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Getting On : Lovers

Les RÍves D'Amour

from Anthony - Saturday, November 09, 2002
accessed 2463 times

The title is french for "Dreams Of Love", and I know I'm going to asked who it is addressed to.

He was the one, the man of your dreams; you had just left the cult and felt like a terd out of the toilet. He was attracted to you because you had an innocence that so many young women have when leaving the sheltering and ignorant isolation of religious cults. Of course, he didnít know this right away, in fact, at first he mistook your sweetness as a ploy to empty his wallet; yes, he thought you were a prostitute or the like. But that all changed once he got to know you and hear your story, now he understood what made you seem different than all the other women he had known and still knows. More importantly, he accepted you for who you were, which meant the world to you. Of course, later, during heated arguments he would use your upbringing against you, put in your place, cut you down, way down, but that was later and this was then. You had never been given this much gratifying attention prior to meeting him Ė it seemed to be happening so fast, like a fairy-tell, cupidís spell. You were like the typical corn-on-the-cob farm bitch from Kansas who moved to the big city and became an instant celebrity, prettier than a fantasy, but dumb as, well, a dumbass, to put it mildly. You still felt inadequate and insanely insecure, but he made these horrendously horrible feelings disappear like a rabid rabbit into the hat of nevermore, gone, quiet away.

What was it about him that attracted you? He was average looking, or maybe better, moderately successful, sure he was old enough to be your father Ė oh, was that it? Was his age reassuring? His maturity? Maybe subconsciously he filled the voided holes your father failed too, (no sexual innuendo implied here). Now, you had dated ex-COG boys of your own age group, but they were dealing with ex-cult issues and internal turmoil just as you were, struggling to find themselves, many were broke losers, and you decided, quiet correctly, that it probably would be better not to continue doing so, better date someone with a different background. So what went frightfully wrong? Why is he no longer your knight in shining armor, but more like the night in blinding terror? He may or may not have done anything physically or emotionally harmful to you, but thatís almost beside the point because what we need to understand is where you were emotionally when you met him and where you are presently. Merde ŗ la fin!

Itís been a few years since you left the cult, good choice, and now you are worldlier, no longer ghastly gullible, stupidly simple, and disconcertingly dependent on him. Sure, you enjoy the occasional corn-on-the-cob, especially when heís out of town on business and you just canít remember where you hid your dildo, (itís hard to take the country out ofÖblah, blah, blah). But youíre at totally different place in your life now, and heís just a bad habit you confuse as love, you donít need him the way you used too, and you see that he really isnít that great of guy, in all honesty. I mean, after all, he did use you for his gratification, that sweet and rare innocence, his greedy hands and eyes all over you, but I guess the relationship was symbiotic; however, it turned pathetically parasitic, now only one of you in feeding off the other, but which one is it? Itís hard to make the move and leave him because youíve invested so much time with him, you donít hate him, far from it, but you donít love him either, at least not as you once thought you did and would always. And the kids, oh the kids, thatís a whole other issues. I hope you both donít use your children as human yo-yos to get back at each other, back and forth, south and north, as that would really suck a pigís tit. It would constitute emotional cannibalism. The residents in your head disagree on the course of action you should strategically pursue; itís all so confusing. You didnít get the love you needed from the people who where supposed to be your ďfamilyĒ, and you sure as shame arenít getting it here either. Besides, when heís about to go over the hill and kick the bucket, you will be the age he is now, now thatís a funny thought.

ďSo, what the solution Anthony?Ē ďWhat should I do?Ē LOL, who said there was/is a solution??! Thereís just life and death, love and hate. Itís impossible to truly love without hating, for in order to truly love someone or something, something or someone must be hated in equal measure. To have life there necessarily must be death.


She said she it's fine being a queen
And if she had her way
She would kill the old king
ĎCuz heís forgotten how to play


Regards,
Anthony

Reader's comments on this article

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from gfk_au
Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 02:13

(Agree/Disagree?)
This is exactly the story of my first relationship out of TF. My ex would always ask why i was so different. One nite i made the mistake of telling him.......and i thought that if he was going to love me i wanted him to love all of me including my past. how wrong i was. from that moment on things went downhill. everytime we argued "my cult" came up and he would go on how fucked up i was. blaming everything i experienced as a child as my fault. of course he was just a fool immature person, but it definitely scarred me for further relationships.
(reply to this comment)
From Anthony
Wednesday, January 08, 2003, 15:20

(Agree/Disagree?)
gfk_au, sorry to hear that, I hope that in the future you will be able to find someone with more understanding and maturity. Take care.

Regards,
Anthony(reply to this comment
from Tankard
Monday, November 11, 2002 - 18:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm *totally* pissed, and have *no* idea what your article was about dude (whoever you are, man) but I just want to point out that a) County Antrim whiskey whips the llamma's arse and b) "terd" should be spelt "turd".

Otherwise, r0x0r on! Alice Cooper 0wnZ man!
(reply to this comment)
From Jerseygirl
Monday, November 11, 2002, 21:42

(Agree/Disagree?)
well ha-bloody-ha! I'm starting to like you Tanky!(reply to this comment
from Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002 - 16:40

(Agree/Disagree?)
What about you men, do you like older ladies? If yes or no, why and why not?
(reply to this comment)
From DDan
Monday, November 11, 2002, 19:52

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Agree/Disagree?)
Best are girls in their 20s.
Last week I accidentally went out with 38 year old. In Japan girls dont age, there was no way to tell.
Anyways I scrubbed Mr Happy for an hour later that night(reply to this comment
From dave
Monday, November 11, 2002, 17:06

(Agree/Disagree?)
For the record, I like younger ladies. It seems though, older ladies don't seem to require too much from the younger guys and they don't seem to carry too many issues. My opinion is that older ladies are generally greatful (or rather, desperate) to have guy younger than them. Disclaimer: I am not setting myself up as a expert on the issue though. LOL! (reply to this comment
From sarafina
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
I have to disagree with this statement. I like a guy younger then me every now and then but itís certainly not because Iím ďdesperateĒ in general theyíre a bit more lively and open to try new things the can be taught to do things just the way you want and usually will try anything you want. They are not yet set in their ways yet. Plus they have incredible stamina and can keep up better then most older men even ones my own age cause men are at there sexual high at the age 21-25. I will be honest though not always but usually women will go to a younger guy mostly just for play and meaningless sex we donít usually actually consider having a relationship with them.(reply to this comment
From dave
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 15:32

(Agree/Disagree?)
Like we were discussing last night, what I meant by 'older ladies'was 35+, but I know that's too much of a generalization.
Later..(reply to this comment
From Ddan
Monday, November 11, 2002, 19:53

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Agree/Disagree?)
Yes sara and I had a beautiful time(reply to this comment
From LOL
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:45

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Meaningless sex means a lot to me(reply to this comment
From Joe H
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:54

(Agree/Disagree?)
It's not so much that I like older women, I just can't stand the ones my age. Don't get me wrong, they're plenty cute, but after what we've been through we're at least a few years ahead of them, and I really don't want to feel like a parent as they go thru experiences and issues that I dealt with years ago. In addition, older women have more experience, and have less inhibitions and issues about their bodies (for the most part). (reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 17:29

(Agree/Disagree?)
This could also be that the typical former member is mature way beyond their years . . .therefore women your age might be several years behind in their maturity & experience. But this could also be that you're still young :-)(reply to this comment
From Pharmaboy's back
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 07:19

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Agree/Disagree?)
I don't mean to over generalize, but ex-fam chicks can be some of the most naive girls I've met, & could have avoided most of the hardships they went through if whey wouldn't have been so freaking dumb & proud. You'll meet them some years down the line and they'll be giving themselves airs and acting like smart, streetwise "women". they're not all like that, but most I've met do win the gold medal in stupidity! It takes 'em a few years to realize that having more than one sleeping partner/boyfriend is not "cool". They'll end up being considered the village whore...I stay away from ex-fam girls like the plague.(reply to this comment
From Bella
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 15:07

(Agree/Disagree?)
PharmaBOY - I wish to opine, however, I cannot figure out exactly what you are saying. Do you mean to state that us "ex-fam chicks" (ohh love that) could have avoided the hardships we went through in TF if we, quote: "wouldn't have been so freaking dumb & proud." OR, do you mean that we could have avoided hardships SINCE leaving TF if we, again quote: "wouldn't have been so freaking dumb & proud."
Please clarify.(reply to this comment
From pharmaboy
Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 04:19

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, I did over-generalize, for the fun of it and 'cause it's a sensitive topic. I meant after being in the fam.
I never really take myself seriously, and you shouldn't either :-). I could write a book on all the crazy things ex-fam chicks have done/gotten themselves into. Initially I pitied them & tried to help them avoid making utter fools of themselves, but they thought: why take
advice from some fam dude, I'll hang out with the real men of the world. Yes, men that would give you nice colored little pills, screw you, let their friends screw you and you'd think, wow, this is what fun is all about. These people are my friends, we just connected!
I may have left officially a year ago, but I've been living on my own for 10 yrs, going to "system" school & working. Or one chick was riding in my car with me & it had a slight carb problem, chick says: you know, you really shouldn't change gears so much, just keep it on one, it'll drive much better....Their stupidity wasn’t their fault, but hell, at least accept advice from someone who went the same path and you’ll avoid many mistakes…I’m through with playing the good Samaritan, fucking let them learn the hard way! Blaming other people for your problems won’t get you anywhere ( I’m not talking about rape, beatings, etc), you are responsible for your own life & it’s what you make of it. I have met people who you could say had been cheated in life, non-exfam, and they pulled though & refused to let the people that wronged them condition the rest of their life. I also have non-exfam friends that still go on about how difficult their past was & that’s why they can’t make it in life, and it’s a damn bore to be around them. Not all family girls have gone through the same hardships, I’m talking about minor ones, but it’s nice to have everyone feeling for you.
(reply to this comment
From JoeH
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 15:17

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Agree/Disagree?)
hey, speaking of "dumb" (more like ignorant, but I'm just teasing you anyway :-) ) the " is read as "quote," so you didn't need to actually type out the word. Stay cool!(reply to this comment
From Bella
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 15:46

(Agree/Disagree?)
JoeH darling please, I'm not an idiot and neither am I dumb nor ignorant. The person I am dealing with here (that would be Pharmaboy in case you weren't sure) certainly is though. Therefore, because he is such an ignoramus, I felt it imperative that I should include the word "quote" prior to his statement so that he is clear that, yes, it really was something coming from his dirty little mouth.

Thanks for looking out for me though smarty-pants. Imagine the horror if I had heard that from one of my PhD Professors of philosophy!!

Oh, and you "stay cool" too. (Note that in your case, I didn't have to reiterate that the statement was indeed, a quote) ;-)(reply to this comment
From JoeH
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 14:22

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Agree/Disagree?)
Aside from pointing out the pretty obvious fact that you're a creepy, racist, sexist, meth-head, I'd like to ask why you think it's a good idea to discourage sexual liberation in women, thereby making it harder for all of us to get laid? Are you a one-woman, no premarital sex kind of guy?(reply to this comment
From Anaik
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 13:34

(Agree/Disagree?)
I think you should change your screen name to Farmboy's back. I wonder what H. Hefner would think of your comment? (reply to this comment
From Oh My
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 12:52

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Agree/Disagree?)
And what was her name?(reply to this comment
From Anthony
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 12:33

(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, that's refreshingly harsh, no? I think our girls deserve a bit more credit and understanding than that!

Regards,
Anthony(reply to this comment
From DodgyTodger
Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 08:29

(Agree/Disagree?)


"our girls"? - that sounds like a Mo quote "son".

Anyway sorry to say this but most ex Fam girls took a while to learn some basic facts about how not to be labeled a slut.

Here are a few obvious points but you'd be surprised how many girls I know got it sooo wrong

1. when a guy offers you food or drink he wants to "sleep" with you.

2. when a guy offers you a job he wants to "sleep" with you.

3. when a guy offers you drugs he's not just cool, that shit is expensive, he's just making it easier for him to "sleep" with (or in this case violently sodomise) you

4. when a guy tells you you could be a model, he's not only terribly sleazy -he also wants to "sleep" with you

In short - there are no angels sent from heaven to help you along, if you get any attention whatsoever from men realize that the motivation is sex so start from there and make them prove otherwise. - unless of course what your after is a hasty shag in which case go for it!(reply to this comment
From Pharmanimal grunts..
Monday, November 18, 2002, 01:31

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Agree/Disagree?)
You put my thoughts into words, dodgy, it's exactl like that.

Sarafina, Bella and co.: I said it was a sensitive subject for some people, I don't know you but you sure are acting like it is sensitive. Did I hit the nail on the head perhaps? Yessus, don't take things so personally. Get off your fucking high horse.(reply to this comment
From Bella
Monday, November 18, 2002, 02:33

(Agree/Disagree?)
Uhh sorry Pharmaboy but I don't exactly know what you mean about me needing to get off my "fucking high-horse."

Naturally, it is a sensitive subject and that is why I asked you to clarify what you meant by "ex-cult chicks" could have avoided their hardships by not being so "freaking dumb and proud." Now that I know that you meant "since leaving TF," I do not have as big a problem with your view.

There are MANY things that I could have avoided by not being so naive when I first left. But, in all fairness I believe that many of us (boys included) have made mistakes simply because of the way that we were raised. How in the world do you expect someone who was raised in a bubble, to instantaneously know what to do with themselves in the "real world?" Interestingly, I was reading my old diary I had kept during my first days and months out of the family, and believe me, I cringed many a time as I remembered some of the decisions I made concerning such things as men, money, sex, drugs, alcohol, work, friends, everything! I would be lying if I claimed that I "knew exactly what to do, the minute I walked out the door." I cringed as I read, however, because I have since learned those things which are both good and bad for my mental, physical, and psychological well being. Ultimately, isn't that what is important? --Not the mistakes that we make when we first left, but the lessons we have learned (and continue to learn), since leaving?(reply to this comment
From pharmaboy
Monday, November 18, 2002, 06:42

(Agree/Disagree?)
That's true, Bella, It wasn't anyone's fault for not knowing better. Isn't that exactly what should make you extra careful then, realizing your own ignorance once out? I saw this in quite a few ex-fam young people. Maybe it was my brainwashing in the family, but I have always felt the need to help others, not in a material/financial way, but more by being a no-second-motives friend to people I could help from my own background (junkies, manic-depressives & ex-fam). I know when in 6th grade, first time in school, I wished for someone who would "show me the ropes", because I knew how ignorant in the ways of the world I was. What I just don't get is how of 5 "family girls", all of them preferred the hard way. We'd go partying, use responsibly, avoid shady charaters & situations & just have a good time, not regreting any unwise decisions the next day. But hanging out with another ex-fam just wasn't cool enough for them. The rest is history, and they went through alot of shit they could have avoided. When I'd see them some time later when they'd be moaning on how they were mistreated & all they went through, I saw the need for attention & the need to blame their problems on someone/some thing. Similar to a ranting depressive so eager to tell you his/her issues and how they just might end it all(I was like that). I'm writing this plural, not to generalize, but because their behavior patterns were so similar, apart from different times, places, ages, etc. Situations and people do influence you and your outlook on life, but ultimately YOU decide how your life will turn out: by choosing good friends, a positive outlook on the future & most importantly, realizing that you just don't(and never will) know it all: take advice(I tell myself this regularly). I have a friend that suffers form bipolar disorder and when she starts telling me(for the Nth time!) her lifestory and how her mother and fiancee died in the same 3 months, how she was wronged in the past, I'll tell her simply: you're not getting any sympathy from me, just encouragement when you make progress. Others I know blame their current adiction or habit on their hard past, which is no excuse really, that's just the easy way out. Of course this doesn't mean let Zerby & Co off the hook, but don't enjoy being the victim all the attention that goes along with it.

Thee I go ranting again, I also read rob's thread and the comments on it, and this is my thoughts on that thread as well. (reply to this comment
From sarafina
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:26

(Agree/Disagree?)
This is really true Auty I have found that when dating guys too.The maturity level is so low you have to date someone 5 yrs older just to be able to communicate. I find though that guys our age from TF are on allot closer level.(reply to this comment
From Bella
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:48

(Agree/Disagree?)
Don't you think a lot of it has to do with a man's education though? I totally agree with you guys about not being able to relate to men my age, until I started going out and subsequently am about to marry a highly educated man - who is only 2 years my senior. It just seems like an educated man is just a whole lot easier to relate to, regardless of age. There is something about a smart man that is incredibly sexy.
However, if you are just looking for a roll in the hay - then you can just tell the stupid little hottie to shut up and get with it ... or if you are like Anthony, "paint your face and start tossin'" =)(reply to this comment
from dave
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 13:31

(Agree/Disagree?)
Dude, this is great. Are you sure that BA was in IT, or was it Literature? lol. You're brilliant bro..
Later,
Dave
(reply to this comment)
from Anonymous
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 12:56

(Agree/Disagree?)
It is a known fact that women are attracted to older men. When I say older, I don't necessarily mean that a twenty-five year old will date a man who's seventy-three. What I'm saying is that relative to their own age, women, in general, will date men that are a few years older than themselves. So if a woman is twenty, she'll date a man in his thirties. If she's thirty, she'll probably date a man in his forties and so on.

Most women will admit that they want a strong man who can stand his own ground and be confident. Back in the day, this meant an egg fertilizer with blessed genetics who could hunt to feed his family while protecting them from predators.

Of course, today we live in a more civilized society. Women no longer need a mate, hunter or protector (they now have sperm clinics, supermarkets and police officers to do that). But because of her upbringing, a woman still expects a man to provide for his family. She now expects her man to be mature and provide financial stability along with long-term security.

The Romantic Era and current television soap operas have inspired women to seek out men who have the sexual experience to enlighten the consummate. Women want men who have more than just oral sex on their minds; they want men who know every single sensual spot on (and in) their bodies, and who take the time to explore them thoroughly. (this does come with experience and thus age)
All these traits can be found in most men that are eighteen or over. But more often than not, women will associate older men with the capability of providing all the aforementioned traits. The only thing older men need to do is seduce them. Older men are usually more experienced at seduction then younger men. Older men are also more confident then younger men. Ask any women and sheíll tell you that confidence is appealing.

(reply to this comment)
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 14:59

(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know about the older men stuff . . .I'm more into a man that is several years older than me (not more than 5 or so). But nothing in their 40's. Younger boys (than me) are just "boy toys" and I pretty much use them for sexual purposes (they just keep going and going and going) as opposed to securituy with an older man. JMHO.(reply to this comment
From JoeH
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 17:43

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Agree/Disagree?)
Jules already responded to you below. While some of what you've said is true, you're kind of all over the place and should try to arrange your thoughts in a more coherent fashion.

To your mess of pottage I'd like to add something which may be taken as a misogynistic remark: women like to think that they are more mature than the men of their age group, so they date men who are older than they are. Another view is that they want to be dominated, which in some cases is unfortunately quite accurate, and a man who is older than they are is more capable of this.

But while we're criticizing women, what about the men who date younger women? What's going through their minds? I have some ideas about this: insecurity and a need for a power fix. Not to mention shallowness and vanity. They like the respect and worship they get from younger women that an intelligent mature woman their own age would never give them. So they settle for the stupid bimbo who thinks they're something really special, when in reality they've got nothing on the average guy their own age, but they can lord it over the young guys that they have "experience" and "security/stability"

So in conclusion, very few human problems can be defined in sexist, or feminist terms. The reality is that people are idiots, and we do idiotic things.(reply to this comment
From Jules
Monday, November 11, 2002, 13:14

(Agree/Disagree?)
Ok, I think this is about due, and hey Joe, what are friends for?
I propose we open a "Get Joe Into Therapy" fund. With some help he could get a handle on his issues with women, have better luck interacting with them, and possibly even get some. Less sexual frustration equals more happiness and joy all round and less wasted time for everyone else reading this constant flow of sexist comments from him.
We could sell "Get Joe Into Therapy" t-shirts, with all proceeds donated towards helping our friend in need. (reply to this comment
From TimR
Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 01:16

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Agree/Disagree?)
Brilliant idea! Much better than my previous T-shirt concept: "Get Joe into his own Victor camp" (lol)

You could start a web campaign like that girl who couldn't pay her credit card bills. (savekaryn.com) I think this could really catch on, ala "Killroy was here"

The best part would be giving our parents matching "Get Joe into therapy" shirts for Christmas. (reply to this comment
From JoeH
Monday, November 11, 2002, 15:33

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Agree/Disagree?)
lmfao! I think it's a great idea and you're a sweetheart for suggesting it!(reply to this comment
From Sex
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 18:36

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Agree/Disagree?)
Oh come on, women don't date older men because of some misplaced idea that they are more mature than men their own age. No, there is a simple and more carnal reason why we like men who are older. The simple fact is they are better in bed. They know exactly what they are doing. They know how to please a woman. And when you are tired of trying to teach that to a man your own age and just want to have good sex for a change, then you know you can rely on a man with experience.(reply to this comment
From sarafina
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 12:35

(Agree/Disagree?)
Ha Ha exactly...I must know you we think allot alike.(reply to this comment
From Joe H
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 19:15

(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm 22, and I think you should meet me before you making sweeping generalizations.(reply to this comment
From blah blah blah blhablahhhhhh
Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 01:24

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Agree/Disagree?)
!!!!(reply to this comment
From Anthony
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 18:45

(Agree/Disagree?)
If older men are so much better in bed, why is viagra so aggressively marketed to them? Or have I just answer my own question? Old grandpas are better in bed because they canít get it up, canít attain physical pleasure themselves, so they concentrated on the womanís needs exclusively, right?

Regards,
Anthony
(reply to this comment
From TimR
Monday, November 11, 2002, 15:38

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Agree/Disagree?)
A older man can take viagra, and have the phyisical performance of a 18 year old. An 18 year old cannot take a pill and have have the maturity or experience of the 40 year old. That's the difference.

(reply to this comment
From Sex
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:33

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Agree/Disagree?)
Alright Tim R.!! You know what you are talking about. I date a 40 yr. old and he is in great shape, runs everyday, looks likes he's 23 year-old, and has absolutely no problem with the "physical performance of an 18 year old," and, he doesn't take anything. I think the idea of "old" is changing these days with people taking better care of themselves, living healthy, eating right, and exercising. But of course he has the maturity and experience of a 40-year-old. (reply to this comment
From Joe H
Monday, November 11, 2002, 17:49

(Agree/Disagree?)
so how does Mr Mature feel about dating a girl whose maturity level is such that she goes by the screen name "Sex"? I guess the answer to that is kind of obvious, but hey if you really are a nyphomaniac/sex addict, can I have your phone number?(reply to this comment
From Sex
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 14:55

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Agree/Disagree?)
Hey Joe, I've been dating "Mr. Mature" for 3 years. lol. The reason I chose the screen name Sex was because of the content of the converstation. But, hey on the Nympho part, well..hmmm I'll have to think about that.(reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:02

(Agree/Disagree?)
Haven't you collected enough numbers from the girls on this site? LOL!(reply to this comment
From JoeH
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:48

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Agree/Disagree?)
are you jealous that I still haven't called you?(reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:53

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah, you wish you had my number! HA HA HA!(reply to this comment
From JoeH
Monday, November 11, 2002, 18:56

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touche. hmm, now I'm going to see what I can do about getting it(reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 19:09

(Agree/Disagree?)
Uhhh . . .Ohhhh . . .I'm eating my words now!

I think I must be really bored to be answering this . . .HA HA HA!(reply to this comment
From JoeH
Monday, November 11, 2002, 15:51

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Agree/Disagree?)
young guys, take note! apparently we all need to get down to the local library and read up on the complex topic of women's bodies, because we can't very well permit old guys to kick our butts in that department now can we?

That being said, if we're doing a shitty job, just tell us how to do it right! The lack of communication is the real problem. If I'm with a woman who's sucking in more than one sense of the word, I'll give her some pointers.(reply to this comment
From Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:27

(Agree/Disagree?)
Old guys are given to much credit for their years of "experience". As far as I'm concerned, and that's pretty far, they're chained eagle, missinonary position style foggies.

Old Guy: "ugh,you want me to put my tongue where???...blush, blush, schock, schock. I thought tossing salad is what you do in the kitchen" (reply to this comment
From -----
Monday, November 11, 2002, 20:45

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Anthony, hearing you talk about sex makes me want to puke.
Has anyone else noticed that the people making the biggest issues about this are the ones who haven't gotten any and can't because they're so god damn into themselves. (reply to this comment
From Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002, 21:10

(Agree/Disagree?)
If hearing me talk about sex makes you want to put, I'd hate to see what happens to you when you see me gettimg my groove on.

Has anyone else noticed that the people making the biggest issues about Anthony are the ones who haven't gotten any of him and can't because they're so god damn into themselves.(?)
(reply to this comment
From ----
Monday, November 11, 2002, 23:02

(
Agree/Disagree?)
"puke" Anthony not "put." I'd also hate to see what happens to me if I saw you getting your groove on. I'd probably go into convulsions. Anthony, I don't want any of you now, nor will I ever because I'm so god damn into myself and only want whats good for me.(reply to this comment
From Anthony
Friday, November 22, 2002, 11:35

(Agree/Disagree?)
Sorry, didnít mean to make you puke, stumble & strain on Ant, I mean an ant, I mean a gnat.(reply to this comment
From Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002, 21:11

(Agree/Disagree?)
getting*(reply to this comment
From Sex
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:37

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Obviously you are young and this conversation is pushing your buttons. Hhmmm I wonder why? Actually, from my experience, it's usualy young men that like that Missionary Position. Older men have had time to come up with a whole slew of different ways to Do It. Oh yes, the Years to perfect them.(reply to this comment
From Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002, 17:16

(Agree/Disagree?)
Pushing my buttons? LOL! Don't you mean "cranking my shaft(s)?"(reply to this comment
From ----
Monday, November 11, 2002, 20:47

(
Agree/Disagree?)
UGH!(reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 17:26

(Agree/Disagree?)
You have more than one? Wow, this just keeps getting better!(reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:32

(Agree/Disagree?)
Wooohooo . . .glad I'll get to meat . . .I mean met you soon! HE HE HE!(reply to this comment
From Bella
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:30

(Agree/Disagree?)
Damn Tony - I didn't know you were so kinky!(reply to this comment
From Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:36

(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, for the record, Anthony doesn't toss salad! :p(reply to this comment
From Bella
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:40

(Agree/Disagree?)
Lies!! (reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:38

(Agree/Disagree?)
darn! (reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
Tongue exercises . . .and that's all I'll say about that.(reply to this comment
From Bella
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:41

(Agree/Disagree?)
Amen dear sista!!

But seriously, does age really matter? -- many an older man is as clueless in bed as many young men. But, not all young men are clueless .... Isn't it really all about chemistry between two people ... (reply to this comment
From Anthony
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:47

(Agree/Disagree?)
Leave it to Bella to bring everything back in to perspective, hehe. BTW, anybody ever heard of the mercenary position? Just remember to wear lots of face paint.(reply to this comment
From Bella
Monday, November 11, 2002, 17:24

(Agree/Disagree?)
Face paint now too? What kind of animal are you?!?! =)(reply to this comment
From Auty
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:44

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeap, chemistry has a lot to do with it. But my younge boytoys were awesome in bed and so were the older, mature men. But with the older ones you get a great meal after the fact! HA HA HA!(reply to this comment
From Bella
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:48

(Agree/Disagree?)
ha ha ha ... Yeah and champagne before the fact instead of beer!(reply to this comment
From Joe H
Monday, November 11, 2002, 16:52

(Agree/Disagree?)
yeah, I think you lovely ladies summed it up quite well, thanks also to Tony for his perspective.(reply to this comment
From Sex
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 20:43

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Obviously you are thinking of something a lot older than I was. I said young women like men older than them, not grandpa's. Viagra isn't targeted to people in Hugh Hefner's age group. I guess I was just speaking of men a little older than you boys.(reply to this comment
From sarafina
Tuesday, November 12, 2002, 12:39

(Agree/Disagree?)
Ha ha she called you "boys" lol This is great! Your the expert girl!(reply to this comment
From Sex
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 20:46

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Sorry, I meant Viagra IS marketed to people in Hugh Hefner's age group. Not men in their 30's & 40's(reply to this comment
From Joe H
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 19:00

(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree with both of you(reply to this comment
From research
Sunday, November 10, 2002, 15:22

(
Agree/Disagree?)
You say "Women want men who have more than just oral sex on their minds; they want men who know every single sensual spot on (and in) their bodies, and who take the time to explore them thoroughly...All these traits can be found in most men that are eighteen or over."

Where do you live?(reply to this comment
From PompousJohn
Monday, November 11, 2002, 07:18

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, these traits (I would all them SKILLS) CAN be found in 18 year olds, but usually AREN'T.
Someone asked why, if 40 year old men are so much better in bed, why Viagra is so agressively marketed to them? well there are two very good reasons which fit within the theory that older men are better in bed.

1) While older men can invariably sustain an erection longer, and have generally overcome any tendency to premature ejaculation, they will rarely, without some kind of chemical aid be able to enjoy sex more than once or twice in a night.

2) In the case where said 40 year old has been with the same partner for a number of years, he may need an extra boost in order to be as turned on about her as he was when they were both younger.(reply to this comment
From LOL
Monday, November 11, 2002, 15:39

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Whatever reason you give your wife for needing viagra, I suggest you DON'T use that last one. (reply to this comment
from Tea
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 05:41

(Agree/Disagree?)
Good work, bro.
(reply to this comment)
from MercyCan'tBeBotheredToLogIn
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 03:12

(Agree/Disagree?)
THE MAN KNOWS!!!
(reply to this comment)
from
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 03:11

(Agree/Disagree?)

(reply to this comment)
from Tim R
Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 00:21

(Agree/Disagree?)
Well said Tony! Sometimes the answer is that there is no answer.
(reply to this comment)
from C'est Moi
Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 23:06

(Agree/Disagree?)
Antonius, for verily thou shalt...whatever. Aaargh!!
(reply to this comment)
from Jules
Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 22:51

(Agree/Disagree?)
Damn you Anthony.
How the hell did you know this stuff?
Asking the tough questions is fun, answering them is not so much.
(reply to this comment)
from JoeH
Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 19:55

(Agree/Disagree?)
brilliant!
(reply to this comment)

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