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Getting Real : This Site Sucks

think think think

from devilcatcher - Tuesday, May 09, 2006
accessed 2090 times

think more





i didn't write this. it is a GN that i think will be good for you. think first then comment. i would like to have a SERIOUS debate







WHY THE FAMILY? DFO 752 20/12/78

1. WHY DID YOU GUYS JOIN THE FAMILY ANYWAY?--Let's get back to the basics, right down to the brass tacks: You didn't have to join the Family to get saved, you didn't have to join the Family to find the Lord. So, what was the point in joining? (Peter: To get training.) Right!

2. We're like a school . We're a fellowship , what the churches call a church . But is fellowship the whole thing? (Peter: No.) Well, what is the whole thing? What's our excuse for living? (Peter: To tell the World about Jesus, to witness.) Right! If you're not going to be a witness and tell other folks about the Lord, what's your excuse for living?

3. After you were saved , why didn't you just go back to your system job and just keep on working for a living and just keep on loving the Lord & going to church, etc.? (Peter: Because I has gone to church before & it didn't do anything for me. But I knew that the Family was following the Bible & the church wasn't, so I figured that was the thing to do.) So, you really liked us more than church? (Peter: Yes.)

4. DO YOU THINK THE FAMILY DID YOU ANY GOOD? (Peter: Oh yes!) How? (Peter: Well, when I got saved I wouldn't have known what to do if it hadn't been for the Family. If it hadn't been for their training & the fellowship & the Letters & being together, I don't know what would have happened to me!) Well, that's true, because when you are born again you're just a babe in Christ, & you really do need spiritual parents to help you & to protect you & feed you & help you grow.

5. When a baby is born he needs a family --a mother to care for him, a father to provide for him, & brothers & sisters to help him & teach him & play with him. When a baby is first born, several things just come automatically: He doesn't have to be taught to cry or taught to eat or taught to eliminate or taught to squirm & kick & so on--that all comes automatically, right? He is born with it. But then what do you have to do?

6. You need to start teaching & training him to do certain things. Particularly you're making progress when you teach him to do things for himself that you used to have to do for him, right? So when you learn to really take care of yourself, you have really made a lot of progress. But when do you really become a full-fledged adult?--

7. When you have to take care of not only yourself, but others !--Then you are an adult!--Then you are a parent, a leader, then you have spiritually matured. Spiritually speaking, that means when you can bear the spiritual babies!-And not only when you can bear them, but when you can also take care of them & train them & rear them, until they have grown & can take care of themselves & others!--Then you are an adult!

8. SO YOU THINK IT'S PRETTY GOOD TO HAVE A FAMILY? But what if the Family starts getting selfish, & doesn't want any more children, & doesn't want old Uncle Harry & Aunt Mary & everybody else to move in with them, & doesn't want to take care of Grandma & Grandpa & the poor relatives, widows & orphans anymore?--They like it the way it is.

9. Isn't that the picture of the average American family?--Living just as selfishly as they can possibly live, right? Does it sound a little bit familiar?--Hmmm? Of course, our Family is not like that, are they!?--None of our homes would be like that, would they?--Huh?

10. Honestly, has our Family gotten to the point where we don't want any more children --And we don't want new disciples ? Have you heard of any of our Homes like that? Do you think you, as a new disciple , would be as welcome today as you were seven years ago? Well, Beloved, we may think we're getting away with it, but we're not going to get away with it with God! It doesn't matter where we are, are we going to start living just as selfishly there as we would at home & as our parents did before us?

11. Has our Family changed ? Beloved, I'm sorry to say, I'm afraid you have!--And maybe that's why God is chastening us with persecution--We haven't been bearing enough fruit, or we're complaining about the fruit He's already given us! And when you come to the point where you want to stand still, you're going to backslide!--All the way home!

12. Think about it! If you're not going to win souls & haven't room for new disciples, "Why the Family?" May God have mercy on us & help us repent!--Amen? GBAKYAMYAB!!--With more Family!



Copyright (c) 1998 by The Family

Reader's comments on this article

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from GenBethlehem
Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 01:59

(Agree/Disagree?)

Buddy, knowledge is useless without wisdom. I just went through about 3 days of blogs defining this, and I don't think we're in the clear yet.

Everyone here knows the Word. Most of them hate it. It's probably not the wisest thing to use as ammo in your arguement...

I know you feel passionately about TF...but descretion is oft the better part of valor.

Email me. I sent you something.
(reply to this comment)

from GenBethlehem
Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 01:58

(Agree/Disagree?)

Buddy, knowledge is useless without wisdom. I just went through about 3 days of blogs defining this, and I don't think we're in the clear yet.

Everyone here knows the Word. Most of them hate it. It's probably not the wisest thing to use as ammo in your arguement...

I know you feel passionately about TF...but descretion is oft the better part of valor.

Email me. I sent you something.
(reply to this comment)

from devilcatcher
Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:14

(Agree/Disagree?)
i'm sorry i posted this. i gess i didn't really think before.
(reply to this comment)
From Fish
Friday, May 12, 2006, 05:02

(Agree/Disagree?)
I smell an unwashed troll.(reply to this comment
From devilcatcher
Monday, May 22, 2006, 01:59

(Agree/Disagree?)
sorry but can someone tell me where to find the story ''the amazing cat''(reply to this comment
From JohnnieWalker
Monday, May 22, 2006, 06:52

(Agree/Disagree?)
http://www.exfamily.org/pubs/ml/b5/ml1483.shtml(reply to this comment
From Fish
Monday, May 22, 2006, 05:04

(Agree/Disagree?)
Meowww(reply to this comment
From cassy
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 09:55

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Thanks for saying that. I think your comment to Jonnie walker was thoughtful and caring. Most of us arent' against the family, that's what Zerby is telling everyone, in fact, we're against the top leaders who are covering for certain repeat molesters of who I will name a few: Paul (Josiah), Matthew, aka John PI, Silas (CRO of ASCRO) and some others if you look around this site that have been mentioned before. Zerby and Peter know exactly what they need to do to make it right. This issue was addressed in the last summit meeting and basically Matthew summed up the point clearly when the young people were asking that molestors who had sex with kids be booted out -- "Well, we couldn't that, because (and he pointed around to his fellow leaders) we all did it!!!!!!!

That's not something that's going to published, but believe me if you've been around the top leadership like I have, you'd be boiling.(reply to this comment

From weegirlie
Friday, May 12, 2006, 04:46

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I couldn't agree more with this comment!!(reply to this comment
From Gypsy
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 13:44

(Agree/Disagree?)

Just how exactly r u "around top leadership"? I dont mean to be rude, just more out of curiosity? R u still in TF? I mean to be around the "bosses" u have to have some "title" in TF? or r u one of those "wolves dressed in sheep clothing"? That would be awesome if u are! Anyway.. Good Luck!

BTW.. that comment made me sick! And to think there still out there, makes me even sicker! May they rot in HELL!!!(reply to this comment

From From Cassy
Friday, May 12, 2006, 06:23

(
Agree/Disagree?)
The term "you've been" is past tense. if you want to know my history, look up my articles namely "Character Assasination No More" for the low down.(reply to this comment
From weegirlie
Friday, May 12, 2006, 04:48

(Agree/Disagree?)
I think the key word was "been", as in past tense. At least that's how I understood it. :)(reply to this comment
from happy helper
Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 06:12

(Agree/Disagree?)

I've found a site for you devilcatcher : www.netlinkup.com/18only. Since you love debates absent of any sort of logic you should fit in just fine there.The two current debates there are about whether or not it rained before "the flood" and whether or not women should drive.Superstition and misoygny in one website............bless.
(reply to this comment)

From irritant
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 06:26

(Agree/Disagree?)
netlinkup's been shut down now for "bad behavior". Too many Family youngsters saying what they like without supervision. No wonder devilcatcher has to come here for entertainment.(reply to this comment
From
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 06:26

(
Agree/Disagree?)
netlinkup's been shut down now for "bad behavior". Too many Family youngsters saying what they like without supervision. No wonder devilcatcher has to come here for entertainment.(reply to this comment
from Gypsy
Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 14:59

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

What the fuck?!?

How seriously retarded of u to post that comment... and on top of it name it "think think think", how in the fuck is that making us "think"? If anything it just reminds me how thankful i am im not there anymore... so FUCK OFF!



(reply to this comment)

From devilcatcher
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 04:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
watch your language. i won't anser to anyone who talks like that.(reply to this comment
From Tom the gangster!
Saturday, August 02, 2003, 03:24

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
You'll answer, see, or I'll punch ya in the face ya filthy animal!(reply to this comment
From devilcatcher
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 06:58

(Agree/Disagree?)
feel free retard.(reply to this comment
From bugger
Saturday, August 02, 2003, 02:44

(
Agree/Disagree?)
goodie! That just gave me an idea for a new way to shut you up!(reply to this comment
From weegirlie
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 04:39

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

But you'll happily read "loving jesus" filth containing far viler language?(reply to this comment

from Fish
Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:06

(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh yeah, those "brass tacks". Really missed those. FUCK OFF
(reply to this comment)
from weegirlie
Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 01:57

(Agree/Disagree?)

Sorry, but I have better things to do with my time than read the rantings of paedophiles, child abusers and sexual deviants.

If you wish to have a serious debate, by all means, I'm quite happy to have one with YOU (not your abusive leaders). Or can you not argue/debate a point without relying on other people's opinions and programming?
(reply to this comment)

from flashbacks
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 21:00

(Agree/Disagree?)

The only time I remember hearing the word "think" in the Family outside of an admonition not to do so ("lean not to your own understanding," bashing the "carnal mind," etc.) was in the following edifying (LOL) ditty:

"If you think, think, think, then you'll sink, sink, sink, because you stink, stink, stink."

Maybe be a bit more in tune with the Spirit, eh?
(reply to this comment)

from JohnnieWalker
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 19:21

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Devilcatcher, here's a serious question for you:

Why do you insist on making this issue about religion?

Here's why I ask:

I could not, honestly, care less what you believe in.

You say people need to convert to Christianity in order to go to Heaven? Good for you.

You say you believe the Family is the best place for you? So be it.

You say you believe that Jesus wants his followers to have spiritual sex with him? Knock yourself out.

You say you believe Space City is in the moon? That's fantastic.

You say that some people who leave the Family are possessed by blood-soaked demons? That's your prerogative.

You say the Endtime is near and you will only be happy when every being on this planet is converted to your religion? Go get'm, Tiger.

Regardless of what you have been told, this is not a religious issue for me. It never has been. I am not (nor ever will I allow myself to be) intolerant of other people's preferred beliefs.

But here's where I draw the line:

You protect and hide the people who were responsible for the abuse experienced by my best friends, my loved ones and myself? I will do what I can to see you and the abusers in court.

You rub salt in the emotional wounds of people who I love dearly and have been hurt by the Family? I will be on your case until you have fully apologized and made amends.

You deny proper education to my younger brothers and sisters who are still in The Family? I will have the authorities at your door in no time.

I care about these issues, Devilcatcher. There is a gut-wrenching feeling in my stomach every time I think about this. It pains me to no end to think that I was once arrogant and cold-hearted towards ex-members who felt the same way I do now. It kills me to think that I once called them liars and prayed for God to punish them.

We're all adults, for crying out loud. Can't we be grown-ups about this? Can't you put aside your anger towards what you perceive to be "bitter, vitriolic apostates" for just long enough to discover that the heart that beats my chest is the same that beats in yours? Can't you transcend this polarized, "us vs. them" mentality and understand that there are hundreds of us out there who were hurt in a very real way? Can't you understand that this hurt will not go away until it is properly addressed and amends are made?

Think about it: What kind of a monster has one become when one would rather insult or ignore a wounded person than attended to their pleas for help?

Think. Think. Think.
(reply to this comment)

From devilcatcher
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 08:11

(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm very sorry JohnnieWalker. It wasn't wise of me to post this. I personally am not praying against the ex-members nor know anyone who is. But rather praying FOR you to be happy and fruitful or to come back because that is are beliefs. I know you aren't liars because the same thing happened to me. The difference is that I forgot about it. See, if you are against the entire family, you are against many innocent people like my self. We went through enough like that without having our brothers and sisters against us. In the name of all the innocent people of the family, do not attack the family. Attack the perverts that abused you if you want and if you canít forgive but for gods sake donít attack the group where a lot of people are happy, living peacefully, and minding their own businessÖ
I understand your point of view and Iím sorry for the hurt I caused you and any other. I just didnít see things as you see them.
You mentioned Ďípleas for helpíí
If there is any way possible that I can help you I would be glad to. (reply to this comment
From lisa
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 23:56

(Agree/Disagree?)

But rather praying FOR you to be happy and fruitful or to come back because that is are beliefs. I know you aren't liars because the same thing happened to me. The difference is that I forgot about it. You forgot about it??? !! So we know abuse went on but the fact that we don't just forget about it means that we're wrong, what if forgetting about it means that more children get abused? See, if you are against the entire family, you are against many innocent people like my self. We went through enough like that without having our brothers and sisters against us. So if your brother and sisters are speaking out against the abuse you suffered they are against you? In the name of all the innocent people of the family, do not attack the family. Attack the perverts that abused you What if the 'inoccent' people in the family and the perverts who abused us are the same people? if you want and if you canít forgive but for gods sake donít attack the group where a lot of people are happy, living peacefully, and minding their own business

Fine we'll leave the inoccent people in that family alone, just help us track down and prosocute the perverts, we'll give you list of all the people that we know the names of that abused us and then you help us find them and bring them to justice? Woulden't you like to know? If you have kids woulden't you like to know if the uncle/aunty whos taking care of them is the same one who forced a 5 yr old to give them a blow job or held their head down the toliet when they forgot to flush? (reply to this comment

From cheeks
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 09:45

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I think Lisa makes a very good point. Research has shown that pedeophiles find victims over and over and over again. The fact that we have grown up and matured does not mean the abusers have lost their victims. They are now after our generations children. Your children could be their next victim. You have to look at the bigger picture most of these people have not left they are now forced to do their dirty deeds in secret.

The leaders of the Family, the same leaders who have been in play for over twenty years were some of the main abusers. Look at MWM who were some of the main leaders there? Are they still leaders now? If so why? The same could be said of Musica con Vida, in both these situations sexual abuse ran rampent. More so in MWM and most of the leaders who were leaders then are leaders now. The Family cannot rid itself of abusers because there would be no Family left. These people allowed it and partook of it. What makes you think they have really changed? They have not even acknowledged their part in it. They are for all intents and perposes criminals. Who got their jollies off on having sex with children, and the ones who wern't having sex with us were beating us half to death.

(reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 02:00

(Agree/Disagree?)
i don't think anyone in the family is abused now days. at least my children are NOT.(reply to this comment
From cheeks
Monday, May 15, 2006, 11:44

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Well do you have children? How can you be so sure they are not? It is ignorant to think that no one in the Family is being abused right now. I am sure without doubt there is more than one. From the sister who has stood by her abusive husband to the child that is being spanked too often.

Another thing I want to point out to you is sexual abuse is not just having sex with a victim. It is the whole gambit and prelude to sex. Even in a victim never has intercorse the victim can still be sexually abused. I defy you to tell me that somewhere in some home there is not some child under the age of sixteen that is not being abused. I know there is because the people who abused us are still in. This is not something one grows out of, or puts on their NWO's it is a sickness a disease that is incurable. It is a fire that will never be put out. And as long as the abusers are still it there will still be abuse it is as simple as that.

The Family still refused to recognise the extent of the abuse both sexual, physical, and mental. No half baked, white washed appology is going to cut it. " We may have made mistakes." I may have forgot to put the cat out. It does not mean I didn't put it out, I may have, and I may have not. (reply to this comment

From nearmars
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 10:36

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Addtionally, research shows that kids that were abused are more likely to become abusers. So you not only have to protect your kids from the old family members who abused us, but your peers who were abused...and from what I can tell that was almost everyone I grew up with.(reply to this comment
From lisa
Friday, May 12, 2006, 00:00

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Sorry I tried to bold my comments it should read like this:

But rather praying FOR you to be happy and fruitful or to come back because that is are beliefs. I know you aren't liars because the same thing happened to me. The difference is that I forgot about it.

You forgot about it??? !! So we know abuse went on but the fact that we don't just forget about it means that we're wrong, what if forgetting about it means that more children get abused?

See, if you are against the entire family, you are against many innocent people like my self. We went through enough like that without having our brothers and sisters against us.

So if your brothers and sisters are speaking out against the abuse you suffered they are against you?

In the name of all the innocent people of the family, do not attack the family. Attack the perverts that abused you

What if the 'inoccent' people in the family and the perverts who abused us are the same people? i

f you want and if you canít forgive but for gods sake donít attack the group where a lot of people are happy, living peacefully, and minding their own business

Fine we'll leave the inoccent people in that family alone, just help us track down and prosocute the perverts, we'll give you list of all the people that we know the names of that abused us and then you help us find them and bring them to justice? Woulden't you like to know? If you have kids woulden't you like to know if the uncle/aunty whos taking care of them is the same one who forced a 5 yr old to give them a blow job or held their head down the toliet when they forgot to flush?

(reply to this comment

From lisa
Friday, May 12, 2006, 00:00

(Agree/Disagree?)

Sorry I tried to bold my comments it should read like this:

But rather praying FOR you to be happy and fruitful or to come back because that is are beliefs. I know you aren't liars because the same thing happened to me. The difference is that I forgot about it.

You forgot about it??? !! So we know abuse went on but the fact that we don't just forget about it means that we're wrong, what if forgetting about it means that more children get abused?

See, if you are against the entire family, you are against many innocent people like my self. We went through enough like that without having our brothers and sisters against us.

So if your brothers and sisters are speaking out against the abuse you suffered they are against you?

In the name of all the innocent people of the family, do not attack the family. Attack the perverts that abused you

What if the 'inoccent' people in the family and the perverts who abused us are the same people? i

f you want and if you canít forgive but for gods sake donít attack the group where a lot of people are happy, living peacefully, and minding their own business

Fine we'll leave the inoccent people in that family alone, just help us track down and prosocute the perverts, we'll give you list of all the people that we know the names of that abused us and then you help us find them and bring them to justice? Woulden't you like to know? If you have kids woulden't you like to know if the uncle/aunty whos taking care of them is the same one who forced a 5 yr old to give them a blow job or held their head down the toliet when they forgot to flush?

(reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Friday, May 12, 2006, 01:18

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
i can't find anything to say. this is so complicated. i don't know. of course i would like to put behind bars the people who abused me. but again we are suposed to forgive. and the family has changed and i don't think there is abuse anymore. but it's true, you can't forget these things. for me even if justice is brought so i figure, whats the use? but you can't attack them without attacking the family in it's whole. (reply to this comment
From JohnnieWalker
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 12:57

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

You can only forgive someone if they have admitted to their wrong-doing and have demonstrated contriteness.

Christians believe that even God doesn't forgive sins unless one has confessed them. (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9)

Forgiveness is a gift, not an obligation. It cannot be demanded by anyone--much less the person who is at fault.

Let's break this down into a scenario that's easy to understand:

John stabs Bill.

John says to Bill, "I'm sorry for poking you."

Bill says, "No, you're not sorry. I'm calling the police. Go get me some first aid before I fucking bleed to death."

John says, "I'm not going to help you because you used the 'F' word and you're just being bitter. I apologised so you need to forgive me."

Bill says, "I'm not forgiving you until you make a proper apology and SHOW me you're sorry by helping me."

Obviously, the solution would be for John to acknowledge his crime, help tend to the wound he inflicted, and then, if Bill decided to press charges, surrender to the authorities to be tried for his criminal act.

I guess it remains to be seen what Family leaders will do.(reply to this comment

From weegirlie
Friday, May 12, 2006, 05:02

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I'd just like to say thank you for comments like these. It's very unusual to come across someone still in TF who is reasonable enough to admit that abuse went on and wasn't properly punished. :)

I can understand your moral dilema in that you want to continue believing in TF for religious reasons, but please understand that those of us who do not feel the same way cannot understand how you can continue following leaders who were guilty of conducting and promoting serious abuse which adversely affected a large portion of a generation of children. Forgiveness is all good and well, but personally I think forgiveness is only deserved by those who are truely repentant and I've seen no indication that those responsible are indeed repentant. Openly admitting their personal guilt would be the first step, something which they have not done so far, but rather hidden behind the general "apology" that "some mistakes were made" and avoiding that those "mistakes" were made and promoted by them personally as leaders.(reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 07:09

(Agree/Disagree?)
I guess the reason I stay in the family is because of their beliefs and not their leadership.(reply to this comment
From Rain Child
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 12:23

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

You stay in The Family because of the beliefs. That is understandable, it's why many of us stayed. But how much do you really understand the beliefs? Have you ever studied Christianity and the Bible through any other source? Are you aware that most Christians would not even view The Family's doctrines as Biblical, because they're not? I'm not trying to begin a religious argument here, because that would be pointless, these things are, of course, impossible to prove. i just want to see you've ever allowed yourself to think laterally, and really ask yourself why other Christians hate The Family. It can't be because you're living Godly in Christ Jesus, because, after all, they're Christians too. They would be happy to know that you're out there spreading the good news.

For instance, here are some random thoughts coming to me just now as I reminisce on Family doctrine:

Don't you think that for someone who so loved "God's Creation" and hated cities with all their noise and big buildings, It's rather strange that Berg chose to fill his fantasy of heaven with a clutter of odd-looking buildings, creating a city? And doesn't it all seem rather like a fifth-grader's imagination? Except for all the naked people of course. And isn't it strange, that with all his paranoia about the occult, the illuminati, etc. he chose to shape his Heaven like a pyramid? What was going on there? And that the only book that wasn't a mo letter which could proudly be displayed in any home was Linda Goodman's Sunsigns, written by a person who is strongly anti- Christian? Just a few weird thoughts occuring to me at this late hour. What makes any of us so sure that Berg was actually Christian? Just because he chose the name 'Jesus' for his weird sex-God who only spoke through him? It was a cult of one person. Christianity was the cover, which could be manipulated at will.


Of course that's just opinion, but I really could go on and on, there are so many examples of things that don't make sense at all, many of which were conceived in moments of drunkeness, like Abrahim the Gypsy King, etc. and then the onus is on all sincere members to believe this stuff like fact.

I understand you're in it for the beliefs, but where do those beliefs come from? They're pulled out of all sorts of places, from the Fortune Teller who read Berg's palm, to his lesbian and incestuous fantasies, to the Family's need for money. They're very nicely packaged as new revelations which you have to spend hours reading every day. How do you know what the beliefs are going to be tomorrow? What if there's a new revelation saying you should all marry inter-generationally by the end of the month? Are you going to let them decide everything for you? It's your life, mate. And you're not really living it until you're making your own decisions. And your beliefs are not really your own beliefs, unless you know why you've come by them, yourself. Study, think, and keep an open mind. Good luck.(reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 02:10

(Agree/Disagree?)
i will. thanks.(reply to this comment
From
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 12:55

(
Agree/Disagree?)
There is also the issue with trust, how can you trust a group that takes away your family,that turns them against you? That told you so many lies and distorted interpretations. (reply to this comment
From devilcatcher
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 02:12

(Agree/Disagree?)
what lies?(reply to this comment
From JohnnieWalker
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 12:33

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Lie: "Ricky (Davidito) was never sexually abused."

Fact: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Image:My_flirty_fish_pg_3.jpg
****

Lie: "Ricky left the family on favourable terms and was convinced by bitter ex-members to do what he did."

Fact: In December, 2000 (the year he left the Family--2 1/2 years before he registered on Moving On), Rick wrote: "Some days I have come so close to snapping and going back to their [Maria & Peter's] compund--but not for a socal visit and not as a repentant prodigal, but as an avenger." (http://www.rickyrodriguez.org/documents/Ricky_to_James_22_December_00.pdf)
****

Lie: "If you Family teens willfully go out into the System, youíre not going to be shown as much mercy by the Lord as we were when we were out in the System! [...] If you leave the Family & willfully go out there, youíre not going to be so protected. Youíre going to get it & youíre going to really be severely chastened & punished by the Lord because you know the Truth & would be rejecting it!" (http://www.xfamily.org/images/9/9f/GN393_Traumatic_Testimonies_For_Teens.pdf)

Fact: All the ex-Family teens I know are successful and have never been "severely chastened & punished by the Lord".
****

Lie: Abuses occured in The Family, but it was only a few isolated incedents.

Fact: Hundreds of ex-SG's who lived in Homes around the world have come forward with their personal stories of abuse. (http://www.movingon.org/abuse.asp)
****

Lie: "When we heard about these abuses in 1986, we put an immediate stop to them."

Fact: Four years prior to 1986, Answers To Your Questions! No. 2 (published in September, 1982) contained the following paragraph: "6. QUESTION: ALSO, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ADULT BRETHREN LUSTING SEXUALLY AFTER CHILDREN UNDER 10 YEARS OLD!--Francis & Summer Sonrise; USA (Note: We have recieved several letters from concerned parents re: "unapproved" sex with young children--without counsel or knowledge of parents, usually done by single brothers. Any comment? TY! Love, Sara D) ANSWER: I think we've said enough about this in the Letters. But it's sad if the poor single brothers have to resort to this because of obvious sexual deprivation by older sisters!" (http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Answers_To_Your_Questions%21_No._2)
****

Need any more proof that they lied? There's lots more where that came from.(reply to this comment

From Big Sister
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 14:51

(Agree/Disagree?)
JW makes an interesting point in Lie #2, where Ricky was (to paraphrase) ...brainwashed by ex-members into a state of rage. I don't think that's what happened. I think he left TF confused. Perhaps he pretended to be on good terms because - why not? If it was me, I'd smile my way right outta there. But he was already suspecting that his childhood was a horrible mess (interspersed with the royal treatment he also got) and that he was not a near god. When he got out he had the freedom to research, ask questions of any one he chose, read any book, think any thought. He came to his own conclusions.

Anyone in TF who comes here to MovingOn asking questions is going to discover the process of thinking new thoughts. If you stay around you'll be learning how to find the truth-as YOU see it- by thinking, asking lots of questions and evaluating the answers.

So, DC, you can see that people respond to your questions with facts to try to prove their points to you. And you've asked some really good questions. They are not telling you what to think, they are telling you what THEY think and why. I hope you feel safe enough to grasp that you are not being forced to change your beliefs. If you choose to see things in a new way, that's entirely up to you.(reply to this comment
From
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 07:42

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
What sets TF apart from other organisations is the LAW OF LOVE and ONE WIFE and the predictions of an actual end of the world happening in our childhoods-I wasn't supoosed to reach 18 according to them. These, to me are the biggest causes for our abuse.

And this free sex thing was not Bergs brainchild, you'd be surprised how old it actually is. And JW's have predicted the end of the world for almost every one of it's generations. if you read up on cults and religion you'll see how very un-unique TF really is.

Do you mean you like the life style, communal living etc because you don't need to have TF to be a christian or whatever it is you believe.

What 'beliefs' do you stay there for? (reply to this comment
From
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 14:49

(
Agree/Disagree?)

In other organisations children thought that the end of the world would happen in their childhoods. I lay in bed as a kid petrified that it might be that night or perhaps the night after! (reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 02:19

(Agree/Disagree?)
i do like the life style. i do like communal living. i stay in for the overall beliefs of the family. being i professional diciple. prophesy, praise, prayer..etc. but if i was to leave i don't know what i would do.(reply to this comment
From JohnnieWalker
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 21:58

(Agree/Disagree?)

I think I might understand why people (particularly SGAs) remain in The Family--feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, devilcatcher.

When I was still in, I felt that I was part of God's chosen elite, and therefore in His highest will. I knew that there were other groups with beliefs similar to the Family's, but it made me feel good to think that The Family was better than those groups, and that I was part of the best-of-the-best.

Of course, I wasn't basing this on any in-depth knowledge of what other groups were like. I just believed it because that's what I'd been taught all my life.

I don't know that I ever stopped to think about why I wanted to stay in The Family. I don't even know that I completely knew my reasons for leaving when I did. But now, 4 years later, I can think a lot more clearly and can put things into perspective better. I can describe the thoughts and emotions better than I could when I was caught up in the middle of it all.(reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 02:27

(Agree/Disagree?)
it's true i do think that me are part of God's chosen elite, and therefore in His highest will. it's true i know very little of the other groupes besides what the MLs cover. however i did and do think of why i'm here and why i want to stay and i came to the conclusion that the family was the best place for me.(reply to this comment
From JohnnieWalker
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 17:05

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Good for you for thinking it through.

I hope you realize that now that you've made your choice, you are in a position of power to affect the future of The Family.

The FGA leaders will be kicking the bucket in a couple of decades while you and your peers in The Family will be taking over its leadership. The future of those that the first generation has hurt is in your hands.

You can chose to do something about it now, before the quagmire that is WS is handed over to you, or you can do it later, by which time the voices and numbers of those who seek justice will only have gotten stronger.(reply to this comment

From
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 11:15

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

I agree with JW's comments below, but I see that you take our pleas for justice as "attacking the family" and "having our brothers and sisters against us".

If you must comply with Zerby and call it that, at least consider this: without those "attacks," those of you young people in the Family might still be enduring the child sex abuse of the 80's and the DTR hell of the 90's rather than doing whatever it is you call being happy, living peacefully and minding your own business.(reply to this comment

From JohnnieWalker
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 10:24

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I appreciate the fact that you're praying for me to rejoin the Family. I know you feel it is the best place for me to be. I used to feel the same way. Maybe some day you'll see things differently. But please understand that there is no way I will ever come back.

Think of it this way: Supposedly fish will grow relative to the size of the tank they're in. While in The Family I was the fish in the small aquarium. When I left, I was the small fish being let free in the ocean.

Now that I've learned to adapt am growing to my full potential, there's no way I'll fit back into a tank I've outgrown.

You said, "See, if you are against the entire family, you are against many innocent people like my self."

Here's what I'm against: I am against a lack of accountability. I am against the crimes that where committed for which there has been no justice. I am against shifting blame and re-victimization. I am against polarized mentalities.

If all members of The Family are for any of these then, yes, I am against the entire Family. But I seriously doubt that is the case.

My issues are not with Family members like you. My issues are with your leaders. But until they cease hiding behind Family members and depending on others to defend them; until they come forward and deal with us face to face and answer these issues for themselves as accountable leaders should, I am left battling with people like you who blindly defend their leaders and have no clue about the real issues at hand.

Your leaders are responsible for my abuse. Your leaders said, did and published things that were criminal, and ultimately led to the abuse of myself and many others like me. So far, they have not made amends with those of us they have hurt. So far, they have refused to help bring healing to the wounds they created.

So far they have considered their religion and way of life to be more important than the cries of their own children.

You say you want to help me? Help me confront your leaders about their past crimes. Help me help them realize the extent of the pain they've caused. Help me hold them accountable for what they've done. Help me to convince them to make amends.

Once we've succeeded, you can go merrily on your way being a full-time Family member and I will go merrily on my way knowing that I, at last, have closure.(reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 23:17

(Agree/Disagree?)
i get what you mean. if i had full proof of what they did. if i knew where they were. if i would know who they are, i would for sure help you. i just cannot stand the thought that there is still people in the family like that, and what's more, they are our leaders. or at least some of them. if you are to attack them and not the family, in that case i'm totaly with you.(reply to this comment
From lisa
Saturday, May 13, 2006, 19:21

(Agree/Disagree?)

Ok so we'll give you a list of all the abusers we can name and you do your best to expose them deal? (reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 02:32

(Agree/Disagree?)
i can try my best but the leaders are all in WS and remain sailah. what clearly do you wnat me to do? find where they are? Please clarify(reply to this comment
From JohnnieWalker
Sunday, May 14, 2006, 16:46

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Here's what we've asked WS (see http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=4&Cat=24&ID=2488) :

"Will the administrative arm of The Family International, World Services, work with us and law enforcement agencies to investigate the full extent of the abuse of children born and raised in The Family? Will World Services cooperate with law enforcement officials to identify abusers so that they can be held accountable for their actions?"

So far we haven't gotten a reply.

My suggestion would be for you to write Maria and ask her why no reply has been forthcoming. Ask her why they refuse to help the children who were born into and raised in a group they helped establish. Ask them why they now ignore the people who spent up to 30 years of their lives obediently following their instructions. Ask them why they will not acknowledge a petition from the people who, through their monthly tithes, paid for their food, clothing and shelter.

If / when you get a reply, I'd be very interested to read it.(reply to this comment

From Randi
Monday, May 15, 2006, 02:20

(Agree/Disagree?)


You have to remember that Karen is not mentally well. The fact that she thinks she is a queen and a wine taster is a clear sign of someone who is delusional. Perhaps if she got some therapy and pills she would be able to see our point of view...often people like that are not able to feel guilt or remorse, which is clearly another sign that she is not well. I recently had the discomfort of meeting a mentally ill patient who was certain that he was John the Babtist....( aka, Karen thinks she is an end time prophet) I tried to convince him otherwise, but the more I tried the more he was certain that he was in fact John the Babtist...

In other words, I think only a perfessional would be able to help(reply to this comment

From devilcatcher
Monday, May 15, 2006, 01:36

(Agree/Disagree?)
i will.(reply to this comment
From some thoughts
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 09:19

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
The perverts are the top leaders who rule the family, but no one can tell the mighty 'king and queen' anything. Losing her son has done nothing to make Zerby change her pathetic mind.

I feel sorry for the kids born into it that is why the Family has come under constant scrutiny because the Family won't address these glaring issues.

When the family deal with ex'es and 'systemites' they are two-faced and quite seriously offensive.

And we all grew up there, who better to know them inside and out.

Maybe your average member needs to grow a back bone and demand Zerby and Peter address these issues-seeing as we are their children! And stop being so 'minding there own bussiness' about it- which is condusive to ingoring/burying your head in the sand type of stance.

Maybe they wouldn't be so 'happy' and 'living peacefully' (can they really , or do they deserve to be, with such a collective guilty concience?) if they read up a bit on what they are being accused of and the fallout from they're selfish lifestyle which puts (not the lord) not they're children first but have by Bergs order been replaced with Bowing to leadership and serving the group. (reply to this comment
from Manon of the Spring
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 17:56

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

So...what's there to talk about? This ML was written at a point in TF's history when Berg, Zerby & Co. were preparing to jettison the old COG order and embark on the "Family of Love" era, notorious for widespread FFing, come-unions, rape, and child molestation. I can't imagine you want to debate the documented facts of TFI history, or why the growth in membership from 1978 to 1988 has a direct relationship to FFing.

Maybe you want to talk about why TFI membership is declining year after year and wondering if you really have much of a future with Zerby & Company? If TFI is the work of God, why aren't enough children born or new disciples recruited to replace all those who've left? Have you looked at the stats on the number of FGA who left between 2005 and 2006? 16% of the existing FGA membership took a hike last year. I don't suppose Rick's murder/suicide had anything to do with that particular mass exodus, do you?
(reply to this comment)

From devilcatcher
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 08:13

(Agree/Disagree?)
thats not on the family statistics.(reply to this comment
From Manon
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 09:32

(
Agree/Disagree?)
The data are buried in the published stats for 2005, but the information is not presented in a way that the FGA exodus can be easily discerned. You have to take the raw numbers and recalcuate membership categories, which can be done fairly easily if you've taken more than basic math. The fact that you don't have enough education to question the assumptions and conclusions presented in official Family statistics is problematic.(reply to this comment
From devilcatcher
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 23:19

(Agree/Disagree?)
where do you get these ''real stats''.(reply to this comment
from Rain Child
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 17:27

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

4. DO YOU THINK THE FAMILY DID YOU ANY GOOD? (Peter: Oh yes!) How? (Peter: Well, when I got saved I wouldn't have known what to do if it hadn't been for the Family.

That explains it right there. People in a total institution don't think for themselves. Peter was saying, the best thing the Family did for him, was that he didn't know what to do if he didn't have The Family there to tell him what to think. Not healthy!
(reply to this comment)

From
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 11:17

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, pervy Peter, the Family also gave you a career -- or a "kingship" -- and all the underage flesh you could desire. Damn you.(reply to this comment
from AMC28
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 16:51

(Agree/Disagree?)

Yeah, ummmmmmm.........I stopped reading right after "Why did you join the Family..." I didn't. I had the misfortune of being born to a mother who was weak and was incapable of making a decision for herself. So, if you would seriously like me to think, come up with something more pertinent.
(reply to this comment)

from enigma
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 16:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Do you think your stupid "devotions time" is going to make us go running back to the ďlovingĒ arms of the Family? Every time I read TFís drivel it makes me want to puke.
(reply to this comment)
From AMC28
Tuesday, May 09, 2006, 16:52

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah, I think I just threw up a little....(reply to this comment
from MegaGroan
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 15:41

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

We didn't join The Family, but to our credit, we left.

By the way, nothing in that letter addresses the REAL reason for the Family to exist: To provide a captive audience for Berg's enormous ego.

Berg wasn't a prophet, he wasn't inspired by God, and the Family today is just the rotten, decaying fruit of a rotten tree.

"...for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." (Matthew 23:15)
(reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 15:34

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
After the very first line of that 'GN' (or maybe we should call it BSN-Bullshit News), I couldn't continue as I realize it didn't apply to me:


1. WHY DID YOU GUYS JOIN THE FAMILY ANYWAY?

I don't believe we made the choice to 'join' the Family.
(reply to this comment)
from solemn
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 14:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Sorry, it does nothing but confirm that leaving was the best decision I have ever made. So, thank you.
(reply to this comment)
from venus_fly_trap
Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 13:27

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Your blindness grows mother
Out of the center darkness comes
Looking everywhere but there
The void
Pretending faith
Pretending trust
And blaming all under you
Of your very crime
You as Heidi
Sweep, sweep
Sweep them all away
All that would bother
The grandfather
Our snowman
Keep him sleeping
So he doesnít have to listen anymore
So sweep us all under the carpet
Sweep his others under and away
So he doesnít have to hear us anymore
He wants to sleep to not be bothered
And no more gypsy king
Abrahim
Speak no more
He left as the snowman fell to sleep
He no more fun
No more women for Abrahim
The snowman has to give the King
And your brother Peter too
Who watches for outsiders
And now alone without him
What can you do?
Retrieve those lost
Theyíll never listen
Some youíve killed
Some are blind, deaf and dumb
They are your brothers and sisters
Your children
The picture is not pretty anymore
This fable continues as horror
In the still you can feel the vibrations that are
And this we feel
The stir of deep soul
Bringing back pain from the past
Your blindness stays the confusion
You incestuously conceived
As you hurt those left to your care
Oh wicked mother
Whore
Children born and gone
Instead of caring
Youíve closed your eyes
To unstir that deep
Personified by your lack of vision
Hail Mary
Queen of the flock
Guardian of all the snowman left
That is you
Glorious and beautiful
You at the center if you wish to be her
To be her
Who is she?
Shhhhhhh
You who stays in the cave with him
You oh mistress
Who wishes to be
Heidi
Who wishes to be
Maria
Who wishes to be the first
But is only the second prophet
Realise now you whose name means pure
That your light goes out and you return to nothing
Just as he
If you do not accept all that is your truth and past
Into one
This is the same place that your blindness is
These lay at the center with your dead children
Where is that smell coming from?
Follow it
Follow it
Under the carpet
Under her church
What is it?
Check under the carpet
Look now you pious nuns
Heidiís and Godís witches
And you will see a generation of death
Some just skeletons
Some have meat still left on the bone
And this is the stench
Children of the nuns
The holy sacrificial women of God
Godís whores
Therefore the dead are the children of god
For their mothers are such
And their graves without respect
Their memory as if they never happened
Just a prayer now and then
And their lights were put out
In the so called temple of the most high God
The most precious gift was blown away
Deserted
You are no better than the regular whore
You who would pretend
The only way to remain is by your children
But you have killed them one by one
Just as you accused America the Whore of doing
Hypocrite
Feel the blood
And smell the iron like scent
Of the wound youíve let
Feel the strength youíve called weakness
In the children that search alone

(reply to this comment)

From I agree with Venus
Wednesday, May 10, 2006, 09:19

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Venus, You have put alot of my own sentiment towards my mother in your writings. I don't believe my mother is a whore though, but I do believe that she stobbornly refuses to acknowledge any wrong doing done by the cult. I am thoroughly convinced my Dad was brainwashed at the age of 18 when he joined the cult, and I believe that he just hasn't had the guts to get out and take his children out of the cult sooner, my Mom clings to him and his religion in good faith that "God Put us together". I tried to convince her to leave on her own but she would not have it, She didn't even consider her ailing age or the fact that she has simply given too much of herself to the children of the cult and needs time to rest.

It's very very sad, that she has let herself become maligned and controlled for so many years. (reply to this comment

From venus_fly_trap
Thursday, May 11, 2006, 09:21

(Agree/Disagree?)

i consider my mother to have acted as a whore while she was fffing. she worked through an escort agency in the states, and spent many nights at night clubs in hotels doing it. i was referring more though to zerby "queen of fffers" as she was the example our mothers followed. i can remember watching my mother get ready to "work" she had a fake name, and i can remember imagining what she was doing. she had sex with a catholic priest once. i heard about it through a tape recording she made to her shepherds sharing the testimony. i think i have a brother from that night...(reply to this comment

From Fish
Friday, May 12, 2006, 04:59

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Cool(reply to this comment

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