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from antonahill - Tuesday, December 30, 2008
accessed 408 times

Looking for 2nd gen and on CoG survivors.

Hi everyone,

As you'll see from my profile, I'm a very recent widower of former 2nd gen survivor, Rachel Meyer.

Rachel was one of a few of what she described as Mo's inner-circle. She knew Davidito, Karen Zerby, and the rest.

I'm writing for two main reasons. One, I'd like to warn any survivors out there that if you're experiencing any of the symptoms Rachel did, you may not be long for this world. I won't give a list here, so please feel free to contact me directly.

Unrelated to the above, I'd like to start meeting those of you who'd be willing to come forward about your experience in any number of forums. Though I'm sure someone's already thought of this, I'm thinking a possible class-action lawsuit against the TFI, a film, a documentary, or, in my case if I'm lucky, an appearance on Oprah (Rachel appeared in the late 80s).

Thank you all for your time. I hope to see you around here again quite soon.


Anton Hill

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from colden
Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 21:41

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

You sir, are a whole new low!
(reply to this comment)

From colden
Monday, January 05, 2009, 22:29


the following is antons email on this comment:

I was low or Baxter? I didn't think I'd written anything offensive, but if I did, I do appologize.


Anton.(reply to this comment

from Baxter
Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 08:05

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)


Not exactly sure how to respond to this.

Regarding 'similar symptoms': how does a warning regarding the symptoms of a person unknown to us suffering ailment(s) unknown to us and undisclosed by you, suffice as a warning? How do we recognise similar syptoms when we don't know what we're looking for? Furthermore, to what do you portend by asserting that in sharing said undisclosed symptoms, that we are not long for this world?

Sorry, mate, that's just an  extremely confusing statement. And why would I email you if I don't know you, after reading said statement?

I don't mean to attack or offend you. I just find this article a bit confusing to say the least.
(reply to this comment)

From antonahill
Sunday, January 04, 2009, 21:51

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey Baxter,

Good points. And I wasn't offended. Oh, and I honestly don't mean any following offense.

I had not been specific because I'd felt that giving everyone on here a long list of terrible things that happened to my wife would be a bit of a downer. Yes, she's unknown to you, but if you are a CoG survivor then she has a great deal in common with you, more so than I do. If you have Rachel's symptoms, you will die. Plain and simple. And I don't mean in a rocking chair on the porch of your country house whilst sipping tea and watching your grandkids kind of way. I mean in less than a year. In agony.

Why would you e-mail me? Well, if you don't care about dying of a terrible disease, certainly don't. One of the reasons I came on here was simply to try and help those who may be in a similar situation to Rachel. Help those who might have a chance to do something about it before it's too late.

Rachel died because I gave the order to end life-support when it was determined that her brain had lost the ability to regain consciousness after a hemorrhage.

Rachel had the hemorrhage because her liver had shut down. Her liver shut down because she was in the middle (well, end) of end-stage liver disease.

No one could tell us why she had this disease. It was called non-genetic hemochromatosis (sp?). Essentially this was iron in the liver and heart.

Though I have no empirical evidence, I believe it's likely that Rachel got this disease either indirectly from her cult experience, given that she was raised in what she described as third-world living conditions with minimal food, sanitation, and other awful stuff, or directly as perhaps an STD of some kind. It's possible that her time in the CoG had nothing at all to do with her death, but if there was even a tiny chance and you or anyone else has suffered similar experiences and symptoms, then, well, as I said before, tell your loved ones you love them.

Among the symptoms...

Abdominal swelling. This was one of the big ones. This happens because the liver no longer processes liquids and toxins and so they collect in the abdomen.

Encephylopathy (sp?). This is also called confusion. Unfiltered toxins travel to the brain causing a pseudo-drunk state. This is recognizable when the victim can't form thoughts as they'd prefer. The mildest is the victim says "couch" when he/she means "bed" or something similar. The harshest is when the victim is speaking English words, but it's nonsensical.

Fatigue. This is not a great symptom of course, as many sufferers of fatigue do not suffer from end-stage liver disease. Rachel was "tired" for months and months with even up to 14 hours of sleep a day. So if you're feeling an inordinate need for naps, talk to a doctor.

Blood loss. This is both nasal and anal. At first, Rachel had blood in her stool at seemingly random times. Then it increased. Near her death, she had near-perpetual nosebleeds.

Loss of appetite. This was very, very near the end. Rachel, at some point, simply refused to eat. I believe this was her body's way of saying "I'm going to die in a week."

Vomiting. If you're doing this under "normal" circumstances, like you didn't get food poisoning, nor did you drink excessively, this is bad.

There are other symptoms, but these are the big ones.

On a personal note. As I often told Rachel, I have no idea what you guys went through. I don't pretend to. I wish I'd known something about what ultimately killed Rachel, but I didn't. At least not until it was way too late. But if any of you have anything close to what she had and can even buy yourself two months, you might just make it. Might.

Hope this helps with the confusion. And please do feel free to contact me directly if you so choose.


Anton.(reply to this comment
From Sorry for your loss
Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 01:16


Sounds very sad and difficult. Can the doctors tell you if it has anything to do with her upbringing? I might be wrong, but I think not. There may be a chain of events in regards to health, but I doubt that those symptoms are directly related to something from her childhood. Of course our minds and bodies are very connected, but the main thing most of us suffer from are phychological damages, emotional issues, self relationship problems and yes either over attachment to people or emotional detachment...both caused by fear of being hurt by love.

I dont think most of us are too interested in sharing our stories anymore. I personally feel that no matter what we do or say, justice will not be served. Not in this life.

I wish you peace (reply to this comment

From antonahill
Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 03:02

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey Sorry,

As I said, there is no empirical evidence of my suspicions of Rachel's being raised in the CoG having led to her death. Hep C was tossed around a bit. When I suggested the living conditions or the alleged repeated rape as leading to her death, no one said it was impossible, but there was no way to know for sure.

But yes, I think it's more than likely that Rachel's emotional make up had a lot to do with the fact that she absolutely refused to seek medical attention until it was way too late.

I understand if you're not interested in sharing your stories. I'm an outsider and so can't possibly relate. And it's not called I merely leave a proverbial sympathetic ear as I was (and still consider myself) married to one of you.


Anton.(reply to this comment
From murasaki
Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 04:57

So sorry for your loss. I can't begin to imagine the devastation you must be feeling, not only coping with the unexpected loss of a partner, but also not knowing the direct cause of her illness. On a purely medical note, I assume she tested for previous hepatitis infection, did any of the tests return positive for antibodies to hep A, B or C? (reply to this comment
From antonahill
Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 10:19

Hi Murasaki,

I honestly don't recall. Much of the 6-month process is now a complete blur. There were many tests and "scores" whose names I don't remember now and whose results I could never keep straight when Rachel was sick.


Anton.(reply to this comment
From Sorry
Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 03:44

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
I know you acknowledged that there was no empirical evidence to your suspicions, but you addressed the above to "us" as though we might be more susceptible to such an attack or illness then others. I appreciate your sentiment, sympathy and concern... while I know what you mean by "one of us" I just want to say that while we come from the same country per se, we are not the same. We all have very different ways of handling our past and we each find our own coping strategies and heal or not heal in our own ways. I do not see my self as "one of them" anymore. With a little time and distance.. some of "us" have become more normal (or less abnormal) than some who have had perfect lives.(reply to this comment
From antonahill
Tuesday, January 06, 2009, 10:26

Hi Sorry,

Actually, I don't assume you came from the same country at all. Rachel spoke of living in Egypt, Italy, Turkey, Greece, and Iran of possibly others. All I assume is that the conditions under which she lived were probably similar in each "home" and country. And the only real reason I assume that much is that's what Rachel told me. I also don't mean to lump all CoG survivors together except that, from my perspective, you're all CoG survivors whereas I'm not. Just going by Rachel's family, both she and her brother are/were CoG survivors, but her brother has been living on the streets for 20 years. Clearly he dealt with his experience differently than she. And you're absolutely right about "some of you" becoming more normal than those of us who were not raised in the cult.


Anton.(reply to this comment
From Randi
Wednesday, January 07, 2009, 02:12


I meant country as in society.

Sounds really sad... about the brother. What a great loss of life. I wish there was justice out there...(reply to this comment

From antonahill
Wednesday, January 07, 2009, 02:30

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey Randy,

Society, country, d'oh! Yes, when I met Dave Meyer (Rachel's brother) the first time, I thought, "Now there's a late-stage alcoholic if ever I saw one." I told Rachel not to expect that he'd make it to 35. Not only has he, but he's obviously survived his sister, and now I expect will make it to 40. But not much longer.

Yes, I wish there had been justice, have seen that there clearly is little, and so intend to make my own.


Anton.(reply to this comment
From Baxter
Monday, January 05, 2009, 16:02



Alright. Thanks for clarifying. I see that you really weren't just being cryptic for the sake of it. It just kinda sounded a bit freaky, like we all had some kind of 'RING' like phenomenon passing between exers, or something.

I am very sorry for your loss. The symptoms I carry from being in that mind-melting house of the dumbed is an unhealthy level of emotional detachment, so I won't lie and say I know how you feel (even when people I know die, it just feels slightly awkward). I guess a lot of things could kill us, and most of us were, like Rachel, in closer quarters to unhealthy elements as children. Then again, cause of death is a bit of an odd thing at times.

I hope that by asking this of you I haven't made anything worse for you.

 (reply to this comment

From antonahill
Monday, January 05, 2009, 16:17


Funny how we each make assumptions. Your comments have not made this worse. Rachel's friends ignoring me then one of them deciding not to come to her memorial has made it worse (although I did say some nasty shit about them as a group on my blog site). Oh, and my constant nightmares, anxieties, the fact that I'm a visually-impaired, non-driving owner of a vehicle I can't afford, and my constant loss of appetite and nausea all make it worse. But I digress.

You may have some Ring thing among you. I don't know. I just felt that warning you about something that ultimately won't happen to you was better than keeping quiet and your dying in a hospital.

Yes, I've heard of the emotional attachment. Rachel had a bit of that. it's funny, actually, she was both one of the more emotional and least emotional people I'd ever met.

So, anyway, if you have any of the symptoms I listed, get your ass to a doctor and maybe, just maybe, you won't die in six months. If you have never experienced any of the symptoms, looks like you dodged at least this bullet.

And if you'd like to know anything else about Rachel or her experience, or fill-in-the-blank, feel free to post more or write me directly.


Anton.(reply to this comment

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