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from rainy day7* Friday, July 14, 2006 - 14:46 (Agree/Disagree?) This story I agree to a certain extent. The comment that the author implied about the naive of young girls and why exactly act that way. This story definitely relates to me, my family also refers to me as being naive. I guess it's the lack of real world experience. Maybe it's us being misjudge, because many of us young people know that it's wrong to do drugs, or go out late at night, and that causes us to be secure whenever we are in public. So what do you suggest that us young people should do to get us most prepare for reality, and not only abuse ourselves, but the people that we love. (reply to this comment)

from rainy day7* Friday, July 14, 2006 - 14:46 (Agree/Disagree?) This story I agree to a certain extent. The comment that the author implied about the naive of young girls and why exactly act that way. This story definitely relates to me, my family also refers to me as being naive. I guess it's the lack of real world experience. Maybe it's us being misjudge, because many of us young people know that it's wrong to do drugs, or go out late at night, and that causes us to be secure whenever we are in public. So what do you suggest that us young people should do to get us most prepare for reality, and not only abuse ourselves, but the people that we love. (reply to this comment)

from Rain Child Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 04:34 (Agree/Disagree?) I know exactly what you're talking about, and it's so rare to - no- I should say I have never met a male who saw these things clearly before. I was just that girl you described when I left. I'm deeply embarrassed about the way I carried on when I first left-but I honestly didn't know any better. I had no idea that people saw me as a flirt and even a..S-L-U-T because I didn't see myself that way. I just wanted to have fun and meet people and I couldn't help the fact that I was swarmed with guys everywhere I went. It's been a long hard road of realisation and I only got there because I became pregnant and was trapped in a relationship with an abusive man who had no trouble putting me down and constantly spelling out exactly what a bimbo I had been and how I had looked to him at first. I've had plenty of time to reflect on myself, and I believe I'm a different person now. I would love to help other young girls who are the way I was, but it's very touchy, and I don't know what anyone could have done for me. It took me getting to the point where I wanted to die before I could see myself objectively. I blame it on my upbringing, and your statement that many other ex-family girls are this way confirms it for me. (reply to this comment)

from JoeH Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:29 (Agree/Disagree?) I don't really think you can blame the Family for someone's stupidity. They instilled a strong paranoia of drugs and strangers in everyone. I know it took me forever to try any drugs, even tobacco, and I'm still working on my systemite-phobia. These attempts to pigeon hole exmembers and find our collective identity are a little silly. We're just people, and we cover a broad spectrum. While you have the tragic story of your friend on one end, you have the success of girls like Caryn and Lucidchick and plenty of successful men too. (reply to this comment)

From Ex-member Thursday, April 10, 2003, 23:50 (Agree/Disagree?) I have to disagree here, Joe.  I have had a lot of bad sexual experiences into which, granted, I got myself but I have to blame my stupidity inlarge part on my family upbringing. ie. the sneaking out and getting into stupid shit and dangerous situations...you didn't really believe what the adults told you about scary systemites, did you? I think most of us thot it was just a crock to keep us in line and the world was really full of cool, innocent, well meaning guys who really did think we were special and different because of our sweetness and "aura". I for one never learned about mickey's and scary effects of drug mixes from any "Aunties and Uncles!" and strangers....did you never go on outreach dude?!!!! As to what Pharmaboy is saying about naive girls, I know a lot of my stupid dating blunders should have been avoided by or at least experienced in high school but seeing as I was never allowed that "rite of passage" or life experience, I am now, in my 20's, going "OH! -Is that not done? Did I just commit the biggest faux pas?" The answer to which is usually "Hell yeah, dumbass!" My friends (non-exers) are continuously horrified by my antics and naivete. The closer and more understandingones put it down to me growing up "in that weird religion" or being from a different culture (American in Central America)...the rest just put me down as a general freak and I get a terrible rep unwittingly. Is that me? Am I a slut, a social clutz, a basket case or damaged goods? I guess so...much as I hate to admit it, I am who I am and the Family has been the strongest influence in making me thus. Do I have to stay that way? Not unless I choose to. (reply to this comment)

From Joe H Friday, April 11, 2003, 13:49 (Agree/Disagree?) Your first paragraph doesn't make much sense Ex.  You admit that they warned you about some things, but that you chose not to believe any of it and thought that "the world was really full of cool, innocent, well meaning guys."  How is that the cult's fault?  Then you say you "never learned about mickey's and scary drug mixes from and 'Aunties and Uncles'," but if they had tried to warn you, would you have listened then?  I think you have to chalk it up to basic naivety that most young people have.  Plenty of people in the real world make the same mistakes that you have.  Like you said, it's a rite of passage.  I think some people blame the Family for way too much.  It can almost be a fun hobby, when not taken too earnestly ("The Family disciplined me too much, so I never learned self-control, hence my alcoholism").  But some things are just basic human nature.  (reply to this comment)

From Nuance Friday, April 11, 2003, 21:14 (Agree/Disagree?) I beg to differ, Joe.  On the surface, her first paragraph may indeed seem contradictory, as you say.  However, for those of us who came to the decision to leave on our own regardless of leaving behind all we'd ever known, in coming to that decision, we had to believe that a number of things were a total crock -- Traumatic Testimonies, for example.  What we did not have was somebody to sort out for us the "wheat from the chaff" (excuse the biblical expresssion).  Traumatic Testimonies were indeed full of garbage.  They also happened to select yucky things that actually may have been the case (howbeit for some of the worst elements of society perhaps) and throw in a bunch of hooey indiscriminately. Did you have anyone who could tell you which parts of what our elders told us was true and what wasn't?  As you rightly note, youth can be naive.  But our lopsided Family Training made that fact of "basic human nature" into a booby trap, exacerbated for many of us by the fact that we were on our own once we left. We were forced to disbelieve many things they told us if we were to take the huge risk of leaving.  Why leave if there wasn't hope for more, better?  How could we avoid also disbelieving, in the mix, a few things that were not totally false? (reply to this comment)

From Anthony Sunday, April 13, 2003, 15:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Nuance , you might want to reconsider your "argument(?)", because as it now stands... well, I'll be nice here, for a change!(reply to this comment)

From Jerseygirl Wednesday, September 18, 2002, 12:06 (Agree/Disagree?) Dude,I am so NOT "religiously reading your posts" but, I have to say that you have a point here. However, I personally think that there are a list of things that can be blamed on the family and a list which cannot.We definately are never going to find a "collective identity" yet there are similarities that will stay, same as if we all went to the same high school or shit to that effect.In any case In any case I was highly amused by your "systemite-phobia" referance.(reply to this comment)

From JoeH Wednesday, September 18, 2002, 12:35 (Agree/Disagree?) thank you sweetie(reply to this comment)

From Jerseygirl Wednesday, September 18, 2002, 12:24 (Agree/Disagree?) By dude I meant JoeH not the author of this article.(reply to this comment)

from monkeyfart Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 05:08 (Agree/Disagree?) Pharmaboy, You have asked yourself the deepest questions, questions which many people dare not ask themselves and few if any have answered for themselves. There are many questions which belong in the heart, which no one but you can answer for you. But look at it, you're 19, life doesn't have to be a rush of knowledge and wisdom. I think everyone’s philosophy on life changes as we go through it. In my personal philosophy I ask my self what is life but a journey in search of beauty, truth, wisdom, personal happiness and inner peace. Sometimes for no real reason, I feel a thirst of sorts, sometimes in the mind, sometimes from my emotions in my belly & I feel I must find the answer to that thirst. I feel I mostly learn without realising I've learnt, just that the thirst goes away when a personal answer is understood by a subconscious mind or soul. I understand I cannot change people or things just because I feel sorry for them/it. All I know is that when I stop seeing beauty in the world and only see pain, evil and hurt that I no longer feel alive, I no longer feel free to live. To allow myself to only see beauty and good in all life would be naive and of no use either, so I must allow myself to see and inevitably feel hurt and pain that exists, suffer the consequences of such which is life, yet hope again for beauty and peace. You must understand that not everyone is in search of what you consider to be beautiful and some only find beauty in the taking of beauty from another. But live your own life to create more of the beauty which you love. I’m only telling you this because I have also thought so many of the same things you’ve put in your posts & it was killing me trying to figure it all out. Sure, we don’t believe what “the family” has taught us, but that doesn’t mean we have to have all the answers either. “The family” including people like 7* and his multiple personalities have adopted a belief system which gives them “answers” so they often like to question others in an effort to show them up or prove they have an answer which you may not have. Also as you have noticed in your friend, people handle pain and hurt in many ways. I have also seen this in friends and my personal family so as the quote goes “there are many tears which never reach the eye”. I have never been raped so I cannot speak for the kind of hurt so many of the ex-SGA girls have also experienced. I truly believe most people try to “rise above it” in their own way so we may not understand the way they are dealing with it. What I do know from experience is that some peoples’ reaction to hurt and pain makes them hardened in a way which sometimes appears inhuman and they often have a hard time showing normal emotions and often lack normal sympathy for others. I surmise this is probably because what they are feeling is so painful they don’t mean to be that way they just have to cut themselves off from those kinds of feelings at least for a while. When people are like this I’ve noticed they often become misunderstood & quite often hurt or harm others because of their lack of feelings or wanting subconsciously to make others feel their pain too, hence it would appear our parents’ resultant mentality. I just want to be clear, I don’t claim to know any “answer” & I have no accreditation or degree to offer informed speculation about such things, I am only speaking of my own thoughts so hopefully you will know at least one other person has found themself completely confused and would hope for a simpler and less painful world as well. So, as for world politics, well that’s anyone’s guess. (reply to this comment)

From Jules Tuesday, September 17, 2002, 06:07 (Agree/Disagree?) One of my most treasured books is a collection of writings by the Sufi poet Rumi. One of my favourite quatrains reads: Today, like every other day, we wake up empty and frightened. Don't open the door to the study and begin reading. Take down the dulcimer. Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground. (reply to this comment)

From monkeyfart Tuesday, September 17, 2002, 05:54 (Agree/Disagree?) PS: If anyone thinks what I've said is a crock feel free to pull me up or say whatever, I'm certainly no authority on any subject. :)(reply to this comment)

From pharmaboy Tuesday, September 17, 2002, 06:52 (Agree/Disagree?) You certainly have a way with words, & I can argee with you on most of it. I'm not plagued by the family, it's in my past, just when this happened it was like a flashback of previous situations. When I was still in, doing CTP or witnessing, I never really could care less about helping orphans, etc. I would try to convince myself that I had a heart for them & "burden", but generally my whole life I never gave 2 shits about anything. Then you see these girls so messed up with their views on life & heading straight for trouble, & I hoped I could help them avoid it because though my entire teen life I wasn't nearly as "protected" from the outside world even when I was still in the fam: went to public schools,tv & music was fine, my parents always let me stay out till late on weekends, etc(was fm since 9yrs old.). Even though I left comepletely a year ago, it didn't really make much difference to me. Others, instead were very sheltered, you all know the story, on personal money, no tv, no system music, no non-family friends, so outside they are helpless. Those were the few times I really wanted to help someone else, because I could maybe, in some way, but there's never been a "happy ending" to it. I've avoided alot of trouble as a younger teen simply by realizing that I was(still am) a stupid fuck & I try to learn from people older than me, not taking anything as 100% truth, but at least not thinking: " well, I'm too smart, it won't happen to me". (reply to this comment)

from dave Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:02 (Agree/Disagree?) Sad. So sad. How quickly the Family and other cults abandon their youth just because they desire to walk a different path and reject their indoctrination. I dare say the Family and other cults have been worse to their second-gen members than the churches and society were to them as hippies and disolusioned, miguided youth of the late '60s and '70s . One woman in the cult I knew several years ago just about hated her 13 year old daughter and often gave her the hell and damnation speech because she did not want to be in the Family any more. She would put this girl under such mental anguish, bashing her for not being "discipleship" material. While it's true that some young folks who leave home, and who escape cults end up in trouble by their own ignorance and not heeding the advise of wiser or older people they come in contact with.... it's deplorable how the parents of such kids really couldn't care less about them. The attitude I've seen and heard from such parents is "see, I told you so". Worse, some parents did not even know where their kids were, what kind of trouble they were in. All some cult parents care about is their 'status' within the cult and how 'close' to Jesus they are. Shame. (reply to this comment)

From Rae Tuesday, February 11, 2003, 06:16 (Agree/Disagree?) tell me about it!! ever since that vandari message came out, my sister and I have had no contact from our mom, she's totally cut us off, I wrote her a letter asking her if she truly believed such BS and her defence was the silence treatment. For new years she finally wrote me a message, "guess what, your sister's fifth kid just popped out, isn't that wonderful. happy new years" yea sure shows she cares! (reply to this comment)

From pharmaboy Monday, September 16, 2002, 23:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Already puberty/adolesence are some of the most difficult times in your life, even in a "normal", well-balanced enviorment. These kids I've known in some way are actually disturbed mentally, & there is little that can be done for them because counselors/pyschologists can only identify the symtoms, but not the root & their whole background. I've been to shrinks, but usually they just diagnose dysthimia or depression and try to medicate, but it dosen't really get to the bottom. If there would be an ex-fam. shrink, that knows where they are coming from, maybe....(reply to this comment)

From Auty Monday, September 16, 2002, 15:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Absolutely right on Dave. Classic example is my cousin who has been tossed around from family member(most being the older siblings)to juevenile wards. Her mother (my aunt) who is still in the F in S.America just lost one of her sons to suicide (my cousin). She is so blinded by the F's way of thinking that "all things work together" that she has forgotten her own children. (reply to this comment)