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Getting Through : Dealing
Comments to friends still in TF | from Blondie_B78 - Thursday, January 20, 2005
accessed 2263 times Yesterday I read through the testimonials on www.myconclusion.com . I was surprised to see that I know approx 1/3 of the people who have posted so far. As the "post a comment" option is not available I thought I’d post my comment here. Hopefully some of you will read it. First of all, I cannot speak for all ex-members only for myself. Some may agree with me and some will undoubtedly disagree.
IMO, I think that there is a huge misconception of what the majority of SG exers who participate on these sites are trying to achieve. Please do not assume that all ex-members want to rip your kids away and stop you from doing as you choose with your life. There are many SG posters on movingon who went through raids in various countries (myself included) and would never wish such a thing on you or your kids. My first child was born while I was still in TF and the possibility of losing her because of persecution was one of my biggest fears. I have not read any posts or even newspaper articles that are accusing you SG members still in TF of being unfit parents. Nobody is saying that you are sexually or physically abusing your children. Nobody is saying you don’t love them. For many of us (IMO most of us) this is more about the past than the present. Why worry about the past? Well, our past affects our present thus it is relevant.
As a child I was abused in TF. I am not trying to drag the people involved into court because I have put the matter behind me. I have a family and a life and I don't want to dredge up the past - this is my personal decision.
When I was removed from my home during "persecution" I emphatically denied abuse. Why? Because I had no desire to be removed from my parents (who I love dearly) and because I believed that my case was isolated. Later on I found out that each of my siblings had to a greater or lesser degree similar experiences.
When I left TF I discovered a large online community of SG ex-members who were seeking recognition and redress because of abuses suffered as children. Some were taking or talking about legal action. I also talked to close friends who had left TF and asked them about their experiences - some had experienced abuse - some had not. I recently got in touch with a girl who had been my best friend when I was 16. She suffered severe abuse as a child at the hands of several people and commented how surprised she was to hear that I had gone through similar things.
Sexual abuse is embarrassing. It's not something that you talk about, for the most part, not even to your closest friends. You try to forget. You try to tell yourself that it never happened. That is why most people who "come out" about it are usually well into adulthood. Even then it’s hard. You don’t want to negatively affect your family, you don’t want to lose your friends, you don’t want to look like psychologically damaged goods. There are a million reasons for keeping quiet.
During the "persecution" I signed legal documents stating that I had never experienced abuse. I took part in protests. With every fibre of my being I believed that we were being persecuted. It took me years to realize that that was not the case. There was a possibility that some of us children might be called on to testify. Leadership knew about my case and met with me to ask what I would say if questioned. I told them that I would deny any abuse. I was never put on the stand but, if I had been, I would have denied it – as far as I was concerned it was in the past. I would not allow it to hurt me or my family. My happiest childhood memories were the times I was with my parents and siblings. I didn’t want to lose them.
My parents are still in TF. All my siblings have left. My siblings are not fighting TF as they are busy working and building their lives. I have told them that while I do not feel the need to seek justice for myself through the courts or media I will support them 100% if they do. My parents have acknowledged to me that what happened was because of Bergs and leaderships writings and lack of any guidelines. They have expressed sorrow at what happened to me. That is all I need personally. Are they sorry enough to leave? At present they still believe that "the TF has brought about so much good in their lives". I could question "What about my life?" But I won’t. I will be patient.
Because of the way we grew up I feel that those of us of the SG are blood – I am not just talking about exers but those of you who are still in TF too. I want the best for all of you. I wish you happiness and success in life – whatever you choose to do with it. Yesterday I was nearly in tears reading your testimonials – I am sorry that you are afraid for your families but please, please do not write off the feelings of those who have suffered. At a time like this it is hard to do but please see beyond the anger and even the hate – please see the pain. It’s cliché but, how can you claim to love those you haven’t seen if you can’t even love your own brothers and sisters – your own flesh and blood?
Some of you have told us to "beware lest we be found to fight against God". God is not the one anyone here has a beef with. Can you imagine the uproar if the Catholic church tried to use rhetoric like that when their priests are accused of abuse? And their leadership has never published anything that encouraged such abuses. Is abuse that occurred within the Catholic clergy so much worse because it was usually homosexual it nature?
If you walked in and saw some Uncle fondling your 6yr old daughter or having her give him a blow would you be upset? What if it was a woman with your 3yr old son? What if they had taken pictures? What if they told you that they weren't hurting your child and promised not to do it again? Would that be enough for you? I think I know what your reaction would be - one of outrage! Is it any surprise that there are people on this site that are outraged? Is it any surprise that for some a token apology is not enough? Is it so wrong that they are seeking justice?
This is not an attack on you. It’s an attack on your leaders. It’s a call for them to take some real responsibility for the harm they have caused. It’s a call for them to come out and speak for themselves – to let the world see their faces, know their real names and know where they live. It’s time for them to face those their actions have affected. It’s easy to offer a token apology behind a screen of anonymity. Let them apologize face to face. They can help to put an end to the hate if they will just face the music. You can edit publications, you can change policies but you cannot edit a child's memories or the impact that those publications and policies had on their lives.
In closing I would strongly recommend that you research the publications that have been purged from your libraries. You can find many of them posted in various places on the Internet. You don’t have to read ex-member commentary if you feel that would "pollute your spirit" or "hurt your faith" but it is in your interest to fully know what you are defending. As brothers and sisters I think you owe us and yourselves that much. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Rain Child
Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 07:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm new to this site, and so far yours is the most intelligent, well-expressed article I've come across. Well Done. I think you've managed to find a balance. It would be wrong to sweep people's pain and suffering under the carpet just as it would be wrong to hate all Family Members for the sins of a few. I have just begun to understand how very sick and twisted Grandpa really was, and it's still hard for me to face it. But I know that many, many people I lived with were true spiritual brothers and sisters to me and I don't want to see them all maligned. So I thankyou for being a voice of reason in this tidal wave of cult-bashing.
(reply to this comment)
|  From Blondie_B78
Tuesday, July 19, 2005, 16:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanks for the comment and welcome to MovingOn. :-)
Questioning everything things that you have been taught as gospel truth since infancy is pretty gut wrenching but definitely worth it. It's much easier to demonise people that don't agree with you and conjure up imaginary monsters than ask or answer the hard questions. Check out some of the posts on the FamilyYouth board and you'll see what I mean. I find it amazing how quick TF young people on that board are to label someone as a "vandari" and how adverse they are to even polite debate. Of course, members of FamilyYouth are only a small sample of young people in TF but, IMO, their attitudes are not all that uncommon amongst Fam members in general.
Shortly after posting this article I came a SGs "myconclusion" type article on some random site and lo and behold there was a comment from a FG I used to know. He praised the SGs article and then said, "...but don't forget, there are none so blind as those that refuse to see..". I was stunned! I personally knew the FG who commented. In the 90's he had had many complaints from JETT/Jr Teen girls (myself included) about excessive groping etc. yet here he was piously playing the role of persecuted victim.?? I did respond to his comment as I was close to his wife and several of his children and feel that, at this point, my desire to protect them from pain outweighs my desire to publically humiliate or take any kind of action against him.
My attitude towards TF is pretty passive compared to many other members of this site. That is not because I believe that abuse was a rare occurance or that only a few individuals were involved. It's because time is precious and I would rather spend it making a good life for my family than seeking revenge.
When Rickys' death featured in the newspaper in my city I had a pretty frank chat with my parents. We discussed past "apologies" by fam leadership and I brought up once place in a GN (no reference. sorry. but am sure someone will have it) where Peter encourages members to get in touch with people they may have "hurt" and apologise. He also cautions them, for their own safety, not to put the apology in writing. I told my parents that, for an apology to be valid, the person doing the apologising should be willing to suffer any potential consequences of their actions.
A victim may choose to forgive or they may choose to press charges. That should be the victims choice - not the perps. My folks found this shocking. "You mean, people should actually be willing to go to jail??!" How many times were we told as a children, "Sorry doesn't fix it" or "You're just sorry you got caught". How many times did apologising mean we missed out on that spanking or punishment?
The act of apologising does not eliminate responsibility for ones actions. To test this, try apologising to the government for tax evasion and see what happens. ;-)
Good luck and hope u enjoy the site.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From Blondie_B78
Thursday, July 21, 2005, 17:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
OMG! I really should read over my comments more carefully before posting - so many typos. :-/ Have only corrected typos in this paragraph because some of them actually changed the content.
"Shortly after posting this article I came across an SGs "myconclusion" type article on some random site and lo and behold there was a comment from an FG I used to know. He praised the SGs article and then said, "...but don't forget, there are none so blind as those that refuse to see..". I was stunned! I personally knew the FG who commented. In the 90's he had had many complaints from JETT/Jr Teen girls (myself included) about excessive groping etc. yet here he was piously playing the role of persecuted victim.?? I did not respond to his comment as I was close to his wife and several of his children and feel that, at this point, my desire to protect them from pain outweighs my desire to publicly humiliate or take any kind of action against him."
Just thought I'd clarify. :-)
The Family Youth Board can be found here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FamilyYouth/?yguid=162189363
In a GN that came out a couple years back Zerby revealed that there was a "race of demons" called the Vandari and that many bitter apostates were oppressed/possessed by them. More info here:
http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=31&ID=835&searchTerms=vandari&qlid=
Have fun! Definitely good for a laugh anyway...
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| | from Rain Child
Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 07:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm new to this site, and so far yours is the most intelligent, well-expressed article I've come across. Well Done. I think you've managed to find a balance. It would be wrong to sweep people's pain and suffering under the carpet just as it would be wrong to hate all Family Members for the sins of a few. I have just begun to understand how very sick and twisted Grandpa really was, and it's still hard for me to face it. But I know that many, many people I lived with were true spiritual brothers and sisters to me and I don't want to see them all maligned. So I thankyou for being a voice of reason in this tidal wave of cult-bashing.
(reply to this comment)
| from Jubilee
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 19:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
thank you Blondie b7
Very well written and expressed. I understand your being so tired of fighting and antangonistic living. I understand you wanting to live in peace and just having a safe peaceful life for your children.
It is just that if these leaders are never made to admit and appologise and face what they have done, this will go on and on in the darkness of the cult secrecy and those children still there will continue to suffer.
Abusers love secrecy and dishonesty. This is the shield they use, lies, secrecy, dishonesty, that and shame and fear. It is a guarantee for abusers, cultic or otherwise, that they won't be stopped or caught, as long as the victims will keep quiet out of exhaustion, shame or fear.
Someone has to speak up and if the victim can't or won't someone has to.
Those who hate the word victim, are not being honest either. Victim doesn't mean you stay that way. You overcome it and become strong, smart and move on, not to be victimized again. But you also get strong from knowing it was not your fault and you can stop it from happening to someone else.
My best wishes for you that the rest of your lives will be full of the real peace and love you always wished you had.
Jubilee -Joanne
(reply to this comment)
| from Big Sister
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 18:13
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Some of the questions people have raised here, especially now, are "do I tell what happened?" or, alternatively, "should I put it behind me and not get involved?". People have their reasons but here, in a post at myconclusions by a current Family member who calls himself "Jude" is why a few good people have to speak up:
Jude says: "when I was seven or eight my family left TF ....and I suddenly found myself surrounded by abusive situations...(my) best friend was thrown around the room and punched by his father three or four times a week...another was regularly sexually abused by his stepfather, who also seemed to beat his wife on the weekends...(another friend was) the most depressed looking 8-year-old I’ve ever met, because his father had pretty much abandoned him and his mother, and his mother hardly gave him the time of day...(yet another) missed getting any Christmas presents and was grounded in his room for a month for doing poorly on a single school subject...(and I) hardly ever saw the kid (except)when he was doing well at school"
Jude then asks what he might have done about this situation or what he might do now and concludes: "What do I do? I know! Maybe I’ll start a witch hunt and have their families thrown into prison, including the abused kids themselves and their own children. Or maybe I’ll sit on my ass complaining about it on web sites .....Or maybe it would be really difficult to enact any plan at all, because I don’t even know where these people are these days, and honestly, it’s none of my business."
Now, to Jude I say: I am a parent of children around 7 to 10 years old. The same age that you were when you experienced these awful abuses. I know that if my child experienced even one of these things I would know about it because they would be very upset and scared and because I am paying attention to them, every day. They would NOT be returning to any child's house long enough to know about the regularity and complexity of the situations you describe because I make it a point to know every family my children visit. If my child described acts in such detail as you have, I would be on the phone to the police, the school, children's social services and to the parents themselves. And yes, Jude, your parents should have acted to make SURE the bad bad adults you saw were IN JAIL! I don't believe they didn't know or that you didn't tell them! Yes, they should have been paying attention and acting to protect you and NO, it is not none of their business!
And you know what, Jude? Since your parents did not act back then, those creeps could still be out there hurting other kids (maybe their grandkids, now) in that "average, secular, middle-class neighborhood somewhere in Southern Texas."
Hey Jude, tell your parents thanks, from me, would ya?
(reply to this comment)
| from ErikMagnusLehnsher
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 15:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
Outstanding article, BlondieB78!
(reply to this comment)
| from dawnbringer invictus
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 13:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
It’s rare that I ever post something here as I feel that this online community is for you guys who were born and raised in TF, what I see as a generation that’s basically unclassifiable. For better or worse you guys are a generation unlike any other. Although I’m 29 years old, I technically fall under the ex FGA group. I joined in ’98, left in 2000, my wife is from the second generation, and yes I’m quite angry about the fact that she too was abused while growing up. This was something that I didn’t find out till late 2003.
Anyhow enough of the introduction, the reason why I’m writing is coz I visited that www.myconclusion.com site and some of the folks who have written there have really left an impression on me. Basically I feel sorry for them but at the same time I can’t help but think: “who the hell are they trying to impress?”
One of the ones that stood out is this girl who claims to have finished something like 7 accredited correspondence courses. Now can someone tell me how that’s possible while living in a CM home? Some of these courses by the way would take 2 years to finish. Another thing is the usual statement of “I wouldn’t choose to live my life any other way.” Uninformed choice at best. Of course we can’t leave out the classic hubris of “I know a lot more about world politics etc…. ” So what are you telling us, you plan to work in the UN? Oh yeah, I forgot…. this knowledge of yours will be useful when you rule an entire continent in the millennium!!!! PTL!!
What I found disturbing though is how a good part of them are now parents themselves and are of course getting older, one of them being 35 I think. It makes you worry about them when you think of how hard it’s gonna be should they decide to leave. For crying out loud, I didn’t grow up in TF and I had a bitch of a time trying to find a job when I left and finally I landed my first job (yes my first job) when I was 25!!! Most of my friends we’re already well on their way in their careers and even shopping around for investments and retirement plans.
Oh well, at least their ACADEMIC WANNABE use of the English language is amusing. Hopefully they can find jobs as stand up comedians…. some of them would have had experience clowning anyway right?
Wait a minute, I better stop poking fun at them…. what if it’s all true and these guys are gonna rule over us in the millennium with their Heaven’s Girl powers, with their on fire spirits beaming with inspiration and enthusiasm from listening to FTTs.
“I see an army gathered together in preparation for the stormy weather yeahhh!!!” Alright!!! Vas is so cool!!!!!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | from clark
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 11:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
Where can I find that post about Ricky when he was a baby. The detailed diary type letter of Sara D's daily sexual activities with from the DIto Book. I read it a few days ago and can't find it again. HELP
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | from Sal
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 00:03
(Agree/Disagree?)
What a beautiful letter. So full of love and understanding. Thank you so very much for taking your time to write it. I admire your ideals but the simple true is that as long as people are still members of TF they will forever be blind to the true of what Maria and Berg have done to the 1st generation. It's really the 1st generation that is at fault and Maria is of that generation.
I am attaching a letter from a CURRENT FIRST GENERATION MEMBER that this person wrote in response to a FORMER FIRST GENERATION MEMBER. I think it will give insight to where Maria and Peter and perhaps many of the 1st generation adults are at still to this day.
Letter from a current 1st generation adult in response to an email from a former member.
FIRST, THE FORMER MEMBER'S LETTER:
Dear J____
I was a member for 30 years. I am amazed that Family members like yourself, professing purist christianity, can justify abuse and call it "good". You should watch M. Night Shamayan's The Village and see an amazing parable about the Family.
Davidito was held up as a role model to all of us. The best parents in the world raising the best child in the world, prophecied to be one of the two end time witnesses of Rev 11. So what went wrong? Did Davidito not get the right kind of sex at age 12? What about Moses David, Father David, "Dad" performing oral sex on Mene at age 14? Right now I am trying to help 3 of my teens to recover from being raised in the family post 1986 when the abuse was supposedly stopped. One is anorexic and suicidal another has great rage against the world. Both are in therapy. The third their mother gave up in a heartbeat when the family is under scrutiny for child abuse again. What is going on?
J___ you posted on the web an opinion. Can you fathom for a moment that the rage, depression and suicidal tendencies came from deep within Davidito could not be satisfied except for possibly his mom admiting wrong doing and humbly apologizing rather than keeping secret sex doctrines going long past 1986?
There is real pain in the younger generation. I am becoming convinced that the family doctrine of "if you think, think, think, you will sink, sink, sink, because you stink, stink, stink." is the worst of all, not affording people the right to think for themselves and to rely on missives from the top floor of the asylum to dictate what you think you believe, never doubting, always being instructed to shield your eyes from others opinions, facts and the cruel reality that the Family leadership holds themselves us as totally loving and totally infallible. Both of which may very well be false. But who knows as the leadership is so secretive, no audits, no accountability. Just keep tithing no matter what level of excommunication you receive, keep tithing.
I challenge you to read what Davidito himself had to say. If these things weren't true or had some basis how could some unnamed "apostates" convince that level headed young missionary otherwise? It makes no sense and I am afraid most of you are so entranced that will never open your minds till it comes home to you.
*http://tinyurl.com/4nrdm *
You probably won't click it because Mama said not to. It's such a sad, sad story. God be with you.
By the way, I left the Family very, very slowly from 2001 - 2003 trying very hard to salvage my marriage to a non-thinking woman who fell in love with her "leadership" shepherd. So loving, so damaging. My 16 year old daughter understands Davidito perfectly because she feels the same way. I am trying very hard to convince her to reconcile with her mom, but mom won;t apologize because she prays and has the mind of the Lord. These love-hate relationships are a killer.
AND NOW FROM THE CURRENT FIRST GENERATION MEMBER:
Dear GJS,
Thank you for your email. I hope to give you an answer worthy of you as a disciple of Christ and Family member all those years. I mean, 30 years is indeed a long time to spend following one set of doctrines!
I want to introduce you to the book, "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" by Stephen Covey. This is a "system" book but believe it or not, I think that next to the Bible and the Letters, I think it is one of the most important books in the world that everyone should read regardless of their religion or persuasion in life! It outlines very clearly certain principles that work either for or against a person. It doesn't matter if you know those principles or not, or if you even believe them or not. They are always there and are fundamental principles of God's Universe, like the law of gravity, and no man or women can live in violation of those principles without hurting themselves.
I believe if Davidito had read that book and even half way followed it, he would not have did what he did.
The book talks about two kinds of people in the world, proactive and reactive. Proactive people are people who do what they can do, and do not spend negative energy complaining about what they can do. Reactive people are folks who tend to blame circumstances, heritage, other people, etc. on their problems. They complain about what they can't do - change the past, etc. but do NOT do what they CAN do to better their lives in a postive way. I really cannot do the book justice with this brief explanation, but you can find an excellent web page on it at:
http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~tanguay/7habits.htm
Here is a good quote from the book:
Circle of Influence
Imagine a circle within a circle. The inner circle is your circle of influence and the outer circle is your circle of concern. This means that many things which you are concerned about you cannot influence. Yet there are many things which you are concerned about which you can influence. Reactive people focus on their circle of concern. Proactive people focus on their circle of influence. Being proactive also increases your circle of influence.
I am suggesting that folks who fight against the Family are "reactive people" who wrongly identify the problem. They focus only on their concerns, similar to people who complain always about the weather or the government or the economy as the basis for all their problems!
Another good point and quote from the book is, "How we perceive the problem, IS the problem!" I believe this is a profound statement worth thinking about. You and others call certain events in the past, "child abuse" or "sexual abuse" and I do not perceive it as such. So brother, I am suggesting our difference in opinion is merely based on our perception of reality. This is yet another point of the book, the "Power of the Paradigm."
I do not consider myself an intellectual. I like to be simple and therefore I really appreciate Stephen Covey's really clear explanation of the principles. I believe the apostates are in basic violation of many of the principles of the 7 Habits, and are only hurting themselves.
Davidito is the prime example, sad to say.
Now to comment on specific things you wrote:
> M. Night Shamayan's The Village
Never heard about it before.
> What about Moses David, Father David, "Dad" performing oral sex on Mene at age 14?
You would have to show me hard evidence that could be proved in a court of law before I can believe that! Dad said he doesn't like oral sex!
But even if he did have sex, whose laws did he violate? Man's laws. And not even the entire world of man, only the Western world and cultures the Western world influenced. I do not believe he had sex with Mene without her consent, for that would have violated God's law of Love. I do not believe he did that. Sex, maybe, but though she was "underage"
and a "minor" in Western countries, and though it was illegal according to the laws of that country, I say to you, God is the Judge, not man.
The most important thing for me is how it looked in the sight of God!
Yes, he may have broken man's law, but I do not believe he broke God's law. I do not believe it was without her consent.
You may say, "SHE WAS ONLY 14 BROTHER! A MINOR!" Do you know anything about what the Illuminati does with their kids?
I am a conspiracy scholar. I'm not taking about "conspiracy theories"
but documentation of testimonies of real victims of sexual abuse as a child. I'm talking about heavy stuff such as fathers regularly raping their daughters not even 10 years old!! I'm talking about real torture, real trauma. This is all based on a secret CIA black ops project known as MK-ULTRA or Project Monarch. And I actually met and talked to a former agent working on this project. I believe it. Here are some web links.
http://educate-yourself.org/mc/
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/oz.htm
http://webpages.shepherd.edu/EEHRHA01/13Bloodlines.htm
If you never heard of this before, I guarantee that it will blow your socks off!
So basically I am suggesting is that folks who knock the Family for so called "child abuse" really don't know what is happening in the rest of the world. If they knew about the dirty deeds of those who engage in the Monarch program were TENS of THOUSANDS of little kids were tortured and traumatized to make them either super soldiers, super spies or sex slaves, I don't think they would be attacking the Family and our teachings the way they do. I suggest they don't know who the *real* Enemy of our souls is!
If you ever saw the film, "The Bourne Identity" (web site:
http://www.thebourneidentity.com/ )
you may be able to grasp where I am coming from. I believe this film is based on reality.
> Can you fathom for a moment that the rage, depression and suicidal tendencies came from deep within Davidito could not be satisfied except for possibly his mom admiting wrong doing and humbly apologizing rather than keeping secret sex doctrines going long past 1986?
Again the same principle of proactivity verses reactivity applies. Was I mad at my parents for raising me in the heathen idol worshiping child abusing Roman Catholic Church with perverted sex starved priests who sodomize little boys? Did John Todd rage against his parents for raising him to be a witch? EVEN IF the Family is the most EVIL group in the world, I am saying that for kids to rage against their upbringing according to the convictions of their parents is in violation of God's principles of the universe! Parents have a right to rear their children up according to their convictions. If there was any real physiological or psychological hurt involved, these were isolated cases and not the norm. I raised 3 children in the Family. One remains in the Family doing well, and the other two are doing well in the system. The two in the system do not think the Family is right for them, and may disagree with some things, maybe a lot of things, but they are doing well and have continued their education on their own. One even got a scholarship to a top school! They are not bitter against their upbringing.
> rather than keeping secret sex doctrines going long past 1986?
What secret sex doctrines? Please do educate me.
>> *http://tinyurl.com/4nrdm *
>>
>> You probably won't click it because Mama said not to.
I've already seen that page! The NDN guys even posted my comments on their site without even asking my permission. But when I mentioned it to them, they removed it and made a link from that page to mine. So I'm thankful for that.
>> These love-hate relationships are a killer.
I feel for you brother. I know it is tough. I came out of a very sticky relationship with a sister who was married. She loved me and I was single, but was in love with another women who was also single, and when I left the Home to be with that sister, emotions took their toll on all related parties. But following the Lord and putting Him first was the key to get out of it. Wounds of the heart do take a long time to heal, but their DO heal if we forgive and not dwell on the past.
Love in Jesus,
J___
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | From Joe H
Friday, January 21, 2005, 14:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have only one thing to say: If you think it's ok for a 65 year old man to have sex with his granddaughter because a secret organization that is trying to take over the world does worse to kids that are younger, you are a textbook schizophrenic. Were it not for the cult, you would be wandering the streets reading loudly and incoherently from a tattered copy of Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, amusing passersby with your unique brand of lunacy, while simultaneously repulsing them with your halitosis and body odor. Seek professional help!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From jpmagero
Friday, January 21, 2005, 13:25
(Agree/Disagree?)
Reading your letter was quite shocking and I’ve added my two (or ten) cents below. I just hope you never run into my siblings still in the group.
It doesn't matter if you know those principles or not, or if you even believe them or not. They are always there and are fundamental principles of God's Universe, like the law of gravity, and no man or women can live in violation of those principles without hurting themselves.
-According to the author that is, which doesn’t necessarily make it true. That’s what Christians say about every other religion, but the world goes on.
I believe if Davidito had read that book and even half way followed it, he would not have did what he did.
-There is a lot that could have been done to potentially avoid the final actions, but the onus of most of those actions was on the people that raised him and abused him
The book talks about two kinds of people in the world, proactive and reactive. Proactive people are people who do what they can do, and do not spend negative energy complaining about what they can do. Reactive people are folks who tend to blame circumstances, heritage, other people, etc. on their problems. They complain about what they can't do - change the past, etc. but do NOT do what they CAN do to better their lives in a positive way
-Actually, a proactive person is one who performs actions on their own initiative and desires, while a reactive person is one who does things as a reaction to the actions of others. And we know that every action demands a reaction. I imagine the author of this book you hold in high regard would be quite reactive if someone stole his material and published as their own, and spend some “negative energy” in the form of a court case to protect his interests.
To call someone’s outrage and being abused “negative energy” and their response a “complaint”, you belittle what they have gone through. Who are you to tell them that because they are seeking justice and a proper response from their abusers, that they don’t lead a very productive life of which you are entirely unaware? You are making an assumption that we spend most of our time talking like this to people like you, when in fact we mostly have our own lives to live. While dealing with this abuse will not change the past, it will lead to justice being served.
Essentially, you are standing up for the so called “proactive” people that, with some edging on from their dear prophet, decided to take the first step and abuse children, and condemning the “reactive” people who are angrily reacting to their abusive upbringing.
This means that many things which you are concerned about you cannot influence. Yet there are many things which you are concerned about which you can influence. Reactive people focus on their circle of concern. Proactive people focus on their circle of influence. I am suggesting that folks who fight against the Family are "reactive people" who wrongly identify the problem. They focus only on their concerns, similar to people who complain always about the weather or the government or the economy as the basis for all their problems!
-So if someone tells you that their so-called uncle raped them, you will liken them to someone who complains about the weather? If that’s the case, I’d like to see what you say if your daughter ever came to you with such a “complaint”. “Daddy, uncle so-&-so touched me….” to which you say “oh shush, it’s the past, you can’t change it so get over it, and besides, I didn’t see it happen so it probably never did”
Another good point and quote from the book is, "How we perceive the problem, IS the problem!"
-No shit, Sherlock!
You and others call certain events in the past, "child abuse" or "sexual abuse" and I do not perceive it as such.
-This is the key to the whole matter, the difference in perspective. A child molester does what he/she does because it brings them pleasure and most do not feel it is in fact wrong. Many of us that left were not aware that it was wrong until we left, then we became aware that just because it happens, it doesn’t make it right.
I do not consider myself an intellectual.
-Yet you call yourself a scholar???
I believe the apostates are in basic violation of many of the principles of the 7 Habits, and are only hurting themselves.
-Glad you think so, but why not leave it to them to pursue their own justice. Violation makes it sound like they are breaking the law, and you condemn them, but you are much less liberal about condemning their formal abusers.
Davidito is the prime example, sad to say.
-We all think so too, but for different reasons.
What about Moses David, Father David, "Dad" performing oral sex on Mene at age 14?
You would have to show me hard evidence that could be proved in a court of law before I can believe that! Dad said he doesn't like oral sex!
-So only hard evidence is enough to prove to you that something is fact? I believe oral testimony is quite acceptable in court. But thankfully, there is so much circumstantial evidence which backs the rest of her story up, that little bit left is easily accepted by the courts.
But even if he did have sex, whose laws did he violate? Man's laws.
-Which would then excuse Ricky, because under god’s law, isn’t it ok to kill as long as the reason is there? Much of what the family does is in violation of some of god’s laws, which they selectively follow or disregard.
I do not believe he had sex with Mene without her consent, for that would have violated God's law of Love.
-She did no have the right to grant her consent, she was 14. Would you allow your 14 year old daughter to have “consensual” sex with a 65 year old? I think and hope not. Especially if he was her grandfather, your father.
I do not believe he did that. Sex, maybe, but though she was "underage" and a "minor" in Western countries, and though it was illegal according to the laws of that country, I say to you, God is the Judge, not man.
-So, lets open all the prison cells and let all the criminals all out, If god thinks them guilty, he will strike them dead, or maybe guide them back to their cell. Is that what you’re saying? If it applies to this, then it would apply to all them
The most important thing for me is how it looked in the sight of God! Yes, he may have broken man's law, but I do not believe he broke God's law. I do not believe it was without her consent.
-God must have been looking down on her, spread eagle in her bed, sometime tied up, with her grandfather going down on her, maybe just fondling her, sometimes more and thought, “Yeah, I’m cool with that, he’s a prophet and I’ll let some things slide. Actually, its in line with this whole law of love thing, so we why don’t we actually call it good for her. And while we’re at it, lets paddle her in public, humiliate her and then hang her out to dry and call her crazy. After all, she is fighting against my little prophet, you.” That makes about as much sense as a bullet in the head.
You may say, "SHE WAS ONLY 14 BROTHER! A MINOR!" Do you know anything about what the Illuminati does with their kids?
-No, but do you? I mean, have you actually seen video footage, verified the authenticity of the claims? According to your standard of acceptable evidence, that is.
I am a conspiracy scholar.
-Does that make you a non-intellectual scholar?
I'm not taking about "conspiracy theories"
-yes you are:
· Cell phone towers aka mind control agents
· Wizard of Oz aka “Illuminati” parable, I guess Jesus wasn’t the only one who spoke figuratively.
but documentation of testimonies of real victims of sexual abuse as a child. I'm talking about heavy stuff such as fathers regularly raping their daughters not even 10 years old!!
This sounds strikingly familiar to what many of us who have left are saying, but we are not talking about what someone we never met told us, we are talking about real people that we know, grew up with, spent time with revealing that they themselves were abused. I find it appalling that you so summarily dismiss the stories of these abused that were close to you, but yet you embrace those of people you have never met and whose memories have been recovered, which is a far cry from those that always knew what happened to them, it was documented, but just never knew the word spade, but were told it was called a earth surface moving device.
If you never heard of this before, I guarantee that it will blow your socks off!
-Wrong, I was not impressed, but why don’t you visit www.snopes.com, that will expose the truth about McDonalds, Coke, and a host of other serious threats to mankind. Can I have my money back?
So basically I am suggesting is that folks who knock the Family for so called "child abuse" really don't know what is happening in the rest of the world
-I suggest you don’t have a grip on reality. If the abuse was not so well documented by evidence from the family themselves, then it might be more easily dismissed. Fortunately for the abused, it is no longer “so-called” but rather backed up by hundreds of eyewitnesses to the circumstances that fostered this abuse.
Just because Somalia, Sudan and a host of other countries do not have proper food and nutrition, it becomes no less important for me to provide a proper diet to my children. This sliding scale of justice is a farce, you do something not because it is better that the next guy, you do it because it is right. If something wrong is committed, you do what you can to correct it.
If you ever saw the film, "The Bourne Identity you may be able to grasp where I am coming from. I believe this film is based on reality.
-You believe wrong, it is based on the second book of a series by Robert Ludlum, among other spy thrillers.
Can you fathom for a moment that the rage, depression and suicidal tendencies came from deep within Davidito could not be satisfied except for possibly his mom admiting wrong doing and humbly apologizing rather than keeping secret sex doctrines going long past 1986?
Again the same principle of proactivity verses reactivity applies. Was I mad at my parents for raising me in the heathen idol worshiping child abusing Roman Catholic Church with perverted sex starved priests who sodomize little boys?
-If you had gone to the authorities, at least today, you would be given your day in court, the priest would be jailed, and you would leave with a tidy sum. The catholic church, for all its excesses, at least now is being made to account for the sexual abuse of its children.
Did John Todd rage against his parents for raising him to be a witch?
-I don’t know enough to comment about him, but I submit that neither do you.
EVEN IF the Family is the most EVIL group in the world, I am saying that for kids to rage against their upbringing according to the convictions of their parents is in violation of God's principles of the universe!
-As opposed to the parents raising their kids in an evil group not being against gods so called principals of the universe?
Parents have a right to rear their children up according to their convictions.
-So long as those convictions and life choices do not contravene the basic human and child rights established and followed by the majority of the worlds population.
If there was any real physiological or psychological hurt involved, these were isolated cases and not the norm.
-Not according to the thousands of accounts that have been submitted by people that have left the group.
I raised 3 children in the Family. They are not bitter against their upbringing.
- I am happy for them. I am not bitter, but this does not stop me from recognizing what was so wrong with my upbringing.
What secret sex doctrines? Please do educate me.
-This would be the “Mama’s Summit Jewels” where she explicitly explains that though the family has publicly disavowed child sex, they don’t believe it to be inherently wrong, abusive or all that bad an idea after all. It was all just a public show, and even though its against the rules, its only to avoid getting on the bad side of the “system.”(reply to this comment) |
| | From Nancy
Friday, January 21, 2005, 11:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh dear! Are you kidding? This is the same conspiracy drivel I've heard from the cult and my stepfather from when I was old enough to pronounce the word Illuminati. When does it end? The comet didn't kill us; no two comets didn't kill us. Y2K didn't kill us. The world didn't end in 1986. The CIA isn't investigating a Jewish world conspiracy. There aren't Masonic Devil-worshippers running the US. And you really must stop getting all your news between a cult and the internet!
Now stop with all the hand waving BS! It really is quite obvious.
Like Anderson Cooper said to Claire Borowik recently, "Show me one case!" Show me one case of your alleged thousands of tortured conspiracy victims. I can show you a hundred of the cult's victims here.
For someone who demands "hard evidence that could be proved in a court of law," you sure are a sucker. Do you buy all that urban legend spam, too? In your mind, did someone really pay $250 for a Neiman Marcus cookie recipe? Are their organ theft rings operating in U.S. nightclubs? Is there really an ex-patriot African prince willing to send you $50,000 if you provide him with your bank account and routing number? Does Elvis speak to you? Hell! Who am I asking? The dead do speak to you. While you see dead people, I see stupid people. There really is one born every minute. With a quarter of my powers of persuasion, I could make a cult out of a bunch of you right now! Dude, you are one exorcism and a devotions away from drinking poison Cool-aid in a South American hut!
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From xolox
Friday, January 21, 2005, 10:21
(Agree/Disagree?)
"I mean, 30 years is indeed a long time to spend following one set of doctrines! " It sure is, 30 years with your head up your ass will give you breath like THAT!
"I want to introduce you to the book, "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" by Stephen Covey. This is a "system" book but believe it or not, I think that next to the Bible and the Letters, I think it is one of the most important books in the world that everyone should read regardless of their religion or persuasion in life! " And that is the extent of her non-Family library. One book.
"They are always there and are fundamental principles of God's Universe, like the law of gravity, and no man or women can live in violation of those principles without hurting themselves." Doesn't apply to child molestation though... you can do that all you want without hurting yourself, in the Family anyway.
"I believe if Davidito had read that book and even half way followed it, he would not have did what he did." Wait a second... are you telling me that Non-Family literature would have saved his and Angelas life? Then why was he not raised on the stuff, or all of us for that matter? We could have avoided not only murder, and many suicides, but you wouldn't have to look at this annoying site, and hear all that annoying stuff about your 'Mo leader.
"The book talks about two kinds of people in the world, proactive and reactive." Does the proactive way include an undiddle yourself kit? That would be nice. "Proactive people are people who do what they can do," Like lawsuits, Media focus, and prompting government investigations. "Reactive people are folks who tend to blame circumstances, heritage, other people, etc." These people make you sooo uncomfortable. But why? If their complaints hold no water. Here's a tired old saying for you- It's the hit dog that howls-
"Here is a good quote from the book:
Circle of Influence
Imagine a circle within a circle. The inner circle is your circle of influence and the outer circle is your circle of concern. This means that many things which you are concerned about you cannot influence. Yet there are many things which you are concerned about which you can influence. Reactive people focus on their circle of concern. Proactive people focus on their circle of influence. Being proactive also increases your circle of influence. " Why are you talking about circles, shouldn't you be talking about keys?
"Another good point and quote from the book is, 'How we perceive the problem, IS the problem!' I believe this is a profound statement worth thinking about. You and others call certain events in the past, 'child abuse' or 'sexual abuse' and I do not perceive it as such. So brother, I am suggesting our difference in opinion is merely based on our perception of reality. This is yet another point of the book, the 'Power of the Paradigm.'" That IS a good point! So maybe you should start to "perceive" this little problem we seem to have as something more than angry detractors or apsotates. We certainly do! The authroties "perceive" sex with minors as a crime. Though if you should wind up in jail for your obvious support of sex with minors, (which according to you is not abuse), your ability for affecting your perception should come in handy. You could choose to "perceive" jail as a family home, and this time you will be the kid!
BTW, Jurassic park is also based on a true story! For real! No kidding! A bearded old man told me!
"I do not consider myself an intellectual." I guess nobody's wrong ALL the time!(reply to this comment) |
| | From j.
Friday, January 21, 2005, 10:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
incredible, so now we're supposed to grade crimes on the curve? Think of the time that would save the courts, "your Honor, Mr. Peterson here did kill his wife and unborn child but compared to the Manson family he could be considered a saint, plus she was really bitching that day so we present that it was mostly her fault..." "oh well I see, that's perfectly understandable..." "Taking into consideration the lovely, heartfelt apology, the great job hiding the evidence and the fact that he has stated that he wants to move on and be a loving husband to ms. Frey here; you're dimissed... and here, let me go ahead and give you a medal for taking time out of your busy schedule to answer our questions..."(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From thinker711
Friday, January 21, 2005, 09:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
This letter accentuates why it is that the family will not apologize: they don't believe that what they did was wrong. Their definition of abuse is "Silence of the Lambs" abuse (i.e., being locked in a dungeon, etc.). They tell themselves that it can't be abuse it the child wants it, and they assume that the child wants it because they want it. ANY sexual contact with children is abusive, PERIOD. The child does not have to be screaming and kicking for it to be "rape". Many of the abused simply did not know what to do, so they did nothing. Us kids were taught to unquestionably obey adults. If you honestly believe that Mene was not abused, then you are either wholly uninformed or you are one sick pup. (reply to this comment) |
| | From porceleindoll
Friday, January 21, 2005, 18:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree in part. I agree that the first generation will never be able to admit they are wrong for those very reasons, and as has been proven in their literature, no matter what they say to the public, they still believe their 'personal laws from Jesus' are right and ultimately that they will prove it to the world when we're all in Heaven.
But after reading several of those comments on the present family youth speaking out site, I realised that:
1. Many of them are younger than 20, meaning they would have been babies and tots when the worst abuses were happening. I am quite confident that my brother who is 18 never experienced anything sexually wrong while in the cult, while I know that my sister, cousins and friend who are closer to 30 were abused.
2. The older ones who now have families seem to forget how it used to be in the cult, and seem to forget the price that we paid with sacrificing our innocence and childhood to gain the few changes that have come into effect--the education they are now allowed to pursue, the cool clothes they are now allowed to wear, the choice to ensure the education of their own children, the right to vote out a shepherd in the Home, etc... These among others were not freedoms present in our childhood or teen years, but mainly because of us and themselves, a lot of changes have been put in place to ensure more freedom and a more socially acceptable environment to grow up in.
It seems to me too that the Family is going to great lengths to severely limit the information concerning our reaction, and expounding on the extreme negative reactions posted to this site, but not including those comments which are more balanced. The present youth seem to have developed this fear that we are out to rip them away from their families, take away their children, or worse, that we view them all as abusers. I find this highly unfair in that the site here allows a wide variety of opinions as well as posting all reactions and comments we come across from the Family International and its members. On the other hand, they only read what is approved and sent to them from their leadership, as well as being warned against coming here or reading news articles relating the murder/suicide.
Once again I feel that the Family is pulling a 'fast one' on its members, much as happened in the past when we were there. I'm afraid it will backfire if those youths ever decide to leave, and start a search for the truth, the devotion and love they hold so dearly now will turn to anger, bitterness and hate.(reply to this comment) |
| | From I was abused
Friday, January 21, 2005, 16:37
(Agree/Disagree?)
Many of us did not know what to do because there were no options that we knew of! What is a child supposed to do when the people that run your world approve of this and your parents are peachy keen?? And you're stranded out in the third world?? WHY would you complain to people who do it or approve? You'd just get in trouble! I know, I tried!(reply to this comment) |
| | From porceleindoll
Friday, January 21, 2005, 18:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
When I was in the cult there were no clear guidelines nor education in regards to abuse and how to handle it. We were not told that "Yes, you may turn your abusers into the authorities if you wish", quite the opposite, we were trained to be afraid of, rebuke and avoid police, officials and anyone representing a 'system power'. We were not taught what abuse actually was, we were however taught not to make a big deal of it when it happened, not to judge the poor 'brother', and then the ultimate, that sexual abuse was our own fault for being too flirty.
It's more than ridiculous, I can't believe some of the nonesense coming from the cult.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From porceleindoll
Friday, January 21, 2005, 18:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
I wonder though, is J's reaction towards Mene's situation a reflection of what the cult leadership has informed the present members about the situation? It's hard for them to deny it actually happened, but have they turned it around saying she consented and therefore it was OK? This worried me greatly, this twisting of right and wrong and how easy it is to convince the members of their version of truth and reality. (reply to this comment) |
| | From you sick f**k
Friday, January 21, 2005, 21:12
(Agree/Disagree?)
say what you will about cultural differences and whatnot; I don't know of any cultures, however primitive, that condone incest "consensual" or not... and with a grandparent?? I shudder to think... I mean what kind of an f***ed up grandfather/grandaughter relationship is that? little wonder she needed therapy after that.... could you imagine having sexual contact of any kind with your grandparent?? J__?? can you? what mental backflips you must be doing to justify that...(reply to this comment) |
| | From Blondie_B78
Friday, January 21, 2005, 19:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
I doubt that J's "thoughts" on Mene's situation are shared by most current fam members."The Last State" was purged years ago and I think peoples memories about the whole thing are pretty dim.
If anything I would imagine most people just think she was crazy and that the letter was purged because of the "harsh discipline" it describes. More of, "Well, mistakes were made but now we have the Family Discipine Guidelines....". Before leaving I had never even heard a whisper about Berg sexually abusing Mene or Faithy for that matter. Of course, I'd heard about Debs accusations but she had been held up as the epitomy of an evil, demon-possesed apostate for so long that I never thought much on what I had heard.
I think that most FG fam members (they must remember reading all that purged material...I mean.. COME ON!) are simply in serious denial. Why on earth would you doubt God's prophet and believe some apostate that wants to ruin your life?! Zerby always says, "You can believe what you want but...if you want God's take on things, if you want the truth, then listen to us.." If Zerby claims that red is green most fam members would probably doubt their eyes before doubting her word...
Of course, I'm sure there are irreversibly deranged people (like J) out there as well...(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From clark
Friday, January 21, 2005, 08:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, that letter was incredible. Of course there are millions of horrible things going on worldwide. TF is a group that claims to believe in the law of LOVE and be spiritual leaders for this day and age. They are not the rest of the world. OTHERS MAY, YOU CANNOT!! "Dad didn't have sex with Mene without her consent" OMG can a 14 year old give consent. Even if she was old enough, she was his GRANDAUGHTER. would you let your father go down on your 14 year old daughter? Maybe other culures do it but that does not justify a "christian" in this day in age doing it.
I was sexually abused in TF and I will admit, at the time I did not feel abused or scared in any way. It is not till I got out from under the mind control and could see the whole picture that I realized, it is not Ok to have sex when you are 7. Anyway, in my opinion, the sexual abuse was the lease of abuses we suffered. It was the disciplinary abuse, the six months of silence restriction with a sign around my neck and my wonderful Father in isolation outside the home in a screened in room poolside, in the dead of winter with his little cardboard sign not allowed to speak to his own children. God intended for children to respect their father as the head of the home. How humiliating. He still does not hold his head as high as he used to. Holding my baby brother was too "fun" for me so it was one of the "privaleges" I had revoked. I was 12!! "Suffer the little children to come unto Me" " If you offend one of these litte ones, it is better that a mill stone be hung around your neck," what about that? God is LOVE, tolerance, compassion. Where was the love? 8 year olds should be outside playing, not sweeping driveways all day with duct tape on their mouths. "God is in the business of breaking up faimilies??" How can you explain that? EXPLAIN THAT!! How can such filth come from a "prophets" mouth. God created the family structure.
To all of you posting rebuttals on "myconclusion," a lot of you are younger and honestly didn't witness any of this and that is great. But the fact remains that it did happen at the hand of people still in a leadership role and they either belittle it or side step it. The way they have cut you off from most ouside imput, how can you make an informed decision? I know you say" I know what the system is like, I am not brainwashed" I said it all myself. I stood up and picketed my ass of in LA. and vocally denied all allegations etc. But you know the system the way TF chooses you to know it. How can you ever find your true potential when your whole world is so small. How can someone who is out of touch with reality as Zerby is tell how she thinks you should live? Zerby, where are your 10+ children who honor and respect you because you trained them up in the way they should go? You struggled having just 2, and surrounded by nannies. How do you justify giving up your relationship with your son for TF.How many sleepless nights did you spend with a babe on the breast and several other sick children, no $ for medical attention only to get up and can all day for some rent $. How can you encourage others to live by faith, broke with so many children and no future when look how you live. You wouldn't survive a week on a foreign mission field.
If you had done it right your children would "STAND UP AND CALL YO BLESSED," I sure ain't hearin' it.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Laurora
Friday, January 21, 2005, 12:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well said. And the job doesn't end when the children turn 18. It seemed to me when I was there (I left & took my 5 with) that people had kids and wanted others to raise them...cop outs! I had to watch a lot of the kids and I loved all their unique personalities that the top people wanted to surpress! But sometimes I'd be watching 12-18 kids at a time. Did Zerby ever do that? No. Did the top women do that? Not usually. I eventually took a stand for the sake of my kids remembering how I had once had independence and realized my kids didn't even know what that tasted like! I thought OMG I can't deny them what I so once treasured! How can I deny their birthright? So I left and brought them home & got moral support from my parents - parents TF tried to say weren't really my family. Yeah right... And I've been parenting since and it has been tough but a blessing anyway. And it doesn't stop at 18. Their ages are 16-25 and I talk with each at least 1 time a week no matter where they are in the country...some still in high school and it is a life time committment. A parntership. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world! I don't control their lives, don't force them in a mold. We are in the same boat as far as daily trying to make our lives better by education, hard work, etc...I don't always have the right answers. But I'm there for my kids through good weather and bad and the reward is when they say thank you and "I love you Mom" and "I just had to talk to you" etc... Zerby doesn't have a clue! I had to admit I was deluded and apologized for being so stupid. My Kids sure thank me I decided to leave! I had to admit I'd wasted some really good years. You just do what is right for your family. And you never forget. It still haunts you but you have to go on. Heck, I was humiliated by Singing Sam so many times! Yeah, Mr. Celebrity himself.... tsk tsk
TF will never change. Their mentality never changes! Its amazing! I have witnessed it since I left - still close to family that are in TF still, and its like it was 14 years ago! They are in lost behind the green door!
Feels so wonderful to be FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From frmrjoyish
Friday, January 21, 2005, 07:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
OMG!! This person is insane! This comment should be used in court to prove how incapable these people are of distinguishing serious child abuse from perverted sexual fantasies. A 14 yr. old consented to sex with her grandfather?? It may be illegal by the laws of man but god's law allows it?? WTF? This is pathetic!
And these people are still allowed to raise children. This proves TF is still the same old perverted sex cult with nothing more than the everchanging window dressing. Now as much as ever I believe children are still in danger when in the hands of this cult. It's absolutely sickening!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From JohnnieWalker
Friday, January 21, 2005, 06:46
(Agree/Disagree?)
The current Family member says: "So basically [what] I am suggesting is that folks who knock the Family for so called "child abuse" really don't know what is happening in the rest of the world."
If anyone who ever had a crime committed against them would only be allowed to seek justice for themselves if no other person experienced a more horrifying crime, then there would be no justice in this world.
I pick my battles.
I may not be aware of the abuses suffered by children halfway around the world, but I am aware of the abuses I and my friends have suffered.
I may not have the ability to bring a criminal living in the same city as I am to justice, but I do have the ability to make sure justice is served to the abusers in The Family.
I cannot fight for an abused child I don't know.
But I can fight for myself and my friends.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From weegirlie
Friday, January 21, 2005, 02:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Yup that's pretty sick. This person has basically just said that even if sex with children did occur then it would have been okay because "Dad" was god's prophet and therefore nothing he does is wrong. It disgusts me that there are still members who can think this way!! Thank goodness not all of them do though. I know my mum has admitted that abuse has happened, that it was wrong and has apologised to me that it happened. In most instances she wasn't actually aware of it at the time (mostly because us kids didn't realise we might have been able to say something to her and make it stop). I can't follow her logic of still wanting to stay in TF now, but at least she has admitted that the abuse did occur which has given me some form of closure (although perhaps she hasn't quite accepted that it was the leadership that promoted it, but I suppose she has to justify her involvement with TF family in her own mind).
All I can say is that I hope my little sisters who are still in TF never have the misfortune of living with/meeting the twisted fuck who wrote this letter. And how dare he try to place the blame on ex members who are looking for justice! Not everyone is strong enough to put abuse in the past so easily! I would consider myself in the "proactive" group that he talks about as I've gotten on with my life, have a good job, wonderful boyfriend, friends, good social life etc., but that doesn't mean that I don't still hope deep down that someday my abusers are brought to justice. I just don't let it eat away at me!! In my opinion that would let them win. But I truely feel for those who haven't been able to do this and hope that they somehow find peace.(reply to this comment) |
| | From sim44
Friday, January 21, 2005, 17:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
I am the old ex-member who wrote the first letter to the feeble nutcase conspirator. I lost it on him when he wrote back with his justifications. I sent him half of Lord Justice Ward's findings. Back in 2000, James Penn helped me to "wake up and smell the coffee" so to speak--The first real breakthrough in the real conspiracy called the Family.
This loyal oldtimer (read "nutjob") should be ashamed of himself pulling a noble thinker like Steven Covey into his polluted world, a world in which I unfortunately spent way too many years hoping that things would get better. Anyway, I don't know how my email got on here to begin with but I am happy that you guys got some mileage out of it. Good job.
I'd be very interested to be kept informed of any events, media or otherwise that would help the cause of liberating more people from the cult, especially 3 of my kids who are still minors and living with their mother. Please also know that not all 1st gen folks are all bad. We just got led astray with all the revolutionary hype at the beginning of the family, after that, we were like the chained eagle, habituated and addicted to a lot of bad stuff.
I appreciate all the comments even the irreverant ones. It's free speech and it speaks volumes.
I feel sorry for Ricky that he could not get counselling and therapy for his frustrations and hope his wishes of stopping the cult will somehow come to pass although it seems only a remote possibility. I feel my wife's quick turn in giving in to my 13 year old's demand to be allowed to leave the family was a direct result of the pressure the Family is feeling right now due to Ricky's actions. Maybe more good will come of it. Let's hope...(reply to this comment) |
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