Getting Out : Inside Out
Web Rage: Maria's Frustration With Us and this Web Site
from Jules - Friday, March 05, 2004
accessed 4532 times
"The smaller the mind, the greater the conceit"
It’s been a rough past few years for Maria (Karen Zerby) and the leaders of The Family. The life of a cult leader is just not what it used to be. Berg effortlessly ruled with an iron fist and The Family was a Real Cult back then, with unquestioning obedience from the terrified and awestruck members. Back in the day Family members got on with their primary task of fundraising and signing over their inheritances, there was none of this “non-profit” or “Consider The Poor” nonsense. No one complained about their Charter “rights” being violated when Berg was in charge. It was “God Hates Murmuring”, “We Are an Army”, “Get the Victory or Get Out”.
While Maria found it very easy to play good cop to Berg’s bad cop, transferring her “sweet” persona to someone that people will actually follow is proving to be a bit of a stretch. The “Loving Jesus” fiasco is a textbook example of cult leadership being more than the sum of its parts. This doctrine had all the elements of the things that had worked so well for Berg: sexuality, creative interpretation of obscure scriptures, a touch of the occult and controversy. Who knew that a group that had eagerly participated in prostitution and paedophilia would balk at the notion of imagining themselves with female genitalia and as sex partners for Jesus? Maria’s attempt to prove herself Berg’s equal backfired on her quite badly.
The Family’s young people in particular seem to be a constant source of frustration for Maria. In the good old days a nice silence restriction or public beating kept those smart-ass kids in line. Unfortunately those disciplinary measures landed them in quite a bit of trouble and so had to be discontinued. These days it’s simply impossible to control them all. Some of the “kids” are in their late twenties and early thirties and are very tired of the constant patronization. Even worse, there is now a whole generation who don’t even have the “Fear of the Lord” guilt triggers that teen training and victor program brutality gave their first few batches. As one of the Final Warnings before the current “restructuring” of the Family, Maria wrote a publication she titled: “So You Want to Be a Disciple? For God's Sake Be the Best!”. While other documents were written to our parents, this one was to the few of our friends and siblings who still remain in the group. Her exasperation and disdain for our generation in general is strikingly apparent.
What seems to be even more annoying for Maria than the second generation still in are we who have left. When no one has contradicted or criticized you for 30 years, it is infuriating to know that there are people who don’t give a damn what you think, know exactly where you have screwed up, and are more than happy to say so publicly. Maria and Peter seem to follow this web site quite closely and their anger at such insolence is quite clearly stated in this document.
” 20. (Mama:) The Enemy hates having his agenda and plans exposed, being stripped bare for all to see his true intentions, so I'm pretty sure he's going to fight this GN … ”.
Um, yes, that’s exactly why the evil devil inspires us to communicate on a public web site.
“… I'm expecting to hear shouts of protest from some of the apostates, because they won't like what I'm saying--or what Jesus and Dad have to say. But though I know it will probably get torn to shreds by some of the apostates, it's worth the retaliation and counterattacks if it's going to help to save even just a few of your lives for the Lord, and help you to stand strong for Him.”
Glad we can help you out there Maria. You know, maybe you are a great prophetess after all.
12. … in this GN we're going to zero in more on a topic that was addressed some in the GN "Stay on the Wall" (ML #3303, GN 902)--which, by the way, would be good for you to reread if you haven't done so recently.
13. The contact that many of you have had, and some of you continue to have, with the Enemy's lies via antagonistic ex-members–-either in person, by letter or e-mail, or going on their websites and chat groups on the Internet--has been a part of your weakening. It has caused a deterioration of your faith and convictions, and has contributed to pulling you away from the Word and causing you to doubt. It's one of the Enemy's inroads to bring about compromise and to ultimately destroy the Lord's work. Sad to say, some of you just don't see it. You think you're strong enough and can drink it all in without being affected. But you who think you know better or who don't heed the Lord's counsel will continue to be weakened to the point of eventually forsaking your place of service and your crown.
14. I realize that not everyone has been in contact with antagonistic ex-members, but there are a great many of you who have, either personally or via others who have and who have passed on to you what they are saying. So if the shoe fits, wear it! …
15. You must make a personal decision to not keep dabbling in the doubts, but to slam the door and realize with conviction what these things are all about, and that they're designed by the Enemy to destroy your faith. You can't continually open the door of your heart to the Enemy's garbage, because it will weaken you. You can't allow yourselves to be so blown about by what antagonistic ex-members are saying--even if they're your loved ones or friends. …
16. … Even after all that the Lord has explained about how vicious and malicious the Vandari demons are (ML #3420, GN 1007), some of you are still wallowing in the stuff that those who are influenced by the Vandari are spewing out. So how do you think you're going to be strengthened? If you continue on down this path, you're on your way out of the Lord's will and out of His service. You can't help but be weakened.
17. And if you're tempted to believe the apostates' words and advice over God's Word and the things Peter and I have said over the last few years in many different GNs--such as "None of These Things Move Me" (ML #3307, GN 906), "The Way Things Really Are in WS" (ML #3309, GN 910-911), and "Stay on the Wall" (ML #3303, GN 902)--then you'd be wise to ask the Lord why. …
18. Some of you tend to think, "What's the big deal? Why all the fuss about protecting my spirit? I'm strong enough to read others' doubts and not be affected!" Well, I've got news for you--you're not strong enough!
If after being raised for their entire lives in the Family, reading the group’s publications for hours every single day, being continually surrounded by other people who believe that The Family is the best place in the world to be, if after all the continual reinforcement of how happy everyone should be to be in the Family, after all the deliberate planning to strengthen the resolve of young people in the Family and to keep them in the group, these youth are not “strong” enough to even hear questions, then it seems that there is something very wrong with the “truth” Maria is desperately trying to cling to.
When someone makes a specific statement, there are measurable criteria by which their claim can be substantiated. To demand that others just take their word for it would be ludicrous. Academic publications of any substance are always peer reviewed and questioned and attacked from all sides. If the findings are valid, then the criticisms are shown to be unfounded and the facts speak clearly for themselves. Light doesn’t need protection from the darkness. If a claim is solid and true, then it can stand up to scrutiny.
Apparently even Jesus is feeling a bit threatened by what we write on this web site.
27. (Jesus:) The Enemy's goal is not just to destroy the Family, to stop you from serving Me and reaching the world. He doesn't just want to take you away from the Family; that's not his final goal. He will start there, but his ultimate goal is to destroy your faith, and he'll eat away at it bit by bit. He doesn't just want you to stop serving Me. His end goal is to get you to reject Me and even hate Me. He doesn't even want you to be a Christian. That's his ultimate goal, to get you serving him instead of Me‚ and he is relentless.
29. (Mama:) I'm going to share with you a few examples of things that some of the apostates are saying so that you can see more clearly what the Lord just talked about in the above message. … Some of these apostates no longer even consider themselves Christians. They've lost all faith. They have become reprobate, vicious, hateful, bitter, and have even talked about violence against us in some cases. They're not just against the Family; they're anti-God and against all that He stands for, and the Enemy is trying to use them to attempt to destroy the Family, whose main and express mission is to win souls.
30. The results of a recent poll on a Web site for former Family members, tallying the votes of 135 participants, showed that only 29.63% still consider themselves Christians. 31.11% were agnostic, and 39.26% were atheist, Buddhist, pagan, undecided, or other.
Oh no, some of us are no longer Christians. Could it possibly be a corrupt tree bringing forth corrupt fruit? Or perhaps it’s just the diversity that exists in the real world. Some of us are single too, some divorced and some married. We have all different types of jobs as well, not just “missionary”. Some have children and some don’t. Views on everything from politics to sex to education vary widely. That’s okay. In the real world people don’t “all feel the same inside”. We are individuals and make our own choices about what we believe is right for us. We can respect each other and even be friends regardless. In fact the only thing that all of us seem to agree on is that leaving The Family was the best decision we ever made.
On the topic of polls, there was another one here, just as valid as the one that was cited in this publication, which asked “what degree of abuse did you experience in the Family?”. 15.38% said none. 20.98% said only verbal, 19.58% said only physical, 6.29% said only sexual, and 37.46% said all three. That’s a total of 84.31% that considered themselves to have been abused growing up in the Family.
Here are some of the quotes taken from us on this web site that they chose to include in this publication:
(Excerpts from ex-members:)
I don't discard Christianity (and all religions for that matter) because of the Family. That would be too simplistic and irrational; truth and fact are not based on emotionalism. I reject religion because it is false, irrational and otiose. … We've heard enough of this rubbish and don't care to hear anymore.
I don't personally believe in religion, and as far as God goes, I'm an agnostic.
I just wonder why do some people feel it's a bad thing to reject religion? Is it really that bad that people decide that they will no longer believe in fables and questionable ancient writings found in the Bible and other religious books?
I turned from Christianity, which triggered so many unpleasant memories‚ to a more holistic and mystical type of spirituality. Instead of cracking my Bible‚ I read tarot cards.
A lot of ex-members are no longer Christians of any kind. Some are all-out atheists. Others are still deciding, and some don't care, and yet there's also those who still wake up and cross themselves before they take a smoke. … I don't care for or about religion of any sort and it's not in my train of thought. I'm not an atheist; I just couldn't care less for living a religious lifestyle … my opinion is that it's totally normal to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Now when I see a Bible, I throw it away! All it brings me is bad memories!
Prepare yourselves [the Family] for a future of fighting for your very survival as an organization. The tidal wave will grow. You will be washed away.
If I could, I would rid the world of all those that started and had any part in [the Family].
The Family is heading towards a full-on confrontation with their victimized generation. And if we have our way, we will bring the Family to its knees. … [Mama, Peter] and many others must (and hopefully will) be brought to task for their crimes.
31. (Mama:) That's just a small sampling of the words and attitudes of those who've drifted so far from the faith that they've discarded it in many cases, and have even turned to fight us in some cases. So when you hear things from folks like these, consider the source …
Maria, I understand that high IQs are not required for cult leader successors, especially those that sleep their way to the position, but if what we are saying here on this web site is all the Evil Devil’s Lies, why are you quoting us to make your own points ?
32. Most of the apostates' complaints and accusations are about things that they themselves admit were only done in the past. (Of course, you also have to realize that some accusations aren't true, and never happened at all, or the facts have been embellished and distorted.) But the Enemy is still using them to try to annihilate the Family of today and the work we're doing that no other missionary group is doing as enthusiastically, willingly, and effectively as we are.
33. In their bitterness they're trying to tear down God's work that's saving souls every day because something bad happened to them in the past, or they heard about something bad that happened to someone else. They keep repeating whatever happened to them or to others, and it grows and is enhanced and embellished each time, as the Enemy stokes the fire of their bitterness and they keep adding fuel to it. They spread their bitter tales, that are cleverly spun by the Enemy, and it doesn't matter to him what they say or what they spread--whether it's true or false--as long as it accomplishes his goal of hurting people's faith and making them doubt. The Enemy wants you in the Family to stop what you're doing, leave the Lord's work, quit winning souls, and ultimately turn your backs on Him completely.
88. The Family is a growing, changing movement, and as such it has gone through many phases, revolutions, and even difficulties … We should focus on the good things from the past and not forever dwell on what went wrong or what mistakes were made. The good far outweighed the bad, even in the cases of those who did suffer from mistakes or problems. We've grown as a result of difficulties and have changed things that needed changing, and we'll continue to do so.
Actually Maria, who we are now is a culmination of who and what we were. Character and integrity, whether individually or as an organization, is determined by the choices that we make. We, the ones who know more about the Family that any of your supporters and apologetics, beg to differ that the good far outweighed the bad. Every “poor lost soul” you save is nothing if in the process you have hurt and tried to destroy the ones that were directly entrusted to you and to your members, our parents. When you time and again sacrifice the rights and well being of individuals for the “good” of the movement than it cannot be a healthy, safe environment. What you have created and what you maintain is a parasitic organization, it serves no one but itself.
35. (Dad:) I don't understand why any of you would even desire to read the lies of those who are fighting against the Family. A very few of you have to, because it's your work, but I pray you are being faithful to clean your hearts and spirits through the Word.
36. Do you think the Lord gave the Devil the time of day? Do you think He sat down and listened to all the Devil's lies, accusations, and the like? No! Give no place to the Devil! Those negative postings, letters, and e-mails from apostates are designed by the Devil to destroy your faith. So for you to be reading them, you are giving place to the Devil. You are deciding to give place to the Devil‚ and it is disobeying God's Word to do so.
37. Once you find out where the antagonistic ex-members are at--even if they are your friends or relatives --why even bother to burden your spirits with such depression, if these communications are nothing but garbage? Maybe you think you have to read this stuff because it's your friend or your brother or your sister. Well, if doing so is bearing bad fruit, I'd suggest you pray and ask the Lord about not reading it, or sending such communications to your shepherds to read first, and get the summary without having to read all the doubts and trash they contain.
38. Maybe that sounds drastic to some, but we're in a war! Would soldiers in war want to read letters from their enemies that would demoralize them and tear down their faith in their commander and their cause? Of course not! The Word says you are to love your enemies and pray for them that persecute you and despitefully use you. … That doesn't mean that you're to love them so much that you wade through everything they have to say, and give them your time and attention by drinking in everything wholesale--including their trash and doubts.
39. Give no place to the Devil! That should be the motto of our Family. We fight the Enemy; we don't listen to him and reason with him and sympathize with him. We fight him! We hate the Enemy! We hate the God-damned Devil. And when he is working through the apostates, that means whatever tactics the Enemy is using through them to get to you must be fought, resisted and rebuked. Pray for the apostates, but don't give the Enemy any place in your heart. (End of message).
How desperate are you Maria? Send our letters to their “shepherds” first? Please. Do you think our friends are idiots? Our brothers and sisters have the same blood in their veins. Their desire for truth is as strong as our own. They want and deserve to know. Until you are willing to address the issues and not refuse questions that hit too close to home, the “doubting” will go on and on until no one with any integrity or intelligence is left. Why did the majority of the people who defended the Family during “persecution” leave soon after? Think about it. Most of the people you yourself chose to represent the group are now gone. It’s because they were faced with the reality and the totality of what you and Berg and the Family leaders had done, and it was in defendable.
Quite frankly Maria, I think you are a coward. If you truly loved David Berg and believed what he taught, why are you hiding behind the fear of the “system”? Stand up and be counted. Be the leader he was at least and tell the world that you are proud of his Law of Love in every aspect of it. You have said to your leaders that you don’t believe that there is anything wrong with a little “fondling” of children by adults. Why don’t you just come out and make that point clear to your followers and let them decide for themselves whether or not they are willing to face the growing outrage because of this. Mistakes were made? Spare us. We know that you don’t believe that for a minute. You pile the guilt on your followers and demand that they stand up for the group’s beliefs, but where is your own conviction? Why are you not willing to take a stand and go down for what you believe?
42. Some of the antagonistic ex-members are right about some things and some situations, and they do have some reasonable arguments about how bad situations were in certain instances in the past–-and even today they could make some pretty convincing statements about how spiritually weak some people are, those who aren't living up to the standard, etc. There are some things they can say that are correct, but there's a whole lot more they're saying that isn't correct.
43. So how do you know what's correct and what isn't? Well, the goal is not to try to figure out what accusation is right or wrong, or what percentage of it has some element of truth in it, and then if something someone says is right, say, "I guess I won't be able to live for the Lord anymore because he's right in what he's saying, and the Family really does have problems." That's a very immature way to operate. Some of you are so weak in the Word that if you hear something some antagonistic ex-member says that seems to really shake your faith‚ you swallow it hook, line and sinker. So what if they're right about some things! Of course the Family makes mistakes, and we'll continue to make mistakes--which we're sorry about, apologize for, and do our best to rectify and keep from happening again--but why should that make you stop serving the Lord?
44. Why should some idea, or some doubt, or some new bit of information--perhaps true, perhaps not--make you lose your faith? Is your faith that weak? If you're not really grounded and founded in the Word and you're looking to man more than to God, then your faith can be very easily shaken. It makes me wonder what your faith was built on in the first place or whether you had any solid convictions to begin with, if you're blown about with every wind of doctrine or every apostate tale.
Actually, if you are going to commit body, mind and soul to something you believe in, you better make damn sure you know precisely what “accusation” is correct and which is not. If you are asked to put yourself and your family in harms way and to endure intense “persecution” for your organization, you should absolutely be 100% sure the persecution is “for righteousness sake” and not just for the sake of the arrogance of the leaders who cannot admit they were wrong and because of their own fear of the repercussions of their own crimes.
About a year ago some young people told Peter (Steve Kelly) that the things being discussed on this web site would not just go away. They told Peter that things would get ugly at some point and he might want to meet and negotiate something while he still could. Peter said that neither he or Maria was interested in doing that. He said that unless people were willing to be “positive” and it was done “respectfully” and on their terms no negotiation would ever be forthcoming. Maria and Peter would rather take the entire Family down with them than to consider making restitution or even acknowledging the harm they have caused. If things that we say are correct, why have they still not been adequately dealt with? These are not “mistakes”. You don’t fall over and accidentally rape a child. You don’t loose your footing and beat a child senseless. If these were just all the fault of individuals, then cut them loose, turn them over to the authorities and the Family can move on.
45. Boy, I'll tell you, if I were you and had been in the Family and believed in its doctrines and goals for 15 or 20 or more years, I'd want to be dead sure that I was doing the right thing in throwing it all down the drain just because of thoughts put into my mind by the Enemy. It would only be smart and sensible to hear the other side as well, to ask the Lord my questions, to think things through, and get the right take on things, instead of just listening to a few people's opinions and making my decision based on that. "Where no counsel is, the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety" (Pro.11:14).
46. I've heard of some who have heard one thing from an ex-member and they've said, "That's it. When I heard that, I decided it was time to go." Well‚ obviously they'd already been weakened and thinking about leaving for a long time anyway, but still it's amazing how some of you can be so impulsive after hearing just one thing that totally shocks or destabilizes you. You don't think it out, you don't go to the Word, you don't ask the Lord, and you just think, "How could that bad thing have ever happened? And if it did happen, then I can't conscientiously stay in the Family."
They should hear the “other side” of what we are saying now? What the hell do you think they have been hearing for their entire life? As usual Maria, you give our generation absolutely no credit. When people “suddenly” decide to leave the group, it means that they have had long term questions about the sensibility of your fanatical movement. They are not being impulsive. What they have had is someone, and in our case over a thousand someones, confirm what they felt to be true themselves for some time. That’s what has happened here on this web site. We all have a small piece of the picture, first hand knowledge of unethical and criminal behaviour. When we start talking about what we know, when our “bundles of faith” are unwrapped and put together, the enormity and depth of the evil, the cover-up and your arrogance in thinking that you did get away with it is astounding.
47. If you're doing a work for the Lord and serving Him in a place that you believe is the most conducive to doing so, and if you have your convictions firm in that respect, then it behooves you to face the facts that you're probably just going to have to live with some of the mistakes or things that may have happened--or didn't happen, as the case may be--in the past. If you're doing the job you know the Lord has called you to, in the place you know is His will for you to do it, then you're just going to have to own up to the fact that nothing is ever going to be perfect!
48. You're going to stand before the Lord one day and give account for your life and service to Him, no matter what anyone else does or says. I don't think He's going to accept an excuse like, "Well, Lord, I know You led me to the best place on Earth to serve You (or I was born into it), and You gave me so much truth, but there were just too many problems and mistakes made by other people, and the organization wasn't perfect. I couldn't in all good conscience continue serving You, so I had to take a different road." I'm pretty sure that's not going to "cut the mustard" with the Lord or be a good enough excuse in His book!
49. Look at people in the world. There are millions who put up with problems and difficulties because they like their job or vocation and they feel called to it. And there are many more who put up with a whole slew of difficulties for no higher purpose or reason at all. You can't always have perfect working conditions or a perfect organization to work within. No organization is perfect--no church group, political group, commercial group, business, or what have you. And if you want to do the job of reaching the world and you know that's what you're supposed to do, then so what if the conditions aren't the greatest or if there are problems along the way! (2Tim.2:3). You endure problems and difficulties just by living on this Earth in the first place, because it's life no matter who you are! But thank the Lord that we in the Family have it a whole lot better than those in the world! And we're working to make the Family better all the time, solving the problems and overcoming the difficulties as they come up!
You have got to be kidding here Maria. We all must give account for ourselves. Even when you refuse to answer to us, you must know deep down that you have much to answer for. How can anyone say, “well I saw my lover molest his grand-daughter, but I did not do anything because he could revoke my position as first officer in his cult and besides she was a slutty 11 year old”? How can you believe in a God and not think that you have a hell of a lot to answer for? We here on this web site are people in “the world” and we know that, yes legal organizations are not perfect, but they are accountable. When criminal behaviour occurs in an organization, people are held responsible. Look at the current Catholic Church scandal. Anyone who has knowledge and just puts up with “problems” of this nature is not only unethical themselves but criminally responsible.
91. … Satan has lied ... put millions and millions of doubts in people's minds … But why did he do that? Was it that he was mistreated, misused, put down, talked badly about, or dealt with unlovingly? No. There was no basis for him to have any complaints whatsoever, but he still did.
92. It was because pride and bitterness entered into his heart and he no longer looked back on his life in Heaven as the beautiful gift it was, the rich heritage it was, the Home of Love it was, with the greatest King of Love. Even with the perfect conditions he was blessed to live with, he still threw it all away, and through pride and bitterness could no longer see any good in his past, and ever since his whole purpose for existence has been to try to tear down what he once cherished and loved.
93. He had the best life anyone could hope to have, but he threw it all away because of pride. And now for centuries and centuries he has been trying to discredit his former life and make it look like something very horrible--questioning God's motives and ways of doing things, …. And that's what some of our ex-members are doing as well.
97. (Jesus:) [Lucifer] has chosen to turn his back on all that was good, on his perfect living conditions and his privileged job by My side, and has instead chosen the road that leads to destruction, wanting to bring along with him as many as he possibly can. …
98. So you see, My children, even Lucifer, who had everything he could have ever wanted and lived in sheer perfection, threw it all away in his pride. And the life he had once lived, a blessed existence that was once beautiful and lovely and wonderful, morphed in his mind into something horrible, evil, and worthy of being destroyed. It wasn't that he had a bad life or that he had reason to turn on Me and his former life in Heaven. It was simply that he chose the low road. He chose rejection of truth and embraced the darkness, and ever since has been trying to convince men to love that same darkness rather than the beautiful light and love of My Spirit, truth, Word, and all of My fruits and blessings.
99. Because Lucifer was very elevated in the hierarchy of Heaven, he had a lot of influence. Spirits and angels looked up to him and respected him. He represented Me and My Father to the hosts of Heaven, and thus it caused quite a stumbling when he, in his pride, rejected the truth. It's much like it is for you in the Family as well, when those who were leaders, or very respected, turn away from the faith, and it causes a stumbling for the sheep. This is how it was in Heaven when Lucifer made his wrong choices; it was a big time of decision, and he influenced many with his doubts and lies.
100. He was able to use the most subtle and deadly, yet also most believable‚ lies --things about Me and My Father and the inner workings of the leadership of the spirit world. He said things to the spirits and angels such as, "You think you know Jesus, but I have seen things that you never saw." He used the trick of telling them that he had the inside scoop on the workings of the running of Heaven and Earth, and that if the angels and those in Heaven really knew how things were, if they really knew the "truth," then they wouldn't want to be a part of it.
102. Sadly, some of My children in the Family--both the first and the second generations--who have lived near-ideal lives with so many blessings from My hand, have chosen to walk away and forsake the life they once lived close by My side. … they led what many would call a "charmed life"--filled with love, joy, care, sincerity, trust, and truth.
103. But many have gone away and now look back on what was once a happy life--not a perfect one, but a happy one--and see everything so differently. Their perspective is warped and their view is tainted. In the place of many happy memories, there's only sadness and bitterness. In the place of the good, the bad is now all that is visible. But it's not that everything was bad or evil, or that their lives were filled with horrible memories. It arises from their perspective, the way their views have changed, and how they now see things differently as a result of the choices they have made.
I guess that must be the prophetess thing there again. Charmed, near-ideal lives? Are you joking? Are you actually telling us that you know that we were really happy in the Family? That even though we say were not and are much happier to be living our own lives now you know what we really think better than we do?
The reason that the “inside story” from people who have lived with you and Berg and Peter has such an impact on the people in the Family is because you all set that up. You placed yourselves on pedestals and told your followers that you are the infallible link for them to God. When an organization is dependent on a single person then it is vulnerable at that point. Just today Martha Stewart Inc.’s stock has plummeted 22% as news of her conviction hit. And by the way, in your own biblical analogy the angels were all in Heaven living with God, so I’m not sure how Lucifer could have given them the scoop on what God was really like.
105. (Mama:) Some of our ex-members did suffer. It's true. When I hear some of the things that happened to some people in the past, and how some were treated without respect, dignity, love and understanding, and how some shepherds abused their power and misunderstood people and did things contrary to the Lord's way, it's very sad, and Peter and I are very sorry these things happened. But on the other hand, you have to look at both sides of the picture and realize that most of our ex-members did have good lives, and were treated with love‚ respect and understanding. It's just that now some have chosen to see things very differently.
106. I recently heard of an ex-member who was complaining that she grew up learning to trust people in the Family, and that now she's disadvantaged because she can't trust anyone out in the System. Living in an atmosphere where there's love and trust is a beautiful thing, but now she looks back on her upbringing in the Family and feels it was negligent that she wasn't taught to be skeptical and suspicious of others! That would almost be comical if it wasn't so sad.
107. Our children in the Family had an awful lot of love lavished upon them when growing up. Sure, they had a lot of problems and trials, just as all children do, whether in or out of the Family. There's no child that doesn't have problems and battles. That's because that's the way the Lord has ordained it, and that's life. But many, many of the children in the Family had a very wonderful heritage and upbringing, and love-filled lives--not problem-free, of course, but if they'd been in the System their problems would have been a lot worse.
As usual you pick the most absurd example and use that to try to demean everyone who doesn’t agree with you.
Who do you think has a better idea of what normalcy is? You, who have spent 30 years secluded in a secretive cult or those of us who live, work and interact every day with average members of our societies. Most of us have friends now who did grow up in the “system”. They did not raise their brothers and sisters or other people’s children. They did not support their parents selling posters or singing on the street. Many of their parents paid for their university educations and put down payments on their houses or condos. They were raised in safe, close communities, with extended families that they grew up knowing and loving. If their parents are divorced, they at least know who their fathers are, and are not the product of some one night stand or prostitution. Most people do not wrestle with the trauma of sexual and physical abuse, and for even those who did experience abuse it was very rarely ever as prolonged or pervasive as it was in the Family. Our friends were not sent to labour camps or reform schools for things like wanting nice clothes or reading books.
116. Peter and I are committed to serving the Lord no matter what, as well as continuing to improve the Family and make it a better place for all of us to serve Him, through whatever means the Lord shows us to. But as we've said before, any changes or improvements are never going to equal compromise for popularity, fame, acceptance, financial power, plenty, or expansion. By God's grace, we will stay true to the radical doctrines that are what set us apart from the world and define our faith! We are and always will be a revolution! That will never change!
117. We're not afraid of the Family becoming small, and we're not fearful of being persecuted. I honestly believe that even if there were only a handful of people in the Family, who all believed and spoke the same thing, who were obedient, who loved the revolutionary life, and who used the new weapons and remained separate from the System, then the Lord would have His Endtime church. The Lord's not stuck on numbers, and I don't necessarily feel the Family is more effective with greater numbers--greater numbers who are all here 100%, yes. But if not, then a smaller handful who are united and fighting the same battles and living the Word would be more than sufficient for the Lord to work through and use for His glory--both today and in the days to come .
Clearly you will never listen to us or be willing to ever acknowledge the harm that you have caused. It’s always been about your control over your followers, not doing the right thing. You don’t even listen to them when they tell you they are tired of the endless drama and the constant whining from you to do as they are told. You demand that they be willing to give their lives and be out on the front lines when legal action and investigations occur, but refuse to be accountable even to them. Well, you have now dealt your hand and it’s time to face the consequences.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The entire document quoted above can be downloaded here: http://www.movingon.org/documents/gn1043.rtf
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|from the lord is holding off his return...|
Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 08:09
A verse for today" Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.
(reply to this comment)
Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:08
20. Enemy hates having his agenda and plans exposed, being stripped bare for all to see his true intentions...
This should have read “The Family hates having their agenda and plans exposed, being stripped bare for all to see their true intentions”
107. Our children in the Family had an awful lot of love lavished upon them when growing up.
This should have read “Our children in the Family had an awful love lavished upon them when growing up.”
(reply to this comment)
|from Rain Child|
Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 07:41
That was so brilliant! I think you are able to define the real issues so clearly. I'm so glad I can think for myself now, instead of always pushing my instincts and logic back. I listen to my own heart now, and I don't just call it the Enemy's Doubts. Thank you, Jules, for your clarity.
(reply to this comment)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:03
Once again Jules,
I find myself involuntarily forced to sing your accolades. Your deconstruction of the ‘new wine’ is a beautiful thing. With regard to the constant patronizing of SGA’s, I feel compelled to elucidate that such was a critical component (among many others) in my own decision to leave. Better to be a king in hell, than a pawn in heaven. Opps, how far I have strayed! The point is, that no matter how much devotion or dedication any child or teen raised in TF had---they were never going to succeed the FGA’s. The structure of the movement would not allow it. The fact that there remains a small (if ever dwindling) contingent of SGA’s is only testament to the superb conditioning techniques TF used, and to the unavailability of alternate recourse with regard to lifestyle choice which were provided. The doubts of which Zerby & Co. feel the need to warn their current members against are only strengthened by the evidence of our own lives (those of us who have left TF) and our successes in the real world---despite the almost insurmountable odds against us. It is with great pride that I read the contributions of others on this site, their insights, and what they have overcome. It is a wonderful testament to the resiliency of the human spirit to see among ones peers the success they have achieved despite lack of access to education and culture, while at the same time being raised in an environment of fear, distrust, abuse and neglect.
(reply to this comment)
Friday, May 14, 2004 - 19:35
Hey Jules, thanks for posting this article. Your insight and commentary is outstanding.
(reply to this comment)
Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 16:22
Those still in TF WAKE UP! you are living in a DREAMWORLD! do you REALLY believe that we that have left don't believe in Jesus Christ or do work for him? you are totally WRONG! my husband and I help the poor and those in need out of our salaries and we both have jobs and don't expect a handout! - we don't go to Church but show what we believe in by the way we BEHAVE! remember? be a sample not a sermon? arrrgh this makes me furious it's SO insulting! I can love my neighbour without screwing him and I love my son but I don't sexually ABUSE him! he can read magazines, watch videos and go to school and express himself! he is given privacy and allowed to develop his own mind instead of being controlled all the time! yeah, we were lavished with "love" as kids too much damn love! so much that we still bare the scars of the sexual, mental and physical abuse!
For the record I have forgiven those abusers, i Have even forgiven Zerby, Zerby if you read this I don't want to be in your shoes when you stand before God STILL leading all these people astray! remember Berg connected diseases with a spiritual flaw? well God is speaking to you through your disease and that is why you are BLIND! blind leading the blind! Berg (if that old decrepid goat he is dead because I believed you faked his death) is burning in the flames of hell as we speak for being such a pervert!. YOu ought to be very afraid about standing before the Almighty! That day is coming, hopefully soon, YOU are nothing but a rotten apple! not us! we are hardworking people who are mature enough to pick up the pieces of our lives, face the truth and get out! it takes a lot more courage to do that then to accept things as they are! I am THRILLED to hear our brothers and sisters coming to our website so they wake up and get out! for those of you still trapped or being blackmailed into staying I am praying for you that you free from the "The Family's" deception and control!!!!
(reply to this comment)
| From Vicky|
Friday, May 14, 2004, 01:06
Ummm, I hate to burst your bubble, but many of us AREN'T Christians, don't believe in the Bible, and don't do any work for Jesus. But, I do believe the vast majority of us are kind-hearted, generous, accepting of other's views and just all-round decent people, doing our best to live positive lives.
(reply to this comment)
Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 12:34
|from little exer me|
Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 17:53
You know I was thinking last night about why I am sad that my parents don't love me. I was thinking maybe I'm past the age where their approval or a supportive attitude or being proud of my accomplishments or just of me, should mean anything for me. Maybe I should no longer feel the longing for their unconditional love. Why, I wonder, do I lament the lack? Why do I want more than I can get even though I know I will never get it? And I think it has something to do with the fact that The Family touts itself as a panacea for all of the world's ills. There may be many lovesick children out there, but not all of them had it drummed into them systematically that they were highly fortunate to be born in a place where love was supposedly greater than everywhere else. So while my rational side is not taken by surprise at the continued insanity induced in my parents by the group, my deep emotions clamor all the more loudly for at least the bare minimum of love from those who claim to be the pinnacle of love.
(reply to this comment)
| From Mydestinyismine|
Tuesday, March 23, 2004, 20:53
Just a reminder to anyone who hopes for that unconditional love from their parents that are still in TF.
1. They believe in forsaking their children.
2. TF is their "true love" and you will always come 2nd or worse.
3. Love them regardless, if you wish, but don't expect any love in return.
4. If you openly oppose their doctrines they will be praying against you, posssibly for your death.
5. They said "We love you" your entire life and look at how that love was expressed.
6. Always remember, they may be your flesh parents, but you owe them nothing.
7. You will never be able to talk logically with them because they are deranged. And you can't talk Christianity with them because they don't follow biblical teachings.(reply to this comment)
| From sad grad|
Tuesday, March 23, 2004, 18:55
Anonymity works best when expressing our sappier feelings.
I feel you there. I sent my parents my college graduation picture, with the honors cord and all. I never received a word of acknowledgement in return, much less love or praise. On the one hand maybe it's how they deal with the fact that they wasted their adult lives, but even so you would think they could at least nod in recognition of me.
Same goes for my siblings. I reach out to them and ask how their WS lives are going, but they don't seem to give a shit about my daily struggle. It's like they shield their fantasy view of the world by not caring.
For the sharp tongued among you, don't bother. I know these are my sappiest of selfish emotional needs, but it feels good to write them down anyway.(reply to this comment)
Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 08:00
This morning I saw a link to this post by Lydia, on Crossfire. Jules, I'm so proud of you for this site, although it is primarily for SGA's, Generation-X. Recently, a next generation after Generation-X has been branded "Generation Wrecked", by a news source I read about a month or two ago.
In all reality, Jules, kids born and raised in the Family after the RNR, I called "RNR Children"! But, after reading the report about "Generation Wrecked", I immediately realized that's what became of the post-RNR children; they have grown up to be a wrecked generation.
It so sickens me that Maria and her top thugs still reverse everything to make it appear as the events which ex-Family refer to are always previous events; it's only historical events and isolated situations.--Yeah, right!:
"32. Most of the apostates' complaints and accusations are about things that they themselves admit were only done in the past."
Every chance their perverts get a chance to, they pull stuff off now, also. Even when I was still in the Family until August, 1990, that was always their line of rhetoric, that disgruntled ex-members were only talking about past events and blah, blah, blah!
In reality, the fact that Maria and Peter to this day have never accepted personal blame for what happened, and only credited a dead man, speaks for itself. Nobody ever was excused for anything by Leadership at any, at any level, if they didn't make a full confession specifically what it was they did wrong, request forgiveness and apologize. The fact that Maria refuses such a course of action for herself serves notice that the events are not past events at all.
Another point which always has irritated me, is that Maria always refers to ex-members' stories as lies. After the awareness she has of what you guys had to endure, she continues to attack you ex-Family SGA's information as just attacks and lies of the Devil. That itself is the attack of a very evil bitch. God damn her, I'm tellin' ya!
The fact that Maria claims that alot of you have totally rejected Jesus, proves my point, that the Letter "Your Two Year Old Can Receive Jesus" is false doctrine. You guys were all born and raised inside the Family, prayed at two years old to receive Jesus, memorized the Word from birth, yet alot of you have rejected the Lord, because of the conditions enforced by Maria herself--not just Mo.
(reply to this comment)
|from Joe H|
Monday, March 08, 2004 - 19:37
Unfortunately, Zerby is right when she says "MOST of the apostates' complaints and accusations are about things that they themselves admit were only done IN THE PAST," because I've only ever read one comment on here that didn't describe an event that took place in the past:
"As I type this, Uncle Andrew is fondling my breasts against my consent, and doing so with the approval of the leadership. I wish he would leave me alone and let me use the computer."
(reply to this comment)
Monday, March 08, 2004 - 12:42
Zerbster, here's a really novel thought: Reasoning and thinking things out for yourself is NOT the work of Satan. Of course, if you're into mind control as a way of life, you might be confused about that. Here's another radical notion: Doubt is a good thing. People of mature faith examine their doubts to determine the truth of their convictions. Of course, if your conscience has been in a coma since 1968, you might be confused about that.
(reply to this comment)
Monday, March 08, 2004 - 11:47
There are a few things about Zerbs writing here that worry me.
The first is her attempt to separate and divide up biological families just because some of us chose to no longer be in the group. She is suggesting that they censor our correspondence and in some cases even cut contact with us just because we choose to believe in something different.
One of the most important bonds that you should have in life in that family bond between husbands and wives, children and parents and siblings etc. and I do not believe that the group as a whole encourages these bonds, instead choosing to put the wellbeing of the group above the sanctity of family. If you have questions in life or problems the 1st person that you should be able to go to is your family. Your family should be able to help you through these things, however the groups policy is to cut you off if you have these genuine life questions that are in conflict with what they believe.
The other point that worries me is the way in which Zerb takes only select excerpts from this site and uses them as “evidence” of our diabolical and evil ways. She takes what best suits her needs and leaves the rest out. You can not realistically make a sound judgment on someone withought getting the whole truth and since she forbids her members to come to this site, all they get is a ½ truth.
(reply to this comment)
|from (Sam) Paul Eveready|
Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 19:28
Excellent article buddy!!!! Unfortunately, I joined the cult when I was 19 and missed out on formal training in writing, but I try. I was in the cult for 23 years, so you'll have to forgive my semi 'mental retardation', but with new friends, a new life and beer, its slowly coming back! Hah! What impresses me with your article, and the dozens of other articles you SGAs write, is how smart, articulate, socially aware and intelligent you all are! You all have a lot of balls, keep up the good work!!! As you wrote, the cult is in its death throes and Zerby's day of reckoning is fast approaching, PTL! I've been praying and working for the last 10 years to get the cult exposed and wiped out; looks like the old devil Berg was right about one thing; Prayer Changes Things, and I know for a fact that the Lord is on our side and will sooner or later send the Bride of Frankenstein and all her miscreant demon cohorts packing to hell. (To spend eternity burning with her End Time False Prophet.)
(reply to this comment)
|from moon beam|
Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 11:40
OH BOY! "some are considering violence" ? Didums....You lot encouraged, preached and carried out innumerable acts of violance towards your own children.
Their is none so Blind as those who cannot see! How is your eyesight these days zerby? and didnt the turd burger suffer in his throat? Maybe the dear lord was trying to tell him something!-All the FUCKIN' SHIT that came out of it!!!!
Before I go and 'repent' of my anger towards my abusers I'd like to know where you can find 1294 ex-sga's who have left and look back on their time as 'happy',where they haven't felt either Emotionaly, Physically, sexually, spiritually, mentally, Abused?
(reply to this comment)
Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 08:56
ML #3307:58-61, GN 906.
"Although the sociologists will accept that there is some truth to what the apostate says, studies have indicated that much of it is also slanted or distorted by their negative outlook and attitude, and therefore cannot be taken simply at face value."
"studies have indicated"? I see referencing is a particular weak point, which "sociologists" and what "studies"?
Zerby et al cite the sociologist "studies" as defining the nature of an apostate. Apparantly from this study the character of an apostate is coloured with a "negative outlook and attitude".
The dictionary: One who has forsaken the faith, principles, or party, to which he before adhered; esp., one who has forsaken his religion for another; a pervert; a renegade.
It is this definition that I baulk at. Aside from rejecting the labels of "pervert" and "renegade" the point that it was my parents not myself that decided to align themselves with TF shines through. As a consequence I had never voluntarily adhered to a set of principals from which I could then betray.
By condemning exers as apostates the implication is that we once believed in or followed the cult out of choice.
(reply to this comment)
| From Ne Oublie|
Sunday, March 07, 2004, 10:37
On needn't choose their religion to have been an ahderant of it. Bearing the same root as 'adhesive' it tends to denote the state of 'remaining' rather than that of 'choosing'. Whether or not each member of this site was indeed an adherant of TF beliefs is debatable - as some will hold that they never believed - I am not disputing this, only pointing out that the definition of 'apostate' is appropriate to most of us, and not necessarily offensive either.
The primary definition given by www.dictionary.com for 'apostate' is:
One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin apostata, from Greek apostats, from aphistanai, to revolt. See apostasy.]
This I consider to be appropriate.
While an alternate definition which includes the terms 'pervert' and 'renegade' is offensive, it must be understood that these terms are largely subjective, and thus what one considers to be 'perverted' or 'renegade' is not so to others - particularly when taken in the context of the vast discrepancy between the views held by TF and many on this site.(reply to this comment)
| From Jules|
Sunday, March 07, 2004, 12:00
I disagree with you on this and wrote something here some time ago about this. http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=9&ID=806
To summarise my opinion, being a member of the Family's religion entails more than just holding to their beliefs. It involves a way of life and some very specific rules to follow. The core of the Family's creed is what they term "discipleship".
"Discipleship" is supposed to be a personal decision and according to the Family, one entered into voluntarily:
"the price to be paid in terms of self-sacrifice is so dear that we urge anyone who would consider heeding God's call to discipleship to most solemnly "count the cost" before endeavouring to embark on such a path ... we recognise that pursuing this course is not possible for everyone. ... We believe that the degree to which one commits his or her life to Christ is a matter of personal faith and conviction."
Since minors cannot make lifestyle choices like this for themselves they cannot be considered adherents to the Family's religion.
Besides, if simply choosing another belief system than the one you were brought up in categorised you as an apostate, then every first generation Family member (apart from Berg's own children) became an apostate themselves when they joined the group. (reply to this comment)
| From Ne Oublie|
Sunday, March 07, 2004, 14:09
Fair point, my question to you would be at what age you think one can make that decision?
It is my understanding that religion is most commonly passed on from parents to children, typically being 'officiated' by a given act/event occurring at various times up until the 12th birthday (Circumcision, Baptism, First Communion, Bar/Bat Mitsvah, etc).
In Catholicism, for example, one is considered a Catholic from the time they are baptised - although there are still two sacraments to complete the 'process'. But once they've been baptised they are considered 'Catholic'.
The best equivalent that comes to mind for TF would be the 'salvation prayer' that is typically said with 2-year-olds. Other 'milestones' could be becoming a 'Teen' at 14, 'Senior Teen' at 16, 'YA' at 18, or 'SGA' at 21 - each of which are stages where more responsibility is taken on by members and could therefore each be considered 'gaining membership' to varying degrees.(reply to this comment)
| From Jules|
Monday, March 08, 2004, 12:12
To the Family, salvation does not equal being a Family member. A prayer with a two year old, according to their beliefs, guarantees a place in heaven, not a place in the Family. While the age brackets may seem to grant member status to their children at different intervals, there is no official point for the second generation at which they are allowed to evaluate their parents religion and decide to join the group as a member. They have always been considered (inaccurately) members by default.
The Family’s religion is not just a creed but a “new nation” (as they have always called themselves). The beliefs encompass every aspect of life and include their own code of laws and governance. Friendships and communications with outsiders which do not revolve around proselytizing are strongly discouraged. Because of this a more accurate comparison would be someone who has been born and raised in a fanatical Muslim country or other "high-demand" regime. If someone is born into an totalitarian society and disagrees strongly with their government, then attempting to leave the country and to start a new life somewhere else is probably their best option. It’s not easy to do so and it was not easy for many people who left the Family to do so either. If someone manages to escape from such a society, they are not considered an apostate, but a refugee, which IMO is a much more correct definition of our own experience. (reply to this comment)
| From Ne Oublie|
Monday, March 08, 2004, 15:34
You haven't yet answered my question - which is when YOU think one is able to make that decision for themselves.
The reason I brought up the salvation prayer is because it's the only such specific 'event' which I can think of, which entails any sort of 'ritual', if it can be described as such. I was drawing the comparison to other religions, some of which have specific ceremonies to symbolise the induction of a child born to members of their faith into that faith in their own right.
I think we'll all agree that TF considers anyone born into it to be a 'Knew Disciple' member, what I was asking is when, in your opinion, one is old enough to make such decisions for themselves?(reply to this comment)
| From Jules|
Monday, March 08, 2004, 17:43
If all things were ideal, probably between 18 and 21. Young people that age make lifestyle choices all the time and commit to career and academic choices, etc.
In the reality of the Family though, I think it is much more subjective and largely depends on individuals and the level of education and information they have had access to. For example, say a young man in the Family has access to educational programs, books, technology, local culture, outside friends, etc. and is given a lot of independence. His sister takes care of children every single day. She doesn't have time to read anything but the Family's publications, or even learn to use a computer. She rarely leaves the grounds of the house, except for the weekly trip to the local park with all the children in tow. Educational programs for her consist mostly of "childcare training" and "how to use flashcards". Which one do you think is more equipped to make an informed choice about whether or not to choose to become a Family member when they are of age? The word choice implies that there is more than one viable option, and for someone to freely choose to be a member of the Family there should be a number of accessible alternatives.
(PS: It would be more than a little annoying for the young man to be smug and condescending and consider himself superior to his sister, just because he was given opportunities she was not, don't you think?) (reply to this comment)
| From Please Note|
Sunday, March 07, 2004, 15:26
To be nitpicky, a Jewish acquaintace of mine told me girls have their Bat Mitzvahs at 12 and boys have their Bar Mitzvahs at 13 (because girls of course are more mature ;-)
But 2 years old?! Please note that to be baptized a Catholic does not obligate you to be a nun/monk/priest or soldier in an endtime army. You can be a tinker, tailor, shoemaker, sailor or yodeler. You can belong to a myriad of social milieus and economic strata. Families have a range of options regarding their children's education.
In TF, however, they think that if you have the gall to leave the life that you were born into, which encompasses all of your life choices, not just what church you attend and the content of your credo -- you are supposed to live a certain way. You are supposed to be a "professional" disciple, whatever tf that means, and you're not supposed to be a professional architect, programmer, businessman or opera singer-- and in TF's opinion as evidenced through recent writings, you have a "heritage as a child of David" which is as unshakeable as becoming a wise guy! What the hell is that?! Do they think they're Hotel California "you can check in any time you want, but you can never leave" under penalty of being a lifetime failure and "almost ran"?!
In the bad old monarchic days before human and civil rights awareness, it could be held against you that your lineage had offended the king. This is known as "blood taint." Today in politically developed countries, that concept does not exist and discrimination on such a basis, as well as on other bases that one has no control over, such as race, gender or disability, is a gross violation of civil rights!
EARTH TO MARIA: STOP HOLDING IT AGAINST ME THAT I WAS BORN IN YOUR CLUTCHES, AND EXPECTING IT TO CHART THE COURSE OF MY PRESENT LIFE, OR TO MAKE ME MISERABLE THAT I AM OUTTA THERE! YOU HAVEN'T THE SLIGHTEST JURISDICTION OVER ME NOW AND YOU NEVER WILL AGAIN!!!(reply to this comment)
Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 07:31
A charmed life? Zerby get a freaking clue! We are not on this site because we lived a charmed life we are on this site because we have been victimized for years. Children without a voice. Which part was charmed, the year I spent in the Jumbo hoping every day that that today would be better than yesterday, perhaps today I could speak to my sister w/o getting paddled, maybe today I would get off silence restriction, maybe today I could be in the pool with everyone else instead of doing calastenics, maybe today I would be allowed to eat again. Maybe today they would let me read the letter my parents sent because my 'spirit' wasn't right. Perhaps it was the following years when I watched my best friend spiritually quarantined in an attic repeatedly because he wasn't getting "broken enough". Perhaps it was my younger years trying to fend off the dirty old men from myself and my siblings.
If you are truly the leader you think you are STAND UP for God's sake and own up to what the Family has done to us. Stand up and denounce the way we were treated don't gloss over it and say "we may have". You DID to me, to my friends, to my family, and to people I don't even know. It is so easy to excuse this website as vandari working amongst us, easier I suppose than taking the blame and facing the facts. Zerby, I am a Christian and I am proud to be one, if you truly believe the Bible you will follow it's teachings. Turn the other cheek. Confess your sins.
(reply to this comment)
| From highonhigh|
Sunday, March 07, 2004, 09:59
Zerby better watchout. What she has inspire her followers to do & behave in some latin countries she will have to pay for it too. There is a quiet movement going on with some exs & some international lawyers to exposed TF leadership on the damages caused by the cults doctrines in some latin countries. Not having the proper visas, overstaying their visas,lying about their income & a whole lot of other things that I don't want to go into details. Not a lot of countries would like to have foreigner living like parasitize especially if you come from a a rich country. This lawyers are taking a good look on the so called family living styles, like provisioning, selling CDs & videos with out paying the proper taxes,proper registration of the so call missionary work & a bunch of other things that are not being done right. Even though in Latin america the poverty hinderes children from getting proper education in many countries is consider a crime if you have the possibility to send your children to school & you don't you can get in big trouble. When governments think of an international organization what they want is help & not people that came from the US & Europe to beg from the poor market people for food,live good lives by lying & deceiving or corrupt the minds of their nationals with weird doctrines etc. The authorities, by studying & investigating the group, will see where the group stands. I would like to see the answer of a 15 year old family boy when asked, what would you prefer, to get a proper education or be educated on how to masturbate with jesus with the loving jesus series for jetts & teens ?
By the way Zerby,I am a Christian & love the Lord with all my heart & thank Him everyday for opening up my eyes to the truth. Repent from your spiritual pride while still time. Confess you sins & ask forgiveness from all those that you hurt & most of all go back to the fundamental truth of the words of Jeus. Read your Bible & see how of the track you are. How can you be so proud in saying you are it, when you are a shame to the Christian world. I pity you, your selfshiness & pride has blind you.(reply to this comment)
Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 22:48
Ironicly, she uses the trust issue as an example, and call's it a "good thing"
The times that I was abused in the family, always came from my parents having too much trust in other family members, that they were leaving me in the care of.
So trust, among cult members, NOT a good thing!
Now that I am a parent myself, I have promised myself to be overly suspisious and parinoid, when it comes to the care of my child! and do NOT tell me that it's a sad thing, it's good, and right!
(reply to this comment)
|from I see a Maria Trick|
Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 18:35
See how she pulls out the argument "you've invested so much that will be blown away" when the fact is, the sooner you leave the better yuor chances for catching up, even though those years are all lost (which was just fine with me!):
"45. Boy, I'll tell you, if I were you and had been in the Family and believed in its doctrines and goals for 15 or 20 or more years, I'd want to be dead sure that I was doing the right thing in throwing it all down the drain just because of thoughts put into my mind by the Enemy."
I noticed on their youth site a girl saying "they seemed to believe it so much and then they left!?" Well, since the Family doesn't allow for doubters or less-than-100%ers, one can't show the waning gullibility! Plus, what if your children believed for 15 years? They have been children for most of those, and would have believed in Santa Clause too if you'd been indoctrinating them for that with no external input to raise questions!
What is really funny is the line:
"It would only be smart and sensible to hear the other side as well..."
She wants them to hear the Family's side...they've had the 15-20 years to do that...but when they hear the side *not* the Family's, she suddenly does not think it's "smart and sensible" to give us a hearing, rather lapses into her magical world of the scary "Enemy!!!!!" What an idiot she is.
You know, if it is the Enemy of what they stand for, he can't be that bad!
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|from Tim R|
Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 16:41
Great job with the Zerboid-to-English translation. She seems to get even more irrational with every letter.
And what's with this "Apostate" nonsense? I'm a Backslider, damn it!
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 16:35
Next thing you know they'll make visiting this site an excommunicable offense.
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 16:05
that's so awesome, old zerby quoted my poll. Hey Zerby, if family members can't go this site, then why can you? Oh yes, all those years of Mo's "Golden Seeds" must have made you so spiritually strong. -- Anxiously waiting for you to become the Endtime witness and go die in Jerusalem...or just go die anywhere for that matter.
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:38
Cool…it’s kind of satisfying in a way to hear them scrambling and scurrying around trying to cover their ass and at the same time trying to hold on to their dwindling membership.
It seems that a large percentage of their publications these days are having to be put towards their own defense, justification, and “clarifications” to their followers. Losing ground there, are you? Seems like trying to over-compensate, if you ask me. Wasn’t it even Berg who used to like to say, “It’s the hit dog that howls”? J
One of her statements that particularly irked me was where she assumes to declare for the abused that…” We should focus on the good things from the past and not forever dwell on what went wrong or what mistakes were made. The good far outweighed the bad, even in the cases of those who did suffer from mistakes or problems. We've grown as a result of difficulties ....”
How she has the gall to claim that for someone is beyond me. Until she has stepped into that place of victimization, she has NO RIGHT to make such a statement. How can she say for those that suffered that “the good far outweighed the bad”??!! Until she has a MULTITUDE (and by that I mean more than The Family’s standard 3 or 4 testimonies) of young people who will stand up and state for her that, despite these outrageous abuses—and, of course, these abuses would have to be comparable to some of the most severe ones suffered by us—that the good far outweighed the bad, and that they have now learned thus and so, and how much they’ve “grown as a result” of the abuses, she needs to SHUT HER MOUTH!!!
What I find hilarious now—although, of course, I didn’t see it at all when I was in TF—is the simplistic tactics of manipulation and denial: “Just don’t read it!” “Just take our word for it—they’re all liars and exaggerators!” “They only want to turn you into an atheist!”
But the real manipulation they use on their members is much more subtle. Did you all notice how whenever they talked about someone deciding to leave TF, or having thoughts about leaving, they keep using the words “weak,” “weakened,” or “weakening”? It’s all real subtle, but it sends the very clear message that one is bad, lesser of a person, and worthless to even think of leaving. Yet they claim not to do this! They claim that they support their members deciding on another way of life, and that they don’t look down on them or think lesser of them! Hello?
Sigh, so many lies…so little time.
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:37
sigh...... I just dont know what else to say. Jules, Nancy, porceleindoll and a few others have already clearly expressed my feelings and what I wanted to say in better ways I ever could. Its amazing though how TF will believe her (Zerby) over their own flesh and blood. My own mother wants nothing to do with this site, nor will she read anything I send her. It's really sad........
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 10:56
I take offense to her argument that because some individuals here are not "Christians," therefore, their accounts of abuse should be dismissed because Family culties should "consider the source." Well, Zerby, I am a Christian, not in your sense, though, and I proudly consider myself one of your strongest detractors. I smile to think there are only a few who are willing to do more to see you brought to justice. I think it is to my credit that I have so little time, but I willingly dedicate all I can to seeing that you and your evil cult are not successful in rewriting the sordid tale of your history and what you did to me, my siblings, my friends and an entire generation.
I do believe in God, and I pray regularly. I have seen prayer answered in my life. My faith is very personal, so I do not talk about it a lot. Yet, it certainly does not make my accounts of abuse any more legitimate than someone who does not believe.
Further, I take offense to your attempt to appropriate God to your evil ends. God no more currently supports or ever supported your wicked little cult than He supports Islamic Jihad, the Montana Militia, David Koresh, Jim Jones or any other individual or group that has committed acts of abuse and violence in the name of a religious cause. Frankly, in the words of a recent movie, "I think God tires of being called down on either side of the issue." This Zerby is a legal matter. You and your group, under your direction, conspired to exploit and abuse hundreds, if not thousands, of children on an international scale. Those children have grown up, and it is now time to answer for your crimes. Did you think you would go unnoticed? It's not persecution, honey; it's JUSTICE that has your number! You, my dear deluded cult leader, will go down in infamy when the truth is finally told to the masses as one of the worst and most abusive cults of all time. We're not talking about a few "mistakes or problems," either, my dear cultess. We are talking about an international conspiracy to exploit and abuse children. It happened, and now no matter what you do, you can never undo it. What lies ahead is only retribution.
And as far as God goes, well, I talk to him, too, and he said to tell you to spoke misrepresenting him!!! No one appointed you his spokesperson. You have twisted and distorted His message to your own ends to achieve your own selfish and evil purposes, and in so doing, you have scarred the lives of an entire generation. What you see coming, deary, is your own demise and the floods of justice reaped upon your wicked head. God also said to remind you of the verse which you often overlook. What was it again God? Oh, that's right. He said it's something about a millstone!!!
Now, politely, Zerby, stop misappropriating my God because he sure isn't your rag doll to manipulate as you please to your evil ends. Your trite argument that all of us who suffered under your watch and at your hand should be dismissed because we are not "Christians" won't work because you overlooked one of your biggest detractors, me, NANCY!!! What's that song, that song from the show Fame? Something about, "[Zerby] remember my name..."
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 04:57
I don't have a lot to complain about concerning my life in the Family, there are happy moments to be remembered, happy times. But what rankles me is this:
The utter lack of honesty and the underlying deceptivity as well as twisting of words and situations by the group leaders to ensure that its members do not know the entire truth. It happened time and again in many instances, and that deceptivity is a major factor that led me to reject the group and my former life.
In this the group succeeded: We were raised to be whole-hearted in all that we do and believe--so when the decision for rejection came, I had to do it wholeheartedly. Initially I didn't feel this antagonistic towards the group, but as I uncovered more and more dishonesty and deception, my feelings slowly turned to deep anger and rejection.
She says that no group is perfect--I find this ironic that she again holds the Family up by the standards of society when it comes to the group's failures, and yet claims to be so much better than the world at large in every other way. If you choose a standard to live by, then live by it and don't use the standards of others to excuse your weaknesses.
It is a little late now for me now, but perhaps a decade ago if the Family leadership had been more forthright with us, the dedicated members, about crimes, mistakes and legal situations (the Brit case to name one), admitting to the truth, and showing the steps being made to correct those errors, if the group had honestly come out and said "We really really messed up--and we honestly mean it--and this is what we're now doing to rectify the situation. All those who were hurt through our policies please contact us for an immediate investigation into your situation so we can legally deal with it and offer you the support you need to recover" then I may not feel quite so angry. It would mean that for the past decade honesty would be more prevalant, those who had been hurt in the earlier years of our childhood would have found apology and support as well as justice from the group, and the group at large would realise that these crimes did happen, but the criminals were exposed and dealt with through legal venues, not through a simple casting them out of the fellowship of the group, and into society to prey upon their members.
Whenever I wonder if maybe I have been too severe in my rejection of the group and its teachings, and if my now growing desire to expose it and them is misdirected, I go back to the original reasons I rejected the group:
Massive lies to its members
Abuse to the harm and emotional damage of children I knew and loved
Abuse and harm to persons in my immediate family
Deception on a grand scale that led to "revolutions" within the group (for instance, informing us that Mene was a demon possessed child, beginning the instigation of Victor Camps, a major revolution in the group which resulted in extensive harm to young people, when in reality she was being abused both physically and sexually by her own grandfather)
And when I remember those original reasons, I then remember the continuing lying that is happening to the Family at large, when I read GNs such as the one above and others that have been posted here and know that members are not being given an accurate portrayal of the whole story, that members are for the most part not diligently searching the truth, that members are being discouraged to see for themselves if this account is accurate, when I see the twisting of what Maria and her helpers are pouring out to the present Family and know that most (members) won't check into the origins of statements we have made about our past, it ignites the anger in me once again and re-establishes my desire and growing committment to see justice come about.
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 00:43
great analysis Jules -- bet the Zerb gets pissed off being dissed by a woman half her age!
I can't access the full document -- link doesn't work?
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 00:21
Once again Jules, you have outdone yourself. I enjoyed reading this.
It seems to be increasingly clear how desperate Zerbie is to distort the truth in order to keep the family’s doctrinal fantasies alive. – Zerb & Co will do ANYTHING to try and scream “persecution”, “the whole worlds against us and is our enemy, out to destroy us”, “we’re the david, they’re the goliath”. – Strikingly similar to the Branch Davidian’s mentality, everyone else is on the outside phobia/ paranoia, which Zerbs feeds to keep control of “Family” members by their own fears.
Yet she admits we’re telling the truth, and calls us liars at the same time. I wish she would tell me what is so outrageous about wanting to be violent toward child abusers (is it that hard for her to understand). – Most people would be holding themselves back by their last threads of civility when everything within them would want to beat the child abuser to a pulp. – But Zerby turns this around and points the finger at us “threatening violence”. – She certainly had nothing against violence against the children in her care, all sorts of punishments and deprivations, not at all simple parenting but forced indoctrination of a belief system etc. But woooaah, turn it around, it doesn’t look so good from the angle facing you, does it Zerb, all of a sudden violence against evil is bad, because the evil is you.
It was actually refreshingly amusing to see how she still uses mostly the same rhetoric as Berg did in his forceful orations back in the 60’s and 70’s, with the “if the shoe fits, wear it”, “slam the door on doubts”, “Boy, I’ll tell you”, etc.
One obvious point of contradiction was this:
“Maybe that sounds drastic to some, but we're in a war!”
“But thank the Lord that we in the Family have it a whole lot better than those in the world!”, &
“102. Sadly, some of My children in the Family--both the first and the second generations--who have lived near-ideal lives with so many blessings from My hand, have chosen to walk away and forsake the life they once lived close by My side. … they led what many would call a "charmed life"--filled with love, joy, care, sincerity, trust, and truth.
103. But many have gone away and now look back on what was once a happy life--not a perfect one, but a happy one--and see everything so differently. Their perspective is warped and their view is tainted. In the place of many happy memories, there's only sadness and bitterness. In the place of the good, the bad is now all that is visible. But it's not that everything was bad or evil, or that their lives were filled with horrible memories. It arises from their perspective, the way their views have changed, and how they now see things differently as a result of the choices they have made."
Maybe, Zerby hasn’t heard, but WW2, Vietnam & Korean wars have ended, and being in a War (real or imagined) is not considered “a happy life” to anyone, much less children who go through it. – You can’t possibly tell me that people walking around in a state of war are having “a happy life”. – But if you do believe it, then you SHOULD be in “the family”.
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Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 00:15
In reply to paragraph 48. The Lord I stand before is not gonna be the same god they stand before. I'm Christian and since leaving have gained a good knowledge of the bible. TF's doctrines are twisted versions or parts of scriptures, all designed to suit their need. So what I'm gonna say to God is: I was born into a cult that taught me about a abusive, fearful, perverted God and I left with the damages, but since then have learned that God is not like that and being a Christian is not following a "false prophet" or pretending to be a missionary. And why does she really think that once someone leaves they still believe they're gonna face her god and think TF is the best place.
Your reply to paragraph 49 was excellent. The sad thing is that her reason will be accepted in TF because they don't know better.
What are your thoughts on the new MM(missionary member) status?
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| From loch|
Saturday, March 06, 2004, 22:56
Seriously!? MM?? everybody is going to start loosing track of those stupid abreviations! "I'm a CM member (charter member, member) , no no, DO, no, was it TS? Oh no, MM, I'mean MF'er, er, er, ahhhh, I can't think for myself!!!"(reply to this comment)
| From Mydestinyismine|
Sunday, March 07, 2004, 20:03
MM is the new classification between CM and FM. To be CM you must now have at least 2 families(Can be SGA's) or 1 family and single parent instead of 1 family and alot of YA's and/or SGA's to complete the requirement. CM'ers will also have to stick to the charter's "spiritual guidelines" more so then they are now. MM is for those who can't make the CM requirement and for current FM who do alot of witnessing and abide more by TF "spirit". From what I hear alot of CM are now choosing to go FM. Either for their kids or situation. I was glad to hear about the ones who chose this for their kids. Unfortunately my parents are still bloody insane and seem willing to forsake their kids that don't want to be CM so they can remain CM. I believe this new classification starts in April and in June a 6 month probation/purge period.(reply to this comment)
| From Jedran|
Sunday, August 08, 2004, 07:42
The Family is currently going through its "renewal" during which time its members are being ordered to regroup themselves in larger "homes" of at least 6 FDs over 18, although they are being encouraged to have at least 8-15 adult members in a home. It seems that the Family Leadership has decided that it can keep a closer hold on the Family's members by increasing the amount of pressure that can be brought to bear on its field members. As has been mentioned before they are now three classifications of Family members, Family Disciple, Missionary Member and Fellow Member. The Family also has had a new group for members of the general public who subscribe to their Activated Magazine called Activated Members (AM). (reply to this comment)