Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article

from yeawaeva Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 07:23 (Agree/Disagree?) good on you, finally someone not making issue where there's not use making issue. talk about moving on, there's hardly anyone on this site that actually wants to move on. I'm just trying to understand how all that build up of hate actually helps you to achieve normalcy, or was that not the goal?! I mean come on people, sure there's things I dislike @ TF, that's why I'm not in it anymore, but it stops there. What's the point of going psycho on myself, got better things to do for shits and giggles. Not to mention, there's so many people that actually went through real abuse and pain and they getting over it. Think I'll get back to this later, getting bored of this subject, it's so repetitive as are all you hatemongers. (reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Wednesday, January 04, 2006, 11:11 (Agree/Disagree?) "Hatemongers"? Sounds like you're still buying into the Family's take on this site. Stick around a while. You'll find out in time that we're all human, just like you--cool, funloving, easygoing humans just like you. Sure there are times when people get ugly on this site, but, hey, that's human nature. There's a lot of beauty and emotional depth on here as well, but for some odd reason it all gets ignored by people like you when a couple of idiots come on here and say Rick was a hero for what he did. As the line in the movie "Pollyanna" goes: "When you look for the bad, you'll always be sure to find it." It works the same way for the good, you know. :)(reply to this comment)

From Lord of the Leeches Wednesday, January 04, 2006, 10:24 (Agree/Disagree?) >>Not to mention, there's so many people that actually went through real abuse and pain and they getting over it I'm wondering what you meant with this statement. Do you mean to say that what SG's experienced in TF was "fake" abuse and "fake" pain? (reply to this comment)

From exister Wednesday, January 04, 2006, 08:05 (Agree/Disagree?) You silly little freak! Normalcy? Who the fuck wants normalcy? If normalcy was all there was to hope for in the world I would have sucked on the muzzle of a revolver long ago. Apparently "shits and giggles" is the extent of your aspirations in this world. I guess we'll see how far that gets you. P.S. Did you get an adrenaline rush when you used the word "shits" in your post?(reply to this comment)

from SD76 Monday, February 14, 2005 - 06:14 (Agree/Disagree?) I've been reading >most of the letters you guys have been sending back and forth. And I >just have a short observation to make, but an important one >nonetheless. You were brought up in the Famiily and claim that >"there were many injustices that were committed" Well I have a >question for you, did you ever tell any of the [family, not home] >sheperds about this "injustices"? did you ever [while still in the >family] bring these subjects up to see them corrected? You attack >the Family as a whole but you fail to realize that much of what "you >went through" were the choices of individuals and NOT the Family as >a whole. Yes, granted, people got hurt and hurt others, but because >of their own [individual] choices. You say "I can identify with a >lot of the mental and physical abuse that children growing up in the >Family experienced" well.... let me ask you something, Where you >abused by the Family? and, if so, if you so passionately seek to >"bring justice" and "open people's eyes", why haven't you brought >those that "abused" you to trial? Jasmine, and all those of you out >there, you have to realize that if you were truly "abused", there is >a justice system in place who handles all of this cases, not only in >the system but in the Family as well, and you are but wasting time >and energy by sending all those chain letters. Look at you all, you >claim to "have done everything to get past my upbringing and fully >move on with my life" and yet you keep going back and smearing >yourselfs, you keep returning and not moving on, you keep going back >and forth with your chain letters and postings on the sites, >everytime i get one of your sorry letters i usually read "i'm just >trying to move on" Well in my opinion, if you truly wanted to "move >on" you would simply forget about the subject and continue with your >life, but instead of doing so you go back, and not only attack the >Family, but also your personal family, your family members, your >relatives, who have decided to continue on in the family, and >growing stronger in faith. What are you trying to accomplish here? >if you truly stop and analyse, you will realize that instead of >moving on with your life you have been doing the opposite. Two words >to all of you; MOVE ON!!! I respect your decision to have left the >Family, but in order to truly move on [on anything] you should >forget about it. And lastly, I don't know what part of the Family >you grew up in but as far as I and all the people in the Family are >concerned, it is the best place to be! I want my kids to grow up in >it and their kids after that, and so do all of the Family members, i >would like you all to visit this site www.myconclusion.com if you >haven't already done so, by looking through just a couple articles >you will realize what the family is trully like and should have been >for you as well, sorry if it wasn't. > >D. (reply to this comment)

From SD76 Monday, February 14, 2005, 06:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Well J, I have news for you! I have cut all ties with the Family before, and was living completely for myself [working, making money, studying,they even offered me a job in a movie] and didn't want to know anything else about it (the Fam), and after living like that for a while i realized that it wasn't worth it, as far i went i just kept missing and wanting to go back, even when i didn't get along with some of the people, so I have lived different lifestiles through my life, and guess what?!? I'm back here, living and lovin'! you know why? because there is nothing better than the Family! Been out, tried it all, and found nothing better, so there ya have it. I wish you could see how happy and fulfilled everyone in the Family has become, I want you to know we are praying for you and everyone else who has left, as you continue on with your life. I hope you realize that most of us have been out there, and tried it all, and yet we came back and are still in! because there isn't anything better. so it's not like we are "blind" and don't see "outside our bubble", but to the contrary we see where we are, and we love it! God Bless You, and help you. (reply to this comment)

From Sifuni Mungu Monday, February 14, 2005, 12:19 (Agree/Disagree?) Have you given much thought to your career and future as a Christian missionary, or are you expecting the Kingdom of Heaven to be established before your parents and all the other FGs become frail, decrepit, senile old people who need fulltime nursing care? Just remember, prophets have been predicting the Second Coming for over 2,000 years and life as we know it goes on. Berg predicted it several times during your lifetime, and life as we know it went on without his apocalyptic prophesies coming true. What some of us are really after is for people who choose your lifestyle to have a responsible accounting of their tithes. Maybe we'd like to see a retirement plan for aging and ailing FGs--just in case Armageddon doesn't happen between now and 2025 when many FGs will start dropping like flies from natural aging processes. On the outside chance the Second Coming doesn't happen by 2055 when SGs like you are wearing diapers because they can't remember how to find the bathroom, what would you expect The Family to do? Is Family leadership planning to provide a social safety net to pick up the slack once you are no longer a productive missionary member? If you were diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, how would you live out your life in the Family with this debilitating, chronic condition? Would there be a place for you in a Family Home if you couldn't meet the quotas? Since you believe The Family is the best, please answer this: Have you ever, even one time, covered up the truth about the identity of your missionary organization? Have you ever provisioned supplies or witnessed to someone and consciously avoided telling your audience that you were a member of The Family? Missionaries from every other Christian group on the planet have no hesitation about identifying their true affiliation. Why do Family members have to constantly dodge public perceptions created by the "lies" and "slander" of apostates? If there's absolutely no truth to claims made by apostates for well over 30 years now, doesn't it seem odd that so much mud has managed to stick to a Christian group whose stated mission is to spread the Gospel? Perhaps you really believe The Family's bad reputation is a case where "mistakes were made" by "a few overzealous, misguided members". I would hope that, if you've tried it all, that you actually the intellectual honesty to examine a wide array of evidence that David Berg, Karen Zerby and Peter Amsterdam have shown total disregard for the scriptural adminition, "Let it not be possible for men to say evil about your good"--?(reply to this comment)

From xolox Monday, February 14, 2005, 10:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Tried it all? How long did that take, a couple of years? Five maybe? It All, what an all encompassing statement. You've tried it all. I mean really try and wrap your brain around that one! Have you tried being a Catholic heroin junkie in a tu-tu? Well you must have cause you "tried it all". Or maybe you've tried bludgeoning a duck while chanting a bhuddist mantra as you swung from a chandelier dressed as a monkey. Please pardon me here, but I'm trying to determine how far the concept of "ALL" goes. To claim to have done it all is a thousand times more ridiculous than anything I could come up with! And such a closed minded thing to say too. Whatever the case, enjoy that bubble you love so much. I'll just poke around at things with my pin, 'cause I love that!(reply to this comment)

From JohnnieWalker Monday, February 14, 2005, 09:24 (Agree/Disagree?) SD76, you said: "I'm back here, living and lovin'! you know why? Because there is nothing better than the Family!" That's wonderful that you've found a place you're happy in. But keep in mind that when you say "there is nothing better than the Family", that it is entirely your opinion. There are millions (if not billions) of people in the world, including myself, who would never trade their lives for yours. Does this make the Family better? No. Just different. Perhaps you've realized by now that not many people are critizicing your choice to be in the Family. They are criticizing the lack of accountability by abusers for their actions. If you are happy in the Family, then by all means, defend your lifestyle. You have every right to. Just make sure that you don't find yourself defending people who have committed crimes and done things to children you would probably never even dream of doing or even do by mistake. "I hope you realize that most of us have been out there, and tried it all, and yet we came back and are still in!" I beg to differ. By far, most of the SGA Family members have experienced no other way of life than the one they were born into. I also think it's safe to say that most of the people who have left the Family and "tried it all" would never consider rejoining.(reply to this comment)

from conan Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 09:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh my god!! Someone please find these two women and teach them some basic English writing skills!!! Trying to understand what was even being argued was way to taxing. I'm surprised that Etoile felt that she was being "trash-talked" about in the original letter as it made very little sense with all the errors in punctuation and lost trains of thought. Oh and Etoile, your "rebuttal" letter said absolutely nothing useful in response to the first one. You clarified nothing and spoke only in ambiguous references to ambiguous topics. If you actually felt that you were singled out in the letter you posted and responded to, then you better make up your mind about several key issues including but not limited to; where do you stand regarding TF? or are you sitting comfortably on the fence? Those are two of the most obvious lapses in your rhetoric and thus need addressing first and foremost. Oh, and please try and use some English language rules in your next posting so that we can understand the points you are trying to make. (reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 10:13 (Agree/Disagree?) When you make these sorts of posts you should make sure your own spelling and punctuation is correct. "Oh my god!! Someone please find these two women and teach them some basic English writing skills!!! " "Trying to understand what was even being argued was way to taxing." It might carry a little more weight.(reply to this comment)

from SD76 Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 13:25 (Agree/Disagree?) I would like to address this particularly to Eloile Goyer as this is mostly an open reply to your letter. First of you say "how do you know anything about what me and my > brothers are thinking or doing?" Good point, why don't you clarify > it for us. Where do you stand? Do you stand behind those who tried > their best to raise you and the group who did and still does its > very best to help make the world a better place? Are you > indifferent to its fate? or Do you actively fight it either by > writing, speaking or anything else? Second you said "I was sending > the chain letter because it had to do with the group that we grew > up in and you deserve to hear all sides of the story the good and > the bad, which is what Ï sent." Well, let me ask you something. Are > you going to hang out with and publish what a drug addict says > about his life just because you want to "hear all sides of the > story"? There are plenty of us who although no longer part of the > Family respect it. If fact I would say that most of us who are no > longer serving the Lord in the way the Family does are thankful for > the time we spent in it. Why is it that most people would consider > publishing something about some neo nazi group or drug addicts or > any other such social rejects unacceptable even if it is under the > guise of "hearing all sides" yet these same people consider it > perfectly natural to bash a group which is seriously trying to make > the world a better place just because some of the people in did > some stupid things? Are you going to go after the entire Catholic > church just because of few child molesting priests? or are you > going to try to shut down the democratic party because Bill Clinton > was caught committing adultery and sexual harassment? Then you say "I made up my mind of what I thought of the family on my own through my observations and not by listening to what other people have to say." Ya, right. This reminds me of this guy I knew once who was really into style in the way he dressed. Whatever was new and "in" was what he wore. One day when watching an old move (from the 60s") he said that if he lived then he would never have dressed like that. Well, do you believe him? We say the things we hear. There are no new things under the sun. We voice the things we hear from others. This is how the human mind works. Everything you hear must either be accepted or rejected. Anything which is not rejected by deliberate decision we subconsciously accepted. (psychology 101) Then you end your letter on a dramatic note by saying ¨This is why I know that there is no way I am going to ever convince you of my opinion therefore I will never bring it up again.” Ouch, Looks like Lucy hit a nerve. Well you know what they say “if the shoe fits wear it” not to mention “it’s the hit dog that howls.” I am curious though when you say “I will never bring it up again” what did you mean. Will you cease from forwarding, listening to, speaking and thinking about anything related to the Family and move on with your life or are you simply saying Ah, this person fought back I’d better spread what I have to say on more listening ears. If the first is true I congratulate you. But if, as I suspect, the second is true you should clarify. I mean if you are going to go around saying or forwarding such ridiculous things you surely wouldn’t want your credibility to be at risk. Sam. (reply to this comment)

From Baxter Wednesday, February 16, 2005, 05:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Firstly, if the Democratic party or the Catholic Church or any other organisation did by policy permit or promote sexual harrassment or abuse (as is the case with the Catholic church), then what, how or why would the offended party not be justified in seeking retribution? Secondly, Do you genuinely think that your belief that you and your kind are sincerely working for the benefit of mankind in any way negates the possibility for criminality or moral offense? The road to hell is paved with good intentions, my friend (I refer to you as friend rhetorically). The Nazis, The Inquisition, the Neo-conservatives and Al Qaeda all believe/believed they are working for the benefit of mankind- sincerity counts for SHIT in relation to moral gravity in this or any other day and age! Finally, it's a pretty recognised phenomenon that the abused or exploited often defend their exploiters, especially in relation to the degree in which the former maintains social and political control. A child can be convinced against his will that his abuse is right and justified. A lot of us took a while to consciously identify what was wrong with that environment. For someone who makes reference to 'Psychology 101' (whatever relevence that reference had to the precursory statement), you really aught to cover your arcs.(reply to this comment)

From new things to think about Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 12:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Sam, I don't know how old you are but I want to take exception to your comment "There are no new things under the sun." You know, back in the days when the world was flat, people had this pessimistic view of the world. What do you think art and science are all about, anyway! New things, new ideas, new ways of looking at the world and understand experience. No, everything has not already been thought and invented. You are not a child, I presume? You think like one! Now, Mr. Black and White what's with the "Everything you hear must either be accepted or rejected"? Ever hear of shades of gray? How about learn, grow, expand your horizons, get educated? Along with the "no new things" notion you have put together a formula for mindlessness. It's as if you are saying, "My thoughts are merely repetitions of what I have been told and it is impossible for me (or anyone else) to come up with original ideas or thoughts. I am a mechanical being who is easily manipulated by others and unable to act independently." What a waste! (reply to this comment)

From ack Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 13:09 (Agree/Disagree?) With no new things under the sun, what the hell is he reading Zerby's new drivel for?(reply to this comment)

From tooalie Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 12:09 (Agree/Disagree?) In response to Sam's letter and responding to what other people have commented on. I do not think that the big issue here is whether or not I am for or against the family, the issue is that Lucy has no right to send a chain letter to various family homes including my dad’s home and talk about something that she never discussed with me. She NEVER talked about where we stood in regards to the Family…..that is my point!!! She is assuming that I hate the family on hearsay and it’s not right. She did not let me give her an explanation for my stance. I am mad because she had the audacity to send it to my dad and many of our friend’s parents. What?... does she need the world behind her? Is she scared of confrontation? I am very close to my dad and he knows what I think. He is still in the family although he has acknowledged that there were many wrong doings in the family before and that kids did get hurt mentally and physically. He had the balls to realize that many people were hurt and that perhaps there was a lot of wrong doings, not only that but he is doing something about it. He is raising his kids in the family but also giving them the choice in a lot of things and is exposing them to “the system” so if they leave or stay they will not have a hard time adjusting. He has over the last few years made a big effort to get closer to us and even help a bit financially with our school, which we all know he probably does not have much since he gives 15% to WS ect… This is more than many parents have done. The reason why I said I did not want to talk about the family was not because it hit a nerve, I laughed when you I read what you said because it was so far away from the truth. The reason is because she has a right to her opinion of the family as do I and was not going to try and change her mind. I did not want to push my views on her. You brought up the Catholic Church but failed to mention that the men at fault did go through the justice system. That changes everything! Actually I think that best way to get to know the full story of something and all aspects of it IS by asking questions! If you were to study the behavior of drug addicts you probably should go talk to them, hang out with as many as possible and get as close to them as you can so that you can make up your own mind and really see that it is to be a drug addict. Why is it bad to ask questions? Why is it bad to want to know all sides? Is your mind so weak that it would change for the “bad” if you were exposed? There are many good people in the family but I think that they are good not because of the family and do not need the family. They can be missionaries on their own and be fine; God is with you everywhere right? There are, however many things that have happened in the family that were not right and deprived children of a healthy life. If you want proof then look at all the ex-members that are as you said “not moving on” why is everyone so angry? Why did Ricky do what he did? Why are some taking drugs? Why is it that we cannot “move on”? The family says By Your Fruits You Shall Know Them, LOOK AT THE FRUITS!!! and tell me if they are proud parents Look at Ricky THE SON OF MARIA!! There is no way that she can blame him completely for what happened. A child that is loved and cared for properly does not want his mother dead. Many of us are happy and have built a life and are slowly adjusting to society but we have to work extra hard. We went from being trained to lead a missionary life to all of the sudden being alone and having to find out how to get a job when you have no experience, no formal education, and never had a permanent address. We were told what to do every minute of the day and now we are left with only ourselves to answer to. I think the biggest abuse was how the family molded our mindset to have no personal identity . I was taught that what I excelled in was the Lord not me and the faults I had were me and my NWO’s. What this did was me make me have no self esteem. There was no way that I could identify myself as I never picked my clothes, never chose the music I liked, what food I liked, what sport I liked, what films I enjoyed, ect……. These are things that contribute to a person knowing who they are and what they want. If a child does not have this then they will suffer mentally when all the choices are given to him at the same time. The family says that we have the choice to leave when we want but yet they trained us for their choice of life without thinking of how that would affect us if we left. Not to mention that they also do not help financially when we leave. So if someone wants to leave they have to say goodbye to everything they have ever known to go into a life that they have never been exposed to and provide for themselves with no support at all, let alone the guilt trip and fear that comes with “becoming a backslider”. The family really scares people about “the system” so that nobody will leave. How much of a choice do we really have? I admire anyone who had the balls to leave the comfort of everything they ever knew because they felt that they could get something better. Obviously everyone has had different experiences so I cannot speak for anyone except me, maybe you and Lucy lived in the best homes and lived the best life ever but my experience was different and I know I am not the only to say this There are so many things that I could point out that were taken away from my childhood but as some of you have pointed out I am not good with writing and I just do not have the space enough to write everything. I am not trying to prove something or hurt anyone but the question was asked about what I thought and I am giving it. I only hope that it is not misunderstood. I am not out to get the family, I do not sit at home plotting ways to destroy it or anything like that, I have a normal life, and although it will take some time to fully make peace with my past I am truly happy with my choice. I just get upset when I hear people trashing the ex-members that speak out and say that it is not right and demanding justice. Etoile (reply to this comment)

From Estie Thursday, February 10, 2005, 14:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Tienes toda la razon, mi quierida amiga, y Lucy es una perra del mal. Ademas esta bien fea! TQM! (reply to this comment)

From zoe1 Tuesday, February 15, 2005, 21:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey Estie Look I don't mind you taking sides, but you fucking insulting Lucy just cuz you’re jealous of her, is stupid... first of if any one here is a bitch is you. Who’s the one that went and had a bastard baby..?? I like Etoile lots (don’t get me wrong) never the les its no reason 4 you to go insulting Lucy. In first place Lucy didn’t insult her. Yeah I don’t agree with what she did, Etoile was just sending out a chain letter and I agree that she didn’t have to go about it the way she did; in any case that is not of your concern, that mater is to stay within the chain letter people and I don’t believe that you were in it! As far as I’m concern you should keep to your own affairs. M (reply to this comment)

From Estie Friday, January 20, 2006, 09:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Sera que te molesta porque tu tambien estas bien fea.......haha! Listen dear, if you think that insulting my son, by calling him a bastard baby will make you look more "righteous" in defending Lucy, then you must really be retarded. I said what I said of Lucy out of pure support to my friend, I realize that you want to defend your friend, but leave my son out of it. Besides, my son is beautiful, and as you have noticed my person preference for beauty, I am very happy with him & him with me. I have no idea who you are, you must be a coward since you didn't write your real name, but I think you must have some real big issues to actually go attacking my son. I have no problem with the fact that I am not married, but I do have a problem with your namecalling habit at this moment. So just hope I don't find out who you are........eseeee(reply to this comment)

From xolox Tuesday, February 15, 2005, 21:29 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh wait a minute homs, ju makin' it soun like there went the barrio ju no? How bout we chill now, whachu say ese?(reply to this comment)

From xolox Thursday, February 10, 2005, 16:01 (Agree/Disagree?) Canta: "Que se muaren los feos, que se mueran los feos, que se mueran los feos... yo soy muy feo, asi que me voy a morir" (reply to this comment)

From xolox Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 10:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Funny you should mention drug addicts. Isn't that what most of you were when you joined The Pedofamily international?(reply to this comment)

From Shaka Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 09:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Ricky never took drugs. Don't talk shit about things you know nothing about. Asshole.(reply to this comment)

From jas Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 09:29 (Agree/Disagree?) Dear Sam, It very surprising to see that you still have such high regards for The Family… as I do not share those feelings. My intent is not to convince you that your wrong but rather much like you and Lucy have done so carelessly, I wish to freely speak my mind and defend my own ideas.. I’m not here to defend Ricky’s actions, but I do believe, much like Etoile that if we are to understand and make judgment on it we should be well informed and be open to see all sides to the story… which the Family is not choosing to show. I too grew up in the Family, but unlike you I feel that there were many injustices that were committed. I, like many, many children of Family members, have a long recuperation period ahead of me that I can only hope will see an end soon. This whole situation has been devastating for me as I personally knew Ricky. It was horrifying to hear everything he went through and had to deal with as a child. I can only hope that this stands as a clear warning to all those parents in the Family who have wronged their children to make steps towards understanding the reasons why they have children who are hurting, and be there for them as good parents should. I know there are parents who are still in the Family who have cut ties to their “systemite” children, by putting The Family first. This is absurd and has made an already bad situation worse. It’s sad, as no child should have parents that live in some community cult that speaks Chinese as far as doctrines go. I don’t excuse his actions, but there is obviously a reason that he became so messed up. I don’t think I’m alone when I say that I can identify with a lot of the mental and physical abuse that children growing up in the Family experienced. There are hundreds of us who have left and are going through major difficulties adjusting and even coping with the reality outside the Family, and the experiences that still haunt us. This is not a bitter and resentful attitude, this is our reality. I just finished University and have done everything to get past my upbringing and fully move on with my life. But the human mind is not a white board that you can just erase or paint over. What I experienced in The Family has had a major negative impact on me, my family and many of my friends. I wish I could just change that, but it doesn’t work that way. So please, don’t insult me and my family, by comparing all of us to your gang of Family loyalist. Please don’t bash how we feel and understand that there are other people out there who grew up like you but perhaps differently. In my perspective The Family had done a lot of damage, and just being sorry about it has not made things better. It’s funny you compare Ricky to the “rejects of society” and the “Nazi movements” when actually no, he just a product of The Family. The “drug addict” as you called him, obviously had problems, and sadly his main problem was his mother and his upbringing. It’s true that we do make opinions on what we hear around us, and it’s obvious what you’ve been listening too much of. Perhaps before you place judgment on any situation you should firstly be well informed. J. PS Thank you Etoile for passing it on. (reply to this comment)

from clark Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 11:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Wow, Sounds to me like you better re-join and FAST!! What the hell are you doing out here in the god damn system, snowfake? Hurry up and get back into the fold where you feel such love and warmth. I've said it once and I'll say it again, No one on this site is saying these perversions are current in TF.(well, maybe some). There just needs to be some acknowledgment of what did happen. (reply to this comment)

from Bella Monday, February 07, 2005 - 14:10 (Agree/Disagree?) OHH MY GOD!! Talk about some serious run-on sentences! My Lord, I had to read most of that email a few times because I didn't know where to stop and start. There is no excuse for that! In any case, she is welcome to her own opinion, and that's just fine. I just wish she knew how to better express that opinion. It's too bad that she wants to call those who did experience abuse, liars. Again, there are those of us who were not sexually abused (although we were all exposed to way too much sex), but that does not mean it didn't happen. Why can't people get that!? Calling a victim a liar is so disrespectful! It really makes my blood boil! And another thing - again - just because we post on this site, does not mean we haven't "moved on." grrr .... (reply to this comment)

From Sunny the Evil Sorcerer Monday, February 07, 2005, 18:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Good point, Venti Cello (hehe, I know how you love those old nick names). All three of your points are very good. Me thinks we ought comprise a list of all the terrible things Familoids are calling us. (reply to this comment)

From xolox Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 10:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Familioids. I like that. Rhymes with a pain in the ass.(reply to this comment)

From Bella Wednesday, February 09, 2005, 10:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Girl, I haven't heard that nick-name in ages! Brought back memories of living in Shizuoka .... ;-)(reply to this comment)

From LTN Monday, February 07, 2005, 16:23 (Agree/Disagree?) I think most of us, and by us I mean you SGA's and some of the FGA's who have come to their senses, aren't looking for the destruction of "The Family" per se but the destruction of Family leadership's hold on the souls and minds of our loved ones through the deceitful lies and doctrines of the past and present. I was talking to a former Japanese media spokesperson for the Family who left some years ago. This person had to stand up before the cameras for weeks lying about TF. There is a strong mind set within TF to lie. Lying is totally justifiable if it will save you from some calamity--or so teaches TF. They twisted the scripture which reads, "...deceivers, yet true". They took it out of context and have used it to justify lying and hiding from themselves and the rest of the world. I think that the scripture quoted above means that those who call themselves servants and followers of Christ may at some point in their lives be labeled as 'decievers' yet they are being falsely accused. As the story goes concerning Christ Himself who was accused falsely of many things, yet He was innocent and "he opened not His mouth". TF, however as we know, is not innocent. In any case, many of us (myself included) slipped into a way of life where we made up a lot of stories to cover our lifestyle and to "protect" ourselves. Lying became a habit. We lied for leadership, we lied for gain, and we have ended up lying to ourselves about who we are. Our children have had to carry the burden of our lying lives upon their innocent shoulders. What sadness. It takes time to undo the lies and start to sort through and find the truth of our past. This young person in the letter above who is "out" of TF still has weeks, months and years ahead to get TF "out" of him/ her. If this person's parents can be persuaded to come out of a life of lies this will help to heal this young person as well. It's a two way battle for not only us FGA's to see the truth of our past 20-30 years of mistaken loyalties but it will take many of our children time to see it all too. You older SGA's who have been out for a few years have a larger perspective than siblings still in or recently out. And, especially if a parent or both are still in I would think it's even a larger challenge to break fully away and see it clearly. I believe that there's a lot of repairing to do and in the process The Family will be forever changed, perhaps even destroyed. --John(reply to this comment)

from j. Monday, February 07, 2005 - 13:42 (Agree/Disagree?) It's sad but true that most all of us have ex-friends or relatives that have let their, evidently shaky, beliefs come between us and them. It's the classic religious bigotry that most upsets me "you don't believe like I do so you're doomed to hell, nice knowing you". I may not agree with some (read: many) peoples points of view, but it doesn't preclude me from congenial interaction with them, or thinking it will upset my god/cause me to sin. Just how shallow and tenuous do your beliefs have to be, that if you dont spend 2 hours plus rehashing them daily they start to slip, you can't even defend them to a "doubter" much less interact with them. My little sister, still in the group, hasn't spoken to those of us that are now out in several years because, in her words, her "real family are those doing gods will" (incidentally she's living in that cult-within-a-cult that is Terence McLure (aka steven piper)'s followers.) (reply to this comment)