Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article

from the lord is holding off his return... Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 08:09 (Agree/Disagree?) A verse for today" Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops. –Luke 12:2-3 (reply to this comment)

from thinker711 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:08 (Agree/Disagree?) 20. Enemy hates having his agenda and plans exposed, being stripped bare for all to see his true intentions... This should have read “The Family hates having their agenda and plans exposed, being stripped bare for all to see their true intentions” 107. Our children in the Family had an awful lot of love lavished upon them when growing up. This should have read “Our children in the Family had an awful love lavished upon them when growing up.” (reply to this comment)

from Rain Child Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 07:41 (Agree/Disagree?) That was so brilliant! I think you are able to define the real issues so clearly. I'm so glad I can think for myself now, instead of always pushing my instincts and logic back. I listen to my own heart now, and I don't just call it the Enemy's Doubts. Thank you, Jules, for your clarity. (reply to this comment)

from xhrisl Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 02:03 (Agree/Disagree?) Once again Jules, I find myself involuntarily forced to sing your accolades. Your deconstruction of the ‘new wine’ is a beautiful thing. With regard to the constant patronizing of SGA’s, I feel compelled to elucidate that such was a critical component (among many others) in my own decision to leave. Better to be a king in hell, than a pawn in heaven. Opps, how far I have strayed! The point is, that no matter how much devotion or dedication any child or teen raised in TF had---they were never going to succeed the FGA’s. The structure of the movement would not allow it. The fact that there remains a small (if ever dwindling) contingent of SGA’s is only testament to the superb conditioning techniques TF used, and to the unavailability of alternate recourse with regard to lifestyle choice which were provided. The doubts of which Zerby & Co. feel the need to warn their current members against are only strengthened by the evidence of our own lives (those of us who have left TF) and our successes in the real world---despite the almost insurmountable odds against us. It is with great pride that I read the contributions of others on this site, their insights, and what they have overcome. It is a wonderful testament to the resiliency of the human spirit to see among ones peers the success they have achieved despite lack of access to education and culture, while at the same time being raised in an environment of fear, distrust, abuse and neglect. (reply to this comment)

from dave Friday, May 14, 2004 - 19:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey Jules, thanks for posting this article. Your insight and commentary is outstanding. (reply to this comment)

from Bonita Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 16:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Those still in TF WAKE UP! you are living in a DREAMWORLD! do you REALLY believe that we that have left don't believe in Jesus Christ or do work for him? you are totally WRONG! my husband and I help the poor and those in need out of our salaries and we both have jobs and don't expect a handout! - we don't go to Church but show what we believe in by the way we BEHAVE! remember? be a sample not a sermon? arrrgh this makes me furious it's SO insulting! I can love my neighbour without screwing him and I love my son but I don't sexually ABUSE him! he can read magazines, watch videos and go to school and express himself! he is given privacy and allowed to develop his own mind instead of being controlled all the time! yeah, we were lavished with "love" as kids too much damn love! so much that we still bare the scars of the sexual, mental and physical abuse! For the record I have forgiven those abusers, i Have even forgiven Zerby, Zerby if you read this I don't want to be in your shoes when you stand before God STILL leading all these people astray! remember Berg connected diseases with a spiritual flaw? well God is speaking to you through your disease and that is why you are BLIND! blind leading the blind! Berg (if that old decrepid goat he is dead because I believed you faked his death) is burning in the flames of hell as we speak for being such a pervert!. YOu ought to be very afraid about standing before the Almighty! That day is coming, hopefully soon, YOU are nothing but a rotten apple! not us! we are hardworking people who are mature enough to pick up the pieces of our lives, face the truth and get out! it takes a lot more courage to do that then to accept things as they are! I am THRILLED to hear our brothers and sisters coming to our website so they wake up and get out! for those of you still trapped or being blackmailed into staying I am praying for you that you free from the "The Family's" deception and control!!!! (reply to this comment)

From Fish Wednesday, September 01, 2004, 08:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey Bonita were you ever in India??(reply to this comment)

From knows Bonita Wednesday, September 01, 2004, 09:40 (Agree/Disagree?) Hey Fish, were u ever in India? But as far as i know, the Bonita u r thinking of is still in the family... or she was just a yr ago... though so was i, so thats not saying much.(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Friday, May 14, 2004, 01:06 (Agree/Disagree?) Ummm, I hate to burst your bubble, but many of us AREN'T Christians, don't believe in the Bible, and don't do any work for Jesus. But, I do believe the vast majority of us are kind-hearted, generous, accepting of other's views and just all-round decent people, doing our best to live positive lives. (reply to this comment)

From oldtimer Thursday, May 13, 2004, 16:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Bonita, you are THE BOMB!!!! TERRIFIC POSTING!!! I wish every former ex'TF ertook you exact point of view! GOOD FOR YOU!!! DITTO to what you wrote. God bless you and your sweet little family. (reply to this comment)

from oldtimer Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 12:34

from little exer me Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 17:53 (Agree/Disagree?) You know I was thinking last night about why I am sad that my parents don't love me. I was thinking maybe I'm past the age where their approval or a supportive attitude or being proud of my accomplishments or just of me, should mean anything for me. Maybe I should no longer feel the longing for their unconditional love. Why, I wonder, do I lament the lack? Why do I want more than I can get even though I know I will never get it? And I think it has something to do with the fact that The Family touts itself as a panacea for all of the world's ills. There may be many lovesick children out there, but not all of them had it drummed into them systematically that they were highly fortunate to be born in a place where love was supposedly greater than everywhere else. So while my rational side is not taken by surprise at the continued insanity induced in my parents by the group, my deep emotions clamor all the more loudly for at least the bare minimum of love from those who claim to be the pinnacle of love. (reply to this comment)

From Mydestinyismine Tuesday, March 23, 2004, 20:53 (Agree/Disagree?) Just a reminder to anyone who hopes for that unconditional love from their parents that are still in TF. 1. They believe in forsaking their children. 2. TF is their "true love" and you will always come 2nd or worse. 3. Love them regardless, if you wish, but don't expect any love in return. 4. If you openly oppose their doctrines they will be praying against you, posssibly for your death. 5. They said "We love you" your entire life and look at how that love was expressed. 6. Always remember, they may be your flesh parents, but you owe them nothing. 7. You will never be able to talk logically with them because they are deranged. And you can't talk Christianity with them because they don't follow biblical teachings.(reply to this comment)

From sad grad Tuesday, March 23, 2004, 18:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Anonymity works best when expressing our sappier feelings. I feel you there. I sent my parents my college graduation picture, with the honors cord and all. I never received a word of acknowledgement in return, much less love or praise. On the one hand maybe it's how they deal with the fact that they wasted their adult lives, but even so you would think they could at least nod in recognition of me. Same goes for my siblings. I reach out to them and ask how their WS lives are going, but they don't seem to give a shit about my daily struggle. It's like they shield their fantasy view of the world by not caring. For the sharp tongued among you, don't bother. I know these are my sappiest of selfish emotional needs, but it feels good to write them down anyway.(reply to this comment)

from Ironsides Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 08:00 (Agree/Disagree?) Hello Jules, This morning I saw a link to this post by Lydia, on Crossfire. Jules, I'm so proud of you for this site, although it is primarily for SGA's, Generation-X. Recently, a next generation after Generation-X has been branded "Generation Wrecked", by a news source I read about a month or two ago. In all reality, Jules, kids born and raised in the Family after the RNR, I called "RNR Children"! But, after reading the report about "Generation Wrecked", I immediately realized that's what became of the post-RNR children; they have grown up to be a wrecked generation. It so sickens me that Maria and her top thugs still reverse everything to make it appear as the events which ex-Family refer to are always previous events; it's only historical events and isolated situations.--Yeah, right!: "32. Most of the apostates' complaints and accusations are about things that they themselves admit were only done in the past." Every chance their perverts get a chance to, they pull stuff off now, also. Even when I was still in the Family until August, 1990, that was always their line of rhetoric, that disgruntled ex-members were only talking about past events and blah, blah, blah! In reality, the fact that Maria and Peter to this day have never accepted personal blame for what happened, and only credited a dead man, speaks for itself. Nobody ever was excused for anything by Leadership at any, at any level, if they didn't make a full confession specifically what it was they did wrong, request forgiveness and apologize. The fact that Maria refuses such a course of action for herself serves notice that the events are not past events at all. Another point which always has irritated me, is that Maria always refers to ex-members' stories as lies. After the awareness she has of what you guys had to endure, she continues to attack you ex-Family SGA's information as just attacks and lies of the Devil. That itself is the attack of a very evil bitch. God damn her, I'm tellin' ya! The fact that Maria claims that alot of you have totally rejected Jesus, proves my point, that the Letter "Your Two Year Old Can Receive Jesus" is false doctrine. You guys were all born and raised inside the Family, prayed at two years old to receive Jesus, memorized the Word from birth, yet alot of you have rejected the Lord, because of the conditions enforced by Maria herself--not just Mo. (reply to this comment)

from Joe H Monday, March 08, 2004 - 19:37 (Agree/Disagree?) Unfortunately, Zerby is right when she says "MOST of the apostates' complaints and accusations are about things that they themselves admit were only done IN THE PAST," because I've only ever read one comment on here that didn't describe an event that took place in the past: "As I type this, Uncle Andrew is fondling my breasts against my consent, and doing so with the approval of the leadership. I wish he would leave me alone and let me use the computer." (reply to this comment)

From Wolf Wednesday, March 10, 2004, 11:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Why is that unfortunate? I would think it’s a good thing if the worst is in the past.(reply to this comment)

From Joe H Wednesday, March 10, 2004, 13:25 (Agree/Disagree?) Agreed, Wolf. What I meant was that it's unfortunate that Zerby was right.(reply to this comment)

from anovagrrl Monday, March 08, 2004 - 12:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Zerbster, here's a really novel thought: Reasoning and thinking things out for yourself is NOT the work of Satan. Of course, if you're into mind control as a way of life, you might be confused about that. Here's another radical notion: Doubt is a good thing. People of mature faith examine their doubts to determine the truth of their convictions. Of course, if your conscience has been in a coma since 1968, you might be confused about that. (reply to this comment)

from Nick Monday, March 08, 2004 - 11:47 (Agree/Disagree?) There are a few things about Zerbs writing here that worry me. The first is her attempt to separate and divide up biological families just because some of us chose to no longer be in the group. She is suggesting that they censor our correspondence and in some cases even cut contact with us just because we choose to believe in something different. One of the most important bonds that you should have in life in that family bond between husbands and wives, children and parents and siblings etc. and I do not believe that the group as a whole encourages these bonds, instead choosing to put the wellbeing of the group above the sanctity of family. If you have questions in life or problems the 1st person that you should be able to go to is your family. Your family should be able to help you through these things, however the groups policy is to cut you off if you have these genuine life questions that are in conflict with what they believe. The other point that worries me is the way in which Zerb takes only select excerpts from this site and uses them as “evidence” of our diabolical and evil ways. She takes what best suits her needs and leaves the rest out. You can not realistically make a sound judgment on someone withought getting the whole truth and since she forbids her members to come to this site, all they get is a ½ truth. (reply to this comment)

from (Sam) Paul Eveready Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 19:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Jules, Excellent article buddy!!!! Unfortunately, I joined the cult when I was 19 and missed out on formal training in writing, but I try. I was in the cult for 23 years, so you'll have to forgive my semi 'mental retardation', but with new friends, a new life and beer, its slowly coming back! Hah! What impresses me with your article, and the dozens of other articles you SGAs write, is how smart, articulate, socially aware and intelligent you all are! You all have a lot of balls, keep up the good work!!! As you wrote, the cult is in its death throes and Zerby's day of reckoning is fast approaching, PTL! I've been praying and working for the last 10 years to get the cult exposed and wiped out; looks like the old devil Berg was right about one thing; Prayer Changes Things, and I know for a fact that the Lord is on our side and will sooner or later send the Bride of Frankenstein and all her miscreant demon cohorts packing to hell. (To spend eternity burning with her End Time False Prophet.) Tom (reply to this comment)

From TYJ Sunday, March 07, 2004, 20:26 (Agree/Disagree?) yep, PTL for Jules' big balls.(reply to this comment)

from moon beam Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 11:40 (Agree/Disagree?) OH BOY! "some are considering violence" ? Didums....You lot encouraged, preached and carried out innumerable acts of violance towards your own children. Their is none so Blind as those who cannot see! How is your eyesight these days zerby? and didnt the turd burger suffer in his throat? Maybe the dear lord was trying to tell him something!-All the FUCKIN' SHIT that came out of it!!!! Before I go and 'repent' of my anger towards my abusers I'd like to know where you can find 1294 ex-sga's who have left and look back on their time as 'happy',where they haven't felt either Emotionaly, Physically, sexually, spiritually, mentally, Abused? (reply to this comment)

from Alf Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 08:56 (Agree/Disagree?) ML #3307:58-61, GN 906. "Although the sociologists will accept that there is some truth to what the apostate says, studies have indicated that much of it is also slanted or distorted by their negative outlook and attitude, and therefore cannot be taken simply at face value." "studies have indicated"? I see referencing is a particular weak point, which "sociologists" and what "studies"? Zerby et al cite the sociologist "studies" as defining the nature of an apostate. Apparantly from this study the character of an apostate is coloured with a "negative outlook and attitude". The dictionary: One who has forsaken the faith, principles, or party, to which he before adhered; esp., one who has forsaken his religion for another; a pervert; a renegade. It is this definition that I baulk at. Aside from rejecting the labels of "pervert" and "renegade" the point that it was my parents not myself that decided to align themselves with TF shines through. As a consequence I had never voluntarily adhered to a set of principals from which I could then betray. By condemning exers as apostates the implication is that we once believed in or followed the cult out of choice. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Sunday, March 07, 2004, 10:37 (Agree/Disagree?) On needn't choose their religion to have been an ahderant of it. Bearing the same root as 'adhesive' it tends to denote the state of 'remaining' rather than that of 'choosing'. Whether or not each member of this site was indeed an adherant of TF beliefs is debatable - as some will hold that they never believed - I am not disputing this, only pointing out that the definition of 'apostate' is appropriate to most of us, and not necessarily offensive either. The primary definition given by www.dictionary.com for 'apostate' is: One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause. [Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin apostata, from Greek apostats, from aphistanai, to revolt. See apostasy.] This I consider to be appropriate. While an alternate definition which includes the terms 'pervert' and 'renegade' is offensive, it must be understood that these terms are largely subjective, and thus what one considers to be 'perverted' or 'renegade' is not so to others - particularly when taken in the context of the vast discrepancy between the views held by TF and many on this site.(reply to this comment)

From Alf Wednesday, March 10, 2004, 21:35 (Agree/Disagree?) You may consider the term appropriate, but it does not win the argument http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=adherent adherent: A supporter, as of a cause or individual: a vote that pleased adherents of education reform. Supporter again would imply we chose to support this particular cause, this was clearly not the case. TF may call children 'Knew/New Disciples', but this is no more accurate than summarily declaring some random newborn a member of B'Hai. A newborn child is not developed enough to make choices on matters of personal faith. (reply to this comment)

From Jules Sunday, March 07, 2004, 12:00 (Agree/Disagree?) I disagree with you on this and wrote something here some time ago about this. http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=9&ID=806 To summarise my opinion, being a member of the Family's religion entails more than just holding to their beliefs. It involves a way of life and some very specific rules to follow. The core of the Family's creed is what they term "discipleship". "Discipleship" is supposed to be a personal decision and according to the Family, one entered into voluntarily: "the price to be paid in terms of self-sacrifice is so dear that we urge anyone who would consider heeding God's call to discipleship to most solemnly "count the cost" before endeavouring to embark on such a path ... we recognise that pursuing this course is not possible for everyone. ... We believe that the degree to which one commits his or her life to Christ is a matter of personal faith and conviction." http://www.thefamily.org/about/statement.php?id=3 Since minors cannot make lifestyle choices like this for themselves they cannot be considered adherents to the Family's religion. Besides, if simply choosing another belief system than the one you were brought up in categorised you as an apostate, then every first generation Family member (apart from Berg's own children) became an apostate themselves when they joined the group. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Sunday, March 07, 2004, 14:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Fair point, my question to you would be at what age you think one can make that decision? It is my understanding that religion is most commonly passed on from parents to children, typically being 'officiated' by a given act/event occurring at various times up until the 12th birthday (Circumcision, Baptism, First Communion, Bar/Bat Mitsvah, etc). In Catholicism, for example, one is considered a Catholic from the time they are baptised - although there are still two sacraments to complete the 'process'. But once they've been baptised they are considered 'Catholic'. The best equivalent that comes to mind for TF would be the 'salvation prayer' that is typically said with 2-year-olds. Other 'milestones' could be becoming a 'Teen' at 14, 'Senior Teen' at 16, 'YA' at 18, or 'SGA' at 21 - each of which are stages where more responsibility is taken on by members and could therefore each be considered 'gaining membership' to varying degrees.(reply to this comment)

From Jules Monday, March 08, 2004, 12:12 (Agree/Disagree?) To the Family, salvation does not equal being a Family member. A prayer with a two year old, according to their beliefs, guarantees a place in heaven, not a place in the Family. While the age brackets may seem to grant member status to their children at different intervals, there is no official point for the second generation at which they are allowed to evaluate their parents religion and decide to join the group as a member. They have always been considered (inaccurately) members by default. The Family’s religion is not just a creed but a “new nation” (as they have always called themselves). The beliefs encompass every aspect of life and include their own code of laws and governance. Friendships and communications with outsiders which do not revolve around proselytizing are strongly discouraged. Because of this a more accurate comparison would be someone who has been born and raised in a fanatical Muslim country or other "high-demand" regime. If someone is born into an totalitarian society and disagrees strongly with their government, then attempting to leave the country and to start a new life somewhere else is probably their best option. It’s not easy to do so and it was not easy for many people who left the Family to do so either. If someone manages to escape from such a society, they are not considered an apostate, but a refugee, which IMO is a much more correct definition of our own experience. (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Monday, March 08, 2004, 15:34 (Agree/Disagree?) You haven't yet answered my question - which is when YOU think one is able to make that decision for themselves. The reason I brought up the salvation prayer is because it's the only such specific 'event' which I can think of, which entails any sort of 'ritual', if it can be described as such. I was drawing the comparison to other religions, some of which have specific ceremonies to symbolise the induction of a child born to members of their faith into that faith in their own right. I think we'll all agree that TF considers anyone born into it to be a 'Knew Disciple' member, what I was asking is when, in your opinion, one is old enough to make such decisions for themselves?(reply to this comment)

From Jules Monday, March 08, 2004, 17:43 (Agree/Disagree?) If all things were ideal, probably between 18 and 21. Young people that age make lifestyle choices all the time and commit to career and academic choices, etc. In the reality of the Family though, I think it is much more subjective and largely depends on individuals and the level of education and information they have had access to. For example, say a young man in the Family has access to educational programs, books, technology, local culture, outside friends, etc. and is given a lot of independence. His sister takes care of children every single day. She doesn't have time to read anything but the Family's publications, or even learn to use a computer. She rarely leaves the grounds of the house, except for the weekly trip to the local park with all the children in tow. Educational programs for her consist mostly of "childcare training" and "how to use flashcards". Which one do you think is more equipped to make an informed choice about whether or not to choose to become a Family member when they are of age? The word choice implies that there is more than one viable option, and for someone to freely choose to be a member of the Family there should be a number of accessible alternatives. (PS: It would be more than a little annoying for the young man to be smug and condescending and consider himself superior to his sister, just because he was given opportunities she was not, don't you think?) (reply to this comment)

From Nick Monday, March 08, 2004, 12:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Exactly. I mean I remember doing a shows at schools in India where they will get 300 little kids to repeat a prayer in English, (I doubt ½ of them even understood English) and this was supposed to guarantee their salvation and a place in heven???(reply to this comment)

From Please Note Sunday, March 07, 2004, 15:26 (Agree/Disagree?) To be nitpicky, a Jewish acquaintace of mine told me girls have their Bat Mitzvahs at 12 and boys have their Bar Mitzvahs at 13 (because girls of course are more mature ;-) But 2 years old?! Please note that to be baptized a Catholic does not obligate you to be a nun/monk/priest or soldier in an endtime army. You can be a tinker, tailor, shoemaker, sailor or yodeler. You can belong to a myriad of social milieus and economic strata. Families have a range of options regarding their children's education. In TF, however, they think that if you have the gall to leave the life that you were born into, which encompasses all of your life choices, not just what church you attend and the content of your credo -- you are supposed to live a certain way. You are supposed to be a "professional" disciple, whatever tf that means, and you're not supposed to be a professional architect, programmer, businessman or opera singer-- and in TF's opinion as evidenced through recent writings, you have a "heritage as a child of David" which is as unshakeable as becoming a wise guy! What the hell is that?! Do they think they're Hotel California "you can check in any time you want, but you can never leave" under penalty of being a lifetime failure and "almost ran"?! In the bad old monarchic days before human and civil rights awareness, it could be held against you that your lineage had offended the king. This is known as "blood taint." Today in politically developed countries, that concept does not exist and discrimination on such a basis, as well as on other bases that one has no control over, such as race, gender or disability, is a gross violation of civil rights! EARTH TO MARIA: STOP HOLDING IT AGAINST ME THAT I WAS BORN IN YOUR CLUTCHES, AND EXPECTING IT TO CHART THE COURSE OF MY PRESENT LIFE, OR TO MAKE ME MISERABLE THAT I AM OUTTA THERE! YOU HAVEN'T THE SLIGHTEST JURISDICTION OVER ME NOW AND YOU NEVER WILL AGAIN!!!(reply to this comment)

From Jules Monday, March 08, 2004, 12:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Well said. I completely agree with you. (reply to this comment)

from cheeks Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 07:31 (Agree/Disagree?) A charmed life? Zerby get a freaking clue! We are not on this site because we lived a charmed life we are on this site because we have been victimized for years. Children without a voice. Which part was charmed, the year I spent in the Jumbo hoping every day that that today would be better than yesterday, perhaps today I could speak to my sister w/o getting paddled, maybe today I would get off silence restriction, maybe today I could be in the pool with everyone else instead of doing calastenics, maybe today I would be allowed to eat again. Maybe today they would let me read the letter my parents sent because my 'spirit' wasn't right. Perhaps it was the following years when I watched my best friend spiritually quarantined in an attic repeatedly because he wasn't getting "broken enough". Perhaps it was my younger years trying to fend off the dirty old men from myself and my siblings. If you are truly the leader you think you are STAND UP for God's sake and own up to what the Family has done to us. Stand up and denounce the way we were treated don't gloss over it and say "we may have". You DID to me, to my friends, to my family, and to people I don't even know. It is so easy to excuse this website as vandari working amongst us, easier I suppose than taking the blame and facing the facts. Zerby, I am a Christian and I am proud to be one, if you truly believe the Bible you will follow it's teachings. Turn the other cheek. Confess your sins. (reply to this comment)

From highonhigh Sunday, March 07, 2004, 09:59 (Agree/Disagree?) Zerby better watchout. What she has inspire her followers to do & behave in some latin countries she will have to pay for it too. There is a quiet movement going on with some exs & some international lawyers to exposed TF leadership on the damages caused by the cults doctrines in some latin countries. Not having the proper visas, overstaying their visas,lying about their income & a whole lot of other things that I don't want to go into details. Not a lot of countries would like to have foreigner living like parasitize especially if you come from a a rich country. This lawyers are taking a good look on the so called family living styles, like provisioning, selling CDs & videos with out paying the proper taxes,proper registration of the so call missionary work & a bunch of other things that are not being done right. Even though in Latin america the poverty hinderes children from getting proper education in many countries is consider a crime if you have the possibility to send your children to school & you don't you can get in big trouble. When governments think of an international organization what they want is help & not people that came from the US & Europe to beg from the poor market people for food,live good lives by lying & deceiving or corrupt the minds of their nationals with weird doctrines etc. The authorities, by studying & investigating the group, will see where the group stands. I would like to see the answer of a 15 year old family boy when asked, what would you prefer, to get a proper education or be educated on how to masturbate with jesus with the loving jesus series for jetts & teens ? By the way Zerby,I am a Christian & love the Lord with all my heart & thank Him everyday for opening up my eyes to the truth. Repent from your spiritual pride while still time. Confess you sins & ask forgiveness from all those that you hurt & most of all go back to the fundamental truth of the words of Jeus. Read your Bible & see how of the track you are. How can you be so proud in saying you are it, when you are a shame to the Christian world. I pity you, your selfshiness & pride has blind you.(reply to this comment)

from loch Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 22:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Ironicly, she uses the trust issue as an example, and call's it a "good thing" The times that I was abused in the family, always came from my parents having too much trust in other family members, that they were leaving me in the care of. So trust, among cult members, NOT a good thing! Now that I am a parent myself, I have promised myself to be overly suspisious and parinoid, when it comes to the care of my child! and do NOT tell me that it's a sad thing, it's good, and right! (reply to this comment)

From Trust??? Sunday, March 07, 2004, 14:57 (Agree/Disagree?) I clearly remember being taught to NOT trust anyone who wasn't in TF. Maybe that is why that ex member had difficulty trusting pp. I even stopped trusting people in TF, because they ABUSED my trust. When I confided in shepherds, they used what I said to abuse me emotionally by telling me how bad I was to question or analyse the word--even though I was sincerely trying to understand--and giving me horrible self esteem issues that I deal with to this day. (reply to this comment)

from I see a Maria Trick Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 18:35 (Agree/Disagree?) See how she pulls out the argument "you've invested so much that will be blown away" when the fact is, the sooner you leave the better yuor chances for catching up, even though those years are all lost (which was just fine with me!): "45. Boy, I'll tell you, if I were you and had been in the Family and believed in its doctrines and goals for 15 or 20 or more years, I'd want to be dead sure that I was doing the right thing in throwing it all down the drain just because of thoughts put into my mind by the Enemy." I noticed on their youth site a girl saying "they seemed to believe it so much and then they left!?" Well, since the Family doesn't allow for doubters or less-than-100%ers, one can't show the waning gullibility! Plus, what if your children believed for 15 years? They have been children for most of those, and would have believed in Santa Clause too if you'd been indoctrinating them for that with no external input to raise questions! What is really funny is the line: "It would only be smart and sensible to hear the other side as well..." She wants them to hear the Family's side...they've had the 15-20 years to do that...but when they hear the side *not* the Family's, she suddenly does not think it's "smart and sensible" to give us a hearing, rather lapses into her magical world of the scary "Enemy!!!!!" What an idiot she is. You know, if it is the Enemy of what they stand for, he can't be that bad! (reply to this comment)

From loch Saturday, March 06, 2004, 22:50 (Agree/Disagree?) That last paragraph is soooooo true, and the point that I have been trying to make to my siblings exactly!(reply to this comment)

from Tim R Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 16:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Great job with the Zerboid-to-English translation. She seems to get even more irrational with every letter. And what's with this "Apostate" nonsense? I'm a Backslider, damn it! (reply to this comment)

From dave Friday, May 14, 2004, 19:53 (Agree/Disagree?) lol Tim. I kinda miss the old 'Cult' speak.. "I'm a Backslider". It seems the Family has gotten caught up in being politically correct and are not speaking as clearly as Berg would if he would around today.(reply to this comment)

from jpmagero Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 16:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Next thing you know they'll make visiting this site an excommunicable offense. (reply to this comment)

From itsxena2u Sunday, March 07, 2004, 18:23 (Agree/Disagree?) As far as I know, IT IS! A friend of mine received partial excom for visiting this site!! How ridiculous!(reply to this comment)

From Kayte Saturday, November 20, 2004, 11:37 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, you can get excommuniated for "spreading doubts." Sounds like the Inquisition...(reply to this comment)

From Nancy Sunday, March 07, 2004, 20:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Isn't it odd that Family WS follows this site almost daily, but the average member is not allowed here?(reply to this comment)

from surfer Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 16:05 (Agree/Disagree?) that's so awesome, old zerby quoted my poll. Hey Zerby, if family members can't go this site, then why can you? Oh yes, all those years of Mo's "Golden Seeds" must have made you so spiritually strong. -- Anxiously waiting for you to become the Endtime witness and go die in Jerusalem...or just go die anywhere for that matter. (reply to this comment)

From Correction Saturday, March 06, 2004, 17:07 (Agree/Disagree?) Actually, it was 'Jesus' who quoted your poll - He's apparently the one who's able to read what we write here without having His faith affected.(reply to this comment)

from Banshee Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:38 (Agree/Disagree?) Cool…it’s kind of satisfying in a way to hear them scrambling and scurrying around trying to cover their ass and at the same time trying to hold on to their dwindling membership. It seems that a large percentage of their publications these days are having to be put towards their own defense, justification, and “clarifications” to their followers. Losing ground there, are you? Seems like trying to over-compensate, if you ask me. Wasn’t it even Berg who used to like to say, “It’s the hit dog that howls”? J One of her statements that particularly irked me was where she assumes to declare for the abused that…” We should focus on the good things from the past and not forever dwell on what went wrong or what mistakes were made. The good far outweighed the bad, even in the cases of those who did suffer from mistakes or problems. We've grown as a result of difficulties ....” How she has the gall to claim that for someone is beyond me. Until she has stepped into that place of victimization, she has NO RIGHT to make such a statement. How can she say for those that suffered that “the good far outweighed the bad”??!! Until she has a MULTITUDE (and by that I mean more than The Family’s standard 3 or 4 testimonies) of young people who will stand up and state for her that, despite these outrageous abuses—and, of course, these abuses would have to be comparable to some of the most severe ones suffered by us—that the good far outweighed the bad, and that they have now learned thus and so, and how much they’ve “grown as a result” of the abuses, she needs to SHUT HER MOUTH!!! What I find hilarious now—although, of course, I didn’t see it at all when I was in TF—is the simplistic tactics of manipulation and denial: “Just don’t read it!” “Just take our word for it—they’re all liars and exaggerators!” “They only want to turn you into an atheist!” But the real manipulation they use on their members is much more subtle. Did you all notice how whenever they talked about someone deciding to leave TF, or having thoughts about leaving, they keep using the words “weak,” “weakened,” or “weakening”? It’s all real subtle, but it sends the very clear message that one is bad, lesser of a person, and worthless to even think of leaving. Yet they claim not to do this! They claim that they support their members deciding on another way of life, and that they don’t look down on them or think lesser of them! Hello? Sigh, so many lies…so little time. (reply to this comment)

from itsxena2u Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:37 (Agree/Disagree?) sigh...... I just dont know what else to say. Jules, Nancy, porceleindoll and a few others have already clearly expressed my feelings and what I wanted to say in better ways I ever could. Its amazing though how TF will believe her (Zerby) over their own flesh and blood. My own mother wants nothing to do with this site, nor will she read anything I send her. It's really sad........ (reply to this comment)

from Nancy Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 10:56 (Agree/Disagree?) I take offense to her argument that because some individuals here are not "Christians," therefore, their accounts of abuse should be dismissed because Family culties should "consider the source." Well, Zerby, I am a Christian, not in your sense, though, and I proudly consider myself one of your strongest detractors. I smile to think there are only a few who are willing to do more to see you brought to justice. I think it is to my credit that I have so little time, but I willingly dedicate all I can to seeing that you and your evil cult are not successful in rewriting the sordid tale of your history and what you did to me, my siblings, my friends and an entire generation. I do believe in God, and I pray regularly. I have seen prayer answered in my life. My faith is very personal, so I do not talk about it a lot. Yet, it certainly does not make my accounts of abuse any more legitimate than someone who does not believe. Further, I take offense to your attempt to appropriate God to your evil ends. God no more currently supports or ever supported your wicked little cult than He supports Islamic Jihad, the Montana Militia, David Koresh, Jim Jones or any other individual or group that has committed acts of abuse and violence in the name of a religious cause. Frankly, in the words of a recent movie, "I think God tires of being called down on either side of the issue." This Zerby is a legal matter. You and your group, under your direction, conspired to exploit and abuse hundreds, if not thousands, of children on an international scale. Those children have grown up, and it is now time to answer for your crimes. Did you think you would go unnoticed? It's not persecution, honey; it's JUSTICE that has your number! You, my dear deluded cult leader, will go down in infamy when the truth is finally told to the masses as one of the worst and most abusive cults of all time. We're not talking about a few "mistakes or problems," either, my dear cultess. We are talking about an international conspiracy to exploit and abuse children. It happened, and now no matter what you do, you can never undo it. What lies ahead is only retribution. And as far as God goes, well, I talk to him, too, and he said to tell you to spoke misrepresenting him!!! No one appointed you his spokesperson. You have twisted and distorted His message to your own ends to achieve your own selfish and evil purposes, and in so doing, you have scarred the lives of an entire generation. What you see coming, deary, is your own demise and the floods of justice reaped upon your wicked head. God also said to remind you of the verse which you often overlook. What was it again God? Oh, that's right. He said it's something about a millstone!!! Now, politely, Zerby, stop misappropriating my God because he sure isn't your rag doll to manipulate as you please to your evil ends. Your trite argument that all of us who suffered under your watch and at your hand should be dismissed because we are not "Christians" won't work because you overlooked one of your biggest detractors, me, NANCY!!! What's that song, that song from the show Fame? Something about, "[Zerby] remember my name..." (reply to this comment)

From Andy Rooney Saturday, March 06, 2004, 18:10 (Agree/Disagree?) God spoke to me the other night, and said "Frankly, Zerby and Kelly strike me as wackos"(reply to this comment)

From Nancy Saturday, March 06, 2004, 11:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Fourth paragraph, first sentence: he said to tell you to stop* misrepresenting him!!!(reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 04:57 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't have a lot to complain about concerning my life in the Family, there are happy moments to be remembered, happy times. But what rankles me is this: The utter lack of honesty and the underlying deceptivity as well as twisting of words and situations by the group leaders to ensure that its members do not know the entire truth. It happened time and again in many instances, and that deceptivity is a major factor that led me to reject the group and my former life. In this the group succeeded: We were raised to be whole-hearted in all that we do and believe--so when the decision for rejection came, I had to do it wholeheartedly. Initially I didn't feel this antagonistic towards the group, but as I uncovered more and more dishonesty and deception, my feelings slowly turned to deep anger and rejection. She says that no group is perfect--I find this ironic that she again holds the Family up by the standards of society when it comes to the group's failures, and yet claims to be so much better than the world at large in every other way. If you choose a standard to live by, then live by it and don't use the standards of others to excuse your weaknesses. It is a little late now for me now, but perhaps a decade ago if the Family leadership had been more forthright with us, the dedicated members, about crimes, mistakes and legal situations (the Brit case to name one), admitting to the truth, and showing the steps being made to correct those errors, if the group had honestly come out and said "We really really messed up--and we honestly mean it--and this is what we're now doing to rectify the situation. All those who were hurt through our policies please contact us for an immediate investigation into your situation so we can legally deal with it and offer you the support you need to recover" then I may not feel quite so angry. It would mean that for the past decade honesty would be more prevalant, those who had been hurt in the earlier years of our childhood would have found apology and support as well as justice from the group, and the group at large would realise that these crimes did happen, but the criminals were exposed and dealt with through legal venues, not through a simple casting them out of the fellowship of the group, and into society to prey upon their members. Whenever I wonder if maybe I have been too severe in my rejection of the group and its teachings, and if my now growing desire to expose it and them is misdirected, I go back to the original reasons I rejected the group: Massive lies to its members Abuse to the harm and emotional damage of children I knew and loved Abuse and harm to persons in my immediate family Deception on a grand scale that led to "revolutions" within the group (for instance, informing us that Mene was a demon possessed child, beginning the instigation of Victor Camps, a major revolution in the group which resulted in extensive harm to young people, when in reality she was being abused both physically and sexually by her own grandfather) And when I remember those original reasons, I then remember the continuing lying that is happening to the Family at large, when I read GNs such as the one above and others that have been posted here and know that members are not being given an accurate portrayal of the whole story, that members are for the most part not diligently searching the truth, that members are being discouraged to see for themselves if this account is accurate, when I see the twisting of what Maria and her helpers are pouring out to the present Family and know that most (members) won't check into the origins of statements we have made about our past, it ignites the anger in me once again and re-establishes my desire and growing committment to see justice come about. (reply to this comment)

from seeker Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 00:43 (Agree/Disagree?) great analysis Jules -- bet the Zerb gets pissed off being dissed by a woman half her age! I can't access the full document -- link doesn't work? (reply to this comment)

from Benz Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 00:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Once again Jules, you have outdone yourself. I enjoyed reading this. It seems to be increasingly clear how desperate Zerbie is to distort the truth in order to keep the family’s doctrinal fantasies alive. – Zerb & Co will do ANYTHING to try and scream “persecution”, “the whole worlds against us and is our enemy, out to destroy us”, “we’re the david, they’re the goliath”. – Strikingly similar to the Branch Davidian’s mentality, everyone else is on the outside phobia/ paranoia, which Zerbs feeds to keep control of “Family” members by their own fears. Yet she admits we’re telling the truth, and calls us liars at the same time. I wish she would tell me what is so outrageous about wanting to be violent toward child abusers (is it that hard for her to understand). – Most people would be holding themselves back by their last threads of civility when everything within them would want to beat the child abuser to a pulp. – But Zerby turns this around and points the finger at us “threatening violence”. – She certainly had nothing against violence against the children in her care, all sorts of punishments and deprivations, not at all simple parenting but forced indoctrination of a belief system etc. But woooaah, turn it around, it doesn’t look so good from the angle facing you, does it Zerb, all of a sudden violence against evil is bad, because the evil is you. It was actually refreshingly amusing to see how she still uses mostly the same rhetoric as Berg did in his forceful orations back in the 60’s and 70’s, with the “if the shoe fits, wear it”, “slam the door on doubts”, “Boy, I’ll tell you”, etc. One obvious point of contradiction was this: “Maybe that sounds drastic to some, but we're in a war!” & “But thank the Lord that we in the Family have it a whole lot better than those in the world!”, & “102. Sadly, some of My children in the Family--both the first and the second generations--who have lived near-ideal lives with so many blessings from My hand, have chosen to walk away and forsake the life they once lived close by My side. … they led what many would call a "charmed life"--filled with love, joy, care, sincerity, trust, and truth. 103. But many have gone away and now look back on what was once a happy life--not a perfect one, but a happy one--and see everything so differently. Their perspective is warped and their view is tainted. In the place of many happy memories, there's only sadness and bitterness. In the place of the good, the bad is now all that is visible. But it's not that everything was bad or evil, or that their lives were filled with horrible memories. It arises from their perspective, the way their views have changed, and how they now see things differently as a result of the choices they have made." Maybe, Zerby hasn’t heard, but WW2, Vietnam & Korean wars have ended, and being in a War (real or imagined) is not considered “a happy life” to anyone, much less children who go through it. – You can’t possibly tell me that people walking around in a state of war are having “a happy life”. – But if you do believe it, then you SHOULD be in “the family”. (reply to this comment)

from Mydestinyismine Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 00:15 (Agree/Disagree?) In reply to paragraph 48. The Lord I stand before is not gonna be the same god they stand before. I'm Christian and since leaving have gained a good knowledge of the bible. TF's doctrines are twisted versions or parts of scriptures, all designed to suit their need. So what I'm gonna say to God is: I was born into a cult that taught me about a abusive, fearful, perverted God and I left with the damages, but since then have learned that God is not like that and being a Christian is not following a "false prophet" or pretending to be a missionary. And why does she really think that once someone leaves they still believe they're gonna face her god and think TF is the best place. Your reply to paragraph 49 was excellent. The sad thing is that her reason will be accepted in TF because they don't know better. What are your thoughts on the new MM(missionary member) status? (reply to this comment)

From loch Saturday, March 06, 2004, 22:56 (Agree/Disagree?) Seriously!? MM?? everybody is going to start loosing track of those stupid abreviations! "I'm a CM member (charter member, member) , no no, DO, no, was it TS? Oh no, MM, I'mean MF'er, er, er, ahhhh, I can't think for myself!!!"(reply to this comment)

From Mydestinyismine Sunday, March 07, 2004, 20:03 (Agree/Disagree?) MM is the new classification between CM and FM. To be CM you must now have at least 2 families(Can be SGA's) or 1 family and single parent instead of 1 family and alot of YA's and/or SGA's to complete the requirement. CM'ers will also have to stick to the charter's "spiritual guidelines" more so then they are now. MM is for those who can't make the CM requirement and for current FM who do alot of witnessing and abide more by TF "spirit". From what I hear alot of CM are now choosing to go FM. Either for their kids or situation. I was glad to hear about the ones who chose this for their kids. Unfortunately my parents are still bloody insane and seem willing to forsake their kids that don't want to be CM so they can remain CM. I believe this new classification starts in April and in June a 6 month probation/purge period.(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Saturday, March 06, 2004, 03:59 (Agree/Disagree?) Jules, do you have the details of the new "restructuring" of TF?(reply to this comment)

From Jedran Sunday, August 08, 2004, 07:42 (Agree/Disagree?) The Family is currently going through its "renewal" during which time its members are being ordered to regroup themselves in larger "homes" of at least 6 FDs over 18, although they are being encouraged to have at least 8-15 adult members in a home. It seems that the Family Leadership has decided that it can keep a closer hold on the Family's members by increasing the amount of pressure that can be brought to bear on its field members. As has been mentioned before they are now three classifications of Family members, Family Disciple, Missionary Member and Fellow Member. The Family also has had a new group for members of the general public who subscribe to their Activated Magazine called Activated Members (AM). (reply to this comment)

From kats Tuesday, August 31, 2004, 18:52 (Agree/Disagree?) there gonna get so confused they dont know up from down any longer(reply to this comment)