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Getting Out : Creeps

Plagiarized Art?

from Tim R - Friday, November 21, 2003
accessed 24701 times

Does The Family Plagiarize their Art?

This is a link to a flash animation sent to us by someone who wishes to remain anonymous. Whoever they are, they did a fantastic job with this expose.

http://www.geocities.com/familyartcorner/

The thing that really bugs me is not just that they rip off their graphics, but that they have the nerve to claim that "Jesus" inspires Tamar with exactly what to draw. The one with about the six-fingered girl is especially creepy, since it's obvious someone realized they'd screwed up, and instead of admitting that the girl has six fingers because the original picture is that way, they flat out lied, and said that Jesus had inspired Tamar to draw the "spirit helper" accurately.

I'd love to hear what any current or recent Family members have to say about this. Did anyone really believe that Tamar was getting these "visions" from "Our Husband"? (LOL)

Reader's comments on this article

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from turelx
Friday, April 04, 2008 - 05:19

(Agree/Disagree?)
i lived with some of the artists in TF for a bit before i left and i also saw lots of drawings before they got publeshed,and 100% of the stuff i saw was a compleate rip off,i know cause im a huge comic fan and i was sneaking the devils evil comics into the house :P
(reply to this comment)
from Visp
Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 11:11

(Agree/Disagree?)

This is really nothing new. When I first got out of the Family and started tearing through the local library in a crazed binge of reading (14 years of reading family shit really starves you for good (or even decent) books to read) I came across an old comic called "Prince Valiant".

http://www.leconcombre.com/serials/comics/img2/val01.gif

http://www.bibliopolis.org/graficos/libros/princevaliant.jpg

http://www.bpib.com/images/fosterpv.gif this one is small, but if you look closely, I'm sure you'll recognize the picture.

There's a lot more, I can't find example right now, but a lot of pictures in the "Mop" which had medieval knights were taken from Prince Valiant comics.
(reply to this comment)

From xolox
Saturday, June 11, 2005, 11:46

(Agree/Disagree?)
What an apt name for their little books, The Mop. Because mopping is exactly what they did, they mopped up a bunch of crap, rotted and twisted it to fit a cult, and the compilation of all that muck became their daily sustenance. Even my dogs have better sence than to eat crap off a used mop.(reply to this comment
from xolox
Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 13:06

(Agree/Disagree?)
Berg took "The Green Door" from a steven King book. Some of it word for word. It's a song that one of the characters sing in a distressful moment.
(reply to this comment)
From roughneck
Tuesday, January 04, 2005, 17:19

(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm a big King fan (in fact, I've read all his books more than once), and I'm just curious as to which book you're referring to, as I can't place your reference.

I always thought that the Eagles classic "Hotel California" was Berg's crib for (at least the plot of) The Green Door. I'll blissfully disregard copyright legislation and repost said lyrics here and see what you think. :) (courtesy http://www.reallyrics.com/Lyrics/E000200010001.asp)

On a dark desert highway
Cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of colitas
Rising up through the air
Up ahead in the distance
I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy, and my sight grew dim
I had to stop for the night
There she stood in the doorway
I heard the mission bell
And I was thinking to myself
This could be Heaven or this could be Hell
Then she lit up a candle
And she showed me the way
There were voices down the corridor
I thought I heard them say

Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely place
Such a lovely place (background)
Such a lovely face
Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year
Any time of year (background)
You can find it here
You can find it here

Her mind is Tiffany twisted
She's got the Mercedes bends
She's got a lot of pretty, pretty boys
That she calls friends
How they dance in the courtyard
Sweet summer sweat
Some dance to remember
Some dance to forget
So I called up the Captain
Please bring me my wine
He said
We haven't had that spirit here since 1969
And still those voices are calling from far away
Wake you up in the middle of the night
Just to hear them say

Welcome to the Hotel California
Such a lovely Place
Such a lovely Place (background)
Such a lovely face
They're livin' it up at the Hotel California
What a nice surprise
What a nice surprise (background)
Bring your alibies

Mirrors on the ceiling
Pink champagne on ice
And she said
We are all just prisoners here
Of our own device
And in the master's chambers
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
Relax said the nightman
We are programed to recieve
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave

(reply to this comment
From Jedran
Tuesday, January 04, 2005, 22:09

(Agree/Disagree?)
That's funny. In the Family they always said that this song was about the Green Door. Go figure.(reply to this comment
From don't think so
Tuesday, January 04, 2005, 14:58

(
Agree/Disagree?)

I highly doubt that Berg read any of Stephen King's novels. Besides, the lyrics in that novel are from a then-popular song sung by Jim Lowe (these are also the lyrics Berg quoted in that Letter):

http://www.smickandsmodoo.com/aaa/1957/greendoor.htm

Considering Berg's character, here would be a more likely source:

http://www.vidxpress.com/behind-the-green-door.html

...it isn't really, though, as the title seems to be in reference to the 1957 song which in turn seems to be in reference to this riddle: http://www.able2know.com/forums/about41888.html

OK... enough time spent on this. Gotta get back to my Green Door job.(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, January 13, 2005, 19:40

(Agree/Disagree?)

though it makes more sence if applied to a "speak easy"(reply to this comment

From xolox
Thursday, January 13, 2005, 19:37

(Agree/Disagree?)

I stand corrected

(reply to this comment

from xolox
Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 13:05

(Agree/Disagree?)
Berg took "The Green Door" from a steven King book. Some of it word for word. It's a song that one of the caracters sings in a distressful moment.
(reply to this comment)
from panich77
Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 07:37

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

I think it's been about 7 years since I googled for anything about my past. I loved the Flash pres. Very nicely done. Excellent research, and tastefully presented. Kudos to you.

On another note I'm strangely comforted by "mama's" response. Because it's a reminder to me that the only people they truly manage to continue scamming are the ones they hooked back in the days, or "new disciples" blinded by new found conviction. My wife was never in TF or anything similar, so trying to get her to realise that TF is even remotely serious is like trying to empty my bathtub with a straw: fun for about two minutes, then just a pain in the ass.

But please, don't waste to much energy on getting even...or maybe we should...Hare Krishna did get their collective asses kicked eventually. Just remember that the one thing TF always wanted, was to destroy any form of personality that could lead to a strong enough conviction or reaction causing one to question or disagree the leaders.

So remember to spend more time building a sweet existance than remorsing a past one.

luv ya guys. we rule =)
(reply to this comment)

From Banshee
Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 09:32

(Agree/Disagree?)

"trying to get her to realise that TF is even remotely serious is like trying to empty my bathtub with a straw: fun for about two minutes, then just a pain in the ass."

OMG, how true! That's hilarious! Thanks for a great laugh!
(reply to this comment

From panich77
Thursday, October 28, 2004, 01:08

(Agree/Disagree?)
you're welcome Banshee =)(reply to this comment
from Baxter
Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 04:52

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
This is nothing new, mate! they've been doing this for fucking donkey's ears. If you ever looked at any of the old true komix books (before they were destroyed as evidence)there was innumerable examples of plagiarism throughout. It was taken from a number of sources, mostly from publications that would have been considered extreme contraband within the family. Since leaving I've taken an interest in popular cult art and cult comic books and every so often I run into another image that gives me a sense of residuous 'deja vu'; but then again not much about them was original.
(reply to this comment)
from xhrisl
Friday, February 13, 2004 - 07:20

(Agree/Disagree?)
Wow, watching the "flash" presentation made me want to wash my eyes out afterward. Thereafter, I had a good laugh remembering how in my ignorant youth I actually used to think, "the system had copied family musical melodies for their own songs." Yep, I wasn't always as smart as I am now LOL!
(reply to this comment)
from no
Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 01:57

(Agree/Disagree?)

Does anyone know who runs and edits this site?


(reply to this comment)

from no
Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 01:14

(Agree/Disagree?)
Good job Tim. I'd hate to be Tamar right about now.
(reply to this comment)
from cool8pack
Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 07:21

(Agree/Disagree?)

Word from the original author of copyrighted material. Do TF know that this can be a prosecutable offence?
My work is ALL, absolutely copyrighted!! Any artist's work is automatically copyrighted just by the fact that he or she created it. That is the current Copyright Law. Furthermore, most all of my work has been published, thus publicly announcing the copyright. By law, no one can use my artwork for any purposes without my permission. That is essential and necessary survival protection for any creative artist.

If you have any further questions about Copyright Law, you can call or email the New York Chapter of the Graphic Artists' Guild.

Rowena

(reply to this comment)

from lacy
Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 23:09

(Agree/Disagree?)

who made this presentation? It's quite amazing and very well done. I am shocked, even being the skeptic I've always been , I did not imagine Tamar and the Family leadership to be so completely unoriginal and pathetic. I wonder if she will receive the "rod " for this. Does anyone know if the same goes for Eman and others? as a kid, I always sort of liked eman's work, especially his "goddesses"!

whoever put this together did a great job and I will show this to as many people as I can. the Family is such a disgusting group of con-artists
(reply to this comment)

From Xeena
Sunday, December 28, 2003, 00:37

(Agree/Disagree?)

I have to comment on this one. My dad is Zeb Geppetto. When I saw the art show I sent it to him. He said it's normal for an artist to get inspiration from other artists & I agree, but not to the point of literally tracing every single brush & stroke, however he wouldn't say anything more on the subject. My dad did go to school for art & Disney wanted to hire him right out of highschool instead he dicided to be a friek who prayes to keys & spawns 17 kids.

Anyways, my dad did have many comic books & cartoon vidoes that he would watch in order to keep up with the new art designs, but rarely did he continuously copy line for line any of his art work, as far as I know. Although he's done other stuff like fraudulant documents etc. Just thought I'd ad my two cents.(reply to this comment

From juniper
Sunday, December 28, 2003, 05:32

(Agree/Disagree?)
I gather your dad is still in the Family?(reply to this comment
From Xeena
Wednesday, December 31, 2003, 23:59

(Agree/Disagree?)
Yes he is!(reply to this comment
From Wolf
Sunday, December 14, 2003, 09:53

(Agree/Disagree?)
Eman may have copied a few things but most of his work was original. There's one major difference between early COG artists and anyone they've got now: art school.

It's ironic that the COG disses education, yet all the best artists, musicians and writers they ever had were "trained by the system". (reply to this comment
From actually...
Sunday, December 14, 2003, 10:06

(
Agree/Disagree?)
Eman did copy some of his art, from Boris Vallejo. If you look at some of Boris' older art (like from the 70's) has some women that turned up in Eman's art, even on some posters.(reply to this comment
from a concerned FGA
Sunday, December 07, 2003 - 17:30

(Agree/Disagree?)
Well, here it goes again... the "attack" message from Mama Maria! These "messages" always come out before Christmas, because this is the F.s biggest financial month! She's really afraid of the Vandari because she may loose some tithe if the "enemy" is allowed to attack. I think she should just use the same message she wrote last year and the 10 years before, there is nothing NEW! I can't wait to see what their "explanation" will be... explaining away the main point of the message... Tamar has broken the LAW! Keep up the "fight" Vandari! The witch is really afraid of you! Cheers!
(reply to this comment)
from Jules
Sunday, December 07, 2003 - 14:48

(Agree/Disagree?)

From Maria regarding this presentation:

*******************

Grapevine 166 (December 1, 2003)

Upcoming GNs
By Mama

Dear Family,
Happy Christmas, dear ones! Peter and I love you all very much, and pray that our wonderful Husband is blessing you in many ways, and will continue to do so in the year ahead.
Recently, our enemies have launched another attack against us, this time targeting the artwork in the GNs, in the hope of discrediting the Word and the things that the Lord has shown us are going on in the spirit world. Some of you may have seen this already, or have received it via e-mail from an apostate. We have written up an explanation that helps to clarify things and put them in perspective, and it will be posted soon in a GN on the MO [members only] site.
We pray that this GN will answer questions that you've had regarding this latest attack, and that it will also keep you vigilant in prayer against the insidious and vicious tactics of the Enemy to hurt the Family and the Words the Lord has given us.
The Lord has also shown us to work on a GN exposing the different aggressive spiritual assaults that the Enemy has been aiming at our Family young people, whether through physical and mental afflictions, intensified spiritual battles, or other such avenues. We can be sure that Satan is mad about the Lord's effort to strengthen the Family, because he's fighting us hard, but thank the Lord that with Him we are more powerful. We have the keys, and if we are faithful to use them in prayer and in praise, then, like the key promise says, "No power of the Evil One can stand against those who hold the keys in desperation and praise."
Please do keep the work on these GNs in your prayers. We love you, and are praying for you. Keep fighting!

Love and prayers in the keys,
Mama

(reply to this comment)

From Piss off Dominatrix
Monday, March 06, 2006, 23:02

(
Agree/Disagree?)

What a deluded twat she is... (Zerby)

as pro dominatrix (an ex family member) I'd love to have her in for a few sessions of humiliation, mental torture, medical play (i'm thinking strait jackets padlocked on my medical chair, needles and some pretty scary stuff) and a bit of a mind fuck... by the time I'm through... it would be pure gold the things I'd be able to get her to confess.... she'd be trumatised for life and the best bit of all... its all perfectly legal...in my country ....so long as you get the person signature... which could be forced after she's hogtied and been prodded a few times with an ultra violet wand up her ass

and I'd even do it for free even though I'm a $1000 an hour professional in the art of BDSM!!!


sorry folks if I sound pervered but thats how pissed off she makes me...(reply to this comment

From panich77
Wednesday, October 27, 2004, 07:08

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

he he...

"our enemies"

we're you're kids!!!! you key worshipping egomaniac.(reply to this comment

From Noodle User
Friday, December 12, 2003, 23:37

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Hmmm... I'm not holding my breath for a response to this. They said the same thing in the "Maria Refuses" letter: "If you choose to post your letter and our response on the Internet, that's perfectly fine; in fact, maybe we'll post it ourselves, for all those who have similar questions".

The next thing they do is tell everyone: "the Lord said that He would prefer that you not deliberately waste your time or allow yourself, out of curiosity, to be dragged through all that negativity and those doubts again that have already been addressed by Peter and me."

Sounds to me like they're stalling for time. They haven't figured out a good relpy yet, so in the meantime, they'll tell the Family that this is an attack of the Enemy and that way, no matter what is said (or not said), Family members will be convinced that it contained nothing but lies.(reply to this comment

From Isislively
Wednesday, December 10, 2003, 07:56

(Agree/Disagree?)

Why is the "clarification and explanation" only being published for members? You'd think if she really wanted to explain and clarify, they'd do so to those asking the original questions, we who she's termed "the enemy"!

And, excuse me, but I've been out since before Berg died, so I don't get it. What the heck are "the keys"? My mom's explanation sounds like so much mumbo jumbo. Could someone clarify this for me?(reply to this comment

From anovagrrl
Wednesday, December 10, 2003, 09:12

(Agree/Disagree?)

Freeatlast posted a reasonably coherant explanation of the keys doctrine at the Exfamily.org website:

http://www.exfamily.org//cgi-bin/gf.pl?fmt=dyn&t=search&m=7&s=&r=search/custom_search_site.shtml

In my line of work, we call this "magical thinking," which is symptomatic of some brain diseases. (reply to this comment

From A forsaken child
Monday, December 08, 2003, 09:57

(
Agree/Disagree?)

I think it is so sad how they have chosen to call us their enemies. Their own children, their own blood, their own product, who they raised. Now because we want to be something different from what they want us to be, because we want to have some answers for what happened to us, because we want some justice for the abuses, we are their enemy.

Perhaps one day they will understand, hear our heartcries, and we will regain our lost families. I like what Linkin Park says in thier song "Numb":

I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless, lost under the surface
I don't know what you're expecting of me
Put under the pressure, of walking in your shoes
(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)

[Chorus:]
I've become so numb
I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
I'm becoming this, all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

Can't you see that you're smothering me?
Holding too tightly, afraid to lose control
'Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart, right in front of you
(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow, just caught in the undertow)
An' every second I waste is more than I can take

[Chorus:]
I've become so numb
I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
I'm becoming this, all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

And I know
I may end up failing too
But I know
You were just like me
With someone disappointed in you

[Chorus:]
I've become so numb
I can't feel you there
Become so tired, so much more aware
I'm becoming this, all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

I've
Become so numb
I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
I've become so numb
I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
(reply to this comment

From Albatross
Sunday, December 07, 2003, 20:26

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
"Let them rave on that men should know them mad." I see Ado got my email. What Enemies would that be Zerby? Since you've already said that it's not the young people who are the enemies, I am very curious as to who exactly it is you are refering to. I can't wait to watch the convoluted and tortured backflips and contortions you are going to perform in order to try to explain this one away. I'm buying chips and beer and getting comfy for the show. (reply to this comment
From I'm an apostate?
Sunday, December 07, 2003, 18:05

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

Oh, gee, I can hardly wait.... Once again she claims it is "[their] enemies launching another attack against [them]." How is something that was posted ON AN EX-MEMBER SITE an attack against them? Talk about a persecution complex! Everything and anything said against them in any way is not viewed as an opinion, but an "attack". "Insidious" and "vicious" attacks at that!

It seems to me that a lot of the latest "GNs" have been their defensive justifications of their beliefs and practices. Seems things just might be starting to unravel for Maria and Peter. Maybe that's why they're scrambling so pathetically to try to patch up the leaks in their broken dyke as quickly as they can. This "warning" sure came out quickly! Ha! All you psych majors can help me with this, but isn't a persecution complex a pretty major symptom of insanity?

(reply to this comment

From Nancy
Sunday, December 07, 2003, 20:30

(Agree/Disagree?)
Paranoia. Illusions of grandeur. Narcissism. (reply to this comment
from boybands
Monday, December 01, 2003 - 17:14

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Family demons: The BoyBand of the spirit world.


Bacchus: The Party animal

Obtherion: The pretty boy (still working through his sexual identity)

Lethargy: The heavyset one (but he's soooo sweet)

Pan: The sensitive one (The only one with real musical talent)

Vandari: The kinda naughty one.

Confusion: (I'm still a little bit unsure about what role he plays)

Opelexicon: (The older brotherly figure)

If you like this band you'll love this other band called ""The greek gods"....they've got this really cute dancer named Adonis...and this other guy named Zeus
(reply to this comment)

From no
Wednesday, January 21, 2004, 14:28

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Amen!

(reply to this comment

From no
Wednesday, January 21, 2004, 14:27

(
Agree/Disagree?)

Amen!

(reply to this comment

From Joe H
Monday, December 01, 2003, 18:58

(Agree/Disagree?)
Hey don't knock Bacchus, I worship him every weekend, then during the week it's back to Mammon.(reply to this comment
From banal_commentator
Monday, December 01, 2003, 20:09

(Agree/Disagree?)
hahhaha exactly. (reply to this comment
from Mir
Monday, December 01, 2003 - 14:16

(Agree/Disagree?)
HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! AAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA! Bloody hell! this is just side splittingly funny!!! What LOSERS!!!!! How pathetic are they?
(reply to this comment)
from highonhigh
Friday, November 28, 2003 - 17:05

(Agree/Disagree?)

The big deal they make about Jesus giving them especial powers thru the "keys", they make it sound like it was a special revelation just for TF. But it is also a rip off of somedody else's writings. Two Christian writers Jack W. Hayford & Sam Middlebrook wrote books on the subject of the Keys of the Kingdom in the late 80s. Now when I left in 96 that was nothing on the "keys " They came out with this "only for us" revelation after 96. It is easy for Zerby & her team to get the credit from other people's work because inside TF people are not going to find out. I was amazed when I left TF of so much stuff that I thought it was "Family Orginals" & it was just a twisted copy from someone else's hard work.
(reply to this comment)

from Cultinvator
Friday, November 28, 2003 - 15:23

(Agree/Disagree?)

That's just the tip of the iceberg... Any dramatic originality in berg's writings is such a rip off from great thinkers of his day even styles of speaking reflect:

A generation listening to "The Doors" will start worshipping keys

Great exposee! I suspect some insider work... good job! or perhaps a basic familiarity with that particular type of art.




(reply to this comment)

from AUSSIE
Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 22:31

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

The cool thing about this flash presentation is not just that it proves that they copy their artwork and lie about it...that's bad and all, but the real thing that strikes you is that their prophecies are describing in detail the plagiarized art that they are copying...and they claim is comes from the Lord!! What a load of crap...its as plain as day that they are liars and fakes, they can no more hear from God then the tooth fairy...

Also note most of the images were of demonic source, even the angelic images started as demonic...but what plagiarism...what fakery....is this doesnít prove that they are full of it, nothing will...
(reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll
Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 21:18

(Agree/Disagree?)
Ok, let's be fair here. I mean, perhaps, just perhaps, Tamar got her "visions" of the pictures from the Internet? Then it would all fall into place, right? She was inspired by Jesus where to search, she clicked on the link, and the vision appeared before her eyes, and Jesus gave her the name of the demon, or explained the vision to her in detail. It's possible, right?
(reply to this comment)
From Bella
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 22:10

(Agree/Disagree?)
LOL sis you crack me up sometimes!(reply to this comment
from Jules
Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 09:37

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Some of the young people in the Family are apparently claiming that the quotes from Tamar in this flash presentation are not accurate, or have been changed. This is complete nonsense. Whoever created this presentation quoted Tamar verbatim.

Just for the record, I have uploaded the entire interview with Tamar here: http://www.movingon.org/documents/TamarsInterviewZine_41.pdf


(reply to this comment)

From xhrisl
Friday, November 28, 2003, 03:01

(Agree/Disagree?)
Luv you Jules...you always bring the research to back up your claims. Thanks.(reply to this comment
From neez
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 22:07

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

I like the part about how she was 'awakened' to the wonderful world of pencil(tracing) by someone.

"I didnít really start feeling or becoming aware of my art spirit helpers until I started working with pencil... I was truly amazed that I could actually use pencil and the pictures were coming out better than my previous line work!"

...lol read 'when I started using pencil(& a lightbox) I was amazed how much better I got'. I guess there really is a holy spirit of plaguarism.(reply to this comment

From Noodle User
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 13:18

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Agree/Disagree?)

I wonder if our peers at the Family Youth Group have thought about the fact that most all of the excerpts from the GNs and Tamar's interview have the reference right below them. I highly doubt that whoever took the time to put this presentation together (without adding any of his/her own opinion or commentary to it, mind you) would be foolish enough to alter what had been published in the GN and proceed to include the reference for any one in possesion of the literature to prove him/her wrong.

Also, I find it highly unlikely that the prophecy was given before the painting was seen. Having worked at company dealing with stock photography (with over 1 million images in our archives from a couple thousand photographers) I can testify to the difficulty of finding a picture that is an exact match to a prior description. Even more so, given the fact that many of the visions and prophecies have coresponding paintings from the same artist (i.e. Boris Vallejo).(reply to this comment

From Cultinvator
Friday, November 28, 2003, 15:36

(Agree/Disagree?)
If she had any 'oversight' or co-workers or anyone who had any interest in the world of art, it seems to me like they would have been interested in seeing the process of her workings or maybe even conspired to be a 'deceiver yet true' ripping chohort. (reply to this comment
From banal_commentator
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 15:41

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Those sad children in the cult. Their response to all this is: "so what, I copied art too." One of the more dilluded ones Jules Connelly even went so far as to say it "strengthed her faith" ????!!!!!!! Run that by me again. Another one said that those demons have been around for a long time so it just shows how TF is right on track. I myself am getting a prophecy from Jesus to counter all these doubts: "Have faith in me my children. Don't listen to the enemys doubts. I inspired Boris Vallejo just how I inspired Tamar. I mean c'mon I'm is a busy guy I can't think of new scenarios for every different artist. Sometimes I just have to mass-produce my visions and little whispers." (Mamas comments) Sweet, sweet busy Jesus.

Its all coming clear how they got their Vandari vision. One of them used the devils tool (the internet) to get the lords msg across by describing detail for detail some fantasy picture of monsters and half-naked girls. I do that too for my friends sometimes like if they haven't seen a movie. But I dont go and print out hundreds of copies and bore thousands of people with my mediocre horror. (reply to this comment

From Thank you
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 10:34

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Thanks for adding that link. Those quotes are verbatim. The extremely ironic thing is that one of the Family's young person's "defence" about this presentation is actually confirmation that Tamar was lying, but for some reason that point was lost on him. The Family young person was posting part of Tamar's interview where she mentions using a "reference" for the Cathar girl's hair, which was not included in the presentation. He claims this is proof that she did admit to copying, and therefore the rest of the presentation must be inaccurate. But Tamar goes on to say the Lord told her to STOP using the "reference" for the hair, and so she proceeded to draw the picture WITHOUT the "reference." Yet every aspect of the rest of the picture is copied.... Hmmmm.... Seems to me that they are scrambling just a little too fast to refute this presentation, so much so that they are using "incriminating" evidence to refute it! They also seemed to pass over the fact that using "reference", and actually TRACING the pictures are two very different things.

Quote by Tamar: (The underlining and bold was put in there by the Family young person. Notice he didn't bold the "Don't" and the "without" words. Hmmmm....) My first "spiritual experience" with my art was when I was doing the cover for the Cathar GN. I was drawing the Cathar girl at the top of the picture, and using some reference to help me in the drawing of her hair. I was working away, when very clearly I heard a girl's voice say, "Let go, let go, don't use the reference." I thought to myself, "Mmmm, that's funny," and silly me, I just continued using the reference. Again I heard this same voice, "Let go, Tamar, let go. Don't use the reference." It was at this point I literally got goose bumps all over, it was as if I could feel her leaning over my shoulder directing me. So I proceeded to draw the hair without using the reference, and it was as if someone else was working through my fingers. It's difficult to describe, but it was like I was in a detached sense almost watching my own hand draw, but I wasn't controlling my hand. I was simply "letting go" and watching it draw.

And, in case anyone is interested, I found the picture that Tamar used to "reference" the hair, and if you look to compare the picture with the Cathar girl, it doesn't seem that she actually did stop using "the reference."

Link: http://rivendell.fortunecity.com/redguard/636/royo/03.html(reply to this comment

From Thank you
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 10:38

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Oops! For some reason, after I posted this, the bold that the Family young person had done didn't show up on the comment. Basicly he had just highlighted all the words "referece", but didn't highlight any of the "don't use" or "proceeded without" words. Sorry about that, I must have done something wrong with the posting. (reply to this comment
from placebo
Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 08:11

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"some day I hope to make millions in a little beat robbery, or wholesale piracy"....Mike Skinner(The Streets)
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from tinaz
Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 20:26

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I agree with Hannablack. It bothered me that the participants at FY totally side stepped the issue that the prophecies seemed to be based on this artist art, then Tamar just simply duplicated it. I understand that artist copy other artist, even if they don't like to admit it. It's just so obviouse the prophecies were based on these particular pieces of fantasy art, it would be scarry if it wasn't so laughable.
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from banal_commentator
Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 16:07

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Hahahaha. The nerve of them OMG. I wish someone could send this to Tamar and see what she has to say for herself. They'd probably come back with some wacko prophecy from on high to rekindle the shaken faith of the flock. This should be posted on Family youth.
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from porceleindoll
Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 04:42

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It is interesting to know that some present Family members have known about this for years and are not apparently bothered by the lack of integrity, at least from the couple of things I've read from them. The few I have read comments from give the impression that it is a commonly well-known fact within the group that her artwork is stolen or copied. Hmmm, what does that say?
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From Hanna_Black
Saturday, November 22, 2003, 14:51

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I wasn't surprised to see those reactions of Family members, how it didn't bother them. Family members who read that will see it as a "doubt" trying to "weaken their faith", thus "washing it with word" (aka brainwashing) so that they can "see things clearly again." Still, I think it might make a slight difference in someone's life and hopefully open their deluded eyes to see just how strongly they are living a lie. I saw some of the comments on their silly little group and it doesn't seem to have affected them at all. To them its just that she copied art like other students do. They can't even SEE that the prophecies are BASED on the art (so it seems to me, tho I could be wrong) and then Tamar goes and says "its only Geezus!" Those guys are beyond help, they will just rot in their own crap!(reply to this comment

From finally thinking on my own
Saturday, November 22, 2003, 08:18

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I know! It's beyond belief! Here is one comment from a SG from the yahoo "youth group": (note: spelling mistakes were already there)
"If any of this was suposed to stumble anyone, one thing that occurs to me is that it almost even strengthens my faith. Looking at it logically, its like those demons havenít existed all throughout time, and that other people hadnít seen them before, its that they were revealled to us at that particular point in time. So anyone else all along whenever or wherever couldīve pictured that too, if the Lord wanted them too, our spirt helpers are real, and we are in tune with them, just as demons are real, and those that worship them are in tune, and most likely can see visions of them too. That would serve more to testify to the veracity of the demons and what they look like, as its like a second witness. I donít believe we are the only ones that can comunicate with the spirit world. Iím sure there are many people who actively comunicate with those of the netherworld. Just as many have also testified to having seen those who passed away, or visions, angels or whatever it may be.
I believe the "ideas" dont come from Tamar or any other painting or artist. The ideas, the inspiration, the visions, do come from above, from Jesus and His helpers. Putting that on paper into a concrete, picture, to help everyone else who is not actually seeing the vision, is a bit more dificult, and one can "copy" parts of pictures, or painting to help.
And yeah, its not a "New" revelation, that some parts of pictures by Tamar have been coppied, so I supose you could say its known. fact is, Iím sure she (Tamar) and others, check and recheck its picture with the Lord, too make sure it portrays what HE wants it to portray, and that each "copied" piece is in essence going to help those of us who see it too better understand what He is tying to say through the Gn or whatever it may be.
Just my few cents. Iím NOT preaching at anybody here, just saying what I think about the artwork."

All I can say is good luck with that "free thinking" you've got there! (sarcasm intended)

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From turelx
Friday, April 04, 2008, 05:12

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you are fucking pathetic!(reply to this comment
From Vicky
Saturday, November 22, 2003, 09:22

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

What a difference a few months makes - A year ago I would have swallowed that line of defense as well.

This whole thing has made me extremely angry that I was so naive and truly believed all of these things for so long.

Contrary to many of you I do still believe in a Spiritual dimension of some kind so I am not completely averse to the idea of dark influences, etc, but the thing that deeply offends me is that my parent's and sibling's lives are run by people whose "prophecies" are just a bunch of tosh rattled out without any integrity at all.

I can't believe that Fam leadership would have the audacity to claim that they are God's true followers and the cream of the crop and all that junk, unsuspecting "revolutionaries" clinging to their every word in order to be close to God. What a scam it's turned out to be, and I wish more people in TF would be able to see that - but, honestly, did we ever expect anything but this type of reaction to this expose???

The ironic thing is that if any Fam teens/YAs were caught looking at that type of artwork online they would most certainly be told that it's demonic, ungodly and a glorification of the Devil, blah, blah, blah, and reprimanded for wasting time and polluting their souls... ha ha ha!!!

Let's hope this issue encourages some Fam members to question what Tf is heading towards and maybe more people will decide to make the break; Or is that wishful thinking...? (reply to this comment

From Cultinvator
Friday, November 28, 2003, 15:48

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I think that with all the 'dirty' ideas that were used to seduce the sheep into the fold, Berg had an intruiguing fascination with wichcraft which is in my opinion according to the wicca perspective a philosophy which does not claim exclusivity to what is right and just. Berg somehow managed to staple some of the raw elements of ritual and cult coherance on to his 'born again diety' and then turn around and write "the devil hates sex' but we somehow are all the witches and wizards of ahh...lol!

Of course they're god's witches right? In a few years so much more will come to surface about every aspect of this group's structure.

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From KD
Tuesday, November 25, 2003, 12:37

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Just makes you wonder, if they have the audacity of lying over something plain and simple like art, they certainly don't have a problem with misleading their followers into other more important things such as tithing, prophecy, locations and just about everything.

My sis sent the link to a friend of hers that is still in TF and his reply was, "I wish I could get my hands on whomever it was that rat on us". My sis wrote back saying "it really is to bad that they're rating out on someone who is betraying you" (sarcasm intended).

Just proves their really is no limit for a delusional mind.

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From KD
Tuesday, November 25, 2003, 12:37

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Just makes you wonder, if they have the audacity of lying over something plain and simple like art, they certainly don't have a problem with misleading their followers into other more important things such as tithing, prophecy, locations and just about everything.

My sis sent the link to a friend of hers that is still in TF and his reply was, "I wish I could get my hands on whomever it was that rat on us". My sis wrote back saying "it really is to bad that they're rating out on someone who is betraying you" (sarcasm intended).

Just proves their really is no limit for a delusional mind.

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from In a Ranting Mood
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 22:32

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Not content to steal the value of their offspring's labor, they misappropriate the raw materials for the images they will force-feed their minds. Interesting how they dulled all the musculature on the women and gave everybody but the demons smiles, while the original drawings had a range of facial expressions. Just the drawings of the smiles gave me flashbacks to when I not only had to endure the torture but was forced to smile about it. Maria's thing about the demons, to people saying that they're exaggerated or made up that "That is a lie" is just a doozie. Do they even know the meaning of the word "lie" anymore?

So parasitic. Like Jules said recently, their idea of becoming more prosperous is to leech off the vulnerabilities of people who already are prosperous. Such a feeble imagination. Instead of seeing and cultivating the human potential of their children, maybe letting those of us with the inclinations learn to draw or to make money, we are sentenced to be their peons and they will suck the blood of somebody else not unlucky enough to have turned all over to them yet or had it all taken from the get go, and take *their* work and their money, or better said, make us try to figure out how to get it and send it to WS.

Maria and Peter, get off your disease-spreading behinds and work for your own money for once instead of having "Dad" be a sock for you. I mean, asking for special gifts?? I guess you think people don't think you already dip from the pot of gold you control. I guess you want to have some part of the money that you could say really was for you and not misappropriated. Do you really think people are dumb enough to know you can make "Dad" say whatever you want? You're not even good ventriloquists. If you worked at McDonalds you would be adding value to society instead of subtracting like you do now.
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from Blondie_B78
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 16:12

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Brilliant presentation! Just makes you wonder how much in TF is actually original. Most of the more "orginal" insanity must have died with Berg. Zerby doesn't drink enough to come up with much on her own, does she?

Between the art, music and all the "borrowed" software they offer TF every couple months there must be enough evidence for someone to kick their ass. WS might even have to raise the tithe to cover legal costs. I'm sure the designated gifts "Dad" has been requesting for dear "Mama & Peter" will come in handy. LOL!

Of course, there's a good chance that TF reaction will be to chatise Tamar for her dishonesty and for dabbling in the "works of the enemy". Look out for "The Tamar Series" coming soon!
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From Sydney
Monday, March 06, 2006, 23:26

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heheheh...so true!!! man I would die to be able to acess the members only site...pity the only people I still know in the family is my sister, she'd never give it to me.... being that she thinks I'm the devil and all those other fancy names the TF is coming up with to call ex-members and people they don't like...

does anyone happen to have access to it?

would love to see what they are saying in response to all this.(reply to this comment

From Cultinvator
Friday, November 28, 2003, 15:40

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I'm taking a "Religion in America" class this semester and I can assure you that "Berg's" beliefs are not original. He at least was more subtle in his mixings and 'cut and paste' tailoring of the Family Dogma that Maria and the ripping prophets.

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From Nick
Friday, November 21, 2003, 17:07

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What did you mean by "designated gifts "Dad" has been requesting for dear "Mama & Peter""???

Was there some letter that came out asking for the family to send them more money or something?

I have not been around any members in a long time so probably missed that memo. (reply to this comment

From Blondie_B78
Friday, November 21, 2003, 19:15

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Here you go:

88. (Dad speaking:) I want to explain to you about another area of giving that has also dwindled way down in recent years, to where it's practically nonexistent, and that's gifts to Mama and Peter. You might think it's the same as giving to WS, but it's not.
89.
When Mama and Peter have a special project that they feel needs to be done, or something the Lord shows them to do --and I'm talking here about projects that benefit you, dear Family--they rely on those gifts that you have sent, designated for them, in order to have the funds to make those projects, extra gifts, or support a reality. Anytime something comes up that isn't supported by the regular WS budget--which just covers the essentials, it doesn't allow for many extra projects or gifts or needs--they rely on those gifts that were designated for them in order to give it out.
90.
Any gifts to WS automatically go into the budgets for WS, the translators, the Homes on sensitive fields, the pubs printing, the boards, and the multitude of other things that are supported by WS. But when a gift comes in designated to Mama and Peter--or it used to be Mama and me-Ėthat gift is set aside for them to invest in whatever project the Lord lays on their heart, or to send to extra needy situations. And when there are no gifts in that fund, they're very limited in what they can do if the Lord shows them a needy situation or something that needs attention but would require some funding. So when you consider where to send your offerings, consider them as well. Probably most of you didn't realize that it's a separate designation, but it is, and I thought you'd want to know that. (End of message from Dad.)
End of text box.

91. (Mama:) Dear Family, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you might not have been giving offerings to WS because you genuinely didn't feel you needed to, in light of Dad's comments about CTPs. That is possible. But I hope this new counsel helps you to see that while Dad thought that might be the case when he was here on Earthā he has definitely changed his mind now. So please do not continue to think of the time you invest in a CTP project as your special offering; that's no longer acceptable.

I recently asked someone who had seen the latest videos where the money came from that Ricky received as an "inheritance" (or whatever it was) and was told, "Oh, that wasn't TF's money. It was from designated gifts sent to Mama & Peter..." Hey, I think he has as much right to ask his mom for money as any of us do. Not that our parents have any. :-) (reply to this comment

from DeMan
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 15:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

You know, I really do not see how some random reader could have noticed those similarities and put all that together. I mean one or two pictures maybe, but for someone to have all of those pictures compiled along with the original artists name and location of the on line print they would have to have inside information.

I think that it had to be made by someone inside WS or someone that works close to Tamar. Someone that both knew her art well and knew where she got her "inspiration" from.

I really hope that whoever exposed this was able to get some sort of blackmail from them at least. Not only that but the presentation was extremely compelling and well done.

This totally undermines the value of the so-called prophecy that they have been getting and will make people wonder about the rest of what they say is true. I believe that this may be the most powerful piece of evidence for young people that are still in the family.
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From neez
Friday, November 21, 2003, 19:20

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
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I'm guessing someone found her 'Favourites'.

Saved under 'My Prophecy Pix - Large demons & various evil dudes'.(reply to this comment

from exister
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 15:20

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Boris has just been notified via his website, though it's probably old news to him.
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from Jerseygirl
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 14:49

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Well what's new!! Not only is most of TF's music and "inspired original melodies" ripped off ,but now their artwork is plagiarized as well. It goes along with their whole mentality that because they are so "seperate" from society at large, they can do whatever they want. I guess abusing children got old and so it's on to the world of sampling other peoples gifts! What a bunch of silly little ungifted freaky people.
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From banal_commentator
Saturday, November 22, 2003, 00:10

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on somewhat of the same subject, Berg often tried to pass of his stupid rantings as original or revolutionary. He had his whole theory about sex "The devil hates sex. But we like sex, we like sex, we like sex" blah blah. Yeah, well Freud was telling us that almost 100 years ago and believed that not liking sex was the issue. The idea that sex is good and healthy has been the general consensus for quite some time and was made even more popular at the time he was babbling his crap (60s/70s). Nice try, but nothing new there. However, we must give Berg some credit; I never heard of a personality who advocated having sex with children. (reply to this comment
From Sir Rantalot
Saturday, November 22, 2003, 13:02

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Too true! Ever heard of DR. Wilheim Reich? His extensive studies showed that Judeo-Christian sexual hangups are directly responsible for most western mental neurosis, this was the '30s.


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from Anthony
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 13:43

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I'd like to contact the original artists, point them to the Flash presentation and ask them if they plan to sue or take some sort of action. There may be legal issues which will make a law suite useless, but they al least should be made aware of this, if they are still alive.
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From Perhaps....
Friday, November 21, 2003, 13:56

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It's a good idea, Anthony. I wonder if perhaps you might want to wait a couple of weeks to let as many people as possible see this thing. Besides the Family possibly getting sued, once the original artists are notified, this whole comilation thing will also have to get taken down, no? (reply to this comment
From Joe H
Friday, November 21, 2003, 15:29

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No, I don't think it would. The original artists are credited for their work, and Tim and Jules aren't making any money off of exhibiting it, so I don't think it would matter. But I could be wrong, where's a boastful lawyer like Nan when you need her?(reply to this comment
From Nancy
Monday, November 24, 2003, 11:28

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That's my understanding of copyright law, as well. If the artist is named and the use is not a commercial one where the user is profiting, then I think theyíre protected by "fair use". I think itís the same as using quotation, you must cite the author and cannot profit from copyrighted work unless you have license to do so.(reply to this comment
from tommyknocker
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:23

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The thing with the fingers is that if you examine the original artwork, the woman actually has only five fingers. Go to the site with the scan and save it to disk then open it with an editor and magnify it. She has long fingernails in the original which coupled with the shading makes it look like 6 fingers. Tamar apperently didn't even notice this when when she traced it (maybe bad light-table). One other point is that Tamars trace is in black and white where she copied the darks as outline only. At least with the original color artwork one can figure out what is a finger and what is a nail. Any real artist would have noticed this and at least traced it correctly. This shows me that she can't draw for beans and is so used to tracing that she doesn't even examine the original before she traces. Being an artist myself I know we often get ideas from other artwork but you don't trace something and not give the original artist some credit. Thats pretty low. I noticed as well the she even left the traces with unproportioned figures. I thought before she was just a mediocre artist who drew a bit out of proportion but now I see she was a terrible tracer who couldn't even fix a piece.

Imbarassing
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From Hanna_Black
Friday, November 21, 2003, 12:36

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No Shit, Sherlock...

BTW, its spelled : *Embarrassing

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From tommyknocker
Friday, November 21, 2003, 12:44

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Oh, THAT was why I should have went to school. So I could learn to spell. :) Somehow the integrated spell checker sort of erases my post and I have to type the darned thing all over again so I didn't want to risk it. NO! I'm not gonna copy and paste from MsWord after I run the spell check from there.(reply to this comment
From Hanna_Black
Friday, November 21, 2003, 12:47

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Why not? At least you wouldn't Imbarass yourself... :-)(reply to this comment
From tommyknocker
Friday, November 21, 2003, 14:15

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Auch! That's harsh! Wouldn't want to meet you in a dark library. :P(reply to this comment
From Hanna_Black
Friday, November 21, 2003, 15:24

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...oooh, I bet you would! ;-)(reply to this comment
from Joe H
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:19

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Well that's just great, all this time I thought Boris Vallejo was truly talented and who knew? It was just Jesus inspiring him! That, or Boris died and is now Tamar's spirit helper.
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from Lauren
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:09

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For Maria or WS to say that these other artists were inspired would be pushing their luck. I've clicked on a few of the links and then browsed some of the other art these artists were doing. I realize art is subjective and different people have different tastes, but some of the stuff these artists they were copying from were doing is grotesque.

I also wonder how it is they had the gall to claim to be such pure channels when they are obviously surfing through the sites that contain this stuff. I remember awhile back, there was a whole prophecy GN or FSM series that came out, and one of the things they brought up was how the channels in Maria's home are purer than those out on the field because they minimize any ungodly influence in their lives. There was one particular story of one girl who tried reading a system novel but then stopped because it was affecting her channel.

If reading a system book can cause you to "muddy the waters" so that they are not "pure", what does surfing through picture after picture of demons and blood and gore do to someone supposedly hearing words from God?

Maria is the one that approves the art ideas. Great! So either Maria knew what was going on, or else she let "prophecy" after "prophecy" get published for the Family that was nothing but someone's description of a painting. It should really make Family members wonder what ELSE has been sent through the wine-taster as God's word and in reality has been nothing but someone's subconscious and not-so-subconscious desires &/or imagination being turned into required reading for an unsuspecting "flock".

After this, I can honestly say that there is nothing that the Family does or says that will surprise me.
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From Tim R
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 21:58

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

No kidding Lauren, on Luis Royo's web site, the one they got the "reference" for the Cathar girls hair from, it has this quote as an introduction:


"For some years now, the images that have been appearing on my drawing board end up in many different media. It is now the right moment to open the window I have next to this board, through which the light of the Sun god and the dark energies of the Moon goddess bath me. Then, when I throw these images into the air so that they can fly, they will get inside your house along with all their dark intentions. It is the right time the befriend that winged-sandal Hermes known as Internet."



Pretty cool huh? This is the guy that Tamar uses as "inspiration" for the GN covers. It kind of pisses me off, we didn't get to surf dark web sites when I was in the cult. Heck, I even remember having to ask for prayer because they caught me with a Lionel Ritchie tape. It just ain't fair.

If the Family lets Tamar get away with this, then they should at least apologize to Eman for making such a big deal about one measly Chinese demon. (reply to this comment

From Mir
Monday, December 01, 2003, 14:24

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LOL!!!!! (reply to this comment
From neez
Sunday, November 23, 2003, 22:42

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Now that's a good idea for protecting a copyright.. Put a timed-release curse on it.(reply to this comment
From neez
Friday, November 21, 2003, 19:04

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I guess they figured it was the last place anyone would look.(reply to this comment

from Hanna_Black
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:11

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Shocking! I mean, I knew WS was made up of a bunch of phoney freaks already, but this is the whole deal black on white! What a bunch of losers! Wonder what would happen if you showed this to Family members...?
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from enigma
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:00

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Tim, I nominate this for the featured article area. If this doesn't debunk their false prophecies than nothing will. They will probably come up with some excuse that these other artists were inspired. BS.
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from DarkAngel
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 09:58

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The Fam. at it's best ,what a group. How long how Lord ???

I hope Jesus quickly cuts his connections with Tamar before she accused Him of more sickenings messages .
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from porceleindoll
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 04:14

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

That was too coincidental. At first I thought that perhaps the Family could say "Oh wow!! PTL! The Lord has revealed these same demons to others!! What a confirmation!" But after awhile it was just way too obvious that someone is doing some big-time scamming.

Do either Tamar or WS or anyone up in the 'higher ranks' have any sort of conscience. I would love to know! This combined with the tithing article Lauren wrote really disturb me, the incredible amount of lying, coverup and deceit going on.

There is one person in the upper echelon whom I greatly admire, though I have been out of communication for a few years, as communications had degraded to "How's the weather...", but I would so love to contact them and hear freely and honestly what they think about this stuff.
(reply to this comment)

from krystine
Friday, November 21, 2003 - 03:55

(Agree/Disagree?)
Is it me or is the family turning into an occult? This weird demon-shit is extremely creepy almost as if they now have a fascination with the dark side. And to think I used to be accused of listening to the devil and thinking negative thoughts.
(reply to this comment)
From lacy
Saturday, December 13, 2003, 22:40

(Agree/Disagree?)
it's so true. Looking at those pictures makes me wonder. Since when is the Family so into the dark side? Copying music and art is something not so talented people automatically do, but why does she use such strange sources? it's like she takes the evil looking creatures and tries to trace them into something good looking and everyone gets inspired from this?(reply to this comment
From DarkAngel
Friday, November 21, 2003, 09:47

(Agree/Disagree?)

Yes same thing for me ,actually all this fascination for the dark side in the gn is one of the main reason why I stoped reading that junk and decided it was time to move on.

Well Berg was into sexy Godesses waiting on him for a fuck and Maria is into demons ,what a great couple no wonder things are going from bad to worst .Now it could be a good time for the ones with fascination for the derelics to join in and get a first hand study of the group! Ha! (reply to this comment

From exister
Friday, November 21, 2003, 13:32

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)

Nice derelict reference DarkAngel.

Boy, Tamar is a way better tracer than I was at age five! Apparently the only original art the fam has come up with is those Goofy, Eman Artist Jesus faces.

For those naive enough to believe in spiritual visions this revelation may be shocking, but any rational thinker knows that originality is rare even in legitimate human culture, how much more so in wacky cults with a strong motive to string people along?

So as a kid I always wondered why everyone was so obsessed with demons and why I was getting exorcised every week. Reading that GN drivel brought it all back. Thanks (sarcasmo!)(reply to this comment

From Hanna_Black
Friday, November 21, 2003, 13:46

(Agree/Disagree?)
Speaking of Eman Artist, (another known pervy) his "famous" picture of Jesus is a TOTAL copy of the portrait Angus McBride did in his illustrated Bible...the hand, the clothes, the look...everything.(reply to this comment

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