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Getting Through : Dealing
Insults | from nobody - Monday, March 29, 2004
accessed 1925 times Three insults that have been created by "MovingOn" 1) "Promoting Bergisms"
2) "Vaguely Family friendly"
3) "A Family collaborator" |
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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from venus_fly_trap
Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 20:41
 (Agree/Disagree?)
While on the note of raids, I remember these events in France. I lived in Marianne’s home “Green Fields” at the time. The response for those of us who were not in the line of fire was to prepare us for it.
I can remember sitting in a room with an adult and we were being drilled in role play on what to say if we did get raided.
Question:
“Have you ever been sexually abused?”
Answer:
“No. I have always lived a happy life with loving parents.”
Question:
“Have you ever been beaten?”
Answer:
“No.”
Etc etc. Anyone else remember this? I told my shepherdess that I was having a “trial” because I had been abused. She told me I needed to focus on the group and the good of all of us and that Jesus would reward me for being a “deceiver yet true.”
(reply to this comment)
| from Soccertease
Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 11:18
(Agree/Disagree?)
If nobody feeles insulted, is it really an insult?
(reply to this comment)
| | | |  From Elle
Wednesday, March 31, 2004, 16:20
(Agree/Disagree?)
I didn't get the impression the article was so much about the insults as the fact that this site has generated some unique expressions which few people outside would understand.
Neither "Bergisms" nor "Family collaborator" would mean anything to your ordinary non-exfamily systemite but here it's crystal clear. Any more expressions we could add to the list? Negative or positive.(reply to this comment) |
| | from Spat
Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 10:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
I have found I can get a lot of heat for my stance on the Family's right to exist as a cult/religion in this day and age and my support for their freedom of religion. Every time the subject arises some people think I still believe in the Family or support it, which anybody who has read my posts can truly say is a false conclusion. Regardless of my personal beliefs I’m a stout supporter of the individual’s right to live their faith and/or lack of as they see fit provided it is done within the boundaries of the law of the land. I believe that any intrusion on that indelible right will result in a new and bigger cult where beliefs are dictated and everything that I have fought for in ridding myself of the cult will be reinstated.
I have found that some people see my stance on that subject as a personal insult which is what I think Nobody’s post is about; what we in this site find insulting.
(reply to this comment)
| From Shackled
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 21:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
Spat, I respect your opinion highly. I don't see you as a "family collaborator". We've had numerous chats about this very topic as well. I agree that individuals rights and religious freedom aren't for us to infringe upon. But at the same time, if we do nothing then we'll never know. As long as we stay within the law and do what we can. Before I left I thought living in TF was the norm; plus always being told that TF homes were the best living environment. It wasn't till after leaving that I realised how much they took away from me and how much I was deprived of. I'm not going to go to some home and tell them what to do. But I will let my family know that I strongly disagree with them and believe they're wasting their lives. If no one says anything or puts some pressure then the situation won't change.
Concerning child abusers and pedophiles; that's another story, they should all be tortured, jailed, gangbanged and left with no mercy. Well, maybe depending on the severity of their crime. But lets face it, alot of those leaders ruined countless lives and have no shame. They started or carried out the "movements" that destroyed our childhoods. This is not about comparing to the rich and poor classes. It's about reality and our past in it.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From exister
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 12:35
(Agree/Disagree?)
I respect your opinion Spat. Expressing tolerance for the intolerant is a noble thing since your tolerance will never be reciprocated by them.
Though some of you may disagree, I too believe very strongly in the freedom of individuals to believe what they will so long as it does not victimize others. The reason I feel safe in allowing myself the occasionally fanatical rant is that I have complete confidence in the chekcs and balances that exist in our modern society. Most institutions in the US are based upon an adversarial paradigm that is designed to hopefully arrive at a happy medium. Hence the three branches of the federal government, prosecuting attorneys and defense attonreys, points and counter-points in the media, etc. I see vigorous anti-family rants as a strong ideological stance against the intolerance and barbarity of that cult. I am under no illusion that any law enforcement agency anywhere will take such an impassioned stance against the Family, but maybe if we rant long enough they will simply shut them down.
"What of the raids?" you might say. "Weren't they violent and fanatical?" Well, to those raised in an environment in which the only physical contact between people was creepy hugs and "loving fondling" the behavior of law enforcement may seem brusque, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't that bad. Besides, if the Family didn't want the fuzz raiding their compounds they shouldn't have immersed their children in a destructive oversexualized environment. In any case, for some of the children exposed to those raids the event represented a fleeting glimmer of hope that their insufferable captivity may finally be coming to an end.
So maybe if and when the shit finally hits the fan all of you who are Family friendly can tell The Man to go easy on the Fam, but chances are the Family will already have a whole gaggle of academics and sycophants to plead their case. Why don't you come on board and try for a civilization with the rest of us instead?(reply to this comment) |
| | From Why I hate the Police
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 16:13
(Agree/Disagree?)
I’ll never forget hearing sounds of voices down stairs being in a pure English environment. There were nine people sleeping in that room, which was no bigger than 4m by 5m three triple bunch beds were crammed together. There was one adult and seven children and me. The adult in the room grabbed some clothing. Next the unlocked door was kicked in. A black army boot when through the bottom half of the door and then the door was smashed in. The seven girls were in shock and said nothing until the adult was forcibly dragged out of the room and handcuffed and thrown to the floor.
At this stage the girls crawled onto the bottom of the bunch bed and started to cry in hysterics, thinking that they would be killed. All of the Special Forces police were armed with semi automatic machine guns. With the events of Waco fresh in everyone minds they were taking no chances. The boy whom was only a few years older then me, came back grabbed my arm and dragged me out threw me on the floor and handcuffed me. Under French law it’s illegal to handcuff anyone who is considered a minor.
The cruelty of the police was something that I can only reference to the German Gestapo in WWII. Social workers were rushing around making sure that there were no babies in the room. Any babies found were promptly carried out of the home with no explanation given. The adult mothers went into hysterics the police reacted by pointing there guns at them and shouting in French.
I and the adults of the home were then dragged outside and made to sit on the gravel or grass. The only other child was a sixteen year ago boy who was handcuffed and sitting on the grass, he was the only one of us which spoke French. I’m not sure what happened to the children at this stage as the Police started their search through the house and garden. There was a grave in the garden in which our deceased hamsters had been buried that was dug up.
At this point the Police started to get a little edgy. They had been told that they would be rescuing children who were kept in cages, eat off the floor and sold into the sex industry. After thoroughly searching the home no weapons had been found. The police then unhand cuffed me and quickly made me sit with the children. We were then allowed to get dressed and taken to a clinic were the adults would be questioned and the children examined by a doctor.
None of us were questioned or asked anything by the police. Most of the arresting Police couldn’t of been much older than 18, they looked embarrassed and nervous. One by one we lead into the examining room. Three people were in this room one doctor a social worker and another man. We were being told that we had to be completed physically examined. This was the first time that I had ever been naked in front of a male in my adolescent years. After half an hour of me refusing the doctor said it would write that there was a possibility of sexual abuse if I didn’t do it. I remember crying, it was such an emotional horrible experience. I had buries on my arms from when the police officer had thrown he on the floor and red marks on my wrists from the handcuffs. As it happened none of the children in the home were sexually active. When to police heard this they seemed happy to be rid of us as quickly as possible.
The adults of the home seemed to be enjoying the interrogations, the apocalyptic beliefs of the end of the world seemed to be coming to pass.
We were then taken to a social centre for children. The younger children started to cry for their parents. The social workers allowed us to stay with the under three year old. I think the baby was returned to the mother at the home. The younger children were crying for there parents. I remember two of the small children crying in bed for the ‘bad men to stop hurting their mummy’.
One of the boys about who was about 4 years old became ill the doctor whom was sent to see him. He was given a pill, which the nurse introduced anally; the poor boy was very upset and hadn’t been spoken to in English while any of this was happening.
Some social workers came to speak to us the following day. But this time we were extremely angry and refused to speak to them. The only person whom we wanted to talk to was a lawyer. A few of the older children thought it would be a good idea to have a hunger strike, this was the producer that were had been told to take if any such situation would arise. Most of the children who were a little bit older seemed to be enjoying life in the centre. The cooking was a lot better than the blue cheese and rolls that we had been eating for the last year.
The lawyer came and told us that we would have a court hearing in a few days to a few weeks. On the day of the hearing we were brought before a judge who asked us a few questions on current events and world history. None of us knew the answers to the questions. The lawyer went into rage stating in French that we were nervous and it wasn’t fair to question us. Apparently due to our good behaviour we were happy and missed our parents greatly. This was translated to us although and the judge then said we could go home to our parents. The tears for joy of our parents seem to be hypocritical considering they had never seemed to care for us before.
As soon as we got home once again we were in charge of the cooking, cleaning and management of the home. The children were then divided into groups which we had to take care of. Another task we now had was to compile what was supposed to be the years ‘home schooling notes’. The home was now financed from a WS unit, and we were told not to bother with trying to convert people to the cause for a while.
The sixteen year boy had gone to live with his parents whom were not directly involved with TF anymore. When he returned to the home he had a radio and some money that his parents had given him. Somehow a few bottles of alcohol managed to be purchased. During one of the inspections from the social worker he had managed to get extremely drunk, with the exception of the time he had done this before we had never seen anyone this drunk. Me and two of my friends were in the artic trying to give him coffee. At this point he started to turn blue I went and got an adult. After the alcohol had worn off all us were given a three hour lecture of how were had endangered TF and how were selfish to have endangered our home.
Throughout this time two other cult groups got in contact with or home one was the s and the other the A. Both cults exchanged personal information aimed to discredit anyone whom had given the police any information on TF.
A psychiatrist came to home and spoke to older children of the home. He showed us some pictures of cartoon pigs engaged in sexual activities and asked us what they were doing. He then showed us what looked like Vaseline and asked us what it was. I was so disgusted that I either refused to speak to him or said the pigs were playing.
On the day of the court case I was brought into the judges cambers with my parents and FT lawyer. The only question that I was asked was if we had been treated well while in the centre, when I answered yes the lawyer went on ranting how it was a trick question and that I really wanted to be with my parents. I then for the first time since all of this had happened started to cry. The lawyer then ranted on about something which wasn’t translated.
The court proceeding went on; I remember finding it strange that prosecution lawyer was asleep throughout most of the case. The verdict of the case was that we could be with our parents.
After the court case was over, we left France and move to the French Swiss broader. TF sent down some camera crew who asked a few question and left the same day. Two of the adults that were on this crew were known to have committed child abuse. One of which was excommunicated for having sex with teenage girls in Paris in 1993.
Ironically less than a year later my parent left me in an F home on my own for over a year, so much for the tears of joy they had when we were sent home from the centre, as far as abuse went no one had bothered to ask or look into how much education we were having or how much physical work we had to do. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Why I hate the Police
Wednesday, March 31, 2004, 16:31
(Agree/Disagree?)
M. I got in huge trouble for that incident some and had numerous lectures from Joseph, Comfort and Francesco (the one who was excommunicated). I think my point of that was that it happened with a social worker in the house who didn’t notice. The whole event was something that impacted me greatly. See that kind of cruelty of people in power, who would physical hurt me when I was a minor, only fifteen and treat it as they were playing a video game, is something I won’t forget.
The children in the other home were not subject to such a violet scene and we much more corporative, they were quite happy to stay for a couple of months. Ironically TFer whom were French received a lot more scrutiny and where forced to educate there children at French standards.
I think what I’m trying to say is that sexual abuse did happen to people in TF but by only looking for that other aspects are avoided or overlooked. For example hitting children in France is against the law although it was quite common place in that home.
It was also assumed that we held the same beliefs as our parents. Maybe some people did at that time, but not all of us. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From exister
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 16:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
"The adults of the home seemed to be enjoying the interrogations, the apocalyptic beliefs of the end of the world seemed to be coming to pass."
The paranoid fantasies of the derranged become self fulfilling prophecies. Remember, just because you are insane does not mean you are not Jesus Christ and the CIA is not after you.
"The tears for joy of our parents seem to be hypocritical considering they had never seemed to care for us before."
And damn them for putting you in this situation!
(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | From loch
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 12:59
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm sorry, this may be one sided, because I'm speaking of ONE case here, but it's the only one that I experienced personaly.
There are specific kids that I know for a fact, were never sexualy abused, UNTILL, someone decided that the home they were in needed to be checked out. Once the mexican government got their hands on these kids, they had probes stuck up their rectum, and painful exams done, WITH an american embassy rep.pressent, suposedly for their protection. Now those little kids have a horible memory stuck in their heads to deal with, for the rest of their life.
The whole thing was pointless, and painful for all involved. That's why I just can't feel right about wanting to help something like that happen again.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | From Banshee
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 13:33
(Agree/Disagree?)
I definitely agree with you that there was trauma experienced by children involved in several of the raids over the years, some of it severe. I also know people who chalked it up to another fun adventure and a break from the tedium of their lives. Certainly because there were some kids who were not hurt by the experience--or some who even welcomed it—it should not be cause to feel that it is okay for them to be repeated, nor does it minimize the trauma of those who were hurt by the raids.
But I don’t think that something like that is being planned. I may be wrong in assuming this, but as far as I can recall, there has never been discussion about pursuing any type of action that would include or replicate “raids” on the children of TF. From what I gather, Exister’s only point has been that IF that should happen—simply because one of the arguments against action against TF has been qualms about raids happening again—it’s not the end of the world or the worst thing that could happen. I know he will correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember reading that he was in support of massive “raids” against TF and removing all of the children from their parents. (reply to this comment) |
| | From exister
Tuesday, March 30, 2004, 15:19
(Agree/Disagree?)
Very perceptive Banshee, I was merely anticipating an argument I have heard several times.
Ideally the Family will just disband and turn over its meager assets to a fund for the victims' ongoing treatment and compensation. On the other hand if these backward savages refuse to capitulate then eventual harrassment by the authorities may be the fate that they bring upon themselves. I don't see any need for it, but as long as they continue to cling to their practices it remains a possibility.(reply to this comment) |
| | from Benz
Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 02:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
and your point is??
(reply to this comment)
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