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from Was Jesus a black/jewish/irish woman? Monday, August 23, 2004 - 07:33 (Agree/Disagree?) PROOF THAT JESUS WAS... ...Jewish: 1. He went into his father's business. 2. He lived at home until the age of 33. 3. He was sure his mother was a virgin, and his mother was sure he was God. ...Irish: 1. He never got married. 2. He never held a steady job. 3. His last request was a drink. ...Puerto Rican: 1. His first name was Jesus. 2. He was always in trouble with the law. 3. His mother did not know who his father was. ...Italian: 1. He talked with his hands. 2. He had wine with every meal. 3. He used olive oil. ...Black: 1. He called everybody brother. 2. He liked Gospel. 3. He couldn't get a fair trial. ...Californian: 1. He never cut his hair. 2. He walked around barefoot all the time. 3. He started a new religion. But the most compelling evidence of all - proof that Jesus was a WOMAN: 1. He had to feed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food. 2 . He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just didn't get it. 3. Even when he was dead, He had to get up because there was more work for him to do. (reply to this comment)

from Sonderval Monday, January 12, 2004 - 11:19 (Agree/Disagree?) LOL, nice one :D Oh, and for all those who haven't seen 'The Crow' (there's probably someone somewhere) Jesus Christ walks into a motel, hands the checking clerk three nails and says . . . . . . . . . Can you put me up for the night Not as good as the jesus/smartie joke but that's a visual thing, ahh well. PS, how on earth did this joke spawn the discussion in this thread, I've read it over and simply can't understand it, utter madness. (reply to this comment)

from sassy Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 12:42 (Agree/Disagree?) ROTFLMFAO!!!! GOOD JOKE! Just what i need. (reply to this comment)

from Rae Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 04:41 (Agree/Disagree?) LOL LMAO (reply to this comment)

from CherishL (A.K.A. Cherish Ety) Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 16:07 (Agree/Disagree?) Just one question: Why are so many second generation ex's so caught up with the bible, jesus, & god? How about looking for our own personal truth's and faith? I guess I value the importance of humans finding their own belief structure as oppossed to relying on someone else's belief structure. I personally believe in thinking for myself and comming to my own conclusions, rather than validating the dogma's which were deeply ingrained (by un-educated, white trash: berg and zerby, to name a few culprits) in our heads as children and teens! But, as I stated, those are my own beliefs, therefore I do not expect everyone else to adhere to them. just a thought........ la pecosa (reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Friday, June 20, 2003, 13:01 (Agree/Disagree?) One of the dangers of cults like TF is that there is alot of good in what they teach and in the way they live. The thing is, it gets difficult for people, esp. if you were born into it, to separate the good from the things that are really very detrimental to a person. While many people joined trying to live a good missionary lifestyle, they got sucked into all the bad things about TF. Much of what was instilled in us as children was actually very positive. I, for one, feel like my childhood experiences no matter how awful and embarassing on one hand (like postering and taping DTD) , on the other hand, it gave me a sense of wanting a purpose to my life and wanting to actually make a difference in the world. Not in a "christian" sort of way, but just to make sure that my life is put to a good purpose. I guess the challenge for us is to figure out what experiences we can learn from and which are the ones that have hurt us, then we can work on truly moving on. BTW, hasn't this thread gotten awful serious for an article on a joke???? :)!!!!! (reply to this comment)

From none Friday, June 20, 2003, 14:47 (Agree/Disagree?) In a place like TF, not only is it difficult for people to separate out the things that are detrimental to a person, it is not welcomed in a system like theirs. You can't really do it. My experience it TF is that when something was hard to accept, you had to just "wrap it in a budle of Faith" and proceed to do what they said anyway. They did not promote analytical thinking that separates things out. And when they had someone they decided was a prophet, who were you to choose to ignore parts of his/her "revelations" on how you were to live your life?(reply to this comment)

From frmrjoyish Friday, June 20, 2003, 18:21 (Agree/Disagree?) Exactly! That's just one of the negatives of a cult like TF! It's not until one gets out that they can begin learning to think for themselves. My point was that TF wraps their BS up in a nice gift wrapped pretty little package that when your in its hard to separate good from bad. Kinda like antifreeze, tastes good, but it'll kill ya! (reply to this comment)

From Hanna_Black Friday, June 20, 2003, 14:59 (Agree/Disagree?) I agree, none! That was my problem in the family too, that when you had a doubt, you were not allowed to voice it, not even think about it. When so many questions are left unanswered, it leaves people dissatisfied and wanting to find the answers elswhere. How nice it would have been, if when we had a question, instead of getting a "just take it by faith", someone would have actually answered the darned question. I don't remember any of the maria GNs having her own, personal opinion. It was all prophecy, and you had better not doubt or question it! If questions from young people would have been answered by her PERSONALLY, in her OWN words,in her OWN opinion, people like me might have read those things. It was all too vague for me. I couldn't ask a yes-or-no question and get a straightforward answer, and that made me lose faith in our "spiritual leaders". But I guess we all know that, we have all been there! I must say though, that I admire people like Vicky, who voice their opinions without fear of what others might think. ...and now I must get back to my system movies and my mammon! Take care, y'all! (reply to this comment)

From Hanna_Black Friday, June 20, 2003, 15:01 (Agree/Disagree?) WHOOPS, I didn't mean Vicky, I meant CC. (That is, if her article "my story" wasn't a spoof(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Friday, June 20, 2003, 09:54 (Agree/Disagree?) I can only speak for myself: I believe because I believe. It's part of me and something that I really don't feel the need to question. I can totally understand that people want to think for themselves and chuck all the crap that was forced down their throats, but I'm not going to disregard what I feel to be true to me just for the sake of asserting my independence or whatever. I am sure that yes, my upbringing has a lot to do with my views on many subjects, but what the hell - everyone on this planet is affected by environment, nurture or lack of it, childhood experiences whether good or bad, etc and I honestly don't believe that anyone in the world can manage to totally free themselves from all that and think for themselves 100 percent - We are all shaped by life and our reactions to it. You have to just be true to what feels right for you, don't you? I am a Gemini which means that I have hugely conflicting opinions on almost every subject you could imagine; Furthermore it's in my character to be constantly changing and evolving to the point where I am never certain what I will feel about anything at any given time. This makes it difficult to consolidate my belief system and figure myself out to a degree that would be satisfying to a chronic self-analyst like myself, but I'm learning to just go with it and take myself at face value. BTW, I am not exclusively Christian - That's the way I usually relate to things because it just comes naturally to me after being raised the way we were, but really I'm a bit of a New-Ager, I guess. At times when I try to contemplate the meaning of life and all that shit I'm as lost as the next person and do find it hard to come to any conclusion as to what is the "truth". I'm very interested in ancient Paganism, Astrology and other aspects of Occultism and I really don't consider that to be incompatible with the Christian faith. I ultimately believe that all religions are one and the same, different in their dogma and restrictions but still when it boils down to it each one came about as a result of the human mind struggling to make sense of life. I would have to say that I very much doubt that I will ever come to the conclusion that there is no Higher Power, but then again who knows? I will leave myself open to whatever path my life takes and I'm not going to put myself in a box of any kind. I have no desire to change what works for me simply because somebody else thinks it's outdated or superstitious, uncool or unsophisticated - What I believe will be determined by how it makes ME feel and whether or not I end up a Christian, Buddhist or Atheist really shouldn't matter to anyone else but me. (reply to this comment)

From neezy Friday, June 20, 2003, 22:00 (Agree/Disagree?) I was brought up to believe in magical one-eyed pink elephants (the GN's came with free sheets of acid back then) & ever since then, I find it easier to continue to believe that these chubby pink cyclopses actually exist. I just find it easier to not have to let go of my pink elephants, they're the only thing I know. I remember talking to a freind about the pink elephants, he reckoned I should be able to actually SEE them or HEAR them or have some other way of proving that they exist. But I just laughed at him & said, "prove to me that they dont't exist". He couldn't obviously, which only made me believe in the pink elephants more. I mean, my mommy & daddy told me that the pink elephants exist, so it would be insane to try & consider otherwise. & frankly it would be to much work. I consider myself on open-minded person, I know without a doubt that I can't possibly be wrong about the pink elephants, but I'm open-minded remember, if someone comes along & proves to me that the elephants are actually blue, I'll consider it..(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Saturday, June 21, 2003, 05:18 (Agree/Disagree?) Thanks for flattering me by bothering to comment on my comment. I do not feel that this is a choice I've made simply because it's the easy way out and I can't be bothered to think for myself - I simply don't agree with the notion that one must automatically throw everything out. If you conclude that you can know me from one comment and presume to tell me that I'm not dealing with things properly then I'm sorry to say I think you think about things in very simplistic terms. Everybody is different and this is me! If you are the kind of person who is able to decide once and for all about things like Life and the meaning of it, God's existence or non-existence, Spirituality and Faith, well then all power to you! I'm just not like that. I have to be much more fluid about things because that's what I am like. Perhaps if you knew me you'd be able to judge more accurately instead of being so threatened by someone still believing in something that obviously didn't work for you. You'll also notice that I didn't say "I know without a shadow of a doubt that God exists" - No one can know that for sure because as you said it can't be proven - I only said that I am fairly sure that I will always have that sense of belonging to something greater than myself, some sort of Plan or Meaning to life. Why should it matter to you that I happen to believe in a Higher Power? Contrary to what you seem to have conluded about me I am not a blind follower of anything and everything I was brought up with; I do question things . I am often angry that there is so much horror in the world. I have an extremely difficult time reconciling that with the idea of a Loving Creator. But still, when it comes down to it, I do believe. Finally let me say that it's very easy on this site to disparage those that still have faith - It's not hard to point the finger when you're in the majority. I speak up about my faith because I'm proud to be my own person, I don't feel the need to pander to the crowd and I certainly won't be made to feel as if I'm doing something wrong by staying true to myself. (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Saturday, June 21, 2003, 09:16 (Agree/Disagree?) I'd like to make it clear that I have NO PROBLEM with people who don't believe in God - For all I care you could worship a toad and I'd like you just the same, if you're the kinda person I can respect. I am NOT on this site to "witness" or try to convert people but to find old friends and make new ones (Plus I just like to talk!) I answered a question because it was asked and I thought it might help to have something from a different perspective - Otherwise where's the debate? I strive to be as non-judgemental as possible when it comes to a person's free will and choice and to respect that other people are not going to be just like me, and in return I would appreciate the same from those of you who have a conflicting opinion to mine. I'm not here to fight; It's not worth my time and I won't change your mind anyway, so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on these issues.(reply to this comment)

From neezy Saturday, June 21, 2003, 21:47 (Agree/Disagree?) Yes I am one of 'those people' who tend to assume things about people, saves me a lot of time. Maybe I'm wrong & you have actually considered the possibility that the whole loving-creator/higher-power was a tailor made fairy tale. Personaly I think if you spend your lifetime desperately searching for something(sounds like our parents teen years), then you can convince yourself you've find it. Or something close to it but with certain very strange differences you have absolutely no control over. [assumption#2] Anyways, I'm telling you now, I care about it even less than you. Whatever does it for you.. (reply to this comment)

From Vicky Sunday, June 22, 2003, 05:43 (Agree/Disagree?) Well, let's call a truce then ;-)(reply to this comment)

From neezy Monday, June 23, 2003, 02:03 (Agree/Disagree?) ok..(reply to this comment)

From Vicky Monday, June 23, 2003, 09:48 (Agree/Disagree?) Neezy, having had a couple of days to ponder the points you made in your comment I am now going to admit that yes, there probably is some truth to what you said. I, unlike many of you, had a very secure, happy childhood. Except for a few unfair spankings I don't feel I was badly treated at all. I grew up in my home country until the age of 17, saw my grandparents a few times a year including spending Christmas with them every year, and generally had at least some semblence of a "normal" childhood. My grandparents have only lived in two houses since I can remember and they were yards apart in a small town. So I always had that grounding to come back to. Even now when I visit my grandmother I feel happy, safe and like I've come home - Her house is the one thing that's stayed the same throughout most of my life. I know that this sense of belonging is something many ex- fam kids feel they missed out on and I am grateful that I am lucky enough to have it. I'm not trying to go on and on about how great I had it, just want to highlight the ways in which I believe my experience of integrating into the "outside world" may be different than yours. I imagine that most young people who leave TF can't wait to git rid of that whole episode in their lives and begin to build a happy life for themselves away from the sadness and hurt they have felt. To them the world is a place that stands for freedom, opportunity and the hope of fulfilling long-held desires or ambitions. It stands for that to me too - I am glad that I can work towards anything that I want to do whether someone else thinks it's right or not. I'm excited about the endless possibilites and the fact that I am the master of my destiny. But I also find being out here quite scary. Especially as a parent one sees so many things that are too terrible for words. I am not trying to be melodramatic so bear with me, but I tend to feel the weights of the world very heavily. I can barely manage to read the papers every day without becoming so upset that all I can do is cry. I make myself read them anyway because I want to know what's going on, and because I know I can't shy away from facing difficult things. I am 27 years old, a mother of two children, feisty and strong-willed, but another side of me is very much a child lost in an adult world. The point I'm trying to make is that whereas a lot of you feel that the world is a refuge from the terrible things you have had to endure, for me the opposite is true - I am leaving my safe and happy childhood behind in order to stand on my own two feet in a world that can be very cruel. So, yes, I do think that my belief in God is in some ways a "security blanket". It sure does comfort me. But that in itself is illogical since it would make more sense that if you believe that God created this life, you would have to blame him for the mess that it is in, thus becoming even more angry. So I don't know why it helps me, it just does. I can listen to songs like "Oh Happy Day" which would probably have some or even most of you running for cover to escape visions of days gone by, and it really cheers me up. I don't have a flood of negative emotions that come back to me when I listen to songs that were "Inspiration" favourites in TF, such as old hymns or whatever - It makes me happy and gives me a bit of a lift. That does NOT mean that I liked everything about TF - God knows I went through the same teen training regimes as the rest of you... - There is a LOT of crap that I don't agree with at all. I know I will never rejoin. I watched a program yesterday about a famous performer who has been in the business over here for over 50 years. He was looking back on his life and talking about his faith. He is a devout Catholic and has been celibate for the past 18 years since the death of the (male) love of his life. He has an altar at his house and all that stuff. Now, Catholicism is definitely not my idea of an inspiring religion. I find it to be opressive, legalistic and way OTT with the whole guilt trip. But it had clearly worked for him. He had no regrets about his life, he was happy and grateful for all he had achieved and felt that he had been blessed beyond measure. If his faith gives him that sense of joy and happiness then is it really such a bad thing? I know that many people feel that religion is the weak man's crutch and perhaps that's true. Maybe I'm the type of person who needs something to lean on. But if it means I can get through life feeling happy and at peace then it's good enough for me. Like I said, I have two daughters who mean more to me than life itself. I have brought them up to believe in God because I never want them to have to feel alone in this world. They will choose when they're older, of course, whether they'll believe what I told them or not. I feel I've done right by them in introducing the idea of a Loving Being/Force/Power who will care for them no matter what, but it remains to be seen whether they will agree with me. I can only do what I feel is best. I know that this sounds terribly mushy and sentimental and for that I do apologise, if it's not to your liking. Please also excuse the length of this comment! - Now you know that it's dangerous trying to discuss anything "deep" with me... :-) (reply to this comment)

From uninspired Monday, July 07, 2003, 13:13 (Agree/Disagree?) My favorite song, "Oh Crappy Day."(reply to this comment)

From neezy Monday, June 23, 2003, 02:00 (Agree/Disagree?) (reply to this comment)

From Bootylicious Saturday, January 04, 2003, 17:24 (Agree/Disagree?) Whoa, chill, sinner-girl!(well, you call yourself pecosa) I am not "caught up with the bible, Jesus and God!" IT IS JUST A FUCKING JOKE!!!!!!! I thought it was funny, I posted it. It has nothing to do with my beliefs or what I think of christians or Jesus. It is just a joke! People thought I was a female chauvinist cuz I told them JOKES (again, just a joke) which were slightly male bashing! Geez, don't take it so damn seriously. Thought it would make people smirk. I am sure when people tell blonde jokes it is not cuz they are caught up with blondes. It just sounds funny--that is all! (reply to this comment)

From JJT Thursday, June 19, 2003, 21:51 (Agree/Disagree?) here here!!(reply to this comment)

From Bootylicious Sunday, January 05, 2003, 04:37 (Agree/Disagree?) LOL!! got mixed up on the freckled part. It's been so long...forgot my castellano. Lo siento, pecosa. (reply to this comment)

From SP 101 Saturday, January 04, 2003, 18:24 (Agree/Disagree?) pecadora = sinner (female) pecaminosa = sinful (female) pecosa = freckled/freckly (female)(reply to this comment)

From Jerseygirl Saturday, January 04, 2003, 18:51 (Agree/Disagree?) I'm sorry but that is damn funny! Kudos to you, dear translator. (reply to this comment)

from Linda Atheista Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 01:20 (Agree/Disagree?) My favorite Jesus joke is Jesus. (reply to this comment)

From dan/thepersoniamnow Thursday, January 02, 2003, 05:11 (Agree/Disagree?) Hahaha, thats a good one!(reply to this comment)

from thepersoniamnow/dan Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 14:22 (Agree/Disagree?) It always makes me laugh to picture you laughing while telling this joke sweetie. (reply to this comment)