing any profound loss it is important to find ways to re-invest in life. Therapists call this grief work, and in actuallity it is the most important part of getting better after any truamatic loss. One definition of Grief Work is summarized by the acronym TEAR. T = To accept the reality of the loss. E = To experience the pain of the loss. A = To adjust to the new environment without the lost object. R = Re-invenst in one's new reality. This grief work is difficult and can be done with some support structure, but it's a lonely path. It generally begins after the calls from friends have taperd off, the court case is closed, things should be heading back to "normal" etc. ... This is where the most difficult work is done, but where the healing actually begins. Notice that the really difficult grief work starts after the ACCEPTANCE stage is completed. Understanding that the 5 stages of grief exist and what they are is just the first step to dealing with grief. I think the TEAR acronym is much more helpful in realizing what must be done to re-invest in life. Simply acknowledging that 5 stages of grief exists only helps so much, Grief Recognition, Expression and Resolution are very key to moving forward. Accesing our emotions is extremely important, writing about them can help. Growing up there was little room for expressing sadness, anger, loss etc., because we were meant to be "soldiers" etc., ... Plus, if your situation was similar to mine you had no parents to help you through a loss, which in itself was very profound loss. My thoughts are with you. Every happiness holds with it the possibility of heartbreak. However, in life, there are magic moments, moments of honest, accomplishment, love beauty, they await each of us. Yeats referred to "moments of glad grace," which I have always thought are beautiful words. Live for those moments of glad grace, they await you. (reply to this comment)

From stedneil_king Sunday, February 10, 2008, 17:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi Jailbird, Your message was an awakening. Those stages that you mentioned are happening to me all at the same time. Its weird and its very hard to deal with. But in some point, I have learned to condition my mind and control my emotion. I am suppressed to show the trouble inside and yet I have to be composed all the time and be prudent. I know that I have done almost everything and there is only one thing I never I have not...that is to LOVE myself and give myself the RESPECT. I forgot to love and respect myself when I fell in love with my 8yr-girlfriend and became my 1 month-wife. I don't long for a happy moments in life anymore..Every happy occasion comes with sad aftermath. All I ask for now is just a little pain, a peace of mind, and some sleep. But I want to clear out that I don't regret that I got married...I just regret how it turned out to be. Thank you for your wonderful message. I can deny the fact that I have learned a lot and it have given me a clear view on whats happening to me. I tend to think that I am starting to become crazy. :) Thanks again, Sted(reply to this comment)

From Jailbird Sunday, February 10, 2008, 18:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi Sted, 8 years is a very long time. I relate to the lack of peace, sleep etc. ... Believe me I do. I suffer from chronic insomnia much of the time and it's compounded by emotional stress. I doubt that you're going crazy in the clinical sense. But I related to the trauma of loosing someone, I felt similarly when I had been with a woman for 2 years and then it broke up in kind of a bogus fashion. It would be impossible to successfully deal with the type of loss you mention without a great deal of emotional pain, anger, denial cycling through the stages etc. ... This is compounded by the fact that the relationship was so long term and that you pressure yourself to be composed etc. ... I broke up with a girlfriend one time, she was over one night when we had our breakup talk. I still love her, like I love every respectful woman I've ever been with. We slept together that night, in the morning we spoke. She took my hand and placed it on her breast and wanted to be intimate one last time, I cried, and said I couldn't because it would just remind me of what I was loosing. I tried to say some brave words, she looked at me straight in the eye and said, "It's okay to feel sad. It's okay to feel hurt. It's okay to express that." I'm glad that whatever I wrote resonated and helped you to understand what you were / are going through. You're not alone in this regard, it may help to work with a grief counselor or therapist. I also think it shows a great deal of emotional maturity that you don't regret everything about the relationship etc. ... I am very leery of people who speak badly of people they ostensibly were close to in an emotional sense, especially when it's a pattern, if you allowed yourself to love someone, there must have been moments of glad grace and things that were beautiful about the situation and person. The fact that it was so good when it was good compounds the pain. I relate to what you wrote about failing to LOVE one's self and RESPECT one's self. What I've come to recognize in myself is that I have an incredible need to be loved. That conflicts with the fact that I've experienced so little true love in this lifetime. When one is in a relationship, and it's good, it's very easy for one to begin to define oneself in terms of that relationship. A certain degree of emotional co-dependence results in any relationship, and indeed, on needs to trust, love, give and be vulnerable, that's what love is about in my understanding. However, until one has done the hard work of dealing with the issues in one's own life, the degree to which one defines oneself by a relationship can be unhealthy. In one situation I was in I found myself making compromises on items that really were important to me, because the relationship meant so much to me, because of my need to be loved and experience love. Only months later within the context of other friendships and relationships did I come to a clearer understanding of what "normal" behavior in this regards could or should be. By normal I don't mean embracing popular ideas of relationships etc. .., as some of those ideas are very unhealthy. But by "normal" I perhaps mean what one could or should come to expect if one has a good internal model of respectful and healthy relationships are meant to be. The problem I encounter, and I expect others with my background do, is that I have very little basis for understanding what "normal" or healthy emotional relationships are, working with a therapist helps. I'm pretty sure that it's unhealthy to sleep around a bunch when you're supposed to be in a committed relationship with another human being. But having a counter-identity, or virulently opposing certain models of human relationships doesn't mean that one has a good working model. In fact the anger inherent to a counter-identity, can and probably will serve as a very destructive force in any meaningful relationship. As someone who has battled depression and even thoughts of suicide at times, I relate to the sentiment of not longing for happy moments in life because of the expectation that there will be a sad aftermath, as you expressed. Grief work, is just that work. One should not expect that one will work through a loss or pain quickly, especially one as profound as a relationship that has spawned 8 years. In fact, those who reject the emotions of sadness, substitute them for anger, refuse to be vulnerable and introspective during these times, or turn to unhealthy behavior patterns such as addiction, obsessive behavior, etc., are at a very high risk of repeating patterns of unhealthy relationships which bring more pain. I always ask myself what I've learnt from a relationship when it terminates. I generally learn some things about myself and some things about others. When a relationship ends honorably as the one outlined above, with communication and sincerity, I've always felt good, stronger and happy for the experience. When there's dishonor, disrespect etc., I always have felt like it was a waste, but even that's a trap because dismissing it as a wastes causes me to perhaps not understand what aspects of my psychology made me vulnerable to or seeking relationships or associations of that nature. The answers are not simple, but in my experience it comes back to this idea of having an incredible need to be loved, without the tools or even a good understanding of what love is or should be. This harkens back to your point about needing to love oneself and respect oneself which I couldn't agree with more. At the risk of sounding patronizing I will suggest to you that life contains happiness. There are honest and respectful women who will love you for who you are and treat you with respect and tender affection. Even if the relationships don't last forever, you may be happier or better for having experienced them. Beyond that maintain friendships without need, as it's natural for one's identity to be invested in a romantic relationship, but it's very unhealthy when one's identity becomes over-invested in said relationship, this risk can be mitigated by good friendships outside of the romantic context. Witting a journal of your emotions can help. At times I'm very scared of my emotions, but writing about them helps. When you are ready you will re-invest in life and you may find that there are moments of glad grace in store for you. Be well, be honest, be human my fellow traveler.(reply to this comment)

from Phoenixkidd Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Aw so sad Stedneil, it always amazes me when people break up and they say their entire time being married was wasted, ? I guess I am just too stuck on fun to even worry or feel that way, I enjoy every minute I get with the one I love, because I know it may not last. I always say life and love are like the Grand Canyon Railroad, It's about the ride not about the destination, although many people think it's the other way around. Trust if you are an honest, decent person, which I believe many ex-fam 2nd gen are, because of our hardship, you will definitely find someone that will love you back and give you many good times. Trust me there are many out there, with good hearts that deserve your company--keep believing but don't stress, it's hard to do, but the more confident you are with yourself the more attractive you become--it's amazing but true. (reply to this comment)

From stedneil_king Friday, February 08, 2008, 01:17 (Agree/Disagree?) to: Phoenixkidd Thanks! Many thanks for a very good comment. I appreciate you saying your thoughts. its very hard to live life without the one you truly love..the more I realize how i love her makes me feel more pain because the love I have for her reminds me of how painful it was and I think the love will always be here forever..but its ok. at some point I believe that God made me stronger because He knows someone like her would come and hurt me so much. thanks again, Sted(reply to this comment)