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from Eva St John Monday, September 01, 2008 - 11:52 (Agree/Disagree?) I remember in the early-to-mid '90's having a long distance phone conversation (between Australia and the UK) with a 'newly-esacped' young teen (I think his name was John) who, along with several other teens had recently staged a major group rebellion in the Home (Teen Detention Home?) they were in in an Eastern Bloc country.  (Poland??) They actually threatened the adults with violence and had home-made weapons, and then with the help of money sent by somebody's grandmother, they all got out.  They had literally boarded up or somehow cordoned off their wing of the Home and refused to allow any adults to enter under threat of violence.  I remember being deeply impressed by their ability to think for themselves enough to be able to do this, given the way you were all conditioned from babyhood into a state of 'powerlessness' and 'fear of authority', and bullied into 'reporting on' anyone else 'thinking rebelliously'.  But the thing that impressed me most deeply about this phone conversation was when I asked the teen, 'How do you feel?'  There was silence on the other end.  I asked him again.  More silence.  Finally he said to me kind of non-plussed, 'I don't know.  Nobody has ever genuinely asked me that before in my whole life'.   I have never forgotten this converstaion and would love to hear from 'John' or anyone else that was a part of that 'group rebellion'.  I've always wanted to hear the whole story.  Does anyone recall this or is there anyone visiting this site who was a part of that 'coup'? (reply to this comment)

From celestej Tuesday, September 02, 2008, 00:18 (Agree/Disagree?) Really?   That's very interesting.  I'm surprised I never heard about that.  I wonder if it's anyone I knew.  That strangely makes me feel very good- I knew someone had to have been courgaeous and intelligent enough to organize a rebellion.  (reply to this comment)

From vix Monday, September 01, 2008, 14:16 (Agree/Disagree?) It rings a bell.  Might have been the BTC  in Hungary.  (reply to this comment)

From Eva St John Tuesday, September 02, 2008, 14:02 (Agree/Disagree?) Aahh, Hungary.  I think that rings a bell.  What does BTC stand for, B.... Training Camp?  Anyone here know any more about it?(reply to this comment)

From vix Tuesday, September 02, 2008, 14:05 (Agree/Disagree?) Budapest Training Centre, I think.  But I never lived there so I can't be sure.       (reply to this comment)

from cool8pack Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 03:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah! Sounds cool! But have you ever read 'Animal Farm'. History just repeats. Like all these conspiracy theories. So what? Someone has to rule the roost. (reply to this comment)

From celestej Tuesday, September 02, 2008, 00:13 (Agree/Disagree?)  I never got around to reading Animal Farm, although I was in an advanced literature class in high school that had us read Lord of the Flies.  Ever read that one? I agree with you, someone has to be in charge, even in a society made up of only children, and it's often the most tyrannical who ends up on top.(reply to this comment)

from cheeks Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 15:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Isn't that why they had Back on Track? (reply to this comment)

from Twisted Sister Friday, August 22, 2008 - 09:21 (Agree/Disagree?) After sneaking a look at this music video from an electronics shop's window on a busking trip in Shibuya, I always wanted to yell this into my "Shepherd's" face. We're not gonna take it Hell No! We ain't gonna take it We're not gonna take it any more We got the right to choose it there ain't no way we're losin' it This is our life this is our song We'll fight the powers that be just... don't pick our destiny cause... you don't know us you don't belong We're not gonna take it Hell no We ain't gonna take it We're not gonna take it any more Oh you're so condescending You're gall is never ending We don't want nothing Not a thing from you You're life is trite and jaded Boring and confiscated If that's your best Your best won't do We're not gonna take it Hell no we ain't gonna take it We're not gonna take it anymore The kid blowing his dad out of the window with a guitar riff, and metro-sexual metalheads getting in the parents' face was just too cool, for the late 80's, that is. (reply to this comment)

From ange Friday, August 22, 2008, 11:16 (Agree/Disagree?) Too right! I saw them supporting Alice Cooper a couple years back. Amazing! Cheesy music vids, crazy hair ... that's rock and roll. I Wanna Rock is an equally good song. (reply to this comment)

from UpRiser Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 15:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Several of us did rise up.  They beat us, sent us to victor camps, took away our passports so we couldn't travel, isolated us from our parents etc. ... Mene rose up in Berg's compound and they beat her senseless and falsely imprisoned her. Some tried, it didn't work that well, they kept us controlled through terror. (reply to this comment)

From Randi Friday, August 22, 2008, 01:07 (Agree/Disagree?) Those of us who were thrown into victor camps... were labled as "rotten apples." We were humiliated, punished for being humans and shunned by most even our own peers. Now we should see ourselves as some of the only ones that managed to maintain half a functioning brain cell. We were the ones who asked questions, who didnt quite "get it" if you will, who were courages enough not to be bought. They had to "make us"... we did not fold or bend to their crap without a fight and some severe beatings... some never did bend. At least we were harder to mold, at least we can't be blamed for joining in the abuse and humilation in order to escape our own. I am still hurt today by my own peers who turned me in for for example bringing my "outside clothes" in to our "loving and clean abode" and getting beaten for it at 15. For joining in the exposés and tearing me apart publicly with our leaders while I wept and wished I could disappear... just so they could break me and make me understand that I was nothing. That to me is sick... that is something I still cannot understand to this day. Why, why did we turn against each other, why couldn't those young new leaders have a heart?? They must have been molded well! So having said that... no I never fantazised about a joint uprising... the cult managed to make victims turn against themselves and each other... I experienced it first hand. I was afraid of my leaders yes... but I would also never trust my peers. There were very few I thought I could turn to, but I don't remember ever doing so. Though I remembered that in my feeble way, I did try to protect the underdog... those who had it worse, but I couldn't do much. I will say though that because I asked why, I do believe it made a difference, maybe just not one I could see right then. (reply to this comment)

From Randi Friday, August 22, 2008, 01:35 (Agree/Disagree?) One more thing...I do believe that if we all stood up and and asked "WHY?" If we all said "NO!" Then yes, we could have started a "revolution" of some kind... but, the best and most sensible way to start an uprising in a cult is to leave. Don't try to make it better, just get out of there. Leave and then live a great life with dignity and purpose!! That is the most effective "f¤¤k U" anyone can muster.(reply to this comment)

From *hated me* Sunday, August 24, 2008, 20:21 (Agree/Disagree?) I know you hate me for testing your dismissals of media exposes.  I still maintain that if you have not done the grueling work yourself, I don't have any particular attention for your opinion(s). However, you appear to be less distanced from me in your relationship with that stupid cult.  But still very, VERY, naive in media reality.  (reply to this comment)

From Randi Monday, August 25, 2008, 02:18 (Agree/Disagree?) Not sure what you're testing or what you're even talking about...and I can't make heads or tails of the hate issue either Celestej. But education and medication might be worth "testing."   "I don't have any particular attention for your opinion(s)" By attention, perhaps you meant respect... I don't recall asking for it.  All that matters is that you have respect (and of course pay attention to) your own opinions and conduct. If you believe in what you're doing.. that is all that matters from where I'm sitting. I don't have a clue who you are, but Im sure you're a great person, living a respectable life and doing the best you can. "you appear to be less distanced from me in your relationship with that stupid cult." What do those words mean??  (reply to this comment)

From celestej Sunday, August 24, 2008, 22:03 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm sorry, but is this comment directed toward me?  If so I can't imagine where you get the idea that I or anyone else logged on here hates you.  You could be right about my naivetee about the media exposes on the cult (although I believe I'm aware of most of them).  Keep in mind I'm only relaying my personal thoughts and experiences as a youngster in the cult, not anyone else's.(reply to this comment)

from GoldenMic Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 11:08 (Agree/Disagree?) Its funny, I never did consider there was any way out from my cult. My fantasies sometimes included me personally rebelling and leaving, but I never even imagined that I could, or anyone could, actually overwhelm the people in charge. I do remember sometimes seeing or reading about stories of courageous rebellion, even hopeless rebellion, and they deeply effected me, but I didn't realize at the time that I was personally identifying with the issue. Now, of course, after having rebellled and even helped others to get free, these kinds of movies and stories have a powerful effect on me. Thanks for bringing this up. (reply to this comment)

from nope Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 19:28 (Agree/Disagree?) I can't say I have ever seen the film Uprising.  I used to fantasize as a young child about life just plain outside that world. By the way, several brave kids (what you may consider "older teens") did yell a battle cry, we escaped when you were not supposed to do anything else but be a good cultie til death.  Some of us even dared talk to law enforcement.  Change was forced in the group. Ask me, life out of the cult beats running madly around the compound, eating and playing and watching TV to our hearts content.  Now we can do all that, outside the compound. (reply to this comment)

From celestej Thursday, August 21, 2008, 18:28 (Agree/Disagree?)   I do realize that there were many, teenagers and younger, who did rebel- I will always admire and respect you for your courage.   However there is a difference between individual and organized rebellion.  I always felt that had I been older I would have been able to organize some sort of group attack, if you know what I mean.  As in, a bunch of us all together, refusing to go out begging on the street, walking out of "devotions" en masse.  A strike, if you will.  Really, what could they have done about it?  NOTHING.  Especially considering the number of strong teenage boys in many of the homes.  I used to constantly wonder (keep in mind I was a very little girl)  why we were allowing ourselves to be treated this way.  Fear is an extremely powerful form of mind control, particularly used on children, which is why those who did manage to break away and force change are the closest thing I can imagine to modern-day heros.  Kudos to all of you(reply to this comment)

From nope Sunday, August 24, 2008, 20:16 (Agree/Disagree?) You weren't there when or where I was.  The majority, including siblings  of mine, were sycophants.(reply to this comment)

From celestej Thursday, August 21, 2008, 18:30 (Agree/Disagree?)   Amistad is another great one-  It's about slaves who rebel(reply to this comment)