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Getting Out : Generations

Reply to E.M at 'myconclusion'

from retrospective - Friday, February 18, 2005
accessed 1632 times

Dear E.M.,
re: your posting at My Conclusion.

Since your letter on the 'my conclusion' website gives no opportunity to respond, I am hoping you check out this site and recognize yourself. I want to take issue with a few of your comments regarding your healthy 'Family' upbringing that you contrast to system and Hollywood influenced upbringings. Although you posted giving your real name, I am using initials only, out of respect for your mother. My intent is not to embarrass you or her, but to shed some perspective on your post. Again, I hope you recognize yourself.

I knew your family when you were a youngster. When I returned to the town we were both living in, I was lonely for family fellowship and would come by your home to visit with your mom. I was 20, single and no kids, you were about 3, and your mom and dad were probably about 30 with several kids by then. Your mom was very loving and kind and devoted to you kids and I enjoyed her company. It was from your mom that I got some great teaching ideas that I eventually used with my own children. But it was also at your house when I was visiting with your mom, that your dad drew me upstairs under the pretense to show me around, and proceeded to screw me in your motherís bed. Sounds pretty 'Hollywood' to me so far.

As you know, this 'sharing' was what the letters taught, and I hadn't had enough time on my own to sort out what I believed was right or wrong. So I submitted. I did however, after your father was done and left, continue my visit with your mom. And it wasn't hard then to see it was wrong, when I looked into her eyes. She was sad and wistful, but was keeping it together for you kids. She asked me if your dad had had sex with me, and I said yes. She must have known already, but she wanted to talk about it. She was unhappy, not with me but with the situation, but felt that it was her fault. What your mom told me was that your dad had told her that due to her having so many kids, (3 or 4 at the time) that she was 'so big' down there, and it just wasn't as pleasurable for him to have sex with her anymore. Nice, loving, supportive touch on his part. Funny enough, he went on to father another 5 or so kids with her, despite his lack of 'pleasure' in it.

So E.M., is this one of the wholesome family lessons and much better than Hollywood role models you were talking about? I tell ya it sure inspires warm loving family images to me. And hey... what if Iíd also become pregnant by your dad, how would my child have fared? Somehow I just can't picture the child support checks. Or how about any single sister out there who might not have walked away from their encounter with your dad as I did, used but at least not pregnant. How many stepsiblings do you have? Do you know or care? They certainly didn't rate any mention in your glowing family report. In fact, the truth sounds more like a Hollywood portrayal of a scumbag deadbeat dad than wonderful family values to me.

Anyways, I felt very bad at my contribution to your mothers sorrow, and on subsequent visits I avoided your dad's sneaky maneuvers to draw me upstairs. Even though at that time I still believed berg's doctrines, I did not believe in the least that it was ok to hurt your mother. Now the letters I believe told us that keeping your partner just for yourself was wrong, and to sacrifice your partner for the good of the group, but your mother was the least selfish and most sacrificial and loving and giving person Iíd ever met. She would have done anything for you kids. (Including denying her own desires for a 'normal' life and instead, staying in the Family to keep you all together). I can thank your dad's selfishness however, and your moms sadness at it, for helping me to start to think for myself and to question the family doctrines, and to not only leave physically, but to make that step of leaving in my heart.

You said in your 'my conclusion' post that Society gives no support when one tries to live by the standards of their religious beliefs. What exactly do you mean by that? Perhaps you don't know that this 'system' that you credit with zero support fed and clothed the lot of you via welfare, unemployment payments, and disability payments if I remember correctly. As well, your older brother (s)? were in receipt of and enjoying cutting-edge language immersion education that was only available to few at that time, at the public expense. So much for zero system support and living by faith.

You also described ex members as wanting to tear down your faith and lifestyle, without offering anything better. You think your values are better, I am happy with mine. To each his own. My values, however, don't require me to lie to coexist with them and life on the planet. They do not victimize or use anyone, and they are the creation of my own thought processes and conscience, not dictated to me along with instructions on how to disregard my own voice. I am free to modify my values when I get new information that contradicts past beliefs and I don't have to wait for a letter/update to tell me what my new values are. My hope for you E.M., is not that you abandon your values or beliefs, (the ones that you have truly come to on your own), or that you leave what you feel is your missionary calling, but that you open your eyes and ears and think for yourself. It wasn't all wonderful, and Iím sure it's still not.

By thinking and evaluating the past for yourself, and not just restating the party line, you can learn from it and guide your family along better paths, and truly be a good husband and father. And thinking for yourself just may save you and your wife some sorrow of your own should the 'sins of the father' come visiting. To your mom I say I am truly sorry if this is an additional embarrassment to you, but you were a great mom when I knew you and I really admired you. You really had a lot of work and little support, yet you were the love and light in that home. I know back then, that whatever you did was out of love for your kids, and not out of devotion to that madman Berg. I am sorry for my unwitting contribution to your sorrow at your husband's infidelities. You deserved much more.

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from Nancy
Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:57

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

http://www.myconclusion.com/archives/2005/01/19/angela-otoya-speaks-out/#more-30

Above is a link to another comment posted on mydelusion. This is Rose's (Cynthia Salazar) daughter. Rose was married to Philip Sloan/Slown of the child molestation fame. Angela states that she never saw abuse. Well, Angela was living in lala land. I lived with Angela and her abusive mother. I witnessed both Angela and her mother taking switches to little toddlers while they screamed. I saw the marks they left.

Further, Angela's mother was one of the most abusive and sadistic people I encountered in the cult. She is one of my abusers. Scary woman. I remember the faces she would make and the original things she would come up with to make our lives hell.

Daniel lived in the same "school" for awhile with us, as well. We all saw the "rotten apple" teenagers and children lined up every morning and marched out to hard labor. Angela's mother was intimately involved in the abuse those "rotten apples" received. She even tried a few of the tactics on me. She devised that I should plow this garden without gloves. It took days. It wasn't a real job. It was just to make me suffer, as nothing would grow in that sandy, rocky Mexican soil. The result was that I lost a lot of the skin on my hands. Angela's mother seemed pleased.

Angela, you may really believe you never saw abuse because in your mind what your mother did wasn't abuse. But, by any other sane person's standards, your mother is a child abusing sadist. And unless you are really deluded and brainwashed, which may be possible growing up with that woman as a mother, you're a liar.

Yes, folks, mark it down in history. Angela, you're a liar! I'll say it here, to your face and in a court of law. Your mother is one of the worst child abusers I have ever had the misfortune to encounter in my life. Her husband is an admitted sexual abuser, and you, you are a liar. No wonder you pose so happily for pictures with a woman who is also a sexual abuser.
(reply to this comment)

From tingling and warm
Tuesday, February 22, 2005, 14:21

(
Agree/Disagree?)


Oh god! Did you read the article? "Tingling and warm" feelings all down her ass coming from the hands of Angela Smith. My Ass! I guess these guys are really taking advantage of the no limit on alcohol rules.(reply to this comment

from moon beam
Monday, February 21, 2005 - 09:00

(Agree/Disagree?)
Thats a great reply, very good points.
What lengths they went to, to, dehumanise and detach us from our selves.
(reply to this comment)

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