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Getting On : Education
Bad news for California culties...great news for their children | from Albatross - Thursday, March 06, 2008
accessed 993 times Home Schoolers Pwned in California
Finally!
Can I point this part out?: "Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey said." "California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to home-school their children
So Family parents who don't get real teaching credentials CAN be criminally prosecuted. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/06/BAJDVF0F1.DTLCourt limits home-schooling to credentialed teachers
Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, March 6, 2008
Debbie Schwarzer, of Los Altos, has home schooled her two...
(03-06) 14:26 PST LOS ANGELES -- A state appeals court has struck a blow against the home-schooling movement, ruling that California law requires parents to send their children to full-time schools or have them taught by credentialed tutors at home.
The ruling was issued by the Second District Court of Appeal in a dispute between the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services and Phillip and Mary Long of Lynwood, who have been home-schooling their eight children. Mary Long, who has no state credential, acts as their teacher.
The Longs said they have also enrolled their children in Sunland Christian School, a private religious academy, which considers them part of its independent study program and visits the home about four times a year. A juvenile court judge looking into one child's complaint of mistreatment by Phillip Long found that the children were being poorly educated but refused to order two of the children, ages 7 and 9, to be enrolled in a full-time school, saying parents have a right to educate their children at home.
But the appeals court said state law has been clear since at least 1953, when another appellate court rejected a challenge by home-schooling parents to California's compulsory education statutes. Those statutes require children between 6 and 18 to attend a full-time day school, either public or private, or to be instructed by a tutor who holds a state credential for the child's grade level.
"California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to home-school their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said in the 3-0 ruling, issued Feb. 28. "Parents have a legal duty to see to their children's schooling under the provisions of these laws."
Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey said.
The court told the juvenile judge to require the Longs to comply with the law by enrolling their children in a school other than Sunland Christian School, because that institution "was willing to participate in the deprivation of the children's right to a legal education."
The court did not specify how the law should be enforced in other cases. A lawyer for Sunland Christian School said today that 166,000 California children are being educated at home and that the ruling threatens every one of their parents with prosecution.
The decision "not only attacks traditional home-schooling, but also calls into question home-schooling through charter schools and teaching children at home via independent study through public and private schools," said attorney Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, which represented the school.
Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, said the ruling would effectively ban home-schooling in the state.
"California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of home-schooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home," he said in a statement.
But Leslie Heimov, executive director of the Children's Law Center of Los Angeles, which represented the two children in the case, said the ruling did not change the law.
"They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private school, or with an accredited tutor," she said. "If they want to send them to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go to the school and be taught by teachers."
Heimov said her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."
The Longs argued that the state laws violated their freedom of religion. They cited a 1972 U.S. Supreme Court ruling allowing Amish parents in Wisconsin to take their children out of school after the eighth grade and devote their lives to the religious community.
But Croskey said the ruling does not authorize parents who object to the educational system to remove their children, even if their objections are based on religious beliefs. The Amish ruling was based on factors that the current case did not share, he said: deep religious convictions held by an organized group, intimately related to daily living, whose centuries-old existence might be endangered if their children had to attend high school.
By contrast, he said, the Longs simply asserted that they have religious objections to sending their children to school. "Such sparse representations are too easily asserted by any parent who wishes to home-school his or her child," Croskey said.
The ruling can be viewed at links.sfgate.com/ZCQR. |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from clark
Monday, March 10, 2008 - 19:07
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm wondering how this will affect TF in Cal. Maybe another "exidus" out of the babylon state. Surley there aren't credited teachers in TF.
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| from a mother
Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 11:47
(Agree/Disagree?)
I had to teach my son to read and count in the summer holidays as the first two years of school was not cutting the mustard.
Also educating your kids does not not stop at school. There is so much they don't/ can't teach them and a parents impute extremely valuable.
The other extreme to our situation in the cult is parents who leave all the education to the school. this is just as bad for them. A nice balance is key.
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| from rainy
Friday, March 07, 2008 - 14:43
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I have done a lot of reading about homeschooling and I think the benefits for some children can be huge. Of course it depends on the child. I think it should never be done for religious reasons. But if the parents have teaching qualifications, and the children have ADHD, or are particularly gifted or creative, or would otherwise be bullied in school, or just tend to be the kind of kid who falls through the cracks in the school system, I think it should be an option. I think that supervisors should come to the home and look at the curriculum once a month, and the Homeschooling idea in the first place should be approved by the child's health nurse as being appropriate for that particular child. There should be a mandatory amount of socialisation (ie soccer, drama, dance, scouts, etc)and the child should probably go into regular year 10, 11 & 12 to prepare for university. By that age they wouldn't be as vulnerable. As long as conditions are met I believe the option should be available. As there is so much work involved I believe the parents who choose this would be doing it in the interests of their child, and of course in connection with the child's counsellor.
I'd hate to think we look at everything through cult lenses. A family that homeschools isn't doing nothing but JJT and memorising verses you know.
(reply to this comment)
| | | | | | |  From murasaki
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 19:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree with you. Real homeschooling is different from what we had, we were basically put us to work as maids and nannies and everyone called it homeschooling. I don't homeschool my kids, I think it would drive me absolutely nuts. However, I did teach my kids at home before putting them in the school system, my daughter learned to read before starting school and my son will be starting kindy already knowing his numbers and alphabet. Both my kids love to learn (thought my son hates sitting still...lol) and my daughter is doing very well in school. As a parent I can see situations like Rainy mentioned above, where having the option to homeschool would be an important one. (reply to this comment) |
| | From cassy
Sunday, March 09, 2008, 03:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
The UK system may be a bit different, but I work closely with primary and secondary schools, teachers and learning mentors in my job. I support students at risk of exclusion and who are not up to par educationally. What I would say is what parents don't often realise is that you shouldn't leave everything to the school and teachers. I also taught my daughter to read before she went to 1st grade. Most 'good' parents teach/support their children at home and the schools expect this of parents as well - it's a joint effort really and I think that's fair enough. Those children who do badly at school are those whose parents never do anything to support their child's education either because they couldn't care less, or they can't read themselves, or are not aware that they should be doing more to give that individual attention. What school provides for my child, and for most children is (very important) social skills, and certain aspects of the ciriculum that are not so well taught at home, as well as structure. I was and still am amazed how a group of 20 children 5 years old all line up and follow the teacher orderly, and in fact most classrooms are well run (without yelling/spanking). They learn self-discipline outside the home, which I believe is good preparation for adult life. Our children, like us, need to know how to interact with the world because that's where we live and need to survive. My daughter has certainly grown in strength of character, problem solving, and taking responsibility (for example doing her homework by the expected time - she knows the teacher expects it of her), being on time, and in fact now does a lot of her own learning by researching on the internet, reading, etc.) Just the other day she (along with the school) competed in World Math's Day and they go on trips to places like museums that she would never go with me to (because she'd say it's boring), but because the school does it, she has to go and she ends up getting a lot out of it.
What I do agree is that there are some children who just don't/can't fit in and need special care due to medical or other reasons, and cause disruption. In these cases, it may be necessary to provide alternative education. At least here in England there are professional set ups that cater to these children (of whom I work with) with more specialised and individual tutoring. I think homeschooling should be a last resort, and most definitely the parent would need to demonstrate competance and skill. Too often homeschooling is done by parents who want to teach their children their own ideas/religion and predjudices, isolating the child from other points of view and from important interaction with their own peers.(reply to this comment) |
| | From cheeks
Monday, March 10, 2008, 21:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree I don't think home-schooling should ever be done for religious purposes. I am trying very hard to work with the teachers at my kids school. In one of them guidance councilor goes to my bible study group. I called her when my daughter informed me she had been siting next to a kid who had chickenpox for three days and the teacher hadn't called me. More than anything else I want my kids to find what works for them, what makes them enjoy learning. I want my kids to enjoy reading as much as I do and have the math skills of their dad. I want them to know where China is on the map and not think Mexico is a state. I don't want them pregnant until they are financially secure and emotionally ready. And most of all I don't want them to think that wrassling,as is pronounced in my state, is really a sport.
If I do decide to home-school and that is a very big if, I am going to make sure they are socialized, and I don't have to worry about them not enjoying the museums we have already gone so many times they can tell other visitor what to look at. (reply to this comment) |
| | From rainy
Sunday, March 09, 2008, 03:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
Well said! School fills the same role in my son's life, and I'm very happy to have him in school. Like you, I had taught my son a lot of math and science before he started school (He can easily do simple addition and subtraction in his head) He's just starting on reading now in first grade, however, because this subject is harder for him and he's not as interested in it. With reading and writing the teachers have really led the way (to my surprise) and I'm grateful for their expertise.
All your points were very valid. Especially when you have a good school. But if I were faced with a school like Cheeks', I'd certainly be considering moving or taking the education into my own hands.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | from cheeks
Friday, March 07, 2008 - 12:43
(Agree/Disagree?)
This really concerns me as a parent. In the State I live in the schools are very, very poor. We are one of the largest home-schooling states there is. I have considered home-schooling my kids, there is very good material that I can buy that give my children a far better curriculum that is being taught in our current classrooms. My daughter is ten and knows of three twelve years olds that are currently pregnant and go to her school. As a parent it is so hard to make choices that can alter your children's lives forever. Choosing to possibly home-school is one of those. When I send them every day to a class-room that has 22 other students and one teacher and they are gone 8 hours and yet have an hour of homework to me is unacceptable. If we don't want to give parents an opt out we need to upgrade our educational standards. Let us not forget that Eragon was written by a fifteen year-old boy who was home-schooled. I think it can be done well, and it can give the children the education that secular schools do not provide.
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| | | | | | | From cheeks
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 09:30
 (Agree/Disagree?)
It concerns me because I don't think teaching credentials are needed for home-schooling esp if we are talking about grade k-6, I hate to break it to you but many teachers here in the States are not credited. In the two schools my kids go to out of the 20 teachers only nine are credited, and as far as the assistant teachers some of them never graduated from high-school. The homework questions that are sent home are often misspelled and math pages did not make sense to my sister who graduated collage with a degree in accounting and got a 3.8. And maybe you are making enough to hire and accredited tutor but I'm not. So what are my choices exactly. I can continue to send them to school, where their teachers frankly don't give a crap and I can continue to teach their whole year of schooling at night when they get home from school, or I can get some accredited material on-line do the work with them have them tested every quarter, which by the way is the law, and have them at least have a childhood where they are not doing school ten hours a day five days a week.(reply to this comment) |
| | From rainy
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 15:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
I've seen spelling mistakes on the school newsletters and my son's homework as well! It's horrifying! I always make sure to correct it before I send it back. It's just not good enough. I really feel for you Cheeks, that school sounds terrible. And I also don't like the idea of our children's education becoming fulltime drudgery for them. What a way to quash their creativity! There has to be a better way!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From JB
Friday, March 07, 2008, 13:42
(Agree/Disagree?)
I agree that a blanket ban on home-schooling is probably unwise and unfair, to the many people who do a good job of home schooling their kids. And if the state schools are sub-standard in your area and you are able to do a better job then there's no reason that they should force their sub-standard education on you!
I guess it's not always easy to over come the obstacles and beat the "system" at their own game and come out on top, but if you manage it, the rewards can be well worth it!
I think really well-schooled Home-schooled kids in general will do better in the long run than well-schooled State-school kids, and probably will grow into more confident focused and successful adults! I don't have specific stats to back that up (not that there aren't any as well as stats to show just the opposite, as stats can often be made to reflect whatever it is the statistician wants, depending on where he's looking for his stats!), but that is a fairly well-educated and logical guess.
The trick is getting it right and consistancy! I imagine though that the number of parents with all the necessary components (time, materials, organisation, ability, and determination...to name just a few!) to make it successful are probably few and far-between, so there's not likely to be any shortage of state-school pupils ever...so long as civilisation as we currently know it, exists!
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| | From jezz
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 09:49
(Agree/Disagree?)
"And if the state schools are sub-standard in your area and you are able to do a better job then there's no reason that they should force their sub-standard education on you!"
Well duh, I would assume that most everyone who home schools their children THINK that they can do a better job for whatever the reason. Hence the need for a law requiring teaching credentials (which should be just one of many requirments IMO).
The rest of your comment bugs me for some reason. If I could be bothered, I would give you the thumbs down as well.
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| | From jezz
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 09:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
"And if the state schools are sub-standard in your area and you are able to do a better job then there's no reason that they should force their sub-standard education on you!"
Well duh, I would assume that most everyone who home schools their children THINK that they can do a better job for whatever the reason. Hence the need for a law requiring teaching credentials (which should be just one of many requirments IMO).
The rest of your comment bugs me for some reason. If I could be bothered, I would give you the thumbs down as well.
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| | From JB
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 02:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Is there not anyone who thinks that there is any merit at all in what I wrote? Was I given a thumbs down just because of unjustified prejudice? The absence of any logical rebuttal or condemnation of my post leads me to conclude such,
Is there anyone with the courage, decency and fairness to change that to a thumbs up? :)
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| | From DeeJay
Monday, March 10, 2008, 22:02
(Agree/Disagree?)
There is some merit, but I'm not giving a thumbs up because overall, I disagree. I believe in the rule of law. The law is there to prevent what happened to us; little kids being forcefed horseshit by whose only certification was he was certifiably a pervert, pedophile and delusional egomanic. If the school system is not doing a sub-standard job, appeal to child services and try to force them to tow the line.
Also, it's not just unjustified prejudice. After reading some of your posts, I understand too. It's not just that you speak in the language of the "cult", but your every view micmic's theirs as well. There's nothing original. Every word is exactly (and I do mean EXACTLY, as in IDENTICAL TO) what I would expect to come vomiting out of my "teen shepherd's"mouth. Like I said, some people feel they've been forcefed that shit long enough and they're sick and tired of it.
Lastly, you seem to dodge questions or duck out at the last minute when your back's against the wall. You're either vague or turn to a very, I can only say weird, sense of humor.
ie: When I'm weak, then I'm strong.
What?
The question also begs asking, if you're so pro "cult" why did you leave in the first place? Since we're all doomed and Jesus ain't coming to save us, what are you doing here anyway?
Return now to thine own flock. For verily I say unto you, a sheep in wolves clothing frolicking amongst the wolves is likely to get himself torn a new one. Don't worry that thou art lost, for I will leave the ninety and nine....oooops now the ninety and eight....umm scratch that....the eighty....oh fuck it, I lost count. Guess there's no dumb lamb chops for dinner tonight........Uhhh but yes, I will leave them all to find thee, and take thee back into my arms/ass/mouth/mangina.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From JB
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 02:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
Is there not anyone who thinks that there is any merit at all in what I wrote? Was I given a thumbs down just because of unjustified prejudice? The absence of any logical rebuttal or condemnation of my post leads me to conclude such,
Is there anyone with the courage, decency and fairness to change that to a thumbs up.
(reply to this comment) |
| | From Peter
Friday, March 07, 2008, 15:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
This ruling doesn't prohibit parents in California from home schooling their children. All it does is affirm that that they must comply with California's education code which provides that "enrollment and attendance in a public full-time day school is required... for minor children unless (1) the child is enrolled in a private full-time day school and actually attends that private school, (2) the child is tutored by a person holding a valid state
teaching credential for the grade being taught, or (3) one of the other few statutory exemptions to compulsory public school attendance (Ed. Code, § 48220 et seq.) applies to the child."[this is a quote from the page 3 of the ruling at http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/B192878.PDF ]
So if parents want to educate their children to be educated at home all they need to do is make sure that the person teaching the child has a valid state teaching credential for the grade being taught. This simple requirement is nothing new but has actually been the law in California for a long time although it seems it was not being enforced in many cases involving home schoolers. If people don't like this law, the proper remedy is to change it and not just ignore it and become irate when a court affirms the existence and validity of the law in question.
I don't have any problem with a state requirement for children to be educated by those who are qualified to do so. In this case, the "teacher" (Mary Long) reportedly only had an 11th grade education and obviously did not have a valid state teaching credential. She was clearly not qualified and the court was correct to recognize this obvious fact.
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| | From JB
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 02:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
I see what you mean. And I didn't count this as a rebuttal because as I understand it you are more or less just clarifying positions.
I understand a bit more clearly the situations surrounding this ruling, but I still think that to have ability to home school your children does not IMO require a state degree in teaching. I guess it's not always easy to find the balance between state responsibility to ensure educational standards are met, and stiffling red-tape and beaurocracy, and since the state has nothing to lose and everything to gain from interference and beaurocracy and red-tape...that would be the primary course the state would follow, I imagine.
I wish all the genuine home-schoolers well, who are trying to do what they feel is right, in the face of increased censure.
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| | | | | From Jailbird
Friday, March 07, 2008, 20:30
 (Agree/Disagree?)
My sister in law is a teacher. I think it goes as follow:
You need a BA/BS from an accredited University, then you need to enroll in an accredited credential program. It's basically a year and a half program at the end of it you either a M.S/MA in Education along with a "teaching credential," depending on the program if you get it the propery way, it's fairly challenging to get and requires some work.
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| | | | | | | | | | | From Christy
Saturday, March 08, 2008, 11:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
It actually depends on the state and college. All you technically need is a BA or BS in Elementary Education. All states also require that you pass some tests (for most states it's the PRAXIS). For example, I had to complete about two years of general undergrad requirements and two years in my university's college of education. Some universities don't offer education as an undergraduate major, which is why you have to first complete a BS or BA in another field before getting a Masters in Education. States do make an exception to this if someone has a BA/BS and has completed some required education courses. They can then receive a preliminary license, and they have an allotted time to complete the rest of the requirements.
States that have a hard time attracting and retaining qualified teachers, either due to poor pay or other substandard working conditions, tend to bend the rules regarding who they hire. However, there currently are national standards, and teachers are required to be certified in the area they are teaching and to pass certain tests.
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| | | | | | | | from steam
Friday, March 07, 2008 - 07:05
(Agree/Disagree?)
Since for the most part our "homeschooling" was a complete travesty. A name without substance, that would more accurately have been termed "homeslavery". It can be easy to have a natural bias against homeschooling. One that I definetly hold to some extent. The risks are obviously that many parents can be sloppy or worse and children can be at risk especially since they may not interact with society at large enough to reach out for help if they need it. However I believe homeschooling can be done "right". That is, with committed parents who associate with other families as well, pooling resources and giving kids a significantly better grounding academically and socially than they can get it some of the rougher school systems that exist out there. This is especially true in the younger grades and is much harder to do right at the high school level, due to the advanced scholastic level, as well as the need for greater social interaction. A system of testing regularly, while perhaps not perfect would certainly help to ensure the constitutional right to an education, as well leaving families some autonomy which is integral to a free society. There are going to be families out there claiming to be "homeschooling" who are in reality lazy asses, in many cases with some religious motivation, but no willingness to work their asses off to provide for their kids. But the testing should show them up. For the most part it is a decision that requires additional commitment on the part of the parents. Is not taken lightly, and falls within their rights. Most of us wish the state had taken more interest in our upbringing while growing up, and can thus be biased towards the state being on balance a benevolent force. However I believe many DSS workers have an inherent belief in the state as the "parent" and the parent as some kind of temp caregiver who should hold very little decision making authority in the kids lives. This is not to side with the parents in this particular case about which I know nothing. Only to express grave reservations about such a sweeping court judgment which smacks of big brother in which the state is the all important caregiver.
(reply to this comment)
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