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Getting On : Faith
| from moon beam - Saturday, May 21, 2005
accessed 1625 times |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from frmrjoyish
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:06
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Unfortunately it's not only men who are in favor of making abortions illegal. Women are now less concerned with womens right's issues than in previous years even though here in the US we make less money on the dollar than men compared to ten years ago, there are far less women representatives in government than ten years ago, and women's rights, and human rights in general, now take a back seat to this new wave of religious fanatasicm that's sweeping the country. Hopefully women will wake up and send a message to politicians that a rollback of our rights will mean a rollback of our votes. Freedom and liberty are just words that get politicians elected. The real test of a democracy is whether or not all people are in fact equal, sadly, the US now falls far short of that goal now than it did in years past.
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| | | | | | | from SeanSwede
Monday, May 30, 2005 - 15:00
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Personal "quotes"
Religion will always stay the same. The bible will always stay the same but man and our minds will go on and on into better and newer things like we have always done...how about that :)
Man is pretty arrogant if they think that they have it all figured out about heaven, hell, jesus etc. What their saying is that they are basically better than their god. Cause man is deciding about how those religions(christianity, islam) are supposed to work...right?
The bible and the Koran is a threat to democracy. You can`t change them, it would be "blasphemy"...so just drop it!
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| | | | | | | from SeanSwede
Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 01:31
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I`m sure everyone knows what I`m talking about and won`t have to explain alot of the different deeper things behind this phenomenon when I say that we have all learned alot about the mind and psychology from being in The Group. I started to discover it myself sometime after leaveing TF as have many others.
I mean we were just trying to survive during that time in TF and just like blind people for example, we developed other psychological instincts and abilities all in the fight for self preservation.
We became very sensitive to other peoples, should i say "aura". We became experts at deception and getting away with it. We began to master the ability to play tricks on peoples minds so that we could bring out the truth or whatever information that we wanted without them knowing it, seeing that that is what they did with us as children. Of course we know that deception is "very naughty". As long as it is not missused you can almost call it a psychological "power", strange and weird as it may sound. I`m of course not recommending we start going berzerk with these unusual abilities that we´ve developed because our survival instincts told us to for years and years.
Our brains were pushed to the limit and out sprang these strange ways of talking and thinking and asking important but lurking and lureing and what may even sound like off the wall questions. But to our advantage. I`m sure you all know what I mean by that.
I mean its become a part of our daily lifes...not the deception part I hope.
Playing mind games has been very facinating. I for example use it alot with christians and muslims...(and even with the boss at times:) They usually get pretty pissed off when I start bringing them back to earth and reminding them about their beliefs. Its all very hard to put into words, really. But I`m sure you know what I am talking about.
For me its all been very intressting and fascinating. Its like watching a soap opera or something. You almost just kick back and watch the show and they don`t realise a thing, but you sure do learn about their states of mind, character and personality. I`ve realised how easy it is to plant a subcontious seed of doubt in their minds. Some people have even become depressed and thats when you start feeling quilty for screwing with their long programmed minds from kindergarden to college. Seeing that at least in this country the schooling system is a very tight and controlled one and the curriculum is exactly, and I mean EXACTLY the same all over the north here. NEO-mainstream. This place is a real smorgasbord for exercising your mind game abilities. One thing I have seen with alot of people out here is how zombie-ish they are. They have all have pretty much the exact same background and upbringing. Alot of people don´t really think for themselves. They all seem like they have been pre-programmed to think ONE way and they all talk about the same god damn subjects. Sports, girls, cars, mobilephones, style, etc. All very, very shallow and unintelligent and materialistic slaves to the next shopping spree to stay on top of the latest clothing style, mobile phone, car, way of talking etc. You almost think its part of a big conspiracy that its made to be like that to keep people in the dark about whats going on in the background of our society. By giving them toys and loans so that they won`t have time to think or stand up for themselves and attack us when things are not going the way they think should be fair."
Well, I didn`t really make a good impression about scandinavia for the turists sake, but otherwise its a beautiful country with lots of beautiful women and men...with the acception of my self.
Ok, enough of my bullshit. I`m ready for the sarcastic comments on this. But those of you who know what I am talking about, just feel free to add something to this subject.
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|  From Red
Tuesday, May 31, 2005, 15:04
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I know what you mean by the mentality up here in the North. It's easy to be self satisfied here where we have everything we need, and life is never too hard. It frustrates me too sometimes. Then I know that it's time to catch a breath of fresh air in a different country with new impulses.
I think I'm addicted to travelling (I'm most likely not alone there). Being physically tied down to one geographical area would literally be hell for me. You know, Scandinavia is in the periphery of the rest of Europe, and its amazing how easily people here forget (or chose to ignore) that there is a "big world" out there. I guess I'm scared to death of letting myself become so narrow-minded.
By the way, nice to see you're still alive and kicking Sean, those were some times in Nielsens, huh...? By the way, beautiful kids! ;-)
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| | | | | from
Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 09:43
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http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist2.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/intol_bibl.htm
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| From Phoenixkidd
Tuesday, May 24, 2005, 09:55
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People wonder how can people be so religous and have such intolerance to others...The answer seems so simple. Take a look at some of the things Jesus said and you wonder why some bible swinging morons have such prejudices. The passage where he refers to the gentiles as "Dogs" when refusing to heal the child of a foreign woman, to which the woman replied, "even the dogs lick the crumbs off the children's table" ---This passage always made me wonder what Christ thought about foreigners and his prejudices towards them. It seems like this attitude certainly carried over to established religion and made things such inquisition, slavery and embodagement became allowable and even perpitrated by the church of their day. (reply to this comment) |
| | From greensack
Sunday, May 29, 2005, 12:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
You should examine the gospel of Thomas. Outlawed by the Catholic church but kept alive by the orthodox church, as well as some heretical groups, it containes certain of christs sayings which we're all familiar with and others we're not.
The language is more simple and yet just as cryptic if not more than the canonical books. It is argued that Jesus may have had a more direct roll in the composition of this book than the others. You'll remember, Thomas was the doubter, at least that's the reputation he was given. When one reads his book one can see why he was out of favor with the cononical versions, many things are pretty contradictory to what christians have believed all along. It'll broaden your understanding of the christian lunacy if nothing else.
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| | | | | from READ her article!
Monday, May 23, 2005 - 19:58
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She's right, you know, and I was thinking today, relatedly, that the evangelical/political right is so unconcerned about: others in general, the poor, the environment, the economy, foreign relations, the war, medical research, science in general, education, etc. BECAUSE we are living in the end times!!!!! You never see it in the media, because it would negate their power, but without exception: all of them from southern baptists down to the crackest cults, believe god's going to solve all the problems when Jesus comes back, and the ones that matter will be sucked up anyway. They have this mandate to save everyone first but that doesn't include ANYTHING else. Don't know why I didn't think of this before. On a political level, they block everything that helps anyone but themselves.
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| From moon beam
Tuesday, May 24, 2005, 04:51
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They've been expecting the 'end time' since the 12th century-I mean how many years are they going to keep the carrot from going rotten? The way I see it, post modernism, communications,science and medicine came along, eventually, though the church burnt, banned, destroyed a lot of woman and children, books, traditions of songs and art that was used to pass down knowledge from generation to generation etc.. They managed to take away the healing, wisdom and power held within us all, and pass it to the church, where you had to pay a hefty price monetarily and blackmailed, tortured, killed, into believing and serving without question the one and only 'GOD'.
The carrot did start to appear pretty damn rotten to many and western society began shedding their religious skin, but the need to have the 'rapture' meme continue, in order to carry on enslaving people to their bidding, seems to have been mended with the emergence of cults. Which in my opinion prey on our society, recruiting and emerging the new member in an environment that is fanatical, dogmatic, abusive and authoritarian.
From the conquistadors, crusaders, missionaries, cults to the churchgoer, they have one thing in common, the belief they are on Gods mission. They have raped the earth and many of it's inhabitants, and grown rich beyond belief.
Now some Christians may say "but they are just institutions and some bad people blah blah", well it seems they can no more change their leaders and their implementation of what it is to be a Christian then my dad or your parents can change Zerby's mind.
This latest Pope is a good case in point, he is a backward looking, traditionalist, Bushy boy’s best friend!
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| | | | | | | | From moon beam
Tuesday, May 31, 2005, 11:23
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The Law of love was a rip off from the pagans. It was one guy's rational for sleeping with whoever he pleased, children and his daughters included. I am pretty sure his inner self didn't approve of his physical and emotional lust and perversions which he could not control. But in the same way that he left out the later part of scripture "(All things are lawful unto me) but all things are not expedient" so he left out "if it hurts no one."
Now Berg never excepted critisism, disscussion or free speach so he was intentionaly not wanting to know if indeed it did hurt anyone. Yet "a common truth" in psycology and development, is that children subjected to sexual abuse are affected negativly.
I don't agree that all who joined TF started out with the same rational as Berg and that it was "Birds of a feather flock together" for this issue. So therefore they were not practising a subjective moral code, rather, someone else's and due to the structure and control in which they live(d).
Hence all the effort and lengths TF went to, to create and maintain in it's members, as little thought as possible.
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| | From conjoined twins
Sunday, May 29, 2005, 16:58
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unfortunatley "post modernism, communications, science and medicine" are not going to save us from those in power (who are not christians! the neo-cons are straussians) - po mo is impotent in the face of power, like the court jester. The media, including mobile phones and the internet are just as likely to be further instruments of control rather than any way to organise sucessful revolution. Science is driven by war and heavy industry. And scientific medicine keeps the sick people that our society produces alive rather than seek to make them heathly.
If this is all secularism offers, is it any surprise that most people still hold on to religion?
Also you seem to have a very establishment catholic view of christianity - Protestantism was a *protest* against catholic corruption and stressed the personal relationship with a God you could feel and communicate with directly and internally. everyone is equi-distant from the divine, as close as your own feelings.
Do you have a problem with christianity conceived of like this?(reply to this comment) |
| | From frmrjoyish
Tuesday, May 31, 2005, 12:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
Real science is not driven by war or industry. Some scientific disciplines may be funded by such sources but I can assure you that independant science is alive and well. It's the application of scientific findings that is limited by politics, as it should be. Unfortunately when you live in a democracy where every ignorant fool above the age of 18 has a vote, not all votes are based on sound science or what is in the best interest of those voting. Most people vote based their emotions instead of facts. It's just the price paid for living in a free society.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From frmrjoyish
Tuesday, May 31, 2005, 16:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
Depending on your definition of a disaster, there is none predicted for certain by the scientific community. Noone can say for sure what will happen in the future or how the planet will respond to the anthropogenic changes it is currently being subjected to. There are some things we know, for instance, we know that we have changed the composition of our atmosphere by increasing the amount of radiative gases such as carbon dioxide, the NOx gasses, and methane. We also know that since the industrial revolution, which began the admission of said gasses, the earths mean temperature has increased above its fluctuations for the past several thousand years. What we don't know is the long term effect of these changes.
We see the climate change we are experiencing but we can't say for sure what can definitively be attributed to our use of hydrocarbon fuels and what is natural climate fluctuations. We can say for sure that we have effectively changed the hydrological cycle of the globe and changed species abundance and distribution wherever humans dominate. We can say for sure that we have only one planet and it is better to air on the side of caution. We can't afford to turn our atmosphere into one big chemistry experiment to see how much compositional change it can take before being unsuitable for life as we know it.
As far as a free society, of course I'll lean towards that as opposed to a dictatorship or communism. But we do need to realize that no system is 100% perfect. We need to realize that with a free society come costs and responsibility. That's all I was trying to say.
(OK, I know this sounds preachy and soapboxish but I don't have time to reword, sorry.)
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| | | | | From frmrjoyish
Wednesday, June 01, 2005, 08:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
Studying current ecological trends and trying to determine the future degree and magnitude of future changes is different than predicting a broad and vauge ecological disaster. Since I am in the ecology field, I can't say much about meteroid predictions although I do know that the chances of a large meteroid hitting us will increase with time. As an ecological scientist, I can tell you that there are no current predictions for ecological disaster or collapse. Ecology is a highly dynamic and a very complicated science because of the difficulty involved when trying to isolate single causes or factors. This makes predictions very difficult and most prominent ecologists shy away from explicit prediction although recommendations based on current findings are common. Often finding and reporting a current ecological phenomena such as the hole in the ozone layer is misinterpreted as a "prediction" by the general public. The scientists involved discovered the phenomena, determined the cause, and advised the public accordingly. It's not a prediction to assume that continuing to flood the atmosphere with ozone destroying CFC's will cause the condition to worsen, as was the case. My comment above was in response to the "ecological disaster" comment, I was not trying to say that scientists are not accurate in finding and reporting the latest trends and phenomena.(reply to this comment) |
| | From moon beam
Tuesday, May 31, 2005, 07:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
Cults are also a *protest* against mainstream! They are deceptive and rely on ignorance and fear!
I just saw an episode of South Park that really rang true.
The church were loosing their congregation, The preacher did a "fire and brimstone sermon". The kids got scared, and were told they had to "confess their sins". This raised the question of "Timmey" -under the nuns logic he would burn in hell(as he couldn't confess)-so Cartman starts his own church-all the kids drop out of school and reject their parents. Anyway it turns out Cartman is in it for the money and the nun has to call on jesus to come and tell the children that to be a good person one must remain in society, help others, do well in school etc..
Cartman in the old southern preacher stylie was a riot!
TOO funny!
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| | | | | From SeanSwede
Tuesday, May 24, 2005, 11:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
Good article! I have always thought the same way about all of it.
I thought that this part that you mentioned was particularily quite a good idea for them.
"If the Christians are so keen to die then why cant they do the honorable thing and follow those Jonestown kooks or ol Mr Koresh. We don't need them defiling the rest of us with their psychotic beliefs. I think there is a case to be made for a self defensive campaign against these fools before they destroy us all."
I can`t wait untill the war on Christianity begins. Its coming soon!(reply to this comment) |
| | From Joey
Monday, May 30, 2005, 05:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
Now, now,
Trying to change Christians is as bad as them trying to change us! There are so many beliefs and combinations of beliefs that we can all have one of our own, the whole idea I'm sure! I'm as disturbed as the next person by those who push their ideas onto others ( which is why I can't stand sales talk! ), but there's no way in the world I'm letting it affect the way I respond to the person next to me.
My brother is a hard core churchie and as far as I'm concerned if it rocks his boat he can float it but don't invite me on for a BBQ till you pull down the banners and turn off the subliminal tapes!!!! Who am I to judge his position in comparison to mine.
This position took a long time to reach as I despise the christian faith based on it's contribution to the vast majority of injustices perpetrated throughout history. Our western world puts shit on Sadam H.!!! He ain't got shit on christianity! That religion has been a weapon of mass destruction, a sword in the days when mass meant 100, and a tool used by millions of humans with manipulative tendencies to control others, an excuse for abuse for milleniums.
I don't want to be anything like that so I started with me. My best weapon in defence is, "I don't do it to you!"
I'm not talking about groups like TF that harbour abusers or the more conservative church groups either for the same reason in that they harbour abusers and cover for them. I'm talking about the individuals that have chosen to follow that belief system for their own reasons. I remember the leaders and churchies used to say that people will see that we're so much happier than everyone else and so will want to know the difference! I think that those who find internal confident peace exhibit the happiness they try so hard to portray. Cool thing is that that internal peace can be found in just knowing you're on the road and going the direction you choose, doesn't matter if you've just started or you think you're close to finished. It's not a race it's a journey. Sit up, grab the wheel and drive. I feel sorry for those who give up the pleasure of steering their own ship to an entity they call God. But their not going to change their minds by getting earbashed any more than we are!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From roughneck
Monday, May 30, 2005, 14:10
(Agree/Disagree?)
"driving is a largely unconscious activity...."
I sure as fuck hope not, buddy... please tell me you don't have a driver's licence! :) If you do, and happen to find yourself becoming unconscious while driving, I should advise you to seek treatment for your incipient narcolepsy/epilepsy and/or drug & alcohol abuse problem(s) without delay. Either that or buy some new CDs that aren't so damned soporific... :P
And yes, I'm acutely aware that my conscious self is being (technically speaking) "a dick-head" here... :) (reply to this comment) |
| | From ameliaus
Wednesday, June 01, 2005, 08:55
(Agree/Disagree?)
slightly off topic but related...i was working 2 full time jobs for a while and one night when I was driving I "woke up" going over 80 mph, coming up on a car going maybe 55. The car fish-tailed when I braked, but i didn't hit the one in front of me. When my heart slowed down, I realized i was about 8 miles farther down the highway than when I last remembered.
Best I can figure, the part of my brain that usually does the driving was doing all of it, and the part that does the cutthroat driving was asleep, and woke up in time.(reply to this comment) |
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