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Getting Out : Leaving

Just watched the Ricky Video

from jolifam77 - Tuesday, April 04, 2006
accessed 2152 times

Wonderful. He is my fucking hero. I probably wouldn't actually kill anyone, because here's why, they're just human. But goddamn. My mother doesn't know, neither does my dad, have any idea how fucked I am. Thanks mom, thanks, you created a suicidal loser, and no help from you, not even braces. Thanks. Remember one thing guys out there; our lives were stolen from us, for an idea. An idea. Now you can all die because guess what, you never were alive. I was never actually alive growing up, and I don't feel alive now. There’s no comfort, it's all fake. Maybe the hardest thing is realizing this now. Maybe ordinary people realized this from an early age, and learned to live with this realization. But I didn't have that luxury.

They could say, well be glad you're alive but you know what, I wish sometimes I was never born. Yeah, what's the fucking use? I'm a goddamn tool. I'm not sure. Maybe my upbringing got me to realize that I'm a goddamn tool of nature, in whatever system I happen I happen to live in whether the system or the family. But you know what? The one thing that gives people solace, the opiate if you will, is company. I have no goddamn company, or wish to have company. I hate people. I fucking hate every fucking person I see. I drool over hot women, but I don't have and never learned the fucking social skills to talk to them.

I fuck hookers at every chance I get. That's my one fucking pleasure in life. What a life eh? Is it worth living? Fuck, of course not! Suicide was the honorable thing to do for Ricky, and saved him from a heck of a lot of misery that the average stupid idiot doesn't foresee because they’re so fucking sedated on company. Company blunts every pain. I have no company, therefore every pain is magnified. I should have never been born. My father was an antisocial shy guy with a horrible inferiority complex, I have no idea why, maybe he has a low IQ or something, he's very bad at fixing things, and maybe he doesn't feel like a real man. Anyway, he was a shepherd over one of those all-female homes so I guess he got reeeeeal lucky and got to marry my mommy, a young cute girl with her own problems. She divorced him immediately after having me.

My mom has this disease, that's socially debilitating somewhat; I won't say what it is. But it's probably why she didn't have a problem joining the family to live with all the other freaks. Needless to say I inherited her disease AND my father's sense of inferiority. Only in the family can such freaks be amassed in small units to produce some of the most fucked up kids you can get. I may be exaggerating but maybe I'm not.

Anyways, growing up in the family we were not conditioned for life in the system. See that's what makes it easy for every one else out there. They go through all the long training through their whole fucking lives! Going through the school system, having their parents support, getting braces. You know what I'm getting braces now. Just now. I'm 29 years old! My mother said about my crooked teeth: “Just push on them whenever you’re watching a video or sitting in a meeting.” Yeah right, lol. What a brainiac. They didn't fucking care, they didn't think we were going to make it past 20 anyway. Jesus was coming right? Did they really believe that? Jesus Christ! Anyways, so the hardest thing for us I think is adjusting. Adjusting and catching up on school, learning skills what have you. But those are the easy things, the hard thing is learning to relate to other people. I've given up.

My biggest hope is that I can attain a point of status where I have my own small office or maybe a big office where I can hide and work all day without having to interact with anybody. Now. If I had been born in the system would I be this antisocial? No. Because I would've never been born number one, because my parents would've never met and produced this bundle of genetic garbage called yours truly, and number two even if I had been born, you know, over 15 years of the school system, I would have at least made a couple friends, learned to like some hobby, learned to appreciate something.

But all my life I was told this life is just temporary, you should want to sacrifice, and die to yourself to help others, so that's what I did. Call me impressionable, but I really believed all that. Now I realize there's only one life, it's this one. And in my life the best years of my life were stolen from me, plain and simple. Because of those lies. Because of those lies I would memorize all day, and read mo letters. I would idealize about Jesus and the early days of the family and think about why it wasn't like that any more in the family. What was happening? I saw people in the family acting "selfish" protective of their own kids and whatnot, living for themselves, in single family or two family homes, more and more.

I interpreted this is as hypocrisy, but really what was happening was the family was normalizing, becoming more like the "system". I saw that as a bad thing. I figured well if the family is becoming like the system, well then I might as well go and be a real systemite or at least try to survive in the system, get an education, and try to survive on my own. So that's what I did, wonderful. Ok so here I am, I got what I wanted, my education. I got a car, I'm on my own. Great. But I'm only half a person. There's this great big void. The first 22 years of my life are an empty memory. I have no good memories from those years of sacrifice, or from the four years after that that I struggled to get good grades in college and catch up on learning and hell, learning how to learn. Things that ordinary kids had been spoon-fed from an early age, I had to cram into four years of college. So of course I didn't have time to socialize nor did I want to.

See I’ve still got this stigma in my mind about systemites. Hell, I wasn't even attracted to girls when I left. They were just systemites to me, just objects from which to obtain a donation through some smart conniving spiels about missionary work, and horseshit like that. I hated ordinary people, maybe because I had to confront them soooo much, all that witnessing, begging really. I hated people because most of them would make my life harder by not giving me a fucking donation. I'd call them goats or worse. I'd shake the dust of my feet literally when leaving a store of some bloke wouldn't give me a donation. I was good at selling tapes and posters, but it only made me to see people on the outside world as objects. That feeling lingers. Sigh.

So, Ricky was very matter of fact about his speech about suicide. He's been planning it all his life anyways. He's another guy who shouldn't have been born in the first place. The product of a forced situation, basically just like the unwanted child of a prostitute. That’s what he was. I was also born in a forced unnatural circumstance. That makes my whole life unnatural, and boy does it feel like it. Suicide at that point really isn't such a stretch.

You know a remarkable thing about Ricky's suicide? He purchased the gun and went through training for crying out loud with one purpose in mind: a successful suicide! You know that's very rare, I've done my little bit of research about what gun is best and stuff, and I happened upon research that said that most suicides by gun, occur by people who already have access to the gun, maybe it's their fathers, or they've always had it around the house, and then the idea popped in mind, like no doubt it does to every one at one time or another, they took the opportunity. Now I've thought about buying a gun to do it, just like Ricky. But now that the suicidal thoughts have waned, I'd actually just like to buy a gun for protection, because this fucking country is going down the drain with all the scum that's being left in, and liberals are letting all the criminals go scott free to kill as they please, so I'd like a little protection.

But I don't want to buy a gun now, because knowing what a suicidal mess I am, I KNOW that one I'll have a bad day one day, maybe it'll be a Friday night, when everyone's out at the bar and I'm alone at home again, doing nothing, listening to rock music, and maybe a couple beers, and I'll feel depressed because I'm such a loser, and I'll just naturally reach for the gun and blow my head off. That’s why I don't want to buy a gun, ironically for my own protection. But you know what, the minute I get sick, get some life threatening disease, or start to get noticeably aged, I will buy a gun and use it, believe me.

Thanks mom, thanks, you created a suicidal loser, and no help from you, not even braces. Thanks.

Reader's comments on this article

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from Sakabatou
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 01:21

I get you "jolifam77". Your story is surprisingly similar to mine, even the braces thing. My mom used to tell me the same shit. This is the way I see this whole religion shit.
I do believe it can work. But it needs to be done the right way, and dam it is hard. I believe its a matter of balance. Just take it easy and dont try to shove all that crap into a kid's brain, especially if you dont live by those rules, because that by itself can fuck you up a whole lot. If you cant teach by example then dont teach at all. The thing is that we were told that religion (Jesus, God, whatever) was all that we needed, BULLSHIT!! "God will guide you", "God will make everything work out" are you fucking kidding me? If God really cared for all of us that gaved him our best years would'nt be in this situation. I dont know how God works exactly but if he cant tell me what he wants from me in my face then dont expect me to be a loyal follower.
I believe that what really makes a person is the people he relates to every day. I believe that a father that talks to his kids about every day life is doing his job way better than the one who makes his kid memorize the hole bible alone in his room. And this leads me to the next point.
See, the main problem I find with ultra strict religion is ISOLATION. That is the key word in this whole thing. Isolation is very bad wether you're religious or not. And religion makes it easy for this to happen. All of those fucking rules. You cant do this, you cant do that, there is almost nothing you can do. Your friends have to be perfect, your girlfriend has to be an angel on earth, etc, etc. I am not saying that you should let your kids do whatever they want, but you gotta give em some space too. Beacause when you form this idea in your head of all the almost perfect people you should be around you end up finding out that you cant be with anyone. I realize now of all the friends that I left because I thought that they were a bad influence, but when I look back and think about it, I realize that they were'nt really bad people.
I had a best friend in highschool, as we grew up he got to be a more laid back person who did'nt care a whole lot about religion anymore, but me, I got even more into it. So at some point I started to avoid him more and more. Now I am alone and I would give anything to go back in time a hang out with my buddy all the time, but its too late.
So here I am, falling, but still fighting.
I'll be around.

(reply to this comment)
from demonatrix69
Monday, April 17, 2006 - 11:24

Set aside every comment, every rant, every angry soul out there; think about what he's been through and what you've been through.
I didn't know anything about The Family until this morning watching tv and got online and started looking around. I can't say that I was raised in a cult but being one of my father's "little soldiers" was bad enough. Was forced into all his beliefs and his raising and training.
No single person should endure what I have researched on this. Religious beliefs, forced sexual acts, torture, starvation, you name it.
No matter what anyBODY says, it's NOT going to change the past or the future, all this "set aside" bullshit. It's not like you can reboot and forget. It's forever burned into the back of your mind. All you can do is just keep moving, keep going through the everyday motions. If you crack, you crack. If you fall, you fall. Nothing said will change what has happened or will happen.
I feel for you even not believed.

(reply to this comment)
from Lance
Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 04:29

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
You’ve said some things in your article that I too have thought about from time to time after leaving the cult. I don’t think that you are in anyway inferior or different than anyone of your peers, colleagues, or event he women that you don’t have the nerve to talk to. What you are experiencing is, from my experience, a rush of anxiety. Probably not only stemmed by your convolution over the past, but by mental conditions and stresses that you are not completely aware that you had, or know how to deal with.
The blunt force of your confession is a sheer sign that you have come to face the ugly truths of the cult. Now it is time to learn to deal with those truths and to not let them overwhelm you. Don’t be ashamed to seek therapy, It’s helped me a lot and I’d encourage everyone who has gone through what we have to do the same.
(reply to this comment)
from exister99
Friday, April 07, 2006 - 09:54

Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Why am I not surprised that you work on The Hill?

Have you considered the possibility that you might be gay?

If I'm not mistaken it is a crime to transport a hand gun into DC. Careful about that.

I sleep better at night knowing that the government of my country is in capable and rational hands like yours.

Ever considered moving to Vegas?
(reply to this comment)

From vancouverxmember
Tuesday, April 18, 2006, 17:51


Kick a guy when he's down, way to go Tinkerbell, you must be a real stand up citizen. Forget about your gay tendencies for a sec and think about what if that was your son writing all that?

Yeah chew on that for a bit.(reply to this comment

From exister99
Wednesday, April 19, 2006, 08:17

Has it occured to any of you that the author of this article mostly just wants to express his rage and isn't necessarily looking for the big pity party that you all seem to be throwing for him? It's like some reflexive knee jerk reaction that you all have to start stroking and pampering people when they vent.

I happen to think rage is a wonderful thing. I think the author of this article will find a way to deal with and channel his rage. Another possibility is that it will consume and destroy him, but however it pans out rage this intense follows a fairly intransigent trajectory and I doubt a flood of cyber pity more befitting a toddler with soiled pants will do him much good. Speaking to him frankly as a fellow adult who recognizes the shit that we are forced to live in just might help him feel a bit of comaraderie and validation.(reply to this comment
From vixen
Wednesday, April 19, 2006, 08:33


I do like that about you, exister. You're just about the only person I know who's 'kicked me when I was down', and even though it did piss me off at those times, I was actually always aware that you were performing a much-needed service. As much as self-pity becomes me, I do like things to be put sharply into perspective once in a while.

Hmmm, not sure why I bothered to write this; Obviously I am having some sort of 'honesty pays' moment.(reply to this comment

From Haunted
Wednesday, April 19, 2006, 12:14


Don't try to run,

Don't try to hide,

Don't cover up your feelings inside.....

Nothing is solved by running away.

Let's face the facts:

Honesty pays!

Whoo Hoo!!!! - - - - having a drunken moment where I sing annoying songs out loud!!!! AHHHHHHH!!!!(reply to this comment

Wednesday, April 19, 2006, 15:51

The Haunted becomes the Haunter! I hate that song, aka weapon of mass cowersion (spelling intentional).(reply to this comment
From Oh man
Wednesday, April 19, 2006, 00:34

Don't light the fuse on his tampon.(reply to this comment
From jasper_raven
Tuesday, April 18, 2006, 16:53


Oh god man...

If I knew you or where you lived I would come out there a kick the shit out of you. I mean what an ignorant piss ant remark. Have you considered the possiblity that you might be gay? Cause it sounds to me like you're looking to this guy for some sort of date or something. Anyways... I think you're a pathetic loser with nothing better to do than to harp on people for no other reason than that it gives some sort of sick meaning to your otherwise pathetic homosexual life. Cheers! (reply to this comment

From exister99
Wednesday, April 19, 2006, 08:07

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
No, I am not a god, but thanks for the compliment.

Internet death threats are always so entertaining, I have relished in laughing them off ever since I first ventured into cyberspace. They add such an entertaining dimension to the chaotic misguided machismo that pervades our modern society.

You should note that my comment is really only offensive to homophobes. To those of us who are tolerant it is actually a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Kind of like suggesting to someone being driven mad by their red drapes that they should consider buying blue ones. Judging by the very reasonable way in which the author of this article responded to my comment it seems he is much more even keeled than all of the hate mongering flamesters who have come to his defense.(reply to this comment
From jolifam77
Friday, April 07, 2006, 13:43


Nope, not gay, just fucked up. think Rivers Cuomo. There's a guy who could've been born in the family.

cheers(reply to this comment

From jack420
Tuesday, April 11, 2006, 14:18


So you have a shorter left leg? Now I get all the brace references.(reply to this comment

From jolifam77
Tuesday, April 11, 2006, 20:01

braces in my teeth wise guy. and Rivers had 'em too--in his teeth AND legs at age 29-30ish.(reply to this comment
from loch
Friday, April 07, 2006 - 08:14

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Hang in there k? We all feel like rejects for a while, maybe it's something that will never fully go away, but you'll find your place. Your people are out there.

You can do this life thing!
(reply to this comment)

from Tasha
Friday, April 07, 2006 - 06:04

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I've thought about your article heaps since reading it last night, and the thing that I want to tell you is that every life has immesurable value. There's no such thing as a life that wasn't meant to be.

My son started out as a serious mistake, he was never planned for or even wanted before he was born. But what he is now is a wonderful, lively, intelligent little individual with a smile and laugh that truly give joy, and a curiousity about life like you've never seen. Every day is a wonder to him, and it's such an honour to me to be sharing it with him. I just look at him worshipfully, that he could waltz uninvited into my life, turn it around, give me a reason to live and to find the child within.

When I think of his future, I think that whatever he does he will be great at it and enjoy it thoroughly. I want to give him every advantage it is in my power to give, and most importantly to give him faith in himself.

I don't believe that how you started life has to define who you are. Whatever your parents issues at the time of your birth, whether you were planned for or not, that's their problem. That's their lives possibly messed up, it doesn't have to be yours. You are a unique soul, you have a mind and a heart of your own which is independant of the environment you were raised in. Find that real you. I think the problem you're having with girls, is you don't have anything to offer them because you're not whole inside. First you have to discover who you truly are, not as defined by your past or your experiences or reactions to them. As defined my your inner longings, your deepest core desires. You have to be you, the real true you, before you can truly see into another person and find the real inner them. Women can sense these things. They know a man who is at one with himself.

My advice- go somewhere beautiful. Forget about girls, forget about everything for a little while. Go find a beach or a mountain, close your eyes, and let the beauty heal you. Start a diary, maybe. Listen to yourself. And find a good online friend to exchange letters with. That will probably be easier than face-to-face as your self esteem is at such a low point. Once you start loving yourself and believing in yourself, and living in a way that fulfills your true potential, the other stuff like friends, social skills, and girls will just fall into place.
(reply to this comment)
From vixen
Friday, April 07, 2006, 06:50

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Very wise words.(reply to this comment

from Some guy who knows
Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 23:28

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

No one can know the burdens you bear, the depths to which your pain can reach, the anger that burns you alive. But you touch the lives of everyone you meet, enrich the lives of everyone you befriend, and though you may not see it at times, you are an integral part of more lives than you could imagine. You are woven into the fabric of the lives of everyone you know. When it is not enough to carry on for yourself, try; just try, for those who love you.
(reply to this comment)

from gaijin
Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 21:42

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I have never been in the Family so feel free to dismiss my comment. But ...

From all that I have read about the Family and its history and literature, anyone who was born in that and spent their childhoods in it, then got out and got an education and a job etc is no loser. You are definitely no loser! If anything, you are heroic. Any "systemite" who knows a little about the Family would think people like you are amazing for overcoming your background. Most people I know think they had it rough in their families and schools but have no idea of what people like you have gone through.

There are a lot of good people in the world, and some of the hot chicks you drool over would probably be more than happy than talk with you. I speak as an ugly guy who probably IS a loser, but I ended up MARRYING a hot chick. Hang in there.
(reply to this comment)
From gaijin
Friday, April 07, 2006, 02:55

that should have been " to talk with you" not "than talk".

(reply to this comment
from Phoenixkidd
Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:34

Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Jolifam, when I read the first part of your article I imagined that you had recently left, and were in the discouragement hopelessness phase that finally hits you after a year of being out of the cult. However, later I learned you were the same age as me and had also gotten an education. I believe you really need to take a deeper look at your innermost psyche, what you want, and honestly look at what you can achieve. I think you should put your psychology classes to good use, to help you maintain good mental health--And I mean this in the most sincere way. Your past will never change, hell your parents may never change, and your physical attraction level may never change--But what you can change, even on just a tiny scale, is your everyday routine and the way you communicate..I know women love a good communicator and perhaps your going after the wrong one's altogether. For me personally I have found that being somewhat friendly in the workplace, making contact with that hard personality, going to the gym, and working like hell (65 hours a week) has helped me maintain some level of sanity. Ricky was a victim in my eyes, not a hero--He took a life for christ sake!! What you need to do is find out what turns you on...what gives you that emotion to keep on going through life...Without killing someone or hurting yourself. I think the biggest dissapointment to those kids that leave is that we are not special--For years it was ingrained in me that we were chosen through supreme ordinance to be the wonder generation! Then I realize we don't have special talents, we don't have capital and we don't have "normal" social skills--We are nothing and that everything is just a matter of circumstance not some miracle from God! I have commited my life to a life of boredom, and just another of the vast array of earthlinks trying to eek out an existence. But I continue.....
(reply to this comment)
From Gypsy
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 16:34


Im not so sure i agree on your conclusion of "eeking out an existence". True, life may be a bitch, and yes, i think we all have reached that point in our lives that we wish we could just pull the trigger, but to me life is mainly about thriving, overcoming those things we fear so much, proving to ourselves, and others, that we are capable, that we do have it in us, that inspite of our less than desirable upbringing, inspite of that virus that eats away at our brains day after fucking day, we will accomplish our dreams!

We didnt have a choice about our past, (I, for one, would give anything to change it.. or have it erased all together) but we do have a choice now how to determine our future! We will not give them the pleasure of knowing that they fucked up our lives too. How many more of us have to sacrifice our lives just so they could have the pleasure of saying "It was to hard for him to "move on"? Fucke'm!

(reply to this comment

From happy helper
Thursday, April 20, 2006, 20:32

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
Hey, if you're not so keen on "eeking out an existence," you could research jobs that don't bring you into so much contact with mice.(reply to this comment
From jolifam77
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 21:58

People spare me the optimism. Is that something you learned in the Family? It seems this sites theme is "forget the past" and move on, "you can live your dream" blah blah blah--Also BS you learned in the Family. People when are you going to learn to just let it out, vent it out, and admit that we are eternally fucked, we have no past, and therefore we have no real future. You can try to lie to yourself and pretend that everything's okay and "we shall overcome" all you want, but I think that's counterproductive. The "virus" is still there as you say. You might as well just accept the fact that you are a handicapp--for life! Brother Sun's son's comment there about the "boring" life was the best thing I've heard so far on this site. We are fucked. Get that through your thick skull. Ricky knew it. I know it. I'll never do what he did, at least not the murder part. But aside from that part, everything he said in his final video to us all, was right on. God rest his soul.(reply to this comment
From the person
Friday, April 21, 2006, 15:44

For a start you might want to not address everyone as we. You may be eternally fucked but that doesn't mean everyone who left the group is. You don't love yourself enough is the problem. Even the fact that you managed to get out and get yourself an education should be enough to make you proud of yourself. How is anyone supposed to like someone who hates himself? The secret to happiness is first & foremost to be in love with yourself, and if you aren't, find something to do that will make you love yourself. Even if it means operating your teeth....(reply to this comment
From Big Sister
Saturday, April 15, 2006, 13:18

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
No way this site's theme is forget-the-past-and-move-on. More like: deal with the past, and keep movin' on. Which really turns out to be, dealwithpast, moveonabit, dealwithpast, moveoneabit, etc. Just like a theme for everybody who's had a horrible childhood and is determined to have a good rest of their life.

Seems to me you are using this site for one of the purposes it was created for - ranting about your frustration and despair and arguing with those who try to talk you out of it. I have always been struck by how much the Family fears anger. Fears its power to pose real questions, effect change, motivate action. I think the Family keeps people locked in by denying them access to anger, disappointment, frustration, et al. Don't you think that's what all this fear of the Bogey Man (opps, I mean the Devil) is all about?

We are all fucked, you say. Yeah, ok so maybe you're right. Does that "fact" really make any difference to anything? (reply to this comment
From exister99
Friday, April 14, 2006, 06:26

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
And what's with your propensity for addressing your audience as "people?" What is that, something you learned in a fucking Mo letter or something?(reply to this comment
From Lance
Friday, April 14, 2006, 22:47

No a MO letter would be: "Hey kids!"(reply to this comment
From jolifam77
Saturday, April 15, 2006, 09:49

More like 'folks' or 'you' as most of them were given as a speech to Maria or another person, rarely an audience. (reply to this comment
From m&m
Friday, April 14, 2006, 22:57

Hey kids, do you like Primus? Do you wanna see me stick Nine Inch Nails through each one of my eyelids?(reply to this comment
From tuneman7
Friday, April 14, 2006, 16:11


Hi exister,

Give me a call or drop me a line sometime if you get a chance.

All the best,

Don(reply to this comment

From vixen
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 22:40

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I can relate to how you're feeling. I know how infuriating it can be to have people try to tell you positive, life-affirming stuff that just sounds empty, when they're not stuck inside your head and they have no clue what you contend with from day to day. It's why I didn't comment on your article when it first came up. But what I try to do is look at it like this: If you truly were completely emotionally and psychologically spent and there was absolutely no hope left in you, you would not still be here. Obviously, on some level, you do still want to be alive. And, as such, it makes sense to seek out meaning in the simple joys and pleasures of life, a hobby or some passion that nourishes you and affords you a temporary rest from the pain you feel. There is nothing at all wrong about trying to find 'distractions' to help you cope with life. I know it can feel like it's a pretty useless endeavour, and I get pissed off about it too sometimes, but hey, for some of us, that's life, and as much as I dislike that fact, I have found peace with it.

I am tired, it's very early in the morning, so forgive me if I am unable to convey this point with enough clarity, but I think you will understand: For me (and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most, if not all, others) being suicidal is not about not wanting to live, it is about something else entirely. I want relief, quiet, blackness, deep sleep. It's not about dying but about rest. Now, if you are not yet ready to be without a chance at life, then try to muster up the strength to face it once again, even in the knowledge that nothing will ever change on any fundamental level. It is worth it. I hope you will some way of laying your demons to rest, as far as is possible. If you ever need someone to vent to, you can email me through my profile.(reply to this comment

From Ah yes...
Monday, April 17, 2006, 09:46

Black velvet dreams. If I were just able to find enough of that relief, quiet, blackness, deep sleep, I would be fine for periods in between. May be I'd even be quite content. But life's demands are not structured for needs like ours, and each time my body/brain goes on strike for some black velvet time, I risk losing any decent thing to wake back up to.(reply to this comment
From vixen
Monday, April 17, 2006, 09:58


I recently came upon what used to be one of my favourite poems, particularly during a very difficult period where I suffered from severe clinical depression. It seems terribly self-indulgent now that I don't feel that way anymore. Anyway, here it is. I think it's the closest I've come to seeing my state of mind at the time expressed in the written word (I do still experience it from time to time, but thankfully the worst, it seems, has passed):


No, now I wish the sunshine would stop.
and the white shining houses, and the gay red flowers on
the balconies
and the bluish mountains beyond, would be crushed out
between two valves of darkness;
the darkness falling, the darkness rising, with muffled
obliterating everything.

I wish that whatever props up the walls of light
would fall, and darkness would come hurling heavily down,
and it would be thick black dark for ever.
Not sleep, which is grey with dreams,
nor death, which quivers with birth,
but heavy, sealing darkness, silence, all immovable.

What is sleep?
It goes over me, like a shadow over a hill,
but it does not alter me, nor help me.
And death would ache still, I am sure;
it would be lambent, uneasy.
I wish it would be completely dark everywhere,
inside me, and out, heavily dark

D. H. Lawrence

(reply to this comment

From jolifam77
Monday, April 17, 2006, 10:20


fantasizing about being dead? you guys are sick. :)(reply to this comment

From vixen
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 22:45


Sigh, I told you I am tired... that should say 'I hope you will *find* some way...'.(reply to this comment

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