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Getting On : Family
Take your birth control pills! | from jezz - Tuesday, February 12, 2008
accessed 1566 times I see a lot of young x'rs jumping into having children. Considering how awful... our childhood was, why is it that so many x'rs do not make it a top priority to raise their children in the best possible environment? At least waiting until they are Mentally AND Financialy ready. I don't agree with taking the risk of " Everything works out in the end" when it comes to children. In that crumy little apartement of yours, you don't know that.
"All you need is love" is a load of crap if you ask me. I would say that many of these young parents are looking for happiness in their children rather then first finding happiness within themselves. Some of these child bearing x'rs are aware of this concept but can't imagine how it could possibly relate to them.
My question is this: How do you get one to realise that they are not having children for the right reasons? Is it really sooo bad? Should I not be so bothered by this - even if it's my sister or best friend?
Can anyone recommend a good book that talks about parents who have children and continue to have children to fill that emptiness in their lives? Or a book about the importance of being prepared before breeding - financialy secure etc. ?
Many will say, "It's their life, their choice, as a friend you should support them in whatever decision they make". I get it but no, I wont congradulate you for purposely bringing a child into this world having nothing else to offer at this time besides "love".
What about the ones that can't stop breeding. They feel that they might as well have the entire family while they're at it. It's all great now but what about when all the children are in school or all grown up - what then? Will you leave your husband and make your children go through a divorce because you got married to young? You probably wont have money to put them through college. You might never be able to afford to live in a city where the public schools don't suck - gangs etc. Unless maybe if you want to rent for the rest of your life. You might argue that everyday other children are raised in this way and many turn out ok - so you settle. Is it worth the risk?
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from double
Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 02:43
 (Agree/Disagree?)
Ever met an intelligent breeder? Neither have I.
Also, anyone who reproduces with that "oh, but I'll love my dumbass progeny so it'll be fine" attitude should be shot.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from neez
Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 21:24
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I think there should definately be some sort of license and/or cooling off period required before having kids.
But that really has little to do with the relatively small number of children being born to exers worldwide.
(reply to this comment)
| from bubba
Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 12:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
What makes you think exfam aren't financially stable? I've been making over 150k for 5 years now. Made millionaire status only six years after leaving. Bring on the kids, they are the best gift one could ever hope for.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |  From ErikMagnusLehnsher
Monday, February 18, 2008, 20:30
(Agree/Disagree?)
Methinks you jezz did. Your article raises interesting questions but it reads like a loaded question based on the general assumption of a lack of financial stability.
"At least waiting until they are Mentally AND FINANCIALLY ready. I don't agree with taking the risk of " Everything works out in the end" when it comes to children. In that crumy little apartement of yours, you don't know that. " (bad apartment suggests poverty).
"...Or a book about the importance of being prepared before breeding - FINANCIALLY secure etc."
"I wont congratulate you for purposely bringing a child into this world having nothing else to offer at this time besides "love"." (implied absence of money)
"probably wont have MONEY to put them through college. You might never be able to AFFORD to live in a city where the public schools don't suck - gangs etc."
P.S. I really have no business offering my $.02 but Bubba offered me 1 MILLION (dramatic pause a la Doctor Evil) dollars to argue on his behalf. :)(reply to this comment) |
| | From jezz
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, 13:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
First of all, I said that I see A LOT of young xrs having children. I would assume that the percentage of xrs not having children is quite high compared to those who are ( but this does not mean that I don't see a lot of young xrs having children). So, if you are not an xr who is breeding (and there are many) then there is no way that you can say that I made an assumption as to your financial stability.
Also, I did not say that all xrs having children are financially unstable. I said, " why is it that SO MANY xrs do not make it a top priority to raise their children in the best possible environment? At least waiting until they are Mentally AND Financially ready." See? I said SO MANY. Again, if you are mentally and financially ready (not saying Bill Gates kinda financially ready ) then I'm obviously not talking about you.
If you do the math, I think that it's pretty obvious that I did not say that xrs are not financially stable.
P.S. If you split that 1 million with me, I'll take it easy on you :)(reply to this comment) |
| | from The Devil ®
Friday, February 15, 2008 - 02:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
Hear ye hear ye.
Verily in the morn when the cock crows(or perhaps after thine wife has taken care of that), thou shalt all join me in thine chat room lest I tear ye asunder.
I would give me great pleasure in my horns to talk to the one you call Vixen as she has perplexed, vexed, and possibly even hexed me.
Go now and sin some more.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From The Devil ®
Friday, February 15, 2008, 17:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
What the spacecitypark is going on? I am unable to say anything in thine mortal chat room!
Clearly this is the work of jesus working in conjunction with the old senile fool. The jealous slut has put me on some sort of digital silence restriction.
Either that or ye OLDE chatroom doesn't like the ® in my goodnamesake.
I shall send vast hourdes of demons to plague and generally opress the fine people thou call admins until this godliness is stopped!
BAH!(reply to this comment) |
| | From The Devil ®
Friday, February 15, 2008, 17:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
It is clear to me now that Jules and Co. are in fact angels in sheeps clothing. Which would look kinda silly. I mean where would the wings go?
Jules would look great in one of those g-string satan outfits with the horns and the pitchfork...not to get all 'story time with Samuel' on you.
Why all these puny mortals are right now talking about me in the chat-room like I'm a fucking peice of furniture and can I respond? NO!! Thou art all cursed to a life of gondolas and see through mansions!
DOUBLE BAH!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | from Lance
Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 22:34
(Agree/Disagree?)
I live in a very young city. Austin TX. has an average age of 30(go UT).
Women in the cult are prepositioned to have children even before they can think. And if you look at the late 80's and early 90's you will see some that were married and had kids at the age of 14 and fifteen. I know of two: my sister and my cousin. So it isn't surprising that they might bare that instinct outside of the cult in spite of their best intentions.
It's cruel to think that any ex-member is seeking to have children as a part of some self gratification.
In my experience they already self-gratify with sex and drugs, and that's just how nature intended:-P
Party on!
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from clark
Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 18:11
(Agree/Disagree?)
In my opinion, you are never "ready" to have kids. It's a learning process, like a marriage. None of us are the same person were were a few years ago. Of course it's important to be emotionaly mature enough to be able to think of someone other than yourself before you have a child but if you're not, a kid can change that real quick.
(reply to this comment)
| from cheeks
Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 13:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
Interesting post. I have mixed feelings on the subject, I left the Family four months pregnant with my first daughter and had my second daughter two years later. I was dirt poor and didn't have a pot to piss in but my children never went without. The most important thing was they were fed, clothed and loved. I don't think it matters if you live in the mansion on the hill or the trailer at the bottom, if you take care of your kids and love them and make sure they have what they need that is what really matters.
On the other hand I don't think teenagers should have children, I don't think single people should have child after child with different partners, I don't think assholes should have children, and I don't think retards should either.
For the most part people on Movingon IMO have not had child after child, the children they have had and talk about sound stable and well cared for, so again IMO you are barking up the wrong tree, perhaps you should send your little post to the Family and see what they have to say.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | | from charity
Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 18:36
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree. I know many girls who have had kids after leaving. Almost none of them were ready, as it can be an easy cop-out when your scared of moving on with your own life and finding a job, school etc.
I know someone who said they were bored so they decided to have a kid. This is not a reason to open your legs and breed. These women think they are such good mothers, but they rest all their insecurities and all their worth in their children-breeding skills wich are often quite poor. Any of us can open our legs, but to grow a brain past 25 can be quite a feat that takes more then leg-spreading skills.
These are the people who leave the family, cry about they're childhood, then go on to bread without fully realizing that they don't have much to offer their child at that time and are still lost themselves. My suggestion would be to close them legs, and not let everything snake up there just because of your need for security and a feeling of value to something. Children should belong to adults, not to fellow children looking up to father figures and something to fill their lives of boredom.
(reply to this comment)
| From rainy
Friday, February 15, 2008, 02:22
 (Agree/Disagree?)
There is so much wrong with that paragraph I don't know where to start.
First, I do not believe that anyone told you they decided to have a baby because they were bored. If by chance you really do know someone that brainless, I put to you that that is something very rare indeed. People rarely choose to have children when their life is not set up to welcome and care properly for a child.
I think most of it happens because we were not given proper education about safe sex and contraception. There was also plenty of guilt and mixed messages tied up about it all, combined with the fact that we were taught sex was all-important and abortion was murder. You really have to have been out a couple of years to have gotten past all of that, at least on a subconscious level. We grew up thinking giving birth was a woman's ultimate destiny. No matter how much you try to re-educate yourself as an adult, early impressions are hard to shake on an emotional level. And we are VERY emotional when we discover we are pregnant. Not to mention often all alone in the world and your family are still in the cult. Not too many people around to get advice from.
BUT in spite of all those factors, I believe the vast majority of exers are very careful and try hard to look after their contraception. I don't know anyone who takes the prospect of becoming a mother lightly.
The rest of your statement is revolting. You sound like a bitchy old nun,telling women to close their legs etc... what about the men? What's wrong with sex and sexuality? And "snake up there"? What the? have you been watching manga or something?(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From rainy
Friday, February 15, 2008, 14:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
Irrelevant? The man shares the responsibility for choosing to have unsafe sex, and for subsequently becoming a parent. The man is as responsible for that little life as the woman is. It is not HER decisions that cause this to happen, but THEIR decisions. The man is all-important. He is the father. Children need their fathers. Men need to take responsibility. Your attitude of, "She opened her legs so it's entirely her fault and responsibility is archaic and sexist.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From afflick
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 09:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
Birth control for men was actually developed before the birth control we currently see on the market (women's birth control) as the science of controling sperm's reproductive function was easier at the time than the science of controling ovum. But there were marketing and other problems (would you trust a guy who told you it's ok 'cause he's on The Pill? Neither would I). So, they scratched that and came out with a BCP for women.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From All Packages Should be Delivered Wrapped
Friday, February 15, 2008, 16:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm a guy and while my sex life hasn't always been as active as I'd like for it to be, I've had my fair share of girlfriends and part time lovers. Never once did any of them conceive, mainly because all packages were delivered wrapped so to speak.
Then of the ones I trusted to have unprotected sex with, we had a sit-down and talked about birth-control, went down to the STD clinic, got our clean bills of health, and proceeded from there.
I've seen a lot of guys either #1, have children they weren't present for or, #2, end up in crappy marriages that they weren't 100% happy with as the result of lack of care.
In the States it's no joking matter, a judge can order a paternity test and child support if and when men have children out of wedlock.
I agree that guys are/should be responsible. I don't think any guy should take a woman's word for it unless he's known them a very long time etc. ...
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| | From rainy
Friday, February 15, 2008, 16:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
What makes me think guys have anything to do with pregnancy? Uh..I don't know...biology?
You think the woman's any happier about an unplanned pregnancy than the man? As a matter of fact I have had two boyfriends who actively tried to get me pregnant even thought they knew it was not what I wanted. Men often have motives for wanting to impregnate their girlfriends, such as their insecurity. A woman will stay with a total loser once there's a baby on the way in order to ensure her child has both parents. I'm not saying this happens a lot, just that the manipulation card can be played by both genders.
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| | | | | | | | | | | From x
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 11:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
"A lot of women are devious as sin in this regard."
Considering that women are the ones whose lives are turned inside out forever, considering that the woman will be the one to carry, bear, and raise the child, often alone, I see that statement as completely unfair. She's the one who has to change her entire life in order to accomodate the child, the father still has the option to fuck off. Her life will NEVER be her own again. I think men like to imagine the woman was being 'devious' to ease their own conscience.(reply to this comment) |
| | From All Packages Should be Delivered Wrapped
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 13:45
(Agree/Disagree?)
No honorable man would fuck off. There are plenty of dishonorable men.
Some women are honest about this, but I've seen plenty of guys have their lives turned upside down just the same as the woman has. I've seen men get full custody of their kids and take care of them well as a single father. My cousin is a single father who's raised his son all on his own. After hooking up with one of these devious women, who subsequently fucked off. His life is never his own, we've had several long talks about it. Your stereotypes do not hold true.
Sorry you see the statement as "completely" unfair. Like I say, there are plenty of honorable women too. But I've seen guys get fucked over royaly by dishonorable, devious women. I truly feel for them.
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| | From maybe I should explain what happened to me?
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 00:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
The only time I ever had unsafe sex (REALLY DRUNK) I became pregnant. The next morning after the sex I went straight to the doctor and got the Morning After Pill. But that morning my period arrived, so I was relieved I wouldn't need to take it and go through that horrible pain. When my period hadn't stopped for weeks and I was becoming dizzy, etc, I started to think I might be pregnant. I went to the doctor and tested positive. Not having been out of the Family THAT long, I was still very much under the influence of The Family's views on abortion. As much as I believed it to be murder, I knew I wasn't in any position to have a baby. I went to the abortion clinic to try and get some advice. I was freaking out, thinking about what I was actually contemplating to do to my own child. I remembered when, at the age of five, my mother had taught me about abortion, showing me the True Komix picture of a baby with a dagger stuck into it and blood all over the table. That picture was in the front of my mind, but still I wanted to do the right and most responsible thing by the child. I sat down with a counsellor and told her I didn't know what I should do. When I told her that I was bleeding, she said, "Well this is a decision you won't have to make. I'd say you're going to have a miscarriage." I was very relieved.
I still had to go for an ultrasound, however, to find out why I'd tested positive. A week later, my baby's father and I were in the women's hospital, a huge colour screen in front of us showing a wiggling baby with arms and legs and a head and tummy. I was eight weeks pregnant. The doctors and nurses all congratulated us and called us parents. In answer to you, I can tell you that I *was* truly surprised. My ex said, "We can't kill that." I agreed. I thought I could feel the little baby spirit reaching out to me, maybe saying, "Mother let me live"
Things didn't turn out so well. I was in denial the entire pregnancy and the baby's father turned out to be a horrible person. The ironic thing about what you're saying about being financially set up to care for a baby is that my child's father is very wealthy, and my child had EVERYTHING for the first years of his life, but he was in an unhealthy situation. Now I'm on my own, we get by on a shoestring, but his life is in balance, and we're both relaxed and enjoying our life. I still feel guilty for having brought him into the world when I wasn't ready, but I look at his childhood and I have to say it's wonderful.(reply to this comment) |
| | From afflick
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 09:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
The Morning After Pill (a.k.a. Emergency Controception) does not bring on any pain at all. It is merely a stronger dose of the same hormones that make up birth control pills. Taking this stronger dose in the form of two pills taken hours apart shakes loose from your womb any fertilized egg that may have attached there within the past few days. It is not an abortion pill. Abortion pills (which are constantly being redeveloped to work better) expell the fetus (bigger than a fertilized egg--thus the discomfort involved) from the womb.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From afflick
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, 11:52
(Agree/Disagree?)
After reading your comments, I did some research and, yes, there can be discomfort involved. I personally did not experience any and thought this was the case for everyone.
Taken from Plan B consumer's webpage: http://www.go2planb.com/ForConsumers/Index.aspx: "Side effect with Plan B® include nausea, abdominal pain, fatigue, headache, menstrual changes, dizziness, breast tenderness, vomiting, and diarrhea. Menstrual bleeding may be heavier or lighter, earlier or later after taking Plan B®."
RU486: the Abortion Pill: I searched two pages of google (yes, that is where I do my brilliant research) and couldn't find information from a neutral site but only from pro/anti choice sites. My personal opinion about RU486 is that it hasn't advanced to the point where there aren't significant risks involved. I hope technology quickly helps in that regard.
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| | | | | | | | | | | from afflick
Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 16:24
(Agree/Disagree?)
My husband and I decided not to have children. I am in my thirties and left TF in mid-twenties. We made this decision because the goals we wanted to reach (high level of education, high-pressure career track) were not compatable with children and childcare, especially with a late start.
I never thought I would not be a good parent, should that have been my chosen path. My friends who had children in TF are wonderful parents, not abusive. In fact, they go the other way, paying extra attention to ensure their children get a "typical" childhood with all the toys and fun that entails.
But while not having children is my choice now, this was not always so. Having children was usually not a choice for those both and raised, married in TF. It was simply what one did. There were limited options regarding birth control and family planning was (is) frowned upon. I made it out without getting pregnant, others didn't.
While there are those who have left and continued to have children, it is now their choice. And choice is a beautiful thing. No one should have the power to make fundamental life choices but the individuals involved. That is why many of us left that lifestyle and embrace freedom to choose today.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | From fragiletiger
Thursday, February 14, 2008, 03:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
I can’t get past the ridiculousness of you accusing someone else of sounding like an ‘auntie’.
To me, you exemplify everything an ‘auntie’ was and is; your religious zealotry towards your particular view point, no one else could possible hold a valid opinion. Your willingness to, backstab a ‘friend, your superiority, your judgment, and your complete inability to listen to anything besides the voices in your head.
I had a child young, and if I manage to instill in him nothing else, I hope that at least, he is the opposite of everything you are.
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| | | | | From jezz
Wednesday, February 13, 2008, 22:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Your tone, that you know so much better and are in a better position to decide, is offensive and pompous."
For a second there I almost said "yes mam" but then I remembered that I wasn't in the cult anymore. Unless I beat around the bush and not fully state my opinion, I don't see how I can not be offensive when it comes to a subject like this. As far as pompous goes - well my mom agrees with you - she says that it's my "NWO".
I can't force someone to not have a child you're right. However, I can tell them that I think it's a bad idea (hence the request for a good book recommendation) just like I think it was a bad idea for my mom to join a cult and just like I think it was a bad idea for auntie Hope to have 12 kids.
Here's an example of what I've see happen. A young girl gets pregnant (17, 20, whatever). All her friends and acquaintances say "Congratulations - Yay! We're so happy for you if it's what you want" - maybe like you for example? Then you have the " bad guys" - the older brother, sister or best friend who suggest otherwise. Why is that? Maybe it's because when shit hits the fan, it's not going to be the casual friends and acquaintances that truly hurt for them - that bear the burden of helping them out of their miserable situation. It's not the mother I'm worried about, she can take all the risks she wants for all I care. It's the innocent child whose mother purposely brought into this world to fulfill her own selfish needs. It doesn't always end up negatively but when the risk is very high, what does that say about the parent who takes such a risk for her child?
Someone that I'm very close to and care about more then anyone in this world also had children outside TF at a young age. I don't think she's a bad person, a bad mother or abusive. But I do think that she was selfish and stupid which resulted in some bad decisions. I might feel too strongly about this but I've already seen this happen more then a few times. I was actually kind of hoping that someone could convince me otherwise. I would rather not care. The problem is that when I read your comment, it just makes me feel that I'm right even more.(reply to this comment) |
| | From afflick
Thursday, February 14, 2008, 16:50
(Agree/Disagree?)
"Here's an example of what I've see happen. A young girl gets pregnant (17, 20, whatever). All her friends and acquaintances say "Congratulations - Yay! We're so happy for you if it's what you want" - maybe like you for example?"
If someone told me they were pregnant, I would ask how they felt about it. If they were happy about it, then fine. If they weren't happy and wanted to know what their options were, then I would listen to that and advise them accordingly.
As the leader of Law Students for Choice, I often am faced with the opposite accusation: that I meet with pregnant women and try to pressure them into having abortions. Neither protrayal of my motives is accurate.
The main thrust behind your argument, jezz, is that you are more capable to make a decision about what a woman should do with her body than she is herself. That attitude is not far removed from the idea that gays shouldn't marry because the idea is too "icky" for you, or that certain forms of abortion are ok, but others make you uncomfortable and therefore should not be available to anyone. That is the attitude I find arrogant. The idea that one is able to set themselves above humanity as the arbitrator of All Things Right and Good.
Next, I would like to address the point you made about your mother's freedom of choice and her resulting bad decisions. I also have a mother (and father) who has made an art of bad life decisions, so I share that frustration with you. However (and I apologize for slipping into a legal analogy--I'm in first year and my whole life is taken up by law school) one of the best things from a legal standpoint about choice is the resulting responsibility it creates. The most difficult legal arguments to make concern those who claim they committed an act but did not do so by choice.
Someone who choses the wrong thing will be held accountable, both in the courtroom and in life. It may be in very intangible ways, but a 17 or 20 year old who wants to have a baby will have to live with that choice: getting up at 2 AM, not having money for fun activities or even necessities, losing boyfriends because the guy doesn't want to be attached, etc. There is no free ride and the fact that the decision was freely chosen by them places the responsibility for all that follows that decision squarely upon the person.
Take my own mother: she had many opportunities to get an advanced education (and was, in fact, carried kicking and screaming through her four year degree). She ran away and joined TF, had six kids and never worked a solid job in her life. She does not have a close relationship with her children, does not have any close friends, is not good with money, does not have any professional satisfaction. All she has is an herb garden that she keeps up every year. I feel sorry for her but ultimately, she is responsible for her own misery by her own bad choices.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From jezz
Thursday, February 14, 2008, 22:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
"You are more capable to make a decision about what a woman should do with her body than she is herself."
Wouldn't you say that you are more capable of deciding weather or not Zerby should have a child or not?
"That attitude is not far removed from the idea that gays shouldn't marry because the idea is too "icky" for you"
I think that bringing another human being into this world is very different from finding gay marriage to be "icky" (which by the way I'm for). A new life does not chose to exist in this world - it is chosen for her.
I agree with you in regard to living with the consequences of our decisions.
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From jezz
Thursday, February 14, 2008, 11:54
(Agree/Disagree?)
Right, I got it. Afflick and her husband are not going to have children. I'm not sure why you felt the need to remind me of this. I really couldn't care less if she did anyway. Besides, she is 30 and has been out of TF for some time.
I'm assuming that you are referring to when I said to Afflick "The problem is that when I read your comment, it just makes me feel that I'm right even more." I said that because when Afflick attacked me for simply pointing out that not all choice is good choice. She seemed very on the defensive and repeatedly made it clear that I have no right to question somebody's choice. Simply because it's their choice and that's all that matters. It reminded me of when my mom tells me that being in TF is her choice and her choice alone. Well duh, she's right or she wouldn't be in TF. It's the choices that she chose and continues to choose for her children that is the problem.
I've seen Some young x'rs complain about growing up with no father but then breed with someone that they've only known for six months. Complain about never having their own room (privacy) but can't afford to buy a home with enough rooms for each of their children (because they couldn't wait a couple years). Complain about never having "real" parents while smothering their own children with their neediness and insecurities. Complain that they have no parents to put them through college but then haven't taken into account if they will ever be able to put their own children through college. Complain about their awful environment but then raise their children in the borderline ghetto. Complain about the spankings they received but then spank their own children. I could keep going...
As far as my comment to Angie (she did write the poem btw), I may have been a bit too harsh I do admit. Knowing what I know about her, I did mean everything that I said.
As far as me back stabbing a friend, seiously, I can't take that personally even if I try. Maybe you should take a reading comprehension lesson yourself.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | from rainy
Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 13:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Most of the exers I know had their children while still in or immediately after leaving the Family. I think most of us have learned that lesson now. :) For many people, the fact that they didn't want their children to grow up the way they did was the catalyst that got them out.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | from exfamily
Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
That's why I always say "No kids before 30". I want to be financially secure. I don't want my child(ren) raised in squalor. Plus if you have children too young, you won't be completely free and able to live your life. You can't just up and leave when you want. Around 30 you become more settled, and can start a family with a wife and a nice house. I know too many people who wish they could do things, i.e. change careers or study, but can't because their family saps them of both their time and money.
(reply to this comment)
| from Phoenixkidd
Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
Big Deal! It's their life let them screw it up if they want, or in some cases in can be a good thing and mature you up--but it all depends on the individual...I live in a suburb and it's slogan should read
"Glendale--All the wrong people having kids."
(reply to this comment)
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