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Getting Through : Dealing

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from Rain Child - Monday, July 18, 2005
accessed 1596 times

I've been reading the article and comments about the Victor Programme, and I have something to say.

The Victor Program tried to be imported from Japan to my home country, Australia, but that never really happened because we were too concerned with the threat of imminent persecution. However, we were touched by it, and many of our friends were sent to Japan, or, earlier, Macau to partake.

What I wanted to say, is that to an outsider, it sounds as though you all survived concentration camps. I know the adults were into senseless control and excessive discipline, but I have to say that there have been many boarding schools with much nastier more sadistic masters than the shepherds we had in the family. Many people outside the Family grew up being routinely raped, burned with cigarettes, (I know a woman whose mother purposely threw a pot of boiling water on her off the stove when she was three, scarring her for life.)

Then there are the many victims of war crimes, and the people living in refugee camps, having family members tortured and destroyed in front of them, seeing their children starve, and living in constant fear of violent death. To hear some of you talk, anyone would think you were survivors of these kinds of atrocities. I'm not trying to downplay the kind of pain that is left from mistreatment during childhood. We're all still trying to find our way in the world after our very unusual upbringing.

I'm just saying that maybe some people out there are wallowing in the bad parts so much that they've completely distorted it in their minds so that all they can remember is the bad. I still carry with me memories of adults who really cared and took time with me to talk and understand, misguided though they may have been. And the work wasn't really as bad as all that. I got a great sense of purpose from my ministry of childcare, and later from going to India and working with the children in the slums. Besides, everyone's got to do housework. You can't get by without it.

True, I would love to erase much of my over-sexualized childhood education, and I would love not to carry around my burden of guilt and my inferiority complex which I have as a result of always being humble and meek and taking the lowly seat, but every single person in the world has baggage. I know it's nice to be able to tell our horror stories, I'm not really against that, but it scares me when I read people saying things like they want to blow them all away with a shotgun or see them all put into prison. Those are the people I grew up with! In a sense, they'll always be my family, and most of them are good, caring people. Those of you who are allowing this hatred to consume you are not going to be able to move on at all.

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from SeanSwede
Monday, July 23, 2007 - 13:27


You see, the thing that made it so bad and evil is that we where supposed to be a christian organisation. The Family COG preached love, forgiveness, kindness, goodness, temperence etc, etc and in their very backyard they were hypocrates of the worst kind. That is partially what really messed up our minds and gave us doubts. As far as I know, every person who went to the 2`nd session VC camp in Matsumoto are either not alive today or are no longer members of The Family International aka COG aka The Family of love.

Ive moved on with my life. My life has been scarred and my body still carries scars from that past life. It will be a part of me and a reminder to me for the rest of my life. I would like to make some good come out of all of the bad that I experienced. I am writing a book about my 90 days at the Victor Program in Matsumoto, Japan. Although I went to the Victor Program twice, it wasnt like the first one that I went to.

I will be returning to Matsumoto to take photo`s. Visiting the place again will hopefully help bring back some more memories for the writing of my book.

By the way the book will be called "90 DAYS".
(reply to this comment)

from Rain Child
Monday, July 25, 2005 - 19:13

I've just discovered the "Personal Accounts" and I have to take back most of what I said above after reading the horriffic details of the Matsumoto Victor Camp. I had no idea it was that bad. My apologies go out to all who suffered in this terrible way.
(reply to this comment)
From Randi
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 06:43


It's good that you basically retracted your artical, because unless you've been in the victors, I don't think you have a right to say anything...I get your point though, but I wouldn't go there. I was a victor for a year and went through some other programs...looking back, It's hard to even acknowledge myself that those atrocities occured. If it was just a few people with those memories, maybe you could question the source etc, but there are so so many of us, which implies that we're not all telling tall tales. What I experienced and what I saw done to my friends was not human. Sure my experiences will never compare to those who suffer in war camps etc..but that should not minimize what I lived through. I think what you're trying to say is that we can choose to be victims for the rest of our lives, or we can choose to be triumphant. I chose the latter!!(reply to this comment

from conan
Friday, July 22, 2005 - 16:35

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I don’t mean this to start a heated debate with you, but when you say that some of us only seem to remember the bad, you’re right. Except that it’s not like I’m blocking out happy memories, I just don’t remember having any moments that would fall under the category ‘happy memories’. I simply don’t once remember being happy as a kid. Sure, I remember laughing at things and shit like that, but being genuinely happy for any significant amount of time during my youth doesn’t seem to have existed for me in any way shape or form.

I never went to victor camp and as such didn’t suffer to the extent of many others. However, that doesn’t mean that my childhood was good, or by any means pleasant. And I’m not talking about not having enough money to buy toys that I wanted or not being allowed to listen to music or watch movies or any of that shit. While all of that holds true for my personal history, those play only a small roll in the greater picture of what has become my largely repressed youth.

The memories that I do have are painful to recall. They involve the daily psychological torture and encompassing emotional abuse which I believe permanently damaged my very fragile child-aged psyche to the point that I’m only now learning to overcome. I remember never being good enough for my ‘uncles’ and aunties’. I remember them reminding me of that fact whenever they could. I remember being routinely beaten far more severely than I ever deserved for such insignificant things as using more than three sheets of toilet paper (not a joke) and by ‘direct disregard for rules and regulations’ because I was yielding to ‘familiar spirits’ I caused the toilet to back up and cause them to have to spend ‘God’s money’ to call in a plumber, when had I learned to be more ‘yielded to Him’ the whole scenario would never have happened.

That’s one isolated incident which I look back at now and laugh. But I remember that I couldn’t sit comfortably for several days after that incident because of the severity of the lashing I received at the hands of a ‘loving uncle’ and then being told with a sincere smile of sadomasochistic proportions that it “hurts me more than it hurts you”.

Again, that was just in a single afternoon of ‘normal’ Family living. That doesn’t go into the encouraged sex sessions (maybe not abuse in the strictest sense, but I don’t know any ‘normal’ parents who encourage their five and six year old son to have sex with a 13 or 14 year old girl because their incestuous, perverted, sex-driven maniac of a leader recommended it) and mandated prayer and ‘hearing from the Lord’ sessions where if I failed to have a connection with the Almighty or provide sufficient depth in my daily OHR, then along came Uncle Sado again with his paddle or belt or bamboo cane or whatever device tickled his fancy that particular day to ‘hurt himself’ at my (and my ass’s) expense.

Then there were the random dining experiences where the ‘loving uncle’ would walk around and around the dining hall (large enough to feed some 100+) looking for one of us kids who would, gasp, god forbid, be slouching or resting our elbows on the table (we all ate at benches of courses so there were no backs or arm rests). The consequences for those serious violations was swift and sudden; a knee to the offending slouched back with no warning, and the offending elbow would be grabbed and slammed down on the table with such force that the arm was rendered numb till such time as it was forced to regain its feeling as the offending body it was attached to (mine) was then forced to wash the homes lunch or dinner dishes by itself.

These isolated incidents are by no means horror stories. They aren’t the worst experiences that happened to me by far but they were ones that I took to be, for lack of a better word, normal. I didn’t see these punishments and beatings etc. as being abuse or of destroying my self confidence and making me utterly dependable on those senior (in spiritual status) to myself and looking for them to guide me through every step of every day. But that’s exactly what it was.

It was the systematic breaking down of my personal defenses so that when I was then asked to go ‘witness for Jesus’, I’d paste on my own grin and pretend with all that I had in me that I sincerely wanted to be doing what they asked of me, when all they were doing was using me (and of course the other children around me…I’m not alone in these I can assure you) as their ‘show and tell’. I would do exactly what they wanted me to out of fear while they would proudly show me off as what a great job they were doing with this young boy, who, if he had his way, would be some little horrible ‘juvenile delinquent’ had it not been for their care and guidance.

I don’t know about you, but looking back, I had one fucked up childhood. It may not compare to a concentration camp or a genocide survivor or many other horrific walks of life that exist on this planet. But to be fair, those who survive those type ordeals aren’t told every day of their lives that they’re living in ‘heaven’ and everywhere else compared to our ‘home sweet home’ is filled with diabolical, satanic horrors such as my mind couldn’t possibly conceive.

But fuck, what I wouldn’t give to have been able to have had a choice in any aspect of my youth. Anything! From which country to live in, to being able to go to a ‘normal’ school and be schooled in ‘normal’ life with REAL uncles and aunts who were my flesh and blood and actually cared what became of me. Fuck, if I could at least have had the opportunity to think for myself, I’d be that much happier today.

(reply to this comment)
from Little Storm
Friday, July 22, 2005 - 04:57

Average visitor agreement is 1.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 1.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 1.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 1.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 1.5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Hello Rain,

I would have to agree with you. While I know and experianced the fact that there was abuse, in the family, I don't agree with this desire to destroy them. I know lots of nice family people some of them my own family, and while I may feel they are very misguided, their free to do their own thing.
(reply to this comment)

From neez
Friday, July 22, 2005, 21:15

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(

lol... Rain Child? Little Storm?

Is that a teepee I see in the distance?(reply to this comment

from Phoenixkidd
Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 17:18

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I came across your article today, and quite frankly I am stunned and saddened by your stance on the victor camps. You just seem to brush away the fact that not only where these adults inflicting physical abuse on these children but also psychological abuses. I was told I went to the victor training camp, the second session in Matsumoto. True it wasn't a concentration camp, we were fed, and housed in an old factory in the dead of winter but still it was livable. What you seem to just push aside in your judgements is the religious pounding of psycho babble we all had to put up with. I was told I had an evil spirit inside of me, and so did many others. I literally at 13 years of age thought I was possessed and wanted so desperately to be cured of what I had, I contemplated running away so many times back home and just hitchhiking my way back. It's this type of psychological and religious teaching that can drive someone crazy!! I sometimes feel I can't even think straight when it comes to putting God into perspective to world history and certainly with some of the events that have happened in my life. I am a witness that my best friend there showed me his butt and it was just one big bruise, completely black and blue about 1 foot square! He couldn't even sit down without almost crying. Try that for an eyeful.
(reply to this comment)
from If I may....
Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 15:20

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

...quote from another article on this site,

"Just because children in the Family did not have their eyes seared out with hot irons or were not locked in their rooms for the first 14 years of their lives does not mean that they did not suffer abusive situations."

"If “someone else having it worse” is the criterion for what is abusive and what is not, then anything short of baby rape, sexual slavery with pregnancy resulting in death, genocide and physical mutilation should be considered acceptable forms of behavior."
(reply to this comment)

From lisa
Friday, July 22, 2005, 05:09

Thats very true and quite funny. Something has been really pissing me off recently. Admist all the genuine stories of abuse, are a few that are whinging about stupid petty things like having to do JJTs. Why do so many ex-sgas seem to think that if they hadn't lived in the fam they would have lead charmed perfect lives? They might of still been poor and had compleatly fucked up lives. Being in the family doesn't ensure you had a terrible childhood, just like being in the 'system' (lol) wouldn't ensure that they had perfect a one. Though it probably tipped the balance a little.Anyway thats my little rant(reply to this comment
From nameless
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 19:25


I don't think that "having to do JJTs" is a "stupid petty thing" when that is how you spend all your day except for devotions time, and you are a child who should have been going to school.

I grew up before the "school vision," so maybe that's a difference with your experience of JJTs, but I would be aghast if my 12-year-old nephew had to spend his days like that, like I did. At that age my days were only punctuated by being summoned to the leader's room for him to have a "quickie". Courtesy of Claire Borowik, who was then his wife and who was supposed to be taking care of me.

Living like that during the formative years of puberty can do a number on you.(reply to this comment

From Rain Child
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 05:37

Sorry, no disrespect meant. That's an awful childhood you lived through. I can't even imagine it. I didn't read your comment properly, so involved was I in my own embarrassment. (reply to this comment
From Rain Child
Wednesday, September 13, 2006, 22:41

(Groan)...Did you HAVE to bring my first article back into the public arena?(reply to this comment
From Well,
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 09:22

you could always pull it. (reply to this comment
From vixen
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 10:03


^^^ I would advise against that, actually. I think it's interesting to have a record of how individuals' thinking changes as they work through issues related to our background. Articles such as these are important, IMO.

(reply to this comment

From Except that,
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 11:08


people don't really look at these things historically, they comment on them as if they were new, ignoring the fact that she instantly reversed her stance. It's a quesiton of whether preserving history is more important than her current opinion. It seems she's chosen to let it stand. It was just a suggestion in any case. (reply to this comment

From Rain Child
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 13:18

Well, I reversed my stance on the Victor Programs because I was talking out my ass...I'd met teens who'd been through them and they'd always bragged about it like it was something wonderful, (Stockholm Syndrome I guess) I didn't realise it was so bad until I read that story about the Matsumoto one.

But I haven't really reversed my feelings about not wishing any harm on my former siblings, and apart from that, I find this article an interesting history lesson to me. At this time I had basically not read any of the stories on here and I didn't know much real bad about The Family except my gut feelings that I couldn't live in it. This site was what helped me make sense of things and allowed me to bring back my repressed memories so that I could understand my own feelings and allow myself to move on.

So you're seeing me pre-all of that.(reply to this comment
From Dissonant
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 13:56

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Well that will teach you to talk out of your ass. Besides, when talking out of your ass nearly impossible to pronounce the letters "R", and "L", which makes it difficult to say sentences like;

"Lenny realized, though long too late, the taste of relish realy lingers".

I hope you have learned your lesson.

(reply to this comment

From Rain Child
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 14:41

If this article is going to keep coming back to haunt me like bad tabouli, I suppose I will erase it...but I like reading everyone's comments. Nobody was as nasty to me as I've seen them be to other people expressing similar sentiments...thanks guys.(reply to this comment
From Well,
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 13:25

I like you better now. (reply to this comment
From Rain Child
Thursday, September 14, 2006, 13:29

:))(reply to this comment
from No more excuses
Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 03:14

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Definitions of excuse:

ex·cuse Pronunciation Key (k-skyz)
tr.v. ex·cused, ex·cus·ing, ex·cus·es
1. To explain (a fault or an offense) in the hope of being forgiven or understood
2. To serve as justification for
3. An explanation offered to justify or obtain forgiveness.
4. A reason or grounds for excusing

TF tells its youth that "compared to third world countries, you kids had a great life". That would be like Bush telling the 9/11 victims families that compared to genocide in Africa, their relatives didn't have it so bad. Although this may be true in is still an inappropriate response. Are people supposed to apologise for being raised and a world where genocide is not a normal occurrence? The "it's all relative" line just doesn't cut it in modern society. Did the Catholic church use that excuse when confronted by its priests abuse of children? What TF fed you is and EXCUSE. A pathetic excuse because they can no longer deny or explain away what happened. If we didn't have hard evidence (Dito book, etc) they would probably say that none of it ever happened. So now they finally admitted it and tossed out a weak apology. Their "apology" being unacceptable and patronising. They write "If some of you were uncomfortable with sexual experiences in the past, we apologize". Uncomfortable? Yes, for a child to have a man's penis in her small body is rather uncomfortable....uncomfortable, painful, and traumatic. But that is not how I feel...Try furious, humiliated and torn.

Comparing yourself to others is something you do in order to empower yourself so that you can move on personally. It is not something that your leadership shoves down your throat as and excuse for wrongful behavior.

"What I wanted to say, is that to an outsider, it sounds as though you all survived concentration camps"
This is true. To those raised in the western world, what we lived through would be considered and atrocity and in total violation of human rights. I have friends who grew up "normally" and were abused as children. They too are shocked. The reason being, that their cases of abuse were generally behind closed doors where all involved knew it was wrong. This went far beyond an "over-sexualized childhood education". TF instigated and reinforced the systematic abuse of children. From beatings till the child stopped crying to sexual abuse to humiliation to sensory deprivation to denying its children an education and on and on the list goes. These things are wrong! Whether or not worse things happened in other places in the world...So what? Does that right every lesser degree of wrong? Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse.

It is also true of when an outsider sees a page of the Davidito book. Is this because those on the outside don't understand that it was "done in a loving manner"? (see Children explain "My Little Fish" to reporter (2.8MB) — From ABC 20/20 "To Bring Her Children Home" at

Why do we want TF behind bars? Crimes were committed against us and our peers and we want to see justice served. TF continues to protect and relocate known pedophiles. TF's leadership is comprised of some of the worst pedophiles in the group. TF's leaders, Zerby and Smith, committed terrible crimes against children. Do you think all these people have just changed?

And all those "nice people" you speak of, well they stood by and did nothing while crimes were being committed against children. These people stayed on through the publication of the Dito Book, My Little Fish etc. Guilty by Association. Guilty of witnessing crimes and not reporting them to authorities.

The Family has not changed. The Family cannot (internally) admit that Berg's teaching on sex and children were wrong because the "sheep" would then start to question his other teachings. The Family created an environment where it permissible to have sex with children. I believe that some people, who might not have thought to do so otherwise, just got a taste for this sort of perversion. These people are still out there. These people who should be in jail receiving therapy are still out there in close contact with young children. They and TF must be held responsible.

I could go on for hours but as you say you are "fresh out" and have been free of TF's indoctrination long enough to realise certain things. No offence, really, ten years ago I was you. Educate yourself and try to see things as they really are. Find your voice and enjoy your freedom. Good luck and I wish you the bes
(reply to this comment)
From Rain Child
Thursday, July 21, 2005, 05:59

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Thankyou, that was a very good and informative answer. I must admit, I do remember some of the things you're talking about. I didn't personally live through them, but I remember things that I know are wrong. I've often wondered whether my mother and the other adults remember them too. They act as if they don't, but if I remember them, how can they not? I was a bit frightened by some of the angrier people on this site, but your comment makes sense and rings true. I was actually sexually abused myself when I was eight, but the man responsible was just a babe joining and he was immediately excommunicated, so I don't blame the Family for that. The experience affected me for the rest of my life because I was told that I was flirting and leading him on, and only recently when I talked it over with my Mum did I tell her that I've always felt that she sided against me in the incident. She was shocked to hear I felt that way. I would prefer, of course, if she'd called the police and had him sent to prison. that's what I would have done if it had been my eight year old. (After I scratched out his eyeballs and removed his nuts.) There you go! Anger! Guess I've got some too. Okay, I apologise. If you guys have really been through all that, of course you're not okay with it. It's just that I had a pretty sheltered upbringing for the most part in The family, and out of all my friends I grew up with, I've never heard stories like the ones you all tell here. But I didn't mean to make light of your pain.(reply to this comment
Thursday, July 21, 2005, 09:21

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(

Rain Child (I like your nickname, BTW), I am so sorry for what you went through and that you were "told that I was flirting and leading him on." I understand how that can affect you. The sexual and psychological abuse that I suffered has also had an enduring effect.

The Family was so cruel and lacking in insight when it pulled the "Flirty Little Teens Beware card" on children that it socialized in that sexually charged environment. The "Look of Love," etc., mixed with the "unselfishness" and "sharing" ethos. Because of the environment we were raised in, we may have unwittingly sent signals that to an outsider (or even an adult raised differently) meant we were flirting. The adults should have had the maturity to control themselves, or even better, to not raise us with that confusing sexual moral (or lack of). We were deliberately put at risk, tragically unprotected, then finished off by being blamed.

(reply to this comment

From fragiletiger
Friday, July 22, 2005, 05:01

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I so agree, it so pissed me off when my 'teachers' would say well it was your fault you shoulden't have flirted. Then I would have to read that stupid letter, about that little girl, who ' tempted' a old man in her home bah humbug(reply to this comment

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