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Getting On : All My Politics

The Album "The Bible"

from Mir - Thursday, April 01, 2004
accessed 3398 times

Does anyone remember the album "The Bible" which old Berg banned because it was "too cool"?

I happen to have a perfect copy on CD, which someone gave to me recently. Listening to it now I realize how well done and professional it is and I was wondering if there was anybody out there who knows for sure who produced it and owns it. Some of the singers are Joan of Arc, Jonas, Simon Black, Micah Teddy Bear, Demis Russos and Jean Manson (the last two were not in the CoG). If anyone is interested in listening to it email me at mir302_mcg@yahoo.co.uk

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from booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 17:41

(Agree/Disagree?)
I have an original LP of the album. I have not been able to burn it on to CD yet. I don't have the equipment to do that. If there is enough interest in it I will have it burned onto a CD and then make some copies. If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me. I have the complete two album cover with all the information. Just let me know what you want.
(reply to this comment)
From roughneck
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 19:33

(Agree/Disagree?)
Some scans of the album cover &/or "official" track names would be cool for xfamily.org (where you can get the Bible Album on burning-to-CD-friendly mp3 already)... :)
(reply to this comment
From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 23:01

(Agree/Disagree?)
I’ll try to complete the list before hitting the enter button now….
Here’s the list of tracks as listed on the inside album cover:

Old Testament
Biblical Event
Title or Character Sung by
1/The greatest story Creation Micah
2/The garden of love Adam and Eve Simon and Joan
3/Cain and Abel Cain and Abel Jonas
4/Noah The Flood Sam
5/Father of Faith Abraham and I Simon
6/They’ve got to be free Exodus Jonas and Jeremiah
7/The Commandments Laws of Moses Sam
8/Beyond the years 40 years in the Jeane Manson Wilderness
9/The land across the river The promised land All
10/Love will grow Ruth Joan
11/Perfect Man Job Kirk
12/Shepherd Boy David Joan, Micah, and Jonas
13/I will not fear David Simon
14/All is vanity Solomon Demis Roussos
15/Prophet of Doom Jeremiah Jeremiah
16/Opening the book Daniel Kirk, Micah, Michael
17/Build it again Return from Captivity John
18/I can hardly wait Isaiah Micah
for the day

New Testament
19/There is born a child Birth of Jesus Jeane Manson
20/Change your ways John the Baptist Jeremiah
21/Come and follow me Calling the disciples Jonas
22/Words from the mountain Sermon on the mount Micah and Jonas
23/Born again Jesus and Nicodemus Jonas and Simon
24/Law of Love St John Chapter VIII Simon
25/I hope you know Cleansing the temple Jonas
26/Let not your heart Last supper Jonas
be troubled
27/What did he do to you? Betrayal and trial Micah
28/Thy will be done In the garden of Jonas
Gethsemane
29/It is finished Crucifixion Kirk
30/He is risen Resurrection Sam, Joan, and Jonas
Tell the whole world Great commission All

There are pictures inside the cover of Kirk, Jonas, Windy, Micah, Michael, Demis Roussos, Jean Manson, Simon, Joan, Jeremiah, Paul Buckmaster, Andre Djaoui, and Martyn Ford.

Paul Buckmaster, Martyn Ford, and Nick Harrison did the arrangements on various songs.

Musicians: Ray Russel: Acoustic and electric guitar. Hugh Burns: acoustic and electric guitar. Ann Odell: grand piano, clavinet. Tony Hymas: grand piano, clavinet, rhodesfender and hammond organ. Scott McClurg: grand piano. Paul Buckmaster: synthesizer. Francis Monkman: synthesizer. Paul Westwood: gass guitar. Doni Harvey: bass guitar. Dave Marquee: bass guitar. Alan Jones: bass guitar. Simon Phillips: drums. Farry de Souza: drums. Brother James: congas. Ray Cooper: congas, tambourines. Moris Pert: tambourines, tympani, shakers, cabaza, zulu bells, cowbells, tubular bells, bell tree, vibraphone, crotales, windchimes. Graham Prescett: solo Violin. John Marson: Harp.

Color illustrations by Andrzej Malinowski
Libretto illustratons by George Misrany, Etiene Morel Eman
(reply to this comment
From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest story (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The greatest (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The (reply to this comment

From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 22:24

(Agree/Disagree?)

Its too big for my scanner. I'll go to Kinkos and see if they can hook me up. Here's some info.

Old Testament

1/The (reply to this comment

from Martyn Ford
Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 16:38

(Agree/Disagree?)

I would love to get hold of a CD copy of this album. As I consider this to be some of the best work I have ever done, and it should have been a huge international hit, I would like to be able to play it more often. I have both vinyl and tape.

Martyn Ford.
(reply to this comment)

From MusicFan
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 19:42

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Great job with "The Bible", that was one of the better collections of music we had. Sadly, most of the copies were 4th or 5th generation cassette tapes played through cheap walkman headphones.

It would be nice to hear a good copy played on a good sound system sometime.

Track 9 on the New Testament is particularly good. This was the first song I ever heard slap-bass on.

You know track 7, the "...let he who is without sin cast the first stone" song, the way Uncle Ricky (Jaziz) originaly wrote it, it ends with the loose woman going and reading what Jesus wrote on the ground and finding that it says: "I'll see you in my apartment on the other side of town."

LOL, they changed it for the official version to "I'd forgiven your sins too, if you'd only stuck around".(reply to this comment

From Mir
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 11:34

(Agree/Disagree?)

Martyn,

Let me know if your download is not successful. I'll post you a copy if it isn't. That album is super. We all suspected that someone from the "system" must have been involved as it's so bloody good! Far, far FAR better than anything anyone in the CoG can put together!(reply to this comment

From roughneck
Tuesday, July 05, 2005, 17:27

(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know about where to find an official pressing of the Bible Album, but if you don't mind downloading mp3s and burning them to CD...

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Bible_Album(reply to this comment
From ameliaus
Tuesday, July 05, 2005, 21:16

(Agree/Disagree?)
good clear connection...the first and last cuts on the old testament are good music...unbelievable that he banned this!!! what a crossroads, what a missed opportunity.

skipped around, some are less good, but it is crazy that this work could have been seen by anyone as counterproductive to anything.(reply to this comment
from Mir
Monday, April 05, 2004 - 05:07

(Agree/Disagree?)
Cheers guys for all the info shared, especially you Spat. I'm more than happy to give away copies but I don't want to get done for anything illegal. Does anyone think I'll get in trouble? If anyone is interested, just email me at my yahoo email address and I'll see what I can do for you...
(reply to this comment)
from Dani
Friday, April 02, 2004 - 17:20

(Agree/Disagree?)
When Simon Black left the home in the south of France Chris and me had to job of getting rid of any music he had left ( hee hee), sadly it got confiscated two years later. The bastards smashed and burnt the first copy after of session of fake tears and heart sharing my best friend ratted on me and the second copy got smashed and burnt as well.
(reply to this comment)
From cheeks
Saturday, April 03, 2004, 08:40

(Agree/Disagree?)
Damn. You should have told me I had a bootlegged copy of yours.(reply to this comment
from sarafina
Friday, April 02, 2004 - 13:42

(Agree/Disagree?)
Now I want a copy!! (just for kicks of course) I used to love that CD it got me through JJT every day there for a while. I remember having "The Bible Album" on one side and actual scripture on the other and we had those walkmans where with the flip of a button you could change sides. Let's also not forget Jeremiah Singer who sings and wrote a few songs on there. That has to deffinitly go in to my collection of memories box.
(reply to this comment)
From lacy
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 08:59

(Agree/Disagree?)
I could never forget Jeremiah Singer. I had a huge crush on him in India when i was a kid, I thought he was amazing and I still love his voice. Yea , he wrote some good stuff , for it's time, and it's so sad he died. I also snuck a copy on tape into the PR teen-home in 1991, but was too scared to ever bring it out from the bottom of my suitcase for fear I'd get it taken away from me. I worshipped that album with my life, thought it was the best thing I ever heard. One day I came back from witnessing to find that the shepherd's decided to do a surprise purge day and went thru all of our stuff while we were out. Took letters, addresses and pictures and were burning them, but I didn't see my beloved Bible album tape anywhere, so I thought they missed it. The next day, we were having a prayer meeting and they had a tape player set up to record the prophecies. Halfway thru someone asked me to flip the tape and that's when I saw my Bible album. They were using it to record over!-I think I was depressed for a week. I knew I wouldn't get another copy anywhere. (reply to this comment
From katrim4
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:42

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I would love to have a copy of that CD. It would make a great gag gift for my dad. He used to get so mad at us for listening to that album. We had some old bootlegged copy that we would blare until the neighbors across the street from us came over one day and asked if we were the COG. They had recognized the music and just wanted to confirm. That was in the late '80's before the family had their "coming out" revolution. All that to say.......no more "The Bible" for us. All of our copies were promptly confiscated. He probablly wouldn't get a kick out of it, but I sure would.

How much are you charging?(reply to this comment

From sarafina
Friday, April 02, 2004, 15:14

(Agree/Disagree?)

I don't have one I was saying I want one but I just got off the phone w/ a friend of mine who has one and she is going to send me one. When I get a copy I'll burn one for you also. My charge will be four hugs and two kisses when I see you (and make them good ones he he ;)(reply to this comment

From sarafina
Friday, April 02, 2004, 15:14

(Agree/Disagree?)

I don't have one I was saying I want one but I just got off the phone w/ a friend of mine who has one and she is going to send me one. When I get a copy I'll burn one for you also. My charge will be four hugs and two kisses when I see you (and make them good ones he ;)(reply to this comment

From night_raver
Friday, April 02, 2004, 13:57

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
LOL how could I forget my 5th generation bootleg copy, and yes Auto-Reverse was my salvation. Funny to think back how fun it was to listen to attrocious bootleg recordings -- then they'd have surprise bag searches and I'd sit there biting my lip as they went through my suitcase, hoping they wouldn't feel a bump the shape of a cassette in the lining. (reply to this comment
From Wolf
Saturday, April 03, 2004, 00:13

(Agree/Disagree?)
The grown ups must’ve been pretty thick in your neck of the woods. They caught on to the auto-reverse trick pretty fast where I was at.(reply to this comment
From Spat
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:31

(Agree/Disagree?)
Lol boy do I remeber those days, everyone wanted a reversible I mean even Brian got one :-)(reply to this comment
from Spat
Friday, April 02, 2004 - 11:54

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Yes the Fam has republished both "The Bible" albums again, the music is pretty extraordinaire. I believe the production is the property of a British label named Polydor.

The recording took place sometime between 1975-1977 in Collaboration with the Martyn Ford Orchestra; it was produced by the Orchestra duo of conductors Paul Bucksmaster and Martyn Ford, recorded at Trident and Air Studios in London.

It was really and avanguard musical piece at the time, and had some moderate success, Berg was not too thrilled because he lost all control over the creation/musical context/lyrics (berg mostly favored old hymns specially if sung by him) and most importantly economical proceeds. He since panicked and wrote a couple of letters in facto prohibiting any further contact and/or production by all Fam musicians. He accused them of attempting to live a privileged life, not one of sacrifice like the rest of "the flock" and of seeking personal glory, something he felt only he was entitled to, lol!!!
The Fam has had to slowly move away from Bergs thinking on music, my conclusion is they decided young folk would eventually demand better quality music with beats they could actually relate to, so in their pursuit of the lesser evil the Fam cast aside Bergs dislike for “African beats out of hell” and conceded that listening “Jerusalem” was far better for the Fam’s interest than them listening to Pearl Jams “Jeremmy”. Thus the reinsertion of The Bible album into the cult’s music chest to help complement Vas’ best efforts to replicate the systems “thrash” with lame ass rip off imitations of true musical geniuses.



(reply to this comment)

From Benz
Saturday, April 03, 2004, 02:01

(Agree/Disagree?)
I wonder if the fam might try and put out a "Bergorian Chant", from all the "days of heaven" etc tapes.

- That would be REAL good!!(reply to this comment
From Jerseygirl
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah--and the Bee Gees gave Berg the heebee geebies. System music was all evil and "devil inspired" until the lame family musicians needed a quick catchy melody to promote their stupid message and used those same "uninspired songs" to do it. (reply to this comment
From agreed
Friday, April 02, 2004, 23:30

(
Agree/Disagree?)

all berg liked was the 'oldie goldies.' for awhile (when I was about 8) the banana boat was my favorite song.

btw, i'd love a copy of 'the bible.' when i was a 'rebelious' teen i just loved it!(reply to this comment

From &^%$
Friday, April 02, 2004, 15:00

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Aargh yes, and my all-time unfavorite plagiarized song is the Battle Hym of the Revolution! It was written as the Battle Hymn of the Republic, USA that is, for one of its wars. And they had the nerve to unveil this at the Mexico TTC as a special song for the endtime teens...a song composed about so-called "Babylon the Whore"! They never were models of consistency.(reply to this comment
From roughneck
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 10:07

(Agree/Disagree?)
Actually, it's basically just the title that's copied in regards to that particular song. The Battle Hymn of the Republic (i.e., the Civil War hymn) doesn't use the same words or tune as the truly awful (and difficult to play on the guitar at Inspiration Time) Battle Hymn of the Revolution. I don't remember the Family's dirge having much to do with Babylon the Whore either for that matter. I'm not saying that Family musicians/artists/writers aren't unoriginal plagiarizing bastards (they are), just that they didn't rip off that particular song the way you think they did. ;)

For anyone that doesn't remember, the first verse of the Battle Hymn of the Republic goes:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on!

The hymn's tune itself was plagiarised, however, being ripped from a then-popular song called "John Brown's Body". The Battle Hymn of the Republic's lyricist, Julia W. Howe, supposedly liked "John Brown's Body" for its marching tempo.

Anyone know if there's any truth to the Family's Battle Hymn song having the same tune as the Philippine Army's anthem? I heard a pretty crazy story about The Family's involvement (think FF-ing) with that musical decision at one point, but I don't know how credible it is. -nor can I remember where I heard the story from either. :(
(reply to this comment
From
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 11:02

(
Agree/Disagree?)

I never said that Family song had much to do with "Babylon the Whore." What I said (which you are assuming is wrong) is that I was shocked to know TF had ripped off a melody that was actually a patriotic song for America, which they called "Babylon the Whore." Please let me know if you need me to explain this further.

I'll grant that you have good Google skills and it seems I got the title mixed up because the Family song has a title very similar to that a different System song.

However, there is an American patriotic song that has the EXACT tune of the Battle Hymn of the Revolution (or more accurately the other way around) -- maybe the System (i.e., the original) song has a different title and my source gave me bum info about its name.

I was having dinner with my "source" at a restaurant where all the waitstaff were opera/broadway style trained singers and would periodically break into a song then go back to serving. Suddenly they started: "Ba, bapada, bapada, bapada, badabada, badabada, ba-pada, da-da-da" (sorry, doing my best without notes). Of course, the lyrics in this version said nothing about "David Our King." I got a nasty flashback and didn't finish my Penne alla Vodka.

Then again, maybe my waiters had been to the TTC and were copying a song that had really inspired them and stuck because you know, that helmet...

The Philippine thingy is that Berg had Hart and co. write a Hymn for the generals plotting to coup.(reply to this comment

From roughneck
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 11:37

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
A couple things here:

Why are you posting anonymously? Just curious, as the discussion hasn't meandered into anal sex, circumcision, or degrading personal sexual experiences...yet. Just wondering why I must post a reply to a blank nickname on such a vanilla subject as Civil War songs is all... 'tis not a big deal.

Secondly, if you didn't mean to say that The Battle Hymn of the Revolution was taken from The Battle Hymn of the republic and was about Babylon the Whore, perhaps you shouldn't have worded your statement thus:

"...the Battle Hym(sic) of the Revolution! It was written as the Battle Hymn of the Republic, USA that is, for one of its wars. And they had the nerve to unveil this at the Mexico TTC as a special song for the endtime teens...a song composed about so-called "Babylon the Whore"!" To anyone who reads English, clearly you are saying that they unveiled the Battle Hymn of the Revolution, a song about Babylon the Whore (originally written as the Battle Hymn of the Republic) at the Mexico TTC. I realise you were trying to highlight the dichotomy of The Family on one hand claiming to hate America and everything it stands for, and ripping off American patriotic tunes with the other, but you are/were as clear as mud. If you can't stand being called on shit like this, pay attention to your writing, damnit! ;)

You could very well be correct (in fact, I'm almost certain you are) in saying that TF took another song and used its tune for their song, I'm just saying that you are 100% incorrect that the tune &/or words taken were from The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

Finally, yes, my google skills ARE first-rate, thanks for noticing. But I actually gleaned that particular nugget of information regarding the creation of that song from the People's Almanac, (Wallechinsky & Wallace, 1977 edition) which resides in a special place of honour above my throne. I did, however, google the proper words to the Republic's Battle Hymn, as I seem to recall it too being bastardised/adulterated by Family lyricists too. Whooptee-shit for me, eh?(reply to this comment
From Lord Forgive Me
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 11:52

(
Agree/Disagree?)

What I should have written is "[...] as a special song for the endtime teens WHEN IT HAD ORIGINALLY BEEN a song composed about A COUNTRY THE COG HAS called "Babylon the Whore"!"

So LHM, I am guilty of posting as if I were conversing and not composing an Essay. Also guilty of being "100% incorrect that the tune &/or words taken were from The Battle Hymn of the Republic."

But when I said it was taken from The Battle Hymn of the Republic, I thought that was the title of a song with the melody of The Battle Hymn of the Revolution.

This is probably only a big deal if you were a hapless 13-year-old being manipulated into being a good cultie with songs that turned out to have stolen melodies.
(reply to this comment

From roughneck
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 12:49

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Hehe, yeah, you'd still have been wrong, but at least you'd have been less ambiguous about what you were driving at. I don't suppose it's any comfort to note that what you originally wrote isn't clear even when used in the most abstract colloquial way possible, is it? :)

(Former) hapless 13-year-old? Manipulated into being a good cultie with songs that turned out to have stolen melodies? Check and Check. What else you got? (Not entirely sure I want the answer to that.. :D)


(reply to this comment
From omg
Friday, April 02, 2004, 23:32

(
Agree/Disagree?)
..."Who will take the stand and fight to free those caught in the ....wtf...."(reply to this comment
From exister
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:57

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeah, the Bee Gees creeped him out because of that "traumatic testimony" that Jeremy Spencer told about Barry Gibbs agreeing to become David Geffen's fuck toy so the Bee Gees could score a record deal. Ever the pedophilic, incestuous homophobe that one.(reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:03

(Agree/Disagree?)
Not to quibble over insignificant details, but I believe the recording was done in 1978.(reply to this comment
From booger
Saturday, August 13, 2005, 18:04

(Agree/Disagree?)
The copyright on my album cover says 1977.(reply to this comment
From Spat
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:13

(Agree/Disagree?)
Could be you are correct but if you check the following link the copyright was issued in 1977, I am not 100% sure of how it works but I believe copyrights for albums are given in the year of their completion, maybe one of the lawyers on this site could clarify.
Another point is I believe the period was prior to the RNR which happened 2 months or so after I was born in Jan 1978.
http://users.erols.com/mantis2/cf.html(reply to this comment
From exister
Friday, April 02, 2004, 13:05

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

More Vas bashing, excellent! Aren't all christian/cult rockers just sorry plagiarists of original talent.

There were many lame ripoffs of the Eddie Veder sound in the post grung phase of the mid to late 90s, but that dude from Creed (I refuse to afford him the dignity of recalling his name) has got to be the lamest of all. I theorize that strong religious beliefs emasculate peoples originality and blind them to their own creative piracy. (reply to this comment

From Spat
Friday, April 02, 2004, 13:28

(Agree/Disagree?)

X, I beg to differ from you here Scott Stapp and the Creed band may sound a lot like Pearl Jam, but “My Own Prision” ranks right up there as one of the top grounge records ever right next to Nevermind (Nirvarna), 16Stone (Bush), The bends (Radio Head) and of couse Ten.

My Own Prision was actually originally produced in their own garage, and they only cut a deal after their songs where ranked # in most southern states, the lyrics and music on the album are charged with their frustration and anger at being overlooked by the industry and they do a great job of focusing that energy into some angry music which I love

I believe that Genres might sound alike sometimes but in this case their music is unique

(reply to this comment

From exister
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:36

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Scott Stapp? Is that the name of that self absorbed wannabe grunge front man. Creed is not nor will it ever be a grunge band. They are clean remember? Washed in the blood of the lamb. This precludes them from being grungy. And to rank them with the paragons of grunge that you listed (Radiohead excluded, see below) is an insult to the genre.

As for Radiohead, they are first of all not grunge but rather alt rock. They are one of my all time faves, so if your taxonomy were correct I would be taking much bigger offence to this post. Finally "The Bends" is good, but not their best. I would reserve that distinction for "OK Computer," though I may just feel that way because I listened to it for hours on end with my eyes plugged into a monitor. (reply to this comment

From Spat
Friday, April 02, 2004, 15:01

(Agree/Disagree?)
I stand corrected in regards to Radiohead's Genre, I have allways believed that record (the bends) contained a lot of Grounge's elements but after looking reviews over online not 1 refers to it as a grounge album. (reply to this comment
From exister
Friday, April 02, 2004, 15:04

(Agree/Disagree?)
Start using "grunge" or I am going to grounge you! :-)(reply to this comment
From Spat
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:45

(Agree/Disagree?)
Creed is not and has never professed to be a christian band(reply to this comment
From exister
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:53

(Agree/Disagree?)

A quote from your boy Scotty:

"I can’t sit here and tell you by the letter of the law whether I am a Christian or not"

You may be right, though maybe he is a closet Christian. He sounds lukewarm to me, and maybe someday Christ will "Spat" him out. In the meantime I will assume the worst and call him a Christian. And don't talk to me about his faux angst because I don't buy it.(reply to this comment

From Jerseygirl
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:45

(Agree/Disagree?)
Radiohead is not grunge, as you have said, therefore can we just not lump them into this dicussion? It's offensive to their number one admirer--moi. And if you're still stuck on OK Computer, which is not a bad thing, may I suggest you try their latest: All Hail to the Thief; not only an excellent record but it was an outstanding concert as well.(reply to this comment
From exister
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:46

(Agree/Disagree?)
I have all of their records and "OK Computer" is still my fave, stuck or not. Nice to see another Radiohead fanaticus.(reply to this comment
From Dani
Friday, April 02, 2004, 17:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
I saw them live in Glastonbury, it was amazing. (reply to this comment
From night_raver
Friday, April 02, 2004, 14:10

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I agree Creed ranks next to Nirvana, but it doesn't hold a candle to Smashing Pumkins. Dont get me wrong, I think Kurt Cobain was good, but nowhere near the musical genius some equate him with. If Billy Corgan were to suddenly die, the dedications to Billy, diehard fans, etc, would easily eclipse all the dumbass Cobain fans. (reply to this comment

From Christian
Thursday, October 21, 2004, 11:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
What the hell? That is blasmphey Creed as good as Nirvana? What are you on? Creed sucks and will never equate to a hundreth of Nirvana's greatness. Kurt was the best rocker that ever lived and will ever live!!!!(reply to this comment
From Dani
Friday, April 02, 2004, 17:24

(Agree/Disagree?)
Billy's new band sucks. (reply to this comment
From Spat
Friday, April 02, 2004, 16:50

(Agree/Disagree?)

Crawler,

Curt not only stole Billy's girl one on one the contest is not even close as far as fan base goes.(reply to this comment

From *
Friday, April 02, 2004, 17:27

(
Agree/Disagree?)
She's been with all of the grunge boys.(reply to this comment
From Nancy
Friday, April 02, 2004, 16:27

(Agree/Disagree?)
Smashing Pumpkins: "despite all your rage, you are still just a rat in a cage..." I love that song!(reply to this comment
From Joe H
Friday, April 02, 2004, 19:08

(Agree/Disagree?)

Oh my god thank you Nancy! Now I finally know what that song says. For about two years I thought it was "still just ready to cage" (I just assumed Billy had bad grammar and had invented a verb "to cage"). Then I thought it was "rattlin' the cage". Finally, the truth has set me free!

Smashing pumpkins fucking suck though.(reply to this comment

from Ne Oublie
Friday, April 02, 2004 - 09:09

(Agree/Disagree?)

As teens we were actually able to get away with listening to The Bible quite a bit, as one of our 'shepherds' had been involved with the recording of that album, and so showed leniency in allowing us to play it.

I don't know any specific names, but I do know that it was recorded in studios in London with the arranging, directing and orchestration all being provided by non-COG members. I'm not sure if the rights were/are owned by Les Enfants de Dieu (forgive my French) or by whoever their managers/recording label were at the time.

Is that what you were asking about?
(reply to this comment)

From The Bible Fan
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 06:34

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Of course the ochestra & arrangement of the ochestra parts were arranged by non-fam, but that's not all that went into the music being great. The songs were composed by family musicians & song/vocal arrangements were also done by a few famliy musicians. Mainly Michael Listen & Chronicles, etc. They also played instuments on the album, like organs, keyboard, guitars & bass, etc. The head producers & actual technicians were not in TF.(reply to this comment
From Haunted
Friday, April 02, 2004, 10:19

(Agree/Disagree?)

Don't know if this is relevant, but TF recently (last few years) 're-did' the Bible album onto 2 new CD's. Someone who is was still 'in' at the time gave them to me as I'd always liked it. It was pretty funny listening to it again - brings back a lot of memories although some of the scripture songs were a bit much. (reply to this comment

From Vicky
Friday, April 02, 2004, 12:06

(Agree/Disagree?)

My husband heard the song "All is Vanity" (sung by Demis Roussos) played on radio a while back, and the presenter wondered what had happened to that band...

Also, not sure if this is just folklore, but I think Phill Collins played drums on a couple of the songs. Not that that does anything for the coolness aspect!(reply to this comment

From Regi
Friday, April 02, 2004, 23:38

(Agree/Disagree?)
I also heard that Phil Collins played the drums.....at the time I thought it was so cool!(reply to this comment
From Martyn Ford
Tuesday, July 05, 2005, 16:36

(Agree/Disagree?)
Phil Collins did not play drums on The Family album. The world's greatest drummer, Simon Phillips, did. It is true that Genesis were recording next door while we were recording "The Bible". Greetings. Martyn Ford(reply to this comment
From lacy
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 09:09

(Agree/Disagree?)

Martyn Ford, Was Simon Phillips in The COG at the time?- and is he the same person as Simon Touchstone?? I think that was his name in the Family and I also heard he died not too long ago.(reply to this comment

From roughneck
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 10:49

(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't think Simon Phillips was ever in The Family/COG.

Interestingly his online discography incorrectly mentions his work on The Bible Album as being part of a Soundtrack to the film "The Bible." Whoops! :) http://www.simon-phillips.com/disco/disco.html#S . I see he played on Jeremy Spencer's "Flee" album as well. (Now _there's_ a rare album... :P)

The only reason that the Bible Album sucks so little (comparatively) is that it isn't really homegrown "Family" dreck at all. I still recall to this day a certain CRO telling us how the latest FTT's synthesized percussion-in-a-can was superior to the real live drums on the Bible Album. Eeeyuuuh. Sure Cephas, if you've got cotton in your ears and water-on-the-brain perhaps. With certifiable eejits like that at the helm, is it any wonder Family music definitively sucks?

Ah, Family Teen Tapes/CDs: Music to lobotomize yourself to. ...now where did I leave that icepick? I think I'm up for some Wizard of AAAAAAAAARGH!!!(reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 09:46

(Agree/Disagree?)
If I'm not much mistaken it was Solomon Touchstone. I've met him a couple of times over the past couple years... hadn't heard about his death though, any idea how it happened?(reply to this comment
From I know all about the Bible Album
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 15:12

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Guy's, Solomon Touchstone & Simon Philips are totally NOT the same person. Simon Philips is a famous drummer who plays with some of the best bands of all time. He also did play on the Bible album. I know for a fact.

Solomon Touchtone was pretty good too.(reply to this comment

From lacy
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 11:46

(Agree/Disagree?)

You're so right, Solomon Touchstone... I knew that sounded wrong somehow. I used to think he was a good drummer. You have seen him recently? I seem to have heard somewhere that he died of cancer or something but I could be completely wrong. (again).

(reply to this comment

From xolox
Tuesday, July 05, 2005, 20:50

(Agree/Disagree?)

Please tell me there is more than a faint hint of sarcasm when you fling that title around.

Btw, have you ever seen Dennis Chambers play? That man is one hell of a drummer.(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Tuesday, July 05, 2005, 23:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
Do you even know who you're talking to? This is the man who conducted the orchestra during the recording of the album. I think he may know what he's talking about. Simon Phillips IS one of the best.(reply to this comment
From xolox
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 09:02

(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, I've heard the Bible album many times, unfortunately, and I've been involved in the music world many years, enough to recognize the signs of one overindulging ones pet project. The Bible would have been a great hit!? Huh? Dream on! There is nothing on that album that makes me believe any spectacular drumming took place. The album was mediocre at best. Besides, flutterbug, do you even know who Dennis chambers is?(reply to this comment
From flutterfly
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 15:30

(Agree/Disagree?)

2 Questions Xolox:

What is your job in the music world?

If you're a drum/Dennis Chambers fan why do you not think Simon Phillips is a great drummer?(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 10:02

(Agree/Disagree?)

Who ever said I had a job in the music world? Go back up and read everything again, see if you can't locate the moment you begin to make assumtions.

(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 15:13

(Agree/Disagree?)

You said you were "involved in the music world awhile" so I assumed that your "involvement" ment a little more than just listening to music a lot & being a musicians friend/brother, but, I shouldn't have made the asumption. I just thought that it meant you were a musician, programmer, dj, critic, singer, agent, band manager or whatever, but I guess you aren't so, sorry. No harm intended.

Cheers,

Flutterbug(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 16:26

(Agree/Disagree?)
No harm done at all! I've done many things in the music world, from being in a band to dismantling stages and all the frills that accompany the production side. I am NO LONGER involved in all that. Past tense, see? Simple enough? Cheers right back atcha! ;)(reply to this comment
From flutterfly
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 18:23

(Agree/Disagree?)
Were you also involved with music in TF? And don't missjudge my Q, it's fine if you were. I know a lot of people who were good musicians in TF.(reply to this comment
From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 20:33

(Agree/Disagree?)

No. I wasn't. Why do you ask?(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Friday, July 08, 2005, 04:23

(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh, just wondering. No huge reason.(reply to this comment
From xolox
Friday, July 08, 2005, 12:56

(Agree/Disagree?)
Strange question to be asking for no huge reason... You have to realize it's a loaded issue. What would be the implication in your mind had I said yes?(reply to this comment
From flutterfly
Saturday, July 09, 2005, 05:56

(Agree/Disagree?)

If you would've said yes it would've been no biggy because like I said before I think there are a lot of talented musicians who have been in TF or who are still in. On their own they are talented musically, & yet most people think that Family music sucks. I think you just can't compare F music with secular productions for many reasons. While in I skipped through a fair amount of songs myself. Maybe it would make a nice debate under a new catagory on why people think family music sucks. I think it's wrong to make generalizations & judge someone's musicianship on what their beliefs are. It's like saying Tom Cruise is a bad actor BECAUSE he is a Scientlogist.

Do you think that if your brother was still in TF, all the people on this site would say he was a bad drummer? Maybe. --Right? --Without even giving him a fair chance. I'm new to this site so maybe this is old topic. If so, I apologise. I just hope people know how to judge fairly & not bash a persons talents because of their involvement with a group or whatever. But I don't want to waste people's time if they don't want to talk about it so that's why I just figured it was better to drop the subject. But anyway, you wanted to know.

(reply to this comment

From xolox
Saturday, July 09, 2005, 12:10

(Agree/Disagree?)

Actually, yes. If my brother was still in the family I would be the first to say he probably sucked ass as a drummer. One, because the methods for teaching music in the family are as developed as their methods for teaching any other secular skill. And two, beacause the music they are allowed to listen to is a very pathetic ideal to which they all seem to aspire.

Fortunately, my mother wised up and took him out when he was three and bought him his first kit a few years later, while the Family children in the region were still in desperate need of shoes.

You shouldn't apologize for disscusing a topic of interest to you. If someone has a problem they know where to stuff it. However, I must say this: You happen to be the one who brought the subject of family musicians into the conversation. I was bashing a pathetic album called "The Bible" for one reason, I hate it. I'm very aware that there were a slew of famous and talented people involved in the creation of that mediocre disgrace. It happens all the time, some famous people get together and make a boo-boo. That album got what it deserved, a complete and total flop.(reply to this comment

From Musicians wife
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 18:01

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Well, someone wised up to life. I think when I get reincarnated (??) I will steer clear of the musicians. :). Gotta love 'em but it's so much work, listening to all the music rambling. (Dated 4, married one,)(reply to this comment
From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 20:38

(Agree/Disagree?)
Or, instead of waiting 'till you die, you could get a divorce. ;)(reply to this comment
From LOL
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 15:45

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

His job in the music world? LOL. Lets try "Member of a garage band that never did make it past the garage doors."(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 10:24

(Agree/Disagree?)
My own brother can do better drumming than anything you our annonymous troll friend here have ever heard I'll wager, and no, I'm not in a band. Does that mean I've never been involved, no.

It's good to have little trolls around for the laugh factor though, if it weren't for them (you), dunce caps would never have been invented. Keep it up annonymous little troll, it's all your good for anyway.(reply to this comment

From Annonymous little troll
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 10:57

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Actually there is one other thing I'm good for; the correct spelling is "anonymous" and "..it's all you're good.." is the correct punctuation.

Have a great day ;-)(reply to this comment
From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 16:05

(Agree/Disagree?)

Hey buddy, the city called, I think it was the highway and bridges department, they want their troll back. Run along now.(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 20:32

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I was not asking about his job as an insult or as if to say "Dude if you're not famous, you shouldn't have an opinion because you couldn't do better". It's fine if Xolox is a Dennis chamber fan or an aspiring musician, he may even be very talented. There's also nothing wrong with practicing in your garage. (At least he has one, am I right apartment-dwelling musicians?)

The reason I was asking was just in case he was a music critic whose job it is to write reviews on different albums. Because if you're a critic & not a musician, that's really a different story all together. You're allowed to say whatever you want & you can be biased. In which case he would be exempt from following observation:

IMHO A truly professional & mature musician recognizes talent in all forms even if not belonging to his genre of choice. He doesn't openly voice criticism to & about other musicians. He also doen't make generalisations. Sure, he may not especially like something but he usually keeps his opinions to himself. After all if you're good enough & proud enough of your own achievements, there is no need to boost your ego by putting others down.


(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 10:21

(Agree/Disagree?)

I have no problem with your pet drummer, I never said anything negative about him, he's just not the best in the world. In fact neither is Dennis Chambers. And while I like the city Bozzio calls his kit, I wouldn't consider him the best either. I do like Bozzio better than Chambers.

It's difficult to say who's the best drummer. There's this young drummer for Strapping Young Lad who's just awsome, and the drummer for Dillinger escape plan is not too shabby, and I've always liked Soilwork, especially with the old lineup. But to claim some has been is the best in the world is a little out there.

(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 15:21

(Agree/Disagree?)

He's not my pet drummer. That was Martyn ford who said he was the best. Maybe they are best friends, who knows. --That's why he was so endearing. Kind of like how you think your brother is pretty cool. My bro is also a drummer.

I do not have a favorite anything. I also think that trying to discuss who is the "best" is pointless & so "beauty in in the eye of the beholder"-ish. There's so many good musicians that are maybe even better than the ones that get famous. But that's life.


(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 16:16

(Agree/Disagree?)
I have to agree with that. You're of course right that I support my brother, though I'm not the only one. A great many established bands of his genre have recognized his skills, and it takes more than a triffle to impress some of the best drummers in progressive/grindcore today. I think that if one has better than average skills, and is willing to put in long hours and hard work, the recognition will come. It may take a while, but that's what perseverance is for. I wish your brother the best, it's a tough choice being a drummer.(reply to this comment
From flutterfly
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 15:06

(Agree/Disagree?)

Yeah he's this big african-american dude. Have a drum clinic video with him playing. Yeah of course he's awesome. (reply to this comment

From xolox
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 09:06

(Agree/Disagree?)
P.S. If he's so proud of his work, how is it he has no copy of it? I would imagine he would have saved at least one copy of him conducting the greatest drummer in the world, you know, just to fawn over it. Oh... the precious...(reply to this comment
From Ne Oublie
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 09:44

(Agree/Disagree?)
I think he said he had vinyl and tape versions of it - it was a digital copy he was after.(reply to this comment
From Scary Sushi
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 10:34

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Cause making a digital copy these days is reeal difficult for a guy who must not have any connections in the business.

Big eye roll. Anyone seen MGP lately?(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 15:26

(Agree/Disagree?)

Well, Actually remastering 2 whole CD's worth from reel to CD is not a small pick-nick. They usually redo the levels, eq, etc. Not to mention you have to pay the tech to do the re master. Connections or no, you don't just re-master anything unless they want to resell it or make somekind of huge profit.(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 15:22

(Agree/Disagree?)

Well, Actually remastering 2 whole CD's worth from reel to CD is not a small pick-nick. They usually redo the levels, eq, etc. Not to mention you have to pay the tech to do the re master. Connections or no, you don't just re-master anything unless they want to resell it or make somekind of huge profit.(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 16:37

(Agree/Disagree?)
Um, are you sure? I just talked with a buddy of mine, he's been studying sound engineering for a few years now, and apparently it's not all that difficult. Also, there's what's called "fair use". This applies to copyrighted material used for educational purposes. If someone was interested they could take the Bible album, re-engineer it from scratch at an engineering school (using cutting edge technology), and master it onto a cd for very little trouble at all. The only problem would be redistribution, that's where the law get's tricky.(reply to this comment
From flutterfly
Thursday, July 07, 2005, 17:56

(Agree/Disagree?)

yeah, I agree, it's not so much a matter of whether it can be done or not. My S.O. is a technician/musican & has been studyng mastering recently too. You're right about new technology making it easier & quicker, but I guess the main thing that gets in the way with these things is like you said copyrights & money. For example when you make an album you have to pay everyone, down to the guy who does the final mastering.

But I guess anyone could do it at a school like you say for free. It's just a matter of if they want to. Most people just really want to get payed for their work.(reply to this comment

From roughneck
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 11:02

(Agree/Disagree?)
Might be more of an issue to make a digital copy of an album recorded almost 30 years ago, whose master-tapes are stored godknowswhere in some recording studio or WS unit's vault. It's a sad fact that it's often easier to pirate old musical releases than it is to buy them, being as how most studios generally don't re-release non-hit vinyl records on CD.

I agree that he probably could have gotten a CD copy from somebody he used to know way back when, but odds are it was quicker and easier to ask here. :)(reply to this comment
From cynical...
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 04:15

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Does anyone know for a fact that it is indeed Martyn Ford posting under the name?(reply to this comment
From flutterfly
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 06:24

(Agree/Disagree?)
He put his website link on his profile here on this site. (reply to this comment
From Bill Gates
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 06:59

(Agree/Disagree?)

Yes, and I'm Bill Gates!

http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/default.asp(reply to this comment

From flutterfly
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 07:21

(Agree/Disagree?)
Funny! But why would someone pretend to be someone else for no reason??(reply to this comment
From xolox
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 09:08

(Agree/Disagree?)
To screw with idiots like you!(reply to this comment
From Bill Gates
Wednesday, July 06, 2005, 07:40

(Agree/Disagree?)
Who knows what goes on in those people's heads?(reply to this comment

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