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Getting Real : Faith No More

At the risk of being repetitive...

from Blondie_B78 - Sunday, October 19, 2003
accessed 1741 times

Thank you all for your replies to my article, "I Need Answers" in "Faith No More". Your candor is appreciated and valued. I posted the following on the exfamilyyouth board last week. If there is any repetition please forgive me. I've simply copy/pasted my questions and the comment I have received so far from Porceleindoll. Please feel free to add your thoughts....

(For those who prefer to email. - blondie_b78@yahoo.com.au)

From Blondie_B78 (posted on exfamilyyouth 17/10/03)

Hi all!

I was born/raised in TF but have been FM for the past few years. Several things have made me begin to seriously re-evaluate my life though and the direction I'm heading. In all fairness, I don't believe you can make an educated decision by only listening to "one side" (which I've pretty much spent my life doing) so I've spent my spare time over the past couple weeks checking out the MovingOn site. While I don't necessarily agree with all opinions (but that would apply to any group of people) I feel that I have a lot in common with other ex-member SG's as growing up I saw, experienced, and wondered about the same things.

As a teen I made a decision to stay in TF because I sincerely wanted to help "make the world a better place". I believe the term used to describe me would have been "onfire". :-p I believed that the abuses or "mistakes" of the past were due to "unwise, immature family individuals misinterpreting the Word..etc." I vaguely remembered the Dito book and other purged literature but haven't given it much thought in recent years. There has always been so much to read. It's hard to keep up at times let alone remember everything you have read. Reading Ricky's post [Life With Grandpa - the Mene Story] was enlightening and saddening at the same time. I had heard rumors about stuff that went on in "Grandpa's" house but had thought them to be just that - rumors - the kind that you "rebuke" and try not to think about. Could any of you answer the following questions for me?

- Did Davida (I have no idea what her name is now) leave TF for similar reasons or have similar stories to tell upon leaving? I tend to think that the more people who can corroborate a story the better.

- Did any of you grow up in WS or around leadership? Did you experience abuse - physical or otherwise?

- When abuse was reported was anything done about it? Was it condemned and stopped?

- Does anybody know why "Mama & Peter" continue to live in seclusion? (No speculation if poss. I can speculate too). :-) Anyone who has lived in WS able to offer any insights?

I'm just so confused at the moment. My mom suggested that I speak to someone who lives close to leadership and ask him some of my questions. I spent about an hour talking to him. I figured, "What have I got to lose? Might as well give it a shot...Ē He was nice but gave me those stock answers that might as well have been in print. In closing he asked that I refrain from mentioning what we had spoken about to his son. I was crying when I told him that I wouldn't think of it. I'm trying to sort my own life out at the moment. I have no intention of trying to persuade people of anything I'm not convinced of myself - that works both ways. The look on his face reminded me of myself at times - kind of a mix of pity and fear. The look I get on my face when politely asking a "diseased" friend not to come near my kids until they are better.

Any thoughts? Sorry this is so long. Won't ramble as much next time (yeah right!? lol). :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply From Porceleindoll (posted on exfamilyyouth 20/10/03)

Perhaps you could put these questions out on the movingon site and the exfamily.org site, you may get responses from both young people and adults who lived and worked near leadership.

In the mid to later 90s sexual abuse of minors was taken a bit more seriously, though I know of several cases, one of which involved a top leader, that the people involved were not excommed for it, simply warned and given a few days on word and reading, I remember being quite infuriated about hearing of one of my students being 'felt-out' in the middle of the night, and yet being warned to not get SR about it happening, that the guy was a good brother who just made a mistake. I remember at 17 and 18 being involved in a few of those infamous dance videos made for Berg, one of those made after the date Solomon told the judge in Britain that they had stopped making those. My sister as well as several cousins and sister-in-law were all abused by adult men in the family, some in positions of leadership, and nothing was done to them that I am aware of for those abuses.

I am curious as to why the person you talked to who was close to leadership asked you not to tell his son any of the stuff you talked about? That makes me wonder what he is trying to hide from his kid? I am sure you would want to respect his request, but at the same time, does it not strike you as odd that he would ask you not to talk to his son about it? What would be the motivation, is his son too young to understand some deeper issues, or is his son still in the group and his father is afraid he may leave or become confused over these things?

I wish I had more answers for you, but I do know that more than just Mene were sexually abused at Berg's house, there were several young teen girls living there at the time, some of whom I've met and I know there was stuff going on. I also know of one girl who was impregnated at the age of 15 by a leader, but this was not forced sex, rather mutual sex.

Regards, porceleindoll

Reader's comments on this article

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from Banshee
Monday, October 27, 2003 - 06:49

(Agree/Disagree?)

I don't know if this is what you want, or if it will help, but I have proof that TF lied about some of their recent "revelations" and visions (particularly all these demons and whatnot...) U can email me if you're interested, and if it will help answer some questions. It sure opened my eyes.

Peace
(reply to this comment)

from Anthony
Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 22:50

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Itís ironic, or at least interesting, that our abusers in the cult are referred to as ďimmature Family individuals misinterpreting the Word.Ē When in fact, these were the dedicated, sold-out, on-fire (many with herpes) disciples following the word in all its essence and manifestations resulting in our many festering.


The real individuals misinterpreting the Word and/or deliberately disobeying it were those who chose not to harm our siblings and us. They were in the cult for whatever reason(s), and that alone is a demonstration of their lack of reason and pure stupidity; yet, they were still decent enough not to have trashed their humanity for the sake of Jesus, Berg and Co. Admittedly, they were few, and not a very strong presence, but they did provide a refuge from the monsters, if only an ephemeral one.
(reply to this comment)

from Joe H
Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 14:51

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
It blows my mind that you cult members can obsess over whether or not the "allegations" are true, while completely ignoring the stuff that's printed in the Mo letters in black and white. Have you read the Mene series? Or had it read to you while someone beat you with a 2x4? The stuff they'd admit to is just as perverse and damning, perhaps more so, because thousands of kids experienced the same kind of "exorcisms" as a result. Maybe you should start reading the word critically for a change, it's got all the answers.
(reply to this comment)
From Blondie_B78
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 00:33

(Agree/Disagree?)
Joe, sorry if you feel that I'm "obsessing over whether or not the allegations or true". I have never doubted that many of our generation experienced abuse of some kind or other. I experienced it myself. However, I never realized that the abuse extended (or should I say "filtered down from") to Zerby and Bergs household. I probably only read "The Last State" once and only vaguely remember it. I'm glad that a lot of literature was purged but it does make it difficult at times when you only have your memory (of what you have read NOT what you have experienced)to go on. Reading excerpts of purged literature on this and other sites has been helpful though. It has been a good 12 years or more since the "purges" and my memory is, admittedly, a bit hazy.

The reason I felt the need to ask these questions was because, inspite of what I experienced, I believed what WS said about the abuse being due to misinterpretations of "the Word". I have tried to follow what I have been taught to the best of my ability. I have always been a sincere believer. As it turns out, I may have also been a gullible idiot.

To me personally, the dishonesty (on the part of leadership) is of bigger significance than abuses that occurred. I'm not saying that those abuses don't matter.They do. The hurt experienced by many of our generation is real - it has not been given more than a token acknowledgment at best. What I'm trying to say is - there are a lot of criminals in the world but not many claim to be "good people" let alone "God's annointed. (reply to this comment
From Joe H
Monday, October 27, 2003, 12:41

(Agree/Disagree?)
Well then, it sounds like you have your answer. What the hell are you waiting for? Get out of the cult already!(reply to this comment
From frmrjoyish
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 10:25

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

TF's claim of a few weak people "missinterpreting" the word is BS!! There could be no missinterpretation when Berg's own writings depicted graphic adult child sex with pornography included, vivid descriptions of group sexual acts that included his own daughter, Faithy, as well as detailed accounts of the fondling and molestation of his own younger children, written as a guide for cult childrearing none the less. There are so many more examples that it would take several books to list them all!!!

While you may or not remember these things, for those of us unlucky enough to grow up right smack in the middle of all this, it was just a fact of daily life for us. Stop and think for a minute, why would they have to destroy so much of the sacred "word of God" if there was nothing incriminating in it?? That alone should speak for itself, but still you have the testimony of thousands of ex members as well as the testimony of his own children who lived through it.

While I admire you for seeking answers and being willing to question, please understand the frustration we go through as the children who lived through it, yet are called liars and apostates by the very same people who abused us. There are thousands of us who have made it very clear that we were infact abused and it did indeed happen, there are documented accounts from Bergs own writings of horrific sexual and physical abuse of the children closest to him, yet people still question and have doubts as to the validity of these claims. I don't know what else to do to make people like you wake up and "smell the coffee"!! Please, you seem like a smart girl, go with your head and with logical reasoning and for a moment try to put out the emotional head trips TF puts you through and you will see the truth!!(reply to this comment

From Blondie_B78
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 15:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Thanx Joyish. I totally understand why there are many x-members (FG & SG) who are so upset and outraged. When you have suffered nothing hurts worse than being called a liar. Over the past year there have been a good number of pubs coming out about dealing with & handling the "lies and exaggerations" being told by x-members. You would be hard pressed to find someone in TF who doesnít have a loved one or relative who has left so it is definitely an issue. Itís easy to call someone you donít know a liar but not someone you know, love and trust. Basically, TF is being advised to:

. avoid sites like these :-p

. that while x-members do have some legitimate complaints, these have been addressed and apologized for

. for parents not to "give in" to guilt and condemnation over raising kids in TF (as long as they werenít the abusers themselves).

. that assorted demons plague and influence "apostates" to embellish and exaggerate their negative experiences and at times outright lie.

. the end goal is to draw people away from Gods service thus titles like, "None of these things move me" & "Stay on the wall".

I am 24 so while I did not see as much abuse etc. as many of you have, I did experience it. I know writing a detailed account of what happened to me might validate my position in the eyes of some people here but, for personal reasons, I choose not to. I still have family in the group. I want to gather as much info as I can for my own benefit but also for my parents. Iím not asking these questions because I doubt the stories posted on this site but because I want to understand and need as much information as possible.

Has anyone put together a compilation of Bergs writings about child sex, incest etc ? (reply to this comment

From frmrjoyish
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 18:54

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I know for a fact that several of the higher up leaders in The Phillipines in the 80's knew of one certain situation and let it go on for a long time. I have recieved neither an aknowledgement nor an apology from anyone. So, I beg to differ on the statement that all issues have been addressed and apologized for!!!

And when you hear a leader of a large organization comprised mostly of children state "None of these things move me" with regards to claims of child abuse in her organization, doesn't it make you wonder???? As well as the statement that as long as it wasn't the parents themselves that were doing the abusing they should feel no guilt or condemnation at all when their children are abused?? Please, your answers are right in front of your face!!!(reply to this comment

From Blondie_B78
Friday, October 24, 2003, 05:40

(Agree/Disagree?)

I totally agree with you. Let me stress that the statements I mentioned were supposed to reflect WS sentiment - not my own. (reply to this comment

From Jules
Thursday, October 23, 2003, 17:58

(Agree/Disagree?)
There is a brief compilation of some of Berg's writings regarding incest on this site. http://www.movingon.org/test/documents/incest.pdf(reply to this comment
from sarafina
Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 14:07

(Agree/Disagree?)
I have someone who you can ask, she lived w/ David, Peter & Maria for yrs and grew up w/ Ricky but shes left also, all for very similar reasons. She doesn't go on this site though and I can't post her name. Send me and email and I'll forward it to her.
(reply to this comment)
From sarafina
Wednesday, October 22, 2003, 14:12

(Agree/Disagree?)
PS. She was also there when all that hapened to Mene, she saw it all and Mene is still a friend of hers but is still pretty messed up, the story is actually pretty disgusting and sad but all true.(reply to this comment

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