Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article

from jez Monday, September 13, 2004 - 06:51 (Agree/Disagree?) Too true all of you! I've experienced all the emotions laid out here. Another one I noticed in myself and other exers that usually comes after the reclusive state, is an embracement of the freedom to tell people to 'eff off' , or just generally be as much of a pain as possible and say the opposite of what you're expected to even if you don't believe it(sort of devil's advocate). IMO this is just a release of the pressure we were put under to control any negative outbursts and appear 'HAPPY' while in TF. It doesn't make you a nasty person and eventually the pendulum swings back towards the middle to help make you a more balanced individual. Anyway no one trusts anyone who is always 'HAPPY' ,if they are it's usually fake as we know too well and they're hiding something rather substantial. Good luck with finding the real you and be happy with whoever you turn out to be! (reply to this comment)

From late bloomer Monday, September 13, 2004, 11:49 (Agree/Disagree?) I have been out a long time. Altho I have always found it easy to let myself appear sad (got in trouble in The Family because I was bad at hiding how unhappy I was) it is only recently that I am starting to not bother to always hide when I am annoyed with annoying things or people and to not feel horribly guilty about it for too long. I am not totally used to it yet but it makes me feel like I am overcoming the ingrained habit to "yield" and be "meek" and I think that is an important thing for living in the world and not being walked all over. Of course in The Family I was walked all over every minute of every day and expected to take it "willingly," they just didn't call it being walked all over (like they didn't call "sharing" with a "loving" Uncle abuse).(reply to this comment)

from passion Friday, September 10, 2004 - 07:38 (Agree/Disagree?) What about friendships and meeting new people? I have a very difficult time approaching people. And then when I do meet someone new or hang out with my friends I have a hard time relating to them as I somehow feel on the outside looking in. I know it is not my friends fault, as they are great and include me in everything. It's me, and I don't understand why I feel this way. I don't seem to be able to fully enjoy being with others. I seem to always want to be on my own. But at the same time I don't want to be alone. Does that make any sense? I must be really screwed up. (reply to this comment)

From Baxter Friday, September 10, 2004, 10:45 (Agree/Disagree?) This, too, is normal (at least, to me). When I left, spent the first three years in progressive stages of voluntary seclusion. I had a job for about six months, during which I made no friends, and on weekends I would wander around town by myself, spend enormous amounts of money on Arcade games, go to the cinema by myself, and talk to next to no one accept my aunt, who I would see at dinner. When I went into the Army it was worse: I shrugged off nearly every attempt almost anyone made to befriend me, which did not make me popular. When I went on leave, it was the same deal all over again, I would spend entire periods of up to a month in complete seclusion, even avoiding the few friends or aqcuaintances I did have. I had no idea why I felt compelled to behave this way, and to be honest I hated the loneliness. Even when I began to enjoy myself and make friends I was always paranoid about what they really thought about me, or if they were just being nice. Sometimes it felt almost worse than the seclusion. Thinking about it, it makes sense that we would seek seclusion; our minds desire peace, and this is something we were denied. We had almost never constructed a free thought, for all was constricted in this imposed guilt mentality. We had so little space of our own that it felt as though even our own thoughts were not included as private. Even then, so much of what we thought was regulated sanitised propaganda. There is no way around it, and there is no one else that can get past this stage but you. Others can only stand by and offer symbolic support, but it is you who has to stand alone from now on. It's almost as if each of us is involuntarily compelled to recognise painful fact. I suppose that's what makes it so difficult for the elder generation to leave it behind. I think that, to a certain degree, you do not, perhaps cannot completely trust any one, and perhaps you even doubt yourself. It fucking hurts losing everything that you believed in, and there is no way to avoid the inherent pain. If you could walk away from this place, you would simply be walking in the other direction; there is no way around it. One day in the not so distant future you may suddenly find yourself, almost accidentally, letting go (and I mean really letting go; not just dropping your inhibitions- that's just the booze!) Suddenly you'll realise you didn't forget how to enjoy life. And you'll look around and you'll come to that incomparable realisation that makes life worth more than enduring: that, despite yourself, you actually have true friends. Friends who may not have promised to stick by you (words are only words), but who actually did, regardless of what they said. And you may find yourself thinking, 'they aint all bad!'.Hey, maybe I'm being presumptious, but I just keep kicking myself over how little I truly cared about and enjoyed life, before I knew just how miserable I could feel. (reply to this comment)

From Rain Child Saturday, July 23, 2005, 04:49 (Agree/Disagree?) Are you part of the Australian Baxter Family? I'm trying to find some people.(reply to this comment)

from Dr.4_Shure Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 23:34 (Agree/Disagree?) What you’ve gone through is absolutely relatable, I found myself going through that totally confused state, gees I thought I was having another break down, I found for myself to keep busy with something I love to do, go out and try all the things I never dreamed of doing, now I’ve actually found happiness in just being me. There seems to be no limits in my own opinion as to what you can now make of your life, hey I’ve never been freer! I’ve moved on am able to make decisions for myself , life has never been more beautiful, I’m sure you’ll get over this stage, it will take time, but when you do you’ll attain to all the things that you inside aspired to become and do. Good luck to you! (reply to this comment)

from doro Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 17:09 (Agree/Disagree?) In my opinion, leaving TF is like a long transition from an illusion into reality. I'm not sure if many of us know the real reason why we actually left. Were we sufficiently aware of the inherent problems and belief flaws to make an educated decision to leave? I wasn't at least. I left because I didn't like the rules, I wanted to work with things I was interested in and I wanted to have the freedom to do what I wanted to, when I wanted to. I knew that many things that happened in TF were not approved of by society as a whole, but that in itself was not sufficient to make me realise what was actually wrong with TF. At first I still believed in everything but somehow said that "it wasn't for me". But then as time went by, I saw that almost every doctrine that had be instilled in us somehow didn't stand up to even basic scrutiny. I remember that I was very eager to read the Deborah book, but I was still so much part of TF mindset that to me it sounded like a lot of lies. After a while, I couldn't differentiate between family doctrines and Christianity anymore. I then decided that there was no point in trying to differentiate between the two. I had more important things to attend to, but as time went by, I became more and more angry at having been told so many halftruths and lied to and taught so much nonsense that I really became bitter and angry. Almost everything that we were taught was untrue. Of course there are some qualities that are common in TF that are desirable such as openness etc. that are more uncommon in society at large, and I am happy that I am that way myself, but that in no way makes up for the other things. The worst thing is that I honestly believe that many of the FGA's know that TF is a fraud. There are so many indiscrepancies that it's actually funny. Here's a great question for anyone in TF. When the prophecy that Elvis and his wife were in heaven together and reconciling their differences came out, as an authentic prophecy printed in a GN, and then they find out that Elvis's wife isn't actually dead, and they come out with some excuse like "everyone makes mistakes" and ... "he must have been out of tune".. then one must ask.. if that prophecy was not correct, and no one knew so at the time, then HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT ANY PROPHECY IS CORRECT! For me that is total proof of the deceit that is rampant within TF's beliefs. Well. That's enough of my ranting for now. Try to reconcile your beliefs (or lack of them) and get on with life. As time goes by we learn to accept what happened and know that it actually made us stronger. (reply to this comment)

from Phoenixkidd Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 19:58 (Agree/Disagree?) This feeling is completely normal! First you start out with believing that you still believe in God and family members as "chosen People" then you realize everything you learned during your entire time in the family, Bible chapters, stories from David Berg, learning foreign languages, etc... was a complete waste of time!! You feel hurt and confused. at least I know I did. Then you take stock of your life and set goals for what you want to accomplish and just get busy. Anything slightly religious or sometimes subjective thought is rather ignored and commited to subjective thought. School and friends has been a tremendous help in this aspect. There is still the depression and feelings of wastefullness and anger when you realize your whole childhood and teenage years were completely robbed from you, but you move on. The sooner you get out of the deep depression and get busy with something the sooner you can attain what you want. Oh yeah and have a good time! friggin try everything out there if you can afford it, that's been the key with me.....EXTREME SYSTEMATIC ENGAGEMENT OF MATERIAL POSSESSIONS...LOL (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Saturday, September 04, 2004, 20:09 (Agree/Disagree?) totally off topic phoenixkidd... Hit F5, it'll refresh the chatroom(reply to this comment)

from Vicky Friday, September 03, 2004 - 09:44 (Agree/Disagree?) You are certainly not alone in this and each of us, in our own way, relates to what you are going through at this point in your life. The realisation that everything your life was built on was a falsehood is a very difficult one to face, and you will find that getting over it will not be simple, easy or straightforward. But as you confront more and more of the issues that are present in your particular case, I think that you will agree that the pain of acknowledging your own suffering is worth it because it does eventually lead to further healing and a growing peace within yourself. I have come to think of moving on with my life in a constructive way as far more a continuous inward spiral than anything else, by which I mean that I am aware of cycles within my thought process which repeat themselves from time to time, as if I have to return to the same points intermittently, each time delving deeper and clearing away more of the negative emotions and associations. I don’t any longer look at my integration into ‘real life’ as a linear path where I will pass certain obstacles and then go on without ever having to confront that issue again. Rather, I believe that every time I peel back another layer of my psychological makeup the same issues will present themselves. What happens with me is that every time I work through the given issue I feel more positive and it gradually lessens the impact of my past on my life as it is now, as well as my future. I do agree with Baxter that those supposedly ‘negative’ emotions are a necessary part of the healing process for most, if not all of us, although some people seem to feel differently about it. To each his own, I guess. But generally speaking, there is a period after the stage of denial has passed where anger has its rightful place, and in allowing yourself to feel the anger you will be better able to work through it, and gradually leave it behind. Porceleindoll also mentioned a very important part of the moving on process – discarding as much as possible of the belief system imposed upon you by TF, so that you are free to begin building your self-identity according to what you feel, without obligation to anyone other than yourself. This is a truly fascinating process, one that offers up so much possibility, so many ways in which you will learn about yourself and begin to understand what you genuinely want. Once you know what you want you will be able to go about getting it, thus finding a greater sense of purpose and meaning in your life. I wish you all the best. You will get through it. (reply to this comment)

from Baxter Friday, September 03, 2004 - 08:25 (Agree/Disagree?) It's a bitch, innit? Funnily enough, when I left, there was actually a part of me that thought I would just go see a bit of the world, and then come back to 'God's Will'. I realise now that when I left, that my actions seemed almost involuntary. I remember sitting on the plane, thinking that from here on out, I have crossed the point of no return. That moment became a recurrent and haunting memory the longer I was out. So much of who we are and/or were is defined by what they made us into. So many simple thought processes that became second nature by way of continuous indoctrination, suddenly have to face the spotlight of reason, and then all we are left with is a void where once resided our trust in human nature. I imagine that this is a necessary and natural part of growing up, or maybe I just tell myself that to alleviate the pain. In any case, is it always this painful? I spent so much of my early years outside wanting to go back, and yet knowing somehow that I could not, and that the longer I was out, the less chance I would ever return. fortunately, the longing, too, receded with time. I think there has to be that period of extreme anger and frustration. You have to get it out of you. For me, it manifested itself in voluntary seclusion and suicidal depression, followed by outbursts of explosive anger and violence, interjected with heavy substance abuse and acts of sheer insanity. Looking back, I feel sorry for the innocent people I must have hurt, and I honor and respect those true friends who stood by me during that time, but I think it was totally necessary, and I hate to think what I'd be like if I hadn't undergone that period. Don't be surprised if you suddenly find yourself suddenly experiencing a completely life-affirming phase afterwards. I'm not sure if you can ever completely eliminate the anger (and FUCK OFF anyone who starts with the inane 'get over it' bollocks- you'll get over it in your own time!) but I think it will definitely become easier to live with- and that isn't as depressing as it sounds. (reply to this comment)

from porceleindoll Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 18:13 (Agree/Disagree?) Yeah, a time of total depression and confusion is normal, for the most part. It began to hit me about 5 or 6 months after I left, and continued on for over a year, but at one point I thought I was going mentally crazy, it was rough, and I considered going into therapy. At that point I began talking about things with other exers and my siblings, I began re-evaluating my beliefs, I began to throw out all my past beliefs in an effort to find out who the real me was. It's taken a few years, and I still have bad days when I am mostly angry and then depressed about the things I can never regain because of my upbringing--time lived with my family, an education and career (though I'm working on it, I'm far behind my peers), establishing some sort of foundation in life. I feel I'm still drifting around and haven't yet settled. I don't feel I belong to any one country or nationality, and neither do I have a religious belief system. But I feel stronger than I did a few years ago, I've faced some of the worst and gotten through it, which gives me courage to face the rest of life. And I've learned that I'm no longer elite, special, or 'IT', just as those around me are no longer heathen, pagan, cursed by God and systemites. I am a normal person living life on this earth and trying to do the best I can at it, and I am special because I am the one and only me, not because of my god. I don't need the props of a religion to define who I am. If I could offer any advice it would be to talk about things with others, especially persons who have had the same or similar experiences as yours, to air out your questions, confusion, anger, hatred and rage. As time goes you'll be able to put it in perspective and re-define your beliefs and ideals. And refuse to condemn or blame yourself for negative feelings. They're part of the cycle and in order to heal you have to get them out. Regards! (reply to this comment)

From Little Storm Saturday, July 23, 2005, 05:59 (Agree/Disagree?) In one form or another everything I've been going through recently is in this post and its comments. Nice to know Im not a freak. I've been trying to figure out why its been so hard for me to let go. I had two epiphanys(Spell check?) recently, one I read something a family girl wrote where she said, 'I've been blogging alot more recently, but, I checked with the lord and he said it was ok' and for this first time I thought FREEAk. The second was when someone asked me what the bible was about and what do christians beleave and after giving them the entire speal, they asked me, ' so what do you beleave?' I was totally stumped I had no-idea. So I think somewhere some part of me is stumbling along firguring stuff out, but it seems every time I feel I've reached a nice place something comes along to upset it all again.(reply to this comment)