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Getting Real : This Site Sucks

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from Poker Star
Monday, August 13, 2007 - 23:01

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, having a great year. Went to the Domican for the month of Jan. Spent 6 weeks on the beach in Mexico. 6 weeks in Las Vegas for the world series of Poker. Just got back from a week in Chicago. Leaving for Bonaire in two weeks for a scuba trip, then off to Hawaii. One month in Kuai and one month on Oahu. Be back in Nov. to enjoy the holidays. New years in Tempe on Mill. Then Mardi Gras in Feb. I'm taking next year off of work to volunteer for the Ron Paul campaign. Life is what you make it.
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from ice daemon
Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 18:00

(Agree/Disagree?)
having my status decreased to MM...getting kicked out of the home....and moving to Canada where i decided i wasn't going to keep living the lie was the BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME! god bless the system and mammon, they rock!
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from ice daemon
Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 18:00

(Agree/Disagree?)
having my status decreased to MM...getting kicked out of the home....and moving to Canada where i decided i wasn't going to keep living the lie was the BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME! god bless the system and mammon, they rock!
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from peterfisherman
Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 00:54

(Agree/Disagree?)
well,i've out of this cult for 31 years & could never back then forseen how my life would be 31 years from then. i am happily married for 14 years have 5 wonderful children although they try us often would not trade.we homeschool,have a great church we have attended for 6 years & before that another biblicly sound church for 20 years,i've employed as a nurses assist. for 23 years @ the university of iowa hospital in & department & psych.life is not always perfect & trials come but the key to being content is not external but based on the joy that comed from a personal & constant relationship with Jesus Christ & i got that as well as my wife & 4 of 5 children(youngerst is 4 & under the age of accountablity) God Bless.
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From neez
Wednesday, May 31, 2006, 04:52

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Agree/Disagree?)
I sincerely hope you're not the one responsible for teaching your kids grammar.(reply to this comment
from jolifam77
Friday, May 12, 2006 - 20:13

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keeping showing your happy smiley faces on this site. Maybe you're married living happily ever after. good for you. All I can say is WHY. Why me. why did I have to have the life I did. It's not fair. And to all you happy people out there. I hate you. peace out. And pleeeease stop showing pictures of happy smiley people on the front page. It just makes me cringe. assholes.
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from solemn
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 09:42

(Agree/Disagree?)
I am thrilled with my life. This was not always the case. It took a long time to get there. I think The Family is sick, oppressive, abusive, and has ruined many families and lives. That being said, it is a memory that exists in the peripheral of my mind like an uneasy dream. But the more I accomplish in life, the more I provide for my family, the more I learn and grow, the smaller my bad memories are. So yeah, Iím happy as hell. Every day I do what I want to do when I want to do it. It may not always be the most exciting thing possible but itís my life on my terms and, to me, nothing could be better than that.
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from Arneth
Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 04:35

(Agree/Disagree?)
I for one am a happy, satisfied ex-member. I am fluent in Family lingo, know the pubs inside out but I am not some helpless person out on the street. I am studying physics, my life-long passion (one which, paradoxically, was kindled by Berg's astronomy letters, even if they were false). I do martial arts, work out, watch movies and TV but GASP, still read the Bible and pray. The Family was so wrong on so many levels but somehow the Gospel message trickled through. I don't regret my time there, but I am glad that I've moved on.
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from Kitty4z9
Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 11:34

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I'm not sure exactly what the author intended when he wrote this article and some of the comments on it seem way off subject. However, this is what I think it should be about.

Yes there are happy ex-members out there. I am one of them. I will never forget my experience in the family because it was my childhood and helped shape the person I am today, but I have moved on.

We all have stuggles and crap that goes on in our lives and not all problems can be blamed on having been in TF But I think most of know that already. For those that did not have a support group (ie. family or friends not involved with TF) to help them when they got out or spent more then ten years there, I believe they should have counseling.

This website is to help eachother move on and pursue a better life free from oppression and abuse and it is unfair to imply that we are all just whiners and losers. This is part of the healing process. So what if someone strips or waits tables to pay the rent. They're doing what they have to do get by and make a life free from TF. You should be applauding them for making it out not criticizing. You should think of success as more than in just terms of money.


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from Kitty4z9
Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 11:34

Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

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from Jules
Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 15:44

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Before we get any other me tooers contributing to the criticism of those speaking out, let me just say I have had about enough of this.

Those of us speaking out have built a network, have started a foundation, told our stories to the media, have been pursuing legal courses of action against abusers, have built a web site, have gone to school, have professional careers, are raising our children, have custody of younger siblings, have supported people leaving, have been there for each other, are healing from abuse, have helped our parents, are finding our own way, have respected each other, are MOVING ON!

What have you done?
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from j.
Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 12:09

(Agree/Disagree?)

A pertinate quote comes to mind after reading this...

"English mutha f**ker, do you speak it??"

(Jules Winnfield, as played by Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction)
(reply to this comment)

From j.
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 12:32

(Agree/Disagree?)
* read 'pertinent'(reply to this comment
from banal_commentator
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 23:16

(Agree/Disagree?)

Are you a shining example of one who has earned an education, Superman? I hope you're being sarcastic if thats what you're implying, because when I talked to you in the chat, I seriously thought you were a delinquent teenager; judging by your horrible spelling, hasty illogic, complete lack of comprehension, and irrational homophobia. And I'm really not trying to be mean, just telling you what I, and everyone else assumed.

To everyone else: can we please not gang up on Superman lest he not frequent the chatroom anymore, the little troll in me likes mocking him and having him get all riled up. Also, his stupidity, makes me feel so superior. Thanks!
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from Ian
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 23:15

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Ignorance is bliss. Successful.....suck this. I can't think of a single thing you said that is a designator for success or accomplishment (in my mind, far from the norm) in fact, you appear thru your writing to be somewhat of a conceded neo-dork, and I'm guessing you try to act all quasi-ghetto on the weekends when your hangin' with the "wish they were as cool as the average" guys.

My guess is that you just started some sort of nursing school and may have just recently gotten laid for the first time since leaving the group, so you needed to blow off steam. So go fart somewhere else, you don't have a clue. The very second you think you might have achieved is the day you find you've got another 10 years of learning just to discover that you don't know shit about shit. Nothing. Fucking Nada.

I've had days were I've wanted to act like you, some might argue "most" days I do, but the fact remains that all that truly matters is what I think, and trust me....I don't know shit. That might sound a little contradictory but take my word for it; "You're wrong, just think a little harder about it all".

I have 18 employees, a customer list that reads like a who's who of Fortune 500 high tech firms, recently passed the 2 year marker that about 85% of start ups don't get to look back at. I have achieved absolutely nothing. Really, I mean it. I have earned the right to work my fucking ass off, serve as a slave to my own creation, pay people who labor day and night to ruin or bankrupt me, at a minimum they would do or say anything to even share authority. And one last thing; I realize that a naked woman hanging from a pole with a spot light on her makes an easy target, but, I firmly believe and have said before; "You gotta love the strippers" it's an axiom of truth, trust me. If you don't it's because you're not sleeping with any, and that is truly a horrible thing, almost the worst thing that could happen to man. Find a girlfriend, quickly please. If not a stripper, at the least some sort of dancing inclined type of person preferably with a touch of Latin, Italian, Portuguese, or Brazilian in her. This should humble you and make you realize how much "true achievement" you have yet to experience.

If you're ever in Gotham, I'll recommend a few, but don't use me as a reference, it will ruin my reputation. Thanks.


................another fine post by ian
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From brasileira
Thursday, July 14, 2005, 06:07

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Excuse me, mister,

.."with a touch of Latin, Italian, Portuguese, or Brazilian in her..." What do you mean by that???

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From banal_commentator
Friday, January 21, 2005, 23:34

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Ian: champion of stripper rights and reputations. You will pardon me Ian, if I don't think that scoring an easy stripper (who likes you solely for your dollar and who will dump you like she'll never dump her coke habit as soon as your lack of looks or charm outweigh that dollar) is the epitome of success. Pussy is cheap my friend; yes, even hot pussy. Ok, well not cheap, like what I think is cheap; but you know, not that much more than a couple stockshares, which judging from your alleged list of accomplishments is something that I assume you can afford.

Man, that I were wealthy. I would hire hot guys to have sex with me for money, so that I can stop shaving. (reply to this comment

From Ian
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 21:42

(Agree/Disagree?)

Well um......hot people (very PC) and sex for money. Know were in a conversation I dig.

So if I said; "1 out of 2 isn't bad". That would leave you to guess whether I would have sex for money but wasn't hot; or, if I was a Chippendales type except not completely consumed with watching my dick as I flopped it around in front of the mirror and also had a major issue with people who would sell themselves (also known as dishonest people who don't want others to know their price) for a few (hundred) bucks.

Actually you are completely missing my admittedly "hidden" point. I was actually being somewhat poetic, or at least attempting...like some sort of "jail break" as I dashed ackwardly for my "poetic side". I was refering to the way I find myself completely struck or dumbfounded by the beauty of a woman. The raw energy, sexuality, power, ability to control, it captures me and generally has the ability to take my mind off of just about anything, including common sense. The power of a woman when a man is sexually attracted to her is something I would like to harness and study. Or bottle and sell in aerosol cans.

I guess it a little like people who say that they feel so insignificant when they first saw the Grand Canyon, I get the same way at times, there is definitly something about a perfect figure, especially if it can move. Anyway, just wanted to clarify, I wasn't saying being around strippers is the end of lifes road, just that I realize how much there is to learn when I try to understand why it attracts me and the control that various women have had over me. And also it's about feeling good, all the money in the world for 3 or 4 hours only wouldn't equal a few hit's of X, a few $k, and a night at Crazy Horse Too.



......another fine post by ian(reply to this comment

From banal_commentator
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 11:48

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I'm sorry I didn't realise how poignant and evolved your penchant for strippers was. (reply to this comment
From Ian
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 21:44

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Now....Know. Fuck, spell check is useless, I hate myself. I have had enough. I'm pulling the plug. I will never get this fucking Now/Know thing together.......ever.(reply to this comment
from Joe H
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 22:47

(Agree/Disagree?)
Fuck you, superman. The successful among us shall not be inviting you to any parties -- models don't like doing coke with assholes (by that I mean stupid assholes, like you; they like charming assholes).
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From Silence_Restriction_Kid
Friday, January 21, 2005, 22:52

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
On the flip side (no pun intended) I love doing coke out of models assholes! ;-)(reply to this comment
From banal_commentator
Friday, January 21, 2005, 23:35

(Agree/Disagree?)
Really? I don't, cause all the coke gets lost. (reply to this comment
from DeeJay
Friday, January 21, 2005 - 02:07

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I left about 5 years ago after 19 years of the experience. I now work in the education sector securing and opening English schools. I work as principal of one, and education director/partner in 6 others. I make about 2000 US a month, plus a 20% percent yearly profit. In perspective, that's upper middle class in this country. within the top 15-20 percent. - I never finished highschool. I depend solely on hardwork and common sense - if you want something good, you gotta work for it. they come not to those who wait, but those who go after it.

Successful? You could say that. Happy? Well, what can i say. everyone in life has reason to be happy and reason to be unhappy. I do not whine and complain about my past, but we do have to accept the fact that we are "different" in many senses of the word. Much of what happens to you as a child, shapes the person you become - consciously or subconsciously. and i do believe it is our right to question our parents as to the decisions that they made for us, the same way that your child will one day question your parenting. They (our parents) do need to face the consequences, in that their actions affected not only their lives, but ours as well (at a time when we had no choice). I would say that to any parent, not just ours.

People rant and go on about the past many times because they are searching clues to their own identity.This leads to where i do agree with you. life's life. We do have the power within ourselves to do whatever it is we want. so people, when you've finished feeling sorry for yourselves ( I don't mean it in a derogatory sense. it's something that everyone needs, and it takes time ), take stock of your own life, assess what it is you want to do, and for crying out loud DO IT! In the end the only limitations on your own life is yourself and your own mind.

Moaning about the past does nothing to better the future. All that you're doing is giving extension to the power that they once held over you. YOU WILL ONLY BE TRULY FREE OF IT ONCE YOU REALISE THAT! The site sums it up in the name - MOVING ON. Just think about - are we really doing that?

I do believe there are many who deserve to be punished to any degree possible. I do believe that many of those responsible did KNOWINGLY use and abuse my family and many others for their own selfish and personal gain. some were just stupid pawns, but for those who participated knowingly and aware of the impact on mine and so many other lives, their actions are to me disgusting, despicable and unforgivable on any level. IF I COULD INFLICT MY EXPERIENCES ON YOU TENFOLD, IT STILL WOULD BE NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH. Still, since when did I become God? For those that do deserve punishment, they will receive it one way or the other. and I do not believe it is necessarily our responsibility to wreak it upon them. Karma, you reap what you sow. if not in this life, then in the next. Revenge is an empty black hole that, like the principle of a vaccuum, will simply consume and never be satisfied. It's been about them too long, let's discontinue this legacy, let's make this about us now. Their whole lives were about them, let's not make our lives about them as well.

And for all those still in, they do will reach a day when they will wake up to the reality of their own existences and will have to make those choices for themselves. Us pressuring them to leave is no different from Mama pressuring them to stay. LET THEM MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS!

I believe i have about as much attached to this as anyone else. I have 4 brothers in, 4 sisters in, and 1 sister out. Not a day goes by that i don't think I want to "save them from the clutches of the big lie and all the abuses". But any changes in your life you have to be comfortable with yourself. it has to be what you truly believe is right. otherwise, them making a decision based on what you say, and them making a decision based on what "the letters" say, amounts to the same thing - Doing something because someone else told them to. Let them figure it out. They will if they have any brains.

I guess what I'm saying is just - Let's not be guilty of the same things we accuse them of. Remember, the passion that makes you so "against" them, is the same passion that made our parents so
"for" them. Yes, it was all a big stupid lie, but how were our parents supposed to know, they too were simply caught up in the "fire and passion" of youth and of a cause, the same way many of us are. I say, let's be better than that. Life your own life the way that you want to, and allow others to do the same. They too will realise on their own what their life is worth and will do what's right by them, with or without everyone constantly berating them.

And to those who think they're a "victim". Everyone is a victim of something. Everyone has a past. Everyone has a story of sorrow and suffering. Everyone thinks their life would be better if they were someone else. But let's not sit around and let that ruin the rest of your lives.We are given in this life what we are given in this life, but we can chose what we do with it. Do something with your life. We don't have to be the old man who sits around corner liquor moaning and groaning at the hand he got. If someone like me can do it - believe me, anyone can. (This terms remains a cliche, only to those who don't try. If you're a loser, you would be a loser in or out. whether you were born in the Family or not. The pattern exists in all societies of the world. It's your own lack of trying that makes you a loser, your inability to take life by the balls and make something happen for yourself. What did you think? that everything would be handed to you? No-one makes you a loser except your own self-pity - BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE!)

And to those ex-members who are happy, good luck. I'm just voicing opinion here. If there are any who can relate to what i've just said at all, feel free to contact me. I do like to chat about these things once in awhile, and I too have questions, and I would like to hear other perspectives.
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From
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 16:43

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Agree/Disagree?)
$2000 a month? wow... my basic budget is $6000 per month and I need another 2k plus to live on... and I'm not even in the top 25% wage earners. (average household income here is 100K) $2000 would cover meals and starbucks tho...(reply to this comment
From DeeJay
Sunday, January 23, 2005, 07:09

(Agree/Disagree?)
I guess i should've added - there are just some places in the world where alittle bit of dough goes a bit farther.(reply to this comment
From live_fast-die_young
Monday, January 24, 2005, 12:35

(Agree/Disagree?)

Hey DeeJay, remember Rosie? Met you a couple times in GZ. You're still in China then? Sounds like you're doing well.

Very funny about the money going farther here! I'm barely earning $1500US/mo. & I am SOO rolling in it now with monthly expenditures at only $300US. :-)

And in response to original article, namely the poignant question " so is there any other job for a hot family chic than striping? or waiting tables? Go to school damit! " I would like to say that I only know of two ex-fam girls who do part-time waitressing & they're doing it (like many other lesser-income families' children) in order to pay their way through SCHOOL!! The stories of girls leaving & getting into stripping and prostitution are, for the most part, just another one of TF's unfounded scare tactics to keep their kids in the group. The rest of my friends who have left are relatively happy, succesful individuals who have either put themselves through school or are endeavouring to do so.



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From DeeJay
Tuesday, January 25, 2005, 20:56

(Agree/Disagree?)

My memory's not the best, but are your parents by chance Daniel and Claire?

Sounds like you're doing pretty well yourself, good luck and all the best in yours. maybe you could help me out and give a few ideas how to keep my budget down. ha.(reply to this comment

From live_fast-die_young
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 00:48

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Yep, that's right. If you clicked on my profile you'd see the same.

C'mon honey, you can't possibly be spending too much where you're at? The city bus costs what, 2 Yuan? Take the bus. And give up alcohol for the dragon--I hear he's pretty cheap there. ;-) (reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 08:11

(Agree/Disagree?)

heh, well i gave up on buses about 3 years ago. keeping up with business meetings, classes and still having to have a social life just couldn't quite cope with the crowded, turtlespeed buses.

Funny you should say that, i actually did quit drinking, puffing and shooting... all for the dragon (aren't you proud of me? ha) about 6 months ago. complicated, long story.

I don't have to spend that much, i choose to. If you ever met a guy like my girl, you'd understand.(reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 08:11

(Agree/Disagree?)

heh, well i gave up on buses about 3 years ago. keeping up with business meetings, classes and still having to have a social life just couldn't quite cope with the crowded, turtlespeed buses.

Funny you should say that, i actually did quit drinking, puffing and shooting... all for the dragon (aren't you proud of me? ha) about 6 months ago. complicated, long story.

I don't have to spend that much, i choose to. If you ever met a guy like my girl, you'd understand.(reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 08:11

(Agree/Disagree?)

heh, well i gave up on buses about 3 years ago. keeping up with business meetings, classes and still having to have a social life just couldn't quite cope with the crowded, turtlespeed buses.

Funny you should say that, i actually did quit drinking, puffing and shooting... all for the dragon (aren't you proud of me? ha) about 6 months ago. complicated, long story.

I don't have to spend that much, i choose to. If you ever met a guy like my girl, you'd understand.(reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Thursday, January 27, 2005, 08:10

(Agree/Disagree?)

heh, well i gave up on buses about 3 years ago. keeping up with business meetings, classes and still having to have a social life just couldn't quite cope with the crowded, turtlespeed buses.

Funny you should say that, i actually did quit drinking, puffing and shooting... all for the dragon (aren't you proud of me? ha) about 6 months ago. complicated, long story.

I don't have to spend that much, i choose to. If you ever met a guy like my girl, you'd understand.(reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 20:21

(Agree/Disagree?)

Business: find what attributes, qualities and products you do have, and take them somewhere else where they don't have them - they pay a much better price for them. I'm just lucky that in a society where money is as scant as it is, I have in my possession a few of those.

Can you teach English? Do you know anything of child psychology? Hell, come here I'll pay your Starbucks, meals.... and housing. You'll have to support the rest of your own lifestyle tho... ie drinking habits, girls, coke...whatever you're into. ha.(reply to this comment

From geo
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 16:31

(Agree/Disagree?)

"I now work in the education sector securing and opening English schools. I work as principal of one, and education director/partner in 6 others. I make about 2000 US a month, plus a 20% percent yearly profit. In perspective, that's upper middle class in this country. within the top 15-20 percent.-I never finished highschool. "

Do you by chance live in somolia? You work all those jobs and only make 2 g's a month? and what the hell is 20% profit? profit on what, do you mean increase in salary or bonus?

You know, maybe you should've finished highschool.

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From DeeJay
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 20:34

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No, I live in China. 20% profit - sorry i worded that wrong, 20 percent of income (not profit, if it makes it any clearer). if the company generates 100K, I make 20K.

I would have liked to finish highschool, but my sixth grade Workbook was the last school book i was ever able given the priviledge of accessing from my parents. I have done self-study since then, and have obtained a university degree in child psychology, and am working on my MBA.

On everything else, you can read my reply to iams.

Out of curiousity. is this the only thing anyone has any reaction to in my comment? Do you or anybody else relate, understand, disagree with anything else i've said? I'm here to find other's opinions on things, but i'm a bit diappointed that this is the only thing anyone has any reaction/comment about. pls. speak your mind.(reply to this comment

From iams
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 14:29

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I left about 5 years ago after 19 years of the experience. I now work in the education sector securing and opening English schools. I work as principal of one, and education director/partner in 6 others. I make about 2000 US a month, plus a 20% percent yearly profit. In perspective, that's upper middle class in this country. within the top 15-20 percent?????????

unless you live in a 3rd world country, your income is well below upper middle class. what could have possibly given you the idea that a yearly salary of 24,000 is good or even decent. im sorry but either you are underpaid or stupid.(reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 20:11

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Yes i do live in a 3rd world country. The name may or may ring a bell in your mind - CHINA. The country with a population of 1.4 billion people, the country responsible for Tiananmen square. The country where people where those stupid straw hats, ride bicycles and work in those rice paddies.

i'm sorry that i wasn't lucky enough to be born in one of your rich cultures. I was born, raised, and am a national of a country which is sadly condemned by history to be "behind" yours.

That only thing sadder is that you totally miss my point. Everyone has different standards for success, and the fact that being non-successful in one country can still put you above those successful in others is something i will forever have to live with.

If that's how you want to judge my success, then fine, but the fact of the matter is i came into this world with less than you, into a society that has less to distribute among it's citizens. And have within it managed to transfrom myself into a decent and fairly productive (by our standards i guess i should add) citizen, which believe me, i was not when i left TF.

What could have possibly given you the idea that a yearly salary of 24,000 is good or even decent?

- The fact that i live here and have lived here my whole life. The fact that i am a native to this country which i'm sorry, puts me in a better place to talk than you. The fact that the average wage for a new university graduate in my country is between 4 and 500US a month. Did you not read the last part of that paragraph - IN PERSPECTIVE,......

My point was not to brag about how much about what i have - which i know is not much by many standards, especially by yours. my point was simply - WHAT YOU DO WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. I was a less than average citizen when I started, and have manged to reach by my 24th year what 80 - 85 percent of the people in my country never get to. To you I may not be successful, but to me, your judgement means nothing to me because you know nothing of of the circumstance of society that I live in. (if that sounds derogatory, i'm sorry. it's not meant to be. by the same token I will never, and you should never let me, measure your success by my standards) I'm not a prodigy. i'm not one of a kind. i will never be Bill Gates, or the owner of the latest Fortune 500 company. I am an ordinary person trying to encourage others to attain, at least, ordinary success. If that's too much difficult to understand, again, i'm sorry.(reply to this comment

From FGA with sis still in group
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 21:16

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Deejay, you are very strong!! You can be super proud of yourself! You have much wisdom for your young years, believe me! You can be proud!! (reply to this comment
From DeeJay
Sunday, January 23, 2005, 09:45

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Tx for the encouragement. It's nice to hear something coming from an FGA. i'm sure you have perspectives and "wisdom" (alittle weird hearing that i have to admit. ha) i have not had the priviledge of having. Your opinions are valued by me as well.(reply to this comment
From FGA with sis still in group
Sunday, January 23, 2005, 09:51

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Agree/Disagree?)
Thanks, well, I just want to encourage all of you to keep fighting. You have a great attitude about all this...see my other comment below...unsigned...about having the missionary friend in China. I'd love to go there someday. She teaches English and loves it! (reply to this comment
From good for you!!
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 20:38

(
Agree/Disagree?)
DeeJay, I admire you for what you've accomplished. I personally don't think this website is about comparing and I don't think anyone should. (reply to this comment
From DeeJay
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 20:57

(Agree/Disagree?)

thank you. i've been reading more on the site in the last few days and am starting to get a better idea. it's true that there's alot perhaps i didn't understand real well. it was my first time to voice anything, and i have been told i don't express myself particularly well. i think yours is the only positive response i've gotten. tx(reply to this comment

From
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 21:22

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Not so...don't be so down on yourself...you expressed yourself REALLY well for someone your age. I have a friend who is a missionary in China. I have been supporting her for the past two years. She often shares about life there. We Americans have no clue. You are doing great in spite of great odds! Keep up the positive attitude. It's the only way to make it! It's your life and YOU can choose to do what you want with it now...that is the important thing. Continue to prove them (TF) wrong! They don't WANT you to succeed, because that is a testimony against them...if only the other young people could see that. Keep up the good work! You Are great!!!! (reply to this comment
From DeeJay
Sunday, January 23, 2005, 09:57

(Agree/Disagree?)
Judging from the encounters i've had at this site. it seems that there are. Tx again for your input. you're may not be fully aware of the extent, but it has been so great to be able to express these things and get a few responses like yours..... It's been a long 5 years with many days that i truly thought i might just be alone. Now at least i know i'm not. All the best..(reply to this comment
From Vicky
Sunday, January 23, 2005, 10:11

(Agree/Disagree?)

I would be extremely hesitant to judge all of us here by the two or three jerks who made a big deal out of your article. I was very impressed. I think that most of us here thought you made an excellent example of someone who has risen to the challenge. But some people always want to tear down, to use a horribly cliched, 'familese' term...

I for one do NOT measure success solely by monetary means. There are many people who are successful in a LOT of other ways. I am a fulltime student with two children and no real opportunity to work for extra money, so I am not by any means living the high life, but I consider myself very successful. I know (most of the time) where I am going and I am determined to get there, even if it's a long, hard slog.

I do think that you will find, if you stick around a bit longer, that many people in this community are genuinely supportive of others and very few routinely dismiss other's accomplishments like some have done here.(reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Sunday, January 23, 2005, 21:09

(Agree/Disagree?)
i plan to. tx. you're right. my initial reaction when reading alot of the stuff was a bit negative. but that's what i got onto the site for - to look and to learn. I've found many things i was looking for, and i've definitely learned alot. I'm finding that while the styles of expression may differ, most people do have relevant things to say: and most people really are just trying to help each other out. Tx. for the insight.(reply to this comment
From DeeJay
Sunday, January 23, 2005, 21:09

(Agree/Disagree?)
i plan to. tx. you're right. my initial reaction when reading alot of the stuff was a bit negative. but that's what i got onto the site for - to look and to learn. I've found many things i was looking for, and i've definitely learned alot. I'm finding that while the styles of expression may differ, most people do have relevant things to say: and most people really are just trying to help each other out. Tx. for the insight.(reply to this comment
From Vicky
Saturday, January 22, 2005, 20:54

(Agree/Disagree?)
I second that! (reply to this comment
From Big Diff
Friday, January 21, 2005, 02:57

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

"Us pressuring them to leave is no different from Mama pressuring them to stay."

Except Mama gets money from them staying!(reply to this comment

From DeeJay
Friday, January 21, 2005, 21:12

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Is that what it's all about? a little bit of money? I was talking about morally, and in the name of a person's right to free choice however stupid someone else may find it. ever made a choice other's thought was stupid? don't tell me you haven't.

Sure there are differences, the same way there are differences between a hitting a child, and kicking a child, but the consequences are the same, and you are in effect doing the same thing - beating a child.

besides, you think no-one makes money off you out here??(reply to this comment

From Big Diff
Friday, January 21, 2005, 21:55

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Yeah my boss makes money off me out here. He gives me enough that I don't mind.

The point you're missing is that *I* don't make money off anyone leaving (but Mama makes money off people staying. Get it? It's not that complicated.)(reply to this comment

From Big Diff
Friday, January 21, 2005, 21:56

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Plus, that "little bit og money" adds up when 8,000 people are sending you 10% of what they get.(reply to this comment
From DeeJay
Friday, January 21, 2005, 22:15

(Agree/Disagree?)

You make a point, and you are right in what you are saying.

What i meant by saying what i said though was simply that "coering" by either side is still wrong. I say my piece to my own brothers and sisters, but they're the only ones that can make the decision.

In the end, i cannot tell then that they must do it this way or that way. i can only say what i think, and let them make their own piece and do what's right by them, not by me and not by anyone else.(reply to this comment

from Siolo
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 23:16

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Oh and Superman,

What medical profession exactly is it that you are in? Last I checked most require the ability to write in a legible and articulate fashion. Or maybe that's just because I work for a University hospital. Not to question the extent of your staggering success in the world or anything....

In awe of your triumph over the pain,

siolo
(reply to this comment)

from Siolo
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 21:42

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Superman,

There are plenty of us that are doing well, despite our Family upbrining.

I have a well-respected, well-paying job, a house, a healthy family life and am continuing my education (applying to Medical school this year). I have worked so very hard at "moving-on".

However, to tell the truth, I still struggle with suicidal thoughts, feel alienated and despondent and have a lot of anger towards some people in my past that continue to carry on in the Family despite the fact that they are perverts and sadists. I have tried to focus these negative feelings into positive activity, but I still have to fight to keep my head above water a lot of the time.

I know it's cliche but I always think of the protest cry "No justice, no peace." My own inability to find personal peace is based on this essential truth. I believe Ricky experienced this feeling as well. He was trying to "move on", and he did have people in his life that cared about him. But there are some things that cannot be repaired no matter how hard you try.

I'm sorry Ricky, I wish things could have been different for you..
(reply to this comment)

from neez
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 20:15

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I guess you swapped your basic spelling classes for therapy sessions. Or did you just go to the same school as Bush.

& maybe think about cutting down on the prozac. You might remember how to spell your given 'profession'.
(reply to this comment)

from did you forget it all?
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 19:10

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Jumping to judge ricky for his actions without trying to understand his state and where he was at mentaly is quite immature. It should be clear to you that all of the abuses and experiences you had, filtered down from berg and that ricky was on the front row of the firing line. add to that the fact that he felt the personal guilt that it was his parents who caused the harm on all of us that he later learned of, and the anguish of seeing his sisters and those close to him hurt; Thats a hell of alot from anyones perspective. While I dont condone what he did neither do I condone the cult that raised him and made him what he was. It has taken all of us alot of mental fortitude to get to where we are now and for someone whose family had a history of mental illness it was obviously just too much... It's actually a fairly typical story, the abused grow up to be whacko, who's to blame? maybe both of them? I would certainly not excuse his mother of blame...
(reply to this comment)

from j.
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 18:33

(Agree/Disagree?)

Most of us who visit this site are actually doing quite well... we all appear to have computers and internet access for starters, we overwhelmingly seem to be getting education or are through with it and are executives or managers of some sort. I dont personally know many ex-members that aren't doing well, but if I did I think I would do what I could to help them, especially after the rough time I had "moving on" on my own with no support physically or mentally. Since you seem to be concerned; have you considered mentoring, or doing SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE? I'm glad you're doing well (or so you say) but this sites aim is pretty clear I think, to offer a place on line where those of us with a common background can gather and discuss issues or whatever, and hopefully find some commonality... it's a free country and if you dont want to involve yourself in it then dont... either join in the conversation or stay out.

P.S. Once again, there's nothing wrong with seeking justice for some of the wrongs we suffered; in the hopes of making sure it doesn't happen to some of our brothers and sisters or friends who are still in.
(reply to this comment)

from jpmagero
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 17:37

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I just hope I never get one of your prescriptions. If you spell them as poorly as you wrote this article, someone may pay a dear price for your "success".

Having said that, I think I have found it relatively easy to adjust, or at least appear to adjust on the outside. While my past still makes me angry when I think about it, I have, some may consider, been quite successfull:


  • hired into a large company

  • have a good paying job

  • am about to buy a house

  • my kids are happy and have all they need

  • my wife is working now

The group will not have the pleasure of taking up any more of my productive thought processes than I choose to direct at them.

I believe the majority of people here do not condone what Ricky did, but just the same, there is a comprehensive understanding of what drove him to do it. Everybody deals with their demons in different ways and its sad he felt this was the only way to do it. But just like some are able to block out large portions of their upbringing, some are not and if the frustration that builds is unbearable to the point of violence, then shame on his parents (if you can call them that) who did nothing to help him ease his pain.
(reply to this comment)

From Anita
Thursday, January 20, 2005, 19:02

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

I agree with you, JP--escpecially the part about: "The group will not have the pleasure of taking up any more of my productive thought processes than I choose to direct at them." That is the key. As long as one continues to hate and hold anger (even if justifiable), then that person is still being controlled by the object of their anger. Did you know that? Well, Ricky is the perfect example. He allowed himself to still be controlled by whether the group ever rectified what they did to him or not. Moving on means just that--going to a higher place, not in stuffing it all down, but in being able to let it go finally (and therapy IS a great help for that, NOT talking about all the abuses over and over as they continually play like a tape recording in your mind, so that you are so obsessed by them you can think of nothing else, all the while, sharing these thoughts with others like you who will continually add fuel to your fire.)

Do you realize that you are all capable of committing the same crime that Ricky did?--Simply because hate is what comes right before murder. When you hate someone, you are saying, "I don't think you have a right to exist. There is not room for both of us in this world. One of us has to go." I "hear" it in everything I read that you write. Don't you know that two wrongs don't make a right? Who are you to say that you are so perfect? Be careful that what you are accusing another of you don't do one day (and that includes what your abusers have done to you.) You have suffered more than any kids should ever have had to, that is for sure. But, don't you want YOUR kids to have a happy upbringing? Do you think they will be able to as long as you don't get healed of your past? Don't you think they are affected by it, too? Okay, I can hear you say, "All the more reason to seek justice". But, don't you realize that the only justice that will be gotten is if you stop allowing them to control your lives? That is part of their plan, can't you see it? They prophesied that you would be miserable, that your life would be worthless, that you would be unstable and unsuccessful.

PROVE THEM WRONG!!!

Don't you want to be free of all that? Wouldn't that be nice? Do you know that you are not the first, neither will you be the last to suffer at the expense of someone else's mistakes?

Unfortunately for us all, we live in an imperfect world where there will ALWAYS be injustices and abuses. The people who really help those who are going through those things, though, are those who have found answers in the midst of it, and not those who just commiserate along with them. These are the real heros, and they do exist. These are those who, in turn, become healers themselves. Yes, it helps to find someone who has been there, as perhaps that person will have more empathy. But, as many of you say, you don't want sympathy or pity.

HOWEVER, if what you REALLY want is for the pain to be gone, then it is up to you to stop carrying it around and let go of it. OR, ask someone who is capable to do so for you, if you know what I mean. Not trying to preach here, but there is someone who died for all of that stuff you are carrying around, and he is NOT the same God you were taught in the COG/Family. HE really DOES love you and he wants to heal your broken heart if you will give it to HIM. HIS heart breaks for you. Please, why don't you give HIM a chance. You are obviously not helping one another in your pain, even if you think you are. Anger and bitterness will only drive you insane (like it did Ricky), not set you free. There is only one person who can set you free, and it is YOU who gets to make the choice.

It's YOUR life, so, take it.

P.S. Your family is beautiful, JP, and so are many of yours that I have seen on here. Love life and be thankful for what you have ahead of you. There is so much more to enjoy and experience. You will only be stronger because of what you have gone through, believe me, I know.

If you care to write, just tell me under here and I'll post an email address. (reply to this comment

From Silence_Restriction_Kid
Friday, January 21, 2005, 22:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
I hate a lot of things in this world, and what TF did to my brothers, sisters and I is one of them. So does that mean I'm homicidal? To be honest with you if you are as naive and ignorant as you sound in this thread I would probably hate you to. That does not mean I want to kill you though. I guess what they say is true; ignorance is bliss.
Ah...; if only I were that ignorant.

(reply to this comment

from Jerseygirl
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 14:40

(Agree/Disagree?)

Just the fact that anyone can even get out of bed and manage to type a comment or article demonstrates success on some level. Sorry to be anal but success is quite subjective in my experience--everyone has a different idea of what it is. Same goes for happiness. I think I've been successful and yet I'm not sure I'm exactly happy but then again, ask me tommorow or when I'm in the middle of an exam and you may get a different response.

I think that people who constantly bring up this topic should really spend a few moments reviewing what this site is for.
(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker
Thursday, January 20, 2005, 14:44

(Agree/Disagree?)
I would add that just the fact that they can afford a computer and the monthly fees for an internet connection shows some level of success.(reply to this comment
from thinker711
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 13:36

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree that, sadly, many SGA's may not be very successful; but this is primarily the family's fault for not providing adequate education (not to mention all the psychological and emotional abuse they inflicted). That's not to say that nothing can be done about it. I applaud those who have been able to get an education or have been successful in their careers. But success is an uphill battle for anyone - and this battle is amplified for ex-family members. It often takes years to simply adjust to the "system" - which must first be done before one can move on to other endeavors. I would be careful about passing judgment on those who are having difficulties adjusting to a new life. Furthermore, many of them have every right to be resentful toward TF, their parents, abusers, etc. The key is not to let these things (i.e., the past) inhibit success. I agree that one can seek retribution and justice without letting hatred and anger consume them to the point of stifling their own success.
(reply to this comment)
From thinker711
Thursday, January 20, 2005, 14:11

(Agree/Disagree?)
P.S. While I do believe that Ricky's actions were in many was a mistake, I DO feel sorry for him. No human should have to go through what he did. That said, I cannot pass judgment on him since I don't know what I would have done had I been in his shoes. It is easy to say we should move on and that what he did was wrong and that "I would have never done that." But the reality is that our environments shape each of us and you may have been a very different person had you experienced what he did. In some ways, it is arrogant to take credit for all of your personal success. I know that I would probably not be where I am had I experienced everything Ricky did; indeed, I would not be who I am. (reply to this comment
from Big Sister
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:58

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
What? You can only have one emotion at a time?? What I see on this site is people being hopeful, happy, ambitious and Angry all at the same time. I think it's important for people (well, adults anyway) to be able to hold multiple feelings in their hearts and minds at one time. Being able to do that means you can go to work, go to class, study, raise kids, make and keep friends, pursue hobbies AND fight back when you've been wronged.
(reply to this comment)
from Vicky
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:18

(Agree/Disagree?)

...Sigh...

What can I say? We've been through this so many times before.


(reply to this comment)

from clark
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 09:53

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

While I understand your annoyance with others who don't seem to be as "happy" as you, to be fair, everyone is entitled to thier own way of dealing.

I don't know may people on this site personally but I read it often and it seems like there are many successful people out there, they are just angry and vocal, and with reason. I am 26, been out 8 years and have 3 kids, happily married for 3 years and life is wonderful for me and my family. My parents and remaining siblings left recently and we are all very close. Unfortunatley most of the 2nd generationers on this site aren't blessed with parents who hold them in higher priority over TF. In my opinion, a lot of the healing process has to do with a close tight knit family and parents who are truly sorry and care. When you are just thrown out there on your own to fend for yourself with parents who condem you for it, I think the anger remains and the hatred twards our past grows. God gave us all parents and it is natures way to be nutured by them and loved till they die. When you have such a distorted family structure that has been ripped apart and warpped but strange religious beliefs, then it's hard to go out there and be "normal and happy". I thank God every day for helping my parents wake up and see the light and I pray everyone who has family still in TF finds love somewhere.
(reply to this comment)

From jimmy napalm
Monday, March 31, 2008, 10:34

(Agree/Disagree?)
Some families a divided on this though. My mom is glad she's out and is moving on with her life and career but my dad doesn't want to admit to himself or anyone else that he made a mistake by joining the group. I would also like to say that as far as x members being successful goes life is what you make it. I wasted a lot of time before I got my life together. Now I'm a jet engine mechanic on F/18 fighter planes, so make of it what you will.(reply to this comment
from tiahogan
Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 08:47

(Agree/Disagree?)

Thanks for sharing! Glad you're doing so well! Maybe you can pray everyone else who visits this site finds the same peace & prosperity as you! "Do not judge lest you be judged yourself & be found wanting".


(reply to this comment)

From afflick
Thursday, January 20, 2005, 09:36

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Everyone that I know is either in school or has already begun working in their field of choice. And no, I don't mean stripping.

You are not the only one that is succeeding in life. And BTW, "moving on' with one's life does not entail allowing child abusers to go unpunished. Perhaps you should berate Child Services for not "moving on"?(reply to this comment

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