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Getting Support : Speaking Out


from Skanska - Saturday, January 08, 2005
accessed 2391 times

Article about the group on Wikipedia

Hello everyone!

I recently registered on this site and noticed that there hasn't been any discussion about the article on the group at Wikipedia. This article has been "up" for around two years and has been actively edited since then (and is continually edited every day).

The link is:




The editing involved includes people who were never involved with this group (but are interested and knowledgeable), current members, and former members (both SGAs and FGAs).

Current members of TFI ("pro-COG editors") include:

- Cognomen/Cognomen2 (probably Nathaniel; aka NTL)

- Audiofree (Christian Kelly; aka Jon A., son of Peter Amsterdam)

- Kibbitzer

- Details/Details2

- Mindsports

- (IP address registered to FCF)


Former TFI members (both SGA and FGA) and users who were never involved with this group include:

- ThePedanticPrick

- Thorwald

- WalkerJ

- Indian Joe


- Cassandra

- Farmer

- gcom

- Andries

- (and many others)

Reader's comments on this article

Add a new comment on this article

from Mad as Hell
Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 19:14


I just looked at the wikipedia site, and you're right, they absolutely slimed it.

That article is full of downright insulting belittlements to SGA's. It says, for one thing that many of us "...chose to leave the group to CONTINUE our education..." There was no "continuing" believe me, my education BEGAN when I left that mind-trap.

Could someone make it their mission to destroy that site in favor of the other one we set up? (You know, the one that actually has Mo letters and facts in it.)
(reply to this comment)

From Perspective
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 21:49

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(

"Putting things in perspective, the raids on COG communities in Argentina, France, Australia, and Spain were all AFTER "1978, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988 or 1989". They were perpetrated by anti-cult organizations aided by some ex-members, who "sicced" the authorities and press on the COG churches/homes, resulting in HUNDREDS of innocent and unabused children (of all ages, from babies to teens) being emotionally, physically, and sexually abused ("examined") by misguided authorities. I don't hear (retroactive) objections from COG critics here about these proven atrocities (kidnapping, false reporting, child abuse, etc.), which were reported and documented worldwide. In each country it was the judicial system that found there were no grounds for such actions and had the children returned to their parents, and any incarcerated adults released (and in some cases substantial compensation was paid by government agencies). Why are you not demanding the perpetrators of these proven crimes be brought to justice? " to this comment

From ..........
Thursday, August 04, 2005, 10:42

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
I don't know about any other of you exers out there, but my memories during the Argentina “persecutions” were far from the above statement.

I remember wishing I was one of the kids who had gotten taken away from their parents. I remember praying for persecution to happen in the country I lived in, so that they’d take us away from our parents and we’d be given a chance to live a normal life. I was about 11 when these “persecutions” happened in Argentina, and although I wasn’t there, I’ve met many of the “innocent” kids who were “so cruelly” taken from their parents. From the stories I heard from them, they had fun when they were away from their parents. They were allowed to eat good food, watch movies and TV, didn’t have to slave their buts of cleaning, no devotions (remember how much we used to hate devotions time?), no spankings, and many other things. I can’t believe the utter denial these people are in.

For the government to feel the need to examine hundreds of kids and temporarily take them away from the parents, I’d say they had some pretty good leads.

And the fact that no one was convicted is not anything TF should be proud about, it just goes to show how well they’ve learn to hide their sick teachings. Even though the “persecution” didn’t happen in the country I lived in, I remember being questioned by many police and media spokespeople, and I remember blatantly lying too. I remember being told what to say, what details to give the cops, and what not to say. I remember there were things we could under no circumstances say because they would “not understand, and only try to ‘persecute’ us even more”. I am a perfect witness to the total mind control we were under. I remember some media people came to our house for an interview; I was one of the kids chosen to answer some questions that the person was going to ask. I answered the one about my name and age, and when they started asking questions about the abuse, I froze and started crying, I was torn between telling the truth, how I really felt, and telling what I was told to say. The interview was not done privately, there were adults all around, I was scared to death I would say something that I would be spanked for later. All I remember is that when I started crying some adult took over the interview and said that I was just “shy” and that’s why I behaved that way. The adult had no idea why I really started crying, she just lied blatantly to the media, assuming she knew exactly what was wrong with me.

Stop living a lie!(reply to this comment
From xolox
Thursday, August 04, 2005, 11:03

Maybe it was fun for a week or two, then the adults got their act together and began to treat the holding institutions as regular homes. In my opinion it was no fun at all. But that's thanks to the family adults.(reply to this comment
From one more thing
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 21:56

"Some ex-members later wrote partial apologies for their participation, but others persist in their endeavours to curtail the rights of individuals to follow their freely chosen beliefs."(reply to this comment
From the repost man
Thursday, August 04, 2005, 18:04

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(

Sexual Abuse is a Form of Violence too

Posted by Survivor for Life on August 04, 2005 at 17:38:41

In Reply to: Re: You know it's a good cult to raise kids in when this is how they t posted by Former CPS Worker on August 04, 2005 at 11:02:56:

In that same Wikipedia discussion, one of the Family posters notes, in emphasizing that Ricky committed a violent murder, that he was "skilled in the martial arts" and Sue was half his size.

Apparently it does not matter to them how many times his size were the adults who fellated him as a toddler -- quite a bit more than twice his size, according to the photos, which they published -- or the size differential that persisted, though narrowing in margin, as he grew up.

Apparently it does not matter to them that those same adults were "skilled" in terms of life experience while he was but a baby, but they kept him in a fishbowl as he grew up.

I do not agree at all with Ricky's final actions. I understand, however, the overwhelming frustration at a smug, self-righteous cult that does not grasp the violent nature of their own acts on children.

The power exerted to keep Ricky's body in obedience and his mind and spirit within the electric fences of the cult's core was total. The iron fist may have worn a velours glove, but it bruised no less for it.

I will work, probably as long as I breathe, to stop the cycle of violence, whether it be that which the cult does recognize as violence (i.e., Ricky's using the muscle and firepower he eventually acquired to do an act that to him signified revenge) and wrong, or that which the cult perpetrated when they violated us, but considers something that we can forget and pretend did not happen, and which they seem to have no capacity to acknowledge as violent and wrong, much less have it in their hearts to feel for those of us who endured it, a glimmer of the indignation that such violative acts merit or of opprobrium toward the perpetrators.

Peter Amsterdam, if you are listening, something that your spokespersons on wikipedia etc. would be smart to do, is to recognize the violent nature of the child abuse that your cult perpetrated on its older children, as well as the EXTREME violence of their denials and attempts to reverse the burden of guilt onto the survivors. Right now they only see Ricky's final act in response as violent. You're not going to get anywhere at this rate, at least not anywhere good.

The current Family posters on wikipedia seem oblivious to having learned any of the lessons of 2005. Of course what Ricky did was a crime, brutal, and wrong, but what his mother and some of her followers did to his peers is bad enough that they took the tone they did. You see, there are some people who are actually horrified at child abuse. And I am not talking about Maria's 1988 commands which curiously repeat how "not necessary" it is for adults to have sex with children.

Family wikinazis, as a terribly abused survivor, I am here to clue you in that if you truly want to walk the road to peace, your current denials or minimizations belie that. They are enraging and provoking. If something else happens, your own words will, when juxtaposed with the testimony that we bear (which you call variously a "crime" of false reporting, "false witness," or "atrocity"), will undermine your most strenuous protestations.

(reply to this comment

from The Pedantic Prick
Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 17:44

Apparently, some admin with no sense of humor has blocked me, claiming my username is offensive and inappropriate. This is bad, because the lunatics(read: Family members) are currently running the asylum at Wikipedia. If you're tired of seeing the Family propagandize itself into acceptance, get over there and start editing!
(reply to this comment)
From farmer
Thursday, August 04, 2005, 18:14


Well, some other admins must surely have some sense of humor, considering the following one:

It caught my attention, because it means pigletsparade.Also what he shares on his user site is quite "pricky"...

I guess the pedantic part wasn't the problem ; ) as we conclude from the following admin's name:

I got them from the list of admins...may be you find some other "offensive" ones & have a case to either save your name...or being forced to change it?

(reply to this comment

From Trix
Thursday, August 04, 2005, 11:41

I just found out about this article a few days ago and have started reading it with intention to edit places. I have actually edited some places but I don't understand how the whole thing works. Would someone mind explaining what the process is to edit the article? Do I have to state what I edited somewhere for people to read? Or can I just edit freely and someone will correct my edits when they feel the need?

There are a few statements that I consider to be straight out lies. For example, in the section of beliefs it says that “they enter into monogamous marriages”. Since when? Ever since I remember breathing while in TF, couples were encouraged to have extramarital sex! There are many cases that I've heard of where the "families" have threesome parents (2 females and one male). How could this complete lie be put there?

There are other places I really feel need to be edited. If someone can help me out here, I would appreciate it.(reply to this comment
From JohnnieWalker
Friday, August 05, 2005, 22:38

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Francis Fisherman, who lives in Zerby's home, has two wives. Legally, I would assume, he is only married to one, but he certainly considers both to be his wife.

Polygamy in TFI is certainly practiced far less these days that in the past decades, but, I think it would be safe to say that while most members practice monogamous marriage, polygamy is not discouraged or frowned upon.(reply to this comment

Saturday, August 06, 2005, 15:26

Are you saying that most members do not practice the Law if Love when it comes to sexual sharing? My impression is that most people's idea of "monogamous marriage" does not include swinging (sharing).(reply to this comment
From farmer
Thursday, August 04, 2005, 04:28


Sorry, I haven't been "over there" for a long time.Just reading the front-page makes me wonder, who edited it...Berg a prophetic leader?! him a leader or false prophet, either way or better something worse still.Does anybody have a version, a safety-copy, of what is so to speak the last "approved version" of the "live-out-children-of-the-culties" of the Wikipedia-article . Was it the reason [the many pro-TF-changes], that other editors left, to form x-family?

(Please pardon this made up name/label/reference for the lack of something better, cult-survivors isn't too bad, but may be a bit too close to Nazi-concentrationcamp-survivors...Jews in Germany are very, very attentive to inappropiate semantics & correct anything wrong in their eyes, so it rubbed a bit off on me...but you're all(Nancy?!) welcome to correct me on that one...I think for some/many of you it might have felt nonetheless as something mighty fact, I thought of researching more about the incredible force of delusion, which brought fascism into power...some time ago I was struck by the similarities...I mean, you have disaster-survivors, may be cult-survivor is after all a pretty good description??I know for sure, that the label ex-members isn't fitting so well & is offensive to many of you, although in many clubs (alright, TF isn't any club) children are simply members, becauce their parents are...wouldn't it be beneficial in general, to discuss, what the best wording could be like?)

I was a bit concerned by the "unfriendly" blocking of you...I am sure you knew the remedy before I now looked it up...I guess, TF is proud of that silly "warfare".

Who monitors the conduct of an administrator?

Administrators monitor each other; nearly all admin powers are completely reversible by any other admin (including page deletions, lockings, and IP bannings, but not currently including deletion of uploaded files). The Arbitration Committee also has the power to discipline administrators, and has done so in several cases. In a truly rare case the Wikimedia Board of Trustees could step in. In any case, you have the RightToFork and the RightToLeave.

How can I unban an IP?

Administrators can go to Special:Ipblocklist and click on "unblock" as required. Developers can unblock multiple IPs at once.

(reply to this comment

from The Pedantic Prick
Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 12:20


First, allow me to thank you for giving me top billing among ex-member contributors, though Thorwald really deserves that honour, having made much more meaningful contributions than I. Second, am I the only one who dislikes hearing it referred to as "the group"? It's not an Alc-anon club. On this site, at the very least, I think we can do away with the euphemisms and call it "the cult". Call a spade a spade, people!


The Pedantic Prick
(reply to this comment)

From wind
Wednesday, August 03, 2005, 19:56

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
By making the trauma based mind control cult we were forced to grow up in look like a religion adds to the feeling of abandonment . It's a nightmare to see the cog websites where they portray the clean cut christian youth and you know they're getting support as they white wash the past.
Its our job to keep telling the truth, whether or not you suffered abuse ( which is highly unlikely) it was an accepted part of the doctrine. We never had a safe haven as children our lives were filled with fear, punishment and isolation, and abuse. But we made it through, I hope they all go to jail and rot. (reply to this comment

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