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Getting Out : Creeps

TF in Japan

from gaijin - Wednesday, November 30, 2005
accessed 2874 times

Japan experience

Thank you to everyone who contributed or contacted me by email.

Until coming to this site, I didn't know much about COG, the Family or David Berg.

Now I know enough to be better able to talk to people in the Family, and also to those who say they were once in it, but perhaps are still secretly members.

I am sorry for any confusing posts. This was my first time to use an internet bulletin board and so I made many typing, grammatical and other mistakes which made my posts unclear.
I also don't communicate much in English anymore. Anyone reading anything I wrote could be forgiven for thinking English is my second language, but it is not. My Japanese is bad, and my English has deteriorated. Some people who have lived overseas may understand. *laugh*

I wish anyone who has ever been associated with the Family the best. As a person who has been in church ministry in the past, I feel now that both the churches and government institutions have not done enough to both prevent the spread of the Family, or to help those who have suffered as a result of its activities and teachings. I hope and pray that I could do something from now on. I am open to suggestions.


The fact is that outsiders simply didn't know what the Family was about. I had no idea of how bad life was for children.

This website and others go a long way to rectify that.

I live in Japan, and can be contacted by the email address given.

God bless you and don't give up.








Reader's comments on this article

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from to gaijin
Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 01:21

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
What can you do to help? Do you know any lawyers or politicians that would be prepared to challenge the laws regarding the statute of limitations for child abuse? That would be helpful.

The problem is that when we were kids we had no idea that the adults could go to jail for what they were doing to us. We were taught to believe that any negative attention from the outside world was persecution. Couple that with the belief that Armageddon was around the corner and police were future end time soldiers who would torture us to death if we did not renounce Jesus. So basically you have children who are more terrified of the only people that can help them then their abusers. When we got out we were too busy trying to survive, and trying to forget where we were from, to consider taking action. And now that we are ready to face them, the statute of limitations prevents us.

Can you convince your current friends in TF to cough up the legal names of known abusers so that they can be prosecuted, or at the very least be put on a watch list of sexual offenders so that other children are kept away from them? For the most part everyone in TF knows who these people are. They continue to protect these pedophiles so that their organization is not implicated in further scandal. The top leaders are, for the most part, all guilty of sexual relations with minors (see xfamily.org). The expendable pedophiles are excommunicated, which basically means that these abusers are free to abuse children outside TF communities. The bottom line is that they (current members) still do not believe that there is fault with The Law of Love.

Perhaps you could start by helping TF members to see the hypocrisy of Family Care Foundation and the various charity organizations they have invented to white wash their reputation. Those same people who abused their children (or allowed other to), who denied their children of an education, who denied their children basic human rights...how dare they claim to be a charity organization. When we left the group we had no help, no support. All we got were curses and tales of the doom and demise that awaited us. Posing as a charity organization is the most insulting thing they could possibly do. But trying to make brainwashed zombie's understand this is next to impossible.

The best thing you could do would to help bring awareness to the topic and expose TF whenever they pop up. Write your friends and family, you would be surprised how many people have donated to their charities. Let organizations that are affiliated with them know who they really are. Good luck and thanks for caring.
(reply to this comment)
from Phoenixkidd
Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 18:10

(Agree/Disagree?)
Never got your email Gaijin, can you send again? Now you got me curious
(reply to this comment)
from Bones
Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 13:20

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I would be very suspicious of any anonymous person requesting any personal information off the board. Even knowing your email address someone could attain a certain amount of personal info on you (profile). Gaijin doesnt seem to forthcoming regarding his/her motives or background here.
(reply to this comment)
From gaijin
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 14:15

(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't want anyone to tell me their real name.
I was anonymous because most people are anonymous.
However I sent an email to one person with my real email address so they know who I am.
Another person knows a lot more about who I am.
The reason I didn't say much about who i am is because people who I suspected were in the Family might come here (as some people have said).
I think if you read all my posts you would know what my motives are.
I will repeat them.

I know older members of the Family.
They say they are ex members, but now I suspect that they are not.
These people seemed like nice people, but now I read in the last week, that people in the country I live were terribly abused, so I wanted to know if the abuse was everywhere or not.

Many people have answered. I think I know enough after one week that the Family is a terrible organization.

Forgive me, but I just didn't know much.
Yesterday, I didn't post any info because people have been kind enough to tell me.

(reply to this comment
From Give a name
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 14:40

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Give us their name and we'll tell you who they are. (reply to this comment
From
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 14:37

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

"These people seemed like nice people, but now I read in the last week, that people in the country I live were terribly abused, so I wanted to know if the abuse was everywhere or not."

What?(reply to this comment

From Bones
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 13:28

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Forgive me for stating the obvious.(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 14:17

(Agree/Disagree?)
I understand you being suspicious.
Please understand me wanting to be anonymous.

I read that people change their names on a regular basis and were involved in terrible things.
I didn't know and still don't know who reads this so I was wary too.

(reply to this comment
from Phoenixkidd
Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 06:08

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Gaijn, Could you give us some background on who you are, ie age, background etc? It seems like you have never been in the cult AKA THE FAMILY, and yet you are so curious to know so much about the abuse we went through. Gaijin, means foreigner in Japanese, so I assume your white, lived in Kansas untill you got a college education and then moved to Japan to teach English, and live in a foreign country, is this not the case? How did you meet the cult?
(reply to this comment)
From gaijin
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 16:04

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Hi.
I sent you an email.
I also updated my profile and edited this article.
But for the last time I will post to this bulletin board.

I am not American.

I live in Japan.
I met Family members in Japan.

I met people who said they were not in the Family anymore, but they believed weird things. I did research and found out that what they believe is what the Family believes.

I came to this website wanting to know more about the Family in Japan where these people have been.

Because I read that Family members routinely lie, I thought I would get some more background information here.

If this caused you to be suspicious, then i am sorry.

Just wanted to know more about my "friends". It is personal for me.

To be honest, this week of reading and learning about the Family has been one of the saddest weeks of my life.

This is my final post on this site.

I wish you the best.





(reply to this comment
From Bones
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 16:31

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Not everyone who smiles and shakes your hand is your friend. You seem like a nice person, you should have nice friends. People in TF only have outside friends for money or favors. Be cautious and good luck bud.(reply to this comment
from SeanSwede
Monday, December 05, 2005 - 00:41

(Agree/Disagree?)

Simon Peters (aka Happy) daughter, (i forgot her name) made a long statement on t.v about the different standard sexual abuses that she and others went thru. I saw it on the t.v program called INSIDER here in stockholm recently.

She said that they, when they where very young where told to jackoff and perform oral sex on different men and join in on their sexual orgies with various shepards and leaders of The Family. I still remember seeing her on one of those videos that I saw when I was 8-9 yrs old amongst other children and women who were stripping on video for David Berg. I remember the whole home, small children and all, in Yokohama, back in `88-`90 when we all sat down in the livingroom and watched that video.


(reply to this comment)

from gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 15:15

(Agree/Disagree?)
Okay guys. I have spent a week reading this site everyday.
I have felt sick, gotten enraged, and have been in a constant state of shock and bewilderment. I feel like I have found out that my father is an axe-murderer!

So now I know that some of the people i know (maybe the parents of some of you).

They seemed like very nice people.

I have never thought they were creeps.

Now I guess my big question is...

What can I do to help?
Do I harass the people I know until they confess what they have done?
Do I tell them they are insane and have nothing to do with them?

These people have children with them, and I believe have some goodness in them - they are terrible deceived and have done wrong.

So, I want to help. I want to get people out of ths, stop them brom believing idiotic things, and if possible help them and their kids get on with their lives.

What do you think?

(reply to this comment)
From PopNFresh
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 15:58

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Gaijin, I understand your situation, and I honestly don't know what I can suggest you do. To harass them and make them confess what they've done won't work. They'll exclude you from their circle instantly and go into "persecution mode". Or they'll use the typical family defense, either deny anything happen or say in only rare occasions did something happen. I think from reading this site and getting an educated idea of what really happens you won't fall for that, so they might not even try to defend themselves.

Most people do the second option, tell them they're insane and have nothing to do with them.

You could try to find out more about them and who they are, and I'm sure that some people here know them, and can tell you about their real experiences with them. Honestly I can say that there were a number of adults who were very protective of me as I was growing up. More so than my own mother. And even though they were wrong for being in the cult, they were the ones who played a big part in making me comfortable enough in myself to leave.

But if you want to find out more about them be carefull how you ask questions. These people are paranoid about questions. Any questions you ask need to be coated in a sincere interest in their fascinating mission.

I remember when I was 12 and I would make friends with other little girls in the neighborhood. The adults would pressure me into witnessing to them, and I hated doing it. But if I didn't count a "soul saved" within a few days I would be accused of having worldly influences, and a bunch of shit like that. So I'd do my job, and I don't think any of them really understood what it was, but they went along with it. They would tell their mom when they got home, and next thing you know, the girls were not allowed to play with me anymore. All I wanted was a silly game of tag or hide and seek. I would be so bitter at their parents, but looking back now, it was their parents who were doing the right thing by protecting them from culties.(reply to this comment

From gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 16:24

(Agree/Disagree?)
NO I don't want to harass anyone.

I want to help.

I think some of the people I know are not bad, just deceived.

Good people can do bad things sometimes.


(reply to this comment
From PopNFresh
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 18:38

(Agree/Disagree?)

Yes, but just keep in mind that these people have been "deceived" for 30 - 40 years. And understand that while they tought us kids to lie, they were the ones teaching us how to do it, so it's very easy for them to appear good and sincere.

Also remember that there is a difference between being deceived and believing what you want to. A deceived cult member would be one who thinks his money is going to help the poor and needy when it actually goes to the pockets of their leader. A cult member who believes what they want to would be one who accepts child abuse because it affords them momentary pleasure or makes children more manageable because they are too scared out of their minds to disobey.(reply to this comment

From conjoined twins
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 15:30

(Agree/Disagree?)
what were the specific articles that produced the reactions you describe here?(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 15:48

(Agree/Disagree?)
there are two many to mention!
Story after story. and the videos, and the suicides.

To you people involved, it was your life.

For other people , the Family was one of many cults.

I think the suicide of Ricky and the 60 mins shows in Australia and NZ, the dR Phil show etc opened up a whole world to the general public.

to most people, believing weird things is okay, adults being involved in alternative lifestyles is one thing, but everyone draws the line at kids.

That is why the Catholic church has been under seige, had to pay out millions, and priests have gone to jail.

Its the articles about children getting messed up.
And yes for adults, its the anger that "good" people cold have been deceived enough to allow their children to be exposed to, or to actually encourage their children into things they should never have experienced.

I remember watching TV about the children being taken away from their homes in Australia in the 90s. It was huge news. But in the end, the kids were found to be more well adjusted than outside kids. So, an outsider thinks - hey, if they examines all these kids intensively and no-one talked of abuse then, maybe the rumours are all wrong. Now you find out that the kids were just super well trained to lie!

Its just all too sad. (reply to this comment
From Fish
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 09:30

(Agree/Disagree?)
Your style of writing is odd.(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 14:33

(Agree/Disagree?)
Thanks!
I think I am trying to write too much, too quickly, too late at night.
Sorry. I should look over what I have written before I send it.

I don't speak or write much English these days.

I will try to improve. smile
(reply to this comment
from Haunted
Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 06:46

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I spent most of my early childhood in Japan.

I have never met Berg and was not even aware at the time that he was residing in the country.

In the cult, absue was commonplace, and yes, in some places more than others.

By abuse, I am not only referring to sexual abuse, but mental and physical abuse as well.

Beatings of children as young as 1 years old took place in almost every home I ever lived in.

Children were routinely denied education and worked raising money to further the cult's purposes.

Many nights I spent freezing on the streets of Tokyo when I was as young as 5 trying to meet a "quota" of sales so that I could go home and sleep.

We had signs hung around our necks forbidding others to speak to us. We did physical labor as punishment for infractions as commonplace to childhood such as giggling or joking around.

We took care of groups of children only a few years younger than ourselves and were even responsible for physically disciplining them.

And yes, there was sexual abuse. I was fondled as young as 5. At age 7, I was instructed to perform a strip-tease dance on camera for Berg and others to "enjoy". I was paired up for "sharing" nights (where we were encouraged to explore each other sexually) when I was a young as 6.

The above is only a small part of what I experienced in Japan and elsewhere in the world.

Hope this answers your question somewhat.
(reply to this comment)

From gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 14:33

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I remember seeing a kid asking for donations in Tokyo.

I remember being really sad and a little angry.

I think, if I remember the child was saying that they were raising money for something.

Maybe it sounded like a worthwhile cause.

Actually in many parts of the world, children may be on a street collecting money for a charity or a school building or something, so it is not unheard of outside of the Family.

But, nobody outside the Family has any idea that the kids are doing this constantly! So this was a regular part of your lives? Weekly? I feel like I have uncovered this whole insane evil underground world that existed in society all this time. As a person who has been involved in Christian ministry and just a normal Joe citizen, my conclusion is that any person brought up in the Family should be given free access to the best counseling and other help available.

I am not saying that anyone is crazy, I am saying that I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to have experienced even "light" levels of this. Something has to be done - but does anyone have any idea for what outsiders can do? (I know some current Family members). I suppose the real big issue for some of you is that regardless of what you experienced, you wouldn't want your parents implicated or possibly jailed. (that could be a fear right?)(reply to this comment
From Fish
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 09:36

(Agree/Disagree?)
When it comes down to it, no one really cares. We arnt their children, we arnt their problem. There are of course the morbidly curious like yourself, but even they tend to lose intrest once they find something better to do.(Hint hint)(reply to this comment
From Baxter
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 14:00

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

'sharing nights' - did you have to remind me!???

AARGGGHHH!

(reply to this comment

from PopNFresh
Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 02:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)


Japan experience


Can anyone here give information regarding the activities of David Berg while he was in Japan? I'm not sure what activities you are referring to. But leading the cult was one of them.

I would like to know how extensive the abuse was in the various places. I don't think there is categorized history of abuse per region yet. It would be interesting to see. I know for a fact that in the Philippines there was a large amount of organized abuse (sharing schedules with minors, gatherings with orgies, etc.).

Was it standard, or were there some places where children were free from abuse? Abuse was promoted through reading material provided by the cult leaders, so yes it was standard. As far as continents go, I think Antartica was abuse free.

Were there adults in the Family who were not abusive in Japan? There were many adults who did not commit direct abuse to children, however any adults that were members in the 70's and 80's were required to read the books published that illustrated and instructed on child abuse. Often parents turned a blind eye to what was happening because questioning leadership meant possible excommunication -- a price I think any responsible parent should be more than willing to pay for maintaining the innocence of their children.

(reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll
Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 00:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
Your request is very vague, can you be more specific?

Berg lived in Japan for about 1-1/2 years in the 80s. During that time he spent a lot of it at Tateyama in Chiba. He oversaw the building of the pyramid at the HCS, and the implementing of the 'school' vision. I can't say that he personally abused anyone while in Japan, as in sexually or physically, I haven't heard it.

There were abusive people in TFI in Japan, both Japanese nationality of foreign. You can't say one place was worse than another. I never experienced any sexual nor physical abuse myself, whereas my sister did. I lived in places where I found out later abuse had been going on, but I didn't know about it in the home. Whether I was blind, or I just didn't know the signals to pick up on, or I was too young to realize what exactly it was, I don't know.

Sexual abuse happened at the HCS on a number of occasions, some of it right under my nose. At the time we were not even really aware of what abuse was, we had been raised this way, we had been conditioned to believe we deserved to be beaten, and to expect sexual attention from men. Being older myself, I think I was able to ward off attempts made and it gave me a sort of protection, unfortunately it wasn't true for many. I had a few scarey incidents happen to me, but nothing to write about here.

There has been a lot of abuse in the form of child labor, lack of child education, emotional control, forms of abuse which don't get much attention. It seems that certain girls were magnets for sexual abuse in Japan, and others of us were able to escape it.

So, back to the point, the question is somewhat too vague. Perhaps a bit more specifics of what you'd like to know would help?
(reply to this comment)
From gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 01:11

(Agree/Disagree?)
I am just learning about the Family, and just recently the fact that David Berg was in Japan, so that is why my question seems vague. I probably don't know the specific questions to ask.

But actually, your answer was very helpful.

Because I had read many of the articles here, but not all of the ones from people who had been in Japan, I wanted to know whether sexual and physical abuse was universal or not.

And you answered that. At least in your case, you didn't experience direct sexual abuse.

The reason why i am interested is that I know several adults who were in the Family in Japan. They seemed like nice guys who I didn't want to believe were involved in child abuse.

I want to believe that these people I know while having really weird beliefs were not involved in hurting children.

I could ask them directly, but after reading on this website that people in the Family are taught that its okay to lie, and that people change their names etc, I thought I would ask people in here first.

I think some of the people here don't realize that some people have hardly even heard of the Family.

I don't know much about the Moonies in thailand either.

YOur answer was great.

As for David Berg, it is amazing that he was living in Japan. has anyone here actually met him? People say that not many people have seen his face, but lots of people lived in Tateyama where he was. I assumed that some people may have met him, talked with him etc.

I think if the Japanese media or other groups knew what his background was, what he had written, and what he had been accused of, that they would have tried to contact him.

I admit that I am ignorant. But many people are.

Last point. It is not only me. Isn't it incredible that the Family Singers have sung at the White House?? How did THAT come about, and didn't anyone think that was strange?

(reply to this comment
From monger
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 10:24

(Agree/Disagree?)
There is additional information about The Family's history and operations in Japan at the following link:

- http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Japan
(reply to this comment
from Fist
Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 12:59

(Agree/Disagree?)
What the fuck are you talking about?
(reply to this comment)
From gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 01:14

(Agree/Disagree?)
Talking about David Berg in Japan, and people's experiences in Japan while in the Family.

You can answer anyway you like.

If you had only bad experiences then let me know.

If you had mostly bad but some good, but your own parents wre nice to you, then tell me.

If my questions seems dumb, its because I WAS NEVER IN THE FAMILY so I have NO IDEA. That is why I asked.

Sorry if the question annoyed you.(reply to this comment
From Baxter
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 13:58

(Agree/Disagree?)
don't mind my brother. He's in Wales, you understand.(reply to this comment
From Fist
Thursday, December 08, 2005, 10:58

(Agree/Disagree?)
I was ummm... a bit surprised!!! Damn you Baxter!!! Damn you to hell... Thucidydes is doing my head in... and I have no weed... Hence the pointless comment (much like this one). See you on Thursday. Air France? Ahh the lovely scent of a garlicky
stewardess... (reply to this comment
From Baxter
Friday, December 09, 2005, 12:58

(Agree/Disagree?)

be glad it's Thucidydes and not Einhard or Asser!

And BTW we are NEVER flying Air France ever again! (in competent sales staff). Well, at least I'm never buying tickets from them again!(reply to this comment

From gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 14:39

(Agree/Disagree?)
Baxter - if you have email, send me a line if you have time.
You lived in Chiba right?(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Sunday, December 04, 2005, 14:37

(Agree/Disagree?)
Baxter, I have read many of your posts and comments, and assume that you probably don't want to be over-complimented.

But, from what I have read, you are extremely articulate and intelligent. Really! You are a good example of someone who may think they had a disadvantaged childhood education, but you really have overcome that.



(reply to this comment
From TMC,TBN,Senkyo-dan,Murakami
Monday, December 05, 2005, 16:54

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Gaigin, find out where these people you know have spent their time in TF. Find out their real names. Do they have children?
Are theyíre living communally or in homes with less then 4 adults?
Have they tried to convert you? Have they ďwitnessedĒ to you?
TF has many different statuses now. If you can find out some of the above, you may find out just how involved they with TF now.

(reply to this comment

From gaijin
Monday, December 05, 2005, 17:20

(Agree/Disagree?)
They have not tried to convert me or tell me anything good about the group.

What do you mean different levels?

Is four adults signicant??

Please send me an email.

(reply to this comment
From TMC
Monday, December 05, 2005, 18:02

(
Agree/Disagree?)
If theyíre in TF as FDís (Family Disciples) they have to abide by certain rules. One of them is having to live with 4 voting members. (Above the age of 18) In order to vote and make decisions. They are not allowed to work normal jobs, only the kind sanctioned by the leadership and that varies from country to country. Generally the FDís expected to support itís self through the Activated ministry and by receiving charitable donations. In Japan FD members are allowed to make ends meet by doing wedding work and music, or so Iíve heard.
MMís (Missionary Members) are one step outside the FD cercle and are allowed more freedom and generally do what they want provided they pay their tithe. (taxes to the leadership)(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Monday, December 05, 2005, 18:08

(Agree/Disagree?)
TMC? Is that the name of a wedding organization?
Feel free to email me.

Years ago there was trouble with Family people doing weddings.
If you know about any of this could you email me?

(reply to this comment
From TokyoMusicCompany
Monday, December 05, 2005, 18:22

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Now youíre catching on. They might have been down south before and only resurfaced here within the past couple years. I bet theyíre pretty good at what they do.(reply to this comment
From TokyoMusicCompany
Monday, December 05, 2005, 18:22

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Now youíre catching on. They might have been down south before and only resurfaced here within the past couple years. I bet theyíre pretty good at what they do.(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Monday, December 05, 2005, 18:47

(Agree/Disagree?)
Are you in this Tokyo Music Company?

Anyway, here is a funny question.

If you say these people are in the Family at some level, what do they tell the wedding company when they join?
Do they say they are Family?
Lie and say they are Baptist?

Do they feel funny wearing robes and being in a church, when they actually don't like robes and churches right?

But another more basic question.

Are there some family members who like being in the Family but choose to be "faithful" only to their spouse?
Serious question - maybe its dumb.

But if a person joined the Family now as a young couple, can they dig the music, like the charity work, like spiritual things, but decided that they don't want to share their spouse with anyone, and they love their husband or wife so refuse to sleep with other Family members?
Are their people like that?

And if not, it is pretty weird that they would conduct a wedding and ask a couple if they will "forsake all others and remain faithful till death do us part".....???

Are they laughing inside?
It would be terrible if they actually tried to recruit and innocent in love young couple, introduce them to the Family and then once they have joined tell them that it is silly to "keep their vows?

So, are there Family couples after the Flirty Fishing and the worst days, that want to be a normal couple?


(reply to this comment
From Fish
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 09:40

(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey! I use to work for TMC. Good money.(reply to this comment
From Lucky
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 03:54

(
Agree/Disagree?)


Are there some family members who like being in the Family but choose to be "faithful" only to their spouse?
Serious question - maybe its dumb.

My parents were pretty much faithful. There were "others" but no children by them, and they were careful quiet about these "others" with us. I suppose that shows guilt (which means a consciousness of doing wrong, which means...what the hell were they thinking?!) but I'm glad they did it that way.

Other freinds of mine whose parents were more open about the "sharing" were very insecure about their family unit, often fearful over losing their father to another woman (or vica-versa). One girl my age told me (at 12) how afraid she was of losing her father, that she was the one holding her family together, that her father only stayed with her mom because he liked her (the daughter). I didn't understand till later.


But if a person joined the Family now as a young couple, can they dig the music, like the charity work, like spiritual things, but decided that they don't want to share their spouse with anyone, and they love their husband or wife so refuse to sleep with other Family members?
Are their people like that?

Again, not to sound as if I'm defending my parents but my mom admits that the only reason she stays is because she wants to do charity work and TF is the only group she can work with while also raising a family. She doesn't have to give up her dreams of being a missionary or social worker OR her children. Both my parents were raised Catholic and stuck close together, not liking the "sharing" very much, only practicing it when there was much pressure. (reply to this comment

From
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 05:17

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

Is adult-with-adult sexual infidelity really the significant descriptor of TF in modern society, or at least one which requires our attention? Isn't whatever adults get up to in their own bedrooms really their own business these days?

I would think there are more reprehensible - and illegal - practices that we could focus on.(reply to this comment

From Father Flanagen
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:03

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Ha. Sorry, I donít do weddings.
Ironic isnít it, that although they presently may not practice the sexual freedoms that TF advocates, they can stand before the bride and groom knowing what they know and what they have done in the past and still pretend to be holy men of god.

I think the wife swapping is an option now. And Iím sure there are couples who want to be normal,-whatever that means.
(reply to this comment
From Father Flanagen
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:17

(
Agree/Disagree?)
They wouldnít say theyíre with or used to be with TF. It got them fired before. I donít know if they lie about their affiliation with TF. A better question would be what church and/or organization they said they were with in order to get the job.
(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:26

(Agree/Disagree?)
You sure you won't email me?
I would love to talk with you.

(reply to this comment
From Father Flanagen
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:31

(
Agree/Disagree?)
I'm hoping others who are "in the know" will chime in.(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:14

(Agree/Disagree?)
YOur handles are really funny. laugh

You really know the Family and wedding companies well.

You must have been in japan for a while.

But re your last answer, their maybe some Family people who now DO believe in marriage vows and are sorry for their past.

Are their people in the Family who are trying to reform it?
I read the story of Rick Dupoy?? (forgot the spelling) He was in Japan and in the Family for a long time. Before he got out, he was trying to do good within the group and after a long struggle he finally realized that he had to leave.

Many people have left and they usually leave after several months or years of struggling.

Since you know so much about the Family, where do you see it going from here? Will it just die out with the older generation? Seems to me like the strength of the movement was with the "hippie" generation who were rebelling and reacting against the society of that day.

But in the 21st century, what is the appeal of the Family now? Or is there also a hard core zealous second generation coming up?




(reply to this comment
From Father Flanagen
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:37

(
Agree/Disagree?)
You can't reform TF from within. It's a big "follow the leader game".(reply to this comment
From Father Flanagen
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:28

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Iíve been out for almost 10 wonderful years now. Sadly a lot of my good friends are still in. I donít know what the future hold for TF but I think we do have to recognize that is evolving quite rapidly. Esp. in light of all thatís been happening to them recently. Unfortunately for some of my old best friends, TF is the only place for them. They wouldnít make it in normal society now. Theyíre too far in. Some of them under the age of 26 have 5 kids and no marketable skills to speak of.(reply to this comment
From gaijin
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:39

(Agree/Disagree?)
Its sad isn't it.

Maybe I know some of your old friends...

Do you believe in anything now?

I think the Family could produce a lot of hard-core atheists in the end.

(reply to this comment
From Phoenixkidd
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 06:03

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Gaijn, Could you give us some background on who you are, ie age, background etc? It seems like you have never been in the cult AKA THE FAMILY, and yet you are so curious to know so much about the abuse we went through. Gaijin, means foreigner in Japanese, so I assume your white, lived in Kansas untill you got a college education and then moved to Japan to teach English, and live in a foreign country, is this not the case? How did you meet the cult? (reply to this comment
From Flanagen
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:48

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Not sure what I belive in. For now I'm just chilling on the whole religion thing.(reply to this comment
From Father Flanagen
Monday, December 05, 2005, 19:53

(
Agree/Disagree?)
BTW. All knids of people read this site. In and out.(reply to this comment
From Baxter
Monday, December 05, 2005, 06:13

(Agree/Disagree?)

My education certainly had holes in it, but ultimately I'm not sure how much stock I place in the overall long-term benefits of standardised conventional education. There is however a principle involved: a standardised education has implicit social and economical advantages which absence I felt quite strongly when I left. Comprehensively, I would not call my background disadvantaged; I would perhaps refer to it as challenging and difficult.

Very few of these disadvantages cannot be remedied; the elements which cannot are emotional issues which can be dealt with. There are times I cannot imagine growing up anywhere else, and in any case I try not to hold any regrets regarding the experiences of my life. Millions of people in the world have it considerably worse than me (or indeed anyone on this site), and I am learning to accept that. Perhaps I shall e-mail you later (when I get through this massive pile of coursework that is haunting me!).(reply to this comment

From TYJ for Holy Holes!
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 11:59

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Without the holes in our education, where would they be? The gaps swiss cheese of our "schooling" go to the big cheese's swiss account and fund the future swiss cheesing of Family youth. PTL!(reply to this comment

From Phoenixkidd
Tuesday, December 06, 2005, 18:04

(Agree/Disagree?)
Uggh the very words "Holy Holes" now makes me quiver. I can't imagine reading that to children, I remember there used to be a comic to this letter, and they talked about how your penis has a hole, your vagina is a hole...in fact did you know that you came from a hole in your Mama's tummy? Such a sick guy teaching 1000's of kids how to be a perv. (reply to this comment

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