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Getting On : Lovers

A Question for the Ladies.

from johnson45 - Friday, September 22, 2006
accessed 1897 times

Have any of you had a guy walk up to you at work, in a bar, or in the mall somewhere, and you knew they were about to hit on you?

For the most part, when a guy hits on me, he is in my age range or close to it. More often than not the guy is not nasty or inappropriate or anything, but it just gets under my skin. For some reason, my first reaction is oh my god, a pervert. Im thinking he's a weird "Uncle" or something. I guess I carry some emotional baggage when it comes to men. Im distrustful and think at first anyways, that they are creepy perverts. Then I think about it a little more, and I realize, they're probably just looking for a date. I am not a 7 year old child any more, so they're not being inappropriate. Has anyone else had this problem?

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from
Monday, September 25, 2006 - 15:06

(Agree/Disagree?)
Hh my god..thats just how I was for the longest time..
(reply to this comment)
from johnson45
Monday, September 25, 2006 - 14:34

(Agree/Disagree?)

It's interesting what everyone here has been saying about emotional baggage. I had another question. Since most of us who were raised in TF have some sort of emotional baggage or whatever you want to call it, do you even want to be around others that are like you? Would we just end up bringing each other down?

For me, I have to take long breaks from this site, because I can only take so much of talking and thinking about TF. It can be therapeutic to sort of re-live my past because it helps me to come to terms with the way I was raised, but after a while it just makes me depressed.
(reply to this comment)

From smashingirl
Tuesday, September 26, 2006, 11:16

(Agree/Disagree?)
I get what you mean. I can only go on this site every few months. I tend to avoid other former members. Sometimes I get the urge to look up old friends but I always end up flaking out on them. It just gets depressing.(reply to this comment
From afflick
Monday, September 25, 2006, 15:05

(Agree/Disagree?)

My best friend is a former member. I have a wide circle of friends, but those who haven't grown up in my situation can't really understand the totality of who I am as much as those who share my background. That being said, those that I consider great friends from TFI are very specific individuals. That is to say, not everyone on this site would want to be my friend nor would I want them all as friends. We are different people with different goals and personalities and cannot be expected to all like each other.

When I came to this site in 2002, I didn't realize this. I was estatic to find a place on the web where I could find others like myself. Our historic is, thankfully, pretty rare in this world and you don't exactly run across ex-SGAs every day in every circumstance. Yet, after about a year, I realized that while we had much in common in our past, we may not all have the same ties in our future.

That being said, I do appreciate those who have touched upon the same experiences as I have had. I have many dear friends in my "inner circle" who came from TFI, and I cheer them on in their accomplishments and they cheer me. No one else really knows what we went thorugh to get where we are, so that's important and validating.(reply to this comment

from loch
Monday, September 25, 2006 - 10:01

(Agree/Disagree?)

I have realised something like this just recently.

I'm 26, so naturaly I'm starting to get hit on by 30-35 yr olds. It was freaking me out, I think I offended a few people with my obvious brushoffs. I have had to start telling myself that these are not dirty "uncles" hitting on an eight yr old.

Mental note Heidi, you are no longer 10. Jesus fucking christ!
(reply to this comment)

From baby
Friday, September 29, 2006, 13:03

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Agree/Disagree?)

Hell, im 22 and i always get hit on by 30-35 yr. olds! In fact, most of my friends are in their 30's, the guy im sortta dating is 33, my ex-bf is 29, the one before that was again 33! I guess in a way im sick of childish behaviors in a relationship, and am trying to find a little more matureness in guys, but then again, ive come to the conclusion that: BOYS WILL ALWAYS BE JUST THAT... BOYS!!! no matter there age! FUCK'EM!!!

Maybe this is a reflection of what y'all were talking about earlier, us being "fucked up" and all, well fuck it, who gives a shit?(reply to this comment

from lisa
Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 16:26

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

When I became 'of age', I felt much the same way. I had to completely redefine how I related to everyone that came near me; instead of playing games and then despising anyone who touched, I had to learn to approach them as equals. I also had to learn that I had a choice, that I didn't have to say yes to everyone that asked, and that I had to take responsibility for my own actions. I found that I had to change a lot of what was in me, change who I was and how I thought about sex and relationships. I don't think it every really ends, you are continually faced with choices and I just try to consciously fight against my instinct to make self-destructive choices and instead try to be 'healthy' well adjusted and happy.
(reply to this comment)

From Removed
Sunday, September 24, 2006, 17:00

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From afflick
Monday, September 25, 2006, 05:04

(Agree/Disagree?)

I understand what lisa meant about having to redefine boundaries once we get out on our own. However, rather than considering us "fucked up," I like to think that we are less naive, more leary of strange men than our counterparts who grew up in more stable environments.

After all, a lot of guys who approach women who are strangers to them have sexual intentions. Being able to filter these guys quickly is an asset. One of my friends, who was also an ex-SGA girl, was critical of how I blew off a lot of the guys who approached me. Yet, five years later, I am married to a really supportive, genuine good guy and she is struggling through one bad relationship after another. (reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 07:32

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Monday, September 25, 2006, 07:54

(Agree/Disagree?)
Speak for yourself! The last thing I want to do is start describing myself as 'fucked up'!(reply to this comment
From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 08:10

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Monday, September 25, 2006, 08:41

(Agree/Disagree?)
Perhaps it's a case of definitions then, in my view it's quite a leap to go from "having baggage", or perhaps not being entirely "normal" (whatever that is) to being "fucked up".(reply to this comment
From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 09:18

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Monday, September 25, 2006, 09:33

(Agree/Disagree?)
... nothing to do with my self esteem or being offended, I simply do not consider it to be an accurate description of myself, and as such I consider the connotation to be a negative one. I would also not choose to describe anyone else on this site as "fucked up". However, if you choose to use that term, then I respect your right to do so and agree to disagree.(reply to this comment
From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 09:36

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 09:41

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Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Monday, September 25, 2006, 10:50

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Similar to what Vixie has said below, I believe that being "fucked up" or not depends not on my experiences, but rather on how I choose to respond to them. I quite simply do not care to give anyone the satisfaction of allowing them to "fuck me up".

"Normal", as regards to human attitudes or behaviour, in my view has no notable meaning. We are all individuals, and have unique points of view and characteristics. While these are doubtless influenced by our experiences, I for one will never allow myself to become a victim to circumstance to the extent that they in any way define me. I choose how I react, and take responsibility for my actions - perhaps I'm old-fashioned in doing so, but that's the way I've chosen to live my life.(reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 11:37

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Big Sister
Monday, September 25, 2006, 22:35

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Hi, I'm an outsider! I have, as you say, "received people after leaving TF." Yet of all the Family members, former members, born-in members, etc that I have met over the years, the most F'd up people of all are the ones who joined TF in the first place and never left.

I understand that you all may feel less than normal-or worse- at times, but remember that you NOTICED that you were in a cult and got yourself out. That's very "normal". And without having even met most of you, I can add brave and resourceful to my assessment of everyone here. When you're being hard on yourselves, at least keep these things in mind.(reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Tuesday, September 26, 2006, 06:51

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I think the key reaction to gauge by - although one which is hard, if not impossible, to quantify - is that of someone who is not aware of our background. Judgements such as 'fucked up' or 'normal' should be based on current behaviours and actions, not past experiences - how can you ever classify someone as 'normal' (a term which I have already said has no meaning to me) if you start from a basis that they are not because of past experiences?

While we are ourselves aware of the additional challenges we have faced in integrating, every individual has faced their own set of challenges in creating their current identity, and as such it would be inappropriate to evaluate us based on our history, without doing the same for every individuals' own unique upbringing.(reply to this comment

From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 11:43

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

'However, I do believe that if an "outsider" was to give (most of us) a unbiased and honest assessment on our current standing after our involvement in the cult; that they would deem us as "fucked up". They might not say it to our faces, but I know this for a fact from speaking with relatives (including my own) who have received people after leaving The Family. We can be positive (and that is awesome, commendable, and probably imperative to our well being) but come on, lets be honest for a minute.'

Again, I'm sorry but I just don't find that my experiences reflect what you say here. As it happens, everyone that I know on a meaningful level (including my fellow students and all my tutors) has full knowledge of my background in TF and I have never got the vibe from any of them that I am a freak or irreparably fucked up. Maybe this has more to do with social context, as it seems that those of you who live in the US encounter this reaction more often. Britain has a long and proud tradition of appreciating eccentricity, which doesn't necessarily denote being screwed up, either, it just means being different.

(reply to this comment

From smashingirl
Tuesday, September 26, 2006, 11:22

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Um yeah, we're most definantly fucked up. It doesn't always show and I don't always feel it but it's there. It can crop up in stupid areas like how I hate scrambled eggs. Or it can pop up in other areas where even when I'm living with someone else and sharing my life with them, I still want my own room. I'm completely obsessive about my privacy. Not every part of our lives is affected and most of us have learned to be "normal" but it's always there. (reply to this comment
From Removed
Wednesday, September 27, 2006, 23:37

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Thursday, September 28, 2006, 02:35

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Okay, I've given you the benefit of the doubt because I really don't disagree with what you're saying, but this is getting irritating now. I resent your attitude and I resent the notion that you seem to have that anyone who does not feel exactly as you do is 'not being honest'. You have no right to speak for anyone but yourself and you have no right to demand that everyone classify themselves the way that you choose to classify yourself. Please stop saying 'we' all the time and stop looking at 'us' as a collective entity! You can talk about how YOU feel, you can call YOURSELF fucked up to your heart's content, but kindly stop allowing your self-identity to colour the way you see everyone else. We are not all exactly like each other simply because we shared a common upbringing - We are still individuals and we are still, each of us, unique with a unique set of challenges and difficulties to overcome. OF COURSE many things will be similar and many of us will identify with each other's problems, but goodness me, I do not want someone else dictating how I MUST feel simply because he or she can claim to have some knowledge, however intimate, of my upbringing!

And before you come back at me with some quip about a river in Egypt, I will make it clear that yes, I DO realise that I have many issues. I do acknowledge that certain aspects of my personality are directly related to the screwed-up existence that was foisted upon me, I do understand that I am definitely damaged. This is not a question of glossing over the truth in an effort to escape from it, not at all. I simply don't feel that the stolen child is the whole of me.

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Thursday, September 28, 2006, 02:44

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Thursday, September 28, 2006, 02:49

(Agree/Disagree?)

Heheheh, don't worry, babe! I am not taking this any more seriously than I take anything at all that I talk about. Like I said, I don't even really disagree with you, I know that the cult messed us up. But I dislike having the victim's role thrust upon me.

(reply to this comment

From vixen
Thursday, September 28, 2006, 02:58

(Agree/Disagree?)

I will also add that I have no problem with your opinion, it's just that when you say things like, 'finally someone who is being honest', the clear implication is that anyone who does not share your view is not being honest. That is what triggered my response.

I am done with this subject now, though. I don't want to argue with you and I certainly don't want to come across as if I dislike you, so from now on I will agree to disagree with you.

:-)

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Thursday, September 28, 2006, 03:46

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Big Sister
Monday, September 25, 2006, 22:43

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes, this may have to do with location in the US. The coasts are tolerant, even welcoming of diverstiy. The south, the midwest and some other interior and rural places, have their charms, but are less welcoming. Sometimes downright hostile. Your mileage may vary.(reply to this comment
From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 11:58

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From solemn
Monday, September 25, 2006, 12:54

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Many of us (At least I hope it's not just me) are like a bicycle that has been painted many times over, most look fine on the surface, but the more you scratch away the surface the more you begin to see things that were not apparent at first glance. Many of these layers you could consider faults or flaws, and some you might even consider advantages. But this is also true for humanity in general because while we have a cult to thank for years the of deprogramming we have had to do, many people had an abusive father, a drunk mother, a pervert for an uncle, parents who never validated them, or found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, and as a result have suffered long term emotional damage. And then there are the ones who had every advantage and opportunity yet can never seem to pull it together.

Perhaps itís the strange circumstances we share, that as a complete experience become something thoroughly unique. Are we worse off then the average person, are we better off? I donít know. The problem is that you canít rate your problems on a curve. Eh, I donít know where this is going anymore. I would love to feel normal, but I donít even know what that means.(reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 13:40

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Well said. So many variables...

Maybe I'll end on this note:

I may well be fucked up but all in all it's not too bad ;-)

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 13:20

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vix
Monday, September 25, 2006, 12:29

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Heh. Of course they may well have a personal opinion on my past, but whether or not it is positive is of little concern to me.

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 12:00

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 09:57

(Agree/Disagree?)

Actually I would concur with Dom in this instance. I don't see myself as severely fucked up, and I actually think damaged is a much more appropriate term for myself. But then, I didn't have anywhere near as severe experiences in the cult as some others. When it comes right down to it, though, I have no idea how others see me, and as such I might well be considered utterly and completely fucked up. I choose not to view myself that way because I am the one who chooses what is or is not relevant when it comes to my own being, but this doesn't mean that my view is necessarily correct.

This is a very interesting subject and it's such a shame that we can't all get together and actually discuss it.

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 11:17

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 11:27

(Agree/Disagree?)

Well of course I am not at all offended or upset by what you are saying. I agree with you, in a sense, but I am mainly trying to play devil's advocate. It *is* a very complex issue and it is also not helped by the fact that our determination to overcome the difficulties placed in our path by our upbringing often causes us to want to disown the parts of our character that are directly resultant of our background. I fully realise that like you I have many emotional, relationship, trust, social and parenting issues, and many more ;-). I've suffered from severe depression and one side of me is *very* fragile. Certainly there is no question, as I've already said, that I *do* manifest maladaptive thought and behaviour, at least on some levels. However, what I take issue with in this instance is the implied message that I am reading into your comments (which may, of course not be what you mean to say at all), which is that our problems are SO much more severe than the average 'normal' person. I don't believe that there is any such thing as a truly well-adjusted person.

(reply to this comment

From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 11:33

(Agree/Disagree?)

Heh, I am going to amend that real quick before anyone calls me out on it. Rather than this:

'I don't believe that there is any such thing as a truly well-adjusted person.'

I will say this:

I don't believe that there is any such thing as a person who is wholly and completely healthy psychologically.

The ideal is to be well-adjusted, which to my mind means some give and take between function and dysfunction.

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 11:52

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Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 12:03

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

True. However, all people are people and if we can be compared to anyone then we can be compared to everyone. At the end of the day it does not matter if there are ten people like me or ten thousand, or if a hundred of them were raised in similar circumstances or a million. What I am saying is that we are only 'fucked up' or 'well-adjusted' in comparison to something. I dare say that at any time that I am walking down a busy high street in this country, I will compare pretty favourably with the majority of the people that I pass. This may be a delusional position, it may not be, but either way it has no real relevance, because it is a position based on criteria that are subjective and impossible to qualify to any real degree.

(reply to this comment

From AndyH
Monday, September 25, 2006, 09:50

(Agree/Disagree?)

Good question, I've submitted a poll, check it out. (reply to this comment

From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 07:50

(Agree/Disagree?)

This be the verse

They fuck you up, your mom and dad
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can
And don't have any kids yourself.

;-)

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 07:58

Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 08:02

(Agree/Disagree?)

Sara, I wondered if you could help me with this:

What was the name of the experiment, or the name of the psychologist who lead it, where a group of perfectly healthy people were placed in a psychiatric ward or an insane asylum (can't remember which) in order to see how their (perfectly normal) actions and reactions would be interpreted by the staff?

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 08:22

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 08:26

(Agree/Disagree?)

No, but thanks.

This is one where a group of people were placed in an institution for the mentally ill, and none of the doctors, nurses or even the Director of the place knew that the individuals were perfectly healthy. The results were frightening as no matter what they said or did to try to prove their normality, their actions were read in the context of mental disease.


(reply to this comment

From Ne Oublie
Monday, September 25, 2006, 08:44

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I haven't heard of this study, but I'm not surprised in the least by the results. Only serves to reinforce my prejudices regarding the psychiatric profession.(reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 09:04

(Agree/Disagree?)

Yes, quite. It was fascinating stuff. I'll have to root around in my textbooks and try to locate it.

(reply to this comment

From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 10:13

(Agree/Disagree?)

Here's a link.

http://www.pineforge.com/newman6study/resources/rosenhan1.htm

(reply to this comment

From vixen
Monday, September 25, 2006, 10:47

(Agree/Disagree?)
'Rosenhan didn't conclude that the staffs at these hospitals were incompetent or dishonest. In fact, he argued that there was no conscious effort to misconstrue the evidence to fit the label. They were doing their jobs effectively.
Rather, Rosenhan reasoned, the labels were so powerful that they profoundly affected the way information was processed and perceived. Had the same behaviors been observed in a different context, they no doubt would have been interpreted in an entirely different fashion.'
The thng is, abnormality is largely a social judgement, and therefore, 'fucked up' can only ever be a relative term with heavy reliance on value judgement. I find the whole subject of psychological disorder vs individual freedom very interesting. There's no question that most if not all of us have our definite triggers and that we survive in our day to day lives by engaging in behaviours that could well be described as compulsive, dysfunctional, maladaptive or self-destructive/self-defeating. But I would still hesitate to be quite so negative regarding our individual psychological states.
(reply to this comment
From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 10:39

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From Removed
Monday, September 25, 2006, 10:39

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[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
from placebo
Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 14:37

(Agree/Disagree?)
Look at his shoes, if he's got good shoes there's a good chance that he might like Morrissey...although then he's probably gay.
(reply to this comment)
From vixen
Sunday, September 24, 2006, 14:42

(Agree/Disagree?)

And also look at the size of his feet. If he's got big feet he's probably got a big, oh wait, I don't even know if that's true...

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Sunday, September 24, 2006, 16:20

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Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
From vixen
Sunday, September 24, 2006, 16:31

(Agree/Disagree?)

Heh. Well thank you, I guess I should start looking at noses instead, or is it hands? Damn it's all so confusing.

(reply to this comment

From Removed
Sunday, September 24, 2006, 16:56

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Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request] (reply to this comment
from vixen
Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 09:44

(Agree/Disagree?)

No.
(reply to this comment)

from Removed
Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 07:24

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
[Removed at author's request]
(reply to this comment)

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