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from elisha717 Monday, May 05, 2008 - 07:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Just so you know, college students are not allowed to use Wikepedia as a reference source. It is a good place to get an Idea, but in the academic world if you use Wikepedia as your reference source, they will not take you seriously. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Monday, May 05, 2008, 14:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Wikipedia is as credible a source as most, although distinctly too egalitarian for much of academia to accept.(reply to this comment)

From elisha717 Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 07:19 (Agree/Disagree?) I wasn't saying you can't use it, I was saying from a reference point of professionalism, always make sure you have another source to back up your argument, especially when you are trying to get other people to listen. This is something I just learned this semester in college, so maybe I am just trying to show off (Lol!!). But actually I just wanted you to know that bit of info, in case it helps! (reply to this comment)

From rainy Monday, May 05, 2008, 13:38 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh, I'm not a student. I just read it as a starting point. Purely for joy.(reply to this comment)

From elisha717 Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 07:45 (Agree/Disagree?) I figured, sorry if I sounded like I was criticizing you, I really wasn't! I just have noticed you like to write, and so I thought you might like that bit of info. Believe me, when I was writing one of my papers, and I had to explain what cognitive dissonance was, I thought Wikepedia explained it a lot better than any other source I could quickly pull up at the time. I actually thought you were a student after I read your article on Science. (You should be one!! I haven't taken Science yet, and so I am hoping that it'll be an easy subject for me to grasp).(reply to this comment)

From rainy Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 13:50 (Agree/Disagree?) It's alright even if you were. I figured it was a little tit-for-tat over my 'poll' comment. I don't mind. I *used* to like to write when I was a teenager, now I just like to communicate and exchange ideas. The difference I guess is that I don't write seriously or with any great care now. I just spill everything onto my keyboard any old way. Wikipedia: I like it because I don't know where to start reading, especially with science stuff. But you start reading one thing in Wiki, click on a word that interests you, it takes you to something else, etc. The references are at the bottom so you can check the validity, and there are usually warnings if it's questionable. It's not usually scientific stuff that gets messed with anyway. Although that's not a bad idea for fanatical creationists. They should sneakily insert "created" every time it says "evolved" or something.(reply to this comment)

From sar Tuesday, May 06, 2008, 09:07 (Agree/Disagree?) You're kinda funny. (reply to this comment)

from der Teufel Friday, April 04, 2008 - 00:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Evolution is a directly observable phenomenon. There is no debate among scientists as to whether or not evolution occurs, any more than there is debate about the Earth orbiting the Sun. Gene pools change - evolution happens. This is obviously a rather contrived example, but it serves to demonstrate some of the basic principles. “If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion.” Statistics have shown that the more educated an individual, the less likely they are to be religious or believe in a god. Want examples? Look back in history. Even in our contemporary world, the most successful people are non-believers. A lack of belief in religion makes way for clearer, more intelligent and more successful thinking. Evolution is a fact; it is not open for debate. (reply to this comment)

from exfamily Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 06:07 (Agree/Disagree?) My foray into science: I too benefited from being having a good grounding in the first two of the three Rs - Reading and wRiting. But I knew next to nothing about science and didn't care less. Nothing about chemistry or biology or physics. All I "knew" was that God created the world in 6 days, that there were "7,000 Years of World History", that evolution was a lie of The Devil who created it in accordance with the verse "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie", that scientists operated and came to conclusions as shown in Family Fun, that evolution was what The Big Lie ML said it was (circular reasoning to find out the ages of the fossils and strata, etc), and that Jesus (or at least the endtime) was coming before I'd turn 20. The idea of imminent destruction made me not care about anything of longterm value, such as education or taking care of my body, as I'd die before it could be of any real benefit to me (education) or harm/detriment (taking care of myself). I'd sometimes heard about general relativity and its strange implications, but was never able to understand them. However, I'd always get quite excited when I'd watch a documentary that mentioned it. This was when I was out of TF; I didn't have access to these things when I was still in. Whilst on my later "spiritual journey" to find the ultimate truth, I encountered skepticism in the form of Carl Sagan. We had all always been taught that doubt and skepticism were of the Devil. Doubt was bad. We should just accept what we are told, because it's "Jesus speaking". And you can't question if it's really Jesus speaking, because that's the Devil planting doubts in your mind, LHY! But anyway the seed was planted, and my mind began demanding real proof even though I wanted to believe the New Age fairytales. This led me to psychology, then the hard sciences and atheism. It was probably my desire to find the truth coupled with the fact that science is about as close as you can get to the truth that made me a firm "believer" in science, as everything must be tried and tested and rejected if it doesn't conform to the facts, whilst religion or other spiritual beliefs do not feel the need to be bogged down by such mundane things as facts, seeing that they are generally untestable. Anyway, through much book buying and reading, I taught myself physics (finally able to understand relativity, yay!), chemistry, biology, maths, natural history, and a bit of other sciences. I now find the idea of creationism absolutely hilarious (and infuriating) not only because there is no evidence supporting this belief, but also because it was created by ancient tribesmen/herdsmen who had next to no knowledge of the natural world, and yet creationists insist on retaining their antiquated and obsolete beliefs and try to pass them off as science! I had always thought of evolution as kind of stupid, even after I stopped believing in God/fell in love with science, because of what I had been told it was. Great was my surprise then when I found out that evolution was not about "shaking lego in a jar for a million years and a car pops out"; that there was no conspiracy amongst scientists to propagate a lie because they didn't want to believe in God; that evolution was not an anti-God lie (since God and evolution can co-exist), but the best explanation of the facts as they are. I never cared for science much while I believed that God magically created everything a few thousand years ago; but once that was out of the picture, the earth and the universe and all living things suddenly had such a vast and rich history, and suddenly there were real mysteries waiting so be solved, and there was no "God dunnit" explanation to shut the curious mind down. I still have lots to learn to get a well-rounded education, but I read educational books every day to and from work, a bit in the evening, and on weekends. I now know enough to be able to debate most creationists, and do so often enough. Hopefully I'll get into uni this year to study Genetics, as I'm very excited about the possibilities of genetic engineering. (reply to this comment)

From rainy Thursday, April 03, 2008, 13:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Well said! I think the biggest impact this video had on me was the absolute absurdity of what he was saying, coupled with anger at what he was putting into those poor children's heads. Even more than anything else, just hearing that rubbish again after so long had a real strong shock effect, remembering that I too was taught all that as fact. Once again, I'm so happy with my son's life. He's not yet six, but he picked out a huge illustrated encyclopaedia of dinosaurs, and we've been reading it together, educating both of us at once. His questions are often what prompt me to find this sort of thing out as for some reason I hardly know what questions to ask. I really like all your points above, esp: "I had always thought of evolution as kind of stupid, even after I stopped believing in God/fell in love with science, because of what I had been told it was. Great was my surprise then when I found out that evolution was not about "shaking lego in a jar for a million years and a car pops out"; that there was no conspiracy amongst scientists to propagate a lie because they didn't want to believe in God; that evolution was not an anti-God lie (since God and evolution can co-exist), but the best explanation of the facts as they are." I'm finding my wonder at nature (formerly my wonder at creation) renewed and stronger than ever. At first there was a sense of loss, looking at the ocean and sunset but all disjointed because the "God-awe" couldn't accompany it without being hypocritical. But now it's being replaced by "nature-awe" of Jules Verne proportions. It's great! I think the fresh eyes of my little boy are playing a big part in that too.(reply to this comment)

from rainy Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 01:10 (Agree/Disagree?) Okaaay then... hey am I allowed to comment on my own article? I was just thinking about the twisty way this Christian guide and the Family brainwash you under the guise of getting you to think for yourself and question everything. It's quite the headfuck for a little kid. (reply to this comment)

From madly Thursday, April 03, 2008, 01:12 (Agree/Disagree?) Sorry, rainy. I just posted an article for Kelly and I to have it out. I also asked admin to move all of our comments over, as well.(reply to this comment)

From rainy Thursday, April 03, 2008, 01:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Oh, I didn't mean it that way. I just meant it was a little weird for me to be commenting on my own article, I should have added that thought into the body. You two chicks are welcome to have a catfight here. I'm making popcorn and getting out a bottle of red. Let the games begin!(reply to this comment)

From madly Thursday, April 03, 2008, 01:21 (Agree/Disagree?) heh... no joke; wtf?(reply to this comment)

From rainy Thursday, April 03, 2008, 01:21 (Agree/Disagree?) ;)(reply to this comment)

from cheeks Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 18:32 (Agree/Disagree?) I am doing fairly well I think. I tend to watch a lot of programs on Discovery and History channel. I make my kids sit through them too and have since they were fairly small so they enjoy it now. (reply to this comment)

from madly Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 17:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Sad to see those kids, but I can remember all too well, living like one of them. I remember having a very difficult time swallowing the fact that this entire world, and everything in it, was made in 6 days. Even as a child, the entire idea of creation just didn’t add up. Just like now, I then, had so many unanswered questions and I wanted the facts, not fictional fairytales. When I was able to finally leave TF, and attend college, I was able to study the evolutionary theory in depth. I remember laughing at what I had been taught growing up. The concept of evolution made sense to me. Unlike the Bible’s fairytale version of creation, evolution added up and all my questions were finally answered; thus, allowing me to fully comprehend and grasp the theory. What I love about math and science is the fact that they can be proven. You can take any fact and deduct it back to its basic foundation, and yet, it consistently remains solid, sound and true. Science is never based on faith and miracles. There is a side of me that wants to see the proof and wants to simplify everything down to its basic principle. I feel if the basis isn’t solid then the outcome can never be trusted. You can not build on dreams, nor find truth in something that was never real to begin with. My mind is somewhat twisted, and I will admit that I have ideas that are really out there, but I will never allow myself to believe in them until they have been scientifically proven. I guess I have learned to separate fact from fiction. I leave my dreams where they were meant to be and try to live life in the real world. I may question crazy theories, but I wait for the facts before I allow for them to become my reality. Living in TF was like living in a fairytale where anyone could make up anything and quote it, even teach it, as fact. We were forced to learn fanatical doctrines and theories as if they had some scientifically sound basis. We were never allowed to question their validity. We had to take everything by faith and trust everyone, except the doubt in our own hearts and minds, leaving our many unanswered questions as something to feel guilty about. What about faith in ourselves? What about when something seemed wrong, unfounded or simply didn’t make sense or add up? Shouldn’t we have been allowed to question, to have evidence presented, enabling us to have faith in ourselves, our minds and our own instincts. Yes, I am behind, but at least I no longer live in a fairytale with angels, devils and sex craved maniacs living under my bed. Life adds up now and science is something that can be trusted. It does not require faith and can be proven true. I never thought life could be as simple as asking a question and being allowed to get a straightforward, fact based, solid and sound answer. Truth is a crazy thing to have, when you were forced to live in a world full of lies for so long. Lucky for us it looks like Alice in wonderland really did just fall down a hole and bash her head, letting the cat with the big ass grin out of the bag, and now we know that fairytales belong in story books with happy endings. Life is never that simple, nor should it be. Here’s to science and a mind given to discern the difference between fact and fiction! (reply to this comment)

From ---------- Wednesday, April 02, 2008, 18:32