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Getting Out : Creeps

Abuse in Australia

from Sydney - Monday, March 06, 2006
accessed 3387 times

Australian abuse...

I'm an ex-member who has been told I'm insane and telling lies for saying that there was abuse here in Australia. People are saying: "Oh it happened in other countries but not Australia!!!

Here's a little of what happened to me. Feel free Aussies to speak up about your abuse.

I am a Sydney ex member who was "bashed" repeatedly with a metal sticks, wood paddles and had my head hit against a brick wall.

My face was rubbed in my urinated sheets almost every morning in front of the whole dorm I slept in. I “was forced” to wear diapers even though I was 8 and older. Paraded around the rest of the children in the home showing them what a big baby I was.

The teachers also made the other children come and watch as they put the diapers on me (NAKED LEGS SPREAD IN THE AIR) to show that “if I was going to let the devil make me act like a baby” they were going to treat me as such.

Often my teachers would make me sleep in my wet dirty sheets for weeks on end, rotting and stinking. Other times I would just make my bed and not tell them I wet it for fear of being beaten further. I use the same moldy rotting mattress for 4 years and had to take it with me to whatever home I was moved to, as it was a waste to give me a new one, and a waste of the Lord's money to wash my sheets so often.

I felt humiliated and did not know what was happening to my body and why this was happening, it wasn’t that I wanted to pee my bed, I was constantly in tears and embarrassed that I was so “disgusting!”

To "teach me a lesson" so that I would stop wetting the bed, they would get the whole home to pray for my “problem”, saying I was being just like Rachel’s kids in the book of Davidito. I was told I was lazy and possessed by the devil as I wet my bed until I was 14.

I was deprived of water after 5pm, forbidden to drink anything between then and bedtime, which was usually at 10. This was supposedly supposed to stop me from wetting my bed. I did not, but even if I was really thirsty I was denied water. (My appendix burst years later as a result.)

Never once did they stop to think that possibly I needed to see a doctor.

And no I didn't have the "faith" to get better as I needed to see a doctor you morons!!!!

I was very small for my age in both height and weight due to never having enough food to eat, as a result because I looked 2-3 years younger then I was, they would constantly put me in the younger classes even though I told them I was older.

If it wasn’t for my mum (she was forced to be the home cook wherever we went, until someone decided that she was being too nice and making too much luxury food “in other words not enough liver and shit MUSH” and demoted her.) and some of my very sneaky resourceful friends I would have never eaten enough food to get by. (One of my friends used to daringly sneak into the survival stockpile stored in this huge garage thing and bring back all kinds of junk that we’d all stay up eating late at night secretly in bed.)

My family was treated like shit as we were partly Asian. Did any of you guys ever notice that is was usually the white members who were home leaders in Australia, while most ethnic members were put in childcare, cleaning, and basically treated like slaves at their beck and call.

The family is a Racist and an elitist cult...they hate jews, blacks, the cripple, the deformed, gays, lesbians, and the mentally Handicapped.

I was then "forced" during the Sydney raids by the leaders at the time to tell in the Sydney legal court case that my bed-wetting was a result of traumatic stress caused by being taken from my home, and that it only started after I was taken away.

As a result, I was a key person in the family in Sydney having a strong case against the government that we children were damaged by the raids, and then what happen? When the court case money gets divided up Paul and Joy take the largest cut for their kids and family leaving me with pretty much nothing! ASSHOLES!

After leaving when I was 16, over four years ago, after going to the doctors and receiving care I have been told that I have a medical problem which was the reason for my bed wetting (go figure!!! I knew I wasn’t demon possessed, hahaha) and that I should have had medical attention years and years ago, and that as a result of lack of medical attention I have on-going medical problems with my liver, gallbladder and bladder.


PAUL and JOY HARTINGTON- take a bow, they may not have directly abused me, but as the top leaders in Australia for many years they should still be held accountable, regardless of whether it was their "their little puppets" or whatever doing the actual abuse.

Uncle Matt, Simon, Steven, Big John (the list will get bigger as I remember peoples names) are other abusers.

I'd name more names but being young and with family people changing their names at least 10 times a year it's hard to remember.

If anyone can think of any names of Aussie abusers let me know.


oh I found this clipping from a old I thought I'd ad it sydney newspaper

Sydney Morning Herald/1999-04-01

Police acted lawlessly when they raided houses belonging to the Children of God sect in 1992 and seized nearly 60 girls and boys from their homes in the early morning.
The NSW Supreme Court found the children were entitled to seek damages from the NSW Government because search warrants used in the raids were worthless. (SO EVEN THO THERE WAS ABUSE... WE CAUGHT THEM OUT ON A ONE TINY MISTAKE...WRONG WARRENT, WHICH RESULTED IN US WINNING)

As a result, police and community services were trespassing when they broke into the homes in Cherrybrook, Kellyville and Glenhaven and "rounded up" 57 children, aged between 22 months and 16, on May 15, 1992.

Outside the court, solicitor Mr Greg Walsh called on the Attorney-General, Mr Shaw, to settle the case immediately, saying the children had been through enough.

"They were branded when they were taken as having been sexually abused, each and every one of them. That's something which is ringing in their ears today as it was then, and they want the matter resolved and they want justice to take place," he said. (HAHAHAHA BIG JOKE...)

Many of the children continued to wet their beds (ME, BUT NOT BECAUSE OF THE RAIDS...PFFFFF), have nightmares and live in fear the incident could happen again, he said.

The issue remains complex, with several matters still to be examined in Supreme Court proceedings, but the verdict on the raids was final, Mr Walsh said.

Police and DOCS officers involved in the raids claimed the children were being physically and sexually abused by the sect, formerly known as the Children of God, now called The Family.

The sect, a fundamentalist Christian group, denied the allegations.

The children argued in court they were illegally and unlawfully arrested and falsely imprisoned. (WE WERE NICELY COACHED...)

During the raids they were told they were going on a trip, but were instead taken to State institutions where they were detained for six days until court proceedings ruled they could return home.

Reader's comments on this article

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from Alice Brown
Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 22:59

I have been seaching for people who knew my father Russell Brown (probably went via a different name) he was born in VIC and abused me when I was young and still preaches in the familys way of 'love' and has old friends etc who are still part of his 'ways' and they all knew each other many years back when they were young hippies. I did not have much contact with the family and it seems more like groups who still preached some of their ways but did not deal as directly as before. Mum hated it and always tried to get out. I want to know if he has abused anyone else as I have taken him to court but he got a suspended senta e coz he had a clean record and is 'trying to clean his act up (I KNOW THAT HE HASN'T!) but if anyone else speaks out, goes to court and he gets guilty well he is spending his sorry life behind bars where he and all the others belong!
(reply to this comment)
From neez
Monday, December 17, 2007, 00:16

Copy/paste this as a new article. It will just get lost here.(reply to this comment
from bohostudios
Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 23:47


Hi, My name Is Stephan. I'm loooking for ex members of the COG, to interview for new Australian doco On the Cult. If u can Help me in any way that would be Great... Thankyou

contact me at
(reply to this comment)

from Girl Child
Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 05:25


I am interested in contact with any other survivors who were exposed to TF between 1975-1983 in NSW. I would also like to know more re rituals that included sexual abuse and cult leaders around this time and area. Is Australia Day significant to anyone out there? What were the common practices regarding children that were born to children in the TF, ie very underage children? I would appreciate any info as for years I have been chasing rumour and ineuendo.

(reply to this comment)

From Rain Child
Wednesday, January 03, 2007, 05:33

Why is it that particular time period and place? Just curious, because I know a lot of the Australian second generationers, and there were very few children in Australia during those years, most of what were here would have been babies.

What does Australia day have to do with it?

Children born to very underaged mothers were cared for like the rest of the kids- in their groups. I only know of a couple cases like that, they were in Japan toward the end of the nineties, and those families had midwives who were favourable to The Family deliver the babies to try and keep it relatively low-key. But they were at least fifteen.

During the dates you mentioned, there were no second-generationers old enough to have babies.(reply to this comment
From bohostudios
Sunday, October 28, 2007, 23:47


Hi, My name Is Stephan. I'm loooking for ex members of the COG, to interview for new Australian doco On the Cult. If u can Help me in any way that would be Great... Thankyou

contact me at to this comment

From rainy
Tuesday, October 30, 2007, 01:23

I can't give you contact details of my friends. I can tell you all the info you want about life growing up in The Family in Australia, but I do not want to be named and I do not want to appear in your movie. Contact Sydney (the author of this article) through her profile and ask her if she's interested. I know she was keen to do something like that.(reply to this comment
from alacey1981
Sunday, June 04, 2006 - 06:51

I'm disgusted by groups such as this. They may claim to be fundamentalist but they are not based on the Bible or the words of Christ.

Racism was not taught by Jesus, nor was sex with infinate partners. The Bible teaches that sex as God intends it is for marriage.

Disobedience to God is a sin. Jesus said "It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around the neck than to face the punishment in store for harming one of these little ones" Lk 17:2. They have taken the truth of God, and swapped it for a lie. Read 2 Thesselonians 2, and the book of Jude, you'll be surprised to find that these apostates are actually predicted.

They are told in 1 Cor 6:9-10
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor *homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

Which group would you say The Family belong to - are they sanctified and washed or are they still in their sin. God has prepared a stronger judgement for those who lead him astray. Hebrews 6:4-6 "For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame."

These pigs, if they were ever saved have put Christ up to shame.

2 Peter 2:1 " But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

God will deal with these guys. Please come check out my myspace page. This is the first time I've come onto moving on. He's told us these bastards are coming and the best we can do is to seek the truth of the Bible for ourselves.


I'd love to get to know you. I'd love to talk to you about who Jesus is.

I'm against all cults, I have seen many friends leave the Jehovah's Witnesses and I hope to see many more leave all cults and come to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
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From roughneck
Sunday, June 04, 2006, 09:19

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Alacey1981, please, please, please, (PLEASE!) stop with the witnessing already. I'd be willing to wager that even the most vocal atheists among us can still quote your holy book better than you can. Read this to mean that if for some reason we don't believe the same as you do, it's for a jolly good reason.

Secondly: You don't sound like an ex-fam kid -in fact, you sound like an ex Jehovah's Witness to me. If you read FAQ #1 at it's explicitly stated that " was created for people born and/or raised in the religious group known as The Children of God or The Family". In other words, if you aren't in fact a/an (ex) second-generation COG/TFI, then kindly take a backseat on this site, mkay? To reiterate: if you can't stop your witnessing-slash-bloghawking, kindly FOAD, OK? Thanks. :)

Of course, if you are an ex-second gen, I continue to support your right to post whatever lunacy you see fit. :P

(reply to this comment
From JP200
Saturday, January 19, 2008, 11:46

LOL..awesome response..I guess whoever the preacher was has no idea that most the people on this site have a 10x better knowledge of verses etc, than he/she does.(reply to this comment
From vixen
Sunday, June 04, 2006, 10:20


Hello there roughie. Haven't seen you in a while... Want to join me in the chat fpr a bit?

(reply to this comment

From vixen
Sunday, June 04, 2006, 10:22


Sigh, never mind. Looks like I will have missed you by now (unless you happen to lurk for hours at a time, that is). Hope you and your wifey are well, and the kiddo too. :-)

(reply to this comment

from ESJ
Friday, March 17, 2006 - 23:37


Go Sydney!

(I've been 'off line' for some time because I'm very busily involved in another full time 'hands-on' project at present with very little time to chat on the Net. This is just a quick visit to try to catch up on the latest developments here).

It makes me very sad to hear your story, Sydney, but it is also very good to finally hear from an Australian ex SG who is really telling it like it was. For years I spoke out just knowing in my heart that a lot of other kids besides my own had been and were being abused in TF here in Oz (emotionally, physically and psychologicly, if not sexually) and it was very difficult because TF leaders were making the kids go on TV and deny everything. So its good that its finally all coming out now.

It is true that a lot of ex SG's here in Oz are still under TF's spell. Some are working as strippers (FFers??) and in other questionable 'careers' that young adults who were abused as children often tend to end up working in, which again says something for TF's so-called 'wholesome' upbringing.

I bet if you guys start closing the net on the Hartingdons, they'll try to flee the country - which in itself would be a very telling admission of guilt. - But I encourage you guys to unite and act asap. Get some legal advice and do something, even if its just a media campaign. The legal system always acts when there's enough media coverage of a problem that they would be seen to be shirking their responsibiltiy if they didn't.

It would be important to contact the journalist Col Allison who interviewed the Hartingdon's and demand that he now tell the real story and not just a sanitized version from the H's.

(reply to this comment)

from g-truth
Friday, March 17, 2006 - 08:28

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I am a non-fam, who has learned of this cult through falling in love with an ex-fam and am here to learn and understand all I can about this heinous cult. I feel for you. No child should ever have to experience what you experienced. I salute your courage in fighting for justice through your words and actions here.
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From welcome
Saturday, March 18, 2006, 08:53

Thanks for your support the kind words, good luck to you too.(reply to this comment
Monday, March 13, 2006 - 20:13

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Kylie and Lisa I was on the New Zealand and Australian programs.Just curious are you calling me a liar?Because that was a toned down version of what i experienced.Actually all of the programs since Rickys death that i have watched have been fairly toned down compared to some of what i have witnessed or experienced.Do you think Sara or daniel Spiced their stories up aswell?I will sit any test on this planet to prove what i say is the truth.Just because the court case in Australia wasn't won by docs don't assume nothing happened in the room next to yours.The Australian raids were a mistake from the start the truth never came out you should talk to others that were not as fortunate as you .Joey Sydney and Sean are saying that Paul Hartington was an abuser are they sensationalising? I wasn't abused in all homes either by every shepherd sometimes i was teachers pet but rarely i have to thank the couple of older girls who saved me from harms way on several occasions for that.I would actually like all of us to have a public open discussion Ex and current family invited no solicitors with cover up stories EG;hell my ex husband has denied even being in the group , just you me current leaders yours friends and partners anyone that wants the truth.I actually hated going on tv but i have no choice at this moment in time it is the only way to present just some of the facts.But i will keep fighting even through the press if i have to untill my son is out of harms way that is what i must do as a mother.
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From Sydney
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 06:58

No hun I'm not calling you a lier.... I am fully backing you up with that we were abused.... I'm sorry If in anyway my article implied that. I know paul and joy are abusers...fuck they are the biggest ones.... please let me know which part of my article was offensive to I've heard about your case and "my heart goes out to you..." (I know that sounds corny... but anyways...) (reply to this comment
From Just Curious
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 23:07

Is the Matt you refer to in your article an Aussie or a New Zelander? (reply to this comment
From Sydney
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 07:10

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
oooop's sorry nat... I thot the post about calling you a lier was directed at me... heheh late night typing....anyways ignore those two if they are calling you liers. you know the truth and thats all that matters(reply to this comment
From Kylie
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 04:50

I'm sorry, am I missing something? how do you know me? I was only commenting on an article from The Sydney Morning Herald, it was written in 94 and I simply said I felt it was accurate. I do not understand how I seem to have offended someone by saying that, or even whom I offended or why. If someone thinks that article was inaccurate, please enlighten me as to why and I may agree with you. I'm not trying to start fights here, I thought you must have me mixed up with someone else, but since you've used my real name, I assume you know me. If so, hello.

I would never say anyone on here was lying, as you say, I don't know their stories, and these things are not something anyone would want to lie about anyhow. I don't think I've said anything to belittle anyone else's pain. As for the programme you mentioned, I haven't seen it, I don't know what the content is. I'm sorry you seem to be in a lot of pain, but it feels like you're just looking for someone to be angry with. Well, please don't make it me, if you don't mind. I enjoy coming on here and having a chat, but it sucks feeling that you're under attack when you can't even figure out why.

I did see The one on DR Phil which aired recently, and agreed heartily with it, if that's any help. I don't understand some of what you've said in your comment, but I assume that's because I don't know the details. I've also sent sympathy to Sydney when I heard her horrific story. I don't know why I feel like I'm defending myself here, I guess I'm trying to figure out why you're singling me out...(reply to this comment
From lisa
Monday, March 13, 2006, 23:35


Just curious, what about what I've said makes people assume I'm for the family and don't beleve that abuse happened? I must be missing something because all I can see is me saying there was abuse. What I was annoyed with was people who attack other peoples opions. Not being able to say what you think and have people respect your opinon as your opinon no matter what it is or if they agree was something that drove me nuts in the family and it drives me just as nuts here. Thats what I wanted to say, it had nothing to do with the family.

My not thinking the recent Tv coverege was fair, was not because of what was said about the family I just didn't think it was very well laid out or edited, I didn't think it did either side justice. Thats besides the whole issue of them using fotage of people without permison. (reply to this comment

Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 01:08

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(

Your opinion is based on what you were involved in not what every other child experienced, my story is mine not yours ,sydney's is hers etc etc if you want an opinion like you have your invited to veiw the proof i have, dont just stand back and state sensationalism i invite any and all to talk face to face about this .I dont own one of the two news networks in Australia so i cannot lay out or edit the show there was much more that i wish was aired but it didnt put the Australian leaders in a good light at all.The footage of "Aussie girl"I had never seen before that show i had no part in that going to air that is the shows producers job.You are intitled to an opinion but if you are saying what i have said in any of the media is sensationalism or lies,then dont be surprised if i want to set things straight.I really would like to talk to both you and your sister in person there are a couple of survivors i think you need to meet, their life in TF stories are much worse than mine.(reply to this comment

From lisa
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 13:39


What I disliked about the show was not that I thought the accounts of abuse, where exaturated or lies I just dislike the fact that the media always concentrates on abuse, and ignores everything else. Like physicl abuse, Mental, spritual etc. Untill I actually start saying people are liars ( and beleave me I will tell them to their face) could everyone stop reading it into what I say.

As for my wanting proof and specific acusations, its simply because if you just randamly say 'oh there was heeps of abuse in the family', people can discount you very easily. If however you state where when and who its stands up better.

I get that you had no control over the show, and I never considered you to be to blame for that, I was only ever annoyed with the media.( and people that don't let people have their own opinon)

As far as I'm aware I never commented on you or your situation, if theres one thing I've learned you can never really know whats going on even with the people right next to you. Having been in the situation of desperatly trying to get people to beleave me while I was being abused I am the last person to ever discount someone elses opinon.

Please feel free to write me I always like talking to other ex-members, though as far as bad life stories I've heard enough to last me for awhile(reply to this comment

From Sydney
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 07:05

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Hey Nat... sorry that it seems like people are picking on you for going on TV.... it took a lot of courge to do that!! and any idiots who think you had anything to do with the way the show ended being presented is an idiot!!! TV stations do whatever they want with stuff once they are given information. I know your ex wako husband from when I was a child so feel free to email me if you want...

Cheers hun(reply to this comment

From Rain Child
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 06:27

Agreed, so what are we 'fighting' about?(reply to this comment
from Sydney
Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 04:23

read this peace of shitt....soooo funny

(reply to this comment)
From ESJ
Friday, March 17, 2006, 23:09

Every time I read or hear the utter bold-faced lies, denials and decietfulness of Paul and Joy Hartingdon it makes me sick to my stomach. It won't matter where in the world that pair 'flee' to, they have so much 'bad karma' coming to them,it will all catch up with them soon, and then no amount of pretense and smiling deception is going to save them. (reply to this comment
From Rain Child
Thursday, March 09, 2006, 04:52

I actually thought that was very fair, balanced, and well written. That's the way I remember it. (apart from the bit about The Family disassociating from the COG in 1978)(reply to this comment
From Sydney
Thursday, March 09, 2006, 19:37

that was the bit I was Referring to-The Family disassociating from the COG in 1978)
(reply to this comment
From helloo
Thursday, March 09, 2006, 21:42

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(

Not sure if RC is in or out dont think she knows either.(reply to this comment

From lisa
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 21:48

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
How does thinking that a journalist (outside ‘impartial observer') wrote a well thought out fair piece, mean that you are confused about whether your in the family or not? For that matter what does that mean? Are you meaning literally, trying to imply she is somehow geographically disoriented? Or are you saying that should you have any approach to anything even remotely connected to the family other then extreme hatred and anger you are somehow for child abuse? (reply to this comment
From Sydney
Monday, March 13, 2006, 18:43

i wasn't making a crack at the person who wrote it, just showing examples of why we won the court case(reply to this comment
From OMG
Sunday, March 12, 2006, 03:15

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(

Every time someone has dirt on someone or something that happened or is happening in Aus the two of you go tag team give it a break.You know you want to say it go ahead wait i will say it for you ,Nothing ever happened i never witnessed any child abuse.Did you call the recent programs in aus about TF well thought out and fair?(reply to this comment

From Rain Child
Monday, March 13, 2006, 06:05

If you want to know what I think is well thought out and fair, and what I back 100%, It's the judgement of Lord justice Ward, and James Penn's statement.(reply to this comment
From Rain Child
Monday, March 13, 2006, 03:49

I don't remember tag teaming- Lisa, have we ever commented on each other's posts before? This is the first time as far as I know. What, because we're sisters (With differing points of view btw) we shouldn't comment on eachother's posts? It's not like we live together, and it's nice to see what the other one has to say. I think this was the first time one of us has stood up for the other one's point. But if you want to see tag-teaming, we can give you tag teaming...Sisters, sisters, never were there such devoted sisters...(reply to this comment
From Rain Child
Monday, March 13, 2006, 03:51

PS, who are you?(reply to this comment
From lisa
Monday, March 13, 2006, 00:14

Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

See thats exactlly what I'm talking about. I experianced child abuse in the family I saw child abuse in the family, I think alot of people in the family need to be brought to justice, why the fuck do you think I'm here? I don't however agree with every ex-member, I don't agree that all family mambers are complete monsters, I don't think it's all clearly defined and I don't think that one should be attacked and put down and abused simply because they have an opinon that differs from yours,by doing that you have become the very thing you so hate. And no I didn't think the recent programs where well thought out and fair.

(reply to this comment

From Rain Child
Saturday, March 11, 2006, 02:09

Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 2.5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, look at all those thumbs! That's a lot of people who agree that I don't know whether I'm in the Family or not... fortunately for me, I no longer have to worry about what others think...Freedom is great, isn't it?(reply to this comment
from Sydney Too
Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 15:38


Dont worry my sweet. You will be avenged! And don't be so sure about the sexual abuse in Australia. From what I've heard recently it was as bad if not worse than anywhere else. Especially in Melbourne. Does anyone know Greek Paul? I'd like to hear from anyone that had anything to do with this man or knows his legal name or previous bible names. These monsters have it coming don't you worry.
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From Sydney
Wednesday, March 08, 2006, 16:58

I remember Greek paul... I think our family lived with him when I was like 2-3yrs old... in Melbourne... no idea where he is now...or what his legal name is though.(reply to this comment
from Sydney
Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 19:50

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Thanks guys for all your responses

I would love to take action against the leaders here "Paul and Joy" but they are a very slippery pair... I want to gather a much as I can against them before I would even consider doing it... they pretend that they aren't/and haven't been the Australia leaders and because there seems to be a lack of younger people like me willing to say something they dismiss it all as either "something that happened in the past" or "lies"

(sadly a lot of the young people in Australia who have left in Sydney since 1998 and onwards have either rejoined finding it to hard to cope out in the world, or are still friendly with the family)

They (the leaders) have been "pretty clever" with covering up their involvement in direct abuse doing the typical family "oh that person isn't in the family anymore..." or "we had no knowledge about it"

Because Australia is so far removed from the rest of the world... it was supposedly suppose to be one of the more lest strict and relaxed countries which I suppose in "FT' standards it was.

"We were real slackers sliding back into the system!” or so Jeff and Sweetie would tell the homes here on their little visits.

However, just because we did not have as many of the “sexual abuse problems” (either that or we have been more quiet about them, I do not know) the sexual abuse that has happened to many individuals who were in the family living in other countries especially the Asian ones. Did not mean abuse did not happen here at all...

Mental abuse, brain washing, humiliation, psychical abuse, and neglect... are just as destroying as sexual abuse to a child, just in different ways...

The family is always so quick to jump to its defense saying that we "don't abuse our kids" I'd like to know what the families official "take" on what the words "child abuse" mean

And yes the family has used the Australian raids as a victory banner…a proclamation to the world that “we are just a happy loving Christian group” saying “look we won…if there was abuse, we wouldn’t have won… they even wrote that ridiculous “victory in Babylon series based on it…” .

When the series came out even some of the most pious of us children who had been in the raids had a bit of a giggle of how that hammed up our stand and witness against the social workers who were caring for us while we were in custody.

How we stood up for our beliefs! "Hahahahah... bullshitt!" I was one of the many kids who were saying “pass me that white sugar etc…and fully used the situation to our advantage…!

"We were thrilled with the toys and stuff we were given" and only started to kick up a stink when we eventually “like all kids do” got bored and wanted to see our parents as we missed them.

For the most partly we were running around playing with toys….playing with fake guns they gave us (cap guns) making a huge mess of things. Throwing stuff around hitting each-other goofing off watching cartoons reading worldly magazines… being that most of us had never had sugar products before we were like a pack of kids with ADD who had just drank a solution of three cups of white sugar dissolved in cordial ….hyper!!!

The only true part about it was that we did miss our individual parents (at least those of us who had nice ones like me) but we certainly did not miss our teachers, leaders etc…, and the family food.

Of course, we were a little scared and shocked at the rude early morning wake up call when the police came to the door…although none of the ones who came in my room were wearing police uniforms so it was not actually too scary.

Now as an adult looking back at the situation, these people were not the enemy we "were told" (although some were horrible during the was like the pot calling the kettle black...lose/lose situation) they were, but were only acting on us “kids” behalf to serious allegations that "had been made."

They really did have good reason to believe we “were being abused.” The way they went about it was wrong in raiding the homes; which later on proved the downfall in their case against us. Sadly, though the allegations were not the made up lies they “were made out” to be for the media…they just did not have enough evidence to prove it.

The whole thing was a big legal mess, if you were to have said you were abused you would have been put in foster care and not seen your parents again…but to say you were not would save the family and you would be being a “real solider for Jesus!”

That was your life and your reason for living, why you were born into such a privileged elite group! "Plus" you would earn extra stars on your crown that you would get to wear when you got to heaven… What little girl "wouldn’t" want extra sparkly stars for her princess crown when she got to heaven? Because remember Jesus was coming back and the end time was going to happen before the year 2000 (what a joke!!)

Most of us did not even realize we were even being abused, to us abuse was such a normal part of our lives that many of us never fully began to understand the extent of it until leaving the family or as we have got older.

I will be quick to say though this was only one of the detention places the family children were "taken". I am only speaking about what I saw and what happened in my situation. We (the children from the homes in Sydney) were “split up” over a few different detention places…and I am aware about how bad of a time the other family children got it when taken away in other countries and in Melbourne, so I’m not trying to mock your experiences just telling mine.

In Sydney, it was not really the case…. There were only three people that I personally know of that were genuine in their trauma from the raids…

Two of them were my siblings one who was only two ½ at the time and released after two days, days before the rest of us. The other my brother who was born seriously mentally impaired …and was not able to be cared for properly by the DOC’s (department of community services, they people we were given into care to during the raids) the other I won’t mention as it’s none of my business as he’s not a relative

However, when it came to the court cases the leaders decided that they were not going to include those two siblings in the court case even though they both had probably the best valid cases…. They were worried that as a class action, they would get the larger cuts… and of course, the leaders did not want that to happen… they wanted all the money and the publicity on themselves…and their children. If my sibling’s cases were the focus in the media…then my parents would be more of a focus… and my parents were “good enough examples of true family soldiers!!!” and were considered bad apples or whatever.

Chastised for having rotten apple children... and clearly they were not right with the lord and he was trying to teach them leasons as they not only had a child who wet the bed but a child who was brain damaged…(another abomanation in David Bergs eyes)god was trying to teach and mold them quite obviously…

(I will be writing my version of victory in Babylon properly later…)
In addition, when you leave… now they are like “you’re just saying that cause you are bitter and a…what’s that new name they call us??? Apostate…or have they come up with a new one now?? It’s hard to keep up with the names and acronyms that come out.” Anyways then its like “if this all really happened why you didn’t say something while you were in the family!! (as if that proves it’s just bitter ex-members making up stuff now that we’ve left) It is like “oh gee gosh…well let’s count some of the reasons why not to grumble why don't we!”

(1) Everyone else around me seemed to be “getting with the program” so it must be ME!? I must be wrong in my critical thoughts and feelings towards my “loving warm family!” I was told it was Satan (and his demons) sitting on my shoulder whispering to me these discouraging thoughts and negativity…you see it in the movies all the time, children having imaginary invisible friends. (man… me and my invisible friend Satan were daily companions back then…I was gutted when I later found out he was a figment of someone else’s imagination…and was those thoughts were actually my own sound logic)
(2) If I had have been old enough when they were still on I’d been shipped off to a victor camp….thankfully I was born in 1985
(3) For complaining about the food I could not stomach I might have been forced to sit in front of it until it molded (more on that story it is a good one, I promise )
(4) I might have been banned from all family get together any activities and “fun stuff” (witnessing…hooray!!!)…kicked off the singing team…which was a real treat back then as it was some of the only times you were pretty much "let off" the family compound and got to eat food not cooked in a family home.
(5) Would have been "told "to get the victory after being beaten and made to read the numerous letters “grandpa” wrote on bed-wetting and then write what lessons I learned from reading them in no less then ten pages… (He really had it in for bed wetter! In addition, boy was he was an expert on the subject (NOT), if you compile all the letters he wrote on them it makes one hefty book!)
(6) Have my nice things taken off me oh wait that happened!!! My first bike was stolen off me for the “home” only for it to be given to some leader’s kid in a different home (know it’s trivial to be cranky about stuff like this…but I’ve been quiet since leaving the family and haven’t made a peep until posting yesterday so I’m going to rant god dammit!!!.
(7) Complained I was hungry…you got your bum probed because you must have worms or something “that’s” why you were always hungry!!!
(8) Have a little sign clipped to my shirt saying I am not "allowed" to talk to you so please do not talk to me…
(9) For complaining to get undressed in a room with some of the adult uncles in it…with my sisters… being "pulled" aside by the hair and "told" that we were “going to turn out to be sluttty systemites” the way we were heading.
(10) Be forbidden from socializing with young teens your age (so that you did not “drag them down with you!”) Told that if I said if I made up lies that I was being abused that I would be taken away from my family and never see them again (this was during the court case)
(11) Demerits, demerits, demerits, need I say more…

Even if I am never able to take them to court and see them jailed or sued... I'm going to ensure I get compensation for the damages cause...I am now 20...nearly 21
I have no proper education and am so far behind that I don't know if I could ever go back and do high school (my schooling level is that of an Australian 10yr) which means If I wanted to go back and do it would take me 8 years. Wow I’d be nearly 30 by the time I finish high school!!!!

Thankly I've so far managed to get by in the outside world for over four years now...and am doing much better then I had ever hoped (although it's been pretty lonely)

I’m a very resourceful girl and very talented in all things creative and art related. (lucky for me…they are the only careers you don’t need a high school education to get entry into University. Once you turn 21 in Australia you can get mature age entry into Uni without have a UAI score) Man I would have been screwed had I been of a less fortunate countries citizenship…how much would that suck!!!

I have however always had a way with writing (must of been all the practice I had with those confessions I was forced to write as a child), although my grammar and spelling still needs work since I never learnt those things throughout my “family education”

I have been pursuing a career as a writer. I’ve also started collecting information and dirt to write a book that will "hopefully" help destroy “The Family” here in Australia…partly because I am vindictive and it would put a big smile on my face (sorry guys I’m honest) partly because juicy stuff like this sells and money is the least I "am owed" for my abuse!!! Plus I think it will be a good part of a healing process and if it’s good enough…maybe I’ll hopefully become reference book people can use when studying about cults or a warning to anyone who’s thinking of joining one.

So anyone who doesn’t mind me using stories or has any juicy stuff to tell… please feel free to send it to me… I won’t be naming peoples names in it at all except people except leaders and guilty parties but no victims (us) and it’s going to be more of a study case resource book then anything else.

(reply to this comment)

From Haunted
Thursday, March 09, 2006, 14:34

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
My little sister was also removed from her home by child services during the Australia riads. She's said many times to me that this was one of thes best times of her life and that it convinced her that she did not belong in the group and that there was a different way that children should be raised. My dad saw this as well and immdiately after everything was done with the courts, he left with his wife and their children!(reply to this comment
from Guccigirl
Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 16:12

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

It took a lot of courage for you to write about your experience in the TF. Thank you for speaking out
(reply to this comment)

from gaijin
Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 15:31

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I have never been in the Family, but as an Australian I remember the raids of the Family homes on TV, and I also remember that for years people who suspected what went on in the Family had to deal with the fact that the Family WON in that whole situation. The Australian case has been used by adult Family members in other countries to "prove" that the Family was a wonderful environment for children.

What could outsiders say when psychiatrists concluded that children IN the Fmaily were happier and more well adjusted than those in the community and were traumatized by the raids.

The Family won big time there financially, but also have used the Aussie raids and the conclusions as PR ever since.

So, its easy for me to say as it takes no courage on my part, but I really wish you well, and HOPE that you go for it.

If you can, go get your lawyers and make as much noise as you can! You deserve justice! Absolutely! I feel terrible as an Aussie that this all happened in my country. Makes our legal system look hopeless doesn't it?

At the VERY least, the top leaders need to be exposed, and people in Australia need to know the final truth about what happened. Also, please remember that it will have worldwide implications.

Like I said, I hope that you go for it, and others like you can join. The more people who were children at that time who go public, the better!

It all raises the issue of how amazing it is that in so many places, so many officials were basically tricked by well trained children. Pretty amazing! Looks like social workers and psychologists need special training in how to deal with children in organizations who are trained how to answer.
(reply to this comment)
From lisa
Tuesday, March 14, 2006, 13:43

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
This is something I have always wondered about, how the hell did the shrinks manage to miss how fucked up most of us where, I mean besides the coaching, how did the not see through that?(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Tuesday, March 07, 2006, 15:42

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
It will not doubt be suggested by the Family that your claims of abuse are false or at the very least, grossly exaggerated.

If you only suffered a fraction of what you have written, your story needs to be told.

And your claim that

"was then "forced" during the Sydney raids by the leaders at the time to tell in the Sydney legal court case that my bed-wetting was a result of traumatic stress caused by being taken from my home, and that it only started after I was taken away."

is enough indictment on the Family. Please, don't give up!(reply to this comment
from solemn
Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 10:48

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
My daughter wet her bed almost every night up to age seven. Poor thing she felt horrible. We tried letting her have only sips of water before bed, waking her up at 2:00 in the morning to have her use the bathroom, nothing worked. One day a doctor told me not to let her take a bath anymore. After four days she stopped wetting her bed has never wet her bed since. Her urinary tract was sensitive and became inflamed because of the bath water. How horrible to treat a childlike that. You must have felt bad enough about yourself without the ridicule and antagonism. I can’t even imagine treating my daughter in such a manner. I hope you find, or have found, the dignity that was stolen from you as a child.
(reply to this comment)
from Phoenixkidd
Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 10:15

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Your story is absolutely heartbreaking! It so typifies the type of treatment and abuse children who had physical or ever so slightly "abnormal" tendencies, were subjected to. I remember so many kids being prayed for, or in some cases, "exorcisms" to try to get rid of evil spirits. The cult took everything so metephorically and spiritually instead of trying to look at physical causes for symptoms. Appendix cases were big problems in Japan, and it obviously resulted from children being fed too much processed food that contains sodium and MSG and not enough water. Also the asthma attacks were probably due to unsanitary conditions and living in such old houses with bad ventilation. There are so many things we take for granted in America that we had to deal with on a constant basis.

At least I was lucky enough not to have many physical ailments and got all my sicknesses out of the way in early childhood. The other day I was sick because of overwork and stress and I was shocked. My immune system is so strong from having been sick so many times when I grew up in a 3rd world country. But I feel for you alot and hope you get vindication!! Perhaps you could sue the former leadership in Australia, for benefiting from your suffering.
(reply to this comment)

from appalled
Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 07:12

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I am so sorry for how you were treated and then forced to defend your abusers. Have you contacted the lawyers preparing a civil suit against the Family?
(reply to this comment)

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