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Getting On : Faith

4 the hell of it!

from Gypsy - Thursday, April 13, 2006
accessed 1229 times

The other day I read this in the newspaper!

"Jesus didn't walk on water...He walked on ice!!!

Lol! What do you think?!? I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the distorted stories they fixed up to fit their purposes...if ever it existed?!?

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from Bennet
Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 18:36

(Agree/Disagree?)

My name's bennet, and I aint innit.
(reply to this comment)

from solemn
Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:22

(Agree/Disagree?)

Sea ice occupies about 7% of the area of the world ocean, and is of enormous importance climatically because it reflects most of the solar radiation that falls on it, affecting the average albedo of the earth, and also because it interposes a solid layer between the ocean and the atmosphere which reduces the free transfer of heat and moisture between the two. Observational evidence at the moment tells us that the sea ice in the Arctic (although not in the Antarctic) is retreating and thinning, and computer models predict that by the 2080s the ice cover will completely disappear in summer, so it is important for us to understand the mechanisms by which sea ice forms and decays.
We have to account for the fact that ice floats on water at all, since ice is one of very few substances where the solid is less dense than its molten form. This is because the structure of normal ice, called ice I, is an open hexagonal structure. Each oxygen atom is at the centre of a tetrahedron with four other O atoms at the apices. The O atoms are concentrated close to a series of parallel planes that are known as the basal planes. The principal axis, or c-axis, of the crystal unit cell lies perpendicular to the basal plane. The whole structure looks much like a beehive, composed of layers of slightly crumpled hexagons. The net of O atoms is held together by hydrogen bonds. The H atoms lie along these bonds. It is the length of the hydrogen bond that creates the open structure of ice; when ice melts, some of the bonds are broken, causing a disordered structure with a higher density. But even in liquid water some short-range order remains, with a few water molecules retaining the crystal-like bonded structure until this is destroyed by thermal motion; this causes a curious density behavior in fresh water, where there is a maximum density at 4C.

Consider a fresh water body being cooled from above, for instance a lake at the end of summer experiencing subzero air temperatures. As the water cools the density increases so the surface water sinks, to be replaced by warmer water from below, which is in its turn cooled. This creates a pattern of convection through which the whole water body gradually cools. When the temperature reaches 4C, the lake reaches its maximum density. Further cooling results in the colder water becoming less dense and staying at the surface. This thin cold layer can then be rapidly cooled down to the freezing point, and ice can form on the surface even though the temperature of the underlying water may still be close to 4C. Thus a lake can experience ice formation while considerable heat still remains in the deeper parts.

This does not apply to sea water. The addition of salt to the water lowers the temperature of maximum density, and once the salinity exceeds 24.7 parts per thousand (most Arctic surface water is 30-35), the temperature of maximum density disappears. Cooling of the ocean surface by a cold atmosphere will therefore always make the surface water more dense and will continue to cause convection right down to the freezing point - which itself is depressed by the addition of salt to about -1.8C for typical sea water. It may seem, then, that the whole water column in an ocean has to be cooled to the freezing point before freezing can begin at the surface, but in fact the Arctic Ocean is composed of layers of water with different properties, and at the base of the surface layer there is a big jump in density (known as a pycnocline), so convection only involves the surface layer down to that level (about 100-150 metres). Even so, it takes some time to cool a heated summer water mass down to the freezing point, and so new sea ice forms on a sea surface later in the autumn than does lake ice in similar climatic conditions.
In quiet conditions the first sea ice to form on the surface is a skim of separate crystals which initially are in the form of tiny discs, floating flat on the surface and of diameter less than 2-3 mm. Each disc has its c-axis vertical and grows outwards laterally. At a certain point such a disc shape becomes unstable, and the growing isolated crystals take on a hexagonal, stellar form, with long fragile arms stretching out over the surface. These crystals also have their c-axis vertical. The dendritic arms are very fragile, and soon break off, leaving a mixture of discs and arm fragments. With any kind of turbulence in the water, these fragments break up further into random-shaped small crystals which form a suspension of increasing density in the surface water, an ice type called frazil or grease ice . In quiet conditions the frazil crystals soon freeze together to form a continuous thin sheet of young ice; in its early stages, when it is still transparent, it is called nilas . When only a few centimetres thick this is transparent (dark nilas) but as the ice grows thicker the nilas takes on a grey and finally a white appearance. Once nilas has formed, a quite different growth process occurs, in which water molecules freeze on to the bottom of the existing ice sheet, a process called congelation growth. This growth process yields first-year ice , which in a single season in the Arctic reaches a thickness of 1.5-2 m.

If the initial ice formation occurs in rough water, for instance at the extreme ice edge in rough seas such as the Greenland or Bering Seas, then the high energy and turbulence in the wave field maintains the new ice as a dense suspension of frazil, rather than forming nilas. This suspension undergoes cyclic compression because of the particle orbits in the wave field, and during the compression phase the crystals can freeze together to form small coherent cakes of slush which grow larger by accretion from the frazil ice and more solid through continued freezing between the crystals. This becomes known as pancake ice because collisions between the cakes pump frazil ice suspension onto the edges of the cakes, then the water drains away to leave a raised rim of ice which gives each cake the appearance of a pancake. At the ice edge the pancakes are only a few cm in diameter, but they gradually grow in diameter and thickness with increasing distance from the ice edge, until they may reach 3-5 m diameter and 50-70 cm thickness. The surrounding frazil continues to grow and supply material to the growing pancakes.

At greater distances inside the ice edge, where the wave field is calmed, the pancakes may begin to freeze together in groups and eventually coalesce to form first large floes , then finally a continuous sheet of first-year ice known as consolidated pancake ice. Such ice has a different bottom morphology from normal sea ice. The pancakes at the time of consolidation are jumbled together and rafted over one another, and freeze together in this way with the frazil acting as "glue". The result is a very rough, jagged bottom, with rafted cakes doubling or tripling the normal ice thickness, and with the edges of pancakes protruding upwards to give a surface topography resembling a "stony field".The rough bottom is an excellent substrate for algal growth and a refuge for krill. The thin ice permits much light to penetrate, and the result is a fertile winter ice ecosystem. In the Arctic, a key area where pancake ice forms the dominant ice type over an entire region is the so-called Odden ice tongue in the Greenland Sea. The Odden (the word is Norwegian for headland) grows eastward from the main East Greenland ice edge in the vicinity of 72-74N during the winter because of the presence of very cold polar surface water in the Jan Mayen Current, which diverts some water eastward from the East Greenland Current at that latitude. Most of the old ice continues south, driven by the wind, so a cold open water surface is exposed on which new ice forms as frazil and pancake in the rough seas. The salt rejected back into the ocean from this ice formation causes the surface water to become more dense and sink, sometimes to great depths (2500 m or more), making this one of the few regions of the ocean where winter convection occurs, which helps drive the entire worldwide system of surface and deep currents known as the thermohaline circulatio....n................OMG, I just realised that I wasnt there and I dont care.
(reply to this comment)

From Ex-member
Tuesday, September 12, 2006, 14:01

(Agree/Disagree?)

Heh-heh, discovered time released Adarol did we? I feel ya, I feel ya....(reply to this comment

From Nick
Friday, April 14, 2006, 14:44

(Agree/Disagree?)

Man, I think somone needs to get out a little more on a Sat night......


JK :)(reply to this comment

From Phoenixkidd
Monday, April 17, 2006, 11:17

(Agree/Disagree?)

Y'all need to read your bibles more!..Stacy, Heidi and Frank (The Radio Show) mentioned this finding and had callers--However they all seemed to forget the part where Peter asked Jesus to walk out in the water and he did but then looked at the waves and fell in, to which Jesus lifted him out of the water with the words "oh ye of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt" Or some kind of beatitudes circumventing the fact that this nut job decided to "walk on water"....All this to say if it was really ice, why didn't the disciples think of this? I'd like you to think of other aspects of this story such as,,,

A.According to the story they were in waves, now usually water has to be still to form ice but not so in very cold places...Therefore if we believe the fact that Jesus was walking on ice--Hell he wasn't walking he was surfing on a slab of ice!!!! ---DUDE !!

B. Isreal is in a semi-arid land, the sea of gallillee does get cold in winter, but it's not like that lake in Switzerland that had frozen waves on it after one storm.

C. What the hell were the disciples doing fishing in very cold water with ice?? Sure you can catch fish but fish like to stay at the bottom when a lake gets frozen over where the water is warmer than the surface in a semi-coma state..Unless they were ice-fishing, the chances of them catching anything from a boat is slim to none!

d. Peter decides to hop out of the boat in the middle of a storm and either he also surfed on another piece of ice towards Jesus or walked on the water. Lets say he got on another piece of ice, wow he musta maintained excellent balance, and started floating towards Jesus as he was walking at the same time!! That means the lake currents must've been directing towards eachother!! Very unusual in storm conditions, usually the top of the water floats the same direction as the wind above it. So unless there was somekind of suction hole in the middle of the luck, a. sucking Jesus and Peter together, or b. Jesus' piece of ice suddenly stopped, whilst the piece of ice that Peter was on started to move towards him or C. Both pieces immediately stopped and Peter was walking towards Jesus' piece of ice and fell into a crack. --THESE ARE ALL HIGHLY UNUSUAL CIRCUMSTANCES IN METEROLIGICAL SCIENCE

SO you have to either believe that, the entire story was fabricated or that this miracle did indeed happen.

I personally believe the entire story was a fabrication to convince Greeks, Romans and all other pantheon worshipping peoples of the divinity of some Jewish Rabbi. (reply to this comment

From Gypsy
Monday, April 17, 2006, 11:51

(Agree/Disagree?)

Granted! You have a point there!

But hell... were you funny! I ought to send more of those crapy articles so i can get your replies on them, honestly, i had a good laugh!

(reply to this comment

From Phoenixkidd
Monday, April 17, 2006, 11:09

(Agree/Disagree?)

Y'all need to read your bibles more!..Stacy, Heidi and Frank (The Radio Show) mentioned this finding and had callers--However they all seemed to forget the part where Peter asked Jesus to walk out in the water and he did but then looked at the waves and fell in, to which Jesus lifted him out of the water with the words "oh ye of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt" Or some kind of beatitudes circumventing the fact that this nut job decided to "walk on water"....All this to say if it was really ice, why didn't the disciples think of this?

A.According to the story they were in waves, now usually water has to be still to form ice but not so in very cold places...Therefore if we believe the fact that Jesus was walking on ice--Hell he wasn't walking he was surfing on a slab of ice!!!!

B. Isreal is in a semi-arid land, the sea of gallillee does get cold, but it's not like that lake in Switzerland that had frozen waves on it after one storm.

(reply to this comment

From solemn
Friday, April 14, 2006, 18:31

(Agree/Disagree?)

Copy & paste bruddah :0P(reply to this comment

From vixen
Friday, April 14, 2006, 11:14

(Agree/Disagree?)

Heheheheheh, you're funny!


I still think mine's better, though :-P(reply to this comment

From solemn
Friday, April 14, 2006, 11:35

(Agree/Disagree?)

Eh, you are a tough act to folow. I'llbet I could beat you at arm-wrestling though.(reply to this comment

from sailor
Friday, April 14, 2006 - 09:31

(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm guessing that would mean that the disciples were fishing with an icebreaker
(reply to this comment)
from placebo
Friday, April 14, 2006 - 08:53

(Agree/Disagree?)
I saw that on Cnn as well and I can only echo Vix' sentiment.
(reply to this comment)
from vixen
Friday, April 14, 2006 - 07:11

(Agree/Disagree?)
Don't know, don't care.
(reply to this comment)

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