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from Frank Monday, June 28, 2004 - 06:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Laura, reading your post, was extremely comforting..... I just recently joined this site, for the very same reasons...... I thought I was reading my "unposted" thoughts..... I'd like to ad, though to your title: Tired , Lost and All Alone" ................ (reply to this comment)

from Laura Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 12:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Thank you to everyone who responded to this article. The compassion and empathy you showed touched me deeply. I have my good days and my bad days and I usually just withdraw during the low times. I read the article over again the next day after I posted it and thought I must have been insane to write something so personal and vulnerable. I almost just deleted it right away. Having a place where I could write all this down anonymously and receive such support meant a great deal though, and for reasons I can’t explain here, this has made the challenges in my life now seem a bit more worth the toll they have taken on me. What has been very interesting to me is that simply crystallizing my thoughts and expressing them without worrying about how what I might be saying would affect anyone I told this to has enabled me, for the first time in many years, to actually access my feelings. I have felt a smoldering resentment and anger, just below the surface, for a long, long time. For the first time in years I was able to break through that and I felt my own pain and grief at its’ raw essence. It was like being able to breathe again. I did feel guilty and embarrassed that someone knew who I was, but despite my fear, their acceptance and support, knowing just how messed up I am, has been perhaps the most liberating thing of all. I’ve done a lot of thinking since writing this and reading what you all said. GoldenMic, you are right in that I have to first deal with my addictions. I will never be able to move past the pain unless I first have the courage to face it and feel it. I think that you are absolutely right that to change costs something and I am going to have to do things I may not want to do in order to become healthy and simply to stay alive. I am going to have to move out of my comfort zone and as you said, take some risks, in order to get better. However I am never going to be able to do a twelve-step program because I disagree, on a fundamental level, with the religious aspects of the steps. I do not believe “that a Power greater than [myself can] restore [me] to sanity”. I believe that only I know what is truly best for me and only I can restore myself. I will never “Make a decision to turn [my] will and [my life] over to the care of God”. I already tried that and I believe that to turn my will and life over to the care of anyone is a cop out. I, and I alone, own my life and will. I do not want “God [to] remove all these defects of character.” or to “ask Him to remove [my] shortcomings.” I am who I am, the good the bad and the ugly. If I don’t accept all parts of myself, how can I ever expect to truly be accepted by anyone else. I will never ever again “Seek through prayer and meditation to improve [my] conscious contact with God … praying only for knowledge of His will for [me] and the power to carry that out.” It would be hypocritical of me and, I believe strongly, unhealthy for me to go back to that dependence and submissive state that I have fought so hard to break free from. I am the person who is in charge of me and I must take responsibility solely myself for who I am and what I do. I have begun looking for alternatives and two that I have found are Women for Sobriety http://www.womenforsobriety.org/ and Secular Organizations for Sobriety http://www.secularhumanism.org/sos/ . From what I have seen, both of these programs are much more in line with my own beliefs, but I wanted to ask if anyone knew anything specifically about them. I know that when you actively seek support it involves a level of trust and openness and you can become especially susceptible to predators and exploitation. Something that I have begun to realize is how much I excuse people in my life for their behavior because of the Family. I consistently make excuses for people and in many ways I have become an enabler. I have chosen to let my family walk all over me for years and I have chosen to put up with things I should have never tolerated. I feel very guilty about setting even the most basic of boundaries and when that results in temper tantrums, I blame myself for not being “understanding” enough. I think I do this because I have been making excuses for myself. No one and nothing “makes” me abuse substances, be bitchy or self-destructive. I choose that behavior myself. Even when I don’t know why make the choices I do, I am still responsible for them. If I really want to move on then it is up to me to do the work in understanding why and the first step is owning my own behavior. Also, I think you are right Fmrjoyish that I have a serious self-esteem problem. I honestly hate myself. I am always anticipating rejection, because that’s what I expect. I have never known unconditional love or acceptance and my fear of intimacy and closeness has crippled my relationships with other people. I don’t know if this is right, but I think I need to earn my own respect before I can feel confident again. To me that means making those difficult decisions and making choices I am proud of. I think it also means being honest with myself about who I really am. I can’t accept myself if I don’t face who and what I am. I have accomplished a lot, but because I feel I hide so much of myself, the shame in my self-deception cancels out and overwhelms any pride I might feel. Above all else, I want to say thank you to all those who told me that I am not alone in my struggle with these things. Just knowing that there are other people who are there too and who really know exactly what it is like to feel so overwhelmed, damaged and flawed and yet who still choose to make something of their lives, who get up and face each day, and that there are so many who choose not to let the bad guys win gives me hope and courage in a way that words cannot express. A friend who I love dearly has a tattoo which reads “that which nourishes me consumes me”. I feel similarly about my past and my link with you all. That which consumes me has nourished me and has given me hope again. Thank you so much for caring. (reply to this comment)

From Joe H Tuesday, May 04, 2004, 20:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Awesome! I loved the paragraph that contains this quote: "It would be hypocritical of me and, I believe strongly, unhealthy for me to go back to that dependence and submissive state that I have fought so hard to break free from. I am the person who is in charge of me and I must take responsibility solely myself for who I am and what I do. " Great attitude! My head is bloody but unbowed, too!(reply to this comment)

From GoldenMic Tuesday, May 04, 2004, 19:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Laura, I can see what you are saying about traditional 12-step recovery, and I think you're right to accept the premise of taking steps to sobriety without having to accept much of the language. In truth, I would NEVER have been able to accept any reference to God or "turning my life over" for the first ten years after I left. Nowadays, after having developed my own very personal vision of God as a benevolent and loving father figure, I am less triggered by such language, but it would have been very counter-productive for me before then. I am real pleased for you that this writing experience has helped. Time after time, it becomes part of the healing process to let it out, and say what needs saying. At the same time, many of my ex-cult friends and I still have times when we start wishing we could "put the jinnee back in the bottle", and that may happen for you, too. I think, though, that the process of healing is always worth it, assuming we live through it, and I am not certain it can be avoided anyway, so I am just real happy for you that you found a place of support, and I hope you just keep on coming back. Mike M.(reply to this comment)

from dave Sunday, May 02, 2004 - 01:55 (Agree/Disagree?) You're not alone Laura. I've come to realize that we ex-fam kids will never quite shake off the negative infulences from our upbringing in the cult.. at least not as much or as fast as we would like. I know a lot of us who feel the same way every day. Thanks for putting all this into words. Hang in there. Dave (reply to this comment)

from xhrisl Saturday, May 01, 2004 - 07:15 (Agree/Disagree?) Dear Laura, You have made no mistake in surmising that life is a long walk uphill. People for the most part a petty, small minded and mean. Yet, every once in awhile you will be fortunate enough to find those who are not---if you have not met them yet do not despair. You are in the company of many people here who can relate to your experiences---in this ‘companionship of shared misery’ as I affectionately refer to our collective childhoods you will indeed find a microcosm of the world at large. Yes, they’re those here as well who represent the less desirable qualities of the human condition, and then there are those whom with it is hoped you might find a better connection. Regardless, in here you have a space where the slippery footing of your childhood and adolescence is familiar territory to all of us as well. Consequently, you have no ‘betters’ in here, only equals. I commend you for having the courage to speak out. Manifestly you have already demonstrated great amounts of courage in your life already, from leaving TF to the role you take with your younger siblings… Welcome! (reply to this comment)

from tired 2 Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 13:39 (Agree/Disagree?) I empathise totally with you and am unable to express what you have written any more touchingly or eloquently. I simply want you to remember you are not alone, we are many and growing. I too am combatting alcoholism and drug abuse and appreciate how difficult it is. My main goal is to see to it I don't become a source of gloating for TF, by going round the bend. More importantly, to not become an example they'd rub in the faces of others who attempt to leave. I find comfort in the knowledge that more and more are leaving, providing a safety in numbers never experienced by those of us who left 10+ years ago. I also look forward to the day when TF consists of sterile OAPs who are incapable of producing more fodder to feed their disgusting appetites. Please be strong, know that you are cared for and don't become a cause of pain to your siblings, who have experienced more than their fair share.x (reply to this comment)

from itsxena2u Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 12:47 (Agree/Disagree?) It seems you don't have a way to receive mail. Here is my e-mail address: itsxena2u@yahoo.com Please write me. (reply to this comment)

from itsxena2u Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 12:40 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't know what happened to my server. But what I was trying to say is that I'm going to write you and give you my cell. I want you to call me whenever you like. If you can't call then just give me your number and I'll call you. I'm not a phychiatrist, but I have a good listening ear. No one should have to go through that alone. You don't deserve that. I hope you know that there are people who care. Just hold on sweetie! (reply to this comment)

from itsxena2u Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 12:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Dear Laura, I'm going to write you and (reply to this comment)

from Dani Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 07:39 (Agree/Disagree?) I posted this a while ago. It's from Generation X by Douglas Coupland. Maybe it's nothing but I could relate to the effects of growing up in a large family. Bradyism: (page 134) A multisibling sensibility derived from having grown up in large families. A rarity in those born after approximately 1965, symptoms of Bradyism include a facility for mind games, emotional withdrawal in situations of overcrowding, and a deeply felt need for well-defined personal space. (reply to this comment)

from cheeks Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 06:59 (Agree/Disagree?) It's one day at a time. One moment at a time, eventually you learn to deal with your grief of a lost childhood. I never fit in. I was the odd one out. I was their best friend not their girl friend. Things that I was punnished for in the past I could never seem to get over. I could never wear my hair down because I was severly punnished once for having it unbraided. So for years I have worn it up. Then I realized why I had such an issue with it I cut it all off down to an inch. I am going to start over I am going to grow it out and by God I am going to wear it down. One way or another I am going to make it. I am going to find a way to deal with the painful memories, I am going to raise my children. And I will have new memories. They cannot hurt me any more. I will survive and so can you, so can all of us, we are no longer victims we are now the aggressors. We will have our justice. (reply to this comment)

From babiedoll Thursday, April 29, 2004, 07:54 (Agree/Disagree?) Hell yeah!! You tell um! instead of being depressed all the time, and crying I get off my ass and make shit happen. We no longer have to have anyone's permission to do anything. I can go to school and make something of myself and give $$ to my parents so my Dad can quit working two jobs for the rest of his life and retire. Its nice to hear determination, I guess its sound like myself when I was in TF but I would just get paddled when I would was stubborn and not "humble in the eyes of the Lord." I am so proud of the way that you are cheeks!! xo lei P.S. So that's why you chopped off your pretty hair huh? (reply to this comment)

from GoldenMic Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 01:18 (Agree/Disagree?) I wanted to say a little more, to Laura and some of the other brave souls who have shared here. PLEEEEZE, do not give in to the pain. For the first ten years after I left, I know that I appeared to others as a well-adjusted and happy individual, but I was dying inside. I had learned my cult lessons well, you see, and I knew how to appear like a good disciple, a credit to my company, and better than the "worldly" systemites around me, but my heart was broken. I didn't get in to drugs or sex, but I blew up to 425 pounds, and every day I had to ignore the desperate urge to drive my car off a cliff. I was sad, scared, and convinced that I had blown it by leaving, and I was daily certain of God's wrath. Somehow, I hung in there. Luckily, I had two children whose eyes lit up every day when I came home, and they saved me. I waited to die, but never got around to offing myself. Then, about five years ago, I woke up from my death-dream, and I got mad! Who the hell were THEY to make me be afraid? What right did THEY have to destroy my hope? Since then, I have dedicated my life to eradicating the cult of my past. First, driving the sickness out of my own heart, but slowly committing myself more and more to finding answers for all of us, studying and meditating and talking with other ex-cultites to develop a plan to end their reign (both internal and among my loved-one's), and to supporting my dispossessed peers. This has given me life, and dignity, and it has given me a reason greater than myself to continue growing. I couldn't do it just for me, the cult had virtually destroyed my sense of self, but I first found the strength to do it for others, and now I can even sometimes see MYSELF as worthy of something better... Whatever path you take, I swear to you that you can know freedom one day, if you hang in there. Not the dispensed blessings of a follower, but the true freedom of a fighter and a beautiful person in your own right. I beg you, for love's sake, let the love and compassion here strengthen you, and draw from those who know the road you travel, and hold on for just a while longer... the fact that you are writing here means that you still have some faint hope, and every day that you continue on, you will be proving the Queen and her minions are slime, preying on our decency and our fears, and that we will NOT let their vision of us destroy our spirits. You're despair breaks my heart and re-awakens many old demons in my head, but your courage in speaking fills me with pride at your spirit and your courage. Love, Michael M. (reply to this comment)

from Flaweduglyweak Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 21:35 (Agree/Disagree?) I tremble as I write these words. I want to ask you to hold on, can I ask you that? I want to ask 1984 to hold on too, can I ask you that, 1984? Or would that be one more insulting absurdity? I know how absurd and insulting everything can seem when one feels this way. I started to write a reply to you, but it seems like I would have to write a book to reply since every single paragraph of yours reached into my chest and tore at my heart. I tried a number of times today but each attempt felt like it threatened to destabilize my grip on today and I feel I have to hold that grip as today turns into tomorrow or I will not be there to do anything -- including answer. There are two of your questions that I answer immediately: Yes I feel that way (what do you mean "ever"? are you kidding?). And yes I care. My whole body is shaking as I write this and tears are coming now. If we are both around a while longer I can try to tell you the other ways this article makes me want to reach out and grab on to you tightly. I never fit in in The Family either. And popularity with my peers eluded me entirely. And I can't be intimate with a man and probably never will. I am still struggling after over a dozen years out to approach as a little less of a submissive, with less walking down the halls with tilted head (yes people point that out to me), thus baring my neck to the dominant animals to show i don't intend to encroach on their primacy, that I am and will remain an underdog. "Please feel free to put your foot on my neck." And last night I dreamt devastatingly again of my parents' abandonment. You say "The only things that keep me numb and stop me thinking are drugs and alcohol. It used to be that it would take the edge off, just a bit, and it was a way to have fun and pretend that I was the happiest girl around. ..In actuality I could not and my dependence on these things has just gotten worse and worse." It has been the same for me with alcohol. And now to stay alive day by day I can't touch it. I miss it sometimes acutely and I miss thinking that I can take the edge off I have to. And I have been dumped by AA Sponsors-- they can't deal with hearing about my childhood and the allergy to certain AA things because of the cult, so they reject me when I tell them "look I have trouble with this AA thing, can you help me work through it and get a handle on it while still feeling safe from being gobbled up by a Shepherd?" Because I also seemed unable to fake it in the Family, that utter faith, and don't seem to have gotten much better at it. They demand that I obey all "suggestions" (like the Family's "a suggestion is an order given in love") while accepting their conclusory statement that they are not exercising power or trying to control me. I am trying to see if I can do the program as a moderate since I know the fearesomeness of those with consuming convictions. Like Banshee I have found that it helps to find a hobby that engages me. True, I have just been through 2 months where even the hobby that is most engrossing to me was unavailing to coax me out of bed or away from binges. But I seem to be waking up from that hibernation now and the hobby speaks in my language again. The winter eventually turns to spring, even very far north. When you tell me of your exhaustion I feel it to the core of my soul, even though I don't have all the younger siblings to think of like you or children to raise like some others do and I suppose I don't have as good a reason to be tired. But my constitution and the things I had to go through to survive have combined to strip my gears too and there are days when I feel one hundred years old. Please forgive me for writing this anonymously. I do so because I am also terrified of many things known and unknown and I think I may fear a little less this way. I am scared because I have learned since birth that a sure way to be hurt is to let those who like to hurt see your soft spots (like WS-appointed readers of this site, our peers at their cattiest). I fear even happiness for giving me something that can be taken away. But I think you'll know who I am Laura. I tried and tried to call you today just to hear your voice, just to know that breath still coaxes sound from your vocal chords. In part I selfishly want the reassurance of knowing that somebody who has done so much for me will be around a while longer thus not impoverishing my life with the loss of her. In part I do not want to utter again the animal screams that you heard me utter less than a year ago when we lost that friend. I'm trying to think now, how can I be there for you as you want it? Not as I would project myself and what I would want onto you. I assure you I won't recoil in horror, and I thought you knew that. I am furious at myself for not letting you know that and for not making you feel you could be yourself with me. Please forgive me for not letting you know. I won't recoil in horror because I too am flawed and ugly (very!!) and weak (oh, and fat --probably stinky too?). I too have woken up from coma with charcoal in my scalp -- I used to wake up in the emergency room every couple of weeks like I was trying to destroy "myself," whatever that is. Maybe what I'm trying to get at are actually the abjection, distress, dismay, dread, despair, apprehension, anguish, fear and loathing of impending disaster, doom, annihilation, extinction, dissolution -- but since I am their carrier I hurt me in the process. "I am angry, I am a bitch, I have “issues”, but what specifically does all that entail? How do you fight it? How do you get from so not okay to healthy?" I don't know and i may never have a really clean bill of health, I will probably never "shake the feeling that there is something fundamentally wrong with me." I am, however, starting to see ways I can coexist with that feeling. Finally, if we are making it hard for you, cut us cyberfreaks loose!! I would rather lose your presence in my life while knowing that you left it to take care of yourself, than to cling to you at your expense because I want to keep all the good you do for me. I will think of you with the fervent desire that you are finding solace. (reply to this comment)

From 1984 Thursday, April 29, 2004, 12:22 (Agree/Disagree?) thanks for your concern, and you can ask to hold on any time... but can i ask that?, no, i can´t, there was a time when i thought i had all the answers, like the mother in "THE OTHERS", but now everything is different, i don´t beleive in things i used to, i don´t ask for help any more, i don´t belong to anything any longer and i wont. but if you allow me, i can honestly say that i have found peace (if you want to call it that way) in my dear ones. i can honestly say that there is people around -very few if you wish- that will be interested in you, not because of your religioun, your weight, the way you look, etc, but in you, just because you are, just because one is, and when you find that, when you know that, life gets intresting again. why do i write this, i don´t know, probably because i was touched by both, yours and hers writings.(reply to this comment)

from 1984 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 19:03 (Agree/Disagree?) eastimada laura, no s´r si entiendas castellano, pero prefiero comunicarme contigo en este idioma. es muy significativo que muchas de las cosas a las cuales te refieres sean un lugar común en algunos de nosotros, supongo que es el precio que tenemos que pagar los que hemos tenido el infortunio de haber nacido en una familia disfuncional. respecto al suicidio, conforme pasa el tiempo, cada vez me convenzo más que no es más que una opción, y quienes lo critican obviamente no les ha tocado vivir lo que muchos hemos vivido. simplemente puedo decirte que someone do care for you, at least in this hermandad de sobrevivientes. ánimo. (reply to this comment)

From 1984 Wednesday, April 28, 2004, 19:11 (Agree/Disagree?) dear Laura, i don´t know if you understand Spanish but i prefer to use this language. it is very significant that many of the things you are refering to are a common place for some of us, i just guess is the price we have to pay for being born in a disfunctional family. with respect to suicide, the more i think about it, the more i get convince that it is an option, and those who critizise it obviously have not experienced things we have. i just want to say that there is someone who cares, at least the ones who have taken the time to write a little note here. best wishes.(reply to this comment)

from Banshee Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 17:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Laura, you have put into words many of the feelings and questions and despair that we have all had at one time or another. Whatever dark times you have gone through or are yet going to, most importantly know that you are not alone. Each one of us have to face our past: some have ignored it or turned their back on it, some have laughed at it and used it to their advantage, some who--like me--have had more painful pasts are still learning to deal with it, but for all of us it will always be there, always a part of us. There are people who like to come on this site and boast about how completely they have "moved on", but I'm sure that they also have their pain and fears if they were honest about it. I don't think it's a show of weakness or lack of character or a sign of something being "wrong" with you because of these things you go through. You are obviously incredibly brave and strong and honest. You have overcome insurmountable odds by yourself with no one to support you. You are still here, you are still fighting for dominance. I really admire you because I face fierce struggles myself, and I know how hard it can be to feel so alone. Although I haven't tried drugs, I found myself attempting to drown out my pain with alcohol more and more. I know what you mean about those stupid meetings or even a shrink--it just is too "close to home" to be helpful I think. It's too much like reliving a freaking heart-sharing or having "walkie-talkie time" with a "shepherd." Yeesh. Gives me the creeps. I'm not saying I have a solution at all, because I still deal with it all the time, but one thing that helped me was finding something to do that distracts me. Because for me, I go to alchohol because I don't want to think about it. I want to block it out. When I realised how often I was trying to "block it out" with alcohol, it scared me. So I have been trying to make an effort to do something with those times when I would want to drown myself out into oblivion. I know it sounds simplistic, but basically like a hobby, something that is really engrossing for me. Not that it works for me every time, but sometimes it does. (reply to this comment)

from madmax Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 14:02 (Agree/Disagree?) There probably is nothing I could say in a short email that could give you an answer or solve any of the issues you mentioned... nonetheless, please know that there are a lot of us that do care! M. (reply to this comment)

from GoldenMic Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 09:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Dear Laura, I care. I am so glad that you had a place, this place, where you could write out such feelings and actually be heard. It seemed like almost every word you wrote was my own, and you went from point to point... telling my story even as you were telling your own. Frankly, I love the cutting sarcasm here, the way so many of our peers are able to use a "gallows humor", rich with wit and irony, to process their reactions and feelings, but it was really powerful to see you tell the stroy from a position of gut-wrenching pain. Now, if you can just hang in there! I would like to suggest that you give 12-step Recovery another try, because for all its cult-like aura and bullshit, MANY of my loved-one's and friends have found real relief from there, and at some point you KNOW that you're going to have to take some chances... without sobriety you may NEVER be able to get a handle on these feelings. Meanwhile, please keep on writing and sharing, because that is a truly important part of the process of gaining freedom. Thank you so much for your honesty and your courage in being willing to expose your own pain. If you continue to "lean in" and keep up the search, I promise you that there are answers out there. Michael. (reply to this comment)

from frmrjoyish Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 06:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Laura, it sounds like you are suffering from a lack of self esteem. You should remember that despite the difficulties you are going through, the fact is that you made it. You got out of that cult, made a life for yourself, and people view you as a strong woman. Despite your past, you have managed to overcome so much. This tells me that you are not "damaged goods", far from it. Being the oldest of nine, I can definitely empathise with much of what you said. I struggle with the fact that even though I've done so much more than any of my siblings, it's still never enough for my parents. It's been this way my whole life, I've always been held to much higher standards. Whenever I get frustrated, I just remind myself that I am struggling to please people who chose to waste half their lives and their childrens lives in a perverted sex cult. Then their opinion of me, even though they are my parents, comes into perspective. The bottom line is that we will always be different from others without our background, but depending on who we surround ourselves with, some people really can understand us or at least make a valient effort. When I found this site a year ago, I got the courage to tell someone for the first time in my life. I told my best friend who not only was completely supportive, but she researched info on this cult so she could attempt to understand where I was coming from. Of course, there was the usual shock and disgust at what she had seen, but she never viewed me as damaged goods, it was quite the opposite. She said she always knew I was a strong woman, but never how strong. On the other hand, when I told my boyfriend, I got a stern lecture on how important it was to keep the past behind me, never talk to any old friends, never come on this site, and just forget about it. His cold reaction was very surprising and hurtfull. All this to say, that I think you should be careful not to anticipate others reactions based on your own sense of selfworth. And if others react negatively, then they weren't worth it in the first place. If they can't see that we were nothing but victims of this cult, then screw 'em! Please don't forget the incredible odds you have beat inorder to get to where you are. I don't need to know you personally to know that you are far from damaged goods, Laura, you are a strong women who has overcome incredible odds that life has thrown at you. I know it's tough, but hang in there, girl!! (reply to this comment)

from Jerseygirl Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 04:16 (Agree/Disagree?) I care. Sorry I don't have many answers as these are pretty much all the questions and thoughts I struggle with as well, but I certainly care. (reply to this comment)

From Haunted Thursday, April 29, 2004, 08:56 (Agree/Disagree?) I care. Although I feel the same as Jerz, I just want to let you know that you are not isolated in these feelings. So many of the things you wrote struck a chord in my heart - I too have wrestled with these demons, as I'm afraid I always will. I don't know if there's any consolation to be had in the fact that others also strive to wade through the mire you find yourself in, but we do and we care. Keep smiling.....(reply to this comment)