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Getting Support : For the Geeks
Anonymous comments | from Oddman - Monday, April 14, 2008
accessed 984 times Just about the current poll. I'm not going into anything lengthy here. I was just interested in what everyone really thinks, who thinks what, and why. I would rather have the anonymous comment function remain, although I see benefits to being able to tell which anonymous comments come from the same anonymous poster.
I think if anonymous posting was not allowed everyone would just use 10 IDs instead of the usual 9. A lot of users have a public persona of sorts, but may want to pitch an alternative opinion -which may not be their own- to see the response. Other times, one may want to comment, without getting involved in a continuing debate. Also, there are some issues that one may prefer stating without making a connection with their real-life identity. If one has photographs on their profile they could be identified in real life, which would discourage some from mentioning "yes, your dad happened to finger me when I was 4." Previous comments could have given away ones identity as well. That not withstanding, it would help if we could tell one anonymous poster from another, especially if two are involved in a debate.
Anyways, I know this doesn't really merit it's own article, but I didn't want to hijack somebodies article. At least not today. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from slash
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 06:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm kinda torn on this subject. The anon posting gets used a lot for flame wars, bitching etc - but i still like the idea of anonymous posting in theory:
For example, it can be hard to talk about your abuse when you haven't built up the courage to reveal it to your friends/brothers/sisters. The worry that you might be recognised, may cause some people to stay silent.
All that said, creating another username with no identifiable info or pictures could probably do the job just as well.
(reply to this comment)
| from slash
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 06:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
I kinda torn on this subject. The anon posting gets used a lot for flame wars, bitching etc - but i still like the idea of anonymous posting in theory:
For example, it can be hard to talk about your abuse when you haven't built up the courage to reveal it to your friends/brothers/sisters. The worry that you might be recognised, may cause some people to stay silent.
All that said, creating another username with no identifiable info or pictures could probably do the job just as well.
(reply to this comment)
| from Mr. Uncredible? :'(
Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 09:08
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Doesn't everything posted on the internet lack credibility to some extent?
My main ID Oddman has photos of myself in the profile. I did this so people who know me can identify and contact me as neccessary. This has been useful, and I have contacted a number of old acquaintances. (There have also been instances where I've bumped into other exers I had never met, but they knew Oddman. Small world.) My Oddie ID was made to cope with a very glitchy chatroom, which has since been improved but is still glitchy nonetheless. I have a number of other monikers I use at times for comedic effect, others to share the Mr. Hyde in me, or share personal thoughts that I would otherwise not share with others. Some users I trust know most if not all of my monikers, and I do believe there is a mutual understanding that I not disclose their other IDs, and they not disclose mine.
That not withstanding, the anonymous function still has its benefits. There are just as many pros to the anonymous function, as there are cons. Perhaps a comment must be made, however the possible effects on the dynamics between two users may be undesirable to the anonymously posting party. Perhaps one would like to contribute to the community, without maintaining a visible presence. I don't know. Attaching an ID to a comment is giving the comment a face, somebody that can be responded to. An anonymous comment is just that, anonymous. And sometimes, I prefer it that way.
At the end of the day, Admin have the oversight and resources to identify the user IDs associated with any anonymous comments, don't they? Besides, if any comment is just too plain snide to merit response, you could always TP it, ignore it, or waste your time responding if you care to.
It's not like I have a massive hard-on for anonymous posting, but I tend to think the fewer the restrictions, the greater the participation. I can cope with it's demise if that is the way it must be. I'll just chalk up ten more IDs.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from Handel
Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 12:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
What kind of credibility does a handle have without a real name? With 5000 people (or however many members are on this site) I’m sure not all of them are ex S.G.A’s and I’m sure not all the member are going to get along---anonymous or not.
(reply to this comment)
|  From Teji
Thursday, April 17, 2008, 06:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
* members. By the way, I said the above comment (I have a few handles.) "Kelly" is not the only "bad guy” and, as far as I am concerned, Kelly (and by that I mean a number of them—all male and significantly older then me) can go to hell! At least I was brave enough to stand up and say that. P.S. I have nothing personal against males, females or homosexuality for that matter. Also, I just thought I might add, this is not meant as a personal attack parse... just thought I’d say what I had to say be "Upfront" about it. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From cheeks
Wednesday, April 16, 2008, 13:28
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Most of us here know each other. While my legal name is not posted on my profile you can find it several times on the site. I'll say it again. When you post your handle it adds validity to what you say. I am not going to argue with a faceless coward which is what someone is who is not willing to use their user name when they say negative things. If you want to be an asshole at least be man/woman enough to post you handle.(reply to this comment) |
| | from Samuel
Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 18:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
Let's see. Jules has a point that if someone is going to make a snide remark, they should be man enough to use their user name and stand behind the comment. Oddman says that if anonymous posting is banned people will just use a larger number of ID's.
I don't think making attacks via an anonymous name shows cowardice, and says more about the person saying it than the person it is being said to. But I don't think anonymous posts should be banned, as they do have worth and can be helpful when used appropriately. Consider the following humorous comments, all of which were posted anonymously.
from hell yeah!
Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 14:38
(Agree/Disagree?)
Chuck Palahniuk is god!...after Borat, of course.
From interesting comment on social psychopaths
Sunday, April 13, 2008, 08:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...."a prime characteristic of narcissists is believing that they are always right no matter what, narcissists are extremely resistant to change and, unfortunately, tend to get worse as they get older.
I have also never had to cope with a physically aggressive or sadistic narcissist. The narcissists I've known have pretty much stuck to neglect and verbal and emotional abuse. But lots of people have not been so lucky, and their narcissist parents or partners have been relentlessly interfering and cruel in efforts to reform and re-form their "beloveds," including but not limited to plastic surgery or bleaching and perming little babies' hair to make them more perfectly beautiful blondes. [If you had a narcissist for a parent, you may find some of these books helpful.]
Nearly everyone has some narcissistic traits. It's possible to be arrogant, selfish, conceited, or out of touch without being a narcissist. The practical test, so far as I know, is that with normal people, no matter how difficult, you can get some improvements, at least temporarily, by saying, essentially, "Please have a heart." This doesn't work with narcissists; in fact, it usually makes things worse.
It's impossible to overemphasize the importance of narcissists' lack of empathy. It colors everything about them. I have observed very closely some narcissists I've loved, and their inability to pay attention when someone else is talking is so striking that it has often seemed to me that they have neurological problems that affect their cognitive functioning.
These are educated people with high IQs, who've had ordinary middle-class backgrounds and schooling, and their thinking is not only illogical but weird: with narcissists, you have to know them pretty well to understand their behavior. For instance, they always fill in their gaps (which make up just about the entirety of their visible life) with bits of behavior, ideas, tastes, opinions, etc., borrowed from someone else whom they regard as an authority. Their authoritative sources, as far as I know, are always people they've actually known, not something from a book, for instance, and narcissists' opinions may actually come from someone you know, too, but who is not to you obviously an authority on the matter at hand, so narcissists can seem totally arbitrary, virtually random in their motivations and reasoning.
They are evidently transfixed by a static fantasy image of themselves, like Narcissus gazing at his reflection, and this produces an odd kind of stillness and passivity. Because their inner life is so restricted and essentially dead, it doesn't contain images of how to live a full life -- these things are not important to them, they expect others to look after day-to-day chores, they resent wasting their specialness on common things, they don't put their heart into their work (though they'll tell you how many hours they put into it), they borrow their opinions and preferences and tastes from whomever strikes them as authoritative at the moment.
From my personal experience, and from what I've seen in the clinical literature, narcissists don't talk about their inner life -- memories, dreams, reflections -- much at all. They rarely recount dreams. They seem not to make typical memory associations -- i.e., in the way one thing leads to another, "That reminds me of something that happened when I was...of something I read...of something somebody said...." They don't tell how they learned something about themselves or the world. They don't share their thoughts or feelings or dreams. They don't say, "I have an idea and need some help," or "There's something I've always wanted to do...did you ever want to do that?"
They do not discuss how they've overcome difficulties they've encountered or continuing problems that they're trying to solve (beyond trying to get someone else to do what they want). They often say that they don't remember things from the past, such as childhood events, their schooldays or old friends, and it seems to me that they really don't most of the time.
Anyhow, for all these reasons, I've tried to refrain from speculating about (i.e., novelizing) what goes on in their heads. Writer John Cheever (who recorded having been diagnosed as a narcissist when he went to marriage counseling at his wife's insistence) describes some of his persistent fantasy images -- and, with Cheever, they're very striking, as you'll know if you've read any of his fiction; his characters and plots tend to be narcissistic (i.e., self-obsessed tunnel vision spiraling into nihilism), but his stories often contain memorably glorious set pieces or tableaux, such as the the hunt for the golden Easter egg in one of the Wapshot novels. Cheever also gives unself-conscious expression to the ways in which his obsessive preoccupation with himself (and his penis -- sort of a magic wand in his mind) obstructed his ability to relate to his wife and children, obstructed even his ability to perceive them: to see what they looked like, to pay attention to what they said and did, though with Cheever everything is also soaked with the sorrows of gin.
Alice Adams's novel, Almost Perfect, also gives things from a narcissistic point of view in a way that I found convincing and credible, based on my personal experience of narcissistic individuals. A striking thing about narcissists that you'll notice if you know them for a long time is that their ideas of themselves and the world don't change with experience; the ones I've known have been stalled at a vision that came to them by the age of sixteen.
There are different theories of how narcissists are made. Some psychologists trace NPD to early infantile neglect or abuse, and some blame over-indulgence and indiscriminate praise by parents who don't set limits on what's acceptable from their children. Others say that NPD shows up in adolescence. Some say narcissists tend to peak around middle age and then mellow out. Others say that narcissists stay pretty much the same except they tend to depression as they get older and their grandiose fantasies are not supported, plus they're not as good-looking as they used to be. The narcissists I've known have apparently always been "that way" and they get worse as they get older, with dramatic regression of their personas after the deaths of their parents and other personal authority figures who have previously exerted some control over the narcissists' bad behavior. And, yes, chronic depression gets to be obvious at least by their forties but may have always been present. Depressed narcissists blame the world, of course, and not themselves for their personal disappointments.
Essentially, narcissists are unable or unwilling to trust either the world or other people to meet their needs. Perhaps they were born to parents unable to connect emotionally and, thus, as infants learned not to let another person be essential to them in any way. Perhaps NPD starts later, when intrusive or abusive parents make it dangerous for the child to accept other people's opinions and valuations. Maybe it comes from a childhood environment of being treated like royalty or little gods. Whatever the case, narcissists have made the terrible choice not to love. In their imaginations, they are complete unto themselves, perfect and not in need of anything anyone else can give them. (NB: Narcissists do not count their real lives -- i.e., what they do every day and the people they do it with -- as worth anything.) Their lives are impoverished and sterile; the price they pay for their golden fantasies is high: they'll never share a dream for two.
Now, it is possible to have a relatively smooth relationship with a narcissist, and it's possible to maintain it for a long time. The first requirement for this, though, is distance: this simply cannot be done with a narcissist you live with. Given distance, or only transient and intermittent contact, you can get along with narcissists by treating them as infants: you give them whatever they want or need whenever they ask and do not expect any reciprocation at all, do not expect them to show the slightest interest in you or your life (or even in why you're bothering with them at all), do not expect them to be able to do anything that you need or want, do not expect them to apologize or make amends or show any consideration for your feelings, do not expect them to take ordinary responsibility in any way. But note: they are not infants; infants develop and mature and require this kind of care for only a brief period, after which they are on the road to autonomy and looking after themselves, whereas narcissists never outgrow their demands for dedicated attention to their infantile needs 168 hours a week.
Adult narcissists can be as demanding of your time and energy as little babies but without the gratification of their growing or learning anything from what they suck from you. Babies love you back, but adult narcissists are like vampires: they will take all you can give while giving nothing back, then curse you for running dry and discard you as a waste of their precious time.
It is also essential that you keep emotional distance from narcissists. They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the hell out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure. That is, as long as they think you don't count or they're afraid of you, they'll treat you well enough that you may mistake it for love. But, as soon as you try to get close to them, they'll say that you are too demanding -- and, if you ever say "I love you," they'll presume that you belong to them as a possession or an appendage, and treat you very very badly right away. The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and it's so contrary to normal experience that I was plenty old before I realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions.
Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off -- just like that, sometimes trashing you and all your friends on the way out the door. The narcissist will treat you just like a broken toy or tool or an unruly body part: "If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off" [Matt. 18:8]. This means you.
So, yes, it's possible to get along with narcissists, but it's probably not worth bothering with. If family members are narcissists, you have my deep sympathy. If people you work with are narcissists, you will be wise to keep an eye on them, if just for your own protection, because they don't think very well, no matter what their IQs, they feel that the rules (of anything) don't apply to them, and they will always cut corners and cheat wherever they think they can get away with it, not to mention alienating co-workers, clients, and customers by their arrogance, lies, malice, and off-the-wall griping. Narcissists are threatened and enraged by trivial disagreements, mistakes, and misunderstandings, plus they have evil mouths and will say ANYTHING, so if you continue to live or work with narcissists, expect to have to clean up after them, expect to lose friends over them, expect big trouble sooner or later.
If you're reading this because of problems with someone you know now, the chances are excellent that one or both of your parents was a narcissist. Narcissists are so much trouble that only people with special prior training (i.e., who were raised by narcissists) get seriously involved with them.
Sometimes narcissists' children become narcissists, too, but this is by no means inevitable, provided stable love was given by someone, such as the non-narcissist parent or grandparents. Beyond that, a happy marriage will heal many old wounds for the narcissist's child.
But, even though children of narcissists don't automatically become narcissists themselves and can survive with enough intact psychically to lead happy and productive lives away from their narcissistic parents, because we all love our parents whether they can love us back or not, children of narcissists are kind of bent -- "You can't get blood out of a stone," but children of narcissists keep trying, as if by bonding with new narcissists we could somehow cure our narcissistic parents by finding the key to their heart. Thus, we've been trained to keep loving people who can't love us back, and we will often tolerate or actively work to maintain connections with narcissistic individuals whom others, lacking our special training, find alienating and repellent from first contact, setting ourselves up to be hurt yet again in the same old way.
Once narcissists know that you care for them, they'll suck you dry -- demand all your time, be more work than a newborn babe -- and they'll test your love by outrageous demands and power moves. In their world, love is a weakness and saying "I love you" is asking to be hurt, so be careful: they'll hurt you out of a sort of sacred duty. They can't or won't trust, so they will test your total devotion. If you won't submit to their tyranny, then you will be discarded as "no good," "a waste of time," "you don't really love me or you'd do whatever I ask," "I give up on you." (Note: In many instances, narcissists' demands are not only outrageous but also impossible to fulfill even if you want to please them. Plus if you actually want to do what they want you to do, that would be too much like sharing, so they won't want it anymore.)
If you've had a narcissist for a parent, you are probably not afraid of dying and going to hell -- you have lived hell on Earth. Narcissists cannot be satisfied and do a tremendous amount of damage to their children and partners in their relentless demand for a perfect outer appearance to reflect the perfect inner image that obsesses them.
Here follows a discussion of traits I've observed in the half-dozen or so narcissists of both sexes that I've known well over many years. Remember that narcissism is a personality disorder and narcissists' personalities are disordered: they don't make sense! They are not concerned with making sense and they are also impulsive, so you will waste your time trying to understand the details of every little thing they do.
from one who knows
Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 10:51
(Agree/Disagree?)
Below is for informational purposes only. May not reflect the CURRENT structure of SSU, as the names credited above are over 5 years old, and were never updated by SSU.
Robert Fernandez: aka Solomon, no longer a member of TF, but still the producer of 'sunny side up' productions. His name is still on the board of directors for SSU.
Miguel Ortiz: SGA Former member. aka 'migs'. animator.
Phil Braaten: SGA, fulltime MM member. aka Philly, Philly Dee. He is the son of Japanese Phoenix, the current equivalent of CRO for Japan. Animator.
Clifford Scott: SGA, Former member. aka 'Caleb", although he hasnt gone by that for years, Husband of Dacil Bettinger. computer art and design.
Dacil Bettinger: SGA, Former Member. aka 'Florence', wife of Clifford Scott, daughter of 'Gabe and Sunshine'. Voice of cherub.
Brandon Roberts: SGA, Former member (favorable). aka 'David G', former finance man for SSU.
David Bowman: SGA, Former member. No known aliases. Son of 'Sia' and 'Big Josh'. Animator.
Jerry Greene: FGA, Current member. aka 'Jerry Paladino', one of the most famous and talented Family musicians. Sings the opening theme song, and others.
See what I mean?
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Ne Oublie
Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 15:06
(Agree/Disagree?)
... as if setting up a new profile isn't easy enough.
I say, get rid of the anonymous option, and just let people post attributably.
(reply to this comment)
| from cheeks
Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 07:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
I haven't used the anonymous option in quite some time. If I say something I am going to stand behind it. If I am rude to someone I obviously did it deliberately. It makes me think, somewhat depending I am not drunk, on what I am going say. To me it is a way of being true to myself and not being a coward. If I don't like you, I don't like you and I am going to tell it straight to your fictitious name.
I am not ashamed of who I am, I am not ashamed of what happened to me and I am not ashamed of what I have to say. This is me take it or leave it.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from sar
Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 05:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
One is able to argue more easily with oneself on a public forum without appearing insane, thanks to the anonymous user option. Having another user ID could also work, but there is the risk that someone would find out that they are one person and that person would then appear insane. A good reason, I think, for keeping the anonymous user option available.
In any case who cares if some anonymous person is rude or doesn't agree with them on something? Why would one get upset if some unidentifiable person at an unknown location which one may or may not have met states that he/she considers one to be [something not so nice]? It seems to me to be too impersonal for one to get upset about. It also seems to me that an insult only really works when one cares about the opinion of the person giving the insult. I do not see why one would care about the stated opinion of an unknown, however insulting that person may have intended it to be.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From sar
Monday, April 21, 2008, 13:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
One might argue with oneself for any number of reasons, for example: one might, figuratively, be in two minds on a given topic, but wish to appear indecisive; one might wish to present two sides of an argument but give the appearance of bias; one might relish the challenge of creating two thorough arguments; one might insult oneself anonymously to garner sympathetic attention from readers; or one might simply consider it amusing. This list is not exhaustive and I have left out reasons one might argue with oneself unwittingly. It may not be the best reason to keep the anonymous user option, but I think its a reason and so a valid one.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | from rainy
Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 02:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanks for bringing it up Oddie.
I dropped a brief note to Jules when I saw her poll. I too favour keeping the ability to comment anonymously, but after seeing her feelings about it I promised her not to use it for reasons of cowardice ever again. I will only use it for the reasons you stated above.
(reply to this comment)
| from madly
Monday, April 14, 2008 - 20:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know... I almost always use my user name and even when I don’t, everyone knows I am also “truly” “madly” and “deeply”, oh and let’s not forget “savage”. I do see your point, but I also don't like it when users attack other users and don't have the guts to use their user name.
My user name doesn't give away my identity, but that is one of the reasons I don’t put pictures on here.
I guess since I have been recently barraged by many anonymous hateful comments, I may be a bit bias in regards to this subject; even though, I do know who the person was. Thanks to me, I guess you all do.
Whatever, I guess I don’t care enough to care to care.
I hope life is good, oddie. I haven’t heard from you for awhile. I hope I see you in chat sometime soon. Take care of your beautiful self. xx
(reply to this comment)
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