Getting On : All My Politics
The Evil Chinese Communist Party
from Rain Child - Friday, July 07, 2006
accessed 1363 times
I was on my lunch break yesterday when I saw a large protest set-up in the city. I went over to have a look, and it was by members of Falun Gong, a small religion in China. What I saw made me cry right there on the spot. I signed their petition, knowing it would do nothing. China's human and animal rights atrocities have been going on so long, and they always make me feel sick. This one is particularly awful, worse than a Stephen King novel. I'm so angry that China is in everyone's 'good books' right now for economic reasons.
The two key sources who revealed live harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners' organs at Sujiatun Concentration Camp spoke publicly for the first time on April 20, at McPherson Square, Washington, D.C. At a press conference attended by hundreds of people, they testified about the CCP harvesting organs from living Falun Dafa practitioners.
Below is the full text of the statement made by one of the sources, Peter:
I am only a common journalist, and The Epoch Times and I first reported together the facts about harvesting organs from living Falun Dafa practitioners in the Liaoning Provincial Thrombosis Hospital of Integrated Chinese and Western Medicine.
I believed originally that through exposing this evil crime, it can be stopped, those who sinned in history can be punished, and the detained Falun Dafa practitioners can be released so that their lives can be saved. This is a most tragic, inhumane crime.
I am quite upset that the CCP has transferred all Falun Dafa practitioners detained in Sujiatun and destroyed the evidence. The CCP has once again deceived the international community and the media, and it has seduced the international community with economic profit, threatening all witnesses, agencies and countries that wish to expose the facts about the CCP's harvesting of organs from living Falun Gong practitioners.
Today is the day that Hu is meeting with Bush, and it is the moment when the global media and the world's people are paying attention to China. I chose to stand out on this day publicly, to condemn the CCP's crimes at Sujiatun. I have no regard for my own life or death. I want to use my life as evidence to expose the sins of the CCP in harvesting organs from living Falun Gong practitioners.
I know the CCP will not leave me alone since I have reported this genuine situation, but I am still willing to stand out and risk my life in order to reveal these facts about the persecution. At the same time, I want to tell everyone, as I have repeatedly told you, that the crimes at Sujiatun are only the tip of the iceberg in the nation-wide persecution. Stealing and selling organs from Falun Gong practitioners and other prisoners is happening in labor camps all over the country.
My reporting the crimes at Sujiatun was in hope of providing ideas to help investigate other labor camps, and calling on witnesses like Annie, who know such information, to bravely step forward. Step forward! I invite all of you to bravely step forward and testify about the crimes of the CCP.
Before and after 2000, I selectively contacted some people in China with different careers and societal backgrounds to collect information from different angles, which helped me gain new understandings of the Chinese government's statements, actions, and current situation.
In 2003, when the SARS epidemic was widespread in China, I traveled from Hong Kong, at the south end of the country, to Heilongjiang Province, at the north end, and witnessed the corruption and dirtiness of the CCP system. I contacted many officials in Shenyang City, Liaoning Province. Their ways of deceit, greed, illegal behavior are beyond the imagination and shockingly evil. The new and old policies that the Central Government has established, the government agencies, the Court system, and the power that is bestowed by the people are all sacrificed when these officials extort people's money. When I contacted these officials, I realized for the first time that an underground camp existed at Sujiatun.
However, it is very difficult to investigate a secret location in such a big city, and to prove its existence. In the past three years, I have consumed large amounts of manpower, material supplies, and financial resources, but have finally found this facility in Sujiatun, where many Falun Dafa practitioners were detained, and their cornea, organs, and bone marrow harvested live, and then their bodies cremated. Even their hair is made into wigs, and their skin and body fat is sold. The remainder of their bodies is then cremated to destroy all evidence. Ladies and gentlemen, can you believe that such crimes are still underway in other regions in China?
I have collected information from websites of organ transplant centers in Tianjin City and Shenyang City in China. The advertising on these sites is aimed at attracting foreign patients to undergo live organ transplant operations in China, providing large quantities of organs.
On the English version of the website of the China International Transplant Network Assistance Center (CITNAC), it is posted that it only takes one week to one month to find a kidney match. Meanwhile in the United States, the waiting period is two years or longer. We all know that kidneys and other organs are very hard to keep fresh, with a window of only 24-48 hours for a kidney, and even shorter for a heart. It is clearly shown on the Tianjin City Eastern Organ Transplant Center website that transplant procedures have largely increased in frequency since 2001.
Some organ transplant experts have expressed that in order to maintain such a quick process of organ matching between patients and donors, there must be an underground channel of live organs existing in the Shenyang City region. Many doctors and nurses who answered the phones in the hospitals and transplant centers in Beijing and Shenyang Cities, admitted openly that the donors are all alive and very healthy, and they even directly admitted that they are Falun Gong practitioners. When specifically asked more questions, they would not talk on the phone, saying that it is a sensitive topic, and "Let us talk after you arrive here."
Informants Annie and Peter in Washington DC on April 20. Their speeches were their first public testimony about large-scale organ harvesting atrocities in China. (The Epoch Times)
Currently there are many flyers posted on the electricity poles about kidney or other organ transplants, and many advertisements appear on the Internet from Transplant Hospitals and Centers in China. China has become a large organ transplant country. The international community has learned that if one needs an organ transplant quickly, one needs to go to China, where such channels exist.
This crime is committed by a network of corporations and participants who steal and sell Falun Gong practitioners' organs. It involves guards in the labor camps, surgeons, nurses, the government officials of the public health system, police officials, central government officials, black market organ traders and overseas organ transplant traders. It is an enormous crime beyond our imagination.
Ms. Annie's ex-husband is a late-stage cancer patient now, and is receiving chemotherapy in a hospital in Canada. He tried to escape China, and did not want to join in the crime of harvesting Falun Gong practitioners' organs, and wanted to quit. He then was warned and threatened. His wife was stabbed deeply on the left side of her stomach when she tried to protect him. He is an orphan of a CCP hero. He confessed to his wife, burned five deep marks onto his arm, and told her all of his secrets. Annie stepped forward to help pay back her ex-husband's sins.
More than one doctor and employee involved in the Sujiatun organ transplant operations have testified that the organs are all harvested from living Falun Gong practitioners.
The CCP's persecution policy on Falun Gong practitioners is that killing is counted as nothing, and that there is no need to verify identities.
I have received many anonymous calls on my cell phone, including some from my previous colleagues and bosses, wishing that I would stop revealing what I have found, so that it could go from being a big incident to a small one, and then from a small one to nothing. I do hope my investigation is a mistake. But even if there is only a one percent possibility that it is true, we should step forward to expose it, and to stop such crimes, crimes that should not be accepted by anyone.
Please also read Going Public About Communist Concentration Camps
Click here to read the original article in Chinese (7/6/2006 15:28)
NEW YORK (Falun Dafa Information Center) – A 45-page investigative report was released Thursday that addresses allegations of organ harvesting from Falun Gong detainees; the Falun Dafa Information Center is calling the report, “vitally important.” Coauthored by former Canadian Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific) David Kilgour and human rights attorney David Matas, the report draws “the regrettable conclusion that the allegations are true.”
Speaking with the press, Kilgour said on Wednesday that, “I don’t think anyone can have any doubt that this unbelievable practice is continuing… They take both kidneys, then the heart and the skin and the corneas and the liver, and your body is then thrown in the incinerator.”
The report identifies the perpetrators specifically as “the government of China and its agencies in numerous parts of the country, in particular hospitals but also detention centres and ‘people’s courts’.”
“The allegations here are so shocking that they are almost impossible to believe,” the report states. “[They] represent a grotesque form of evil which, despite all the depravations humanity has seen, would be new to this planet. The very horror makes us reel back in disbelief. But that disbelief does not mean that the allegations are untrue.”
Kilgour and Matas spent weeks gathering and verifying evidence for the report, interviewing witnesses, and attempting travel to China. The Chinese Embassy did not accede to the team’s request for travel to China for investigative purposes.
The report also details at length the team’s methods of investigation and the process of evaluating evidence.
“Our conclusion comes not from any one single item of evidence, but rather the piecing together of all the evidence we have considered. Each portion of the evidence we have considered is, in itself, verifiable and, in most cases, incontestable. Put together, they paint a damning whole picture. It is their combination that has convinced us.”
The Information Center welcomes the recommendations made in the report—which include diplomatic pressure and stronger measures to prevent crimes against humanity such as organ harvesting in China—and hopes that other governments will join Canadian officials in considering them.
“This kind of independent investigation is absolutely vital,” says Falun Dafa Information Center spokesman Erping Zhang. “These organ harvesting crimes are so horrific that, sadly, what is preventing many organizations and nations around the world from pressuring China to open the doors of its labor camps immediately is the disbelief that such crimes are possible in this day and age. But under the direction of the Chinese Communist regime, they do take place and many continue to die.”
The full report, which includes interview transcripts, can be downloaded at:
# # #
NEWS - July 06, 2006
Falun Dafa Information Center, www.faluninfo.net
OTTAWA (CP) - Calling it a crime against humanity, a new report says China is harvesting vital organs from devotees of the outlawed Falun Gong movement.
Hearts, kidneys, livers and corneas are removed from executed practitioners of the meditative regimen and sold for transplantation at hefty prices, sometimes to foreigners, concludes the report.
Winnipeg human rights lawyer David Matas and former Liberal cabinet minister David Kilgour, who undertook a two-month investigation, acknowledged Thursday their findings were almost too astonishing to comprehend.
"The very horror makes us reel back in disbelief," the report says. "But that disbelief does not mean that the allegations are untrue."
At a news conference, Matas called the practice a shocking "new form of evil" on this planet.
"Who would have believed the Holocaust before it happened?"
Kilgour, former secretary of state for the Asia-Pacific region, said Canadians are among those who have travelled to China for illicit organs.
"It's appalling," he said in an interview. "You don't want to believe it."
The pair conducted the probe as unpaid volunteers at the request of the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong, a Washington-based organization with a branch in Ottawa.
In a statement, the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa dismissed the report as a "groundless and biased" Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours and false allegations."
Kilgour and Matas insist their research was conducted independently of the coalition and any other organization or government.
They were unsuccessful in obtaining visas to visit China to investigate.
Instead, they gathered testimony from witnesses in Canada, the United States, France and Australia, consulted the websites of Chinese transplantation centres, and studied transcripts of Mandarin conversations with doctors and other officials at hospitals and detention centres in China.
"We believe that there has been and continues today to be large-scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners," the report says.
It calls on the United Nations to determine whether China is in violation of the UN protocol to prevent trafficking in persons, which bans organ removal.
Beth Berton-Hunter of Amnesty International Canada said the organization had asked the UN special rapporteur on torture to be admitted to China to investigate.
"Then we'd have a bit more of a broader point of view," she said.
"We're very concerned about the allegations, but we haven't been able to verify them yet."
In July 1999, China's Communist government outlawed Falun Gong, a practice of meditation and exercises with roots in traditional culture that had attracted millions.
Supporters say Beijing, seeing Falun Gong as a threat, has ordered thousands of followers detained and hundreds killed. China denies harming practitioners.
In March, China enacted legislation that took effect July 1 to ban human organ sales and require that donors give written permission for transplantation.
In its statement, the embassy said China has consistently abided by relevant World Health Organization principles prohibiting sale of human organs.
"It is very clear that Falun Gong's rumour has ulterior political motives," the embassy said.
"We hope that the Canadian people will not be deceived by the disguise of the Falun Gong, and more people will be aware of the nature of 'Falun Gong' as an evil cult."
The report says figures indicate about 60,000 transplants occurred in China from 2000 to 2005. Of these, an estimated 18,500 would have come from legitimate sources, the report adds, leaving 41,500 unexplained transplants.
It cites the testimony from the former wife of a surgeon who said he confessed to her that he removed the corneas from the eyes of approximately 2,000 Falun Gong prisoners in 2002 and 2003.
The report also notes a number of family members of Falun Gong practitioners who died in detention reported seeing the corpses of their loved ones with surgical incisions and body parts missing. "The authorities gave no coherent explanation for these mutilated corpses."
The authors say as recently as April, the website of the China International Transplantation Network Assistance Centre listed the following organ prices in U.S. dollars: cornea $30,000, kidney $62,000, liver $98,000 to $130,000, heart $130,000 to $160,000.
The report admits some questions remain unanswered: for instance, who profits from organ sales?
"We do not know who gets the money the hospitals receive. Are doctors and nurses engaged in criminal organ harvesting paid exorbitant sums for their crimes?"
The report recommends countries require doctors to inform their respective authorities of any evidence a patient has received an organ from a trafficked person abroad.
In addition, it urges governments to revoke the passports of citizens travelling to China for organ transplants.
Reader's comments on this article
Add a new comment on this article
|from Rain Child|
Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 02:37
You poor thing, Christian, no wonder you can't get any info, read this:
By Ben Blanchard
BEIJING, July 20 (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research), Google Inc (GOOG.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and Yahoo Inc (YHOO.O: Quote, Profile, Research) have breached the Universal Declaration on Human Rights in colluding with China to censor the Internet, Amnesty International said on Thursday.
The three publicly traded companies are ignoring their own stated commitments -- which in Google's case includes corporate motto "Don't be evil" -- and are in denial over the human rights implications of their actions, the group said.
"All three companies have, in one way or another, facilitated or concluded in the practice of censorship in China," London-based Amnesty said in a report.
"All three companies have demonstrated a disregard for their own internally driven and proclaimed policies. They have made promises ... which they failed to uphold in the face of business opportunities and pressure from the Chinese government," it said.
"This raises doubts about which statements made by these organisations can be trusted and which ones are public relations gestures."
Yahoo defended itself by saying its presence in China, even with the restrictions, could still help open up the country and added that it, too, was concerned by the issue.
"We believe we can make more of a difference by having even a limited presence and growing our influence, than we can by not operating in a particular country at all," Yahoo said in a statement to Reuters.
Calls to Google and Microsoft representatives in China were not immediately returned.
Amnesty said the three companies were in violation of Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which says everyone should be guaranteed freedom of expression.
The group said it was calling on the three companies and other Internet firms to lobby Beijing to release all "cyber dissidents", be open about what filtering policies they operate and promote human rights in China.
Amnesty said some actions the firms had taken, like Google's refusal to offer an e-mail service in China due to privacy-invasion worries, were good, but more action was needed.
In May, Yahoo said it was seeking the U.S. government's help in urging China to allow more media freedom after reports linking information the company gave to Chinese authorities with the jailing of a dissident.
The case was the latest to highlight conflicts of profit and principle for companies in the world's second-biggest Internet market.
Web search leader Google has come under fire for saying it would block politically sensitive terms on its new China site, bowing to conditions set by Beijing.
Earlier this month, China sentenced reporter Li Yuanlong to two years in jail, adding to its list of writers imprisoned for expressing themselves through the country's expanding but tightly censored Internet.
I hope I haven't caused you to be restricted from accessing Moving On because of this article. Placebo, could you e-mail him and ask? If they've blocked this site because of me, I'll erase the article.
(reply to this comment)
Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 01:08
I think they got your message. read this link
(reply to this comment)
Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 15:52
I could be wrong, but aren’t they considered a dangerous cult even by the rest of the world’s standards?
I was always under the impression that they were extremists in their beliefs and almost just as bad as the communist party that they fight.
(reply to this comment)
Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 09:55
The reason the chinese government picked on the Falun Gong is because the FG realised that they were had a larger membership than the CP and tried to exercise their political muscle with predictable results.
Placebo what stories are you talking about? I don't remember hearing any gruesome ones. But then again your chinese was better than mine.
(reply to this comment)
Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 06:06
So China doesn't have any regard for human life...what else is new? The western countries didn't act back in 89 so why would they now when they're making billions off of China's masses.
(reply to this comment)
| From placebo|
Saturday, July 08, 2006, 08:22
I don't know if I should be scared or excited.I'm not condoning what goes on there. I can tell you numerous stories that I heard by word of mouth when I was there that are much more gruesome than what was mentioned in that article.
The fact of the matter is that chinese culture really has no concern over human life, there's 1.2 other billion people right?
The U.S. and other western countries are well aware of what happens, that's why every few years an official says a few words about it at some highlevel meeting shortly before signing the next billion dollar trade deal.
Change if it will come will have to come from inside and that will require the Communist Party being overthrown which will cause extreme turmult and most likely the division of China.I'm not sure if I want that at this point.
but umm back to the important matter.... when you coming to strangle me?(reply to this comment)
|from Rain Child|
Friday, July 07, 2006 - 23:10
One thing the protestors said was that under Chinese law the death of a Falun Gong practitioner under any circumstances is legally considered suicide (The logic being I suppose that in choosing this religion they choose to forfeit their right to live) and so any murder or torture of these people is not legally a crime.
(reply to this comment)
| From Christian|
Sunday, July 09, 2006, 03:07
Well i tried to google this and find out more information and guess what gee whiz its all blocked i cant find anything. Damn censorship i totally agree that the communist party is evil, however id like you to know that Falun Gong are not exactly nice either, they are a cult and not a little helpless religion. However as far as what it says in this article i wouldn't be a bit suprised if it was true because the government could so get away with it, but maybe it would help if we got some info on it.(reply to this comment)
| From Rain Child|
Monday, July 10, 2006, 21:53
Here's an exerpt from that last link...
It does seem rather biased in favour of Falun Gong. They don't do themselves any favours using such dramatic and unprofessional language, but I guess you can't really be objective when you're trying to tell people your people are being murdered.
On June 7, 1999, Jiang Zemin slandered Falun Gong without any basis at a Politburo meeting of the CCP. He classified the issue of Falun Gong as a “class struggle,” labeled Falun Gong practitioners as the CCP’s political enemy, provoked the CCP’s reflex for struggle, and passed orders to set up the “Office for Dealing with the Falun Gong Issue” in the Central Committee. Since it was established on June 10, it is called the “610 Office.” After that, 610 Offices were set up across the country at all levels of government, from the highest to the lowest, to be specifically in charge of all affairs relating to the suppression of Falun Gong. The Political and Judiciary Committee, the media, public security organs, the procuratorate, people’s courts, and national security organs subordinate to the leadership of the CCP Committee serve as the thugs and hitmen for the 610 Office. The 610 Office technically reports to the State Council, but in fact, is a Party organization that is allowed to exist outside of the established framework of the state and the Chinese government, free from any legal restriction, regulation or national policies. It is an all-powerful organization very similar to Nazi Germany’s Gestapo, with powers far above and beyond the legal and judiciary systems, employing the resources of the country as it sees fit. On July 22, 1999, after Jiang Zemin issued the order to suppress Falun Gong, the Xinhua News Agency released the speeches by people in charge of the CCP Central Organizational Ministry and the CCP Central Propaganda Ministry, giving open support to the persecution of Falun Gong launched by Jiang Zemin. All of these entities cooperated under the CCP’s strict organization to carry out Jiang Zemin’s vicious scheme.
So many cases have proven that neither the public security departments, nor the procuratorate, nor the people’s courts have the power to make their own decisions on cases related to Falun Gong. They have to take orders from the 610 Office. When the family members of many Falun Gong practitioners who were arrested, detained and tortured to death inquired and complained to public security, procuratorial bodies and people’s courts, they were told that all decisions would be made by the 610 Office.
However, the existence of the 610 Office has no legal basis. When it issued orders to all organs under the system of the CCP, there were usually no written commands or notifications, only oral communication. Moreover, it stipulated that all those who receive the orders were forbidden from making sound or video recordings or even written notes.
Using this type of temporary arm of the dictatorship is a tactic the Party has often repeated, totally ignorant of the law. During all previous political purge movements, the Party always utilized irregular tactics and set up irregular temporary organs, such as the Central Cultural Revolution Team, to lead and spread the Chinese Communist Party’s tyranny to the whole country.
During its long-term reign of tyranny and heavy-handed ruling, the Party has created the strongest and most evil system of state terror with violence, lies and information blockage. Its inhumanity and level of deceit are at a highly professional level. Its scale and extent are unprecedented. In all previous political movements, the Party was accumulating systematic and effective methods and experience to punish, harm and kill people in the cruelest, craftiest and most duplicitous ways imaginable. In one case mentioned earlier, the husband could not stand the threats and harassment by the police and killed his kind-hearted wife. This is the evil fruit of the CCP’s state terror, including deceit by the media, political pressure, guilt by association, and intimidation, in order to warp human nature and instigate hatred.
Using the Military and National Financial Resources to Carry out the Persecution
The Party controls all state military forces, which allows it to do as it wants, without fear, when it suppresses people. In the suppression of Falun Gong, Jiang Zemin not only employed police and para-military police, but also directly employed armed military forces during July and August of 1999, when hundreds of thousands and even millions of empty-handed common people from all over the country intended to go to Beijing and appeal for Falun Gong. Soldiers were assigned to places inside the city of Beijing. All main thoroughfares to Beijing were lined with soldiers carrying loaded guns. They cooperated with police to intercept and arrest the Falun Gong practitioners who went to appeal. Jiang Zemin’s direct allocation of the CCP’s armed forces paved the way for the bloody persecution.
The Party controls the state finances, which provide financial backing for Jiang Zemin to persecute Falun Gong. A high-ranking officer of the Justice Department of Liaoning Province once said in a conference at the Masanjia Forced Labor Camp of Liaoning Province, “The financial resources used to deal with Falun Gong have exceeded the outlay for a war.”
It is not clear yet how much of the state’s economic resources and the earnings from people’s sweat and toil the CCP has employed to persecute Falun Gong. However, it is not hard to see that it would be an enormous figure. In 2001, information from inside the Party’s Public Security Department showed that, at just the one place of Tiananmen Square, the expense of arresting Falun Gong practitioners was 1.7 to 2.5 million yuan per day, which amounts to 620 to 910 million yuan per year. In the whole country, from cities to remote rural areas, from the police in police stations and public security departments to the personnel at all branches of the “610 Office,” Jiang Zemin employed at least a few million people to persecute Falun Gong. The cost in wages alone may exceed one hundred billion yuan per year. Moreover, Jiang Zemin spent huge amounts to expand forced labor camps to detain Falun Gong practitioners and build brainwashing centers and bases. For example, in December 2001, Jiang Zemin expended 4.2 billion yuan at one time to build brainwashing centers and bases to “transform” Falun Gong practitioners. Jiang Zemin also used monetary incentives to stimulate and encourage greater numbers of people to participate in persecuting Falun Gong. In many areas, the prize for arresting a Falun Gong practitioner was several thousand and even ten thousand yuan. The Masanjia Forced Labor Camp in Liaoning Province is one of the most evil places in the persecution of Falun Gong. The Party once awarded camp director Su 50,000 yuan and deputy director Shao 30,000 yuan.
Jiang Zemin, the former general secretary of the CCP, is the person who launched the persecution of Falun Gong and the person who plotted and commanded it. He utilized the mechanisms of the CCP to launch the persecution of Falun Gong. He bears inescapable responsibility for this historic crime. However, if there were no CCP with its mechanism of violence formed through many political movements, Jiang Zemin would have had no way to launch and carry out the evil persecution.
Jiang Zemin and the Party make use of each other. They risk everyone’s condemnation to oppose “Truthfulness, Compassion, and Tolerance” for the interest of a person and a party. Their collusion is the real reason why such a tragic and absurd crime was able to occur.
V. Jiang Zemin Brings down the Chinese Communist Party from the Inside
Motivated by his personal interests, Jiang Zemin utilized the inherent evil of the CCP to launch the immense persecution aimed at the innocent people who followed “Truthfulness, Compassion, and Tolerance.” He launched a punitive movement against a social force most beneficial and least harmful to the country and society. This persecution not only drags the country and people down into crime and disaster, but also defeats the Party at its very foundation.
Jiang Zemin utilized the Party to relentlessly employ all manner of evil means all over the world to deal with Falun Gong. Law, morality and humanity all suffered great harm, which destroys at the root all credibility for the regime’s maintenance of power.
Jiang’s regime employed all available financial, material and human resources to suppress Falun Gong, which caused an enormous burden for the country and society and huge pressure on the financial system. The Party has no way to sustain the doomed persecution for an extended period of time. It could only use ordinary people’s savings, issue national bonds, and entice foreign investment to keep it going.
During the persecution, the Party and Jiang Zemin have devised all kinds of devious, brutal and deceitful tactics, employing its entire repertoire of treachery and evildoing in order to persecute Falun Gong.
The Party and Jiang Zemin employed every known propaganda tool to fabricate rumors, denigrate Falun Gong, and make excuses for the suppression and persecution. However, no lie can last forever. Once the lies are finally exposed, and when all the evil is revealed by the failure of the persecution and becomes known to all, their propaganda methods will no longer be able to deceive. The Party will lose its credibility and people’s hearts completely.
At the beginning of the suppression of Falun Gong in 1999, Jiang Zemin intended to solve the issue of Falun Gong in “three months.” However, the Party underestimated the power of Falun Gong and the power of tradition and belief. (reply to this comment)
| From Rain Child|
Sunday, July 09, 2006, 22:48
I was hoping to hear from you on this as you would probably have the inside scoop, but of course you get the propaganda there just like we get the 'Bush' propaganda here. Sorry to doubt your word, but I have a suspicion Falun Gong isn't as bad as the CCP is making out. Of course they're going to demonise something they're trying to eradicate. I read a book by a Christian pastor who spent years in concentration camps in China, and that book basically corroborated all the stuff that's coming out now.(reply to this comment)
| From Christian|
Monday, July 10, 2006, 03:39
Well i don't think i can agree with you on the Falun Gong not being a dangerous cult, you should read up articles from all sides. But i'd like to make my point clear that im not defending the CCP they are evil as can be all im saying is that Falun Gong are far from angels. Don't forget that the Falun Gong oppose the CCP and the CCP oppose the Falun Gong and there is propaganda on both sides. This is why im wary to right away believe this article. Falun Gong could easily be making this up as propaganda. That being said as far as atrocities and human rights violations in China i agree complety there is no disputing that the CCP have no regard whatsoever and have commited atrocities in the past and now. Still this article harvesting kidneys and the part about the law that if a falun gong member dies it is legally considered suicide, i can't help but question the validity of it.(reply to this comment)
Friday, July 07, 2006 - 15:53
Horrific. This is only one of the many crimes that the CCP commits against its people. I once read a very detailed NYT article about the Chinese Justice System, it was shocking to the point that it was almost unbelieveable. Their idea of a crime crack-down is little more than rounding up a group of suspects and executing them.
I wonder what one can do to help?
(reply to this comment)
| From Rain Child|
Friday, July 07, 2006, 21:01
Yes, you're right.
I recently read an article about the new Death Vans in China. They travel from village to village killing people who have been condemned to death in the vans. It's a cost-efficient way of administering the death penalty, especially as reports say they only use a fraction of the official dose of lethal injection resulting in a much longer, more painful death for the condemned.(reply to this comment)
| From Captain America|
Friday, July 07, 2006, 22:31
Does it make me a bad American, if I care so much more about the millions of people dying under fucked up circumstances all over the world, than I care about 2 thousand some odd nationals that died at 911?
Cause I gotta be honest, by comparison, I don't give 2 shits about 911, considering that we matched those numbers 10 times over in Afghanistan, and then, for good measure, we matched them 100 times over in Iraq. Yeah, in perspective, 911 was a fender bender, next to the 10 car pile up that has been the supposed "War On Terror".
Does that make sense? Because my peers don't get it. Most americans I encounter don't get it. But hey, I served my country right? I defended freedom right? I've got 2 medals, and expeditionary GWOT (Global War on Terror) and a service GWOT, so I must've done something good, right?
Whatever, I'm probably talking out of my ass right now, as I am drunk. But let me just say one thing; Freedom is a mental state, you cannot put a gun to a mans head, and tell him he is free, you must free his mind first.
I'm really fuckin pissed off right now.
(reply to this comment)
| From Samuel|
Monday, July 10, 2006, 07:47
It's amazing to me how you guys can go from Death Vans to "Bush propaganda", to freeing millions of people in Afghanistan and Iraq, and then bunch it all up in the same place. What gives?
I guess some people have forgotten how the US government made two offers to the Afghani's. Turn over the filthy coward murderer, I mean Bin Laden, and it's over. Our soldiers can rest in their own beds with their wives in peace, and you can rest in your caves with your camels in peace. Deal, or no deal?"
That's right, the US was willing to smooth things over with one of the most oppressive regimes in the world. Give them a soccer field, they saw a place to stone "adulterous" wives.
If you want to be fair, by the way, of course you'd have to say the Afghani government now is just as bad because they too are going after the Taliban.
Then we made another offer in the middle of the fighting! Did anyone catch that on tape? The US doesn't do that very often. "Give us Bin Laden, and we'll reconsider what we're doing to your country."
So the Taliban were killed, those who weren't were driven into hiding, and there was a free election in Afghanistan.
(Who let the dogs out?! [Hoo! Hoo, Hoo, Hoo, Hoo!] Who let the dogs out?!)
Next Stop: Iraq.
Of course everyone remembers when Bush said Iraq wanted to make a dirty bomb, but most people can't remember for some reason when Bush said Saddam Hussein had 48 hours to turn himself in for the crimes he had committed. 48 hours to eat caviar, drink the finest wine, and admire his poster of Mariah Carey. 48 hours to say his goodbyes to his family, maybe even throw one last party, before he had to pay the piper and go to jail for the things he'd done.
But Saddam Hussein decided he'd be better off taking his food and supplies, and Mariah Carey poster, and hiding in a spider hole from the US military. This left the US with no choice but to invade his country looking for him. In the process of finding him and his two sons, they freed the "Republic" of Iraq and opened the eyes of the Iraqi's to free elections like they had never seen before. Not only wasn't Saddam Hussein the only candidate on the ballot, he wasn't on the ballot at all!
My regards to those who have died, on both sides, in the struggle for freedom. And to their leaders who elected to hide rather than protect their people from an invading army, may God have mercy on you.
(reply to this comment)
| From Captain America|
Monday, July 10, 2006, 11:47
Major flaws in your logic:
The US has the right to order a nations to do things on pain of military action, regardless of UN approval? WTF? And then you put the lives of the tens of thousands of innocent people killed at the feet of the dictators that didn't cater to our every demand?
"filthy coward murderer, I mean Bin Laden" Are you sure you mean Bin laden? Cause I'm pretty sure he's jealous of GWB's body count. Or is that "Heroic, Clean, Murder"? What's the difference? Is it because they're brown?
"Give them a soccer field, they saw a place to stone adulterous wives." Sure, muslim have poor civil rights standards, but no worse than many other nations that we neither invade nor sanction, but rather, make millions of their violations of human rights. If you think that Bush or his administration give 2 shits about human rights, your fooling yourself.
"My regards to those who have died, on both sides" You say that as if the score was even. It's not, not by a longshot. Our losses are nothing compared to the damage we have inflicted.
Seriously though, I'm sorry for jumping topics like that, I was drunk and had the subject heavy on my mind, but what did you think you would achieve by coming with you "set the record straight attitude" with a view lines of tired rethoric. Do you think I'm an idiot? Do you think I just wised up to the situation yesterday? This has been a major factor in my life since it all began. I have sacrificed so much over this nonsense, not to mention very dear friends of mine that sacrificed their lives. Do you consider these things when you shoot your mouth off about things you have no real understanding of? I guess not.
(reply to this comment)