Moving On | Choose your lifeMoving On | Choose your life
Safe Passage Foundation - Support to youth raised in high demand organizations

Saturday, January 31, 2009    

Home | New Content | Statistics | Games | FAQs

Getting Out : Leaving

Reader's comments on this article

Add a new comment on this article

from elkyle
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 13:19

you haven't really left
(reply to this comment)
from Baxter
Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 08:32

I have to say that while it is often hard to find good friends on the outside, the friends you do make become a lot closer than any on the inside. What makes us what we are is not the series of experiences that comprise our lives but how we respond to them; ergo, we made ourselves who we are, not them.

On the other hand, it is easy to be judgemental of those who have not undergone the experiences that we have; you have to remember that these aspects which are so easy to condemn in other young people are natural features of youth. The Family stole our youth and they stole, for the most part, our innocence. To do this they did not have to sexually abuse us, or physically brutalise us. They just had to take away what was ours by right as children: the right to grow up resolving our own minds. Now that we have this right, we cherish it above all others. How could we ever see the World through the same eyes?
(reply to this comment)
from Ian
Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 05:14

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I wouldn't worry to much if you've only been "out" for two years, it took me a long time to find out who I was. As far as "fitting in" goes, I'm not sure what I need to fit into really, other than a decent shirt and some comfortable shoes.

Finding decent friends can be rough, try it in Vegas if you think the scum is thick on the pond in your grid sector. But "finding" something usually implies that you are looking or already had and now have lost. I prefer a my laptop and a fast connection, or a good porno flick.

I've spent alot of time in the last several months thinking about who I am and what "category" I fit into. I still can't decide if I have lived my life to close to the edge or not nearly close enough.

I found a bottle of Mouton Rothschild from 1990 and drank it other night, and it occured to me that I have never actually seen any under arm hair on a french woman, and also that decanting and college are both so much useless bullshit, then I checked the time (1:00 AM) so I locked up the office and drove home and couldn't fucking figure out why my wife was so pissed at me. So I guess I fit in with that group...........wherever they are.

......another fine post by Ian
(reply to this comment)

from KD
Friday, February 13, 2004 - 15:10

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Considering the fact that is been a short while since you left you’ll find that there are different ways of making friends, you’ll see how you are not doomed to live a solitary life, and people that you maybe consider to be wrong, sometimes turn out to be alright. You’ll get use to enjoying different kinds of company in a way that we were not use to in TF.
You say that it’s hard for you to make friends because they “seem terribly juvenile and materialistic”. Well whats wrong with being juvenile and materialistic? Personally at times I’ve come to realize that that’s exactly what I need. We were especially denied those 2 specific things while in TF, we were told how we had to be adults and responsible mature people at the age of 12, TF taught us that being materialistic is such a bad thing, but I’ve found that at times it can be most stress relieving and fun.
You said “others that have had nothing to do with the family are annoyingly simple.” Well what's wrong with being simple? Some friends I hang out with I like for the very fact that they are simple. One of the great things about being out of TF is the fact that now my friends range from people with different levels of intellectuality, cultures, religions, simplicity, ages and yes, even stupidity.
"Good friends are hard to find". What is a good friend? Do we really expect to find a whole world full of people with whom we can cry, laugh and share are deepest, troubles, secrets, past etc., and still hope that they will like and accept us the way we are? How many “good friends” do we need? If our definition of good friends is as the one I just mentioned well in that case I feel lucky that I have 2 who can fall under that category and they’re my sisters. With my other friends I can connect with them in different ways and levels. We accept each others differences, beliefs, etc., sometimes I can learn new things with them and others can’t teach me a thing but, I have a hell of good time when in their company and our appreciation for each other is mutual. Some of my friends consider me their “good friend” by confiding there troubles, secrets and joys in me and I respect and value that trust without feeling obligated to do the same with them.

(reply to this comment)
from banal_commentator
Friday, February 13, 2004 - 09:39

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Recently, not sure why, I've met some great people who I have a lot in common with, in fact this one girl I met practically lives my life. But this happened recently though, perhaps before I was so concerned with how "different" I was rather than noticing the many similarities that I share with my fellow students. Ex culties are waaaay too obsessed with their childhood. Although, you can certainly bond with people you share a similar childhood with I find other factors much more determining where friendships are concerned. Common work schedules, political views, same classes, freaky deak dancing styles, boyfriend troubles, high light troubles, shoe troubles, hatred toward rude customer service people, hatred for rude bitches, choice of narcotics, art preference etc. I guess there is so much life revolving around you and so many things to worry about at the moment, that the misfortune of been born in the cult, and the unfairness of not being "normal" starts to slowly fade.
(reply to this comment)
From banal_commentator
Monday, February 16, 2004, 08:56


Why do I now have only three instead of five thumbs up? I would like to know why and who disagrees with me!!!

(reply to this comment

from Nancy
Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 13:19

Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I agree with what Holon said about it taking time. That is what I've found as well. For the first few years after I left, I felt very isolated. I'd always rejected everything about the Family, even when I was a kid and had no choice but to be there in it, but when I left, as I'd always planned to do, it took me time to adjust. Emotionally I had to learn how to relate to people.

I think one thing that helped is that I didn't have any contact with people who'd been in the Family for ten years after I left. That helped a lot with adjustment. I learned to identify with people my age in college. I had to, they were the only people around. I made some great friends who would lay down in traffic for me. They liked me because I was myself, even though I was different from their white picket fence upbringing. In grad school, I met even more wonderful people. The thing which took the most time was with dating. I was scared for a very long time that a man would never be able to completely understand me or love me for who I was. Yet, after awhile I changed and my fear dissappeared.

I think it's all about time. Some people take more than others, but eventually, it is possible to have a very fulfilling life with lots of friends who never even heard of the Family and who accept you just as you are or even think you're more interesting because of your experiences.

I think finding this site, after years of making it on my own without any contact with people who grew up as I did, finally helped me to put it all behind me. It was nice to know that I wasn't alone in my struggles to establish myself.

But, in the beginning, I certainly felt as you do now. You'll be surprised though how things change over time. When you've spent about as much time in the real world as you were made to spend in a cult, all the things which made you feel isolated at one time seem to fade away. It becomes a distant memory, not something you struggle with day to day.
(reply to this comment)

From more than a friend
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 14:19

If you need a friend baby, just call me! I'll be to you more than a firend!(reply to this comment
from Holon
Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 11:16

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I'd have to say give your self some more time. It also depends where you live and where you go ect... But the best advise I have is ( I tell this to my kids all the time )Go out of your way to be a good friend ot someone and you'll be supprised how they will be there for you.

I have lots of friends some ex-family most not.But I have 3 best friends one of them I hated when I first met her I thought she was the craziest person I had ever met and she came off like a total freaky bitch and later I found out she thought I was a stuck up bitch.

To make a long story short we started working together and spent all day everyday together and became friends and had babies the same year, got married the same year , had more babies together bought houses the same year and we grew together as women and mothers and we have been there for eachother through thick and thin.I love her and respect her more than I can put into words and I'm sure she would say the same about me.

Now, I love my other 2 best friends dearly too but my point here is that you can find good friends in the most unlikely places. I never in a million years would have guessed that Michelle and I would have become best friends,we freaking hated eachother,But there is always more to a person than meets the eye.People who knew us when we first met always say that" I cant believe you two are so close,how did that happen?Didnt you want to beat the crap out of eachother one time?"You just never know what destiny has in store for you.Look deeper into a person and you just might find a friend in an unlikely place.
(reply to this comment)

from banal_commentator
Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 09:19

Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I feel like we all need to stop having Oprah Winfrey real life talk shows.
(reply to this comment)
From exister
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 11:36

I strongly suspect that banal is a dude.(reply to this comment
From banal_commentator
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 12:17

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Your suspision is not entirely unwarranted, most people on this site assume so as well. However, if you automatically associate loquaciousness and bonding with females, and presume that those who do not enjoy emotional sap crap are male then I feel very sorry for your bigoted, conditioned mind. (reply to this comment
from cyborcosmic
Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 05:45

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I feel like I've come out from under my shell these past 2 years.

Does that mean I fit in, not necessarily. It does mean that I found my self. And found out how to be myself. When I meet people I am open with them but I don't like the type that is curious of my history. It makes me uncomfortable when they probe, it is so irrelevant to them because I don't know them, and they haven't got a clue. I think its better for me to tell them when I want to tell them (like when I know they are open-minded enough and can relate because of similar experiences). So I don't let everyone close to me, and I know thats a good thing!

I have found some friends, ages 24 to 45 who's parents (or by choice) have also been part of different religious communities. (OSHO, Buddism,) I can relate more to them because we were both raised in an unconventional way. It has made their life more of a struggle, because it means that you must find your own way (tao) whereas most in our age group would choose to go as smoothly as possible with as many material comforts as one can find. There is a dissatisfaction within us for an ordinary life. so I keep moving right along to new experiences. And that is what excites me.

The negative side of growing up in an unconventional way is that there is not much assurance that people will understand what you are going through emotionally (such deep waters!) there is a fear of trusting people with the feelings you have. There is also an insecurity because you feel so different, maybe even inadequate. Maybe even a fear of rejection. What I really want is recognition, not sympathy.

Just a friend who says: " Yeah, I know what you mean! " That person is not so easy to find when it comes to all the stories of abuse though, so maybe that is best to discuss with councelers (parents, if they are receptive!) or relatives.
(reply to this comment)

From seeker
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 11:55

A beautiful way to express it: "a dissatisfaction within us for an ordinary life."(reply to this comment
From Caveat
Friday, February 20, 2004, 08:51

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Yes, that is well expressed. However, I have changed over more than a decade out as regards that same dissatisfaction which made life full of turmoil for me, and even helped kill an exer friend I know. I think now that what TF thought of as a worthless "ordinary life" say, no major material need, whatever, can form the stable basis of a VERY worthwhile life. If one is not constantly struggling with poverty, crises from a crazy life, etc., one can discover things that have great value, mentall, spiritually, whatever, and go through a physically comfortable life that is in no way dissatisfying. I am so glad I no longer oppose those two ideas as I did for years.(reply to this comment
from Webel
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 19:42


Yeah, I hear you - there are lots of shallow people out there but don't be discouraged there are some super nice ones too. Just recently I was wondering the same thing and I made a wonderful friend and we get along great - I am 29 and she is 50 but age doesn't count, the bonus with having an older friend is that they are mature and have lived a little. My suggestion is to hang out with people who are a lot older than you - they will be a lot more understanding. I NEVER tell anyone my background, - the friends I've had for years know all about it but not my new friendships, it's on a need to know basis only and I don't need their approval or acceptance of my past - it's private, they can just take me as I am:) TF is irrelevant to my life now, but thanks to them I'm not so gullible and I am better person.
(reply to this comment)

from Jovi
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 19:08


I've found out that ''finding friends'' it's just a matter of personality and not a matter of growing up in the cult, I've seen people who in the family didn't have many friends and out they don't eather.In my case I've come to know lots of people,people who when I'm bored I can call and do fun stuff, all kinds if I want to go dancing I call some, if I want something for the mind I call another, but when it comes to real friends, I only have two.When I hear some of you talking about feeling bad for not having a normal up bringing I can understand to a certain point but to be honest with you''normal'' it's just something that it is acording to each individual, at first i used to feel different from the rest now I've come to the conclution that most ppl feel bad about things that happened in their lives;some grew up in poor conditions, some were abused, some didn't have the atention from their parents etc.

All this to say, again, that I think having more or less or not friends at all its a personality matter, which of course has a lot to do with our biography, history and genes, in some cases we'll have to fight harder to fitt in but not harder than any other who has a ''normal'' upbringing.peace to all... or hell? whatever you want, cya in the next life...
(reply to this comment)

from afflick
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 18:39


In the few years that I have been out, I have made a solid, loyal group of friends who have never been in The Family. But it has taken time, the first two years I was out, after living somewhere for two years and partying a lot, I couldn't think of a single person I felt close to.

Eventually you'll find a group of trustworthy people who deserve your friendship and trust. I promise.
(reply to this comment)

from juniper
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 17:34

I totally relate to what you are saying. I know that people of my generation are not terribly wanted here but since I left 23 years ago with my children maybe you'll accept what I'm saying. When I first left I felt like I had so many secrets (especially having been a prostitute for the Family) and I could only have superficial relationships with people. I was convinced if anyone knew the truth about me they wouldn't want to know me. Consequently I was very lonely for a long time. The more self worth I acquired over the years the more honest I was able to be with people and the less ashamed I felt. This process took a long time but eventually I felt as worthy as the next person. My friendships became deeper (although I tend to be a one on one person) and my friends felt privileged to know me. As a woman I find it easier to have friendships with men (who knows why) but the main point I'm trying to make is the fact that you have survived what you've been through makes you very special and not everyone (particularly the simple minded or materialistic) will relate to that. Be yourself and be honest, never be ashamed, and you will attract the same real and honest friends.
(reply to this comment)
from Vicky
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 16:42


Big subject, and it seems I become tongue-tied whenever I try to explain how I feel about this, so pls. bear with me if I waffle on a bit.

I have huge difficulties in this area because when it comes to friendships, I value above all else friends that I can totally be myself with. I don't know if I will ever feel completely at ease with people who did not grow up like I did, because I feel that so much of 'me' has been shaped by my upbringing, and I don't want to have to try to smooth over that when I'm with people who wouldn't understand where I'm coming from.

Having been with my husband for 9 years now and with two children, I also feel very uncomfortable with people my own age who don't have children, as if I really don't relate. I have met some mothers of other children at my girls' school, but they are aquaintences, not friends. It's okay to see them for a cup of tea once in a while (we are in England, after all...), but it doesn't do anything for me as far as support and friendship, as I can't ever really talk with them about anything more than normal small talk.

I guess another reason why I find it difficult to make a real connnection with people could be that I often feel so intimidated by people who have got their lives 'together' to a degree - I feel so angry sometimes that I didn't have the chance to study when I was younger, especially on the difficult days when I feel like half my life is going to be spent trying to catch up. Of course I love my girls beyond measure, and I do realise that I have been lucky to have had the last 8 years to be with them, caring for them at home and devoting myself completely to motherhood, but at the same time it is so frustrating to think of waiting another 5-6 years to get started on any of the things I want to do in my lifetime.

Maybe part of the problem also lies in the needs that women have for communication - I think it is much easier for the men, generally, because their requirements from the social groups they interact with don't seem as complex as the things we girls look for -- How hard can it be to play pool, drink beer and talk about sex/sports/cars...? When I am with friends I want to be able to talk about real things - talk through problems I am having, talk through insecurities, talk through the latest challenge I am facing with my children and their upbringing. Most importantly, probably, I need to be able to talk through the latest adaptions I have made to living 'out here', which means talking about it with someone who understands and who can relate.

All these things make it really hard to even imagine having a real friendship with an 'outsider.' I hope this will change in time, and I do realise it is still a relatively short time ago I left TF, so perhaps I just need to give it some more time.

(reply to this comment)

From Joe H
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 18:55

"How hard can it be to play pool, drink beer and talk about sex/sports/cars...? " What a misandrist thing to say! How would you feel if I applied the same thought process when analyzing your situation, a la "How hard could it be to paint your nails, shop for shoes, and twirl your hair?" Take your female chauvinism elsewhere!(reply to this comment
From banal_commentator
Monday, February 16, 2004, 12:20

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I am seriously not joking when I say this; but painting your nails is extremely hard. I can't paint them myself and if I do I just paint my whole finger then scrape it off the skin when it dries. Also shopping for shoes is very challenging. For some reason I can just never find a pair of shoes that I like, i spend endless hours looking for the perfect pair online. However, I'm pleased to say that I have no problem twirling my hair. (reply to this comment
From Vicky
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 02:36


Awww, sorry Joe! I had hoped that people would realise I was kidding! I do in fact have some really good male friends who are much more interesting than that, and I value their friendships and their viewpoints too!

I was only trying to make the point that it seems a lot of ex-fam guys have found it easier to settle into friendships, maybe because they keep the analytical/introspective aspect of themselves quite separate, at least in most cases, from the social friendships they engage in? Like you said, I do believe it would be easier for me if I would let up on the "deep" thinking once in a while and just get out and enjoy myself a bit more, but for some reason I find that very difficult to do.

Anyway, I would be quite upset if people thought I actually believed that that's all you guys are good for, so please forgive my indiscretion! next time I'll remember to add the little smiley face...(reply to this comment

From Vicky
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 16:44

Should that be "adaptations"?(reply to this comment
from Jerseygirl
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 15:52


I feel as if I've talked about this whole topic so many times with different individuals and yet it seems that this is the first time it has become a discussion here. Most of the time in my life I feel that I am juggling a lot of different friendship balls. I have friends that I love to be with and they have no clue as to my past and all of that cult stuff. Then I have the other friends who may know about it and we have found some way to still have things in common. Then there are the friends that I've been to hell and back with and are the only thing that keep me from insanity at my worst times.

I know that this may all seem unhealthy and complicated and I can't fully explain it but its my own little way of coping with the whole fitting in issue. I think that I've come to learn to appreciate each friend for different reasons. Sometimes I have to have that past connection and other times I need the simplicity and escape of those friends that(as Joe aptly described it) may not always be in the intellectual or conversational catagory I prefer.

In any case , thanks for opening this topic as I think it will become very obvious that you are not alone in trying to find a place in the world.

PS and if it ends up that we are indeed doomed to never fit in, at least we can all be doomed together.

(reply to this comment)

from Joe H
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 13:57


I've been told that women frequently don't want advice, just a sympathetic ear, but since you have enough of those already (including mine), I'm going to go ahead and give you some advice anyway:

Gustave Flaubert said "To be stupid, selfish, and have good health are all that is required for happiness, though, if stupidity is lacking, all is lost." I discovered over the years that the more I drank and generally turned off the hyper-analytical, over-critical parts of my brain, the happier I was. While standing around with a beer in my hand talking about the size of some girl's ass may not be my preferred past-time, it sure beats sitting at home wondering why I have no friends! Mother Theresa said "If you spend all your time judging people, you'll have no time left to love them." I have many friends whose intellect I don't really respect, but I do love them (or at the very least, I enjoy their company).

On the other end of the question, now that you're living in _______ (not sure if you want me blabbing about it), you do have the opportunity to hang out with a lot of people who share your upbringing and experiences. Many of them are also single moms. I think you'll find it to be quite a satisfying social experience. And don't feel like you're not "moving on" if these people end up being your only close friends - most people in the world have had their friends from a very young age. By the same logic, you could accuse them of mentally still being in high school, or the boyscouts, or wherever they first connected with their social group.
(reply to this comment)

From katrim4
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 16:43


Well put Joe. I really hate it when people go on about how superior they are because they don't hang out with ex fam people. If that works for you fine. But sometimes it really is easier to hang out with someone you've known for forever.

But just because someone is an exer doesn't automatically make them friendship material either. The people (my age) that I liked in the family I usually still like. And those I didn't like I don't really care to see again anyhow.(reply to this comment

from HannaB
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 11:20

I know what you feel like, lochnymph, I know EXACTLY what you feel like. Without wanting to stereotype or sound chauvinistic in any form, I think that that "syndrome" of not feeling like you fit in, occurs more often to female ex-members. Talking with ex-member girl-friends, I find that their stories all sound like yours, as does mine. Whereas most male ex-members I know have less of a problem. My husband, for example does not seem to share my "syndrome" and also has a hard time understanding why I should have a problem finding (female) friends. Like venusbutterfly explained it so well "there is some kind of weird static in the air when around them", though I simplify it to "women don't like me". Generally, I also get along with women who are a good 10 years older than me. Sure, I will talk with people and chat with women I know, but a conversation can only go to a certain length if the person I am talking with has no clue what it is like to have had a long-term relationship or be in the world on your own, without mom and dad to support you. Not that I am looking for someone who is in the same boat as me, but it would be nice if they had a hint of what I mean when I talk about other things than the latest fashion style. I don't know if I can say that I feel that I don't fit in, to me it's more like I feel that I am not accepted, but always looked at as though I were from the moon. Now, men might find an odd specimen like me interesting, whereas women I meet will just sort of give me a resignating look and that's the end of it. I mean, in a normal life you go to preschool with girls that you might end up going to college with, and generally women tend to have cliques. Perhaps that's why someone like me isn't welcome...? Either that, or I haven't noticed the sign tattooed on my forehead that reads: SUBNORMAL
(reply to this comment)
From exister
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 11:36


I find an odd specimen like you interesting. huh huh.

odd. huh huh

specimen. huhuhuhuhuhuh(reply to this comment

from Sonderval
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 10:33

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Hiyas, I don't post much here any more but wanted to reply to this.

Firstly, yes, you will probably always find it harder 'fitting in' than most, most people from a normal background are as you put it far to 'simple' to relate to, but that is not to say all, there are people out there who are complex, interesting people, often with different backgrounds of their own, and you will find friends who are on your level, but it will probably take you quite a period of adjustment after leaving to learn to relate.

After I left I felt completely isolated and had an incredibly difficult time relating to anyone for a long long time, I had some really bad times, I was addicted to most things going, suffered from depression horribly and had a delusional break with reality which I almost never recovered from. After a while (5 or 6 years) though I recovered and came out the other side, since then I have met several good friends who while they may not understand me they take me as I am, they are intelligent, complex and have depths of their own, I could not ask for better friends, one of these friends is now in fact my wife.

It may not work out this way for you, perhaps you won't have as many problems or perhaps you'll never really adjust, everyone is different and I won't presume to guess how you'll get on. But take heart from the fact that it can be done and stick with it, there are worthwhile people around it just takes time to learn how to recognise them amidst all the dross that is the bulk of humanity (my personal opinion).

Good Luck~

PS, I personally didn't have much contact with people inside or indeed other ex members, barring my siblings, I can't really guess at whether that contact would have been a help or a hindrance to learning to relate to people from different backgrounds, that's something you'll need to decide for yourself.

(reply to this comment)

from venusbutterfly
Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 10:08

Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 4 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

hi there,

don't think i know you or you me however i just wanted to say that no, you are not alone in your situation, because even if there were no one else on this site who felt the same way - which i strongly doubt - i do! and i've met up with all kinds of different people.....

i see you have a child, i had my children when i was quite young as well and i find it that makes quite a big difference as well, being a young parent makes you more mature, we do not think or react like others our age without children so imagine others our age, without children and without our background?!

for me it has caused many difficulties, to cite a recent example, well, one of the reasons my bf just left me is because (also due to my lack of self esteem) i do not relate very well with especially girls or women my own age, there is some weird static in the air when around them, i don't fit in and therefore get unconfortable which makes the person i'm with unconfortable etc etc, i mean you can talk for about an hour or so but then there is nothing to say...we're just on a different level that is just so above their heads...

then again, i can't really relate to people that are older because although we might be able to relate on child issues for example i remain a young person with different viewpoints so....

anyhow, i'm not going to write a book here, just thought i'd let you know you're not alone, this might sound pessimistic and maybe i'm wrong, but yes, we are pretty much doomed to never really fitting in, but then again...i've only been out 10 years now so it might still change...

take care
(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 18:57

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with your statement that people who have kids at a young age are more mature than those that don't. In my opinion, it exemplifies the very prevalent attitude that somehow having children makes you better, smarter, or "more mature". What about having a child at a younger age makes you more mature than me?

I have always been very mature and I made a consious choice not to have children until later on in my life. It is a decision I have stuck to because I don't see having children when one is young, inexperienced, just coming out of a cult and trying to integrate in life as a particularly mature decision. Experience, education, a track record of good decisions, and a well rounded, well balanced life is what constitutes maturity, not simply the act of bearing a child. In my experience, to have a child before one is ready or before one has had the opportunity to expose oneself to everything life has to offer is far from the mature thing to do, in fact, I think it's actually rather immature.

Now, for you and others like you who've had children at a young age, whether by choice or not, are making the best of it and are good parents, then good for you. I'm not trying to belittle your choices, your children or your life in anyway. But, please try to understand, maturity comes in many ways, not just in the act of bearing a child. (reply to this comment

From babiedoll
Monday, April 19, 2004, 10:19

I couldn't agree with you more. My little sister had her first baby when she was just 15, but that wasn't enough to make her think about where her life was going, she had another one two years later and is now a single mother of two at 18. She is not a very good mother and our family has to raise the kids for her and stay on her ass 24 to make sure she stays alive and not pg again. She has not at all matured from having her children young. In fact she was an "A" student and could have got a scholarship and shit but she choose to screw around again and throw it away. Its very sad for our family to deal with.(reply to this comment
From venusbutterfly
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 02:55

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

i didn't in any way mean we are more mature than you just because we have kids! i definitely agree that trying to get your life together and if you have had the choice of not having kids at a young age i admire and respect that, i know this may not sound very logical but perhaps for some of us the choice was not really there. anyhow, this is not the subject really, i'm not trying to put anyone down here, however that is just a fact, having had our background has made us who and what we are, i am not saying we - as in those who are young parents - are more mature than you, it's just difficult to really find people you can relate to on most levels and make quality friends of. and to clarify, it's not just the act of bearing a child that i consider makes someone mature, but all that it entails throughout their lives and upbringing, something you can never really understand until you've experienced it yourself. bringing up a child touches a lot of aspects of one's life that we might not think of at first sight - i won't get into all the details here as i don't want to bore anyone - and that is why for those of us who were not especially ready for having children (no one really is as you said, when young, leaving a cult and trying to get their life together) it is all that much more of a challenge, and that as a whole is what makes us also mature.

on another subject mentioned on some of the posts above, seems that quite a few women find it easier to have quality male friends as oposed to female friends - except those who have kept some of their childhood ones....a phenomenon i'm still trying to figure out :o)

cheers(reply to this comment

From Joe H
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 20:48

I hear you frmr, but they've given up so much for their children, why not let them have their false sense of maturity?(reply to this comment
From lochnymph
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 20:42

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
Yes but until you have had a child, there will always be a big part of you, as a female, that is self centered, and superficial.(reply to this comment
From Dani
Wednesday, February 18, 2004, 07:08

Apparently you have contradicted yourself, (as a female of course). By your comments it’s obvious to see that you are neither self-centred nor superficial, good for you. (reply to this comment
From frmrjoyish
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 12:19

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Whatever! You need to get over your self!!!! Would you consider Mother Teresa "self-centered and superficial"????(reply to this comment
From lochnymph
Monday, February 16, 2004, 11:31

sorry, I don't know you personaly, so I shouldn't have comented so generaly. I was just speaking from people I have met. I'm sure you are a wonderful giving person.(reply to this comment
From Nancy
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 13:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I almost always agree with frmrjoyish. She has really good insight in my opinion and always tells it like it is.

Mother Teresa certainly isn't an average woman, though. Yet, I still agree that it doesn't take having a child to make a person compassionate and unselfish.

What having a child does do for those of us already somewhat isolated from our peers because of our upbringing is to further isolate us. At least in my own experience, I was pretty well adjusted and had a large social circle of friends at 28 when I got pregnant. The following two years while I had my son and raised him to a toddler were very, very lonely. I felt like I was starting over. Yet, things came back around. I found some new friends who liked hanging out with me and my son when he was around and not with a nanny.

Having my son also took away all the "free time" I used to enjoy. I had to arrange care for him if I just wanted to got for a run. I hadn't been able to just go to Barnes & Noble and read for a few hours, as I used to in college and grad school to relax, until last month. I'd given that up for two and a half years. I didn't have time or resources. Children do consume our already limited time for ourselves. It takes adjustment and a different attitude towards time. I don't think I'm less selfish because of my son. It's not like I think of my time as my own and I'm sharing it with him. It's our time and I joyfully spend it with him, but it is limited and things are more constrained, especially since I do not have the normal support system of family that most of my peers have.

We are all different from our peers. A lot of us had to work a lot harder for all we have. We have had less resources and support networks. Because of our lack of support networks, the little constraint added to our lives has an exponential effect. But, that doesn't mean there is a difference between those of us with children and without. We are all just at different places in our lives. I think on average though all of us are more compassionate and hard-working than the average person on the street.(reply to this comment

From Hanna_Black
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 04:11

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Not sure if it's a matter of maturity, I think it's more of a difference of priorities in women who have kids and women who don't. I mean, I am all pro-selfishness and thinking about your future and doing everything possible to enable yourself a better life. When you have kids, that changes, and all your efforts go into paving the way for THEIR life to be good. Wether that is (more) mature or not is questionable.(reply to this comment

From venusbutterfly
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 05:12

you're so right, i guess i'm not really in the right state of mind to be trying and express myself at the moment as it never seems to come out just any case, at least for me, the point remains the same...there is some sort of wall, and it's there, what it's made of and how it can be surmounted exactly i don't know.(reply to this comment
From Hanna_Black
Thursday, February 12, 2004, 08:08


Oh, I fully agree that some sort of a wall is there, and I was in no way trying to imply that you didn't express yourself well (which I think you DID) and yes, the point remains the same.(reply to this comment

Thursday, February 12, 2004, 18:18

Can I get all of you pregnant? Please!?!(reply to this comment
From Nick
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 16:34


I tend to agree with you there. I have never fit in with people my own age. Always hang with people that are older. I figured it was because I had a kid and had to start supporting a family early in life and that grew me up.

Either that or I am just a dork..... JK :)(reply to this comment
From Jerseygirl
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 15:38

I'm always impressed by people who are honest and real about things, such as yourself. I can understand exactly what you said about relating to other women especially and the whole self esteem issue. Along the other line (BF) dont give up.I have friends and siblings who have been able to find special people who can understand and love them despite their quirky past. You are an amazing, beautiful woman and I hope you find someone who can recognize that. (reply to this comment

My Stuff

log in here
to post or update your articles


69 user/s currently online

Web Site User Directory
5047 registered users

log out of chatroom

Happy Birthday to demerit   Benz   tammysoprano  

Weekly Poll

What should the weekly poll be changed to?

 The every so often poll.

 The semi-anual poll.

 Whenever the editor gets to it poll.

 The poll you never heard about because you have never looked at previous polls which really means the polls that never got posted.

 The out dated poll.

 The who really gives a crap poll.

View Poll Results

Poll Submitted by cheeks,
September 16, 2008

See Previous Polls

Online Stores

I think, therefore I left

Check out the Official
Moving On Merchandise
. Send in your product ideas

Free Poster: 100 Reasons Why It's Great to be a Systemite

copyright © 2001 - 2009

[terms of use] [privacy policy] [disclaimer] [The Family / Children of God] [contact:] [free speech on the Internet blue ribbon] [About the Trailer Park] [Who Links Here]