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from Kelly Friday, February 08, 2008 - 11:59 (Agree/Disagree?) "Can i answer the question?" I Hate you thatata! (reply to this comment)

from Kelly Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 10:29 (Agree/Disagree?) is it something like.....keep on reasoning and you find your self obsessed with passion...?...I forgot exactly how it went... (reply to this comment)

From thatata Monday, August 13, 2007, 02:20 (Agree/Disagree?) ...its a bit of confused writing...its about thinking I guess...and of course its ironic not to be taken seriously;its unserious seriousness or is it serious unseriousness?All words can be messed with especially "truth".In a way of speaking, seeking truth is untruth.Or is "seeking" itself truth,that might be ok but then what is "truth" its not there.Truth is a ghost. In certain situations distinctions disappear.Ive never reached this state,and dont even wish too,but it exists.The bird is not a word the bird is a _____. Is it better to play with thought or to be played by thought?I think I enjoy playing with thoughts and thinking thoughts,but Man is in my view more of a "artist" then a "thinker".What think you? (reply to this comment)

From Kelly Monday, August 13, 2007, 10:31 (Agree/Disagree?) perhaps...it certainly is less tiresome... currently, I am listening to (books on tape) ‘Crime and Punishment’ by Dostoevsky....talk about being played by thoughts.....I’ve read it before and will read it again, and again. cause it’s no joke....if you have time read it (perhaps you have already?) and we could discuss ........ (reply to this comment)

From thatata Monday, August 13, 2007, 23:14 (Agree/Disagree?) I have'nt read Crime and Punishment I might though. I currently got a book of Salvador Dalis that Im planning to read. Have you ever read Dostoyevsky's Notes from the Undergroud? Ive read that one.(reply to this comment)

From Friendly advice Monday, August 13, 2007, 08:04 (Agree/Disagree?) There is hope for you yet. If you would just put a space after periods and comma's your grammar wouldn't be that bad. Also, lay off the ellipsis, you aren't using it right anyway. (reply to this comment)

From thatata Monday, August 13, 2007, 09:57 (Agree/Disagree?) Thanks, yeah, it didn't even come to my mind. I mean about spacing after commas and periods. And the ellipsis was wrong... wasn't it? Must check that thing called "Basic Manual of Style" at the back of the diktionary, or something...(reply to this comment)

From AndyH Sunday, August 12, 2007, 12:24 (Agree/Disagree?) *throws rocks at kelly(reply to this comment)

From Kelly Sunday, August 12, 2007, 14:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Andy... ...Since you cast the first stone, are you trying to tell me you are the savior? ;-P (reply to this comment)

From AndyH Sunday, August 12, 2007, 19:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Heh, no. I was just doing a favor for a friend. (reply to this comment)

From Kelly Monday, August 13, 2007, 05:37 (Agree/Disagree?) ;-)(reply to this comment)

From Samuel Sunday, August 12, 2007, 20:11 (Agree/Disagree?) (whispers to Kelly) Some friend HE turned out to be! (reply to this comment)

From Kelly Monday, August 13, 2007, 07:16 (Agree/Disagree?) objective-- it’s all about how you see it—complement/criticism/or just plan fun etc? I have to say, I am fascinated by the idea of multiple realities....(reply to this comment)

From AndyH Monday, August 13, 2007, 08:22 (Agree/Disagree?) Me too, I suppose in some alternate reality, your comment makes sense. ;D(reply to this comment)

From yes......that is why i see what see.... Monday, August 13, 2007, 09:36 (Agree/Disagree?) cause there is no point in pondering non-sense...u c?...k, bi(reply to this comment)

from cheeks Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Ohhh, I know what you are saying don't write articles when you are intoxicated or high. (reply to this comment)

From thatata Thursday, August 02, 2007, 02:38 (Agree/Disagree?) How come youre always telling people what not to do?If we had it your way there would be no debate here. And honey;everybodys high they just dont know it. If youre still into thinking or have a love of poetry,perhaps this prose poem by Charles Baudelaire will do you some good,or,it might even make you think: GET HIGH You must always be high.Everything depends on it:it is the only question.So as not to feel the horrible burden of Time wreaking your back and bending you to the ground,you must get high without respite. But on what?On wine,on poetry,or on virtue,whatever you like.But get high. And if sometimes you wake up,on palace steps,on the green grass of a ditch,in your rooms gloomy solitude,your intoxication already waning or gone,ask the wind,the waves,the stars,the birds,clocks,ask everything that flees,everything that moans,everything that moves,everything that sings,everything that speaks,ask what time it is.And the wind,the waves,the stars,the birds,clocks,will answer,"It is time to get high!So as not to be the martyred slaves of Time,get high;get high constantly!On wine,on poetry,or on virtue ,as you wish."(reply to this comment)

From AndyH Thursday, August 02, 2007, 09:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I like that poem very much. (reply to this comment)

From thatata Thursday, August 02, 2007, 10:20 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah,Baudelaires pretty cool.The translation I read was Edward k. Kaplans translation.This is named Parisian Prowler,I think other translations might call it Paris Spleen.(reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 09:13 (Agree/Disagree?) I like it too but I prefer the following translation, which I deem more elegantly worded: Be always drunken. Nothing else matters: that is the only question. If you would not feel the horrible burden of Time weighing on your shoulders and crushing you to the earth, be drunken continually. Drunken with what? With wine, with poetry, or with virtue, as you will. But be drunken. And if sometimes, on the stairs of a palace, or on the green side of a ditch, or in the dreary solitude of your own room, you should awaken and the drunkenness be half or wholly slipped away from you, ask of the wind, or of the wave, or of the star, or of the bird, or of the clock, or whatever flies, or sighs, or rocks, or sings, or speaks, ask what hour it is; and the wind, wave, star, bird, clock, will answer you: 'It is the hour to be drunken! Be drunken, if you would not be martyred slaves of Time; be drunken continually! With wine, with poetry, or with virtue, as you will." (reply to this comment)

From thatata Saturday, September 01, 2007, 10:13 (Agree/Disagree?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcqpx7NrVEc this might be good, not really into clouds though.(reply to this comment)

From thatata Thursday, August 02, 2007, 10:39 (Agree/Disagree?) Well I think the word "high" sounds better then "drunken".Since by saying get high on wine he means-but it also includes other intoxicants.Just like get high on poetry doesnt mean just poetry,but on other artistic endevers too,I mean thats what I think. But on the other hand he wrote in a small book or article,his distate for Hashish and some rather perhaps excessive praise for wine.But in both it seems he wasnt an excessive taker of im.He became an opium addict though. And I dont know,I like to get drunk,but this constant use of the word "drunken" I dont know,it sounds a little degenerated,its got bad connotations. (reply to this comment)

From AndyH Thursday, August 02, 2007, 10:59 (Agree/Disagree?) A french guy who likes wine? Now you've lost me. I just feel like "drunk" says every thing that "drunken" says, which is probably why the suffix has been all but dropped. Does anyone know what the french title was?(reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 11:07 (Agree/Disagree?) I think it's 'Enivrez-Vous', but don't take my word for it. (reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 10:41 (Agree/Disagree?) I see your point, and it's a good one. I still like drunken, though, it's got no bad connotations for me :-) (reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 09:35 (Agree/Disagree?) Eh now that I've compared the two, all that repitition of 'or' is bugging me. Perhaps I'll respectfully plagiarise a version of my own: And if sometimes, on the stairs of a palace, or on the green side of a ditch, or in the dreary solitude of your own room, you should awaken and the drunkenness be half or wholly slipped away from you, ask of the wind, the wave, the star, the bird, the clock, or whatever flies, or sighs, or rocks, or sings, or speaks, ask what hour it is; and the wind, wave, star, bird, clock, will answer you: 'It is the hour to be drunken! Be drunken, if you would not be martyred slaves of Time; be drunken continually! With wine, with poetry, or with virtue, as you will." Whaddaya think? (reply to this comment)

From AndyH Thursday, August 02, 2007, 10:13 (Agree/Disagree?) I like it, but I would use drunk as opposed to drunken, just as long as we're modernizing it a bit, it rolls off the tongue easier that way. (reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 10:40 (Agree/Disagree?) I shall have to pout, I like the 'drunken' bit, that's a big part of the charm for me! And I wasn't aware that it's being modernised, is that the effect you think it has? In that case I prefer the original version that I posted. When are you going to post more of your own? (reply to this comment)

From AndyH Thursday, August 02, 2007, 11:01 (Agree/Disagree?) Funny you should ask, I'm actually working on a couple now. One of which might be to personal for this site. I'll of course let you read it though. (reply to this comment)

From AndyH Thursday, August 02, 2007, 11:02 (Agree/Disagree?) *too(reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 11:15 (Agree/Disagree?) Thank you, I'll look forward to it. (reply to this comment)

from rainy Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 01:01 (Agree/Disagree?) Logic. (reply to this comment)

From thatata Wednesday, August 01, 2007, 02:49 (Agree/Disagree?) Thats a very reasonable answer.But in that situation a person is never true.There is no end to thinking."Expression begins where thought ends" The tragedy of reasoning is it has no end,a person cant act,everything restrains him.He becomes super-selfconscious.That is, if he nihilistically pursues this glorified ghost called logic. Of course to say"feeling" is truth is problamatic its kind of absurd.In one way it makes sense.In another way its absurd,I mean its a bit of a perversion of language or logic isnt it? Check out this circular play upon words, I came up with a few months ago: In the begining was the word or was the word the beginning?(reply to this comment)

From vix Wednesday, August 01, 2007, 10:14 (Agree/Disagree?) "The tragedy of reasoning is it has no end,a person cant act,everything restrains him.He becomes super-selfconscious.That is, if he nihilistically pursues this glorified ghost called logic." There's much truth in that. As for logic vs. feeling, before one can define which is truth one must define the perimeters of that truth. There are different truths (and varying levels of each) depending on just how abstract/concrete you want to get. (reply to this comment)

From thatata Thursday, August 02, 2007, 04:11 (Agree/Disagree?) The perimeters of truth.Hmmm... The abstract and the concrete.As far as abstractions goes there is no end,and as far as the concrete goes we live in abstractions. Its kind of fucked in a way. Have you ever read anything on Zen Buddhism?Its kind of interesting,unlike the western tradition of religion and logic,where they try to find the concrete through abstraction.Zen trys to find the concrete through the concrete.I wonder if that makes sense? As for myself,I like abstractions.Im not into Zen though I think it has great insight,its just too difficult.I think Baudelaires pretty cool,he has been variously thought of as a catholic,a satanist,and even as a realist.He once wrote this interesting thing in his journal: "If God did not exist,Religion would be none the less holy and divine. "God is the sole being who has no need to exist in order to reign. "That which is created by the Spirit is more living than matter." I hope this reply is not innapropiate,or going off on some totally other confused line of thought...(reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 07:40 (Agree/Disagree?) Not at all inappropriate, and as far as I'm concerned confused lines of thought make life interesting. Zen, yes I'm interested in all the schools of Buddhism. If you know more than me about it (which generally isn't difficult, I'm interested but haven't ever studied it in any great depth) then I'd certainly appreciate the opportunity to learn more, if nothing else it's always helpful to hear a different perception than my own. Baudelaire, I like some of his poetry a lot but as usual with me (unfortunately), I've never really given his work the sustained attention that it deserves. I hope you will grace us with your presence in chat more often, it should be interesting to have further interaction with you - Pretty keen on the old abstraction myself. (reply to this comment)

From thatata Thursday, August 02, 2007, 11:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Zen;people would think its religious,but mabye the word spiritrual might be better.Of course the word spiritual is also sort of ambiguious.Its the way of no way;which of course sounds stupid.Its difficult and easy,difficult perhaps because it is easy.All the same I will not become a zen man.And I dont think I could be anyway. In the schools of Buddhism,which Im not really familiar with myself.I think Zen is classified within the Mahayana school,or class.Its the mixing or I dont know,fruitation of Indian Buddhism with Taoist thought.If you want to read up on it,I would suggest Alan.W.Wattses The Way of Zen. The old abstraction I dont know if I understand that,actually I do its the ol' abstraction,but not the "old" abstraction. Damn,it I hope Im not talking like an asshole.(reply to this comment)

From vix Thursday, August 02, 2007, 11:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Heh yeah, not 'old' as in 'ancient'. Whether Buddhism is religion, spirituality or simply a framework for achieving balance within oneself is more to do with the individual's approach to it, I think. I find many of its basic tenets quite attractive but something (I don't quite know what it is) prevents me making a commitment to holding myself to them. The way of no way doesn't sound stupid to me at all, in fact I find it a particularly appealing concept, regardless of its apparent paradox. To me, it ties in nicely with the whole concept of the centred self. (or maybe I'm the one talking out of my ass...) (reply to this comment)

From thatata Friday, August 03, 2007, 03:50 (Agree/Disagree?) Zen is about nonalienation,nonduality.Its a tool of liberation.Liberation is different from Salvation ,at least you can make this dichotomy:Salvation is being saved by someone else,while Liberation is being saved from yourself. I guess its like using all your powers by not using your powers;it makes sense in a way. Still Im a big fan of alienation.I dont think Ill ever get over it or mabye even want to.Like what is the life of Zen,if you let go?(reply to this comment)