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Getting On : All My Politics

from Stealth - Tuesday, October 16, 2007
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from Stealth
Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 20:33

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

One thing i would like to point out is that people who want to say that the family is in the thores of death are completely wrong,Atleast in Asia theyre going great guns....There is no dowt that they will die out eventually when they are exposed.But that will take time and effort..and whos gonna do the exposing??.....

My only concern is to minimize the damage they cause to others like me and mine,

and to provide a safe dependable escape route along with a little initial support and companionship(contact with other x members) for anyone who has nobody on the outside and wants to leave TF.Everything practical.....I can provide.As forthe emotional support,Some of you have already contacted me and offered your help im glad you did because like baxter said...I would not be able to i can do is be there.Thats all im doing.
(reply to this comment)

from Baxter
Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 04:24

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Why are you so worried about this stuff?

Firstly, no matter how much of an attachment you feel towards this girl, and no matter how much you feel she is decieved ,deluded, etc. she is an adult and she does have the right to choose for herself, regardless of your (or my) opinion of that choice. I genuinely do not understand why or how you think you can change that; furthermore, mate, if she chooses the Family over you, then my friend your full affections are not returned in kind, in which case really should not expend this kind of emotional investment into a person who doesn't feel the same way about you. Sorry to be cold about it, but I have seen this kind of thing before. For one thing, Family girls are practically trained to captivate you in the way that you quite clearly are.

Secondly, what are you so afraid of? If people are still dumb enough to listen, then let them do so. The Family is merely continuing to prolong and delay the agony of it's steadily encroaching slow death. They can deny it all they want to, the Family as an organisation is dying.

Thirdly, who the hell says people who want to leave the Family need your help. The greater number of us who have left have done alright for ourselves without your charity or anyone else's for that matter. Give us some credit for Christ's sake. Just coz we were born into a cult doesn't mean we haven't got any brains or guts. Beyond this, what support do you intend to provide that would really make a difference? You aren't a former member, and no matter how much you hang around them (which brings my next point), you will never know what it was like growing up within that organisation, which means you cannot relate to us.

Fourthly, you're clearly spending far too much time around them. To be frank, it sounds to me like you're becoming obsessed - either with this girl or with the family. If it's the girl: k'mon take it on the chin and walk away, every guy does it at least once in his life, and developing obsessions with women who don't reciprocate them is dangerous; if it's the Family, then like I said, don't lose any sleep over it. It will run its course.

(reply to this comment)

From Samuel
Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 06:06

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Think about it this way, Baxter. If you had had a friend outside The Family, perhaps a girl that loved you and was willing to help you leave, would it have caused you to leave The Family sooner?(reply to this comment
From Baxter
Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 08:04

Samuel, I left the Family almost as soon as I was legally allowed. (reply to this comment
From Stealth
Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 05:13


Well baxter...I sort of get what your trying to say but If she has been decieved and deluded...where is the option of making a rational choice?

All i wanted was to try to explain to her how she was being decieved... from there on it is her choice.

She did feel the same way about me...amd she was a "systemite" from day one,had friends in the family though.she was not trained for anything.

I almost fell into their trap,you dont have to be dumb to listen to them....if you arent very well versed in the bible their programming structure is A grade.If you come to india youll know why im worried brcause they havent yet been exposed by media and it is anything but dying here.

You should not presuppose that it would be as easy for others as it was for you...I dont know about your place but in india it isnt very easy to walk out into the world(espicially if your a woman)get a job and a place to stay without some help.It has nothing to do with guts or brains.....I know a lot of people,I was offering my services for free to those who NEED them.Thats all.I dont have to be able to relate to you.

The girl is either coming back or she isnt..i will try all i can.The family isnt dying a slow death here,and i just dont want others to get hurt like i did.I dont see why you make this seem like a bad thing?!!(reply to this comment

From Baxter
Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 08:01



You firstly assume much of your own intelligence when you assume that those who do not make the same decisions as you do are deluded or decieved. She may be decieved or deluded, but she made a CHOICE, which is what you must respect, regardless of how rational the choice was to you. You yourself have that choice regardless of how rational others judge your choices to be. I for instance find your faith in christianity to be totally irrational. But I don't and haven't judged you for it (much as I would like to).

You appear more than anything to be aggrevated by the fact that this woman left you for them, rather than the fact that she joined the family.

As I said, I find your faith irrational; like most other people on this site, I was made to study the Bible from a young age. To this day i find nothing rational in the pursuit of a lifestyle derived from it (beyond perhaps the simplistic and unoriginal code of conduct inscribed therein). From my point of view, a christian who then listens to the Family's twisted, simplistic and literal interpretations of an abstract mystic tome like the bible, is pretty stupid and frankly deserves to be decieved. Sorry, I just don't have much time for people who take Judaic mysticism reinterpreted by Christian fanatics seriously. If you're going to base your life on the teachings and doctrines of a BOOK, you might take a care to research the history of that book, and the bible's history is a corker. For a person who doesn't read the bible, and who isn't even a Christian to be woodwinked by someone waving a book around saying it can predict the future, I'm sorry to say is pretty darn brain-dead idiotic!!

The reason why the Family is so active in your country is, as i said, attempting to prolong the intevitable; how long do you think it will be before they are exposed in India like everywhere else? They have been doing the same thing for decades, it's nothing new.

Beyond this, DON'T YOU DARE assume that you know anything about my journey out of the Family or that it was easy for me to leave.

(reply to this comment

From Stealth
Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 19:22


Ok Baxter,

Firstly...She made a choice after she was lied to.Forget my beliefs for the moment.There is a difference between judging someone and Informing them(we were told no court cases were won against them,we werent told about the sex with jesus,we werent told about all of berg and marias madness,ricky,Incest,coverups...among other things)I told her the truth yesterday and sent her a few links....The decision IS upto her..

I am more than anything Saddened about the fact that she left me. I am more than anything Aggravated about the fact that this is happening to 100s of other people in my country and they are clueless about the facts,It could be my sister next,or my best friend or my niece.If you have a daughter wouldnt you warn her and her friends?

We all have different ways of looking at things Baxter....I disagree completely with you on the veracity of the bible,and your bible studies governed by the family,yes i have studied its history and hebrew and greek transalations and its history is pretty sound,Dosent mean i judge you or say my way is the only way,Ill hang out with you if youre a nice guy..Be you hindu,muslim,christian or atheist or gay.Most of my friends arent christian.

More than the religion or intellect the familys lure is based on the basic human need of wanting to belong.....your a teenager searching for answers,no one seems to understand sucks...your depressed....Then suddenly these beautiful people ,happy and smiling come along with promises of joy and laughter and freedom,a noble are the Elite!!!they say...Man id jump on that train without thinking if i was 18 or 19.And believe me it isnt the stupid ones that sit and philosophise...

DONT YOU DARE assume you know anything about the journey other family kids in india have to take when they leave,i know one who had to become a prostitute,luckily no pimps around till she made enough money and contacts to become a India If you dont have a degree youll be lucky to earn 10,000(250$) rupees a month without a degree certificate,no official schooling??even harder.and whos gonna give you a roof?and food till you get your 1st months pay?how you gonna get transport to work everyday?Social security..huh whats that???

I know im being a help because i have already been contacted by some kids and some people willing to help my please dont come here and tell me im doing something useless,dont believe in it....go away.No ones stopping you.

(reply to this comment

From steam
Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 07:07

Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I respect what you are trying to do and wish you the best. As far as trying to reach current members "doctrinally" depending how well versed you are this my be the most effective approach. However there are a few things you may need to think through first. Has it irritated you to talk to a member who was raised in the group and to see they just will not follow a logical progression of the facts, and you can tell that there is an emotional factor in what they are willing to believe or not believe? Have you ever thought "if you had been raised with a different set of beliefs what you are saying now would make no sense, basically what you believe is not based on a fundamental truth, but is a factor of into what setup you were born"? Have you thought "there is so much of everything about you including emotions etc tied up in your world view this is a real tough nut to crack." If you have, then I urge you to turn that very same thought process on your own current belief system and think how statistically unlikely you would have your current belief set if you had not been born into a minority religion in India. Please seek out every "doubt" you can about your own beliefs approaching it with equal willingness to accept any outcome. Do not be afraid to really question if there is a God and if so how do you know besides your emotional connection and if there is, does the whole Christian theology follow, etc. If you are determined to be brutally honest with yourself in the process, unafraid to "lose" your faith, and you do come through still a believer, at least you can look at yourself in the mirror square in the face and know what you really believe and why. If you cannot find support for your current thinking then you will grow in new ways even if it is painful. Even if the "truth" does not imbue the world with as much meaning as it would be lovely to wish. The key is having no fear of the outcome whatever it may be. I wish you the best.(reply to this comment
From Stealth
Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 19:46


@Steam Let me start by saying.....That was a brilliant post.Really.

I was born in a christian country has about 2000 caste systems,200 different kinds of philosophies,40+ religions,8+forms of martial arts to start with....Over the last 10 years a huge western influence has also been set into India,I studied B.A Philosophy in college...I only DECIDED to be a christian when i was 24years old after a LOT of searching,....I hope that answers your question about dowts and searching for possibilites.

As for the family methodology...I am not an authority,Im still studying it,thats why i asked for help from those who are willing to give it.As far as my understanding goes you can see a small summary in my reply to baxters last post.(reply to this comment

From steam
Thursday, October 18, 2007, 14:12

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Thank you for your reply. I spent six and a half years in India and although I am sure it has changed a great deal in the twenty years since I was last there I have a solid feel for the religious environment. If you are trying to "witness" to a family member the first thing you need to get them to do is internally make a distinction between "The Family" and God. The approach is explaining that you respect anyone who is sincerely following their beliefs, but in order to know a person is sincere in their beliefs you have to know they have deeply looked at all potential evidence that could factor into it, if one hasn't they would have to admit that part of their reason for believing what they do is laziness or fear. Once they acknowledge they cannot really believe anything unless they are willing to really listen to arguments against it, they have a small crack in their defenses where they may be willing to let down their guard slightly. Next you should talk about how what they really want to do is follow God and they need to be able to look in the mirror and tell their own soul that if they felt God wanted them to leave the group, they would be willing to take any consequences that that would bring, including the loss of friends and loved ones. The one the are accountable to is “the man in the glass” (mirror). This is useful in two ways, one is that if you can get them to honestly picture looking at this possibility in the mirror, they will confront hidden fears and recognize on some level that part of the attachment has nothing to do with their faith. Two they are now entering a mental state where they are allowing a theoretical possibility of God wanting something different than the group, which is something their mind has not done in a long time. You want them to go away re-committing themselves to "Gods highest will" whether or not it is part of the Family’s. If you can create two entities in their mind "God" and "The Group" then even though they are convinced that both line up, every time they hear something from the group they will filter it through a little "that's what the group wants is that what God wants" filter. They will naturally think, “of course that it what God wants this just confirms that the group is following God”. However there may come a day when they go "maybe the group is diverging just a little from God and I looked deep in Stealth’s eyes and swore to him, soul to soul that if that ever happened my priority was God not the group. Any family member reading this will think I am trying to use a clever technique, because I don’t even believe in God, but I mean what I say about respecting anyone who truly is at peace in their beliefs although my take is no one can truly be internally at peace on the soul level if they do not know deep down that they will listen to any doubt and really think through what is said. Anyway that’s my two cents. (reply to this comment
from Stealth
Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 23:49

Once you register in orcut just type my name(Ajit Sigamani) in the search box.
(reply to this comment)

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