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from Haunted Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 10:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I've received a few, some are pretty personal, but I just loved this one, it was so original and so concise at the same time.... "Joni, F*****ing get a life!! GET OVER IT! Move on girl! R." You know, I'd just never thought of that..... (reply to this comment)

from Albatross Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 08:56 (Agree/Disagree?) More "fan mail" Daniel, I find it hard to believe your claims that you had been abused as a child. You never mentioned this in your letter to Karen Zerby ( The Professionals ) and your parents & your sister deny that you were abused. In your email that was published in the letter " The Professionals", you make claims of seeing other children being abused. However you never once mention that you were abused. I would imagine that if you really were abused you would have mentioned it in that letter. It would have been better if you had. Now I wonder why you left that out in your letter? Did the abuse really occur? I'm not denying that some abuse occurred, the Family doesn't deny that either. I have seen some harsh discipline in years past but that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore. Another thing is you claim that you saw an adult trying to get a child to perform oral sex. Why didn't you include the person's name in the letter? Did you actually see this yourself or did you just hear about it and make it sound like you witnessed this firsthand? If you really care about stopping abuse, why don't you go to Thailand, which is rife with child prostitution. Or why don't you campaign against child slavery in third world countries such as Bangladesh? Abuse is occurring all over the globe, why don't you put your time & effort into something that will prove to be more worth your time? In the few cases where any abuse occurred, which was decades ago I must add. The abuse was not constant, however there are children who are abused just about every single day of the week. Take the child soldiers in Africa, the children are abducted from their parents, forced to carry weapons & go into combat. Not to mention the sexual abuse that they go through ( at least the girls ), they are most often raped by the older soldiers. These children are being turned into killers, they witness traumatizing acts of violence. What about the young girls who are forced into prostitution in Thailand? Most of the girls are under the age of 14. Pedophiles from around the globe go to Thailand to have sexual intercourse with these young girls because in their homeland they would go to prison if they were ever caught having sex with underage girls. What about the Romanian sex trade? I don't know if it's still going on but a few years ago, Homosexual men would come to Romania to have sex with young teenage boys. If you were to think logically, if you really wanted to stop abuse and you wanted to really make an impact, which cause would you choose? 1. Third World countries with a high rate of child abuse. 2. Abuse occurring in developed nations. For example The US, UK, Japan. 3.The Family. A few isolated cases of abuse which occurred years ago. I would go with choice number one and two. You see Daniel, there is no such thing as a perfect world. The world will never be without crime & suffering. You could never have a perfect society. Not unless you brainwash & impose mind control on every single human being on the planet. Statistically speaking The Family is a much better environment compared to most countries including the United States. You should quit wasting your time & also the Family's time with this nonsense. Go where you can really make a difference. You're not making a difference right now, you're just trying to justify your decision to leave the Family. You're not really interested in stopping abuse are you now? It's revenge isn't it, revenge that your life is going nowhere. Revenge for the fact that you couldn't make it in the Family. You want revenge because you're miserable & you want someone to blame it on. Well if you want to blame someone go take a good hard look in the mirror. You only have yourself to blame, you're old enough now that you can't point the finger at anyone else for your problems. I would advise you to do something useful with your life Daniel. Go make lots of money & become influential. If you want to join a righteous cause go join the Peace Corp, or UNICEF. Or become a politician if you want power & money. There's no one stopping you from doing these things but yourself. You're the only one that's putting limitations on yourself. It's not the fact that you haven't gotten an adequate education, that you don't have lots of money, or the fact that you had things happen to you which were unpleasant. You'll go nowhere fast if all you care about is getting even. I hope that you'll be able to find true happiness & fulfillment in doing something that’s worth living for. Signed, Jeremy Briefing from Claire Borowik for The Family International An International Christian Fellowship Daniel Roselle The allegations forwarded by Daniel Roselle are unsubstantiated. According to his parents, he never alleged having suffered any abuse during his time in the Family. We have a policy in place of investigating claims of abuse from our members and former members—Daniel never lodged a complaint or requested an investigation. In fact, before getting involved in an anti-Family campaign, he had never alleged that he had been abused. Only recently has this allegation surfaced and the details were not given to his parents until this week. He, in fact, declared that he had “had a good life” in the Family prior to engaging in this campaign. Contrary to his claims made publicly, he showed himself unwilling to enter into dialogue with Family members to reconcile issues. A friend of his e-mailed Family leadership in an attempt to coordinate such a dialogue, but ultimately Daniel Roselle decided not to do so in favor of initiating legal proceedings, and his colleague wrote us of this determination. As far as other anonymous claims forwarded by Daniel Roselle, we are not in a position to respond to alleged circumstances by unnamed individuals. Should these individuals believe that another individual harmed them in a legally reprehensible fashion, they are able to seek the same redress that ordinary citizens have available to them via the courts. Ricky Rodriguez, for example, knew exactly where some current members lived whom he had grown up with and even conversed with them on the phone several times. His stated goal, however, was not to substantiate claims, but rather to cause wide-scale damage to the group and its members of all ages. (reply to this comment)

From Blondie Sunday, February 20, 2005, 12:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Sorry, but this is hilarious: "In the few cases where any abuse occurred, which was decades ago I must add." Just because it's coming to light now doesn't mean it's effects should be undermined. And then to go on & say "It's revenge isn't it, revenge that your life is going nowhere. Revenge for the fact that you couldn't make it in the Family." LOL. What exactly does that mean..."make it in the family?" Going to W.S.? Great! That's where all the abuse started! I guess they feel they have "go on the attack" & speak their mind but all it does is fuel our fire! :) Bring it on!(reply to this comment)

From Kelly Saturday, January 29, 2005, 10:41 (Agree/Disagree?) I wonder why you find it Daniel’s accounts of abuse so hard to believe or even consider—could it be that such accounts may for you unlock repressed recollections of similar circumstances; could it be something that is to painful to acknowledge? If you do not believe the accounts are true, why do you find the need for a rebuttal? Why does it matter so much to you? Could it be that you are compelled to defend the Family in order to justify your self, your own life and the decisions you have made. Could it be that by considering claims of abuse you are also considering that your life till now has been a lie, an illusion—and worse, in the name of God? You are quick to give Daniel a solution—help the people in Thailand, join the Peace Corp—is it hard for you to imagine that Daniel may be drawn to helping others in the family –others with similar experiences? – If you were going to help someone, wouldn’t you help those closest to you, those who you can relate to, those who’s lives affect you personally—or would you find more consonance in helping others of whom you know or care less about? According to you, Daniel has not previously spoken of personal abuse, nor wrote about it therefore, you find the accounts less weighty—is it easy for you to speak of your worst memories, is it something you do often and in great detail? Your writing reveals your own secret demons-- the ones you have yet to acknowledge. --Kelly!(reply to this comment)

From FGA with sis still in group Saturday, January 29, 2005, 09:25 (Agree/Disagree?) I know it must hurt to read these things: "I find it hard to believe your claims that you had been abused as a child", and "your parents & your sister deny that you were abused", but don't let it get to you, Daniel, especially in your tired and weary state. You ARE telling the truth and there are MANY who DO believe you, so, just be encouraged that one day, you, too, may hear your parents (and who knows, maybe TF) say that they are sorry for what happened to you. Keep up the good fight! You are doing good! (reply to this comment)

From Albatross Saturday, January 29, 2005, 10:24 (Agree/Disagree?) To be quite frank...it does not hurt me. The words of people defending pedophiles have no currency with me. I am a bit tired...but not weary. Just trying to rest a little physically to keep my health up. Thanks for the kind words. Daniel(reply to this comment)

From FGA with sis still in group Saturday, January 29, 2005, 10:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Good! Glad to hear that! You are an intelligent, sensitive young man and one I would be proud to have as a son-in-law! Take care of yourself! You deserve it! (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Saturday, January 29, 2005, 09:22 (Agree/Disagree?) "If you really care about stopping abuse, why don't you go to Thailand, which is rife with child prostitution. Or why don't you campaign against child slavery in third world countries such as Bangladesh? Abuse is occurring all over the globe, why don't you put your time & effort into something that will prove to be more worth your time? In the few cases where any abuse occurred, which was decades ago I must add. The abuse was not constant, however there are children who are abused just about every single day of the week." OMFG! I am seriously starting to get bloody well tired of this kind of IL-logic! Jesus Christ, it's almost enough to make me wish there was a God who could strike these unfeeling, uncaring followers of His! Since when does a quest for justice only mean something if it's on a grand scale??? Is the suffering of even one child - one innocent, trusting, defenseless child, and in the name of a LOVING GOD at that, meaningless to you? Where is your heart? You should be ashamed of yourself. And, how the fuck do you know that abuse was not constant??? Were you present in every single home in every single bedroom? Your dissmissal of the suffering of so many children is utterly repugnant and I find it deeply offensive. and I'm not even one of the ones who suffered in this way. I can't even do my anger justice. I'm going to end here.(reply to this comment)

From Albatross Saturday, January 29, 2005, 10:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Actually this guy knows not of what he speaks. I HAVE been working and speaking out against sexual slavery and child labor in S.E.A. I am also planning to use my future law degree to try to make changes in international law so that Pedophiles like TF leadership will be unable to repeat what they did to us. :)(reply to this comment)

From openmind Sunday, February 20, 2005, 07:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Albatross, I wish you all the best in your endeavors.(reply to this comment)

From FGA with sis still in group Saturday, January 29, 2005, 11:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Good for you!! You get another star in my book!! Way to go, Daniel...(reply to this comment)

From Haunted Saturday, January 29, 2005, 10:27 (Agree/Disagree?) I love the fact that you're supposedly upset that you haven't got an adequate education. Well, good luck next sumester!(reply to this comment)

From FGA with sis still in group Saturday, January 29, 2005, 09:30 (Agree/Disagree?) No, they can't see, because they choose not to...it's a choice, and some prefer to remain in denial...but what you all need to do is hold onto your truth and believe that one day you WILL be justified...I believe that, because I believe that there IS a God and HE is just, unlike TF who called themselves the "Children of God"! (reply to this comment)

from JohnnieWalker Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 07:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I wonder how they can vehemently object to being accused of brainwashing and mental conditioning on one hand, while accusing these "bitter apostates" (whoever they are) of the same thing. I thought they claim brainwashing doesn't work? Why is it that they're saying we're capable of it? (reply to this comment)

from Cultinvator Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 03:12 (Agree/Disagree?) Yea, they need to be crucified! pull out the crosses...lol (reply to this comment)

from conan Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 14:12 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey Albatross....I don't think you should be held accountable for all the horrific things you've posted here in the last few months, years. You have obviously been possesed by the spirit of the Vandari and as such are not accountable. Just blame satan and other "detractors" around you man. Then you too can go murder with the knowledge that you'll be forgiven after you take your own life...even though suicide has always been viewed as inherently evil by TF. These brain washed idiots are too funny man....keep the rantings coming!! (reply to this comment)

from Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 12:16 (Agree/Disagree?) I thought Jesus had forgiven Ricky for what he did??? At lest that is what Zerby says... This guy is too much. But funny! (reply to this comment)

from venusbutterfly Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:53 (Agree/Disagree?) i just CANNOT believe these people...... bring the law suits on!! we are NOT afraid anymore and we are NOT children that someone can easily manipulate either. a lot of us have our own children and i think i speak for all of us who are parents when i say we would do ANYTHING to protect our children from all and any of the horrible things that happened to us whilst in TF! so you just bring those law suits on! there are several of us who are more than aware of the laws and i am sure they would brilliantly bring you down and expose those of you who were/are offenders for who you really are. (reply to this comment)

from exister Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey Albatross, I stand with you man. I expect some laughable hate mail once my interview with Details is published. I gave that reporter all of the goods and gladly put my name behind my words. Remember, fear only empowers the aggressor. It is never wrong to speak the truth. (reply to this comment)

from Nancy Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:31 (Agree/Disagree?) BTW, the only insult in this stupid email is that he calls you "brother." I'd answer that like Forrest Gump, "We are not relations." (reply to this comment)

From EyesWideShut Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 18:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh, I love that! Yeah, I agree. He can say whatever the hell he wants but to hell with the "brother".(reply to this comment)

from Nancy Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:30 (Agree/Disagree?) Ricky, "did" murder? Don't you mean he committed murder? (reply to this comment)

from NVC Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:13 (Agree/Disagree?) make sure you post all the supportive mail as well!!! (reply to this comment)

from Jules Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Here's another fun one that was sent to Tim and I. Apparently providing an open forum is the same as sexually abusing children. Anyone else a little suspect of this gentleman's claim of having attended law school? Um, was that real law school or "Law of Love" school? Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:36:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Grey Subject: Your web site To: admin@movingon.org To WHom it may concern, Why are you trying to abuse a worldwide missionary group by manipulating young people who have been in the group but left becasue of negative feelings towards their upbringing and also parents? You guys are the lowest of the low. You are guilty of the very things you attack this group of! Do you not realize that in a court of law you would be absolutely mowed down if The Family organization decided to take you to court? How much do you know about the law? You are in a very vulnerable situation becasue of all the profanity, accussations, allegations, and slander on your web site. The people who would end up shelling out the cash would be you, and probably doing some time too. YOU are the ones that are corrupting the young people you claim to be helping to Move On with their lives. YOu have them so worked up into a craze that they are willing to kill for you, and all you think you can say is that you are not the guilty party. All you want is for these innocent kids to do the dirty work for you, so you can be off the hook. Well, you will not be off the hook, I can tell you that from my experience with law school. You want to hide behind these kids like cowards. That shows a very weak character, and vile intentions. THis is the worse abuse of all. I know you would never post my letter on your web site because it would only hurt your puny cause. You think that these young people are going to save your neck or get even for you and your vengance crazed perversions. GET A LIFE! Michael Grey (reply to this comment)

From Perry Sunday, February 20, 2005, 20:36 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree, Jules. This is nothing but braggadocio. As you know, I have a law degree and practiced for awhile. If this guy really knew the law he wouldn't refer to his "experience with law school," but rather he would refer to the law itself, which he obviously doesn't know. My guess is that he probably flunked out, if he even attended at all. (reply to this comment)

From openmind Sunday, February 20, 2005, 08:01 (Agree/Disagree?) "I know you would never post my letter on your web site because it would only hurt your puny cause." Now that was funny! myconclusion.com doesn't post any of our letters on their site because it would only hurt their puny cause.(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Thursday, January 27, 2005, 05:25 (Agree/Disagree?) LOL!! What a lovely way to start the day! It almost makes this "kid" wish she had went into law instead of biology! What I wouldn't give to be able to personally meet these perverts in the courtroom. Michael, your claims of an education are laughable to those of us who actually have one! Very amusing!!(reply to this comment)

From Cultinvator Thursday, January 27, 2005, 03:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Sounds like either a churchy outlayer who has no clue as to what the rest of the world looks like out of fundamental crack in the ass america, or a family person posing as a 'law expert'. (reply to this comment)

From weegirlie Thursday, January 27, 2005, 02:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Perhaps this guy doesn't realise that a court of law has already found that many family children have been abused and the family's leadership had to denounced "Moses David" as an abusive leader and admit that his teachings encouraged abuse (Ref: the UK court case). The reason why no one was officially charged was because the court case was only about a single child and therefore the judge had no further jurisdiction. I'm not even going to credit this Mr. Grey with an explanation of why his "knowledge of the law" is quite frankly ludicrious, but I study law and he's talking a load of nonsense.(reply to this comment)

From Fwenzip Tuesday, March 29, 2005, 01:35 (Agree/Disagree?) I think most COG are not aware that their group denounced David Berg. The group still publishes propaganda under his name, (claiming he speaks from the dead.) so internally, they think they have won the case, by retaining costody of the child.(reply to this comment)

From ?? Thursday, January 27, 2005, 02:47 (Agree/Disagree?) wasn't there a guy who got 19 years of prison (in France i think)? can't remember where i read that exactly and still kicking myself for not having kept the link....(reply to this comment)

From jpmagero Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 21:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Are you sure its safe to post this powerful message on this site with your puny backroom agenda that is intended to bring down the mighty end time army? It might sway all of us who have been duped for so long with your subversions and mind bending abilities, causing doubts. god help you.(reply to this comment)

From EyesWideShut Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 19:01 (Agree/Disagree?) Wow! He's full of shit. Check out the grammar and spelling. If he went to law school I've got monkeys coming out of my butt. Why does the Family think that it's this site or any particular disgruntled individuals that have "turned" us all? Just shows they believe the whole world runs on group think. They can't fathom that we're having thoughts and feelings of OUR OWN, no, somebody's got to be telling us what to think and how to feel. Sad, so sad, that people like this Michael Grey (aka?) are entrusted with the education of our little brothers and sisters. There may not be any sexual abuse going on right now in the cult, but the potential and innate intelligence and curiosity of the youth is being taken advantage and corrupted as we speak, the longer the Family exists, the harder people will have to struggle when they are finally free. There are ass holes everywhere. Don't take it personally.(reply to this comment)

From James Penn Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 14:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah, I got one of these too. In the words of Eeyore the Wise: "Paaaaathetic!" BTW, the Family is NOT an organisation. They are utterly unregistered because they know that if they register, they'll get THEIR asses sued. But their time is coming. In the words of my favourite TV show: Bad boys bad boys Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 14:17 (Agree/Disagree?) This is almost good enough for the "Lighten Up" section. I think I'll start my days with a mantric chant from now on: "Must kill for Jules. Must kill for Jules. Must kill for Jules....". Michael must be really disappointed that his letter didn't do any damage to the our "puny cause". Maybe next time if he added a few phrases in tongues, claimed some more key power, and included a prophecy from Pinocchio he'd be able to call down fire from heaven to put an end to our "vile intentions" and "crazed perversions". Michael, If you're reading this, I've got three words for you: Ha Ha HAAAAA!(reply to this comment)

From Shaka Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 11:55 (Agree/Disagree?) (Points and snickers uncontrollably) Why are you so worked up Michael? All you have to do is lie back in Jesus's groping embrace and let him "take us out of the way" while fingering you with keys! Will we lose in court due to the Family actually winning or will the Lord smite us with blindness and confuse our tongues so we can't speak straight? Put down "Victory in Babylon" and pick up a law book. It's always good to have a backup plan in case your superpowers don't kick in when you point your finger.(reply to this comment)

From out at last Sunday, February 20, 2005, 06:53 (Agree/Disagree?) go for it man, someone needs to explain to them how the world works. victory in babylon is NOT how it goes, and usually when someone is guilty they go to jail (and no angels will knockdown the doors either). its painfully obvious that not one single person in the TF knows what in the hell they're talking about. this is an argument that i have heard hundreds of times, not least when i was considering taking a certain person to court. this claim(not even mentioning the belief that jesus, the keys and some strange looking space ships are going to save their asses when the shit comes down) proves that they are delusional and have absolutely no concept of reality. (reply to this comment)

From moon beam Thursday, January 27, 2005, 09:50 (Agree/Disagree?) LOfL (reply to this comment)

From conan Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 14:15 (Agree/Disagree?) WOOHOOO!!! Love that letter and your response....haha!! It just slays me man!!(reply to this comment)

From Shaka Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 11:39 (Agree/Disagree?) May I have the return address on that letter? If you'd like it would be my pleasure to reply to your fan mail. We could call it PR! PTL!!(reply to this comment)

From Anthony Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 10:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Hail Jules and Tim, now you have an army of "cult killers" willing to kill for your "vengance crazed perversions" and to "get you to get you off the hook." LOFL!(reply to this comment)

From Nick Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 10:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh man, I just wish the "family organization" would take you to court. It would give you the chance you need to prove once and for all what has been done. (reply to this comment)

From Nancy Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 10:28 (Agree/Disagree?) He said he had "experience with law school." That doesn't sound like actual attendance. Besides, he's got it all backward. The "young people" and "innocent kids" he claims the movingon.org website administrators are "work[ing] up" and getting to do their "dirty work" include a couple actual attorneys. We're not "kids." We were children when abused by the cult, but we're grown adults with professional careers now. Also, as I've said before and will say again and again, truth is an absolute defense against defamation. It is not defamation, either, to state one was abused or name the abusers. Further, being "mowed down" is not a legal remedy. And due to the lovely freedom of speech we enjoy, because we are no longer in an abusive cult, profanity is not the basis of a civil action, much less a crime. Michael, if that is even your name dear, no one hides behind me. No one is manipulating me. I speak for myself. I'm not a "kid" either. I'm a licensed attorney very aware of the implications of my statements and losing no sleep worrying about any legal redress. In fact, I welcome it. I welcome and encourage any cult member who thinks they have been maligned and defamed to bring an action. It would be an opportunity for my and many others to be heard. It would provide a judgment, as well, for us to point to in which our stories were established. How interesting for a member of an abusive and exploitative sex cult to caution others that are in a vulnerable position or to allege others are involved in "crazed perversions."(reply to this comment)

From openmind Sunday, February 20, 2005, 08:12 (Agree/Disagree?) One wonders if the "experience in law school" was as a janitor or possibly as a busking show troupe.(reply to this comment)

From openmind Sunday, February 20, 2005, 08:12 (Agree/Disagree?) One wonders if the "experience in law school" was as a janitor or possibly as a busking show troupe.(reply to this comment)

From blue Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 11:49 (Agree/Disagree?) Well put, Nancy. (reply to this comment)

From Anthony Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 10:58 (Agree/Disagree?) Guess they'll always see us as just kids.(reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 14:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah, notice how the zerb calls her 25-year old son "my boy Pete." When was she going to allow him to be a man?(reply to this comment)

From Joe H Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 10:57 (Agree/Disagree?) I am SO turned on right now!(reply to this comment)

From xolox Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 10:32 (Agree/Disagree?) Once again Nancy, you put it so nicely. (reply to this comment)