Moving On | Choose your lifeMoving On | Choose your life
Safe Passage Foundation - Support to youth raised in high demand organizations


Saturday, January 31, 2009    

Home | New Content | Statistics | Games | FAQs

Getting On : Education

CVC High School Diploma

from itsxena2u - Thursday, April 15, 2004
accessed 2520 times

I have heard a lot of negative comments about TF's CVC High School Diploma. (I don't have much faith in it myself but am willing to give it a shot) I know it hasn't worked for some. But has anyone had any luck getting into College using CVC High School Transcripts? I'm taking some remedial courses online right now, but I will need to turn it in before I start nursing school in the fall. I just want to see if it's even worth turning it in to my college or should I go through the hassle of getting a GED? Any comments/suggestions would greatly help. Thanks!


P.S. If you've had any luck getting into college using the CVC transcripts, please feel free to comment anonymously if you are afraid of being ridiculed on this site for having done so. Again, thank you very much.

I like to personally thank Nancy, Exister, Sharon, .edu and everyone else who has added their comments to this article. It has sure shed some light on my situation.

Reader's comments on this article

Add a new comment on this article

from Vixin
Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 17:46

(Agree/Disagree?)

I have gotten into three universities without more than an in-state ID. No one ever checked up on my prior classes...just had to take an entrance exam.

Just a thought however, why not take the GED? At least you know that will get you into college. Believe me, the test is easy.
(reply to this comment)

from Phoenixkidd
Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 14:20

(Agree/Disagree?)
Got my GED at the old age of 22. After I left the cult I worked in Japan for 3 months and prepared with a book given to me by my dear Mom who bought it at an English Bookstore. I registered at a GED testing center and took the test within one week of coming to the States. It was relatively easy and I ranked in the top 10% on everything except Math. Then I went to community college, it was tough to get in because I needed extra funds which I had to get signed forms with tax information with my parents signature on etc...They wouldn't sign it...So I signed it for them at the discreet suggestion from a counselor. Then I had to take a general aptitude test...and they said I would have to take a class for reading since I ranked low in comprehension??? So I re-took the test, my test skills kept getting better, and I was in. I got the Dean's award that first year at community college because all the 101 classes I took were so easy. But then I went to state university and that was rough, let me tell you, I didn't really know what I wanted to major in and flunked most of math.. I later quit and finally spent my major core at University of Phoenix, with a boat load of cash. I believe all that is due to me having poor math skills, I tell you that's one thing, unless your gifted in it, that you have to start from the ground up meaning elementry, junior high etc.. My business degree in State University would have required me to pass calculus class, which I so did not get!! All in all, I hope it pays off one day, it's certainly whipped me into shape mentally after being dull and generally not learning a single thing for all those years in the cult.
(reply to this comment)
from Wolf
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 03:19

(Agree/Disagree?)
I got into two colleges without showing any high school diploma (even though I did have a GED). But they weren't very hight class colleges.
(reply to this comment)
From skurtu1
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 07:58

(Agree/Disagree?)

A GED is a diploma, it's a General Equivalency Diploma. The Department of Education devised this type of diploma back in the 1950's so miscreant youth in prison could achieve a high school diploma having not attended high school. After that this testing for diploma program was utilized in the general public due to its success. Any community or junior college, trade school, etc, but not 4 year universities, will take a GED. Most community colleges will give you whats called an Asset exam. This is an assessment exam that pinpoints your weak areas to determine the need for developmental courses before tackling the more difficult college level courses. I have friend that went to Community College for 3 years and established a very impressive GPA and this fall was accepted into the Pre-Med program @ UNC Chapel Hill. They also awarded him $17,000 in grants & scholarships to pay for his tuition, books, off campus housing, etc. That money is more than enough. Don't ever tell yourself that a GED is less than a high school diploma. In my opinion, i think it's worth more in that it shows a person is determined to get what he didn't before and that his education means something to him. Most kids graduating from high school today don't give a flip about school or their futures. They just follow what mommy & daddy have been telling them.

Good luck to anyone going. (reply to this comment

From Wolf
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 14:57

(Agree/Disagree?)
I think you might have misunderstood me -- I had a GED, but I never had to show it to anyone!(reply to this comment
From GED
Thursday, August 17, 2006, 08:48

(
Agree/Disagree?)

I don't recall ever showing my GED to anyone either, but to get into to college or university, I'm sure you would have at least checked a box somewhere on your application that said something to the effect of "high school diploma or GED." Anyways, I do think it is a necessary thing to have to get into college. Maybe some lucky people get around it (or use their CVC), but that would be a fluke.



(reply to this comment

From Big Sister
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 23:29

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I know a lot of high school students and from my perspective most people graduating from high school today care a lot about their futures. Some of them go on to attend the local community college because in California that's a way to transfer into major universities in your junior year. Others go directly to 4 year schools. But it's competitive and everybody works hard - the incoming freshman class at UC Berkeley has an average GPA of 4.3! With grades like that you have to admit there are quite a few high school students who care about their education.(reply to this comment
From skurtu1
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 08:46

(Agree/Disagree?)

Big Sister, you may have wanted to read the entire thread. This thread is about folks who have the CVC high school diploma fromt he family. Noone can have a 4.3 GPA from a college. Most colleges work on a 4 point GPA system. I wasn't trying to say that most high schoolers don't care about their education. I was trying to encourage those who didn't have the opportunity to attend a public/private high school but was educated in TF. Try reading the entire thread & not just the current post. (reply to this comment

From Big Sister
Wednesday, August 16, 2006, 10:39

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I was responding to your thoughts about "most high school students today" since I have a different perspective that might be useful to people attending college with those very
HS students you describe. I would hope that anyone entering college not start with the rather discouraging idea that most of their fellow students are spoiled by their advanages or don't care about their education. Happily, they will find this is not true. I'm glad you agree.

Of course, you are also describing an important point that if you start college older than a typical 18 year old, you will naturally have a more mature attitude. And if you grew up in TF and start college you are coming from a different culture as well. This was the experiece of my TF relatives who attended college. Like you, they all managed to do extremely well, and make good friends in school as well. Kudos to all.

I wouldn't mention a 4.3 GPA if I didn't mean it. But I need to be more clear-UC Berkeley incoming freshmen applied to college with an average 4.3 GPA (from high school). You get a 4.3 GPA by taking Advanced Placement classes in high school. An A in an AP class is worth more than 4.0 (I think it's worth 5.0) and that's how many ambitious, hard working HS students get those super high grades. I think former TFers will find they have more in common with those folks!(reply to this comment
From GED
Tuesday, August 15, 2006, 12:33

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Actually most 4 year colleges will accept a GED, but you will also have to take the ACT or the SAT. I got into a four year college without going to junior college first. The admissions office told me that they put a lot more scrutiny on the SAT scores of people without high school diplomas, and often require that the applicants take some of the SAT II tests since they don't have any grades to show. In my case, the ACT, GED, and an application statement staying that said I was "homeschooled" got me in.

(reply to this comment

from skurtu1
Monday, August 14, 2006 - 17:13

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Well, seeing that so many folks are heading to college this fall I thought I'd share a bit about my college experience. This post is old, so thought I'd reactivate it again. After leaving the family in '91 I had not completed high school, but fortunately I had some high school transcripts that got me into an adult high school program. After completion I was awarded my diploma. I was immediately accepted into college. The only thing I can honestly say about my time in the family is that I became knowledgeable about other cultures. Also the constant barrage of memorization of scripture & quotes taught me the skills to memorize large quantities of information in the Clinical Laboratory Science degree program I enrolled in. As a student in North Carolina I was awarded the prestigous Academic Excellence Award that is given annually to 116 students out of 800,000 enrolled college students. I achieved a 4.0 for 8 semesters straight and was also awarded multiple scholarships for my academic prowess. Before going to college I believed that I was stupid and couldn't do anything, my parents & the family reinforced this belief. It has taken years to overcome that false belief. If I can succeed in college anyone can.

As far as the family's diploma, unless they are a registered program with the Department of Education or an accrediting agency that has verified their legitimacy & curriculum or your parents can submit transcripts from their home school that they have signed & had notarized most colleges will not accept their transcripts without you taking an entrance exam, SAT test, or the GED. That's my experience with dozens of friends that have homeschooled their high schoolers. It also depends on the state. Look @ the states home school laws to see how stringent they are. A transcript isn't any good without test scores to back it up, such as, the SAT, ACT, etc. It sounds like the family diploma is just another con game to make themselves look legit, but, unfortunately, that game won't work when getting into US or European colleges. It never ceases to amaze me & the con games they dream up. When will the bull shit end!!!!
(reply to this comment)

From skurtu1
Monday, August 14, 2006, 19:46

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

a quick footnote, a GED is probably your best bet for getting your high school diploma fast. A GED will open the door for you to attend a community college where you will have to take a placement test that will find out what areas you are weak in. This assessment will place you in developmental courses that will prepare you for college level courses such as math, reading, & composition. Much of the general studies students are required to take in the 1st 2 years of college are a more in depth study of what they were supposed to have learned in high school. So don't be intimidated by attending college with a GED. Most of the students @ community colleges are there because they couldn't get into a 4-year school or they dropped out of middle or high school. Community colleges also provide you more one-on-one attention as well as immediate job training if you don't plan on going to a university. I recently read an essay about a Hispanic woman in Brownsville, TX that didn't speak English & hadn't attended school since she was 12, & @ that time she was only in 2nd grade. Because she didn't speak English & the states didn't accomodate her language barrier she was lost in the cracks. She found a very sympathetic registrar @ a community college that allowed her to enroll, learn english and then earn a degree. She was far from unintelligent. She achieved an associate degree in 3 years & then went on to get her BA, MA, & PHD. Don't be afraid to tell the counselors at the college your background. They are more than willing to help you.

Hope this is a help(reply to this comment

from Christy
Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 12:25

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Getting your GED is really not at all a hassle. You can check books out from your local library to help you prepare for the test. I took it in Texas years ago, and I basically just signed up and took the test a week later. They have places where you can take a graded practice test to help you see in which areas you need more preparation. As others have already said, the GED doesn't hold much water when it comes to getting into a good school. It sounds like you're planning on going to a community college though, so it should be sufficient for your purposes. You'll still need to take the entrance exams and that's where you'll find out which remedial courses you'll have to take. I was lucky in that I started preparing to pass the entrance exam several months in advance. I only ended up having to take one non-credit course (intermediate algebra).

Once you establish a good gpa at a community college, you can usually transfer to a much better school, which is what I did. From what I understand however, you can complete your RN degree at a two year college. This is what my mom did. It's only if you want to get a BS in nursing that you would have to transfer to a four-year college. Even if the online courses you are taking don't end up applying to your degree, hopefully they'll at least help you get into better shape academically.
(reply to this comment)

from Christy
Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 12:22

(Agree/Disagree?)

Getting your GED is really not at all a hassle. You can check books out from your local library to help you prepare for the test. I took it in Texas years ago, and I basically just signed up and took the test a week later. They have places where you can take a graded practice test to help you see in which areas you need more preparation. As others have already said, the GED doesn't hold much water when it comes to getting into a good school. It sounds like you're planning on going to a community college though, so it should be sufficient for your purposes. You'll still need to take the entrance exams and that's where you'll find out which remedial courses you'll have to take. I was lucky in that I started preparing to pass the entrance exam several months in advance. I only ended up having to take one non-credit course (intermediate algebra).

Once you establish a good gpa at a community college, you can usually transfer to a much better school, which is what I did. From what I understand however, you can complete your RN degree at a two year college. This is what my mom did. It's only if you want to get a BS in nursing that you would have to transfer to a four-year college. Even if the online courses you are taking don't end up applying to your degree, hopefully they'll at least help you get into better shape academically.
(reply to this comment)

from
Friday, April 16, 2004 - 13:54

(Agree/Disagree?)
Maths, it carries more weight or entrance level points.
(reply to this comment)
from Speedy Gonsalez??
Friday, April 16, 2004 - 10:00

(Agree/Disagree?)
WTF? I'd just like to know how you got in to the Nursing school with only a few little online remedial courses?? I got my GED first which was a good move and I actually scored very high on it except for math. I had to take remedial algebra (6 credits) and since I had no transcripts for biology and science in high school, I had to take courses for those as well. This semester I am finally finishing two years of pre-requisites and will be eligible for the RN program here. It's been worth it to me as I didn't want to just get by but actually learn something but still; what are you doing that it should move so fast there? Is it that possibly you are doing everything at once, as in all the pre req's and all the remedials at the same time?
(reply to this comment)
From itsxena2u
Friday, April 16, 2004, 13:14

(Agree/Disagree?)
No dear, the remedial classes I am taking online are to help me in the areas I didn't score very high in when taking the TASP (Texas Assessment Skills Program). The prerequisites for Nursing school would have to be taken at the college campus. At the moment I'm only going for the LVN because I need to start making money right away. You, on the other hand are going for the full Bachelors degree in Nursing which I think is fab! I looked into that here and it is very similar to what you're studying. It's about 1 1/2 years of prerequisites and 2 yrs of Nursing school. If I didn't have kids and wasn't so pressed for money, that is the route I would take. Good for you!(reply to this comment
From exister
Friday, April 16, 2004, 10:49

(Agree/Disagree?)

"I actually scored very high on it"

To clarify, this is irrelevant!(reply to this comment

from banal_commentator
Friday, April 16, 2004 - 09:26

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Take the GED. Don't even waste your time with that CVS bullshit
(reply to this comment)
from .edu
Friday, April 16, 2004 - 08:30

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Hey there Xena.

I never got a CVC since I left before they came up with that one (I'm 31) so I can't speak to that at all. When I left at the age most people graduate high school, I'd had maybe a total of 3 hours of "scholastics" in the preceding 6 years (but I did get 2 months of TTC bootcamp training to be an endtime soldier, and countless hours of unpaid dishwashing --uhh, I mean "hospitality sciences." PTL!!).

I got a GED and then I went on to college, graduating cum laude (I had the grades for more but chose not to do the theses as I had too many other things to do and interests to pursue and I had to choose between good things). I won some important academic prizes, on the basis of all of which I went on to a top Grad School then to an Ivy-League professional school and a great job. Of course it helped in getting in to the graduate & professional programs that I scored very high on the standardized test for those (including the GRE, etc.).

What worked for me with the GED is that I could write somewhat OK for the GED's requirements, and I got suggestions for improving it from relatives who had taught GED classes. I got somebody else to tutor me in math. GED math is mostly not advanced, and if you can get enough of the basic questions right, you can afford to get wrong some that are too advanced. I did the worst on social studies-type questions since I'd never had exposure to them.

BTW, the GED is split up into a small handful of subjects that you can totally prepare for.

The point of the GED is to help those who like exister said dropped out for some reason, to not totally flounder and become drags on society. They don't make it hard to pass. of course, it doesn't have great value either since it's not designed for people who plan to go on to bright futures that demand an education and have spent their time accordingly. But like exister said, if you can get more education afterward, it becomes irrelevant eventually that you only have a GED.

What worked for me is I got the GED then I got permision from a private college (which had some flexibility) to take some basic college courses which actually would have been remedial for people who went to high school and studied hard and did well. It was a kind of "provisional" thing, I was not really fully "admitted."

Well I started by biting off very little and chewing it thoroughly, getting good grades. Then I bit off a little more, chewed it just as thoroughly, and got good grades. I eventually went to a full load and kept getting good grades until I graduated with such a quality college record that it eclipsed my disadvantage from no grade or high school.

I will point out that all I did for a long time was study and take a little minimum-wage job (getting $4,25 made me feel so rich after years of being paid $0.00 -- and here I was getting paid for stuff that was not a fraction as bad as my forced labor in TF). So I didn't have much of a full life, but then again I wouldn't really have known how to since the change from TF in the early 90's (super intense days there) in the 3d world was quite a culture shock. In fact keeping busy probably helped me not to feel so bad that I had zero social skills or social life while I eased in.

I also honestly think that one thing that it has made it easier for me to deal with the issue of a wierd and crappy past in college, grad schools and even situations when it comes up these days, is my particular attitude to my TF upbriging. Having run away young in an era when it was very hard to do so (and a rare occurence for SGs to leave) and then having spoken out about what I lived and saw there, I never felt that I had anything to be ashamed of and I told it like it was when I applied places. To clarify, I certainly have memories of abuse that arouse shameful and painful feelings in me, but I know that as a minor at the time those things happened, those who deserved the shame were the adults using their positions of authority and my utterly vulnerable position to abuse me (therapy helped a ton with this).

So I was able to take the disadvantage, once I had worked and gotten a start, and turn it in my favor in many ways, because when "civilians" know the facts they actually find it impressive to start from where I did and get where I am. Somebody who has overcome those obstacles to get to where high achievers in the world get has to have some special qualities.


(reply to this comment)

From Nancy
Friday, April 16, 2004, 10:42

(Agree/Disagree?)
"special qualities" would be putting it mildly. Darling, you are exceptional in every sense of the word.(reply to this comment
from exister
Friday, April 16, 2004 - 07:19

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I wouldn't pay tuition to any college that would accept any of the faux educational documents forged by those backward savages.

I am the only person I know who took the GED and graduated Magna Cum Laude from college, though I am sure there are others on this site. The GED was intended for ignorant people who decided to join a gang and drop out of school, not for those who were denied an education against their will. All that to say that the GED is an easy test, and you should take it ASAP. It's pretty much pass/fail, so no one will be scrutinizing your score. Once you get some good college grades under your belt the question of GED vs. High School is irrelevant and never comes up.

Incidentally, as an external observer of America's High Schools I don't think they're worth crap either. I teach college freshmen now, and the profound lack of abstract thinking skills is disturbing. The more I get to know the products of High School the more I realize I didn't miss out on much more than painful wedgies and awkward, sticky, sexual escapades.
(reply to this comment)

From Nancy
Friday, April 16, 2004, 10:54

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
There are also high school completion programs out there, some held at high schools at night or local community colleges. I enrolled in one of these programs at a very good community college, fifth in the country or so they say, and took every high school completion class they offered. I took four English classes, three math classes, biology, physical science, history, a class called "politics, economics and government" and two additional community college courses, geometry and college algebra, which I took to help prepare for the SAT. When I finished, I received my high school diploma through the local school district. I received grades in each of the classes which created a high school transcript and helped me get into college. I wouldn't have done it differently because the four English classes and the math classes were invaluable in helping me catch up in what I had missed while imprisoned by the Family. I don't know how I would have done well in college without those basics. Unfortunately, the high school completion program didnít offer spelling. I think that was taught in primary and middle school.(reply to this comment
From Jerseygirl
Friday, April 16, 2004, 10:01

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Teaching freshmen in college? Damn! You're starting to seem interesting.(reply to this comment
from highonhigh
Friday, April 16, 2004 - 05:17

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I know it dosn't work in any latin country, because it does not have an acreditation from any governament. Any school transcript or diploma must have the backing of the ministry of education or the education department of the country that issue the paper. In the case of the CVC who is backing it up?

(reply to this comment)
From Sharon
Friday, April 16, 2004, 09:32

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I left with my CVC diploma and tried to enter as a junior in high school with that as my transcripts. They laughed at me. It is not accredited at all which makes it useless. I would be leary of any college or highschool that accepts it because that means that they don't look into things and have no standard to go by. If the family wants to use that as a claim to a valid form of education, they need to take the time to get it accredited somewhere in the world. I also tried to use it for a community college and they too laughed at me. I ended up taking the GED test (even though that is not considered a very good education here at all) and am now doing very well in college.

ON (reply to this comment

From Nancy
Friday, April 16, 2004, 09:42

(Agree/Disagree?)
I think I got it. You left with your CVC diploma. Is that right? =)(reply to this comment
From Sharon
Friday, April 16, 2004, 09:41

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know what happened there, I apologise. Like I was saying, many family people look at the GED as a boast to having a decent education. My sister has said to me, "well, I not only have my CVC diploma, I also have my GED" as if that was some form of validation for a good education. The truth is, people look down on GED's. The majority of people that take them are highschool dropouts and losers who couldn't stick with the program. Granted, there are many exceptions such as military kids and us, but in general, to have a GED is not considered to be very good. There are plenty of homeschooling programs that are accredited and carry a little more prestige than the GED, and certainly more than the CVC program. It's not that difficult to enroll in those programs, it just requires a little effort from the parents and children. I guess that's too hard of a concept for many people. I'm done venting. (reply to this comment
From exister
Friday, April 16, 2004, 07:10

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Presumably the hand of Almighty God, who is dead.(reply to this comment
From dillwd
Saturday, April 17, 2004, 01:17

(Agree/Disagree?)
yeah the GED is a joke but hey get it anyways (reply to this comment

My Stuff


log in here
to post or update your articles

Community

43 user/s currently online

Web Site User Directory
5047 registered users

log out of chatroom

Happy Birthday to demerit   Benz   tammysoprano  

Weekly Poll

What should the weekly poll be changed to?

 The every so often poll.

 The semi-anual poll.

 Whenever the editor gets to it poll.

 The poll you never heard about because you have never looked at previous polls which really means the polls that never got posted.

 The out dated poll.

 The who really gives a crap poll.

View Poll Results

Poll Submitted by cheeks,
September 16, 2008

See Previous Polls

Online Stores


I think, therefore I left


Check out the Official
Moving On Merchandise
. Send in your product ideas


Free Poster: 100 Reasons Why It's Great to be a Systemite

copyright © 2001 - 2009 MovingOn.org

[terms of use] [privacy policy] [disclaimer] [The Family / Children of God] [contact: admin@movingon.org] [free speech on the Internet blue ribbon] [About the Trailer Park] [Who Links Here]