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Getting Out : Creeps

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from Mika
Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 13:19

Damn girl, you brought back so many memories. I was hoping I would find "Uncle Snowy's" (Hugo Westphal) name in here somewhere, because he was the biggest pervert. He worked with my dad (Philippe La Plume), so I had to see a lot more of him than I liked. He always used to ask me to show him my "pearls" (breasts) and he tried to have sex with me at the Dorm, luring with me candy, no less! "Want some candy little girl? Hehehe..." Then when I tried to run out of the room, he held the door and told me "you won't tell anyone, will you?" What's worse, when I told Ginny about it, she belittled the incident, and said it was no big deal, etc. Later I received an actual letter of apology from him (I wish I kept it) and of course later I heard that he'd been excommed. Good riddance! Sunny, I remember at the Fountain House, he came in with a flashlight one night to look at you and Keiko's breasts while you were sleeping. My dad knew about it, because he'd always come check on us when Snowy was around, and try to move Snowy along in a different direction.
And thanks porcelaindoll, for bringing up John (of Heart). Every time he walked by, you could hear the clicking in his knees. He never did anything really, really bad that I can remember, but he'd always say a little "goodnight prayer" with you, while simultaeneously rubbing your breasts. Ew! A couple times his hand would even start wandering towards the nether regions.
Sometimes I laugh and think it's funny, but really it's not. I'd have a fit if I had a daughter and someone was doing that to her.
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from dumgirl
Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 13:43

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
What? ppl get over it. You weren't physically hurt so what's the big deal? a lot of ppl have had it worse off then u. I'm not sayin it ain't bad what happened but it's past. It happened years ago. Move on.

(reply to this comment)
From hope
Friday, August 23, 2002, 00:00

Who is dumgirl? Probably some child molester who believes that what he/she is doing or has done is no big deal. Either that or he/she has been molested and is still in denial.

How sad.(reply to this comment
From Si
Monday, June 17, 2002, 18:22

Hear, Hear(reply to this comment
From EyesWideShut
Sunday, June 16, 2002, 19:56

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(
Dear dumgirl,

(What a befitting name!)

You know what, we know that we weren't "physically hurt", but we were psychologically damaged, not just by the sexual abuses but by all the abuse, especially the spiritual. And I dare say I speak for all of us that have spoken of our past abuse when I say that the point is not how hurt we were, the point is that there was a social and religious structure in place that allowed and encouraged sex between adults and children! And although apologies to each of us would be token gestures, what we're most worried about is the fact that abuses are still happening to our brothers and sisters, to our friends, to innocent children and young teenagers. As far as I'm concerned, almost everything about the Fam is abusive, and if the courts knew what life was really like in most homes they would have taken the kids away long ago. I could expound on what I mean about non-sexual abuses but I think that anybody that's worth the explaination knows what I mean already.

And, btw, I know for a fact that LOTS of girls were actually HURT, raped, bloodied, and ruined. And I can be thankful that although I was sexually abused 2 major times before the age of 9, I was not "physically hurt", if that's what you wanted to hear.

In my case, the first incident was a complete psycho. I was 5. That just grossed me out. The second incident was sort of a long term situation and took place during a time in my life when I hated my parents and I thought they didn't like me much either because I was getting huge spankings from them all the time. Everyone else in the Home had it out for me as well--at least that's how it seemed in the mind of a 9 year old--so when this pervert came along everyday wanting to fondel and kiss me, I felt that finally somebody liked me for something. Sadly that carried on through life, and although others saw me with talents and abilitys to be proud of, I always saw myself as a girl who was good for nothing more than a good lay, and it is only since leaving that I have begun to respect and appreciate everything I have to offer myself and others. The long term effects of all that childhood sexuality go on and on.

The reason for the details is so you--whoever you are--can see that although there was long term emotional distress, I am not interested in what happened to me in the past. There is no hope in catching the perpetrators, so I'd just as soon let it slip by. However, because there are still kids in the group that are being spiritually and psychologically abused--most of this at the hands of unwitting, ignorant people--myself and others cannot just walk away. We share our own examples--dated as they may be--to express each of our very personal interest in effecting a change NOW.

As for moving on, I was doing just that, then I found this site and saw that if I could turn around and use my past to save children still in jeopardy I would be helping all of them to move on too. Plus, making contact here and opening up about all kinds of things that happened has helped me in my "moving on". Time does not heal all things, it numbs them.

These things do not just go away, dumgirl.

May I suggest that you change your name? --If you want to be taken seriously, that is.(reply to this comment
From hope
Friday, August 23, 2002, 00:19

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Sunny, sexual contact with adults before the age of 9 (or even several years older) IS considered "physical hurt" by the vast majority of people.

Don't let Family weirdos convince you to minimize what happened to you just because some were abused more.

You have survived a seriously deranged childhood, and by sharing your experiences you are both raising awareness and providing yourself some much-needed therapy.

You honesty and sincerity is much appreciated. (reply to this comment
From sar
Saturday, July 27, 2002, 14:16

I left fairly recently and am alot younger than you, so I have not been through the same as you. I have not been abused in the family, neither have my sisters. By abuse, I mean what would internationally be considered abuse. Do you really think children are still in jeopardy of physical and sexual abuse? And don't you think every person is entitled to a belief however strange that would be. If you truly believed in something wouldn't you pass on your beliefs to your children? I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that. When they grow up they'd have the oportunity to decide for themselves, much as many of us have done.(reply to this comment
From venusbutterfly
Wednesday, August 27, 2003, 08:46

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
as many of us have done?? but at what price?!!!(reply to this comment
From porceleindoll
Saturday, July 27, 2002, 21:44

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I think Sara that perhaps being younger with the added (advantage) of not having experienced what you would consider abuse to either you or your sisters give you a somewhat different outlook on this subject, not to mention that you left fairly recently.

What would internationally be considered abuse? I would have to say anything that violates the rights of others, and in the case of children, inflicts emotional or physical trauma on them. An adult who forces his(her) wishes upon an innocent child who doesn't have either the strength or wisdom to know better. If there was anything the world should work towards is a united standard of children's rights so that universally children can be assured of their safety, protection, and given the chance to grow up in an environment that will give them the tools they need to make their own decisions in life.

Yes, many groups (Jews, Mormons, JW, goes on) raise their children as they see fit and impart to them the doctrines they personally subscribe to, and try to bring their children up in that same belief system. But one major difference between many of those groups and the Family: Many of those children will still go to a normal school, will still watch TV, read books, have friends from other faiths and lifestyles, and therefore receive an outside influence which gives them the opportunity to weight the belief system their parents are giving them with that around them, and make a choice based on these influences.

The Family didn't allow us that outside influence, they created a bubble society, we were sheltered to the extreme. Perhaps you don't remember the days of video that were alread pow-wowed on tape (101 Dalmations with SaraD), or the School Era, what about education, for the longest time it was only the CCHB, what about news, we got the WND digest, what about stories to feed our growing imaginations? Heaven's Girl, Heaven's Children, LWG, kids MOP, then as we got to about 12 we were expected to put our full-time into serious writings of the DBs, GNs, etc. Did you ever just go to a video shop as a kid and pick out any cartoon you wanted and watch it? Of course not, I remember the days when Peter Pan and Cinderella were considered evil.

What about books, did you run down to the local bookstore and choose out a stupid comic book or frilly girl story to read? Did you get the chance to waste an afternoon watching whatever you wanted on TV? Did your parents give you $5 to go to the local mall with your friends from school, friends they may never have met, and just hang out, play arcade games and drink soda pop?

We missed that influence in our lives, this is not fair. This is the same as the Taliban in Afghanistan, or perhaps North Korea and its ban on outside influences so that their citizens will never know what they are missing and remain totally loyal to them their whole lives.

We have finally chosen for ourselves what to do with our lives, it's true, but not without a lot of pain. Don't tell me you were able to walk away from the group with no guilt, no confusion, no condemnation and fear of God's punishments. If so, you are a unique person among us.

I don't believe that children in the group are in great jeopardy of sexual abuse, and physical abuse is at a minimum, which is good, (but then again, according to a young person on this site, her sister was recently molested by a man in the group), I believe though children are in danger of abuse of their rights to grow up with enough education to carry them into society if they so choose, in the group their eventual future is to rule the world, fight the AC, pass out tracts and baloon, and join Jesus in the bed of love, it's a bit insane. The kids need to know there are other choices out there and not be conditioned to think that they are doing God's lesser will by choosing something other than the group.

Sorry for the ramble.(reply to this comment
from dumgirl
Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 13:43

Average visitor agreement is 1 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
What? ppl get over it. You weren't physically hurt so what's the big deal? a lot of ppl have had it worse off then u. I'm not sayin it ain't bad what happened but it's past. It happened years ago. Move on.

(reply to this comment)
from Marc Antony
Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 07:05

This is a parable, with apologies to William Shakespeare and with the caveat that I do not wish to make light of the sexual abuse and of the victim's(always the children) suffering. This is a comic/tragedy only the humor is black.


The Missionary of Venice.

Antonio: What a fine day for the Lord's work. I will witness and reach my goals with ease DV. I am sure God is willing. My wife Angela and my teen daughter Portia, and our Jett girl Nessina are at home and on childcare for the 32 children with a fully stocked home thanks to our provisioners. Now I must just get out the door before the devil stops me with one of his timewasting tactics. Is everyone ready for the Attack Day?

All: Yes!

(The door bell rings )

Antonio: Who could this be? Oh my, I forgot. Today is the day that SLUT/CRO is supposed to visit in preparation for the upcoming SLUMMIT. Oh Lord, give me the grace.(He opens the door)

At the door is the new SLUTCRO team of
Slycock(formerly Jo Slya), and Mother Muffdiver(formerly Mary Carpetbiter, aka Ralphing C-Man, and Women prefer blondes on video nites.) And the newest member of the team Clueless Jilly Jackson the YA in training.

Slycock: Antonio! What you are still at home at 7 am? Not out witnessing yet? Oh dear, My Lord, Muffdiver do you think we came to early? By the way Antonio is your Jett daughter at home today?

Antonio: I...I...was just about to---

Muffdiver: We were visiting a home yesterday and they could hardly find time to go tapnessing because of..what was it Jill?

Jill: Oh they felt they needed to organize or something silly like that. Imagine when the whole world is going to hell in a bread basket they could not find time to go out and beg for bread.

(Antonio and his witnessing team silently departs)

Slycock, Muffdiver, and Jilly comment in unison: Have a good witnessing day and don't rush home, we are preparing for the SLUMMIT you know and you will just get in the way.

(The door resoundly slams shut)

The SLUTCRO team all giggle at the same time. A harried housewife comes through the living room, it is Antonio's wife, Angela.

Angela: Oh, my Lord! I...

Slycock: You can call me Slycock or just Cock for short, I mean long. Ha! Ha!(The SLUTCRO team all laugh)But don't call me Lord. Oh, my Ha Ha. We all know that name is reserved for our dear prophet who is the Lord to all of us.(The SLUTCRO teams nods reverently in unison)
(reply to this comment)
From monet
Saturday, June 22, 2002, 14:03

love it(reply to this comment
From Todd
Sunday, June 09, 2002, 07:28

This is great! Did you get cut off or something? Please finish.(reply to this comment
from afflick
Friday, June 07, 2002 - 17:41

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
This is what it comes down to for me: Berg was a very deranged, perverted old man who found himself (I say 'found himself' not 'created' because I don't think he was smart enough for that) in a situation where he could get all the sex he wanted on demand. Any woman, any child, even those in his immediate family, had to submit.

That's why none of his writings can be taken as inspirational. Not 'Diamonds of Dust', not 'On Guard", none of it. The motivation behind "Old Church, New Church" was to justify his shagging a woman half his age and dumping his wife. Deborah was made a "Queen" not because of devine inspiration, but because the bastard wanted his own daughters tail.

To think a child like Davida, 8 or 9 years old, was forced to provide pleasure to a 60 year old man on a regular basis just makes me want to kill him if he wasn't already dead. Sara this poor girls' mother, pranced around on videos and in leadership for years, admonishing young teens to pour their lives into the caretaking of other people's children, when she willing offered her own prodgeny to this monster. Who was she to tell us anything?

And loving Mama Maria, who begins all her GNs to The Family with "I love you so much, I would die for you, you are my precious, precious children in Jesus and David". She's almost pure evil. Her own children dispise her, she sits in a room all day making up prophecies and describing to the world in detail her 50-something year old sex life.
Can she just shutup about it? An abuser of children, a rapist of those on the field, sincerely believing her own crap. How does she deal with the guilt of what she did to Mene, to her son, to the countless young people who wrote to her honestly about the injustices they have suffered, essencially at HER hand?

What do we get: an admonition to wrap it in a bundle of faith, 8 FSMs raving about how great Mama is because she once bought some girl a chocolate bar, a glip 'why don't you all mind your own business'. Please. If she says we're the 'smart kids she believes us to be', then why does she respond to our questions and accusations like we all have Downs Syndrome?

No, I don't think that we're going to get anywhere with her. I just needed to work out on 'paper' what I'm experiencing reading through these latest articles.

Porceline Doll, I think the reason why young people defend their abusers to the world is because they can't yet handle the truth of what they are living. My hope is that someday they will all jump ship and leave Zerb and Peter alone in their dark room, writing missives to themselves.

Dare we dream.
(reply to this comment)
from porceleindoll
Friday, June 07, 2002 - 07:16

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
I remember the McNally incident clearly Sunny, and it was one thing I pushed out of my mind cause I didn't want to think that Ricky had crossed a line that was supposed to be taboo. He has a definite history of it though. Josiah was actually "excommed" for one day, put on babe's status and sent into Tokyo to spend a day in "prayer and Word" for molesting an adolescent at the HCS, my husband to this day is still disgusted by the hypocrisy of it, all just so he could keep doing his "important" work, and never letting the Family or the Home know what was going on. Eman also severely offended someone close to me and Newheart is a bigtime pedophile and wife-beater. Let's not forget John of Hart either. He molested some of the Jetts at the HCS when I was a Jett shepherd, I didn't know it was him for a long time, but I wrote an honest OHR about how mad I was that some guy would do that and that he deserved a punishment, and I got talked to about not being too SR (Ginny none the less). And I swallowed it, I was too afraid of trouble for myself, I had been through the whole "You're too independent and SR.." thing before, so I let it go.

What a ridiculous situation, what irony, and now the present Family youth defends a group that is so full of cover up and lies, I can't figure that part of their belief system out.

It's interesting Sarafina to know you were the "Flirty Little Teen" beware subject. How they turn a mature adult man's mistakes around and make you, or any girl, the adolescent immature product of her surroundings into the perpetrator and guilty party is not comprehendable, and now, to know that it was based on an incident concerning Josiah, who has a history of sexual abuse toward girls, who had been warned several times and in trouble for it, it's absolutely idiotic?

It makes me wonder, what god is the Family listening to, cause I can't see any way that the God I still believe in would put the blame on a child and not the adult in this case, esp. an adult who was known for his pedophility (is that a word?)
(reply to this comment)
From Heather
Friday, June 07, 2002, 18:59

What exactly was the McNally incident?(reply to this comment
From EyesWideShut
Friday, June 07, 2002, 19:02

McNally is Ricky's name. Brian McNally.(reply to this comment
from sarafina
Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 18:41

Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5Average visitor agreement is 5 out of 5(Agree/Disagree?)
Well done Sunny! Couldn't have said it better myself. BTW for those of you who just read her post I was with her in the Victor Program and was one of those "girls" she was speaking of who had to "flash" U JO.

It started with me in the PI for the first teen training camp. I met him there and I quess was where the infatuation started I was only 13 at the time and had a "school girl crush" on him. He was so powerful and I was in awe. He visited me privately a few time times at the camp, told me how beautiful I was and how much he liked me. At night he's come to say good night and coupa feel of my brest when ever he could. I was extreemly flattered and said I liked him too. I wrote him a "love note" and placed it in his car. He said he had to leave the country soon but that he would see me again and kissed me good bye. He wrote me now and then to see how I was doing and told me this had to be our little secret. The next time I saw him we were in Japan as everyone in the PI had to evacuate. Each family put in their request as to where they wanted to go..but in the end the final dicision was left up to leadership.

Everyone wanted to go to Japan but only so many could. Jo later said he used his influance as a what ever he was to have our family move to Japan. He said "see I promiced to watch over you and keep you close." He said many times how much he wished he could sleep with me. (at the time I was in the V.P.) He lived next door and would request me to bring over his laundry all the time and then pull me in the bathroom and unzip my top and fondle me. By this tome I was 15. He said if I let him, he'd see what he could do about making it easyier on me over at the V.P. Which he did. At least he kept his word. Lol Well he finaly got cought and got sent back to M/M house for retraining...and where he confessed it all and blamed it all on me. Saying how I seduced him ect. I got in so much trouble! They brought me in front of the whole school and read "Flirty teens bewhare" our name were deleated from the letter. I'll never forget how angry I was at him for letting me take all the heat for that. I saw him here in San Diego a couple years ago when I went with Allen (Patrick) to the Research Center out here to sign his devorice papers to his wife sharron so she could marry Paul Papers as Allen had left the family and she had wanted to stay. We walk in and there was Jo. I hadn't seen him since what happened at the H.C.S He hadn't changed a bit (except for looking old and tired) He said how much he missed me and was sorry and asked to take me out and catch up for old times sake. I thought what the hell I had alot of questions and wanted to know where alot of people were and since he was a CRO I thought he might know. Well he takes me to a bar and orders us some drinks. I said " I thought you can drink in the family and he's like"Oh sure we can now" so he has a couple drinks(actually quite a few) and starts tell me he's been waiting for years to sleep with me and had feelings for me and why don't I take him home with me. I explained I lived with my boy friend and that I had no desire to sleep with someone as old as my Grandpa.( I thought if you were in the family you weren't aloud to sleep with exmembers) He said we could get a hotel room or something. I kept saying no and went home. He kept calling me so I finally changed my phone number.

There were alot more similar events with other leaders and shepherds and when in the family I thought this type of behavior was "normal" and not to bad. And if you would have asked me I would have said no I wasn't molested I liked the attention. But now being out of the family I relised that no adult should ever be fondling a 13 yr old girl it isn't normal even if they don't mind it. Out here you'd go to jail for it. We never thought we were being molested as we weren't forced into it physicaly...but we were mentaly and they did take advantage of our youth and our ignorance of the subject.
But this to Dom if you want to read some more torture stories go to "Faith No More" under "life with grandpa..the Mene story" I wrote a couple things that did happen to me along those lines.
(reply to this comment)

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