from roughneck - Tuesday, July 26, 2005
accessed 1215 times
Loudly, repeatedly and ill-manneredly you've demanded answers to your "question(s)", (which you refuse to summarise) handily denoted by curvy punctuation. Luckily for me, my browser has a "Find in Page" feature, so I was easily able to extract all sentences in the Tom Cruise comes undone thread which you have chosen to end with a "?". I can't promise I'll be entirely gracious, but I can guarantee I won't "evade" your interrogatories.
"Although, I thought a person was a thetan, so how could their body be consumed by many thetans as you say?"
If all feens are bings, and some bings are bonns, are all feens bonns? Who the fuck cares? You DO realise that L.R. "Old Mother" Hubbard was a writer of FICTION, right? At least R.A. Heinlein had the decency to distance himself from the Church of All-Worlds, rather than try to become the new Jesus Christ Rockefeller, fer fucksake.
Personally, I could give a shit whether it's "Thetans", "The Borg", "Cylons" or "The Sixty-Second Galactic Hegemony". Really, if you can't tell that Scientology is selling you shit as shine-ola, (cheap at only 50 times the price!) from your money you deserve to be parted, fool.
"If a legal crime is committed then they have the person charged in court and the e-meter is not used as evidence. If it is just an internal rule broken then they take whatever course of action is necessary, which includes excommunication. I don't see what's wrong with this. What is wrong with this?"
Hey, that's just fine in my book. Shamanism for internal "civil" matters, courts for the criminal stuff. -If it's OK by you that some high mucky-muck squinting over what looks suspiciously like a VU meter attached to tin cans decides whether or not you've committed a "high crime", that is.
For the record, one of the many things that TFI doesn't do (which is oft complained about on this very site) is get the Justice system involved in criminal complaints, if you're wondering where the hostility comes from. Your allegation that CoS involves the courts in criminal matters still doesn't negate the FACT that your "religion" is in reality a "cult", although to be fair it is a mark in Scientology's favour. OK, I see you're hung up on the word "cult" too. I don't care, really, as I'm a rather strident atheist, who is of the opinion that all religions (i.e., successful cults) have pretty much equal worth, (none to speak of). So please spare me the "you believe in a work of fiction too" speech. Pretty please.
"Oh, and soup cans? You really think they grab a bunch of Campell's off the shelves, empty them, take the labels off and hook them up to the e-meter?"
Oh, nooooo, these are "special" tin cans! --Would you like some snake oil and patent medicine to go with your quackery today?
Seeing as how you, Tweedledumb, and your pet sidekick, Nicole Slaugh, Tweedledumber, are so fond of mocking the fact that most of us on this site grew up "barefoot and uneducated", you should know that it's "Campbell's", not "Campell's". Yeah, the grammar Nazi says hi too.
"Outside of the law?"
I don't know enough to comment on any specific instances of this in the CoS, honestly. However, TFI operates outside of the law almost completely, except for some front organizations set up to receive tax benefits. Whether or not this is the case with the CoS, I don't know. But given that the allegations of abuse and the respective denials of each organization in question are nearly identical, it does lead one to strongly suspect that the cases behind such allegations bear more than passing similarity as well. In TFI & movingon.org's instance, most if not all allegations are in fact real cases of abuse, so you can see why members of this site don't take your half-baked denials at face value. But hey, perhaps Scientology is the One True Religion after all, and isn't just about mind control of the masses and financial enrichment of the leaders, but somehow I really fucking doubt it. Blame my cynicism (or retardation if you prefer). As the saying goes, Fool me twice, shame on me.
"So because you were criminally abused by people who were never convicted on it every other alleged abuser is guilty?"
I think you're missing the point, which is of course that "not convicted" isn't synonymous with "not guilty". Many if not most of us were trained to use that exact same line when we were growing up in TFI ("...were never convicted...") when questioned as to whether abuse ever happened, you know. I'm not saying that absolutely every allegation against your church is rooted in unshakable fact (though in our accusations against TFI, they are), just that your defense is pathetically weak if all it amounts to is the same BS we used to spout.
"In the name of the dumbass, can you please stop crying because I'm calling you on your imbecilic comments?"
Who's crying? I see a bunch of people ridiculing your religion, wisecracking and giving you thumbs down ratings, but no crying from anyone as far as I can tell. Speaking of imbecilic, who's the one spending their money to work their way up in a cult? (Hint: not me!) Meditate on this and adjust your viewpoint accordingly.
"And what do you believe?"
No God, No Heaven, No Hell, No Afterlife, and most importantly, No Evil Alien Overlords. That pretty much sums it up for me.
"And you say Tom is a weirdo?"
Yup. Lots of those types in Hollywood. Add to that list Mel "Two-and-a-half-hours of BDSM" Gibson too, please.
"And the state of Clear is dubious? How so?"
No, the value of the state of "Clear" is dubious.
"Bait and switch?"
Let's see: start with some light self-help and end up a significantly poorer Fox Mulder type. Yeah! That's the same thing alright! Here's my question: If the CoS is so "up front", why do you have to pay to know what it's actually all about?
"And reasoning faculties?"
Haven't found any to speak of in other alien-watching types. Shame you're not the exception.
"As far as being "preoccupied" with pulling in new members, what religion doesn't want new members? Ever heard the word "crusade"?"
I think I've already summed up my views vis-a-vis Religion and Cults. They're the same damned thing! Also, the historical crusades weren't as much about conversion as much as they were about conquest. If you're speaking of "crusade" in the Billy Graham way, well shit, looks like you're right. All cults want new members. In TFI most new members arrive via the birth canal, that's the basic difference between our cults. -In the membership respect at least.
"Did you know it's also recognized in Australia where it once was considered a cult?"
Like I said in a previous comment, this proves what? That lobbying and bribery works? News flash!
"And even if they were, so? You gonna use 10 people as specimen for an entire group, in an event that happened 20 years ago?"
Well gee, if those 10 people happened to be in charge, it's not nearly as unfair as you paint it to be.
Some people may disagree with me on this, but there are some decent people in TFI as well. Unfortunately, the preponderance of scummy, abusive people in TFI leadership overshadows any good the few honest peons may do. I suspect CoS is set up much the same way.
"You really think fascist/communist influences from the inventors of such things are long gone?"
I have to ask: Red State or Blue State? I'm glad to see you didn't Godwin yourself on that last one, though the Fascism reference came pretty close.
"Shit, how'd that happen?"
Ah, the refrain of the ex-cult-member worldwide. The trick usually is to get the new recruit roped in by something that sounds beneficial, noble, or worthy, and after a commitment is made, switching up to the mind control and abuse. If you aren't there yet, I'm sure you're only a couple grand away. Make sure you save your pennies!
"You recognize bullshit?"
Yes indeed. My BS detector is industrial grade after being fed creationism, sex with Jesus, religious prostitution and abuse of children as Holy Writ for the first 20 years of my life. You, androgynous chessperson, positively reek of cattleyards.
Yes, kindly do. If you don't have anything besides preaching, derision & trolling to add to this site's content, that is.
"You hope I grow out of this being an apologist or whatever? Well, I'm flattered; you care about my well-being. Or do you?"
Personally, I could care less what you do, as long as it isn't here. No, I don't actually care about your well-being, so save your masturbatory self-flattery. Let's face it, you're a cult member, who joined willingly, knowing better, no less! My sympathy and concern for you can be measured on the fingers of one knee.
"Oh, so this is about the ex-Family members sharing their experiences, trying to perhaps comfort one another, like a support group?"
Ding-ding-ding-ding! Laaaaydies and Gentlemen, we have a winner! You go to the head of the class! What did you think it was? A site full of receptive sheeple just dying to be enlightened on the virtues of L. Ron Hubbard's unimaginative fiction? Get real.
"How did I come to this site you ask?"
I'm more interested in when you're planning on leaving, actually.
"By the way, what the hell do you need to know about me as far as my background is concerned? All you need to know is I just provided more facts in one post than all the other pinheads in their posts combined. Don't believe they are facts? Perhaps you should explore more credible sources than Xenu.net, a website made by people kicked out for violating seroius rules, otherwise known as committing high crimes."
Well gee, real ex-cult movingoners already share much of the same background. But as you've admitted that you didn't grow up in a cult (against your will, no less), background IS important, Einstein. What's really funny about you is that you claim to provide "facts", but I haven't seen one yet. Oh, except for maybe your breathy declamation of the meaning of the word "thetan", but even then, you didn't back up your facts with anything more believable than your stilted prose. Your bleating is much reminiscent of the whining noises that current Family members make over people hearing our stories on this site, as opposed to taking at face value the drivel found on their promotional site. Thought you'd like to know.
"Don't know what those crimes are?"
Nope! Don't really care either, as I never plan on being a Scientologist.
"What if I called you a traitor and abandoner?"
Oooo, ouch! That cuts me to the quick! Aaagh! Actually, I'd laugh, and agree heartily. Got any more "hurtful" terms you'd like fling around?
(re: Ne Oublie and idiots) "Am I saying you're one of them?"
It's a question I've asked myself, actually. (Just Kidding, NeO.. ;)
"Civlized exchanges? How is a poem used for mockery "civilized"? I won't even go into the gay thing, but is that also "civilized"?"
Oh dear fucking GOD, how could we mock your sacrosanct religion like that?? Come on, it wasn't even that offensive. For you to get your panties in a twist about something insignificant like the fact that "e-meters" don't use real jumper cables (and perhaps not supermarket grade tin cans either) suggests that the silly little ditty hits a little close to home. Are you angry that your entire belief system fits into a 8 line song or what? Also, I could give a fuck whether Tom Cruise is gay or not. Makes no goddamn difference to me.
"Where did the Sea Org come in?"
I think the more pressing question is how long have you been a member?
"How is this helping you as far as your experiences with the Family go?"
Haven't you heard? Laughter's a great medicine! We here at movingon.org occasionally like to point the finger and have a good guffaw at the fact that TFI aren't the only freaks out there. You'll find similar disparaging remarks about the JWs, the LDS (Mormons), Catholics, Baptists, Republicans et fucking cetera. Get over it already.
"Besides, what facts that I've given would you dispute here?"
Let's start with enumerating the "facts" you've presented. Oh wait, you didn't provide any! Let's try the discussion again after you've pointed out some "facts" and see where that takes us.
"Did you not know that Tom's mom is also a Catholic and a Scientologist at the same time?"
So she's obviously at one of the lower grades where Catholicism and Scientology can still co-exist. Big fucking whoop. I am honestly curious, though, about how Catholic notions of God, Jesus and the Devil can co-exist with Xenu, hydrogen bombs and galactic empires.
"Also, when did Nicole complain about Tom?"
Beats me! I do know they broke up, so it couldn't have been all roses. Don't take this to mean that I actually give a fuck or anything.
And so ends my comment to Pawn
who peddles Scientology's con
for when Pawn says L. Ron
I just hear Enron
and grip my wallet tight 'fore it's gone