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Getting On : All My Politics

Repatriation or “Huddling with the Masses”

from Heraclitus - Sunday, January 18, 2009
accessed 552 times


(I submitted this article in the appropriate section four days ago, but as its admin must be on vacation or something, and this matter is somewhat urgent, Ive taken the liberty of posting it here)
My brothers and sisters in the lord, I humbly beg your sage advice. Due to number of considerations, but perhaps primarily because I’m sick of being the eternal alien and have no desire to end my days as a freak show, I am considering migrating to the Whore, that is to say, the USA.
I’m writing this in the hope of getting some candid, useful advice. Though an American citizen, I have never lived or even spent more than a week’s time in the States, and therefore my knowledge of how things are done there is understandably lacking. I think many on this site can sympathize with my predicament and are therefore in the position to offer uniquely helpful advice.
To make my questions easier to answer I will put them in point form. Feel free to comment on whichever you feel qualified to, rather than feeling that you must try to answer all of them. Also, I would appreciate it if answers could be as specific as possible, using your own experiences and those of people you know rather than simply parroting the news which I could easily access myself. For example, to my question regarding the cost of living, a reply of “it’s expensive” is not useful, whereas one of “I spend 1000$ a month on food” is useful, as I can extrapolate a budget from it. Another thing to keep in mind is that I am a 27 year old white male. Things that work for a woman or a minority may not work as well for me. I mean nothing by this but simple pragmatism. For instance, if you made a lot waitressing or something, please take your sex into consideration before advising that I could do the same. Another thing, I don’t even have a “proper” high school diploma (CVC being the antithesis of proper), though I’m not sure if this effects my job eligibility.
One last thing, for those living in the UK (Baxter, Fist, Vicky, Ne Oublie etc) I would consider moving to the UK (or Canada) if studying there would be more feasible than in the states. I have heard conflicting reports regarding government funded uni, and about whether or not it is accessible to non Brits. The other questions I ask also apply to the UK and any British input on the matter would be appreciated. Ironically enough, my biological father holds a British passport, but as both unfortunately and typically his name does not appear on my birth certificate, I don’t think his nationality will do me much good.
Now after that excessive preamble, here are my questions:
1. How bad are things? /Availability of work
In the news it’s all “the crash” and “grapes of wrath.” Are things really that bad? Have your friends lost their jobs?  Are companies still hiring? How much competition is there? Would someone with no US work experience or local references be able to find a decent job? (By decent I mean one that pays the bills and hopefully does not involve hamburgers or GAP)
2. Cost of living
How much does food, rent, utilities and transport cost? If you make X a month working Y number of hours, how much of your paycheck is spent on the most basic necessities? Specifics here would be helpful.
3. A good state/city to live in
Where in your opinion is a good place to live? Do you like the state you live in? How are the taxes? I am considering moving to DC or San Fran. Any thoughts?
4. Studying / Non Resident fees / Federal aid, scholarships / SAT
From my research as well as what people have said on this site, it would seem my best bet for studying would be to attend a community college and then switch over to university after 2 years. This sounds feasible enough. However, from what I’ve researched, I would be required to pay exorbitant non resident fees for at least the first year I study and possibly even longer. I find this prospect excruciatingly annoying. It seems since I am the resident of no state, I am essentially a non citizen in my own country. Is this really true? How did you deal with this problem? Is there some way around it?
Regarding Federal aid, what is required for the Pell grant? To my knowledge all I need is a GED and proof that I am studying. The question is whether or not there is an age limit for it. I am 27, soon to be 28 (wretched, I know). What about other scholarships? Does anyone have any info regarding their accessibility and or age limit? I consider myself reasonably intelligent, and am fairly confident I could qualify for some on an academic level, but I think my lack of state residency, undocumented education and age might prove a fatal problem. Advice from those with experience in these matters would be appreciated. (Yes, I’ve checked out
Lastly, how important would a high SAT score (something I believe I could get) be for someone my age? Is it something I should try to get, or is it pretty much a non issue if I am attending community college anyway?
5. Healthcare / Transport / Credit
How expensive is healthcare? (I realize this is an outrageously generalized question, just specifics regarding your own situation will do.) As for transport, I get the impression that it’s impossible to get anywhere in the US without a car. Is this true, even if I was living in a city, like say, DC? How much would a decent used car cost (a wild estimate will do)?
As for credit, I obviously have no history. How big of a deal is this? Would I be able to get a credit card, rent a place or a car, etc?
That about wraps up my basic questions. Feel free to add any information you think useful which failed to ask for.
Thanks for taking the time.

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from Phoenixkidd
Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 12:27


Hercalitis, American from birth and your questioning spending time or living in the States? Are you kidding me? This is still the land of opportunity, The Grand Canyon, LA beaches, Key West even Cold Seattle is your heritage! Even though the economy may be in a lag, I dare say it is the easiest place to start a new life. I am so glad I was born American other than Japanese UK or other I cannot even think of anything else. Trust me the States is so diverse I am sure you will find your niche somewhere and make a nice living for yourself.

Just do it!--Nike circa 1987
(reply to this comment)

From rainy
Friday, January 30, 2009, 01:24

Hmmm. I'm an American citizen but I haven't chosen to live there yet. Now that Obama's been elected, however, it seems more appealing. Once I feel strong enough to stand on my own without all the government help and free healthcare, etc. maybe I'll try it.(reply to this comment
from steam
Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 06:48


I have not had the time or inclination to post on here in awhile, but I know "if only once in our life we are light and joy to someone it's worth it". So I will try to be helpful here. I might start by saying I do not know if you want my advice as your comment was addressed to your "brothers and sisters in the Lord" and I do not fall into this illustrious grouping. However I shall proceed regardless.
First set your mind at ease, for a single person who needs only to keep a roof over his head and some sustenance in his belly with no other obligations, such requirements are not difficult. You do not need to rent your own place, you can find a roommate situation on craigslist quite simply, which will alleviate some of your concerns in regards to credit issues.
Many second generation have a flair in sales, and although you may need to start with a job at the GAP if you consistently seek and follow through on job opportunities on sites like focusing in sales and marketing oriented areas you will find something useful soon enough, just watch out for MLM schemes as such boards are rife with such "opportunities". My suggestion to focus in this general field is because they tend to hire on a results oriented basis as opposed to degrees and such, and your resume can be full of overseas accomplishments in the field of sales and marketing. In this area they will go a lot on how you present in the interview process, as that shows them how you will present to prospects.
As far as education goes I think you may want to go to a state school as opposed to community college, it seems that if you get good scores on the SAT and get in they offer better financial aid, and including rooming etc they often end up after the aid package comes together being even cheaper than community college though they do not seem so on paper. Most east and west coast states have good health care programs for low income people who apply well, and if you are healthy, you don't need to worry initially because in and accident the doctors will take care of you and you can apply to be part of a program retroactively if you have little to no income usually. You can get a decent used car for about 2k and the roommate situation would run you $500 to $700 per month. You may have difficulty with things like the PELL grant because you probably didn't sign up with selective services before 25 and now it is too late. Girls don't have to worry about that one. Hope this helps.
(reply to this comment)
From rainy
Friday, January 30, 2009, 01:32

I like what you're saying about many second gens going into sales. For me, witnessing was never my thing, and upon leaving, I knew I wanted to keep out of sales. After taking a sales job that reminded me horribly of the family and quitting after two days, my first job was waitressing (all that kitchen experience) and next was childcare(my main "ministry" in the family). My good friend had always done the "secretary" thing in the family, and she got a job as a secretary and moved up in that industry- now she's a PA to a CEO. She'd also been into the "Tae Bo" exercise videos in TF in Japan, and she had a second job as a Tae Bo instructor. So I think what you did in TF can help a lot on the outside. My real passion in TF was consider the poor ministries, and now I am beginning study towards a degree in Social Science. It's taken me 8 years since leaving to be in a place where I'm ready for study.(reply to this comment
From Peter
Thursday, January 22, 2009, 07:29

I don't see anywhere where he states he didn't register with Selective Service but assuming he didn't register before turning 26, it would still be possible for him to regain eligibility for Pell grants and other Federal and state education benefits. has more information. Assuming the information on that page is correct, it seems fairly easy to regain eligibility as all one has to do is convince a financial aid administrator that the failure to register was not knowing and willful. (reply to this comment
From Heraclitus
Thursday, January 22, 2009, 19:28


Bloody hell! I never heard of this SS nonsense before! I wish someone had posted a notice regarding it on this website earlier! I'm 27, so now whether or not I qualify for Federal or even state aid will depend on the whim of some random aid officer! To top it off whats with that web page? There's this eagle with a big SS on it and some bald black dude next to it as if to show they aren't Nazis. BUT THEY ARE!!!!!

NOOOOOOOO(reply to this comment

From Samuel
Thursday, January 22, 2009, 19:57


"There are only a few options for regaining eligibility, and they depend on showing that either the student was not required to register, or that the failure to register was not knowing and willful. "

It might take a little bit of explaining, but it's worth a try.  After all, your future is at stake.

All I can tell you about the Pell Grant, should you get it, is make sure you know what degree you want to get before you waste your Pell Grant on a program that you later realize you have zero interest in.

Best of luck to you!(reply to this comment

From Samuel
Thursday, January 22, 2009, 20:17


And here's something else, do any of these apply to you?

" The most common examples where financial aid administrators have granted an override include the following.

  • Parents were illegal aliens (Hey. it doesn't say WHERE they were illegal aliens)and kept the student unaware of the requirement to register.
  • Student claims he was not aware of the requirement and lived abroad for the entire period from age 18 through age 26.  (sounds like you)
  • Student was aware of the requirement, but incorrectly believed that the requirement did not apply to him because he is his parent's only child or because all of his parent's other children are already serving in the armed forces.

  • Student was kidnapped by a parent in a custody battle, and that parent prevented the student from registering. (?)"
  • (reply to this comment
    from g'morning
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 21:10

    In addition to all the good practical advice below, I just want to suggest you take a minute to wake up and smellll the coffffeee.
    It's tough when you leave. They made it like that.
    Seems you aren't leaving at the youngest age either.
    (reply to this comment)
    From Heraclitus
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 23:41

    Right. I left the family a centuries ago, Ive just been mooching around in heathen lands since then, rather than embracing the whore as I intend to do now. I thought my article made this fairly obvious. May I suggest you kneel down and smell the green tea?(reply to this comment
    From another martian
    Monday, January 26, 2009, 19:13


    On the version posted now (not as may be changed later) the only passages where I might find you to have made "this fairly obvious" are"

    "Due to number of considerations, but perhaps primarily because I’m sick of being the eternal alien and have no desire to end my days as a freak show, I am considering migrating to the Whore, that is to say, the USA.
    I’m writing this in the hope of getting some candid, useful advice. Though an American citizen, I have never lived or even spent more than a week’s time in the States, and therefore my knowledge of how things are done there is understandably lacking. "

    This does not make it obvious you left the family a centuries ago and have been 'mooching around in heathen lands then' to newly decide to "embrace the whore".

    Stusy for the SAT reading comprehension portion is recommended should your plains stay aimed at the uh, "whore".(reply to this comment

    from Matchmaker Matchmaker make me a match!
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 19:46


    You could always marry one of those annoying chav cows for the residency. Most of 'em would marry an American at the drop of a hat.
    (reply to this comment)

    from Baxter
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 19:42


    Dude, do not (I repeat) not come to this dump of a country. You will be sorely disappointed.

    If you go anywhere in Europe, go somewhere else
    (reply to this comment)

    from Heraclitus
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 20:10


    Come on you guys! Wheres your vandari spirit? I am seriously asking for advice here! Even negative input would be appreciated so long as it was true. If you tried to do what I'm considering and died of starvation or something, I still want to hear about it! Throw me a freaking bone
    (reply to this comment)

    From madly
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 21:33

    Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
    What's wrong with all the advice below... not good enough??(reply to this comment
    From Heraclitus
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 04:28

    Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    No, frankly its not. While I appreciate those few who took the time to comment, I was hoping for considerably more comments, particularly from people in the US. What about you? Perhaps instead of posting stupid remarks you could help me out by answering some of my questions from your personal experience. This is something I'm serious about, with results that will likely be of life or death significance to me.

    I was under the impression that this sort of thing was one of the primary purposes of this website. Do you have some kind of issue with this? (reply to this comment

    From shikaka
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 19:33

    The job sitch in Cali, at least from my perspective, is pretty dire. Nobody is hiring for anything unskilled, such as warehouse, construction, security, etc. My best advice, if youre moving to the west coast, is to go to a temp agency. There are many different types of temp agencies, some that specialize in industrial, or administrative/professional. Theyll test your general knowledge and IQ, and based on that theyll recommend you to companies that are hiring part time or temp positions. This is often a great way to get your foot in the door, as you can prove yourself via work ethic, and often get hired full time.
    If you do this, try to establish a rapport with the manager of temp agency, as if they like you they'll give you preference over the other people in the temp pool.
    There are always going to be openings for service type jobs, restaurants, bars, etc. If you can stand it, its a good way to make enough money to survive, and it has flexible hours for school.
    If youre coming to Cali, you wont be able to survive on anything less than $10 an hour, as this is, in my opinion, a "living wage". If, god forbid, you end up working for minimum wage ($8/hour, youll probably need to get 2 jobs to keep a roof over your head. Go on and find a room for rent as opposed to an apartment. If you dont have any credit you wont be able to get an apartment anyway. You'll be able to find a nice room for $500 - $750 per month, which should include utilities. Expect to work hard and be lonely and broke for awhile before you get on your feet.
    All this is going off the assumption that you dont have any job experience or higher education credentials. If you do, the outlook may be brighter. (reply to this comment
    From Heraclitus
    Thursday, January 22, 2009, 03:48


    Thanks for the input. How is your situation now? Would you say you are doing well? Are you afraid of being fired, or do you feel fairly secure in your job? Do you rent a room or an apartment?

    By the way, what happened to that job offer you posted a while back? (reply to this comment

    From shikaka
    Saturday, January 24, 2009, 12:03

    My situation now is good, I'm salaried at a stable, well-paying job, and I rent a house with 3 other friends. Thats the way to go IMO, Im not a fan of apartments.
    Unfortunately, my company has downsized a bit and aren't hiring any longer. (reply to this comment
    From Heraclitus
    Saturday, January 24, 2009, 21:06


    Good for you! I'm glad to hear that things turned out well.(reply to this comment

    From madly
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 13:49

    No... no issue at all. I just thought there was some good advice below, that's all.(reply to this comment
    From Ne Oublie
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 15:19

    madly, it's been ages! How have you been keeping?(reply to this comment
    From Q to Noobs
    Monday, January 26, 2009, 19:07

    Still deciding to hold on to the krypton until it's too late to help the cult's victims?  Congratulations for your careerism in the cult, for demeaning the resisters and escapers, and I hope the Ayn Rand Kool-Aid is still tasty.(reply to this comment
    From madly
    Saturday, January 24, 2009, 23:24


    I am good, noobles, thanks for asking. Just busy, and trying not to think quite as much these days... I am happier this way, I think. ;-) I hope you are well.(reply to this comment

    from UK student advisor
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 07:18


    If you can get UK citizenship you might try for your IGCSE's, AS/A-levels (you can study these as evening courses or on your own and take the tests as an external candidate - see ;), or, given your age, you may want to take an access course to get you onto the undergraduate programme you want.

    As Sar said, it can be expensive for oversees/non-EU citizens to study in the UK, but if you are a UK/EU citizen who has not resided in the UK or the EEC for the last two years you will only need to pay £3000 per year (£1500 in Wales) in tuition fees, and can get this amount loaned to you (only repayable apon earning over £15 000 per year).

    Unfortunately, in your situation, as you have not resided for the necessary period within either the UK or the EEC; notwithstanding UK citizenship, you will not be eligible for a student loan towards living costs. This may mean that you will have to work and study, but the good news is that the money will not have to go towards paying off your tuition fees. (for further information see ;)

    Additionally, as you are a UK citizen, and depending on how you scored on your access course or A-levels, you may be eligible for maintenance/scholarship grants.

    Choose the object of why you want to go into further education carefully and target your access course/A levels appropriately. You can use American tests such as SATs etc - the British university admission system works on "UCAS points" so find out how many you need for the subject/university you plan on attending. ( see ;)

    Alternatively, you may want to do an "open university" course, which is quite cheap, somewhat respected, and does not require much, if any, proof of prior schooling (provided you can demonstrate ability). I am not very familiar with the open university system.

    (reply to this comment)

    From Heraclitus
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 04:33

    So basically what you're saying is that unless I can either acquire UK citizenship or live in the EU for three years, studying in the UK is pretty much not an option. Disappointing, but good to know. The only reason I asked about it was that I heard rumors during the 90s of American exSGAs moving to Britain to study cheaply. Perhaps it was only gossip. (reply to this comment
    From sar
    Thursday, January 22, 2009, 10:43


    I think fees for foreign students are still lower than their American counterparts, but yeah, certainly a risky option.(reply to this comment

    From sar
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 13:50

    UK student advisor, after having lived in the EU for 3 years prior to study, one can get a full maintenance grant for study in the UK and be spared the cost of tuition fees. No need for citizenship.(reply to this comment
    From UK Student advisor with question for sar
    Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 05:54


    By "spared the cost of tuition fees" do you mean have it loaned or are referring to scholarships?

    I know that there is no need for citizenship for a student loan but I believe that there is a requirement to have resided within the UK for 3 years prior to elligiblity >> see the section "extra help with living costs" at : to this comment

    From sar
    Thursday, January 22, 2009, 10:39

    Neither. There are a few other conditions.  You have be independent and not have money coming in while you're studying. If you can do that, there are grants available.  You don't have to pay it back so it's not a loan, but it's not merit based, so not a scholarship either.  You can get a loan to help with living expenses, which one does have to pay off.  It seems from that page you linked, that that the grants are available to people who've lived in the EU, but the maintenance loans only for people who've lived in the UK.  I'm not sure.  You could always ring them up and ask.  There are EU grants as well, so maybe it would be through that. I don't know.(reply to this comment
    From exfamily
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 09:16

    You could even go straight onto a BA/BSc course without using the Access route if you prefer even without prior qualifications. I did it, I told my university that I didn't have a single academic qualification, that I was homeschooled due to my parents' religious beliefs. I also demonstrated active interest in and knowledge of the field I wanted to study. I had an interview with the head of school and was accepted.

    As for studying and working, classes are in the evening so I am able to work fulltime, which results in zero conflicts between work and study. A perfect setup.(reply to this comment
    From exfamily
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 15:40

    Forgot to say, the reason you *can* get in without prior qualifications is because as a mature student (over 21) the requirements are less stringent. Depends on the uni I guess, and also on the course, as some degree paths may require certain priors regardless.(reply to this comment
    From sar
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 13:53

    Yeah, depends on the uni.  You at Birkbeck then?(reply to this comment
    From exfamily
    Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 15:15

    Yep - how did you know?(reply to this comment
    from sar
    Monday, January 19, 2009 - 13:27


    Full grants are available in the UK if you've been living in the EU for three years prior to starting.  Otherwise, your fees are likely to be about 9000 pounds a year, depending on the uni.  There are lots of scholarships available to Americans studying in the UK, but I don't know much about them.  You would likely have to do A levels or something of the sort before starting uni.  Visas can be difficult to get.  A study visa or a 6 month working visa is easy.  There are too many people with degrees in the UK as well, so its quite difficult to get a good paying job without one.  It'd probably be easier for you to start out in the states.
    (reply to this comment)

    from exfamily
    Monday, January 19, 2009 - 10:53

    Studying in the UK would not be a good option if you aren't a UK/EU citizen, as the fees are typically at least 3 times as high as for citizens.
    (reply to this comment)
    from cheeks
    Monday, January 19, 2009 - 10:20

    Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
    I am a mother of three and have never gotten any education including a GED so I cannot give you any advice in that area. As far as how much does everything cost it really, really depends on where you land. I live in North Carolina and I can feed five people for a month on $500 easily. Granted we almost never eat out.

    As far as jobs go where I live there are jobs and good jobs available if you can find them and lie your way in. Lie, lie,lie is my advice. Lie about your education, job experience and everything. You can usually wing it. Here you can find good affordable housing for $500-600 a month. You will have to have the first and last months rent usually. If you speak a foreign language well, you may be able to get a job in a hospital translating. See if you can get paperwork from the country you are in that says you went to school and graduated. You could even fake that paperwork they have no way to check it. A translating job pays $12-15 an hour easily.
    (reply to this comment)
    from Aaron
    Monday, January 19, 2009 - 09:54

    Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

    As to you question About the Pell Grant.     I've collected it going on 4 semester now at Manhattan CC.   So, I know a bit about it. It pays my tuition and books. I'm taking out interest free Federal Stafford loans to cover rent and public transportation.  I'm 29 now and have been interested in a thorough college education since before I "escaped, defected" in 98',(that's what it felt like)

        Point is, I've been fighting the uphill battle of starting from nowhere, at the bottom, and have(like many of us) not had any relative assistance. I have gone through the tedious process of trial and error, example, trying to work and a thankless job while going to school, impossible, unless sub par grades are acceptable to you.( i get the feeling the aren't) I have held a job and not stoped working since I left the cog (for fear of falling into debt)

     My advice to anyone one is to simply bite the bullit and take out interest free Federal student loans (Stafford,Perkins etc) It's FREE money and will allow you to aquire your education without the impossible hassles of holding down a job, while freeing you up to use all your strength , emotional energy to get the best grades possible.

     I've got about 3 years worth of college and the spring semester coming up will be the 1st where I don't have to work!!!  The hassles of trying to study at a job and commute on the NYC subway system are too much. On top of all this I've suffered from Major Deppresive Disorder, something that lot's of us have to deal with on top of starting at the bottom with no help.

     So no, even public education in the U.S. is not free but proffesional jobs are general available once a degree is aquired.  Pell grants are easiest to get after one turns 24 since ones parent income are not considered in the eligibility process. (since most of us don't have real parents)this doesn't matter and Pell grants can be aquired at any time.

     Federal loans such as Perkins (absolute best deal) do consider your income.   I think the trickiest part of all this is getting financial assistance while making a low enough income to qualify for it. ( and still being able to eat)

       My existence has been bar bones minimalistc post cog.  All the while living with a severe setback. (major depression)  Been close to the abyss. I've looked the devil in the face.  But instead of jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, I'm will be going to Brooklyn College (national respected university)

      Hop this is some kind of help.

    (reply to this comment)

    From Heraclitus
    Monday, January 19, 2009, 18:54


    Thanks for the advice. I admire your tenacity.

    I'm not clear how you got into Brooklyn College though. You said you were going to Community College. Did you do two years of CC and then transfer?

    Also, how much time does CC take every day? I had the impression it was rather low volume, leaving half the day free to work or whatever. Was it like this for you?

    One last thing, if say, you take two years of CC and then transfer to a four year uni, how many years does it take to get a BA? I assume it would take a total of four (2 years CC + 2 year uni), is this correct? Or do you have to take a full 4 years of uni on top of the 2 years of CC? (Wretched!)(reply to this comment

    From Samuel
    Monday, January 19, 2009, 20:17

    CC= Community College?  We consider those to be the firat two years of college which would get you an Associates degree.  And yes, a Bacehlors would take you an additional two years.(reply to this comment

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