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Getting On : Family

I can' t believe that you said that

from Dani - Tuesday, November 13, 2001
accessed 3269 times

One thing that I have seen in my adult life is other young adults who have become just as bad as their parents.

I not saying that you are but all of us were spanked as kids. The thing is that if you teach kids what punishment is by hurting them don't you think that one day they might decide to "punish" someone? I live in England where you can still hit a child and where every three days a woman is killed by domestic abuse and where street fights are common place. I personally feel that there is a strong connection between the way that children are treated and the way that they act when they grow up.

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from bithy
Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 23:44

Hi Dani:

Sorry about my husband (Ian) attitude, I think no matter where do you live or where you are? the more important thing is that you have you kids, He have a beutifull Daughter with someone and he is a good Dad, but he never Party. and you just need to talk about KIDS and he be upset. Don't worry....He is a cool guy
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from sarafina
Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 20:41

I don't beleive it's all about how you are raised. I beleive it about patients and ohw much your willing to sacrifice. My Sister had a kid at 17yrs old and she never spanked him. She didn't beleive in it. I would have never beleived it if I hadn't seen it. But he has turned out to be one of the "best" and most obedient kids I have met in my life. Me on the other hand am not a patient person which is why I don't have kids. I find that the momment they start screaming or doing someting I asked them not to do I feel like "hitting" them. It's hard for me to explain why I feel like that and embarassing to admit it. Thats why I don't think every one was ment to be a mother. I may just be a selfish person and I'm scared. I don't want to have kids because I don't think I have the patients to deal with them. Its horribe to say I know. But it isn't when you know it and make the dicission not to have any because I know I wouldn't be a good mother. I've thought about it many times. A good example was when I went camping w/ Auty and she took her 1yr old daughter the next day we had to leave early because her daughter was crying and it was hot out and not much shade and she wanted to get her home. I rode back with her so the guys could stay and pack up and her daughter screamed the whole way home for an hr. There wasn't anyting you could do for her. Auty remained very calm talking to her daughter the whole way telling her it would all be OK me on the other hand just wanted her to shut up! I couldn't take it! I almost wanted to just walk home rather then listen to her cry. I wouldn't have been able to drive home as calmly as Auty did if it was mine own sceaming like that. It turns out she just had an ear infection and the altitude chance made it worst. I admire her for her patients and her and my sister were ment to be parents. There are some tho who aren't ready for that who have kids anyways and thats where alot of the abuse comes in to play. Hitting your kid comes from frusteration and anger. There are other forms of diapline. getting spanked never "helped" me if anything as a kid it made me more angry and filled me with contempt and hatred and rebellion. But as you can see my sister and I were brought up in the same family w/ the same disipline. But made our oun choices how it would effect us we both chose the same path in a way have kids but not raise them the same not to have any. But either way no other kids were spanked.
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From frmrjoyish
Thursday, May 29, 2003, 01:04

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I was raised with spankings!  My Dad used to love to put as much of the "fear of God" in us as he could, then one day him and my Mom got in trouble by Sam and Kezia (in the PI) because us kids were walking around all day without "the joy of the Lord" on our faces (by the way, we got spankings for that too).  How the hell were we supposed to be happy when we lived in fear of getting beat all day by not just our parents but everyone in the home who thought we needed it?

TF got their screwed up views of abuse disguised as discipline from their pervert leader.  I still can't understand how our parents could take child rearing advice (advice isn't even a good term, it was more like orders) from a perverted child molester.  Were they just so blind they didn't even see?  I don't think so, I think they just rationalized it away in their cult-influenced minds to keep away the guilt.

One thing that shocks me is how many people on this site seem to have kids.  One thing I relish as a "systemite" is the ability to choose whether or not I want kids, and so far, I don't.  It's not that I don't like kids, but I like them on a case by case basis.  Some are great, but some are little monsters who I can't even stand to be around.  Then, there's the problem of when your friends have kids, everything changes and all they want to talk about is the kid, diapers, and baby stuff.  It's like their whole personality changes. 

Kids just require so much attention and energy (not that they don't deserve it), I feel like when I'm in a room with a ton of kids, all the life and energy is sucked right up by them. That may sound selfish and selfcentered, but as a childless person, I have that priviledge.  I do want kids "someday"....maybe!  I guess I don't understand how once people have a taste of freedom out of TF, they go tie themselves down with kids. But, all my friends with kids say I'm great with them and I'll make a "wonderful really should get on with it".  Like I said earlier, liking kids is on a case by case basis. 

Having said that, I do want to say that I admire single moms who have kids and manage to make the best out of it and even become sucessfull.  More power to 'em!  They have the hardest job in the world, a job I've tried to avoid and so far I've succeeded. 

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From Vicky
Thursday, May 29, 2003, 05:56

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(

I just wanted to say, absolutely!  Being a parent is demanding and exhausting and takes a lot out of you.     I don't think you need to worry about being self-centred, that's your right as a single person.   A lot of the people on this site had children before leaving TF and for the ones that had them after, well it was obviously something they were ready for; At least I would hope so.   There are huge rewards that come from having children but many sacrifices too,  and if you are rushing into it just for the sake of it then it can come as quite a shock to the system.  I have never regretted having my children early (first one at 19 so not super young) because it was something I really wanted and I have been completely fulfilled for the last 7 years in my role as a mum.  I am finding now though that it does limit me.  I am constantly having to put my dreams and ambitions on hold because I have a responsibility to my girls and no matter how badly I want something I will put my children first.  It is difficult to explain the dilemma one faces as a parent and the complexities, but with all the things I have to forgo at this time I still wouldn't change anything.   If you are not particularly maternal then just don't worry about it.  of course you have a right to do all the exciting things you want without having to be "sensible" and responsible, and when you've gotten that out of your system you'll be ready for a family.


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From frmrjoyish
Friday, May 30, 2003, 12:45

Vicky:  I'm glad things seem to be going good for you and your kids.  I appreciate you understanding what I was trying to say, I figured all the moms on this site would be up in arms over what I said.  The thing is, is I do feel maternal, my dog and cat will attest to that, but when I think of having kids it scares the hell out of me.  Maybe if I have kids and all the parental hormones kick in I'll feel different.  good luck to u!(reply to this comment
From Aita.
Monday, October 28, 2002, 09:40

I think it's also very different when it's your kid. I know I'm not a very patient person. I hated taking care of kids while in TF. I always traded (whenever I could) to be on meal prep or anything else. As the oldest of 12 my mom always had me helping her with the younger ones & the only times I remember enjoying it was when they were new born, because they would sleep almost all day & I could read or draw while pretending to keep an eye on them.

Whenever I thought of having kids of my own I thought I would be a terrible mother, that it would be too difficult, that I'd treat them bad, etc.
I really surprised myself when I had my kid. My mom still says she can't believe how patient I am with him. I treat him in a way I never treated other kids before. I enjoy explaining things to him, talking to him. I even put up with his ocassional fits & tantrums. Anyway, everything a mother is supposed to do.

So, Sarafina, maybe you would feel different with your own kid. Maybe then you would find the patience you never knew you had.(reply to this comment
from StillHasScars
Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 19:58

People who hit children belong in prison. That includes SGA's. I think it is disgusting that anyone could survive the hell we grew up in, and not realize that physicaly abusing children is wrong.

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from 10:36er
Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 19:15

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
yeah, sadly I have have found especialy in the US, alot of young parents arent particularly caring for their kids. many are quite young and have an attitude that the kiddo is cramping their party life, which is probably actualy a good thing. but yeah they are left in front of the TV or in day care all day and tossed around from grand parent to uncle or aunt because their parents(s) are "busy" (partying) pretty sad. I guess some poeple just go with what they know, after all, many here were raised in trailers anyhow.
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From Ex-member
Tuesday, October 29, 2002, 16:30

You freak! What is wrong with you?

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From Jerseygirl
Monday, October 28, 2002, 13:44

(steps outside of trailer, where wild drunken partying is going on, and kids are being left to themselves)
You know, you are so correct! It must be that "loud american" spirit again!I have to say though that usually I try and hire a babysitter who has been off drugs for at least a week, and I try to limit my kids to only 24 hrs of TV per day. My two Uncles have this game they play with my son--they toss him to and from each other while he screams in terror--it's fucking hilarious!! And thank god for my mom, shes always willing to lend a hand with them (as long as all they eat is corndogs and mac&cheese) so I can recover from my hangovers or drug trips from parties I go to. Anyways take care man,good to know there's someone out there who really digs what I'm going through! (reply to this comment
From Ian
Monday, October 28, 2002, 11:14


Whoever you are, you really need to go fuck yourself.

I don't know anyone who lives in a trailer, but I know alot of young parents. We all like to party from time to time, it doesn't make someone a bad parent.

It's not for me to judge but maybe you should consider a location move if your frame of reference is trailer trash. That's why god made big cities and suburbs.

"Another fine post by ian"

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From faeriraven
Monday, October 28, 2002, 10:29

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT!! Excuse me, I don't know where you live, or what kind of 'young people' you know but do you have any children? Do you know what it's like to be young and have a child? What do you mean most of us were were raised in trailers?? Who do you think you are?!
I know a lot of young parents here in the States and their kids are the only things that keep them going...they live for their kids, they care for their kids and raise them like they never had a chance to be raised. Yes, it's hard as a young parent, sometimes you just have to get out and away for a night, but that does not mean you neglect your child! If a child is in daycare, most of the time it's so that we can be at work or studying to provide the best life we possibly can for our children. If we let them visit grandparents or relatives it's so that they can get to know them, not so that they can be 'tossed around'. Yeah, so I never got a chance to 'party', I don't blame my child for it and certainly don't take it out on him and throw him around and resent him for it! I think I can honestly say for most parents here (correct me if I am wrong), that as hard as it is to have a child at a young age, our children are our lives, and as for me, I'm 22 w/ a 6 yr old and my child was the best thing that ever happened to me. So don't generalize! (reply to this comment
from Hanna_Black
Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 13:13

I try not to spank my kids as much as possible, but sometimes it is necessary.
I realised that if they do something dangerous that is hazardous to their haelth or lives, a spank can work well.
For example my son used to try and put nails in the electric plugs. We were alwys like "no, don't do that it's dangerous, bla bla"--he still tried to do it. So once I jsut spanked him even though I felt bad, and he never did it again. Perhaps it left a better impression on him than another method would have. What I think id stupid is when you spank a child for hitting someone. to me, that is the dumbest thing to do. Better take away some of his T.V. time, or give him a five-minute time out. I really try hard not to spank my kids, but sometimes I just get real mad. I know it's no excuse, but I think every mom "loses it" once in a while. I have never punched my kids, I wouldn't dream of that! I believe I never even slapped their face or bare butt. Sad thing is both my kids are just so freaking stubborn that they drive me to my limits. The important thing for my kids is that I always apologize if I got too mad, or spanked them when I could have punished them some other way. But when I apologize, they realise that I was wrong and they know it isn't standard. Hopefully they will be a better parent than I am.
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From silver
Friday, December 09, 2005, 01:43

Ever heard of outlet covers? (reply to this comment
From by stander
Saturday, October 05, 2002, 21:46

Mrs. Toogood said she apologized to her daughter for getting "to mad" as well.
"Hopefully they will be a better parent than I am" is a cop out. Maybe you should go seek some psychotherapy. (reply to this comment
From Hanna_Black
Monday, October 28, 2002, 11:05

when I mean "too mad," I mean yelling or shouting. Not like I fling them against the wall and then apologise. I have hardly any patience, and the few times I lose that patience, I do apologise. What's so mrs. Toogood anyhow? Do you have kids? I never said I am a good mother, but I try. If I fail (which I often do as I am not perfect) I apologize, and my kids now that I was wrong, and they were right.
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From Clair
Wednesday, May 28, 2003, 21:14


Hi Hanna,

I would like to be in touch, you sound about the same as me. Being a mum is such hard work especially when you have conflicting ideas within yourself as to how to best raise them, which come from your own childhood. I think it could help if we who are in this position could chat and voice our opinions and experiences.

Anyway if you want to give me your e-mail we could write.

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From Hanna_Black
Saturday, May 31, 2003, 05:42

Sure, Clair. Write me at : (reply to this comment
from jo
Friday, November 16, 2001 - 17:00

I feel quite strongly about the whole spanking issue, perhaps because it was really given an over-kill when we were growing up.

I do have kids and don't spank them, they are at the age now when other things work, i.e. pocket money, 'the look', everyone has different ways of disciplining thier children and different children respond to different things, as Sunny said, it is an optional form of punishment, just not one that I use.

In Scotland at the moment, they have passed or are passing a law, (something I saw briefly on the news) to make it illegal to hit children under 3 years old which I think is cool.

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from EyesWideShut
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 20:40

I agree with Holon. Spankings are a method of child instruction that, used in moderation, are an option at parents' disposal. But if there in any anger involved at all, it is not going to have the desired effect.

I also agree that if you habitually use hitting as a mode of punishment, even controlled hitting, they will grow up to be hitters, and will have to work very hard to overcome the instinct. I was a "hit" child, as was my father, and now my first instinct is to hit. Let me clarify that I don't, however, hit my son, but the impulse is there. Hell, ask my husband!

I was of the opinion that spanking "in moderation" was an acceptable form of punishment. I knew how bad it could be if one was carried away or angry, or worse yet, spanking their child out of pressure from other adults. When you do this, you don't allow your parental conscience to do the talking, you are spanking to please or prove something to your peers. Awful!

I questioned my views on corperal punishment when a friend of mine talked about it. His theory wasn't flawless, however. He said yelling at the top of your lungs ought to do the trick! Ha! I saw him use this tactic on his dog when it made a puddle of runs on his carpet. Nearly scared me half to death! Boy, could that guy yell. Got me thinking I might rather be at the other end of a stick than to have him yelling at me! Ha! Hey, I said, I don't need any encouragment to yell--I'm a natural. The only problem is that your kid get numb to the loudest of yells and stares blankly into your red face whilst you go hoarse. But seriously, after that conversation, I stopped spanking my son. And he's become a spawn of hell!!! Just kidding. Things are going well because, thank goodness, he's like me (poor sod) in the sense that he can be reasoned with. If there is a good reason for something and he understands it, he will co-operate. But you can forget about that do-it-'cause-mommy-said-so crap. Where did that come from anyway?

I think any spanking creates a gap of fear between a parent and their child. For example, most of the time the only "spanking" I did was slap my son's mouth for using bad language or being disrespectful. But I started to notice that he developed an automatic reaction to any sudden movement near his head. Out of the blue, I'd reach my hand out to wipe his mouth or pat his hair, etc, and he'd pull back and shut his eyes like a great smash was on the way. It hurt to see that because I used to be the same way and am jittery to this day. My dad would reach over my head to get something or reach out to me for some reason and I'd recoil. He was big on multiple knuckle-sanswitches, and I sub-consciously thought that if I squished my head to my shoulders early, somehow it would lessen the actual shock of the "klunk(s)" on my noggin. It's no wonder I was a real egg head back then.

I can't speak from the viewpoint of someone that was raised in a household of moderate discipline, maybe one here and one there is ok. But if a child fears the parent that is supposed to be one of the two only people in the world that will protect him/her come hell and high water, how sad. It's one thing to fear or hate a teacher or care-giver, but not a parent.
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From dani
Friday, November 16, 2001, 15:37

I'll sure that your parents could write the same thing about raising you. I wonder if your children will have the same views you do on how you have rasied them and 'never did it in anger' and 'it was for there own good. (reply to this comment
from angel
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:31

wow!! I never thought about that. It makes so much sense. One thing I always hated, is when they would hit kids for hitting.
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From dani
Friday, November 16, 2001, 15:46

Thank you, what is with these people who apparently hit kids after knowing what it's like to be a helpless child.(reply to this comment
from crista
Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 10:43

A boy that went to school with my husband bit an electrical wire as a toddler and still has the burn marks on both sides of his mouth.

Our son loved electrical wires as well, but I spanked him every time he put one in his mouth and now he doesn't do it anymore.
I'd much rather him get a little spank from me and be afraid to bite the cord, than to not spank him and end up with burn marks on his face for life.
The same goes from climbing the oven, running in the street, sticking his head in the toilet, going for the knife drawer, sticking things in outlets and anything else that might be dangerous and have a worse effect than a spanking.
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From name
Monday, October 28, 2002, 09:03

Ever heard of supervision? Even babies can understand the word no. It works on dogs w/o the need for hitting-it will work for kids too. (reply to this comment
From Holon
Tuesday, January 20, 2004, 12:14

Spoken like a childless person.You dont know my nephew,He is an encrediably challenged kid.My sister Crista is a good mother and does watch her kids.(reply to this comment
From Deranged1
Monday, October 28, 2002, 09:57

Parents aren't omnipresent, all-seeing beings. Bad things will happen. If you can prevent some of them by stopping your kid from doing those things on his/her own, without supervision, it'll have been worth it. Some very small kids learn well from being told "no"; most don't. It can be controversial, yes, but if a parent is reasonable, as Crista seems to be, there's no reason to try to tell them they're wrong.(reply to this comment
From dani
Friday, November 16, 2001, 15:42

Someone could also die from crossing a street. That doesn't mean we don't cross roads anymore. What I'm trying to say, is how many of our additidues are things that we have picked up from the way we were brought up and as we making the same mistakes with children because to us it was the norm.(reply to this comment
From crista
Sunday, November 18, 2001, 03:40

Well, I'm not sure what spanking has to do with mistakes that were made when we were raised. I wasn't abused as a child. I do remember a few spankings, none that I didn't deserve.

If I were to think of a mistake that was made to me and my siblings that I didn't want to make to my children, it would probably be the schooling. The only thing that really hurt me in any way was lack of schooling, and I did overcome that eventually.

I don't plan to always spank my child, just while I can't converse danger to him. I'm an Early Child Development Specialist, I've studied all about redirecting and positive reinforcement. (reply to this comment
From dani
Sunday, November 18, 2001, 17:40

I wasn't talking about sexual abuse but what some countries consider physical abuse. And when it comes to it, the way you raise your children is up to you. Although there are many different ideas on children just as positive reinforcement is quite outdated and was popular in the 50s with many behaviourists such as Skinner.
The flaws in that theory are, 'punishment is less effective because it causes slower and less learned responses. It often causes the individual to avoid being punished rather than stop the undesired behaviour. It can cause the individual to associate the punishment with the punisher, rather then the behaviour. And finally it may train an individual about what not to do, but it doesn't train in what to do.' (reply to this comment
From crista
Monday, November 19, 2001, 08:15

I wasn't talking about sexual abuse either. I wasn't abused sexually, physically or verbally as a child.

I know that about positive reinforcement, which is where the redirecting comes in. Do you have children, or are you just babbling?

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From I think she's just babbling.
Monday, October 28, 2002, 13:28

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from Holon
Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 21:10

The point of a spanking is not to hurt the child,but to give them a wake-up call.You dont spank your child because you are mad at them.

You do it because they have done somthing that could really hurt them or someone else.

What do you think is better,should you let your child climb up on the stove and get burned,or should you give him/her a swat on the bottom so they know that what they are doing is wrong?

Do you have children Dani? If you do, than you must know that children dont always listen when you tell them not to do somthing.

I would rather spank my child for running in the street after I have told him/her not to,and hope that he wouldnt do it again( when he stops and thinks "oh, I remember what happened last time I ran into the street) than have him/her get killed by a car.Dont you agree?

There is a right way and a wrong way to punnish your child.You dont do it because you are made or frustrated with them,but because they need to learn a lession,that there actions have conciquensas.

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From dani
Friday, November 16, 2001, 15:44

I'm glad you're not my dad.(reply to this comment
From Christian
Saturday, December 21, 2002, 16:00

Discipline is enjoyable once you get the hang of it.(reply to this comment
From Holon
Saturday, November 17, 2001, 15:37

First of all,I'm a mom not a dad.I hardly ever got spanked when I was a kid,and I can only think of 1 time I didnt deserive it.Maybe you were abused as a child and dont understand what a normal spanking is.

I almost never spank my kids,It is a last resort thing.And when I do spank them it is only a swat or two on the butt.

Before I had kids I always said "I will NEVER spank my children"But some times that is the only solution for some kids.Perhaps when you become a parent you will understand.

People who have never so much as read a book about CPR,Have no buisiness teaching it.That is my opinion,and I am intilted to it.

There are obvous things about parenting:::

1)Dont beat your child or leave bruses,cuts,broken bones inside or out.

2) dont slap your child on the face or hit them with anything(fist,object or anything else)

3)Feed your child,love your child,provide a good loving,caring,safe home for your child.

4) let them know that they are the most important thing in your life.And that they matter more to you than your own life.

And there are many others,these are just a few.I believe the few spankings I got helped make me the person I am today.I was not abused in that way as a child.And I dont abuse my children in anyway shape or form.

A swat on the bottom with your hand only, when the situation should arise, is not a form of abuse.

Come back and have this arguement with me when you have a 3 year old.(reply to this comment
From dani
Sunday, November 18, 2001, 17:43

You're right I don't have kids. And it is your choice how you raise them, I just disagree with you on the subject. (reply to this comment
From Beets
Saturday, June 22, 2002, 10:12

I think that it is quite interesting that those people who weren't abused when they were young believe in some form of spanking and those who were abused don't. Hey, maybe their kids won't believe in spanking and their kids, kids will believe in spanking and so on. Also all of this keeps on reminding me the scene at the beginning of Brave New World when the doctor is demonstrating why the Beta's don't like flowers or books and gives them this big electric shock when they go anywhere near them. Hey it's all for the better of society, now isn't it? (reply to this comment
From Dani
Friday, December 20, 2002, 20:04

since when did you get so good at being a smarty pants. hee hee nice one(reply to this comment
From Anaik
Monday, October 28, 2002, 14:21

I wasn't abuse and I DON'T believe in spanking your kids. Hmm I guess we can't put everyone in a catagory.(reply to this comment
From Childless guy
Wednesday, June 19, 2002, 23:18

OK, I dont have kids. Now that that's out of the way, i am very aware that us childless people never fully understand the challenges of raising kids, but I do take care of my friend's kid quite a bit, so on that note, here goes.
I personally think spanking a child is, in the best of cases, the laziest way to discipline. It's easy to do because it's quick and easy to do when parents are frustrated, but if it's an option, it subconsciously teaches kids that physical force and violence is a solution to problems.
Sending a child to their room, writing lines, missing an outing to clean the house, they all take more time, something we all dont have alot of, yet the punishment lasts a lot longer and so has more time to make an impression. And kids don't get the impression that violence is an option to solve problems. (reply to this comment
From Holon
Tuesday, January 20, 2004, 12:40

on that note let me say this, My oldest is almost 10 years old (obviously too old to spank)Anyhow I had said no playstation 2 for the weekend and on sunday night my husband asked him what I had grounded him for and he just couldnt recall at all why. The kid had no memory of why he was grounded.I had to reminded him that he had called me a "Fucking Bitch" and slammed his bedroom door in my face.He just looked at me as said "oh Yeah" .So even things like loss of privilege ect... isnt always the answer even for older kids.(reply to this comment
From live_fast-die_young
Thursday, December 08, 2005, 00:32


You contradict yourself Holon.

HOLON: I would rather spank my child for running in the street after I have told him/her not to,and hope that he wouldnt do it again( when he stops and thinks "oh, I remember what happened last time I ran into the street) than have him/her get killed by a car.Dont you agree?

HOLON: My oldest is almost 10 years old (obviously too old to spank)Anyhow I had said no playstation 2 for the weekend and on sunday night my husband asked him what I had grounded him for and he just couldnt recall at all why. The kid had no memory of why he was grounded.I had to reminded him that he had called me a "Fucking Bitch" and slammed his bedroom door in my face.He just looked at me as said "oh Yeah". So even things like loss of privilege ect... isnt always the answer even for older kids.

SO, is punishment going to teach your child not to it again or not???

Your apparent lack of spankings / abuse is not what gives you a more accepting approach to spankings. It's because you were brought up told that was the right way to go about it. C'mon...we all read the "TKs" & Kids Mop with graphic pictures of parents beating their crying bare-bottomed children, "in love" but with suspiciously un-loving expressions on their faces. Normal.

Mum: Abortion is evil because you are killing a life, a HUMAN BEING.

Me: So would you hit / beat a HUMAN BEING?

Mum: Uh, no. (Looks at me warily.)

Me: Hmmm...selah.

I don't have children of my own, but have spent over half my life raising them. The first time I slapped one ("for his own good") I felt physically sick & resolved never to do it again. It was just WRONG.

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From live_fast-die_young
Thursday, December 08, 2005, 00:47


This Be The Verse

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

Philip Larkin - 1971
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