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Reader's comments on this article Add a new comment on this article |  from Nina
Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 20:36
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I don't think he's been running or hiding. I don't know who he was before he came to the city where he is now, but he's been there for over 7 years. My parents invited him to the city when they were still in the fam. He's been there ever since. He got married to a local girl and they have two kids now.
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| | | | from Nina
Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 20:23
(Agree/Disagree?)
Do you mean Francis?
Ya I know him. I am currently about 4 bus stops from his house.
What do you need him for?
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| | | | from Mydestinyismine
Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 01:58
(Agree/Disagree?)
I've never met him but if he's the father of David that passed away few years back then I believe he's this guy. He does something in Africa and comes to Japan every year for clowning trips to raise cash. From what people have told me, he's arrogrant, pain in the ass and is always flirting with teenage girls.
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| from EyesWideShut
Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:41
(Agree/Disagree?)
Basically, it's ok to be evil as long as you give no appearance of it.
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| | | | from neez
Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 05:39
(Agree/Disagree?)
Damn that guys quick.. That site really is a bit of a rogues gallery of retired/retiring pedos in hiding.
& Tricky, in a fit of boredom I saved 2 pics of his ghostly freakish mug. I was going to delete it soon, so grab it if u want. http://movingon.org/images/uploads/cult_styles.jpg
Gee I wonder if I could sell this on eBay now..
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| from Benz
Friday, January 16, 2004 - 21:05
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I'd say FCF probably got a "prophecy" telling them to hide poor persecuted Victor-Pedo-Landivar in a Catacomb somewhere and protect their little soon-to-be-dead-sorry-Peruvian sheep from the Vandari wolves.
- Or maybe the child molesting faggot shat his pants and begged to have his photo removed.- I'd like to fancy a bit of both.
Another link on the site with a noteworthy individual is:
http://www.familycare.org/network/p23.htm,
Hilary Roys,
She was one of the "shepherds" running the "TC" in Bangkok, when the victor programs were in full swing. She was right behind the implementation of all sorts of cruel, strange and unusual punishments ranging from mass boarding’s of 14 - 18 year olds, not to mention those younger, mass silence restrictions, isolations, you name it she's had it done. – It was her along with Australian Jeremy, Tiago, Dawn, Cephas, Joan and others who should be brought to account for a lot, and I certainly hope they will be one of these days. The problem is still exactly how.
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|  From cheeks
Monday, January 19, 2004, 11:01
(Agree/Disagree?)
I feel very strongly about this issue. Just because someone did not bother us or was nice to us does not mean for one minute they are not guilty of abuse. The bottom line, if you were an adult and you saw what they were doing and you did nothing you are just as guilty. An example I was in the Jumbo for nine months, and I don't think Tiago gave me one demerit in that time. Does that mean he wasn't an abuser? Where was he when I was on silence restriction for three months or when I was on a food ration. When I suffered through hours of calisthenics and so on. In answer of how to go about it this is my idea we need to single them out. To go after the Family as a whole is simply pointless. As well as possibly damaging to the children who are still in. Make a list of the top twenty and start at the top. One court case at a time. Here in the states they will prosecute for free. The only thing we would need to do is show up. What we need to determine is because most of our abuse happened overseas and most of them are not american where do we need to file charges and what are the laws for those particular countries. I personally do not want money and would not support any endeavor that does. But as to the rest I am open.
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| | From oddapodda
Saturday, January 17, 2004, 11:18
 (Agree/Disagree?)
I was in the TC in Thailand and I must say that Hilary Roys aka Sarah Ireland was not directly involved in any cruel or unreasonable punishments as I remember. Others mentioned above were but she was not as far as I can recall. I don't remember one single incident where she was openly involved in any of that or had anything to do with the victor programme. Australian Jeremy was involved, Cephas was the CRO and he definately was involved, Dawn was a witch but I don't remember her being much at the TC.. maybe she was after I left.
Anyway.. I think we should lay off on Sarah I because I remember her to be very nice and not as people are trying to portray here. BTW, I was in the victor programmes in the TC, both the New Models and the Military Academy Programme (MAP) so I know what I'm talking about.
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| | From Benz
Sunday, January 18, 2004, 20:00
(Agree/Disagree?)
I respect your right to your own perspective and point of view regarding Sarah Ireland, and for that matter the rest of those mentioned or involved. I like to remember she has a very large and extended family, and that her kids have many friends, as is the case with many other of those in “Family Leadership” including other of those we have each mentioned. Various people’s relatives or friends may disagree with my comments about her, I don’t know, but I am merely speaking from my own experience and perspective.
When I was there she was not only one of those ran the T.C. but someone who had a very large say-so with regards to the treatment of SG’s, teens, & Jetts. If I’m not mistaken, Tiago actually answered to her. It was her that read the DTR letters and who along with others, planned the MAPS, Victor programs. Don’t tell me she didn’t “sign off” on some if not many of the boarding’s, silence restrictions, “Expose” sessions, and other punishment’s etc. Further, to my knowledge she had complete knowledge of the situation involving Victor Landivar and various underage girls. – Did she inform the authorities?? – You tell me. Or are you going to excuse her for that too?
Talk about harsh punishment’s which, as I recall involve many of those “shepherds” mentioned, if you were a MAP you may remember an incident involving a small pond fish which lived in a small glass bowl on a desk in the teen hall. The fish was allegedly (I wasn’t actually there when this happened) TAUNTED (bad things and insults were apparently said to the fish and faces pulled at it) by about 8 teen boys after it ate a guppy (yes, well the strange things teen boys may do). One of the teen boys is reported to have actually lifted the fish up by it’s tail, as if to say, “I could eat you for dinner” (what a BIG MEANIE!!!- courtesy of MJ).
The fish suffered no noticeable injury, but the emotional suffering to the fish was enough that shepherds at the TC were worried about a possible multi million dollar law suit by the local pond owner (the legitimate owner of the fish). The fish would apparently never be fit for human consumption and would live the rest of its life in dread and re-occurring nightmares.
The shepherds at the T.C. flew into action. A full investigation ensued, witnesses interviewed and an urgent meeting held. All Jetts and Teens, including a number of SGA & FGA spectators sat waiting in the teen meeting hall when Tiago, Australian Jeremy, Joan (aka Endureth of Stephen aka Silas) walked in to address the class. Sarah Ireland and other “teen shepherds” were also in attendance.
Australian Jeremy asked for those involved in any way, regardless of how minor to confess by raising their hand. The impression was that their honesty (about this ridiculously trivial matter) would be honoured. A few boys raised their hands, and the question was asked again, finally a number of boys (approx 8) raised their hands. Australian Jeremy then announced that each one would have a pleasant date with the “Bread Board”.
The oldest boy spanked, in a manner consistent with unjustifiable physical abuse (not that any physical abuse is) that day, I believe was 17. - And that was for teasing a fish.
I’m surprised we didn’t all start a revolt then and there and meet out a bit of due justice of our own. – But I’m forgetting, the rest of us teens sat there thinking those who got spanked actually “deserved” it!
Funny though, incidents like this one and many more have still not been enough to make some then teens leave TF. Just look at Jonathan : http://www.familycare.org/network/p30.htm.
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| | From Dr.4_Shure
Thursday, September 09, 2004, 21:28
(Agree/Disagree?)
We named him (The fish) ELIKEIM for the words "you like him?"!
Weird memories of waking up to stinky dead fleah of some God damn cow that just got run over by a Tuk Tuk, and chemicals blowing in for us to breath in while screaming at the top of our lungs during "Inspiration time." Look over on the other side of the fence, we had the states Garbage dumpsite which took them over a year to cover with dirt.
Located in the middle of a rehab center of the red cross, where as Berg couldn't give a fuck as it was his dream place.
Breaking our backs over a Volley ball court till mid-night, shovelling and barroling loads of clay, so we could be in time for a visit by "David Milikan" who ended up working against TF anyways. Stupid freaks!
During VIP visits the kids could quote long names of places that they've never been to and barely remember what day it was in thier own language, our VIP bell boys were two men with handicaped arms.
Looking at some situations now that you'd never dare question then, it was really weird.
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| | From Dr.4_Shure
Thursday, September 09, 2004, 20:57
(Agree/Disagree?)
Oh! I remember that day clearly! It was my 3rd day of arriving at the " TC", I was only just 11, and had joined a few weeks late, Night _ raver was the eldest in my room of five, I was younger than most the rest cause this class was all 13 and up other than JP, Mic.I, David, and a few others. I was shitting my pants on that day. and when we were all asked to write down the names of anyone we saw doing such things to a Guppy Monster Fish, I wrote of how I felt guilty for even going near to that little fish bowl on the teacher's desk. If iI recall correctly John Newman aka Ebed was envolved, were'nt there three bater's giving the board on that day, 10 of you guys lined up to be exact and one didn't get it, as far as Johnathan I think it was on his round of beating the board cracked and split so he had to stand there waiting for them to tie it back together. DAMN and the rest of us was having desperate "prayer" for you folks. The shepherds would come in two by tow and lecture away I think the meeting started around at 8 in the morning and went on till the afternoon, from the "Main lounge" to verbalize it to the whole "TC" and then we were march over to the Teen lounge for the selection of culprits. I remember Tomy PI trying to hug everyone while writting their confession that everythngg was gonna be alright, but the bastard was another child molestor himself and then as of present dumps his wife with five of in the mid-east somewhere...so much for one of our "role-model shepherds".(reply to this comment) |
| | From Nancy
Monday, January 19, 2004, 10:16
(Agree/Disagree?)
This is sickening!!! These people are ill, mentally ill. I, honestly, think we should have a section on this website for such idiotic incidents of abuse in the Family. We should try to account each incident in detail like this. Although it may be difficult, it exposes that abusive cult for what it is. I love how you actually name names. That should be done more often.
If Tim adds a section, maybe call it abuse of the rediculous, or whatever, (I'm sure, the more wittier on this site can come up with something appropriate), then I'll happily recount some of the tales I recall from Monterrey and Gaudalajara. For example, I remember they had a little girl, about 14 or 15 on the "Bad Apple" work team, who had Turner's Syndrome. The poor child was not allowed to take any medication for her condition. My God!!! Instead, they made the little group, of five, line up in height order. She was the smallest due to her condition, maybe four eleven at the most. Then the tallest, a Canadian guy, was about six three or something. It really was absurd. They'd march them around the grounds from dawn to dusk, while fat cows like Rose Salavaar, swam in the pool and had little girls wait on her and bring her food or she screwed whatever single man was available in the toddler room. I remember walking in one night on them in a black-out. They were making so much noise that they woke the little 1-2 year olds. Sick!!! Really sick!!! Women like that weren't good for anything except popping out more kids to serve them. So sad!(reply to this comment) |
| | From TCer
Monday, January 19, 2004, 08:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't know, I don't think it's that we thought they deserved it; I know I never did. Teens got spanked for the most ridiculously little things. But you were also scared to death to even think an opposing thought, for fear someone might even hear that and report you. The only safe place to be as a teen at the TC was in some shepherds favor, so all the teens did whatever they could to get into that place, most popular manouver being reporting on your fellow teen. That always got you in the "good" teen status, even if breifly. So even if everyone thought "revolt", you would have no idea who to say it too, for fear they might decide to report on you. Even the ones you thought your friends could decide, because they were on the hot seat, to turn you in. So the farthest you could get with any contrary opinions was maybe your very best friend. And since 2 people don't make a "revolt', we would just suffer through another day of their torture. I know that we all thought it was over the top, but the thing that Ascro was best at (besides inventing a freaking "program" for everything) was fear. I can never remember a moment that I did not live in fear. Fear that I had said something wrong on my OHR, that I had said the wrong thing to the wrong person, that I wasn't smiling enough that day, fear that I was dressing wrong, fear that someone had seen that I covered up my privates when the opposite sex walked in the door and I would get reported on, fear of getting called up for heartsharing (the TC had it's own, very special version, of heartsharing) or ESP or some other public exposure meeting. Every day I woke up and wondered if today I would be called in by the shepherds, get raked over the coals, or lose my job and get sent back to Staff, to help clean those 40 bathrooms every day. I remember this story of the fish. It is not exaggerated in the least. It's the sort of stuff that just messes with your head as a teen. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From cassy
Friday, September 10, 2004, 10:15
(Agree/Disagree?)
Excuse me, my daugther goes to school and doesn't have ANY of the above or other fears or mistreatment. She has decent teachers and actually enjoys her school, friends and life. Anything else is not normal and should be dealt with. Don't you dare harden yourself to the suffering of kids just because it's widespread. That comment was out of order.(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From moon beam
Thursday, March 04, 2004, 12:56
(Agree/Disagree?)
God the fear! A particular psychological study at stanford uni, carried out in 71, brought up the question 'can a bad situation win over good people?' And what makes a person overcome... unanswerable The Stanford prison experiment found student volunteers and gave them the role of either prison guard or prisoner, placed them in a real prison situation and found both sets reverting to 'type'. It should have gone on for 2 weeks but after 3 days it was clearly damaging to all concerned and new ethical guidlines were put in place.
The outcome was that the prisoners started revolting against authority which in turn heightened the 'guards sense of power over the situation and one in particular found it too tempting and really laid it on thick with punishments and humiliation. The other 'guards' who did not join in themselves did nothing to curb or reprimand the 'bad apple', nor help the prisoners in secret. One prisoner went on a fast and tried to start a revolution but instead of his fellow inmates joining him, they opted to 'save' themselves and betrayed their 'Hero', playing into the divide and conquer senario. Apart from a few 'good' people, people can and more often than not do bad things (especially when they are sure of deferring personal responsibility to a higher authority) This study and many simular ones on conformity and obeidience within social structure was paramount in understanding the atrocities carried out by the Nazi's. Our behaviour is heavily structered by our social roles and expectations. It takes a strong branch to not bend with the wind!(reply to this comment) |
| | | | | From mikio
Sunday, January 18, 2004, 18:40
(Agree/Disagree?)
I would say Sara Ireland was somewhat involved in the "boardings", but yeah, not as much as the rest. So both Benz and U were there? I was in the New Models, but not in the MAPs, there were only a total of 10 people in the MAPs as far as I know...are you Timmy? I guess you could also be either Danny, John Paul, or Joan, but noone else was in both the New Models and the MAPs as far as I know (well, everybody was in the "group MAPs" program, were we ever not in a program in ASS-CRO?) Nyways, email, I'm sure I know you.(reply to this comment) |
| | From Dr.4_Shure
Thursday, September 09, 2004, 21:04
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm sure i know you as well....I was there, there were two sets of the MAP program the first one was, in rememberance of Danny, Jonathan B, Timmy, Dave worder, and Simion. The second batch had Ten, I can't remmber all those. but yes John pall, Mic .I, Joan. (reply to this comment) |
| | | | | | | | From dumbfounded
Saturday, January 17, 2004, 15:27
(Agree/Disagree?)
It never ceases to amaze me the capacity we have learned in the Family for compartmentalizing. If she was in charge, as roughneck knows, she so *is* responsible for what went on! Remember, the treatment of us growing children was something the Family as a whole was told to throw themselves into, to "train" us. Letters were written on the subject and everything. Some of the most evil people in the world get others to implement the dirty work for them. Manson, for example, personally carried out none of the killings for which he was sentenced to death, and Hitler probably never personally shoved a person into a gas chamber.
Certain realities of the world are reflected in notions such as agency, whereby the principal is not excused from something just because they told an agent to do it. Then you have conspiracy, a nod to the exponential capacity that is added when more than one person act in concert. One preparatory step gets you on the hook there. You don't even need to carry out the entire plan to be held guilty! The stunning reality of conspiracy and the harm it can wreak when successfully carried out is why the Family got away with what they did to their children for so long. And our splittin off and compartmentalizing, as their victims, goes a long way toward keeping it that way.
I do understand this type of comments though and where you're coming from, oddapodda. In my time on this site I have come to realize that some of my cruelest jailers may have been seen as the nice one somebody, and people who may have in a given opportunity shown me some humanity were torturers of others.
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| | From roughneck
Saturday, January 17, 2004, 12:09
(Agree/Disagree?)
I don't remember one single incident where she was openly involved in any of that or had anything to do with the victor programme.
Aside from being in charge, that is ;-) IIRC, Tiago, Jeremy and Sarah were the long-time TC "senior" TW-ers; Dawn, Cephas and Joan (Stephen was the "wild rover" CRO whom everyone else in ASCRO walked on eggshells around) were the sometimes resident CROs.. while the MAPS and NMs may not have been Sarah's ideas, she was responsible for their implementation as a TW-er. Ergo, she *was* involved. But you're right: for a TC "shepherd" she was nicer than most. Jeremy was a psycho though.. everyone walked on eggshells 'round him lest he should call down the wrath of Jeremy on you. I'm sure you remember. ;)
I do seem to remember Sarah sitting up front with Tiago in many ESP (Exposing Sins Publicly, for the rest of you non-TCers) sessions. Does this count as "cruel and unusual punishment"? For a 14 year old, I'd say yes.
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| | | | | | | | | | | from Joe H
Friday, January 16, 2004 - 19:26
(Agree/Disagree?)
Just a thought - if I was given to conspiracy theories and generally paranoid thinking, I'd imagine that the pictures of him were removed from the FCF website thanks entirely to your exposing him on ours. In this light, having someone post his current location will only serve to put our dear friend Victor into "flee" mode. In short, get some better informants if you're so obsessed with keeping tabs on this guy.
(Being as I'm more inclined to choose the most obvious explanation, however boring, I'll insist that the reason the link to those photos no longer works is because Family web-masters are wankers - and I use that word both figuratively and literally, in that the LJ Revolution has made wankers of all of them)
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| From nope
Friday, January 16, 2004, 19:48
(Agree/Disagree?)
I heartily disagree. I think he was taken off the site because it looks bad for children's charities to be ren by paedophiles. Especially if you're a shill for a group that abandons its children to keep the faith. Children who grew up in need of just as much charity as the kids FCF decides need help vs. the ones they brought into the world.(reply to this comment) |
| | from that's great
Friday, January 16, 2004 - 19:17
(Agree/Disagree?)
I'm sure he just "retired". LOL. Who's next?
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