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Getting Out : Creeps

Where do you stand?

from cheeks - Wednesday, July 07, 2004
accessed 1994 times

Recently I received an e-mail from one of the people who is working very hard to make individuals in the Family accountable for their actions. In the e-mail he mentioned how hard it is to get statements from former Family members regarding their abuse. It seems we can come here and vent our anger and talk about our past, yet we are unwilling to do something about it to help the younger generation who is still in.

I realize that there may be feeling of shame and that is why we come here anonymously. I know that everyone does not heal in the same time and in the same way. Yet, I feel that we could be doing more. There are so many people on this site who are gifted with words and are so eloquent, and I wish everyday I could have that gift. Why don't you speak up and tell the world what they did to you. What they did to us. By your silence you condone their actions.

We have a unique opportunity to help those who are unable to help themselves. You owe it to yourselves to do the right thing and point the finger and say it was him/her, you owe it to your siblings who are still in, and you owe it to the abusers who are unashamed of their actions.

Name them, shame them and by God make them accountable for what they did.

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from
Friday, August 06, 2004 - 15:11

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
If we do they will probably turn around and deny it all.
(reply to this comment)
from frmrjoyish
Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 15:49

(Agree/Disagree?)
I just saw something on TV that I think was about TF. It was a promo for DateLine NBC and it talked about children of the 60's being forced into sexual activities at a young age. TF's name was not mentioned but the unmistakable covers of MO letters like Child Brides flashed across the screen. Does anyone know anything about this such as who is participating? The program is supposed to air on Friday night here in the US.
(reply to this comment)
From Jules
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 17:40

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I did this interview (although I am a child of the 70's, not the 60's, just for the record). The producer wrote me about a week ago and said that this was finally going to air, but it has been delayed so many times that I didn't want to say anything on here until I knew for sure. I did this interview when this web site had just first launched, which was the end of August of 2001, obviously there have been more urgent stories since then, which is why this has been so delayed.

I am frankly really really stressing about this for all the reasons that have been mentioned in comments here under this article. I work in a good place right now and although after this interview I did tell something to my boss and colleagues (since I thought it was better they heard it from me), it was not everything. I have been fired before for talking about my past and although I don't think I will be here, I have to go and face them all on Monday. I am proud of what I have (mostly) overcome but it could be very difficult. Thankfully not many people I work with watch much TV so perhaps they will just miss it.

There's also all of you, who I hope I am not being perceived as representing, because you all have your own stories and your own lives and I never want to assume or cause others to assume that my life is yours. I did write and tell the producer that at this point now there are many many other people who could tell their own stories and do it so much better than I did, but I think their budget was filled already and I was told that this was coming to air soon and they couldn't revise it too much.

Anyway, I hope it works out. As Cheeks said, sometimes you have to take the opportunity to tell your own story, because someone has to say something about what happened to us, no matter what the cost. (reply to this comment

From greg6325@hotmail.com
Saturday, July 17, 2004, 12:36

(Agree/Disagree?)

That was a fascinating interview on dateline, and you rocked! I wouldn't worry about your co-workers. You're right, they probably weren't even watching tv, doesn't everyone in Canada just watch hockey anyway? Just kidding.

You usually can't bury your past forever, something always manages to reveal things you would prefer to hide. You revealed your past in a productive and positive way. You showed others who may be suffering, that they can find a way out, like you did. If I was your co-worker, I'd be proud of you.

I had no idea that those things happened. I apologize for intruding, I'm just an outsider who never heard of children of god before this dateline show. I was so dumbfounded that people let such terrible things happen to children, that I did some internet research and stumbled across this page.

My heart goes out to everyone in this group who was mistreated as children, and now must sort it out as adults.(reply to this comment

From Shaka
Saturday, July 17, 2004, 04:13

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Yeee Haww Jules! Just watched the show! U kicked cultie ass!(reply to this comment
From seeker
Saturday, July 17, 2004, 00:46

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Just watched the Dateline show "Losing Faith." Jules, I think you did a great job -- I admire you for sticking your neck out. It's tough to do what you did, say what you said. Kudos.

(reply to this comment

From Haunted
Saturday, July 17, 2004, 06:43

(Agree/Disagree?)

I thought you did really well Jules, I admit it would be a very difficult thing for me personally to do as it involves putting your proverbial "dirty laundry" out to air for everyone who happened to tune in, so I really admire the fact that you had the guts to tell your story like you did.

However, sometimes I wonder if the media does over-simplify or simply is attracted to the correlation between certain ex-members and their upbringing and the sex trade/industry. While I have a few close friends who felt as you did Jules, I also know that many others (both on this site and off) took very different routes, and I wondered if the Family might use this as a way to discredit your story - I wondered (out of curiousity) if this concerned you at all when you were recording it or has occurred to you since.

Unlike many others on here, I can't say that I have any resentment/problems with those of us who went into this line of work, I know that all of us felt so degraded and had so little self worth when we left that sometimes (if I believed in God) I feel like the old addage, "There but for the grace of God go I". (Sorry - indoctrination has prohibited me from thinking of any other term).

On another note, I was so impressed by how similat our stories of adapting to life outside a cult were to those who had been in other NRMs. The show on the whole was very impressive and I think that it got the message across. I appauld you Jules once again for your guts!!(reply to this comment

From moon beam
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 12:41

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Good for you Jules. It is incredably important that different people give their stories to the press as long as they feel comfortable, as it does lend greater significance to our collective past. If the public only see a couple of *face's* it's easier for them to dismiss these as isolated cases, when we all know they are not. One thing I was always asked in the first 3 or so years was "why are you the only one speaking out about this if, as you say these things are wide spread in the cult?" For years, until the Justice Ward court case there was very little spoken evidence- only Mo letters which fortunately I had.

I just want to give the other side of *telling* because I used to be recognised and as far as people (freinds, employers) were concerned, yes they did see me in a very different light but it was positive and on one level it felt good to get their *systemite* feedback to issues they may not have thought about before. I hope and truly believe that they will gain a whole new outlook about who you are and your magnificent effort, strength and will power and without sounding cheesy, Respect! (sorry to hear you have been sacked for it)

I made a decision to turn negatives into positives when I speak about the fact that I grew up in a cult.( as I saw the reaction that was given to my mom when her stories sounded guilt ridden and embarassed) I think other people pick up on the way you feel about it yourself while you portray it to them. I certainly don't mean to imply that everyone should do this but In my CV, I have incorperated into my personal profile the fact that I was bought up in a cult and have found that it is seen as a positive. (collage, uni and jobs.) I guess things change, as I also put that I'm a single mother too! It would be interesting if you wrote about the way you feel and how *others* reacted after its aired. Shame it's not on in the U.K. (reply to this comment

From Shaka
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 19:35

(Agree/Disagree?)
Do you know when and what exact time it's coming on? I know many here won't want to miss it.(reply to this comment
From Marcia McLuhan
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 00:38

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Agree/Disagree?)
I found this listing for the upcoming Dateline NBC schedule at http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/


FRIDAY, JULY 16 8:00 p.m. ET Dateline chronicles the personal struggles of three individuals who chose to break free from the life of the extremely religious cultures they were born into back in the 1970s. Keith Morrison reports.

One ministerís mission from god turns into a mission of corruption, when he and some of his family members are found liable for fraud. Keith Morrison reports.

(reply to this comment
From Haunted
Friday, July 16, 2004, 11:01

(Agree/Disagree?)

From NBC.com - about tonight's show......

"Losing faith
Faith can be a powerful and positive influence in one's life. But it can also be misplaced. This story starts a generation ago, when young people were experimenting with non-traditional lifestyles, and religions. In some cases, the faithful turned their lives over to groups who controlled not just what they believed, but also who they married, and how they raised their children. Now, years later, those children, as angry young adults, are speaking out about their shattered lives, lost faith and what a long strange trip it's been.

Join us tonight at 8pm ET, 7 CT for a 2-hour Dateline NBC."(reply to this comment

From Haunted
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 07:22

(Agree/Disagree?)
I saw this last night at the gym - I looked up and there was this preview - I was shocked. Should be interesting.....(reply to this comment
From Nick
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 07:31

(Agree/Disagree?)
Can somone record this? I would but my cheepo DVD player doesn't record.(reply to this comment
From frmrjoyish
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 19:32

(Agree/Disagree?)

I think its great that your willing to stick your neck out to get the word out about this destructive cult. Due to circumstances I cannot reveal or go public with some details of my past but I admire those who do. I hope everything goes well with you at your job. Just a question..is it legal for them to fire you over something that happened in your past?? Seems like discrimination to me esp. considering past circumstances.

Ever since finding this site I've taken tremendous strides as far as coming to terms with my past. I'm not as ashamed as I've been for the last several years. I would like to tell a certain person in my life about my past but the only thing keeping me is my fear that he will find this website. I'm not sure if I want him coming on here and finding out quite so much. I realize this is a public site but I've written things on here that I wouldn't want anyone who is not an SGA to read. Does anyone else have significant others that are not ex-SGA's that frequent this site? (reply to this comment

From
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 00:02

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
Of course people's situations differ much from case to case, but I do care to have some real friends, who accept me in spite of my past.It's like putting people to one acid-test of
friendship.I found it's really worth the try.(reply to this comment
From frmrjoyish
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 17:58

(Agree/Disagree?)

The more I come to terms with my own past, the easier it is to let those close to me in on it. It's not about whether or not someone will accept me. It's more a matter of whether or not I want someone who has not personally experienced growing up in an abusive cult to read some of the comments I've made on this site. That is my only concern. All it takes is a quick google of any one of the many names for TF, COG, or whatever and this site inevitably shows up. I guess I'm the only one concerned about that, I don't know.(reply to this comment

from sarafina
Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 09:50

(Agree/Disagree?)
I probably know who it is that told you that cheeks (again maybe I don't) as I was told the same thing and I will tell you some of the same reasons I gave him. These reason are from inuviduals I know whose stories and confessions would be some of the most incriminating and hold the most clout. A few reasons are ..

They are just getting their lives together and not ready to have it torn apart again by public opinions and the media. Some spent yrs trying to get a good job, go to school (some less)and support their kids (if they have any) and barley survive as is. Some of the things that happened to them are very embarrassing and personal and if they were to take it to court and make became public it could effect their Job and life immensely as their whole background would come out and I know a lot of us have left that part out when applying for jobs and in relationships w/ co-workers and friends. What if it did go to court and days were spent on it? They can't afford to miss any work and how would this effect them if they have kids also?

This doesn't mean they don't want to testify but it would have to be a one time sure thing as they would be putting it all on the line. IF they knew it wasn't just another "attempt" or another "documentary" but that it really was going to make all the difference then they would make the sacrifice.
(reply to this comment)
From
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 23:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
Very understandable reasons.However, couldn't there be a project, like e.g. : Safe Testifying Foundation ?!(reply to this comment
From
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 18:36

(
Agree/Disagree?)
I think the message for your caped crusader is that he needs a plan before he will get any statements. There are ways to tackle the beast, he's just gotta find them (or listen to those who have!). Also there must be some people out there who know what is needed about the inner workings of the conspiracy. Where the hell are you guys? Better said, cat got your balls? That said, those eunuchs are not strictly necessary.(reply to this comment
From cheeks
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 15:29

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I totally see your point. For every person who comes to this site is there is their another road to healing. And certainly all of us are in different stages. However all he needs right now are statements there may never be a need to go to court. Certainly if it would endanger your job or your childrens welfare I would never want suggest you putting your-self in that position. I do hope those of us who are in a position where we can help expose the Family for what it is do so and for those of you who are unable to I understand that as well. I hope I did not offend anyone with my post, and if I did I am truly sorry. (reply to this comment

From
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 18:17

Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3.5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

So those of us "who are in a position" can get hung out to dry alone and thrown to the wolves all over again! Whopee!! Can I go first? It was a helluva ride last time!(reply to this comment

From From where
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 17:24

(
Agree/Disagree?)
(reply to this comment
From
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 23:20

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

She's makin a good point. IMO, this is a sensitive topic and not one to be mocked. I believe this is what she meant to say.

I do hope those of us who are in a position where we can help expose TF for what it is, without destroying the life we've built after leaving, do so. And those of you who are unable to do so, I understand that as well.

(reply to this comment

From
Wednesday, July 14, 2004, 08:32

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)
Believe me, that was not mocking.(reply to this comment
from porceleindoll
Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 20:56

Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 3 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I would be interested to know why someone would not want to name their abuser(s).

1. Do they feel ashamed of the experience

2. Have they gotten past it and by submitting an affidavit or whatever it would bring up a past they have worked hard to overcome.

3. Are they afraid they would not be believed and that the accused would turn the situation around and make them look like liars?

4. Do they still feel some condemnation in themselves for what happened. It seems that many of the stories of abuse also tell of the abused person's own feelings of guilt that they had been a 'flirty little teen' or that the 'shepherd' had managed to make them look like the guilty party.

5. Are people prepared to get themselves involved in what could turn into a long legal fight, do they want to be brought into courts to give sworn testimony?

6. Are they willing to face the exposure it could possibly bring into their personal daily life with new friends, jobs, spouses, school...


My husband and I have discussed many times going to the same media that raised the 'persecution' against the cult in this country. My husband was the main spokesperson with his face plastered all over the subways and country for a good amount of time. He was considered the 'leader' of the cult here. He was the main one who dealt with press conferences, releases, and was the 'face' of the cult. Even now, over 10 years later, every so often someone says "Haven't I seen you before?"

Four years ago my husband lost a very good job due to his past involvement with the cult and media, and after working hard to rebuild our financial base, deja-vu came about and he again lost a job that paid our bills and helped us through the month. Since then it has been not just a financial struggle, but a bitter realisation that because of his infamous involvement with the cult, he was hampered in the work area. It has taken us many months to be able to put it behind us once again, rebuild our financial security.

We looked at all the pros and cons of going to the press with the truth, and using my husband's infamous personality to expose the cult in this country, and to be honest, the cons won out. He has parents, children and grandchildren who would all be negatively affected by such action, not to mention our own standing in the neighborhood and negative repercussions on our business (which is located in the neighborhood) but on our kids who already have had to overcome the fact that they are half-breeds in a country which is very exclusive. There is my family to consider as well who have worked hard to rebuild their lives and business since leaving the cult, including not only my father and step-mother, but siblings as well. It's a small world that we live in and the possible negative outcomes in our personal life outweight the positives we may attain in exposing the cult here.

Perhaps many will say we are cowards, we are not willing to stand up to the extent of our own hurt in order to expose what we believe to be wrong, but when it comes to protecting those we love and weighing the hurt it will cause to especially the many innocent children connected to our life, we feel that it is wiser to remain silent.

Of course, if the media were to show up on our doorstep then we would have no other course of action than to make the most of it and hope to make some money in the process.

I know that's off the subject of the original question posed in this forum, but perhaps it is a little insight into some of the reasons why one would be hesitant to step forward into what could have considerable negative repercussions in their own life and the lives of those connected to them.
(reply to this comment)

From Shackled
Sunday, July 11, 2004, 23:26

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Well, if you ever do end up going to the media let me know. I don't have any proof of abuse, just my word and what I've seen. But I can think of a few people I'd like to "pay a visit" to.(reply to this comment
from Banshee
Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 20:22

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

When there was an announcement on this site for ideas for the newer version, one suggestion I had was to start a section that would be only for just such stories--not necessarily for comments or discussions, but just straight stories. Then anyone browsing this site would have them all in one place rather than interspersed in the comments or articles. I would certainly contribute.
(reply to this comment)

From GoldenMic
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 19:39

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I strongly agree with the idea of having a specific area on this site that is set aside for survivor stories. Many of the people who write here, especially at first, are convinced they are alone and that nobody else has ever felt so alone. It would be great if they could go to an area and see their own story written and re-written by a hundred voices or more.

Another thing, one very good reason why people do NOT feel like sharing their cult storiries is because of the reaction. Generally, the primary public reaction is one of shock and near non-belief, and one feels like some kind of freak. These stories are WELL outside of mainstream tales of abuse, they are lurid and spectacular, and frankly, hard to believe. Not for us, but for the millions of "normies". Also, if you are unlucky enough to get feedback from the scholars in this field, the so-called cult apologists and "New Religion" scholars, you can expect to be defined as an alarmist and a "sour grapes" apostate who just wants to hurt people because they didn't make you feel special enough. If you read the apologists, you end up feeling like some kind of hysterical, lying, baby who just wants to hurt that poor little cult for a few simple mistakes and growing pains. That REALLY galls!

Finally, while I am personally committed to resisting the oppression of my cult past, and currently working as a non-professional with many cult victims to support their self-empowerment, I do not really agree that we cult victims "owe" it to the children, or anybody else, to once-again sacrifice ourselves for the good of another.

Children, shmildren, if you know what I mean.

It is the parents, MY parents and yours, that "owe" a debt of redemption and freedom, and just because those same parents would rather live in their myopic little cult world, that does not make me or anyone else responsible to save those children.

Frankly, most of us cult victims have already paid a heavy and damning price in trying to do what's right for others, and we were exploited and abused in direct proportion to our idealism and commitment to the interests of others.

So, while I personally am committed to many years of work on behalf of loved-one's left behind, and their innocent children, I simply cannot do this work because of some debt owed to others, but because it is the commitment of my heart.

I hope this does not sound judgemental, since that is not my intent. Instead, I have searched my heart long and hard related to this issue of "what I owe", and frankly, that approach just doesn't touch me at all. What does resonate is the idea of an individual who searches my heart, and decides this is a cause worthy of the intense work and sacrifice, based on MY feelings and commitments, and NOT based on somebody else's idea about what I owe.

Thanks for bringing this up. This is an important issue for me, and your questions forced me to look at where I am coming from right now. Michael Martella.

(reply to this comment

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