Getting On : Lovers
LOVE OR LUST??
from AUSSIE - Wednesday, December 18, 2002
accessed 2201 times
LOVE OR LUST???
LUST OR LOVE?
I believe that many family teens don’t know the true concept of love regarding relationships. All their lives they have been taught to associate love with sex, put out and you’re a real revolutionary, be prudent and you’re labelled an ‘old bottle’, selfish and unloving. The consequence of this teaching is that we have been led to believe that love means sex, whereas in truth, the two are not intrinsically related. As a result, many young people have become calloused to the true meaning of what it means to really love someone, ‘…man…shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh…’ not ‘ men shall cleave to MANY woman…and all members of their household and anyone else they can get their hands on….’. What happens when two people in TF fall in love?? Someone ends up getting hurt!! Why? Because Berg taught that jealousy, of your partner fucking someone else, is wrong, oh he twisted every scripture he could find, but what happened to ‘. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife.’ The family teaches love of sex rather than love. How can young people in the family ever appreciate the true meaning of love? I think that when Berg said “what everybody needs is love”, what he meant to say was “what everybody needs is SEX, and lots of it, and the younger the better and if it hurts, GOOD, and if it fucks their head, they’re selfish!! They need it!!” Ok, scenario, sex, and then what? No feeling other than orgasm?? What happens after, monogamy? Hell no! You carry on like nothing happened, looking for whom you want to shag next. I was in contact with a young family adult recently in England; somehow we approached the topic of sex. Anyway, she said something along the lines of ‘I don’t get the whole Jealousy thing!!’ I thought, well FUCK ME!! Are you that calloused that you really, truly, honestly don’t get it!! God created man and women to join together, as one, not as many!! So when you fuck some guy or girl, and you find that they actually have feelings for you, above sexual arousal, you do what? You ‘don’t get it?’ In my humble opinion, the LUSTFUL PROPHET has succeeded in producing LUSTFUL LITTLE OFFSRPING, I don’t blame the kids, I blame ‘Dad’! Hey, we are the cookie cut generation, we are only as good as the cookie cutter, unless of course, the individual decides to act like one and make a choice.
Berg was certainly a pervert, his depraved teachings not only contradicted the Bible, but some of them were downright satanic! His fascination for the Occult, his lust for incestuous sex, his paedophilic tendencies, just about everything about him reeks! And Zerby? Oh boy!! She is just accelerating at full steam! She has ditched the whole ‘downward spiral’ and gone for the bungee jump!! In fact, I believe that she is more accountable than Berg.
Berg may have taught some truth, but the vast majority of it was downright wrong!! Morally and Scripturally He liked to parallel himself with Solomon of old, I say, RIGHT ON! Solomon was gifted, but what happened, he ended up as some satanic idol worshiper, practicing all sorts of perversion. You got something right Berg; maybe you were like Solomon, minus the gifted part.
IS TF EVEN CHRISTIAN?
I think that, once again, Berg may have misinterpreted the part that says `…love thy neighbour…on this commandment hang all the law…’ Did he really think that this boiled down to fuck thy neighbour…. and everyone else…any don’t worry about the law…I mean shit, isn’t it obvious that Berg missed the point. Take Mary Magdalene for example, did Jesus say ‘…well done good and faithful servant…’, no, he said ‘…your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more.’ Doesn’t this imply that by shagging everyone in the neighbourhood she was in fact sinning, but TF teaches that this is, in fact, exemplary behaviour. What a load of crap, this is LUST, nothing to do with love or Christianity.
Man over god?
Ok, this just proves my point. TF is not Christian, I don’t claim to be some expert on the bible, but didn’t Jesus say, somewhere, that `I am the way…no man cometh unto the father but by me…’ or did I miss the part that says, ‘…and by Berg as well…follow him and I shall grant thee everlasting life…and if he dies, follow his deranged accomplice Zerby…’ Any organization that claims to be Christian, that puts the word of a man over the word of god is obviously delusional and ultimately PAGAN!! The word the word the word??
Now this is defiantly bordering on the occult. Zerby has really outdone herself here. Next thing you know, Zerby will be proclaiming in another ‘divine?’ revelation that men are gods and god is man, or something else equally prophetic.
Now this just topped it off for me, what the fuck!!!! How sick is this shit, I mean where in the bible does it say to fuck Jesus in the spirit. Fancy having young people, male or female, saying shit like what Zerby is preaching, I WANT YOUR PENIS???!! It’s downright perverted! She is intentionally perverting the minds of innocent children. GOD DAMM HER TO HELL!! Where does she get off!! Does she really honestly believe that this is Godly, or is she intentionally tuning people towards depravity and Satanism? I mean hello, it’s not rocket science!! Fuck!!
BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM??
So what exactly are the fruits of Berg’s creation? Take a look at his legacy, TF!! Not to mention the children, the abuse, ok I remember the part, ‘spare the rod’ but I seem to forget the part that mentions ‘spare the duct tape, paper clips and the penis…spoil the child’, the techniques used in our upbringing were undoubtedly perverted, incredibly sardonic and intrinsically cultic. I mean where does teaching FONDLING MINORS fit into a natural and godly upbringing, Berg liked to say that ‘if god made’em able to enjoy it…’ I say you FUKIN PEDIFILE!! I seem to remember something about ‘harm one hair…and it were better that I milestone were hung about your neck…cast into the sea etc….’, I say, if for nothing else, BERG, you WILL BURN IN HELL! Ok so the fruit doesn’t smell good, what does this say for ZERBY??
Moral depravity abounds in TF, no argument there. But what about the debasement of human spirit, the humiliation and psychological abuse inflicted on both children and adults. Show me the part in the Bible, which they claim to follow, that’s says it’s OK to beat a 12 year old until their black and blue, begging for mercy and on the verge of unconsciousness. The Victor camps were designed with only one purpose in mind, to break the human spirit, remove all traces of individualism and destroy free will. If God made man to choose, shouldn’t he be allowed to do so?
More like false prophecy, the ramblings of a lunatic intentionally passed off as the undisputed word of God. Hey, I remember now, something about ‘…many false prophets (prophetesses?) shall come in my name and deceive many…’, hey Zerby, if the shoe fits…..!! Naturally, if the torrent of prophecies isn’t enough, you can always twist some scripture, just to confirm that everything you say is truth?
I really would like to know if Zerby really believes half the shit she prints, hell, it makes no difference either way, but it would be interesting.
Control of people’s minds
Ok, so if you wanted to control a group of people what would you need to do? Firstly I suppose you would have to somehow convince them that they need you i.e. I am the end time prophet, follow me and I will save you. Next you would need to keep their attention, by whatever means possible…..hey I have an idea, lets get them so drunk on sex that they can’t bear the thought of leaving, I mean where else will they get this ‘freedom’? Lets face it, if you can control something as intimate as someone’s SEX LIFE, your well on your way to controlling their mind.
Of course, when the novelty wears off, you would need to reassert yourself as a true leader, a real man of faith. So…I suppose prophecy would be ideal to reassure your followers that they are, in fact, following the true ‘anointed one’. Of course this fabulous technique may also be used to verify any outlandish or questionable doctrines… ‘…Thus saith the Lord, you need my penis!!…Have more sex or be dammed to the fires of hell..’ etc..
Isolate them, I mean hey; if they cant see they shan't know? Simple really! Once you have them convinced, all you need to do is repeat, and don’t forget to maximize your effect by keeping their attention focused on you! This means strict control over any ‘anti-Christ’ propaganda.
Demonstrate power and authority, it is quite easy to do honestly. You know, create an atmosphere of self-importance, make some big decisions, sacrifice a few lambs, and WHALLA! You are in control.
Discredit any detractors, hey; if they believe anyone else but you, then you’ve lost control over their minds, allowing them to perhaps decide that maybe your wrong. It is therefore imperative that you discredit all detractors to ensure that your followers understand that they, of course, are total liars and only want to see all the people they grew up with locked away behind bars and tortured etc, Your disciples must not believe, even for a second, that these sewer rats are telling the truth, and if they are your children, all the more reason to doubt them!!
I pity the people still in TF, ‘there are none so blind as those who will not see’, when will they WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES, or in this case the SHIT that is beneath their noses. If they only stepped out of the circle and looked inside perhaps they would see the whole picture. DAMMIT, if they are so determined to please God, why don’t they find out exactly what he has to say, instead of blindly following some insane half-witted, delusional, semi-humanoid pervert and be further drawn into the debaucheries that is TF. They were given brains, why not use them!! I say, choose LOVE not LUST!!
p.s. note that I personally do believe in God and the Bible. Persons who do not entertain a similar ideology may care to disagree with some or all of the above statement.
Reader's comments on this article
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Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 09:54
The fact that most fam young people are so institutionalized (at least the ones I know) should be the primary issue. The fam seems to love it that it's young people esp in the 3rd world scared shitless in moving out because the fam style of being laid back, getting 3 squares and sex with no questions (cuz it's a commandment) has made them complacent and lacking the personal drive you need to do well. plus the fact that out there is well the fucking 3rd world where u won't survive too well on your own. Lot's of ex-fam do prettty well considering the lack of any normal backgrounds eg education, because they have learned to set goals, plan, and perservere. As a green ex-member I really don't recallin the fam hearing any sort of postive testimonies of people who didn't get involved in the underworld, druggies, jailed,became trash whores, or even worse committed sucide, and hearing these stories can do any decent person off to leaving or starting anything. Hope you all get my drift. Peace to all and have a merry christmas.
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| From AUSSIE|
Tuesday, December 24, 2002, 22:47
Yeah, i get your drift, what you say is true, however this is also a big topic and covers many smaller issues, like the 'jelousy' thing you'll find below.
Perhaps you would do well to note that there is a difference between institutionalim and cultism, the two are related however they are not synonnmomous. Take boarding schools for example, they are institutions and many techniques employed in this system were adopted by TF, however the family's cultist envirnment removes it from the catagory of a mere institution. Keep in mind that society as a whole may be classed as an institution, although it operates on a entirely different level to TF. Take the products of the Cathloic Boarding Schools, the people brought up in this environment were able to abjust to society and find jobs etc, beacuse they were designed to fit into the system as a whole. TF has attempted to create it's own society/institution, thus we find ourselves 'institutionalized'.
So I agree with you in that we were/are institutionalized to an extent, but the majority of the issies go far deeper that this abstract generalization.
Peace...oh yeah, merry Christmas...and all that...
AUSSIE(reply to this comment)
Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 16:50
Actually, the cult is very Christian, and herein lies the problem with Christianity. When was the last time you read the Epistles of Paul to the early Christians? I hope a very long time, but if you remember what many of them dealt with, you'll see what I mean. In fact, much of the shaping of the Church came from Paul's own views and not Christ's. Christianity is an inherently flawed morality, this becomes clear when one care to "dig deeper".
Aussie, I do agree with much of your analysis, other than this one.
(reply to this comment)
| From AUSSIE|
Tuesday, December 24, 2002, 22:52
DUDE i dont know where you did your digging, may i suggest that your logic is flawed..
TF is not christian, the logic is childishly simple, Christianity is based on the bible, a group who claims to be christian, yet does not follow The Book, is not what it claims to be....i guess we'll have to agree to disagree....but just out of interest, please let me know where you did your digging and on what basis to you make this statment...
AUSSIE(reply to this comment)
| From Lets see...|
Thursday, October 07, 2004, 06:49
The church used to be all powerfull and use a book (Mo letters) in place/name of God- the bible.
They didn't like you to be literate, they distroyed anything that went against what they said. ( Only allowed to read mo letters)
Christian west hates gays and now Africa are trying to misionise the west.
Woman submit to thy husband.(also a fundimental tactic used by berg.If only zerby had reacted in another way but no she backed this fycker.)
Concubines and many wifes in the bible.(same in TF)
The concept of childhood has only been around for 50+ yrs. Children were used for sex, slavory, freak shows, wars etc (TF still has no concept of childhood other wise we'd have had one.)
Kings were automatically linked to God, being their mouth piece, head of the church-hereditory succsesions. (Berg same also. Davidito was his heir untill he did a cromwell)
Class system. (TF had it's WS'ers and footsoilders) One had a bit of choice one had none.
The seperation of church and state, science and religion has erroded all those good little perks that kept them in control.
What the cults do now religion has already bought the t-shirt, wrote the book, but can no longer get away with. Woman and blacks have the vote, children are more valued, all of christianities past victims now have a choice.
As society was progressing our bloody parents run of and join a place that put us right back in the dark ages.(don't forget we were preparing for war, remember the silent airplanes the men with guns bla bla but instead of 15 virgins or everlasting life in heaven we got a magic finger, flying horses and keys, so much more savory then a sword don't you think?)
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Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 13:43
isn't it pretty elitist to say that we're all screwed up and don't "get" monogamy while implying that you do? Were you raised in a different cult? Are you somehow better than the rest of us? How can you make this kind of generalization?
Everything else you said was pretty accurate, though not exactly original. Incidentally, I had to learn about monogamy the hard way, so you may have a point with your first paragraph.
(reply to this comment)
| From AUSSIE|
Thursday, December 19, 2002, 20:00
Sorry to have mislead you JoeH. Yes, I do believe that many, not all of us, are or were screwed up, but this doesn't mean that we can’t learn and implement changes based on a different viewpoint and a change of lifestyle.
It is entirely normal for people to have a number of different partners throughout their lifetime, as they search for their ‘perfect’ match. This is not the issue. I myself left the group when I was 12 years of age, I attended three different high schools and I had plenty of time to adjust to the socially acceptable, and may I add normal, method of courtship. It is normal for young people to have a number of partners, but it is obvious that when someone ‘cheats’ on their current partner, the other party is hurt, usually ending the relationship. I know I was hurt plenty of times, and I hurt others as well. This is unavoidable. Feelings of jealousy and betrayal are entirely normal and in my opinion, they are constructive towards the natural development of character, allowing one to see the need for monogamy, respect for your partner and eventually, maybe, LOVE. One of the ‘rites of passage’ so to speak, leading towards, hopefully, a healthy respect for others and their feelings.
I believe however that the communal environment compounds the problems faced by young people in TF. For example, two people are together, it ends. In normal society, the two ex-lovers, after taking new partners, would usually no longer desire to continue any regular contact. However in TF this is impossible, unless you request to change ‘Homes’, so every day you have this, perhaps painful memory, thrown in your face. How does this allow people to heal and carry on with their lives? This leads me to the point, which I may not have made clear in my article. To avoid the unavoidable hurt, they suppress their natural feelings, perhaps a form of puppy LOVE, and eventually become so calloused to them that they no longer feel anything but LUST.
So when a young person decides to leave the group, they inevitably find themselves disadvantaged, and as you pointed out, 'had to learn the hard way'.
(reply to this comment)
| From JoeH|
Thursday, December 19, 2002, 20:30
I agree, you make some good points. But while jealousy may in fact be "normal," does that make it good? Selfishness and greed are also normal but does that mean that mindless corporate capitalism is the way to run the world? The merits and relevance of jealousy could be a good discussion topic.
What you said about not wanting to see the other person after breaking up was interesting. It seems to me that a lot of women think that trying to be your friend after they rip your heart out is somehow going to make you feel better, when the last thing you want is to be reminded of the pain. I know women who do this, and try to do it to me, and I'm extremely against it. One girl specifically thinks all her exboyfriends are her "friends" and I keep telling her to leave the poor bastards alone. (reply to this comment)
| From AUSSIE|
Thursday, December 19, 2002, 20:44
Yes it is an interesting topic and i am sure many people have different ideas and viewz on it. i would be interseted to hear them..
Ok, i see your point about jealousy. Maybe jealousy in that sence is good in that it keeps people open to the idea that they are eventully bound for monogamy, it helps them to see that they need it, they want it, it is a natural end to the whole process. Look at it like this, if you have no problem with your wife/partner screwing around on you, then you are not jealous, and you may also be a member of some cult, or maybe your just NOT NORMAL!! On the other hand, if you do feel jealous, then shouldnt this feeling demonstrate your Love for the other person.
Note that the jealousy i refer to is of YOUR partner, not someone else's partner.
Yes, this is a problem hey....i totally agree with you regarding your last paragraph, although it is not always the girl who, just wants to be friends. From my personal experience, it is usually the hurt party who wishes to termonate any relations. i experenced this with one of my g-friends in high school, she discovered something that i had written about her in an email to a mate. anyway, she was really hurt and she broke up with me, but she never explained why, she then proceeded to distance me and made an effort to put me down etc....i only discovered the reason for her obveous dislike for me years later, after we finnished high school!!! it finally made sence then, but for 3 years i couldnt understand it. i wanted to be friends, maybe even get back together some day, and she wanted nothing to do with me because she was so hurt...
Anyway i gtg, work to be done...
AUSSIE(reply to this comment)
Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 10:14
I had wanted myself to write an essay pointing out the many contradictions between TF’s beliefs and the bible. I wasn’t going to spend quite so much time on the sexual beliefs, because these have always been quite a stretch, so much so that even TF prefers not to discuss it with outsiders, indeed has even gone so far as to try to deny their beliefs on many occasions, rather than to attempt to defend or justify it from a biblical standpoint.
While I was in TF I was quite the “word warrior” I knew my bible pretty well and worked hard to find biblical justifications for many of TF’s stranger beliefs in terms that would satisfy inquisitive or antagonistic outsiders. Since the bible has always been more of a tool than a guidebook for religious groups that claim to adhere to it, this was of course pointless but it occupied my time.
There are some reasons I haven’t bothered to get into it at any great length and these are:
1) There are so MANY contradictions I wouldn’t know where to start.
2) I am not a Christian; currently I am neutral on the subject of religion. If forced at gunpoint to classify my beliefs I would say I am something of a transitory agnostic with occult interests. Surely there are many church groups who would love to write lengthy volumes on just how far TF has strayed from the “Word of God” and the fact that no one would read them would not bother them as much as it would me.
3) TF claims that their private “revelations” take precedence over the Bible, and only bothers to justify its beliefs from a biblical standpoint when trying to sway the opinion of people who do believe the bible.
As to your comments on jealousy, I think monogamous relationships are ideal, I’m in one now and am happy with it, but I don’t think being locked into a no-exceptions monogamous relationship for life is necessarily the end-all, be-all state for everybody. My best guess is that this tendency in society is some sort of an echo of a primal state in human development that goes back to when women were the “property” of their men and “adultery” was more a theft of private property than a betrayal of true love. “Thou shalt not covet they neighbor’s wife NOR HIS ASS” leaving the last three words of the sentence on rather than ignoring it helps us to understand that the same society that was so insistent on monogamous relationships was also willing to lump a man’s wife in with his animals and other possessions.
Well those are my two cents, good job on the essay by the way.
(reply to this comment)
| From AUSSIE|
Thursday, December 19, 2002, 20:24
Thanks for the input.
Yes I know, I barely scratched the surface of the issue, and your right, where DO you start. I feel that you probably are on the right track when you talk about being able to write a book on that subject, but no one would read it...and I cant be bothered...
Yes, I saw your picz, well done, I’m sure you are very happy, now I can see where you got that inflated ego from...errr...nice chick...
Yeah, I don’t claim to be Christian, maybe a non-practicing-Christian would be more accurate, but as far as the TF goes, I think it should be painfully obvious to anyone who reads the bible that TF is not Christian...simple really.
I think you may have misunderstood my point on jealousy, perhaps I shouldn’t have used that verse to backup my argument, yes, it does end like that, and yes, I understand how the biblical society operated at the time. My point has nothing to do with jealousy of another persons Property, rather I was referring to jealousy in the context of relationships, someone you thought you had connected with and reciprocated your feelings, runs of a week later to fuck the next guy/girl waiting in line, and when you feel hurt, you are reminded that 'jealousy' is bang outta order. Perhaps if you substituted jealousy with emotion, it would make more sense, or maybe not..
Later, King John
I Salute You.
(reply to this comment)
| From Sanders|
Wednesday, April 16, 2003, 15:31
I think there was enough Christianity thrown in to deceive many members into thinking the F. doctrines are based on the Bible. How else would many of us followed them? It always bugged me that the Bible was secondary to the Mo and Mamma letters. They would take one or two verses and base whole letters or doctrines on them (exactly what they accused the churches of doing!). Whenever I'd ask about why the Bible was rarely read by most members, the excuse was that we already knew enough of the Bible. Plus who needs the old truth when there are so many new revelations, right?
One time (about a year before leaving) I wrote Mamma and asked her why, if the F. was such a good tree, did it bare such bad fruit? It was a long letter with numerous examples. Needless to say, I never did get a reply.(reply to this comment)