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Getting Real : Speak your peace

George Orwell, 1984, great book

from fryhead - Thursday, July 31, 2003
accessed 1521 times

Get an education, get smart, study, it's not because you left that you have to become some crack-smoking bum.

I've been out for more than ten years now, my parents left when I was eleven, both of them, plus six brothers and sisters, myself and our clothes. The reason why I'm writing this is not to bitch about how we were mistreated, or how I was beaten when I was small, or how my folks were 40 and 34 and didn't know a trade, had no money or profession. If people give their lives for you and work on your group's projects for years, then you could at least have the decency to guarantee that they'll have a bit of support to start when they hit the big, bad world.

I read that guy Anthony's comment on Dave's article, it seems he is a very educated man, very articulate and has done a lot of reading during his lifetime. The top leaders are in a different intelligence level than the rest of the flock. They've read all the important books, know the important political leaders and movements of the world, while to the flock is left the processed information, the second opinion of someone who is more intelligent and more educated to understand the info better than you.

Why is this? To me, the organization, cult, love group or whatever is in a paradox: They have to keep people stupid so they can have control, yet sheep don't have any initiative, they follow the shepherd. Well, the shepherd is dead, and has been for a while, and while his wife and staff are doing all they can to maintain the group, they do not and can't have the same presence as the real leader. People with no education, no real information, haven't been taught to think for themselves, and have to ask their superiors if this or that is the right thing to do.

There's no such thing as leaders. They're all eating, crapping, sweating and bleeding humans like everybody else, and if this movement was once inspired, or represented something new and innovative, that concept is long gone because they failed to renew themselves, to recycle and adapt. The same crime they accused their parents of.

Finally, we can get a good education, a high level education, if compared with the education most kids have in brasil and in most other 3rd world countries. Learn to think, read, study, and for sure you'll have something to be proud about yourself.

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from xhrisl
Friday, August 01, 2003 - 04:05

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
If 1984 is your thing, I also recommend the following books:
Aldous Huxley’s “A Brave New World.” Scary concepts on genetics, destiny and freedom.
Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” and “Anthem.” Individuality, pro-reason, pro-freedom, pro-capitalist.
George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” a modern fairy tale.
(reply to this comment)
From Shaka
Friday, March 05, 2004, 16:35

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
All very good books. Especially "1984", "A Brave New World", and "Animal Farm". One of the best things about them was the absence of the fairytale happy ending. Which made them far more realistic in my opinion. 1984 gave me goosebumps when I read it. I was 14 years old and in TF. I saw no difference between the "hero's" reality and mine. (reply to this comment
From porceleindoll
Saturday, August 02, 2003, 19:42


I just finished Animal Farm, it was quite fascinating. You have the pig leader who through cunning and wit takes slow control of the animals, and his pig helpers who are used to spread his propoganda and support him, he has his loyal bodyguard dogs, vicious creatures who scare the other animals into obedience.

Then there's the stupid dumb sheep who just do whatever they're told without thinking about it, used by the pigs to support new changes, moves and direction.

The hard-working horse who is good and sincere and dedicated to just working hard to succeed at whatever task he's given. And the ever-pessimisstic donkey who sees all these changes with no excitement and assesses the situation that nothing has changed for him, he is still working hard whether the farmer or the pig is in charge.

You see the original simple rules and goals of the farm slowly change over the years, and the original animals don't even realise how they've changed, their memory can't reach that far back, and while they realise that somehow things are not right, when they go back to the origins, something has been altered and they think they've remembered it wrong. And there's the newly born animals who don't know what it was like with the farmer, but it doesn't seem all that great with the pigs in charge, still a lot of hard work and cold nights, little food, while the pigs live in luxury in the farm-house. But since they have no memories at all of the past, they assume that it must be better than when the farmer was in charge.

And finally the pigs make an alliance with the men, and the stupid farm animals who are looking into the house suddenly realise that you can no longer tell the difference between a pig and a man and a man and a pig.

Strange how many parallels there were in that little book to the Family.(reply to this comment

From Anthony
Saturday, August 02, 2003, 20:04

LOL, ironic that one of our teen sheps had us read Animal Farm, about 12 years ago. That was pretty cool of him.(reply to this comment
From Alf
Friday, August 01, 2003, 08:06

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Actually I found Ayn Rand's writings overbloated and particularly clumsy in their advocacy of a capitalist hegemony.

The philosophy behind her stories is so thinly disguised one wonders why she did'nt just come out and write a political book instead of boring us with her turgid, preachy and two-dimensional novels.

I'd invest more time in reading Orwell, every one of his books are well worth a read.(reply to this comment

From Sonderval
Wednesday, January 07, 2004, 04:54


Ack, I find myself agreeing with something you've said, Ayn Rand blows as an author but Orwell rules and has more political savvy anyways.

But yeah, Aldous Huxley's Brave New World is also fantastic, read people, read lots of things.

On the topic of books I'd also recommend reading Foucalt's Pendulum by Umberto Eco, it's not the easiest read perhaps but he's a brilliant author and his views on alternative religions I found extremely insightful.(reply to this comment

From Sir Rantalot
Wednesday, January 07, 2004, 06:38


Wasn't the Movie "A Beautiful Mind" a true story?

Didn't the guy get a Nobel prize for proving that free-market economics a la Adam Smith and advocated by Ayn Rand was flawed. That is, the best for society is not reached when everyone does what is best for themselves, but when everyone does what is best for themselves and society.

Objectivism acts like this proof never happened.

I personally find Ayn's writings fit for self-absorbed teenagers, though it is a good starting point once you leave the family, as her philosophy is totally opposed to family teachings.(reply to this comment

From Sonderval
Wednesday, January 07, 2004, 07:01


What you're talking about there is game theory, and that is absolutely correct, although simply because I have to I'll say that most of the rest of the film was artistic license, he was schizophrenic but nothing like depicted, he left his wife (who was Salvadoran incidentally, not white) for his gay lover and as for the awards ceremony, here's a description I robbed from another "The ceremony was somewhat late in starting, and lasted no more than a minute or two. Someone raised his glass in a toast but no complimentary speeches were made. The guest of honor said nothing. As the last glass was drained, an embarrassing silence reigned." But all of that is completely irrelevant to the point you made which is correct, the film just bugged me a little as I find Nash fascinating and it's hard to see him so unbelievably misrepresented.

As far as the impact of game theory on global economics and politics are concerned the problem become's implementation, to have a system based on game theory you'd need an impartial advocate system which determined what is best for the group, and impartiality is a myth, anyone who believes otherwise is delusional, it has been used in negotiations to resolve disputes very successfully but while humans are still running things it can never be implemented on a wider scale.

What a free market does offer is a level playing field, so while it may not be the perfect system it's better than any of the currently available alternatives.

As far as Ayn Rand and her books are concerned I more or less agree with you, little of any real value in em.(reply to this comment

From Sir Rantalot
Wednesday, January 07, 2004, 09:10


Kewl, interesting info!

I agree with you there, in theory it's all sound, but the implementation in real life is the problem. It's a while that I'm pondering an alternative to an economy/social structure based on capital & free market, as this seems to be where a lot of the world's imbalacnce comes from. While it's easy to critize the current state of affairs, the real challenge comes when looking for an alternative to capitalism without limiting ones personal freedom, which I hope will be found soon. Got any ideas?

And I detest rationalism, I'll take constructive chaoism any day.

All hail discordia!! :)

(reply to this comment

From Sonderval
Wednesday, January 07, 2004, 09:34


I'm afraid my views on this aren't particularly people friendly, what it comes down to is that in an international free market economy (which we don't have yet but we're getting closer) overall those with ability and drive flourish while those without perish, while this may seem harsh (particularly if you're not currently flourishing) but it's one of the only ways to reward effort and ability.

And the next bit is where most people start getting upset with me, do we really want those without ability or drive to hang around and breed? Talk to any horse breeder and he'll tell you what happens to the quality of your herd when you allow that to happen.

If they won't/can't work let em starve is my answer I'm afraid, and if you want to be humane about it then sterilize them first so they don't breed and have starving children.

So the only limitations I'd put on a free market economy are environmental ones, I'd have governments responsible for policing human rights and environmental issues, paid for with a flat rate tax worldwide so industry is on a level playing field, I'd see this come about through a strengthening of the UN (or some such) and a gradual scaling down of armed forces for each member state till they were eventually left with only a police force and international security handled by a UN type body.

We'd of course require local law to be gradually replaced by international law, also to ensure a level playing field, but implemented by local agencies who are more familiar with the local culture and populace.

It goes on, could keep going and describe my alternate political state but in reality it's absolutely pointless, governments consist of people who desire power, so trying to get a concensus to start something like what I've suggested (or even a more loser friendly version) is simply never going to happen, those with power will do everything they can to keep it, and even if a system such as I've suggested ever were implemented it would be designed by the same people who are in power now and therefore designed in such a way as to leave it open to abuse.

The amount of charismatic, humanitarian, politically and socially aware intelligent people who have managed to get enough power to affect any kind of real change I can think of at the moment are limited to Ghandi, and once he'd managed to get the British out of India the people who replaced him instantly divided up the country between them and created a corrupt governmental system, and Ghandi was shot for trying to interfere, this is what happens to humanitarians when they actually try to change things to any significant extent.(reply to this comment

from Joe H
Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 23:14

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Hi fryhead, I like what I think you're trying to say here, but it's kind of all over the place. Maybe you should take your own advice of "Finally, we can get a good education" and sign up for a Composition class. In the meantime, let me give you some tips. It's nice to start with your thesis, explain your thesis, and then reiterate your thesis. This method has been referred to in folk wisdom as "Tell em what you're gonna tell'em, tell'em, then tell'em what you told'em" Hope this helps.

(Let's see how you like rude comments on your articles)
(reply to this comment)

From TskTsk
Friday, August 01, 2003, 00:20

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(

Joe, I'm going to tell you that you're too finicky and nitpicky.

Joe, you're too finicky and nitpicky.

Joe, what I just told you is that you're too finicky and nitpicky. (LOL)(reply to this comment

From Joe H
Friday, August 01, 2003, 17:28

LOL, that was cool. (reply to this comment

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