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from qtie Friday, June 15, 2007 - 20:31 (Agree/Disagree?) gurl there are other people that got it way worse than u so stop being sorry for ur self!!!!!! and be happy u wernt brought up in the ghetto or some shit....ur lucky!! stop feeling sorry for ur self stop being a loser!!! ur better than that . (reply to this comment)

From bluesky Thursday, June 21, 2007, 20:55 (Agree/Disagree?) who are you to tell me to stop feeling??? are you even an excog? I was not writing this to feel sorry for myself. You don't know me so don't tell me i'm lucky! Who said anything about the fucking Getto?? Sorry if you were born in the getto but that doesn't have anythihg to do with what I was talking about, and if you are still living that getto life than its your fault for not getting out. Don't throw that card at me because if my getto father would have taking responsiblity for having four kids and didn't leave us to smoke weed in his getto then I would have been brought up in the getto! which is worse? the drugs, violence, poverty, and filth. Or being raped, abandoned, brainwashed and used everyday to make the rent by dressing sexy and flirting with men to get money! You figure it out. (reply to this comment)

from qtie Friday, June 15, 2007 - 20:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Young mothers That's right I feel ya (hey) I know how it is (MAMA's JUST A LIL' GIRL) Don't nobody understand I feel ya [Verse 1: Tupac] She was .. Born A heavy set girl with pig tails and curls A heart full of gold Still it won't change the world Though she could never understand why Some underhanded plans, witnessed a man die Was only 15 Should have been a beauty queen Still see here crying by the caskets when here parents got killed Little girl don't cry 'Coz even though they died You can best believe they watching over thee from the sky Never asked for this misery But look at what you gettin' It's a blessing in disguise When you find out your pregnant No money, no home And even though you all alone You'se got to do this on your own So baby go on I wish you luck And if you need me, call Just come to me and let me feed you all I can understand The way it feels when you fighting the world Facing all this drama When mama's just A little girl [Chorus] Mama Don't know why Mama's just a little girl Given that she's a ?? Time ain't on her side Mama's just a little girl (Mama's just a little girl) She gotta hold her head up high [Verse 2: Tupac] At 16 what a beautiful thing The very essence of a jet black ebony queen And who could tell she would get pregnant at an early age She didn't listen, had sex Watch her belly raise (hey) Got violated by someone she dated If this is fate I hate to see the seed she created So we wait, though it takes time to build the body and the mind She reclines 9 months Then finally its time What do we find? A little grown boy a mind with a tortured soul Addicted to a life of crime at no time of the growing stage He learned his values on the streets at an early age Watch for police Don't come home (why) 'Coz mammas acting crazy At the hospital 'Bout to have another baby Like the rose from concrete Grown within Blessed with twins How the hell can mamma raise 3 men So we began a closest family Such insanity A happy home For one act inhumanity Plus mammas said the seed was corrupted Used the rubber belly Begging us to breathe if she love us Now mamma sits quiet Sipping peppermint schnapps Turned the house into a spot and made her watch for cops (hey) How could mamma bring a thug like me into this world? She ain't the cause of all the drama Cause mommas just a little girl [Chorus] Mama Don't know why Mama's just a little girl Liven if she is or not Time ain't on her side Cause ama's just a little girl (Mama's just a little girl) She gotta hold her head up high (How could she raise us) [Verse 3: Tupac] Now Would she remain in the same spot? The gunshots rang, they came from the cane spot Now look here I see her clutching her son In her arms she hurt Her heart bleeding as she watched her seed die in the dirt Fulfill prophecy But who could stop the grief? I walk around trying to hold the world up on top me Probably be an innocent man But still I'm the victim of a curse What could be worse? Nothing but pain Since my birth, taught me functions at the pen Cause everybody's in paying back society I'm guilty of a life of sin I watched the drama occur My eyes blurred 'fore I jet it I wonder why we all have to die for we get it Though we shed tears So many peers I done buried Worried and scared Knowing I'ma see the cemetery Must be prepared in this cold world No-one cares No it ain't fair But we all there And do our share In this land of underhanded schemes and plans Vivid dreams of a nigga having g's in hand Mamma told me not to be a punk Fuck what you talking about coward What you niggas want? (hey) They ain't a thing I wouldn't do for my mamma in this world Cause you know I ain't mad at cha You' just a little girl See mammas just a little girl (hey hey) [Chorus] [Repeat until fade] Mama don't know why Mama's just a little girl Given that she is or not time ain't on here side mama's just a little girl (mama's just a little girl) she gotta hold her head up high [Tupac Talking] They ask us why we mutilate each other like we do And wonder why we hold such little worth for human life Facing all this drama But to ask us why we to turn from bad to worse Is to ignore from which we came You see you wouldn't ask why the rose that grew from the concrete had damaged petals On the contrary We would all celebrate its tenacity We would all love its will to reach the sun Well We are the roses (echo) This is the concrete (echo) And these are my damaged petals (echo) Don't ask me why (echo) Thank god nigga (echo) Ask me how (echo) (hahaha) You see, mama's just a little girl (reply to this comment)

from cheeks Friday, June 08, 2007 - 09:02 (Agree/Disagree?) I read this article a few days ago and decided I was not in the right frame of mind to comment on it. I honnestly don't know if I am in the right frame of mind now but here I am. I think first of all you need to consider that you have depression in some form. There is nothing wrong with that I think most of us here have had it at one time or another. One thing the Family did not teach us was coping skills for the most part we learned to repress our emotions and now having left we have to learn those for the first time. You say you don't fit in. Fit in to what? Do you really want to be a cookie cutter wife or mother? Life is what you make it, and I don't think you have decided what you want yours to be. Stop pretending to be something you are not and do what you enjoy. Read, bike, write crappy poetry, paint, go hiking with your kids or spend the day in bed. Find out what you enjoy and go from there. When you know who you are, find people who are secure in themselves. Enjoy your life, enjoy your kids, forget about the rest. (reply to this comment)

from sar Friday, June 08, 2007 - 02:26 (Agree/Disagree?) What do you want to belong to? (reply to this comment)

from scorpion Thursday, June 07, 2007 - 12:29 (Agree/Disagree?) don worry ur not the only one that feels that way. whoever was in that shit can relate to you, thats what i think. cause the way we were brought up wasnt normal. i finally got used to the normal world, and at first i was like whoa this is fuked! but one thing that helped me was to let the past go. if you dont let go of somthing you can never move on rit?? well thats what i think. you got ur whole life ahead of u why not make it better?? life is like a boats...u can eather be a rowboat and always look bak on ur life and say what ifs or u can be a motor boat, looking forward in ur life and leaving the past behind. haha i sound like a geek for saying that haha (reply to this comment)

from BlameFactor Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 12:55 (Agree/Disagree?) Friends,foes, dear Bluesky, Here’s a few observations, suggestions, ramblings from someone who has been monitoring this website for many years and never really felt challenged to contribute. Until now. I mean, complex issues surround us and there‘s an incredible variety of post cult experiences. Mine differs considerably from most folks here, so I never felt challenged to contribute much. Just for today, I'll make an exception. I think the majority of folks on this website, for one reason or another, have literally thrown out the baby with the bathwater as far as the cult, the teachings and their upbringing is concerned. And found themselves swinging the pendulum way over to the other side. I guess it is safe to say that this didn’t satisfy totally either. There’s a lot of anger on this site, anger that I can’t identify much with. I wonder whether the cult is being made a scapegoat for blaming all of life‘s problems on for some folks posting here. Life is all about associations, fitting in and finding a niche to belong. Somehwre. Life is about friendships, having a feeling of belonging and finding the group of people we feel close to. That’s a problem EVERYONE faces. Some go gothic, some go biker, some go punk, some go society, some go intellectual, some go political, some go anarchist, some go religious, some go nuts, other’s commit suicide – there‘s no end of associations: sports, arts, fishing, drugs and money – everyone needs someone to relate to and some place to fit. Problem with some of the hard corers on this site is the blame factor. For God‘s sake, people come from all kinds of backgrounds. Some have prostitutes and pimps for parents, some criminals, some parents are butchers, taxi drivers, racketeers, screwy intellectuals, neo-cons, some are CEO’s of the military industrial complex, the pharmaceutical industry, phony politicians, some have normal backgrounds like kids of tradesmen, professionals and some have parents who were/are in a cult, sect. Yes, we can probably get away for years with blaming all of our problems on the cult. Granted, it‘s an easy way out. If you play it smart there even a buck in it here and there. But does it help? Does it make happy? Does it satisfy? Why not look for a spiritual/intellectual home? Why not look for a philosophy to relate to? Why not look for the truth and serve it well? Why not join a peace movement, an anti-globalization group, philanthropic society, collect stamps, go fishing, learn diving – or plain just have a positive goal in mind and pursue it. Why even come to this site where everyone just seems to be belly-aching? I’m 32, left the cult 12 years ago, my name was David. I lived in Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Switzerland and Latin America. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I think I have a good sense of where things are not at. OK, if this, Movingon, is the association some will pick as their choice association – make the best of it! But I think most here can do better. Forget the f.....g cult. I have, I know you can too. Millions, billions of folks are doing the parent thing the world over. Let’s join the better parent thing. Bluesky, there are lots of people angry and lonely out there without the luxury of blaming it all on a cult. But if they chose to, they can blame it on the world in general, their country, the times we live in, the capitalists, the communist, the dictator they live under, the poverty surrounding them – and many are doing just that. They found their cult and the scapegoat to blame their problems on. But here comes the hard saying many here will take exception to: BUT THEY ARE LOSERS! Those who will succeed, will conquer their backgrounds, their circumstances, the particular set of cards they were dealt. They don’t dwell on the past, they dwell on the future. They forge on. Bluesky, don’t fall into the trap of the blame game. Life‘s tough, no matter what background you’re from. Try growing up in India. I’d say, find something to put your teeth in and don’t look back. Go for it. Don‘t look for partners in misery, look for partners and friends in whatever field you pick to apply yourself in positively. Most of all, don’t abandon the quest for truth, love and a better world. Be counted. Invest in your kids, be the best lil’ Mom around. Don‘t come here anymore. It will only drag you down. It’s a society of losers. Sorry folks, there’s just no nice way of saying this. (reply to this comment)

From ' Friday, June 08, 2007, 19:31 (Agree/Disagree?) You speak truth (yours at least), but there are a lot of unidentified assumptions packed into your manifesto, as well a few contradictions (I won't mention judgement values, forget about the condescending tone because it does not seem like something you would disclaim). On judgement values, you have found your path, from what you say. I guess you still think there is only one. (reply to this comment)

From bluesky Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 15:50 (Agree/Disagree?) You know what BlameFactor, I totaly agree with you. You are absolutley right! I for the most part have forgotten the Cult. I don't speak about it with anyone and I don't tell people where I'm from because it does bring me down. I don't believe the cult made who I am! I worked damn hard to be the Woman that I am today and "they" had nothing to do with it. I am for the most part happy, calm, positive, and well adusted and I try very hard everyday to show that behaviour to my two boys, but just like everyone else I too have my bad days and it feels good to vent sometimes. You see I am not trying to blame it all on the cult but the facts are simple. In the cult while growing up if you didn't like the place that you were or the people that you were having to live with. What did we do? If giving permisson we'd leave. At least I would. Its funny that you mentioned India because that is where I grew up. Untill I was 10 I was in India and I loved it there. Those are my happiest memories. After that I came back to the States and have been to every state there is with the exception of one or two. Truth is I didn't really have it all that bad growing up, it wasn't untill I was older like 16 when problems started and then I left pretty damn quick. I got really good at running away from the issues that I couldn't handle, or just didn't want to handle because I knew they were really wrong. I continued to do so when I left without a problem, no guilt. whatever. What I'm trying to say is this. I am going to suck it up and deal. I'm not going to let my feelings of wanting to run get the better of me. I will learn to control it. Because I love my Husband and my boys (3 and 5) they are my whole life. If there is anything worth fighting for. If there is anything to sink my teeth into its to be the best lil' Mom around. What you had to say was very good, very straitforward and really how I feel about life and our lot in it. But its also really awsome to know that there are others around that feel the same way and writing that little ramble did help me get back intouch with some old friends and make some new ones. This site may have alot of bitching on it. But I think that sometimes its good to get it all out there and bitch alittle. :)(reply to this comment)

From madly Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 13:30 (Agree/Disagree?) First off, I have to say that I agree with much of what you expressed as I have expressed likeminded views on many occasions, which you should know, being that you have monitored this site for years. Now, about what you said about everyone on this site being a loser, including yourself, since you have admitted to frequenting this site for years. I will not fight with you over what you are, as I am sure you know yourself well enough, but you can hardly put everyone else into the same box, neatly labeled as you have. There are losers on this site, yes, but there are many great minds and people who are grabbing life by the balls, blaming no one and taking responsibility for their own lives and actions. I happen to be one of them and I happen to know many more that fall into the same category. Why are you here if it brings you down? Take your own advice and go away and live your life in the way that suits you. (reply to this comment)

From GoldenMic Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 15:33 (Agree/Disagree?) Blamefactor, with all due respect for your honest and thoughtful analysis, I think you are wrong in your conclusions. I feel like you are using various words and concepts as if they are synonymous, and they are not. For instance, when you summarize the endless narrative here on Moving On as whining and blaming, using the past as a scapegoat, it seems to me that you are mis-labeling what is happening. In fact, this ongoing dialogue can just as easily be seen as an attempt to "re-master the past through re-telling the past", a classic and important component of true therapeutic recovery from long-term trauma. Frankly, from that perspective, "forgetting" and ignoring the past is a futile and destructive defence mechanism, a form of repression, and invariably leads to a host of unconscious and self-destructive thoughts and acting-out activities from within the psyche. While you are correct that each individual must ultimately come to terms with their own role in their life's postives and negatives, this process of self-understanding often begins with the attempt to understand where one has come from, and its effect. Frankly, the fact that other forms of trauma may be equal to or greater than the trauma of a cult childhood (a "fact" I actually do not concede) does not mean that one should ignore such a devastating, damaging, and unfair assault upon one's own youth. If one is to truly become free from the negative effects and acting out of a traumatic past, one will ultimately be compelled to "lean in" to that experience, re-master it, and come to terms with it. As always, I hope my words have not come across as condescending or attacking, which is not my motive. However, the reason I continue to participate in this ongoing narrative with my peers, despite often being dismissed as an outsider and an interloper, is because I can see and feel the value of continuing to lean in to my cult past, learning from it, seeing where and how it has damaged me, so I can become more truly free. Like many others here, the term "Loser" would not apply to my economic, educational, professional, or even my marital status... but I am a "loser" in the sense that I lost, through no fault of my own, the assumptuion that any well-loved and nurtured child has, of my own right to be loved and safe and worthy of happiness... and to have my personal integrity respected. This was a result of a group of rapacious and self-serving zealots who stole from me. I lost something, had it stolen, and it will probably take at least some energy, every day for the rest of my life, to compensate for and bear that loss. (reply to this comment)

From vix Wednesday, June 06, 2007, 15:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Always glad to benefit from your insights, GoldenMic. (reply to this comment)

from nix Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 10:26 (Agree/Disagree?) Don't it make your bluesky grey... (reply to this comment)

from MariaKL Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 15:09 (Agree/Disagree?) Just run...always works for me... (reply to this comment)

from murasaki Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 03:57 (Agree/Disagree?) You're definitely not the only one, I'm doing the wife/mother thing too so I can relate to you there. I've found it very difficult to get close to anyone as I always feel like I have to play a role, pretending to be normal so I can fit it as much as possible. I read somewhere recently that we choose friends who validate our perceptions of ourselves. If this is the case, given our complex past and how it has shaped out we see ourselves, it makes sense that many of us have difficulty developing intimacy. I can't say I have any total solutions, but I have found that accepting my differences and trying to find friends with whom I have enough common ground where they will appreciate my differences as well has helped. It's cliche, but knowing that I'm not the only one helps, it means that it's not my fault, I'm not wierd or defective. If my past circumstances are what made me this way, then there is hope that with time I can change enough to be happy. (reply to this comment)

from madly Friday, June 01, 2007 - 19:23 (Agree/Disagree?) Not to be cold and don’t take this the wrong way, but no… you probably won’t ever feel that you completely belong and what does that mean anyway? Does it mean we are supposed to fit into a certain type of life, a group, or society? I don’t know if anyone ever completely feels this way, especially not us, ones that were raised with such a bizarre upbringing that makes us forever different. How could we ever view life the same way or blend with those who cannot grasp what made us who we are? Does this mean that people who were not raised in a cult feel as they belong? I would have to say probably not, because no matter who are, what you feel you have haunting you from your past, most of us, and I mean all people in this world, don’t completely feel a part. Sadly, just the way it seems to be. So stop trying to fit in, instead let life set in and fit itself to you. When you stop trying to be something you’re not… you can finally learn what it is you are and that is as close to “belonging” as anyone will ever come. (reply to this comment)

from Moonsetter Friday, June 01, 2007 - 17:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Maybe this will appeal to you, and show you that you are not alone. http://corrupt.org/transcendence/women/ (reply to this comment)

from Moonsetter Friday, June 01, 2007 - 17:44 (Agree/Disagree?) Society is heading for disaster... www.corrupt.org (this site will definitely appeal to nihilists/anarchists) (reply to this comment)

from rainy Friday, June 01, 2007 - 17:28 (Agree/Disagree?) Bluesky, I'd say we all relate. I feel cheated that you can't even rebel anymore. The 60s and 70s kids had it all. The music that meant something so deep and so passionate, a collective rebellion and search for honesty and realness. Now kids who try to be original have their own rebellion sold back to them by the great commerce machine. No matter how hard you seek yourself, freedom from the madness, they can package that and put it on the market. It seems we're drowning in it. Homogenised, pasteurised free thought. Available to anyone at the click of a mouse. (reply to this comment)

From sar Friday, June 08, 2007, 02:43 (Agree/Disagree?) It is easy to romantise an erra we didn't live in. But really, "collective rebellion"? A bunch of people who decide to follow a narrower trend. Its still just a trend and they're still just following. They don't feel like they fit in to the mainstream so they dress different, but not original, they dress like a bunch of other people who are dressing the same kind of different. More and more people jump on the bandwagon and then the majority are dressing that kind of different. I'm using dress codes as an example, the thought processes follow the same route. I think few people feel like they belong so they try to fit into a smaller box. Not very many people have the confidence to be fine not belonging to or fitting into any box. It would make them different. What's packaged is not seeking oneself, but all the little boxes, and the packages come with everything in it, there's a range of beliefs and a range of outfits and people don't tend to mix the two. They're not looking for themselves or for rebellion, they're looking for an odd shaped box that they can fit into.(reply to this comment)

From nikki Saturday, June 02, 2007, 12:48 (Agree/Disagree?) I love the way you put that. Its how I feel at times and yet am unable to express in words. (reply to this comment)

From rainy Saturday, June 02, 2007, 14:14 (Agree/Disagree?) But of course, even that sentiment itself is constantly sold back to us. Aaargh! There is no escape. Well there is really. But who really wants it? Living without the modern world. I'm not as rebellious as I wish I could be. It's so comfortable just to relax and fit in. I wonder if we will ever see a big youth movement again? Individuality is so celebrated, but only if it fits the stereotype of how it should be expressed. The main problem is lack of original thought, because most people don't know what or how to think. They read and absorb and assimilate all the time.(reply to this comment)

from katrim4 Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 19:31 (Agree/Disagree?) Wow, did everyone that is 29 now leave in '96? It must have been the in thing to do at the time. Actually, I left in '97 but I am 29 so......close. You certainly are not alone. I don't know what it is about "us" but I've heard your sentiment more than once from those my age that are exers. Where are you at? Contact me through my profile if you'd like. Don't feel too alone, it at least gets bearable if not better. (reply to this comment)

From rainy Friday, June 01, 2007, 17:41 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes, I do remember that time period...finding out one after the other of your friends had left, each time having to re-affirm your faith and pray desperately for strength against doubts and the enemy's lies. 96. Mmmhmmm...tough times. Was that when Loving Jesus came out?(reply to this comment)

From vix Saturday, June 02, 2007, 03:45 (Agree/Disagree?) Yup, Loving Jesus came out in February '96. (reply to this comment)

From rainy Saturday, June 02, 2007, 05:47 (Agree/Disagree?) Ah yes. I was 'FM' by default at the time and never did end up reading the series.(reply to this comment)

From time bean Friday, June 01, 2007, 18:18 (Agree/Disagree?) I believe so. All of a sudden leaving became the thing to do, because hey, a guy having imaginary sex with Jesus is WEIRD.(reply to this comment)

From rainy Friday, June 01, 2007, 18:26 (Agree/Disagree?) just as weird for a girl, isn't it?(reply to this comment)

from clark Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 18:04 (Agree/Disagree?) Where do you live? How many kids? I too left in '96 and am 29. Doing the mom, wife thing as well and figured it's time to get an education. Yikes. (reply to this comment)

from shikaka Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 16:56 (Agree/Disagree?) I identify with what you've expressed. Im deeply dissatisfied with the way society functions, or rather, doesnt. I also have what you might call "transient personality disorder"...I change friends every few years, and try a new lifestyle. Its a restlessness. My taste in music constanly changes. My thinking leads more and more towards nihlism or anarchy, as I sometimes feel like no society would be preferrable to the one that currently exists. I despise the way laws are now written to protect people from themselves, how nobody is accountable for their actions anymore. The government invades every aspect of my life. If I want to wear a seatbelt, that should be my business (for example). I often think about going away, maybe for good. Or colonizing a distant planet. I was born in the wrong time. 1919 would have been nice. I feel the strong urge to go to huntington beach and start a cult. (reply to this comment)

From bluesky Friday, June 01, 2007, 08:40 (Agree/Disagree?) Thank you all for listening! That is what it is "transient personality disorder" it makes perfect sense. It is so wonderful to know that it is not only me out here going insane. I live in Dallas, Tx and I have 2 boys they are my whole life! The only thing that gets me up in the morning.(reply to this comment)