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Getting Out : Leaving

How many went from the "Lord's Army" to the real deal?

from Baxter - Thursday, February 26, 2004
accessed 2690 times

I'm just curious to see how many of you lot did what I did, and went into the military?

I left in '97, after being threatened with partial excommunication for administering a black eye. I didn't know what else I really wanted to do, so I joined the Army.

Anyway, I just got out after 5 years, and I hear a lot of guys did the same thing. I'm curious to know what your experiences were, and if they were at all similar. I mean, for instance, did any of you find it easier to submit to shouting instructors, overt humiliation, physical and emotional brutality, etc. than the other recruits? Did you find it easier to take orders? And (this is the question I'm most interested in) did you suddenly find you had an awesome amount of untapped aggression that you never knew was there? I answer yes to all of the above.

Also, have any of you found it strangely easy to outwit and/or out talk your superiors? If any of the above sounds familiar to you, please comment.

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from NoPhuchinWhey
Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 01:33

Good fukkin post!!

Its nice to find a bunch of other people who were XFam & Military.

I did 2 tours in Iraq & one as a contractor, nothing special just an over glorified Heavy Equip. Operator running MCADS(Mine Clearing Armored Dozers) Saw some crazy shit, went through boot camp, Always had a problem with authority, hated authority, got in trouble & lost some rank telling a butter bar 1LT to "go fuk himself", but other then that, was a good experience, did learn a lot about myself, had a backbone for once, got in damn good shape, was banging hot bitches for once, ooozed with SELF CONFIDENCE!!

But then got injured, been out for awhile now, still want to be in & belong to something, I keep working one shitty job after another.

I get a lousy $500 a month for being disabled, now got PTSD added to my disability rating we will see what else, for my back & shoulder.

Have a bad perception of working out/physical fitness, I need to work out with other people...haha

-Got to see some of the world though, that was good.

-I want to do more though, wish I had the brains to be all GUNG HO SPECIAL FORCES, genetics fucked me on that one, damn learning disabilities.

-So now I have regrets,dead friends, and fucked up childhood in cult to remember. But hey could always be worse, I constantly get on myself for becoming a fukkin pussy. Used to be all hardcore now, I sit here bitching and disabled.

-depressed , tried going to college, dropped out 3x, worked as a contractor in IRaq, was good money, but miserable, playing the lotto with your life, survivors guilt.

-Can't figure out what to do with my life.
(reply to this comment)
from Machiavellian
Monday, January 01, 2007 - 20:23


I have to agree with you on all of your points. allthough i joined the army out of boredom rather than some patriotic duty. i wanted to know who i really was inside, and i needed a real challenge to bring it out of me. unfortunately infantry basic training at Ft Benning wasnt hard enough to really challenge me, so i guess i can thank the family for abusing me enough so that i could take the hardest basic training course the army has in stride. as far as the internal agression and anger... well thats something im still learning to control, a real pandora's box. i did find it a natural transition to go to the military. i think its a great way for members wanting to get out to make a clean break, and for the first time help them find out more about themselfs and the american life.
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from DevilDogX
Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 02:41

1st of all I want to give a shout out to any other marines who might visit this site
I found that life in the family was quite helpful in preparing me for Marine boot camp. I was able to survive getting yeld at and all the other shit real well!

(reply to this comment)
From geo
Sunday, November 07, 2004, 08:34

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
oh yey for you, you "survived" getting yelled at and all the same basic training female marines also go through.
do you want a cookie now?(reply to this comment
From DevilDogX
Tuesday, November 09, 2004, 18:32

Sure if you've got a cookie "geo" I'll take it.. didn't know this site had turned to a fucking baked sale.
It appears you didn't get the point of my comment.. i wuzn't trying to make myself look bad-ass. the main article that was posted asked for people who found being in the fam made it easier for them in boot camp I personally found that it did... do you have a problem with that???
i give a thumbs up to those female Marines that made it through boot camp.. I know and work with alot of them. Oh and by the way their physical fitness requirements are easier so it's not exactly the "same" either. Next time doing your research would be nice!! Thankx!!

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from Meathead
Friday, October 01, 2004 - 02:02

My Bro is going to the R.O.T.C. and i am going for Law Enforcement(i think my parents are scared that i might get it in my head to start doing a check on TF, which i am gonna do, and start up sum investigations). i am tired of stupid fucks (crimanals more like it) being able to try to push us around.
(reply to this comment)
From Baxter
Friday, October 01, 2004, 05:25


That should be fun!

Everyone I know who had anything to do with the OTC has warned me to stay away from it. Dunno though, see how it turns out!(reply to this comment

from pharmaboy
Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 03:08


Shit, I've been in the Italian army 6 months now, and all I cna say is no amount of sleepless nights and partying will mess your head up like the army, I've been going though serious self-confidence issues, as well as feeling worthless, most of which stems from us soldiers being treated like littles kids and because in the army there is fuckall to do all day long here.

I can agree with the below poster in saying that the army is full of cowards and little people. I've never had to deal with so much immaturity and pettyness before, and it's not just the soldiers, sometimes the officers are worse. If you don't enter the status quo, many here take it personally, and sometimes I can't blame them: 100 boys couped up in ugly, rundown barracks who have nothing to do but get on each others nerves. They're jealous that I got promoted corporal so quickly, they prefer to believe that I've got "friends in high places", to the effort put in attaining that position. I've never been got at responding to petty spats and insults, especially in a language which is not my native togune. Keeping quiet only prompts more, as if it's some kind of test of my limit. I respond with what I do better than talking, with my fists, I usually win. I hate it here, I'll do something extreme soon, if only to break this cloud which has settled on my mind since coming here, I just feel dumb and sleepy.

If only I could do some work: hard, physical work.Work here consists of sitting on a stool for 24 hours, which is supposed to be guard duty. You go from sitting on your ass in one place to sitting on your ass in another place.

Officials hide behind the stars on their chest I've already tried challenging a few officers to a fight, dumb fucks won't show up or they give me written warnings, such a bunch of worthless, low-class southerners I've never seen before, and to think my dad works and pays taxes for these guys salaries is beyond me.

And the blankness of it all is beyond me, the stupidity is suffocating, I've got to do something about this soon...

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From pharmaboy
Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 05:58

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Oops, wrote that one fast and noticed all the errors later.

Being around people who find it shocking that I'm not a catholic, or that I don't give a shit about the latest cell phone or the latest album of some singer from Naples is a bit like cult life, where every difference that goes beyond a cookie-cutter shape existence is frouned only makes want to fuck with their heads more.

All that to say there is nothing more sickening than a small-minded man intoxicated with his own importance, and drunk on his bloated ego. I find the more you embrace a truly open-minded, cosmopolitan thought and outlook in life, the less room there is for arrogance at the expense of others, and you realize how futile it is to pass value judgements on anything. It all becomes a matter of personal preference.

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From dan
Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 05:31


don't go too far out there in an atempt to be different. the group can get ugly. i would recomend that you find something you can do well and specilize in that. in lillitary units there is alway a piece of equipment or radio that no one wants ot handle. takethat task on and be the subject matter expert. fightinf officers never helps. remember you want to do your time and get out. those people top whom you show ne respect now may be the ones that you can use in business later in life. good old boys is how the world is run.

the one subject i still stay away from is religion. people can not ever understand the way we look at it. don't try and help them they are just fine. not everyone wants to know what is realy out there. some are just happy to take what they have been tought and live with it. they can become life long enemies if pushed on such a silly subject.

think about a way that the army can make mony for you when you get out. find that thing that crosses over into civilian life. work out and get better with your fists. if you are going to live by them you can never bee good enough. train. (reply to this comment

From Vicky
Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 03:25

Pharmaboy, I find you extremely interesting.(reply to this comment
From Vicky
Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 04:04


Let me qualify the above so that my impulsive comment isn't misinterpreted:

I have found many of the things you've written on this site very interesting, particularly where you've discussed depression and other such issues. I find your thought processes interesting and I like the way you express yourself. I think you've got a wise head on your shoulders and a good idea of who you are and what you want out of life.

That's what I meant.(reply to this comment

from beaten down
Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 12:08


No one can hate like a brother. my brothers werer the Teams. when i quit them they took it as an insult to all that they live for. it is hard for a man who has given twenty years to a cuase to hear that i didn't give to shits for his cause and left with out a pause.

i'm in a war zone and bumped into guys from my old unit. i didn't know any of them and they figured i was lieing about it. They found it easier to believe that i was lieing than that i was telling the truth and just didn't want to be like them anymore. So i was a lier and they caught him. never before have i had a beating like that. the back of my head is a mass of welts.

tough guys who had no intention of fighting me one on one. far from that they bum rushed me and hit from behind and put the boots to me when they got me down. more than anything is reminded me why i left. for all the toughness that they feel they have; they are cowerds and only attack in mass when victory is assured. If you want to when you use superior numbers and the element of surprise.

The guy in charge knew who i was and let it happen anyway. it is an interesting perdicament. what to do now? kill'm? they're on the same side in this war and to eleminate thm would do my nation no good. when the pack starts to bay, there is no holding it back. if i am lucky: i may get the chance to see them again man to man. if that were the case i could get the rage out of me. untill then you have to stash it away as fuel for the soul in times when rage is required.

The smallness of men never ceases to amaze me. we are a petty people, so insecure that we have to defend what we are to the destruction of others. I know now that they look opon me as traitor who has spit on all that they hold dear. while those were not my sentaments before; I now turn compleatly away from all that they stand for and prepare myself for the next battle. they were granted the curtacy of breathren in that weapins were not used against them. breathren they are no more.
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From Baxter
Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 16:21

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

If this is who i think it is, I think the dormant philosopher inside of every soldier is coming out of you, mate.

This, I believe, is the most painful aspect about who and what we are; for us, there can never be true affiliations. We have been at least partially immunised to the possibility of blindly following any ideology or political or social institution. Many of us seem to have gone in search of a supplement for what we had believed, possibly in much the same way the other gullible idiots we served alongside were searching for their own purpose. But whereas they had the benefit of being both blind and ignorant, we were unknowingly travelling charted waters. No matter how hard we try, we can never become the wholly willing and obedient, unthinking soldiers of anyone's cause, under whatever banner we march. We are almost subconsciously conditioned to react adversely to such foolishness, though we ourselves were perhaps too foolish to realise it.

Someone asked me the other day what I had to be doing in the forces, and I unthinkingly gave them an answer that somehow managed to answer my own queries, possibly better than I answered hers. I told her that I had gone looking for heroes. It's strange that we spent our whole childhoods feading on the artificiated mythology of an organisation whose purpose was to exploit us, and yet when it's fallacy became visible to us, we simply sought out a different, and perhaps better popularised model.

As far as revenge, I say be prudent. Remember that prudence is no less potentially an instrument of ruthlessness than is brutality.

Again, if this is who I think it is, I must say that you are becoming rapidly more interesting. I think I shall e-mail you at some point. we must talk.

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From it's me
Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 05:20


The sight of my heroes acting so cowardly in their pack rage against something that was not in their sphere of understanding was the hardest bit about that. (inhale) How do you explain to a one dimensional person that you saw where his life is, where you were heading , and could not muster the energy to trudge on for twenty years?

To accomplish a task or achieve victory in a realm I thought was impossible; that was my goal. Everyone said I could never make it. It was the challenge of arduous training that inspired me to exert myself to new levels. Once I got there, I saw that they were ordinary. Nothing super or special at all. A lot of alcoholics. men who cheated on their spouses. bad fathers. Nothing to emulate. Not great men or very smart men.

I could look at my life and see the way it would go over the next 20 years. I found that was boring beyond comprehension. You are so right about it being "charted waters". There is no mystery to the military career. The one thing that always baffles me is how easily they bite and swallow all the propaganda thrown their way. They believe the drivel that is put out. I had a guy telling me a few nights ago that they were the biggest and the baldest thing around and I had better remember that in the future. Stand aside because we're coming thru. That is a boot camp cadence and if you chant it long enough you can believe it as you gang up 5 on 1.

The whole thing has been realy good for me; in that it has helped me burn my bridges. While I could still go back, I now can look back and see that I was a part of that. I even perpetuated it. I never got in the gang bangs but I was in an environment that condoned such behavior.

We need to get together and get pissed and tell war stories, mate. All my drinking buddies out here are brits. I have more in common with them as they are more internationally minded. If you think your military is bad most Americans can't even find you on the map. While I hate all cultures with equal complacency, I was infuriated by peers talking about going out and killing zipper heads. Or chinks or gooks. I kept telling them that gooks were in Vietnam and we were shooting sand niggers or camel jockeys. If you don't know the difference form a Jap and a chink you have no right to shoot at them.

Politically correct is not how I would define myself. But I'm working on it

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From it's me
Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 05:03


the sight of my heros acting so cowerdly in their pack rage against something that was not in the sphere of understanding was the hardest bit about that. how do explain to a one dimentional person that you saw where his life is and where you were heading and could not muster the energy to trudge on for twenty years?

To acomplish a task or achieve victory in a realm you thought was imposible that was my goal. everyone said i could never make it. it was the chalenge of an ardous training that inspired me to exert myself to new levels. once i got there i saw that they were ordinary. nothing super or special at all. a lot of alcholics and men who cheated on their spouses. nothing to want to emulate. not great men or very smart men.

I could look at my life and see the way it would go over the next 20 years. i found thta that was boreing beyond comprehention. you are so right about it being charted waters. there is no mystery to the millitary career. the one thing that always bafles me is how easaly they bite and swallow all the propaganda thown their way. they believe the dripple that is put out. i had guy telling me a few nights ago that they were the biggest and the badest thing around and i had better remember that in the future. stand aside cuase we're coming thru. that is a boot camp cadence and if you chant it long enough you can believe it as you gang up 5 on 1.

the whole thing has bee nrealy good for me in that it has helped me burn my bridges. while i could still go back i now can look back and see that i was part of that. i even perpetuated it. i never got in the gang bangs but i was in an inviorment that condoned such behavior. (reply to this comment

From jez
Sunday, July 18, 2004, 13:14


Please don't do anything stupid!(reply to this comment

From almost went
Sunday, July 18, 2004, 20:45


The month before 9/11 I was a hair away from OCS, as with most of us I cleaned out the PFT, filled out the forms and accepted, just didn't have my moms' birthplace to verify and that put my app on hold -- right before 911, at which point I knew that it'd be a long time till I could finish my last year of college.

Well, college is done, and like many I question why we're there, why 900 troops had to die for Bush's weapons companies to make their mint & Bush's oil company cronies to get rich. I guess it's scary that were I to have not written the wrong date on a piece of paper, I'd likely be out there, fighting a war I didn't agree with -- but I'd have signed and trained and like any honorable individual I would do what I had signed up for to the best of my ability.

With all the Abu Garib controversy gone, I've started wondering whether I would've stopped that stuff if I had filled the paper correctly and gone there. Hey, I' m now quite antiwar, but you have idealistic 19-yr-olds out to kill the bad people and help the good people, and what can you do when you finally imprison some guy who killed yr buddy? Yeah we can get into the morality of it, but geez, you go from home where murder is wrong to a place where yr supposed to start killing people who don't look like paper targets? Sometimes I'm really disgusted with all the people who condemn the abuse in the prisons, not because it wasn't bad to happen, but I would put money on it that a majority of the protesters put in a similar situation wouldve done the same thing -- went along with it or tried to ignore it -- save your morality speech, youre just too scared to ask yourself the difficult questions; we all crack at some point.

I know I'm not making much sense, but I just figured out that "the teams" spoken of earlier is the Seal Team (I'm guessing Team 2, since Team 6 is the counter-terror or something like that), kind of a small group aren't they? So if U quit and are now in Iraq, I guess you're a contractor making 10X what they're making. You may not see this, but the fact that you went back into combat makes it look like you're a money-grubber; you didn't quit because you were anti-war or something, you just want to make more money than you could as a Seal, but doing less than you did in the teams.

So yeah, they kicked your ass, but I guess the teams gave you the training which qualified you to become a contractor and make 10X the amount that troops out there are making. Why isn't it a fair trade?(reply to this comment

From geo
Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 18:34

I think thats a misconception about the abuses in iraq, that they where somehow done in retaliation etc. If you look at the people involved theyre all soft skills. Meaning none of them where infantry or even combat arms involved in the fighting in Iraq. Actually many of them where MP reservists, correctional officers and or police in the civilian sector so they where used to treating people like shit.
My last unit the battalion had 17 KIA's in iraq, people i knew got killed there does that mean im going to get a rise out of making people crawl around naked with a leash on-fuck no. I hope all the soldiers involved in that get crushed for what they did and I dont think you'll find many people in the army who sympathize with them.
On the other hand i've probably been abused many times worse in army resistance and pow schools then the prisoners at abu, and likely even interagated by some of the same contractors that were working there. Point being that what went on there was probably blown a bit out of proportion by the media, still that isnt excusable.
In modern warfare but especially in unconvensional warfare rapport is everything, were always trying to win the hearts and minds of the indigenous people and i think anyone whos been in the military knows how far the US goes to try and keep the moral high ground, i think civilians would be surprised at how restrictive our rules of engagement usually are. I think theyd also be surprised how much the laws of warfare and human rights are stressed in military education and doctrine and how important it is that we abide by those rules even though the people were fighting never do.
"In peace operations... perception is reality"
But if you are going to abuse naked prisoners, dont be stupid and take pictures of it.(reply to this comment
From B D
Tuesday, July 20, 2004, 02:07


anti war or not. nothing you of i do will change the course of this one. i can save a lot of american lives by doing a job well that, if not for me, some 19 yr old kid would have to do.

as for being thankfull for the training i received, i am. i learned skills that will last a life time. (reply to this comment

from Zed
Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:24

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I joined the Army Infantry in August of 2000. I would be getting out this July if I weren't stop-lossed and in iraq. Basic training was pretty easy, yeah we got smoked all the time, and there were plenty of fights, and every now and then a drill sergeant would get creative and make us bivouac in the pt field for a week or something. But all that was to be expected. I did find the "chain-of-command" thing to be a bit familiar, and later when I got to my first unit and I found out about counseling statements I thought I had mistakenly joined a cult. Maybe I was lucky, but besides the few fights I got into I haven't had any problems adapting or being excepted or making friends. The guys in my platoon know that I'm different, and I don't act like they do, and it's obvious that a big chunk of my childhood is missing, especially when they talk about stuff that all children are "supposed to know" and I give them that dumb look. They usually attribute my at times odd behavior as being a result of growing up overseas. Proffessionally I've excelled much faster than my counterparts. Possibly as a result of being raised in a very strict and controlled environment. I went from E-1 to E-5 in 2 1/2 years. I've graduated top in every course I've taken in the millitary, and all that without any formal education.

It has been an enlightening experience, and a helpful one. It has helped me be proud of who I am. From a beggar and peddler to a soldier. But now I can't wait to get out and start school. I haven't had time to take any college classes while in.
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From dan
Friday, June 25, 2004, 01:08

where in iraq dude? i'm out that way sometimes. maybe i can buy you beer at a bar that doesn't officaly exist. (reply to this comment
From Zed
Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 00:10

I'm in Camp BlackJack, on Victory North. A Co 1-5 CAV.(reply to this comment
From dan
Wednesday, July 21, 2004, 05:34

ever get over to the big px? give me a date and i'll bring you a beer. i'm at slayer(reply to this comment
From exister
Monday, June 21, 2004, 07:17


"I haven't had time to take any college classes while in."

Having worked with many Army people while I was in the AF I can vouch for this. While the AF is basically a 40 hour a week job the Army works their troops like dogs with everything from 80 hour weeks to 24 on 12 off shift rotations. I guess it makes sense since Army folks are supposed to stay awake and shoot at people for days on end. In any case I have much respect for those in the Army, but don't join if you want to get some college done while you are on active duty. (reply to this comment

From Wolf
Monday, June 21, 2004, 10:12

Most dogs don’t work very hard … perhaps donkeys would be more appropriate?(reply to this comment
From exister
Monday, June 21, 2004, 15:04

Actually my dogs do work very hard. They can carry a third of their weight for 20 miles without flinching. They make a great support crew for a long trail run.(reply to this comment
From DevilDogX
Sunday, November 07, 2004, 02:33

Hoorah! to that -- DevilDogx US Marine(reply to this comment
from Nique
Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 22:10

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I've been in the Air Force for 10 and a half years now. I left TF in April of '93, earned my GED in December '93, and was in Basic Training by February 1st of '94. Basically, I had no where else to go. My mom lived in the projects in Massachussetts so I had only stayed with her for 2 weeks when I landed in the US after I left TF. Then I went to work at a couple different resorts on the Gunflint Trail in Minnesota's arrowhead. I ended up being there until I joined the military.

Although I still got stressed out at times in Basic Training just because of the sleep deprivation and the horrible, nasty girls in my flight, honestly, my basic training wasn't anything like what some of you others experienced, although they did shout at us all the time but, at least in the Air Force, they don't touch you. It's more just head games and I had absolutely no preparation from anyone. The TIs did pick on me more because I wouldn't break down and cry in front of them. It's possible I would have had a more difficult time adjusting to the military way of life and its rules and regulations had I had a taste of some of the freedoms that many of you did but I left TF before the charter and had never experienced any of that. I was always amazed at the stuff my younger siblings were able to get away with while they were still in TF the couple of times that I saw any of them.

I've crossed the half-way mark and will definitely be in until I retire at 20 years. While I was in Alaska, I completed my BA in Russian Language so I did get that done before reaching 30. I'm in the process of applying for OTS so if I get selected I'll owe another 10 years, which will put me at over 21 years in the military. I don't have the career I want (I'm an Air Force weather forecaster although I currently work in systems acquisition, which is preferable) because the recruiter was able to convince me to come in "open general" but at least I have my undergrad degree completed and I've taken the Defense Language Proficiency Tests for Russian and French, scoring well enough to earn an extra $135/month for a couple of years now (they don't pay for Spanish otherwise I'd be getting paid for that too).

By the time I retire, I'll have completed a Master's Degree or two and should be on my way toward my Doctorate. Although I was always on "probation" for my rebelliousness and independence in TF, I haven't done too badly in the military and do adhere pretty closely to most of the rules (I know...I probably sound boring). I do respect rank as required but have definite ways of showing incompetent, lazy people how I feel about them and have been counseled about that in the past once or twice. Because of my consistent performance though, I can frequently work things to my advantage in that respect. I have also been vocal about and fought (successfully at times) against the religious, homophobic, chauvinistic right. I have always managed to keep the confidence and respect of the co-workers that mattered, both junior and senior.

We don't make rank nearly as fast as the other services but there are definite advantages to being in the US Air Force. I've heard a lot of talk from current/prior military members who have used drugs while in the military but it is one thing I feel very strongly about. Since being in the military, using drugs has never crossed my mind. I can vouch for the fact that people do get caught.

I did attend the protestant services in Basic Training because at the time I had only recently left TF and had some remants of the Christian belief system. I'd probably still go today because if you don't, you're forced to continue working. Besides, the protestant service is very secular and it is possible to tune out the guy at the front and just have time to chit chat or even nap if you feel like it. I didn't have as many anger issues back then that I needed to take out on anyone but I'd have to say I have more of them now. It took me a while to process everything and get angry. I've become a lot more cynical/hardened/sarcastic over the years to the point where I frequently shock people (including my husband) with some of the things I say. I no longer adhere to any particular belief system. I believe in work and I believe in educating myself.

I personally believe a stint in the military would not harm anyone. It's a good place to get on your feet. There are a lot of advantages/benefits to joining for at least one enlistment. The important thing to remember is to hold out for a specific job and not settle for "open general" unless you have no other options. It is not difficult to make it in the military. There is just as much stuff to deal with in the civilian sector and if anyone can't make it in the military, I think it's likely that they have difficulty in the civilian sector as well.
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from Shaka
Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 15:00

Any of y'all have any advice for someone just going in?
(reply to this comment)
From DevilDogX
Sunday, November 07, 2004, 02:45

Join the marines.. the AF and the Navy are pansies(reply to this comment
From Nique
Monday, June 21, 2004, 17:16


Sure, I've probably told you most of this before but...

- Hold out for a job you want. Some good choices are enlisted aircrew jobs on either the AWACS or one of the other planes like the KC135. You'll still get to go through all the survival schools and you'll be paid extra as well. There are also lots of benefits like mandatory crew rests, exemptions from additional duties, etc. You'd also have fun as pararescue or Combat Controller...that seems to be your thing right now so if that's what you want, you may as well go for it. Just make sure you cross-train in time if you get tired of it.

- Basic Training should be pretty easy for you. They will yell at you a lot though. Don't take a swing at your TIs or any of your flight members no matter how hard that may be for you.

- When you go to Basic Training, don't take a lot of junk (knick-knacks, pictures, etc.) with you. I made the mistake of bringing all my belongings (because I knew I wasn't returning) and they had way too much fun with me during shake down. Down show up with any haircut or clothing that really stands out. You don't want to be noticed right away.

- In Basic Training, Tech School, and even as a junior enlisted member, you will have to perform some menial tasks. That's just the way things go.

- Don't get married during at least your first enlistment!! (And don't try to maintain a long distance relationship're too young for that! --No offense to anyone you may be dating currently :)...)

- Don't get anyone pregnant during at least your first enlistment!!

- Since you're enlisting in the Air Force, get your Korea tour over with early but don't let a "juicy" convince you to pay off her tab and marry her. While there are exceptions, she likely does not love you - she only wants the green card and to move to the land of the big BX.

- Don't be an idiot and go buy a new/used car on your own. Talk to someone more experienced. If you get stationed somewhere near us, I'll have Sven go with you. Car dealers love junior enlisted members.

- Start investing right away. Take advantage of the Thrift Savings Program and put as much into it as they'll let you. You could also start on EE bonds or I bonds.

- Drop me a line or give me a call when you're ready to start school. I'll help you get started. I've become pretty proficient at helping people set up college programs for themselves and I know how education on military installations works. The education couselors are only there to help the laziest and most clueless students.

Well, that's it for now. I hope everything's going well for you. See you soon, I hope. Your sis, Dominique(reply to this comment

From exister
Tuesday, June 22, 2004, 08:39


If you absolutely must see a juicy girl while in Korea I would suggest the following:

Go to the bar with exactly $12. $1 for your beer, $10 for one juice and $1 to spare. When the juicy girl says, "You wan' buy me juice GI?" you say "sure."

After she's drank her juice, which could take anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes depending on how you rank, the old ajima will come by and say, "You buy her juice!" at which point you turn your pockets inside out and say, "Got no money". At this point the ajima will turn to the juicy girl and say "Shoo, shoo" with a backward sweeping motion of her hands.

Now with your juicy experience sucessfully concluded you can saunter back to base and realize how lucky you are to have encountered a juicy girl, but not taken her back to America with you. (reply to this comment

From Shaka
Monday, June 21, 2004, 20:35

Thanks Dom, right now I'm just trying to get this form filled out. Having to say exactly where I was for the last 7 years is a bitch. Oh yeah, the limit of times that it's ok to have done weed is 10 or 15? (reply to this comment
from dan
Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 08:56


i've been looking for you mate. i'm dan and atthe sc we used to run around the grave yards shooting bbs. i got out shortly after that stint and after about a year joined the navy with the intent of being seal. boot camp was laaljfkdable (i tryed them all but could not get he word laugh spelled.) they used to try stupid mind games or guilt trips. all those things were so amature in their atempts at mind controll. they do a good brainwash gig butthe fam has them beat by miles.

the bigest prob for me was trying to be a seal and competing with guys who were all american athletes. these fucker were so much stronger and faster than me. it was an ass kicking from hell but in the end it went well for me. i had to put out 100% for every evelution but i got there.

after becoming a seal the problems started. i didn't fit in at all. like a man from a nother country. (no shit) didn't get the jokes , didn't understand the whole new guy old guy thing. i just didn't get it.

i also had a hard time respecting the men i worked for. to me not knowing about the world around you is tantamount to illitracy. i am almost illitrate by my terible spelling but i can give a fairly accurate synopsis of more countries than most of them can name.

after about 3 years i had no desire to strugle and strain to be a good seal so at 5 years i got out and was happy that i did. made e-5 in 3 1/2 years.

the adrinaline adiction that i picked up from jumping and diving and blowing 1000lb charges didn't go away though and for a year or so i was all fucked up. looking for trouble etc. fortunatly for me the us gov is not that bright and decided to go to war with evil and it looks like the end is nowhere in sight.

i've been contracting for almost two years now. mainly protecting gov and oga people in war zones. it's not bad and the money is terific. it's like a reunion every time i go bake. guys i would never know how to get ahold of will come waltzing on up and after a douple take and a thought the name comes to mind.

i have no home town so no group of highschool friends that i see and validate my life with. for me; when i get into these war zones i see all my pals and partners. hear about their wives and kids. it's very fucked up but the scence of home is felt no opon return to the us but opon return to the shit.

sorry to spill on and on but tiday was bit nuts and i'm a bit spun up still. the things we do that are "normal" when you stop and look and turn to your partner, you have to just up and laugh as it is so nuts. makes jumping out of a perfectly good airplain into a dark open ocean with a jump master that just gives a shrug instead of a thumbs up seem , incontrast, a sane and well thought out thing.

email me. we should get a pint together next time i'm in london. i have a bit of a weakness for that town as it is so unlike the us (excluding ny)

be well and wach out for adrinaline withdrawels. don't stop working out. i put on 25 pounds this year by working intead of working out.

(reply to this comment)

From geo
Sunday, June 20, 2004, 18:53

danny browne right? i think i knew you in japan at some stupid place like komae or something.
i think i can understand what your talking about the hole fiting in thing. i joined the infantry and then the special forces "green berets" and yeah i felt like a bit of an outsider sometimes, but honestly there were so many other strange people in special forces that i didnt even have to try to fit in or pretend anything, it was better being wierd in a sense. And i found that the military and especially special forces really look at physical preformance and fitness and if i could out do most of the other guys i didnt have to worry about any of that.
right now im working as an instructor in the special forces qualification course but im definitly considereing the contracting work a lot of people i know from special forces or making ridiculous amounts of money doing that. oh yeah and i got you beat for rank i had my e-6 by 3 1/2 years.
but im glad to see you post here i was wondering how the seal thing worked out for you. drop me a line sometime.
and good luck.(reply to this comment
From Baxter
Sunday, June 20, 2004, 12:24


Is this Danny Brown? If so, f__king hell, mate how you doing? Yes, I remember the cemetary shootouts. Anyway, I heard you went mercenary or something for a bit, any truth in that? E-mail me sometime man, it'd be great to hear from you.

I had heard you made seals. I have to say I was fucking impressed; SF has so much popular culture crap wrapped around it that you never get a full picture of what it's actually like. Anyway hope you drop me a line sometime, mate. (reply to this comment

From Baxter
Sunday, June 20, 2004, 12:24


Is this Danny Brown? If so, f__king hell, mate how you doing? Yes, I remember the cemetary shootouts. Anyway, I heard you went mercenary or something for a bit, any truth in that? E-mail me sometime man, it'd be great to hear from you.

I had heard you made seals. I have to say I was fucking impressed; SF has so much popular culture crap wrapped around it that you never get a full picture of what it's actually like. Anyway hope you drop me a line sometimes, mate. (reply to this comment

From dan
Friday, June 25, 2004, 00:53


contractor please. mercenary is such a dirty word. i would email you if you had a contact box. try me at i can't bring myself to give out a address on this thing but you should be able to goin into my profile and click the box??

for a while i thought you might be alf. sent the poor fuck some nasty notes. don't think it was you cuase he had no sense of humor. (reply to this comment

from exister
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 09:36

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

USAF - 7 years - SSgt

I found that complying with the rules and regs of the military was easy because they made sense, or at least they did at one time. The Family's crap never made any sense which just made it that much more insulting and demeaning. I would have stayed in, but frankly that would have been the easy way out in life. Once you are an NCO you pretty much just tool around with your coffee mug, chew out your subordinates and write reports. I didn't want to be that semi-creepy 38 year old military retiree taking freshman college classes with a bunch of punks just out of high school, so instead I became the mid 20's creepy veteran taking sophomore classes. BTW, becoming a college graduate before the age of 30 is highly recommended.
(reply to this comment)

from jez
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 06:29

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Good question, well presented and deserves an answer! I joined the Territorial Army (National Guard equivalent in UK) Royal Engineers for 4 years and experienced alot of the same feelings.

At times I did feel like I was surrounded by idiots, but enjoyed the camraderie and sense of achievement on completing physically demanding tasks. A bit like that crap joke about the nut in the loony bin, who on being asked why he's banging his head against the wall, replied 'cause it feels so good when I stop'.

I did make some good friends though, and a couple of enemies, both of which I was proud of. It helped me to gain a bit of physical and mental toughness, or a backbone and the ability to 'switch off' (a skill finely honed in years of 'devotions') helped a great deal when being shouted at by an illiterate lance corporal 2 inches from my face.

I did find saluting a chore and generally avoided officers, but didn't have a problem with obeying orders from most NCOs. Usually it was the newly promoted lance jacks who were power-tripping that got on my nerves, I relieved my tension by swearing in one of the foreign languages I'd picked up in TF.

The institutionalised way of life reminded me alot of TF and the way I saw it was; 'Ive had to do alot more degrading shit than anything the army could throw at me for sweet FA, now at least I'm getting paid and fit as a result' .

I have a feeling there are a fair few of us, but I expect many of those that are still serving will want little to do with anything related to TF out of fear of discovery. Personally, I think it's good to have this forum for exTF/Armed Forces, maybe we could meet up and have a paintball tournament! He he!
(reply to this comment)

From Baxter
Friday, April 23, 2004, 02:58

Good idea, mate! We can exchange 'worst lance jack stories'!
Might be fun!

I was a Coldstreamer for the duration of my time in the forces, so you can imagine the levels of bullshit I had to put up with! I agree, for I too hated the slew of illiterate junior NCOs who kept showing up at my door with ever escalating levels of inane crap! Whilst in N Ireland I had to be flown back to England because I came to blows with one! One time on a night navex I had a crow of a Lcpl who looked at the map all of twice, in traditional Scottish weather, and then proceeded to head off in the wrong direction. When me and the other senior G-man told him he was well off, he refused to listen to us until he had walked us ten miles off course, off the fucking training area (which is kinda difficult to do in Scotland)!The only person who finally convinced him he was wrong was a fucking cab driver we happened to bump into! (reply to this comment
From jez
Friday, April 23, 2004, 07:22

I was lucky never to have had to do NI, but judging by the stories I've heard from mates who have, your experience seems to be quite normal in that the stress levels are sufficient to FMED8 out (discharged on medical/mental grounds) most people.

One bloke I know who this happened to was on guard duty, when an IRA sniper blows his oppo's head off whilst stood next to him, he also happened to be his best friend. The same week he receives a 'Dear John' from his girlfriend back in England and completely loses it. He was RTR so the levels of bullshit would have been considerably less than what you would've experienced in the Guards.

The scarey thing was he was allowed to join the TA as a scaley-back, which was a bad idea, as he ended up pointing his SA80 at the RSM one night when ordered by him to stag on! (reply to this comment

from Sir Rantalot
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 02:36

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I've been in the army(Italy) 3 months now, I just finished basic training.

I found basic training was extremely cult-like, emotionally I was a wreck, going from furiously angry to cool sarcasm to morose depression. What was getting to me was the lact of freedom, all day long, fom morning to night being herded around like sheep was freaking me out. Then in the evening having no privacy, no place to "get away from it all", kicked in some defense mechanism inside me. I cursed at any fellow soldiers who came near me, picked two fights and taunted others when they weren't strong enough to make it in training.

I considered it insulting to my dignity as a volunteer soldier when they made us sweep floors and herded us into church services just to fill seats. I refused to go to church to they put me on forced physical labor, which I enjoyed immensely, I've got a masochistic workers streak in me, sometimes I feel i put push my limit to convalidate my worth as a person.

When I had to sweep outside, a job civilians are paid to do, not soldiers, I went crazy with rage. I put my cap on backwards, unbuttoned my uniform and whicle sweeping I lauhed hysterically at passinf officers, as well as singing lewd songs at the top of my voice. I joined the army to learn how to kill and shoot, not to clean floors.

I excelled in training though, I'm used to hard work and tough excersise, most of the others were daddy's boys, with a perception that they deserved an easy carefree life. I cursed them when they complained about anything, from the food to training hours.

Then, towards the end of basic training, I saw parallels in my officers and the home sheperds methods, I started talking back to them, taunting them, as well as having other soldier in stichtes with my sarcastic imitations of officers. I once burped and then spat at a lieutenant, he made me run 5 times around the soccer field with my rifle, with the rest of the soldiers cheering me on. After 3 rounds he called me back & I toldhim to fuck off and let me finish 5 rounds. He didn't make me run anymore because otherwise he would have created and unwanted hero champion of rebellion. I told the lieutenant he was a cowaerd who hid behind his grade, because he didn't have the balls in to face me one-on-one in a fight. The guys in half my size and my same age, fucking cunt...

I refuse to let superior officers intimidate me like the home sheperds used to, I prefer punishment to taking any more shit and psychological pressure from anyone. In TF I developed the art of "dissapearing", of blending into the crowd to avoid being called out for guard duty etc..

I make a joke of the army any chance I get, and the law too. example, there is no written martial law against pissing in public on military ground, so I do it as often as possible. Or we have to sing the national anthem every morning, I sing it loud and WAY off key, hey it's not my fault I'm tone-deaf, Captain....

(reply to this comment)

From Baxter
Wednesday, April 28, 2004, 05:43

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Enjoy mate, it'll only get better!

When I went through CMSR (basic),I was the one of only five non-white recruits at the depot. Racism spewed out hard and fast. In fact, I get kinda pissed off when I hear certain people talking about the social implications of racism in an abstract sense. For me, it was very real.

When I got to phase two, the bullshit escalated exponentially. This was just before the major changes in safety regulations, which meant that NCOs would still lay into you if you fucked up. The bruises aside, it actually worked out better than the alternative, which was resctrictions of priviledges, fines, or Jail ( Which I never did). That said, the brutality could sometimes begin to overwhelm you. Often the training staff would make us do insane crap just to amuse themselves, or to demonstrate that we had potential as killers, or whatever. Some of them would start battering particular platoon members, who then had to demonstrate that they were tough enough to take it. Sometimes they'd make us assume stress positions for ridiculous periods of time, till blokes were breaking down in tears. I remember getting called out several times on parade in the middle of the night in my shorts, and then standing there for however long they wanted us to, just so they could tell us that the swabbing wasn't up to scratch.

A lot of the bullshit was deliberately imposed on us, to try and shape us the way they wanted us. As Guards Division recruits, our training was longer than that of other divisions. We had to spend days on end on the drill square, going up and down, performing the same inane movements over and over. One time an instructor came out on the square and said 'the order to advance the left foot will be signified by the letter "B";the order to advance the left foot will be signified by the letter "R". NOW, STEP TO THE TIME I CALL OUT! BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!' and proceeded to make that stupid noise until most of us couldn't hear him for exhaustion.

If you've ever seen the film 'Full Metal Jacket', you will understand the mentality of the military training philosophy: Collective punishment for individual error. Normally this translated into everyone doing press-ups in front of the offender, and was meant to compel everyone else to motivate the culprit to improve. One time this took on a particularly nasty significance. There was (Just as in the film) a fat boy in the platoon, a big weak waste of space who dragged everyone down. One night three other soldiers decided to teach him a lesson by beating him in his bed. The first two didin't go too far, but the third one was a Welsh boxer who was pretty much psychotic (probably abused as a child); He took a broom-handle to his head, and knocked 80% of one of his eyes out and gave him multiple fractures all along his arms. In that one moment that crazy Taff took out all that anger we were all probably feeling, and laid it into that poor fat bastard. After that, Our platoon was branded off limits to the rest of the Depot. The rumours abounded that those three were told by the instructors to do what they did, and I wouldn't be surprised, but in this case it went well out of control.

Violence was always a major part of the curriculum. Sometimes the NCOs amused themselves by staging illegal pit fights during training sessions on the Obstacle course, and one of them would film it. I'm not saying I avoided this, as it was basically a good excuse to get at some of the people who gave me shit. When we went on Bayonet training, they would tell us stories before hand of Victoria Cross winners who took out machine gun nests single handed, or account of the bayonet fighting in the falklands, to psyche us up. Then they'd make us crawl through cold, muddy water, or leopard crawl through sheepshit, or make us run uphill and downhill until the only reserve you had left was your aggression. Wierdly, they would play bagpipe music the entire time ( I fail to grasp the application). Needles to say, there was usually very little cloth left on the Manequins.

But when I got to Battalion, it all went surreally insane. As the only Oriental person in a Regiment once prouldy bearing the distinction as the most racist organisation the western world next to the KKK, I couldn't have been in a shittier position. Senior G-men would come back into the lines after tanking up in town, and then use the 'Crows' (junior soldiers) as random punch-bags. They often made excuses for this, but they needed no justification. Most of the NCOs turned a blind eye. I wasn't necessarily because I wasn't white, just because I happened to be there.

After a while this shit got to me. At first, I went nuts on Drugs, first Weed leading on to harder stuff (confirming the asssertion that weed does that); I was very close ot suicide at that time, and might have turned my weapon on myself if I hadn't made some extremely worthwhile friends. Then I just got rebellious, and ended up getting into arguments and eventually fisticuffs with NCOs. This got me booted out of Company, into (What was the logic?) Public Relations. I spent two year as a liaison for Army recruiting group, as a 'role model'( again, find the logic). I met a lot of the brass, as well as important civilians during that time. Funnily enough, as the Army's Image of me as an ideal 'role model' grew, so did my drug diet! I'd spend the whole week pumping bullshit into impressionable schoolkids, only to vent my anger by going out with my civilian friends and getting utterly wasted on drugs and booze. Drug-testing was a joke; I was tested at least eight to ten times in the Army- often a week after a session- ,and was never busted.

My time in recruiting group not only boosted my self-confidence, it destroyed my respect and even my fear of authority. When I eventually went back to my Regiment, My superiors were stuck between wanting to promote me and boot me; I saved them the hassle by handing in my termination. (reply to this comment
from rudow
Monday, April 12, 2004 - 19:54

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Ive wondered the same thing, baxter.

I went into the navy when I was 17, and the culture shock was intense..but I think I adapted pretty well. basic was mostly just a mindfuck, and not extremely physical like the army or marines. I know what youre talking about though when you say how you discovered alot of agression in yourself.

I didnt find it easy to talk to anyone, much less my superiors. at first I found myself extremely intimidated by officers and non coms, regardless of their age...maybe a hangover from having "shepherds" whose word was law, and you did not piss off under any circumstances. I was discharged after 2 years, when I injured myself during training for rescue swimmer school. I tried to get back in for a long time, but no good. Im currently trying for LAPD, so wish me luck.
(reply to this comment)

from tastypants
Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 21:02

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
i havent joined any of the armed forces yet even though i am constanly being called by them. but in high school i joined the football, wrestling, and track team. i joined them becasue i needed something to let out my aggression and yes it felt good i was one of the hardest hitters on my football team and practices seemed like a cake walk. i was eventually kicked off the wrestling team for kicking the shit out of a teammate, and ended up being suspended from school. when i was in the family we could hardly even watch a sport on tv much less play one. i remember at teen camp we were doin push ups and got in trouble for it. they said that if we had energy to exercise we had energy to go clean the kitchen. fuckin bull shit huh. they just didnt want any of us to be able to kick thier asses when they tryed to punish us haha
(reply to this comment)
from Mydestinyismine
Monday, March 01, 2004 - 00:41


I didn't join any military but I can see how your opinion is true. Especially getting yelled at for no reason and being good at throwin something back.
(reply to this comment)

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