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from Get a life. Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 10:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Were you a first or second generation member? Either way sounds like you are still brane washed to me. (reply to this comment)

From Wednesday, December 01, 2004, 18:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Plus crane washed too!(reply to this comment)

from Cultinvator Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 04:22 (Agree/Disagree?) I know it doesn't help to add credibility to our articles that we just became apostates to our previous lifestyle, but our opinion still counts for better or worse. I hate to bust your European American bubble of Christianity, but christians have their skeletons just like every religion, and saying, it's them other christians is just as fair as saying that pagans are the same as satanists, or non greeks are all barbarians. Crusades in the name of 'saving the holy city, and now the war to save the 'garden of eden' once more is just an example of what happens when judeochristian values pop up with the excuse of heroism. Berg did the same thing than every neochristian metaphisical group did, prophesy doom, just in case if it happens. And California still hasn't been destroyed, and regan is dead, but not by the commies. Give me a break, to say that berg was doing fine and it all went down hill is a real joke from a hungtinton beach junkie who thought that leaving one's parents and brothers to join a stranger who promises them the moon with a triangle in it. Maria was no more or less to blame for the course of actioins that the family took and is taking in preying on the 'pure' ignorance of undersocialized children of cultural inbreeding. And maybe you should have turned to witcraft, maybe you might have satisfied those bipolar frustrations in a semisencere manner, cliche, but at least most earth oriented religions don't come up with thinking that their way is the only way to live a decent life. At least you seem to want to talk, just understand that we think it stinks. At least I do. Jesus was probably a great guy, but the translated version today is really quite a pukable version since the rule of constantine it's virtually impossible to separate political means from the character. (reply to this comment)

from Wolf Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 20:44 (Agree/Disagree?) “A sect also known as pilgrim fathers” I don’t know whether to laugh or sigh. (reply to this comment)

from A sickness called pedophelia Friday, November 19, 2004 - 13:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Berg ruined his first wife sexually because of his perversions. Berg began his molestation of his oldest daughter when she was very young and then when she got old enought to say no, he moved onto his other daughter and molested her probably his entire life. Don't forget the "goosing Faithy under the table story." Berg was a pedophile and he was never a good christian. He got himself kicked out of every church. The only reason he started the whole thing was out of guilt. He thought if he did something big enough God would forgive him for all of the evil deeds he couldn't control on his daughters. Remember when it first started you could not have sex unless you were married? He was trying very hard to become a good christian. But when Maria came along with was power hungry and yes was evil but they belonged together. Maria gave berg permission to restart with his perversions again. She did this because she knew she could hold onto the power if she let him have what he wanted sexually. Maria is the one who gave berg permission to molest his own granddaughter and other unfortunate female preteens. She fed him his alcohol, she turned the tape recorder and controlled him through his own weakness...nothing positive or good will come from a man who was trying to buy his own way to heaven through "good deeds." In the end all his wages of sin will eat his path straight back to hell. (reply to this comment)

from An Aquarian Friday, November 19, 2004 - 00:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Aside from airing an extremely simplified and slightly modified version of american religious history, what is the point of your article? Do you want us to start a new group and pick up where Berg went wrong? (reply to this comment)

from Baxter Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 06:56 (Agree/Disagree?) When I left the Family I actually told myself I was gonna spend five years in the outside world and then rejoin; I believed all that shit. I believed in God, I believed in Jesus, I believed in Berg, Abrahim, the fucking Snowman, you named it I believed in it. My own subconscious practically dragged me out kicking and screaming, I did not understand why I was rebelling against it, yet I was. What I found when i got to the outside was that suddenly I had had to justify and validate all the ridiculous assertions of Berg and ilk. I had to explain to myself why I believed in God, but more importantly, why I believed Berg. I had to understand why i believed what i believed. It's sounds pathetic but I actually consciously held on to a lot of it for a long time, because without it I felt like something had been stolen from me which I did not want to admit was missing. What Berg did was take a bunch of valid points, ie. criticisms of the outside world, established religion, etc. and then made them rhetorical; he then, based on those still relatively valid points, built a whole world of erroneous crap on top. Some of it was pretty convincing if you had no alternative argument, which we certainly were not parley to; but at the centre was an even bigger lie than any that he accused anyone else of- the idea that he was sole medium of divine truth. The only thing that connected his ridiculous claim to authorisation from God to his semi-valid attack on the world came from the repetition of his assumed importance, and the fact that he comprehensively cut us off from contradiction. I'm sorry to say this, but I'm afraid to say that you are likely to experience the same thing. You seem to still be holding on the Great berg Myth, and getting it out of your system is gonna hurt. But just ask yourself one thing: what did Berg ever REALLY do that benefitted mankind? What was the infallible and exclusive truth that he had access to? (reply to this comment)

From Cultinvator Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Well said Baxter. Well articulated.(reply to this comment)

From Zed Thursday, November 18, 2004, 11:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree.(reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 04:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Just a couple questions: How long ago did you leave and how old are you. Your profile puts you at 19, and by the spelling and grammar, I see it, but the points you bring up about leaving the Family (Berg's pre-Zerby marriage, Aaron's death, FFing) are all points that are way before your time and wouldn't have had such a direct effect on you. Or else you're the first 19 year old whose brought up those points for reasons to leave. (reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Thursday, November 18, 2004, 13:54 (Agree/Disagree?) i am 19 i left 7 years ago and i was curious to see how ex-members would react to this. and as for the berg mith i was talking about when he had the bible as a guide ,his children as leaders , and the bich(maria) was nowhere to be seen.that was when they did the WOE thing to the white house. The history part i got from my parents that joined in 1970 and as for the facts there isnt one thats fake. 1 thing too, u say what did berg do to mankind , well if he had never did what he did i wouldnt be speaking with you today.and my parent would probably still be doing drugs or dead , the others ones would probably be budist or whorshiping satan or who knows what. (reply to this comment)

From Cultinvator Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:29 (Agree/Disagree?) The COG was a foggy few beachbums until their thesis, the WARNING TRACT. Really who are you kidding. Just admit it, them bums, including my dad were really pretty deluded on too much drugs with too little knowlege of the world to balance them out. The warning message was as misleading as the jehova witnesses 6 second coming prophecies, and what kept them together... deluded cohesion.(reply to this comment)

From drunk Saturday, November 20, 2004, 23:03 (Agree/Disagree?) Perhaps it's simply because I am drunk right now, but it has just dawned on me that perhaps you have this glorified image of Berg because your parents need some justification as to why they joined the cult in the first place. Please consider that as good as your parents may be, they may not actually want to admit that they joined a cult of pedofiles and freaks. Just a drunken thought.(reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Sunday, November 21, 2004, 02:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Glorified Berg ??? i dont think so and as for my parents... thats why they left. And scince they arent here to admit it , i'll do it for them ok??(reply to this comment)

From Cultinvator Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:36 (Agree/Disagree?) OK, Berg was not completely out of his mind. he had results... he had a corner in the cult business. I really wouldn't care if he didn't but he did. A religious fanatic is a lunatic when there are no members following. You get a disciple and you've got a cult, you get 40 thousand and you've got a retirement check. Probably more like less than 10k now, but still kind of like a corporation. Evil, yes... but powerful to some extent. There is no doubt that they had ways and means to make shit happen. They were a twisted bunch of motherfuckers, litteraly and my mother was one of them. Bummer, I've tried to explain to her that 'retirement homes' aren't going to work that well unless they drastically re-evaluate their economics and philosophies. Anyways.. you're right that Berg was at least a thinker, an oportunist, and a sick son of a bitch, but he did take his mind fucking seriously. (reply to this comment)

From drunk Sunday, November 21, 2004, 11:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Well actually if your family left in 1997, that means they stuck it out through all the blatant abuse. Seems like they left when they thought the fun was dying down. TF was now fucking Jesus publicly and had toned down their actions with the children. (Disclaimer: This statement is in no way meant to imply that TF no longer abuses children or that the ubusers are no longer in TF.)(reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Sunday, November 21, 2004, 17:47 (Agree/Disagree?) if you are implying that my parents arent perfect i thought i had already made that very clear(reply to this comment)

From drunk Sunday, November 21, 2004, 18:27 (Agree/Disagree?) Imperfection is filing your taxes late. Joining and remaining in a cult for 20+ years that promotes and publishes handbooks on abusing children is criminal. So perhaps I am implying that your parents are more than imperfect.(reply to this comment)

From Banshee Saturday, November 20, 2004, 20:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, we've heard over and over from all the FGs (or SGs like you) who go around saying, "If it wasn't for the Family, I'd never found God..." blah blah blah blech.... If you just would take the time to pick up any book or article written about the 60's and 70's, you would see that Berg's Jesus movement was far from the only one. There were new religions and Jesus people and this and that sprouting up every other day. Every young person alive in that day and age was in the process of either witnessing, being witnessed to, joining a cult or leaving a cult. The probability of your parents "finding God" without Berg are astronomically high. There were enough "Jesus freaks" running around in those days that you could get "saved" every day of the week in a whole new version. The FGs that joined the Family weren't the only hippies from those years that quit drugs and cleaned up their lives and made something of themselves. An entire generation did it. WITHOUT the help of Berg. Heh, imagine that!(reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Saturday, November 20, 2004, 17:09 (Agree/Disagree?) If it weren't for Berg I would know who my family was. As it is, Berg forced apart my family and left me to pick up the pieces. Perhaps then your family left the cult with fondness in their heart, went TS and you didn't experience the full cruelty of Berg's teachings, living isolated from the cult, growing up as part of society, but receiving a filtered version of the cult's truth, your parents'. That might explain some of the errors of your viewpoints.(reply to this comment)

From Tim R Saturday, November 20, 2004, 14:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Whatever1037, your story is somewhat dubious. If you left at age 12 in 1997, then you would recognize a lot more of what we're talking about. Also you wouldn't have that "Berg went bad because of Maria" crap either, that's Joel's excuse for a theory. "Mama" (nobody calls her Maria anymore) has been running the Family since at least the late '80's, maybe longer. If your parents joined in '70 and didn't leave till 1997, then they stuck it out through the "Loving Jesus" revolution and the whole WS prophecy mania. Also, you picked about the worst place in the world to try to recruit members for your proposed cult. As the saying goes: "There's only one part of the forest that will never catch fire; the part that's already been burnt."(reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Sunday, November 21, 2004, 02:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Sadly we left in 1997 and not before . But my parents were obviously blind to the fact that TF had been full BS , and were scared of the " outside world " . But hey , who here wasnt an ignorant before they left TF. (reply to this comment)

From Cultinvator Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:42 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't think scaring off the outside world was the issue buddyboy, Fucking children, controlling education, and childslavery are only a few amongst the greatest booboos. Nobody cares if they thought mickeymouse was comming in the sky, or if the world thought they worshipped fairies. It's the ignoring of the world around them and using us their kids as their cumtissues for jesus that really infuriates anyone following the story to the slightest extent.(reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Sunday, November 21, 2004, 22:29 (Agree/Disagree?) "...who here wasnt an ignorant before they left TF." Unfortunately, many of us were. One main difference though is that most of us had no other comparisons to make to our present life. Your parents had a past other than the cult, so it's not ignorance, it's stupidity, something all our parents are guilty of.(reply to this comment)

From Friday, November 19, 2004, 15:08 (Agree/Disagree?) QUOTE:"1 thing too, u say what did berg do to mankind , well if he had never did what he did i wouldnt be speaking with you today.and my parent would probably still be doing drugs or dead , the others ones would probably be budist or whorshiping satan or who knows what. " That's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make :)(reply to this comment)

From lessethnocentricthan1023 Sunday, November 28, 2004, 16:05 (Agree/Disagree?) I would love to have had buddhist parents. Unfortunately, my parents joined the Family instead. One of them is whereabouts unknown, possibly dead, fist mindfucked by Vietnam and then by TF (why didn't anyone ever tell our parents 2 wrongs don't make a right?). The other one is still in, brain dead, and since to her I might as well be dead, then I don't see how she is really not dead, at least to my life which could use the caring of a mother.(reply to this comment)

From lessethnocentricthan1023 Sunday, November 28, 2004, 16:05 (Agree/Disagree?) I would love to have had buddhist parents. Unfortunately, my parents joined the Family instead. One of them is whereabouts unknown, possibly dead, fist mindfucked by Vietnam and then by TF (why didn't anyone ever tell our parents 2 wrongs don't make a right?). The other one is still in, brain dead, and since to her I might as well be dead, then I don't see how she is really not dead, at least to my life which could use the caring of a mother.(reply to this comment)

From An opinion Friday, November 19, 2004, 05:03 (Agree/Disagree?) Here you say ""..u say what did berg do for mankind, well if he had never did what he did i wouldn't be speacking with you today" That s the reason I thought you were crediting the turd! You said in the beginning of the article "and honestly i didnt see anything wrong in the family(david berg's family ,before mama maria) till maria broke up his marrige and started influencing david and had somthing to do with araon's murder. After that it was all downhill....." It did go downhill for the members yes, but those ideas were in his head already and he had been practising them before he wrote the Mo letters on the subject. I think he played a part in kicking out Eve, his wife, and setting up with Zerby, also not his only mistress/wife. (reply to this comment)

From Sunday, November 28, 2004, 16:07 (Agree/Disagree?) how stupid! of course "if he had never did what he did i wouldn't be speacking with you today" because before Berg people didn't know how to make children!!(reply to this comment)

From Sunday, November 28, 2004, 16:08 (Agree/Disagree?) plus, that aaron/maria thing when it "started going downhill" was pretty darn early when most of us were tiny or even unborn...(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Friday, November 19, 2004, 03:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I think it's great that you are out of TF. Now you can begin to experience what it means to think and speak for yourself. You can also learn how to separate religious rhetoric from historical facts. Sprinkling in a few out of context historical anecdotes in between bible quotes doesn't do too much for your credibility out in the real world. But don't worry, you've taken the first big step and the rest you'll learn in due time hopefully! (reply to this comment)

From Baxter Friday, November 19, 2004, 02:38 (Agree/Disagree?) Why would it be any worse if they were Buddhist? As for your parents' better state, let me take you on a little trip to my end of the world, dude. Not far from where i live is an ex-TF FGA. When she was younger, her husband like to spread his oats. Now she took offence to the fact that her husband was creating a genetic legacy far past his own immediate family, and she tried to do something about it. Now in come the VSs- people authorised by your frikking hero Berg- who decide that she's so out of it that they put her in fucking enforced solitary confinement until she snaps out of it. She's one emotionally wrecked woman as a result of that and other act of compassionate care, but she's nowhere near an isolated incident. On the brighter side, my parents had a great time, running all over the earth, getting run out of countries, etc. so much so that they, like so many other parents, neglected their children and left them without an education, so that most of us find ourselves doing it now. Berg's doctrine destroyed marriages, wrecked families, and created a generation that lacked a cohesive identity. Now you left when you were young so I don't know how much you're aware of, but if your parents didn't get trashed by the Family then I wouldn't go thanking an abusive paedophile for it. (reply to this comment)

From GoldenMic Thursday, November 18, 2004, 17:29 (Agree/Disagree?) For crying out loud! You use all kinds of historical "facts" to justify your odd, self-confirming arcana. Meanwhile, you don't let history teach you anything! Don't you realize what you sound like when you say that Berg deserves credit for doing some things right? Have you ever heard that Nazi's excused Hitler and Mussolini by noting how the trains were all running on time (and, oh yeah, the kids wore nice uniforms and went on nice picnics) Are you aware that your description of how Eastern mysticism came to the West is extremely racist and bigotted, the perspective of the Imperialist West, and not even mildly supported by the facts? Finally, how sad for you AND your parents that they think it was Berg who made them stop participating in self-destruction, rather than the result of their own actions and decisions, and how disgusting that their progress justifies the glorification of some blow-hard who screwed his own grand-daughter, created Nazi-like "camps" for children, and encouraged a whole generation of people to express Christianity by worshiping a man, screwing their own children and each other like senseless rabbits, and holding the "world" (God's creation) in contempt. (reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Thursday, November 18, 2004, 18:00 (Agree/Disagree?) if i made u think i was complementing berg on anything then let me excuse myself ONE MORE TIME . What english do you speak i know i have some spelling errors but this is the third time i said my article hasnt got shit to do with david berg. And as for my discription of religions comming to america and euorope i don't see anything racist about that . I know you hate berg but dont take it out on me cause im a christian and happend to have read in the bible prior to writing my article ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD . If you're saying i live in a fairy tale world , that i wont deny . But hey my whole life has been a fairy tale. (reply to this comment)

From Sunday, November 28, 2004, 16:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Lucky you for having a life that is a fairy tale. Mine, unfortunately, is reality, and reality can be a bitch.(reply to this comment)

From Haunted Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 06:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Like all tales, yours is based upon a myth. Enjoy it while it lasts, and I hope you're able to make it through the loss of innocence and the awakening of your mind and consciousness when it comes.....(reply to this comment)

From Cultinvator Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:50 (Agree/Disagree?) That's fine, you can be a christian, I have christian friends too... but I tell them openly I'm not a fan of their fairy book, the holey bible. I respect that they are, I get sarcastic, but really don't tell me you don't get sarcastic about pagans... I'm sure you've got your jokes about idolworshipers. Really Jesus is another idol, to me he is, and preaching on this site is fine if you're willing to take a chill pill if we let you know how we think about your 'family values'. I'm spiritual, an atheist in the traditional form, but I can see how values physically have a way of translating spiritually in mythos. Except I think that the natural world and the supernatural world really are one and the same. All things work together to do what they have to do. Good and bad are just opposites and somewhere in the middle lies reality and a balance of light and shadow, chirascuro sounds like a great idea for a mona lisa. (reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Saturday, November 20, 2004, 17:11 (Agree/Disagree?) "...my whole life has been a fairy tale" Isn't it time to wake up from the fairy tale and try to view other opinions and beliefs with an open mind?(reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Saturday, November 20, 2004, 17:44 (Agree/Disagree?) nahhhhh . but thanks for your concern(reply to this comment)

From Baxter Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, then stop trying to impose your fairy tale on the rest of us!(reply to this comment)

From porceleindoll Sunday, November 21, 2004, 22:27 (Agree/Disagree?) The Man of LaMancha--"If madness be gladness then let me be mad..."--is that how it goes?(reply to this comment)

From An opinion Thursday, November 18, 2004, 14:34 (Agree/Disagree?) You credit Berg starting the group ,for your birth? Can't that label be given to anyone? Also it seems ilogical don't you think? as Berg is also responsible for the people that are NOT here today! Also commiting crimminal acts can't be defended because it mean't your birth. Otherwise a guy could rape a woman and plead his case as "!well if I hadn't of raped her she would never of had my child!" Berg was never "right" in the head! (reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Thursday, November 18, 2004, 15:30 (Agree/Disagree?) hmmmm. dont ever remember complimenting berg on anything I think what i did do was state the consecuences of his actions . correct ? but maybe you're right and i'll have to read my article again to see excactly how I was prasing berg , but then maybe you should read it agian and see how you're wrong(reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Thursday, November 18, 2004, 15:36 (Agree/Disagree?) also remember my article is a history article and i think i only mentoined berg twice. i dont see how berg comes into all of this ,only mentioned him twice (reply to this comment)

From Thanks Man Sunday, November 28, 2004, 16:14 (Agree/Disagree?) For the comic relief! "My article is a history article..." hahahahahahahahahahahahah(reply to this comment)

From The Pedantic Prick Sunday, November 28, 2004, 17:24 (Agree/Disagree?) I do so love it when stupid people repeat words. It's not necessarily a grammar error, but it gives me laughs nonetheless. Zoolander's "I just had a really late party night last night" comes to mind.(reply to this comment)

From Wolf Sunday, November 28, 2004, 20:32 (Agree/Disagree?) I find it more humorous that he thinks his confused ramblings have anything to do with “history”. It’s kind of like drawing a stick figure with distorted features and saying “this is a self-portrait”. Hey, glad to see somebody else enjoyed Zoolander -- I love it!(reply to this comment)

From GoldenMic Saturday, November 20, 2004, 12:18 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, you are not being very honest here. You may have mentioned Berg infrequently, but you also clearly suggested that he wasn't such a bad guy since he started a movement where you happened to be born. Also, I don't hate Berg since I never knew him, and I will bet you that almost everyone on this site has read the Bible many, many times. I am sincerely surprised at your inability to see that the objections you are finding here have NOTHING to do with the fact that you are a Christian, and everything to do with your mindless Biblical quotations (as if you were the arbiter of its meaning) and your repeated attempts to judge and condemn others who dare to believe things you don't. You keep describing yourself as part of the old "hot and cold" gang like strong opinions make you right, or better. In fact, judging and condemning people is not your right, and most of your Bible quotes position YOU in the Christ position, as if we all needed to meet YOUR standards, rather than search our own hearts for the truth of God. Do you not remember that Jesus said that all of the law and the prophets can be summarized in the statement "love the Lord with all your heart and love your neigbor as yourself". You are a hypocrite and a fool, but I imagine you will eventually grow up. Surprsingly, most of the people here (including me) won't even say "I told you so" if you ever show some grace and compassion and maturity, but will instead welcome you as somebody who finally woke up. Its lucky for you that your peers here will display some grace and forgiveness towards your diatribes and hatefulness, showing more true Christianity in their kindness (despite your mean assaults upon their values), than you have shown so far. I guess you don't believe that its supposed to be "good news", but instead should be wrath and judgement. What a heavy-handed and ugly Master you now serve. How's that for answering your arrticles? Hot/Cold enough for you? Mike Martella(reply to this comment)

From whatever1037 Sunday, November 21, 2004, 02:41 (Agree/Disagree?) From mike "Well, you are not being very honest here. You may have mentioned Berg infrequently, but you also clearly suggested that he wasn't such a bad guy" 1st of all i never said that but sorry if you interpted it that way. 2cond of all i could care less about berg than you , and do not hate him . 3rd you could have read the bible 1million times if you dont belive in it then what good is that. 4rth i am the biggest fool in the world and it makes me happy and i do not have any intention of changing . but didnt you call me "hypocrite and fool" isnt tht judging well lemme tell you thet you have just judged youself as a hypocrite . Why ? You did somthing i do plus you point your finger at me . and a fool . why? cause you didnt see it on time But dont worry you unlike me will grow up . right ? hot / cold ? more like confused (reply to this comment)

From vixen Saturday, November 20, 2004, 12:29 (Agree/Disagree?) Well said, Mike. And to add to the above, I propose that we all quit answering whatever1037's posts as this stupid 'discussion' is boring me rigid.(reply to this comment)

From Cultinvator Tuesday, November 23, 2004, 04:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Yea, I'd say the topic is dead.(reply to this comment)

From evanman Sunday, November 28, 2004, 16:59 (Agree/Disagree?) I joined the "Family"(aka CoG) in 1972. Back then it was called "the family". From reading the Mo-Letters, Berg always spoke about his sexual trists with prostitutes and other women even when he was on the road working for Fred Jordan, years before TSC and CoG. He wrote about his sexual experiences as a child and would gleefully recount the incident with the Mexican Housemaid when she would perform fallatio on him and got caught by his mother. Then his bragging about having sex with one of his cousins. I deeply regret my past, and my involvement with CoG. I could hide behind all this "brainwashing" stuff, but I have to take full responsibility for my own part in promoting the "Myth of Mo and Maria", Ffing and all the rest up until I left in 1979. I have not rejected the Bible, nor Jesus Christ. Although I am very wary of anyone who preaches and claims to be a christian. I also appreciate the distrust and enmity felt by many of the young people who have left TF after being born, raised and abused by those who were recruited into CoG and indoctrinated into the ways of "Berg". It is truly shocking to realise that we were being, what I describe as, being made into clones of Berg! I can only be grateful that I came out before I got in any deeper than I did. I probably wouldn't be alive today.(reply to this comment)