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from capturedlily Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 03:19 (Agree/Disagree?) I was molested in this way when I was 11. I often had to face this man because he was my mother's only friend's husband and my mother refused to believe me. As an adult I ran into him in a grocery store after not having seen him for years and he started speaking to me as if we were old friends-ha! Not wanting to make a scene in a public place and having also been ostracized to some degree by mother (and everyone she convinced) as a liar and so at a loss as to what even to say, I answered him rather coldly and then moved on. I have often thought that it would have been a lot better for me if I had let him know how I felt about what he had done to me. It could have been said in a calm and quiet way without making a scene but since it caught me off guard I said nothing. I've never had another opportunity. If I had a chance to do it again I would stand up for myself and say what I needed to say. Do what you need to do to arrive at closure for yourself. Remember that these people are masters of manipulation and will twist your words to make you look bad so have a witness if possible. Take a pocket tape recorder so he can't lie about what you said to turn those you care about against you. I hope this works out well for you. (reply to this comment)

from clark Friday, December 07, 2007 - 09:50 (Agree/Disagree?) I think you should most certainly talk to your sister. I think where you should be careful is how you present it. If it happened to you it may of happened to her and she is somehow justifying it. I woud be careful and try not to place all the blame on him. He is a product of his enviorment which taught him only that, nothing else. Him being a YA back then makes him probably one of the first SGA's in the group. That group got it the worst I think, and would explain why he acted the way he did. He may not even be aware that it was wrong. You need to find out how he feels about these things NOW. Would he consider that ok today? I would present it in a way that was less pointing the finger and more just trying to see where they stand on such issues now. If he cannot admit it was wrong, his fault or not, she needs to stay away and keep any small children away. He and she also will probably switch into defense mode and justify him if they feel they are being attacked. This is your sister and and you'll have her all your life, be gentle with her. (reply to this comment)

From Tester Friday, December 07, 2007, 11:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, be careful how you present this. How you come across will make all the difference in the world. Also, while I am not excusing what this person did, I do agree that people can be the product of their environment and if this was during that time in the cult when the abuse was most rampant and this YA grew up in the cult not knowing anything but what he saw growing up, you do have to consider that at the time he may not have known it was wrong. Again, I am not excusing him. I am just playing Devils advocate. (reply to this comment)

from Hydra Friday, December 07, 2007 - 08:47 (Agree/Disagree?) I've been in the unfortunate predicament of having to inform someone that an SGA they were close to was an abuser. I can tell you from my own experience that this doesn't go over very well. If you tell your sister she will probably at first simply not believe you. Then she will probably ask the abuser. The abuser will deny or downplay and in the end, you will be seen as "the bad guy." In my opinion, regardless, (and especially if there are children or possibly will be children around the abuser) your sister needs to know. You aren't responsible for how your sister reacts or what she does with the information. You are only responsible to not withhold it and for the context in which it is delivered. My two cents. (reply to this comment)

from Vixin Friday, December 07, 2007 - 06:19 (Agree/Disagree?) The only way to break the cycle of abuse is to speak up. If you are still in the group, rock the boat!!! Make your voice heard. You understand, this is a felonious offense, right? This offense, depending upon the jurisdiction, can lead to a conviction and serious time in Club Fed. Exposing, confronting, whatever you may call it, something needs to be done. If children are at risk, it is only your responsibility as a member of society to do something about it. Contrary to popular opinion in TF, touching a child is illegal and can screw that child up for life...I know this, as I am one of the many here who survived such abuse. Speak up...if you feel uncomfortable, call the police in your area. It's wrong! (reply to this comment)

from lotstoforget Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 15:40 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, what can I say, Mia? I hope you like this. I strongly believe there are certain things that are non-issues right from the start. Cornering and fondling by SGA’s in the 80th or 90th in my book definitely falls into that category. (Those SGA‘s, by the way, are the main constituency here now) Just for the record, in the world at large there is a lot of “cornering and fondling“ going on between young folks. None of it ever makes it into the courts, nor should it, really. I know I’m gonna reap some howls here, but you ask for advice and this is mine: Let it rest, Mia! Let your sister do what she wants. You can tell her, at the right moment and time, if you wish, what happened – just matter of factly. But the world is full of horny males, so what’s the news? I doubt your sister is going to be too impressed. Let us focus on the important issues of abuse by true abusers! I know they are now imprisoning people for long periods of time for consensual affairs they had with dependents, as for instance in a few highly publicized teacher/student relationships as of late. They put young people in prison for having had consensual sex with 14 or 15 year olds. That doesn’t necessarily make that course of action right. As a matter of fact, I believe these things are so blown out of proportion, the punishments are so beyond belief, I really can’t quite comprehend this. My gosh, its just folks doing what comes natural. Just as a leveler, the general age of consent in Austria is 14. The age of consent is even down to 13 there, if the partner is not more than three years older. The age of consent in Germany is 14 too, as long as a person over the age of 21. In some other countries it is even 12. US laws, when it comes to sex and alcohol, are so archaic and hypocritical, they really stink. We don’t have to condone all this shit because we had a problematic past or because we happen to live in the US and this stuff fits our agenda. We might just find ourselves in bed with buddies we really may come to hate in the end. In my book it’s just plain wrong, period. Granted, my opinion is not empirical, I’m sure there are others who disagree, mainly Bush’s Republicans and fundamental Christians. Anyway, just my few cents worth of advise, since you ask for it. (reply to this comment)

From Mea Monday, December 10, 2007, 07:19 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah, just to clarify the ages in question (& pretty much just resound what was already said), this happened when I was roughly 5. He must've been between 19 & 22. The other girl was about 3. That's considerably far from the examples you're trying to relate this to. To whomever asked before, no, I'm definitely not still in TF. I'm sure if anyone in the early adulthood age bracket were found fondling, say, kids in a daycare (the most similar relationship to what was set up between us and him) outside of the group he would be strung up and hung by his/the kids' community. Look, lotstoforget, I'm in NO way trying to take away "focus on the important issues", here. Is there some abuse-meter determining who can open up about which experiences here? If so, excuse my missing it. I don't really have any contact with many people who can even slightly relate to the whole TF childhood, so this seems like the best place to get a little moral support & input however less severe than your own it may be. You can go back to your regular programing, obviously, if this offends you. Thanks for the feedback, anyway.(reply to this comment)

From Mea Monday, December 10, 2007, 07:55 (Agree/Disagree?) I just want to add that while, sure, I could bring up what you might see as "important issues" or "real abusers" (or however you put that) it wouldn't even be nearly as relevant to the situation I'm jumping into, here.(reply to this comment)

From cosmogrrl Saturday, December 08, 2007, 11:45 (Agree/Disagree?) Did you perhaps not get that "YC's" stands for "younger children"? In TF, younger children were generally kids under the age of 8. In whose book is it natural to corner and fondle little children?(reply to this comment)

From nikki Saturday, December 08, 2007, 10:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Horny males or not, UNDERAGE or not, cornering and fondling a person in your care, (obviously against her will) is an abuse of power and should never be allowed.(reply to this comment)

From v Friday, December 07, 2007, 01:29 (Agree/Disagree?) Besides what everyone else has already said regarding the seriousness of the act given the ages of the children involved in this specific situation, I would like to state that I find your attitude regarding 'cornering and fondling' between teenagers extremely offensive. 'Cornering and fondling' implies forcing unwanted sexual advances onto someone else and i don't care how similar in age the two persons might be, that is still not an acceptable way to behave. (reply to this comment)

From Vixin Friday, December 07, 2007, 06:22 (Agree/Disagree?) v- I couldn't agree more. I am completely floored by the fact that anyone would put this offense so casually. Offended may be an understatement, given the circumstances.(reply to this comment)

From ErikMagnusLehnsher Thursday, December 06, 2007, 20:38 (Agree/Disagree?) Either you don't understand the age brackets involved here or you're crazy. "YC" stands for young child. The group names probably varied to some degree from country to country but this would generally be the age group just above toddlers...completely defenseless kids that were just learning to read. A "YA" or young adult would have been 18 or over. You're talking about this casually like it's some kind of Genarlow Wilson case where a 17 year old got sentenced to 10 years in jail for child abuse for having consensual sex with a 15 year old girlfriend in Georgia a couple of years ago. Mea sounds like she's describing someone 18 or over with a child between 4-6 years old. You will find ABSOLUTELY no one here who will agree that this was acceptable or no big deal.(reply to this comment)

From Big Sister Thursday, December 06, 2007, 21:32 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree. Someone over 18 fondling a child back then, whether 6 or 12 or whatever age, could still be a dangerous person now. I would definitely keep all children away from this guy. If your sister has children she NEEDS to know what you know. Like you said, your sister can take care of herself but she if she's a mom she is going to need to protect her children. I think you could say to your sister, I'm telling you what I know about this guy because I would want you to tell me if the situation was reversed.(reply to this comment)

From Kelly Thursday, December 06, 2007, 19:46 (Agree/Disagree?) what?? Are you still a cult member? (reply to this comment)

From ? Thursday, December 06, 2007, 16:16 (Agree/Disagree?) In my opinion it isn't at all "normal horny male" behaviour for a YA aged man to fondle YC aged girls. I don't think it's natural male behaviour to feel sexual attraction toward a pre-pubescent child. (reply to this comment)

From afflick Thursday, December 06, 2007, 16:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Not just "in your opinion". It is a serious crime. It is molesting a young child. It is exactly the thing we are rallying against in our lives and within this site. It is not something that should be "forgotten" about or pushed out of one's mind. It is a crime of sexual abuse and there are recourses available. No one should get away with abuse, not even those who were themselves abused. No one is allowed to molest or abuse a child, under ANY conditions. Ever.(reply to this comment)

From I could be wrong but Thursday, December 06, 2007, 16:11 (Agree/Disagree?) from what I gathered from her post, he was a 'YA' (young adult) and she was a 'YC' (younger child). That is a far difference from young people fondling each other imo, or your average horny male. That indicates an inclination for very young kids. But then again, perhaps I interpreted her post wrongly?(reply to this comment)

From LOL! Thursday, December 06, 2007, 16:06 (Agree/Disagree?) if you are talking to me, here is some advice: get the facts straight buddy....i got no "fight" with my sister. (reply to this comment)