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from Phoenixkidd Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 15:31 (Agree/Disagree?) 3jinos, as shocking as this may sound, the greatest cure for me has been education and myself and my good friend, now my partner, I've recently started telling many others too. Some listen some don't, I don't care. I understand that they simply cannot understand, even someone who has been making a living out of sitting and listening to people vent for a job. It's just that growing up hearing a completely utalitarian and counter-religious view of the world, just the notion of telling a complete stranger about a topic that you know they could never quite grasp just seems so futile, they just move on to another topic. I've found my best help have been other ex-members observing how they move on and develop meaningful relations with others and try their best to pursue happiness. As far as the alcohol thing, I think most of us are in a prolonged state of childhood having never experienced it. Growing up I wasn't allowed to do so many things like drink, even wear jeans or in some cases have a boyfriend or girlfriend! So excuse me if I seem overdependent on cigs and alki!   (reply to this comment)

From ginger52 Saturday, July 05, 2008, 09:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Altho I do agree that getting an education, a career and making great friends is a good way to get over it all. I was doing all that until I felt like I was running on double speed for so long just trying to catch up on what I missed out on. Talking to someone really did help to put things into perspective and realise that yes, there was alot that happened and just trying to 'forget about it all', or get past it was not going to work. I have to say telling my friends about it did help our friendship alot and made it easier for them to understand me. (reply to this comment)

from ginger52 Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 22:10 (Agree/Disagree?) I just wanted to comment on your post, I know you were asking for counseling refferal sites. I had actually posted something a while ago if anyone knew someone professional I could talk to. I have been out of the Family for over 9 years but had hit rock bottom and felt like I had to talk to someone. I didnt want to have to sit and pay a bunch of money to someone and tell them from the beginning what the Family was all about. I found someone in the Los Angeles area who was a great help to me and is knowledgeable in the Family's doctrines and so made it easier to talk with her. This is her info incase anyone feels like they want some one to talk to: Mary Jo Cysewski, MA Ph: 310-963-4000 mjcysewski@ca.rr.com http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_detail.php?profid=37029&sid=1214922995.0049_12375&city=Los+Angeles&county=Los+Angeles&state=California&lastname=Cysewski She works out of her home and so is an intimate setting and not so intimidating. I have to sat it was the worse and best thing for me. I hated bring up so much shit I had repressed but it help me come to grips with alot of things in my life.   (reply to this comment)

from Haunted Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 08:52 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi there, As Falcon mentioned below - we are currently compiling a list of counselors. There is also a retreat up in MA that has offered to treat/counsel ex-members. We met with them after the Montel taping and they have been very supportive of our needs and are familiar with the situation as well. If you'd like I can get you the information. (reply to this comment)

from GoldenMic Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 16:14 (Agree/Disagree?) Hi there, I just got back from a cult-related conference, but I wanted to respond to your comments/questions. I will seperately respoond to your question related to cult-victims compared to addicts, but related to resources for SGA's seeking counseling, you will be surprised to find there are very few problem-specific resources available. Safe Passages (SPF) and RISE are both developing lists of counselor referrals, and there is a list available form the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), but it is important to note that these lists mostly represent therapists who have some interest in working with cult victims and who can be expected to do no harm. That is, there is NO body of training, research, and history related to working with SGA's, and only a very few counselors in the entire world who can be said to have "expertise" in this area. I am personally participating in a series of 3-day workshops sponsored by ICSA that I believe are having a positive therapeutic effect, but you would be shocked at how little expertise there is to draw from in the development and creation of these workshops. Frankly, some of my friends on this site, and other SGA's I know, have gone to psychiatric trauma specialists, and even there it is found that the phenomenon of cult-survival is little seen and generally unknown. Otherwise, it takes a bit of luck and a lot of testing to find a counselor who has the inherent skills and ethics, one who is willing to learn about cults, and who has the ability to apply general principles of counseling and long-term trauma to the issues of SGA's. Right now, that's as far as we go, though SPF and RISE and even the ICSA have made a strong commitment to identifying, developing, and improving access and resources. (reply to this comment)

from nicole Monday, June 30, 2008 - 17:34 (Agree/Disagree?) Working on something for school I stumbled on this site. I thought the strengths and challenges were interesting and pretty insightful -- for me anyways. I think a lot of us have our work cut out for us when it comes to experiencing healing or at least a sense of "dealing-with-it" in a functional way. http://knappfamilycounseling.com/acocm.html (reply to this comment)

from Falcon Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 16:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I can give you a list of a few counselors, but it would help if you would give me an area you're in, as they're spread around the place and I can direct you to someone relatively local. Also, Safe Passage Foundation is compiling a list of therapists and resources, and if it's not up on the site already, it will be soon. www.safepassagefoundation.net (reply to this comment)

from 3jinosos Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 11:42 (Agree/Disagree?) Do I have this correct? Nobody on this site knows how to go about getting referrals for a good counselor who can help deal with the PTSD issues that growing up in a sex cult caused? In my opinion there is a need for a support group where you can meet and talk about your struggles with peers same as an AA group does. The difference is it was not your choice to be born to a sex cult whereas an alcoholic makes the choice to drink. It seems the struggle is daily. On a side note I believe it is safe to say many ex-member sga's turn to self-medicating with alcohol and or drugs to cope with thier issues. As for comparing alcoholics with ex-cult members, it is the skeleton in the closet. Our 17-year-old summaried it like this, "Well, it's a long story but basically my dad was raised in a sex cult." It definately has more shock value than, "My dad is a drunk." The end of the world? How many times was that predicted? Thank you putting doomsday predictions into to a laughable light. (reply to this comment)

From Sharon Wednesday, July 02, 2008, 10:25 (Agree/Disagree?) My comments are underlined. Where does one find references for medical professionals who can properly treat second generation adults who are no longer members? :  Refer to GoldenMic’s comments for more info. There are hardly any professionals that are familiar with the phenomena of SG’s much less trained to help. Depending on the geographical area you are at, some of us may be able to provide our own recommendations. Does anyone have a link to a counselor referral site? :  If you are in the US try  www.411.com or you can just call them by dialing “411” There should be an exfamily support group. It should be similar to AA.   Yes, there should be a support group (s). I don’t think it should be similar to AA. (Movingon is sort of a support group for some). How many are alcoholics and/or drug addicts. Is self-medicating lightly or moderately acceptable? I’m sure there are many, probably most. Is it acceptable? Are you asking if it’s healthy? In general it’s not healthy or “acceptable” to self-medicate, however, that may be the only thing that is keeping some people around. To me, that makes it acceptable for the time-being. Take what you will from that. The "Family" literally tore apart 1000's of families. The children and parents may want to become a family again after many years of being entrapped by this cult, but has no idea how to go about living with the past. I think every person needs to come to grips with their own individual past at some point. There really is no way to tell someone how to go about doing that. Sometimes letting go of a family is the healthier thing to do. An ex-member SGA may want to have deeper connection to their non-ex-member family. Since they were denied the opportunity to form attachments as children, they cannot make a connection now. Yup, not sure what the question is. How many can actually say they lived with their father, mother, and siblings continuously throughout childhood? Probably most. Why do religious groups always compare themselves to system statistics? It's ok to abuse our children because systemites do it too.  Again, seems like a rhetorical question. Why can't they be shut down and locked up for the crimes they committed? Some of them can and have. For others, justice is delayed due to statute of limitations, lack of knowledge of the perps names, lack of funding, lack of knowledge of whereabouts, the individual choice by the abused to not pursue that course of justice, etc. Why do the victims have to pay for the counseling?  Because the abusers haven’t been forced to. Why did that judge give those kids in texas back to their polygamous parents so the child abuse can continue? Not getting into this. Again. Talk to Jolifam. Many believe the end of the world is coming in 2012. Should we be preparing? I begin to think this may be a troll. What is wrong with this world? Now I REALLY think it may be a troll. (reply to this comment)

From Sharon Wednesday, July 02, 2008, 10:26 (Agree/Disagree?) The underline option doesn't show up. I'm in a bad mood and don't feel like changing it. (reply to this comment)

From sar Sunday, June 29, 2008, 00:37 (Agree/Disagree?) I have no idea about counsellor referrals, if someone you know does have PTSD, I think you would want a psychiatrist.  But then, I suppose, a counsellor can always refer you. I do not know anyone that was born in the fam and left that self-medicates.  I know many people that drink and take drugs.  Percentage wise, I know more people that were not exfam that drink and take drugs than those that are exfam that drink and take drugs.  Based on my own experiences, I do not think the percentage of exfam that drink and take drugs is any higher than the rest of society.  Comparing being raised in a cult to being an alcoholic is insulting and inaccurate.  You acknowledge the difference in that an alcoholic chooses to be so, but one does not choose to be raised in a cult.  There are other differences.  "My dad is a drunk" gives the impression that the dad is at fault and there is something lacking in his parenting.  It makes one think perhaps he is even abusive and violent.  It reflects on his parenting abilities.  Conversely, I do not believe being raised in a cult will adversely affect one's parenting abilities.  People who were raised in and left a cult have rejected the cult's ideologies and make their own determinations.  If you have had a look through this site, you will notice that what then come to conclude varies hugely from person to person and, it seems to me, often goes along with the predominant views of the society within which they are assimilated.  When you assume that one's parenting abilities will be affected by the way one was raised, ignores the fact that most ex family members (unlike the majority of other sectors of society), have rejected the way they were brought and make up their own mind as to how to raise their child.  Exfam SGAs are, I think, less likely to harm their child than people who were raised in "normal" society, the latter being more likely to carry on harmful practices which they have not questioned. Having been raised in the Family is not a skeleton in my closet.  It cannot be compared to killing a person and hiding the body.  It does not reflect on me. You can neither explain nor determine my behaviour by that fact.  It is not something we did wrong.  It is not even something we did.  Having left the Family evidences one thing and one thing only.  I am able to think independently.  I have challenged the cultural and moral values of a society I was brought up in.  I can and will think for myself.  It says nothing more nor less about me.  I will not be blamed, pittied, pigeon holed, or pegged with mental illnesses.(reply to this comment)

From rainy Saturday, June 28, 2008, 16:26 (Agree/Disagree?) There has definitely been information about counselors who work with our particular needs posted on this site before, I'm just having a hard time finding it. Where is librarian Vix when you need her? Jules? Little help? Sorry it's taken a while, but this information does exist. That's why I asked which country you are in, because I think the listing was for the States.(reply to this comment)

From vix Sunday, June 29, 2008, 01:06 (Agree/Disagree?) Hiya Rainy.  We never got to chat :( Probably one of the best people on this site to ask about therapy is Goldenmic.  He seems to be quite active in organising and participating in ex member workshops.  (reply to this comment)

From vix Sunday, June 29, 2008, 01:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Are you going to join me in the chatroom?  (reply to this comment)

From rainy Saturday, June 28, 2008, 16:29 (Agree/Disagree?) Ah, it was the next article on the sidebar down from yours: http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=8&Cat=33&ID=3962 (reply to this comment)

From Ne Oublie Saturday, June 28, 2008, 12:25 (Agree/Disagree?) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2061339/Stiff-upper-lip-best-way-to-deal-with-shock.html(reply to this comment)

from thatata Friday, June 27, 2008 - 16:36 (Agree/Disagree?) Who cares! All we need is a place in the sun, or the shadows. Most exmembers dont even post on this site. And for all anyones theatrics, and showing how theyre so caring -they dont care. There is no justice or even just us. THERE IS JUST YOU AND YOUR CLOSE RELATIVES.     (reply to this comment)

From thatata Friday, June 27, 2008, 16:37 (Agree/Disagree?) I could be wrong of course.(reply to this comment)

From I should add Friday, June 27, 2008, 23:13 (Agree/Disagree?) You are right, most people don’t care.  Often, there is no justice.  What Is wrong with this world?  (reply to this comment)

From thatata Tuesday, July 01, 2008, 11:01 (Agree/Disagree?) I was bored, confused, and exaggerating (and mostly wrong). Its annoying when you have to go back and read your own comments! I especially hate the cliches.(reply to this comment)

From oh, Tuesday, July 01, 2008, 16:30 (Agree/Disagree?) what were you confused about? (reply to this comment)

From thatata Wednesday, July 02, 2008, 14:17 (Agree/Disagree?) Confused in composition and purpose. (reply to this comment)

From thatata Wednesday, July 02, 2008, 14:24 (Agree/Disagree?) How is that?(reply to this comment)

From Glade to see you added this last part cause, Friday, June 27, 2008, 16:58 (Agree/Disagree?) You Are....   Wrong that is...esp. for posting that previous comment.   I, for one, don’t get along with most of my parents relatives. (reply to this comment)

from sar Friday, June 27, 2008 - 08:50 (Agree/Disagree?) How are exfamily members comparable to alcoholics?  Particularly, how are people who grew up in the family and then left the family at the age of reason comparable to alcoholics?  (reply to this comment)

from Samuel Friday, June 27, 2008 - 06:47 (Agree/Disagree?) The end of the world in 2012?  I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I mean, what's the worst that could happen? (reply to this comment)

from rainy Friday, June 27, 2008 - 05:32 (Agree/Disagree?) In which country? (reply to this comment)